Somalis and E-Y17859
Awale 7/29/2017 6:12:00 AM

Somalis and E-Y17859

A while back, probably about a year ago now, I noticed Yfull added a subclade found among Somalis into their tree. This was a subclade of E-V32 dubbed E-Y17859, itself a subclade of E-Z813. I quickly noticed that E-17859 was also shared with an Egyptian sample and more recently than I was expecting (~3,500 TMRCA with a formation date of ~4,500). I thought this was interesting but, at the time, possibly just one random sample and it was best to just wait for future results and inquiries but just recently I was alerted to the fact that the E-V32 Somalis at FTDNA all belong to E-Y17859, with 5 out of 8 being pegged as belonging to E-Y17859's E-Y18355 subclade like the sample at Yfull. It might very well be that this is a very common E-V32 subclade in Greater-Somalia; in fact, it may very well be that almost all of us belong to this specific subclade.

So, this is quite interesting... Especially given the rather recent TMRCA with an Egyptian sample which could be owed to Bejas. Just thought I'd share this for some who may not be aware and feel free to discuss what this could mean overall.
Agamemnon 7/29/2017 6:23:00 AM

I don't find this all that surprising, as most Somalis are bound to be descended from Cushitic/Erythræic-speaking nomadic pastoralists, and that implies a lot of founder effects. In fact the high E-V32 frequency in Greater Somalia, well over 70% IIRC, suggests just that.
Awale 7/29/2017 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I don't find this all that surprising, as most Somalis are bound to be descended from Cushitic/Erythræic-speaking nomadic pastoralists, and that implies a lot of founder effects. In fact the high E-V32 frequency in Greater Somalia, well over 70% IIRC, suggests just that.

I've ordered my own kit. I want to see if I'll end up under this subclade too (I probably will) which will be cool because I'm paternally from around northeastern Sanaag and Bari while one of the samples at FTDNA, going by his name, is from the Haud area. If we both share this subclade, that's a decent-ish geographic spread to go by as proof of it being common all around. I won't out them but I think I know at least one other E-V32 hombre on that list and he's from the around Woqooyi so that'll definitely give us some idea regarding the subclade's spread.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

In fact the high E-V32 frequency in Greater Somalia, well over 70% IIRC, suggests just that.

I'd personally put it at like 60-70% overall but in some areas E-V32 goes over 80% for sure. One other interesting thing to point out, while we're at this, is that some Luhya samples carry E-Z809, a distinct subclade of E-Z813 from E-Y17859 with a TMRCA between the two pegged at ~4,500ybp. I imagine E-Z809 was probably spread to areas south of the horn by South-Erythraeic speaking pastoralists so that's pretty interesting.

If Somalis really are mostly E-Y17859 then it's possible we founder-effected like crazy for one particular E-V32 subclade found among several our earlier Proto-Agaw-East-South Erythraeic speaking ancestors, or at least our East-South Erythraeic speaking ancestors, carried if E-Z809 in Luhyas is anything to go on. Founder-effects indeed make sense with our ancestors' historical lifestyle and patrilineal way of doing things.
Agamemnon 7/29/2017 6:57:00 AM

The presence of E-V32 in Nilo-Saharan speaking peoples in what is now Darfur (namely the Fur and Masalit) suggests that there might have been an extinct West Erythræic branch spoken in the eastern part of the Sahara prior to the arrival of Nilo-Saharan speakers in the region. We might want to focus on the branches of E-V32 these guys carry as well, it could validate (or invalidate) this scenario.
Awale 7/29/2017 7:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The presence of E-V32 in Nilo-Saharan speaking peoples in what is now Darfur (namely the Fur and Masalit) suggests that there might have been an extinct West Erythræic branch spoken in the eastern part of the Sahara prior to the arrival of Nilo-Saharan speakers in the region. We might want to focus on the branches of E-V32 these guys carry as well, it could validate (or invalidate) this scenario.

Damn good point. I figured it was possible their E-V32 was owed to Nilo-Saharan speakers rather than South-Erythraeic speakers indeed. South-Erythraeaic speakers seem more like E-M293 was overwhelmingly their thing when dealing with E-M35 subclades. But it's possible some carried E-V32 like how they clearly carried T-M70.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

suggests that there might have been an extinct West Erythræic branch spoken in the eastern part of the Sahara prior to the arrival of Nilo-Saharan speakers in the region

Have you ever seen linguistic evidence for this? Something non-North Erythraeic but clearly Erythraeic in certain Nilo-Saharan languages in that general area?
Agamemnon 7/29/2017 7:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

Damn good point. I figured it was possible their E-V32 was owed to Nilo-Saharan speakers rather than South-Erythraeic speakers indeed. South-Erythraeaic speakers seem more like E-M293 was overwhelmingly their thing when dealing with E-M35 subclades. But it's possible some carried E-V32 like how they clearly carried T-M70.

Possible, but rather unlikely at this stage considering the strong correlation between the branches of AA and the branches of E-M35.

Have you ever seen linguistic evidence for this? Something non-North Erythraeic but clearly Erythraeic in certain Nilo-Saharan languages in that general area?

Unfortunately, no. While some like to point out similarities between AA and Nilo-Saharan (mostly dubious IMO), the latter is a notoriously understudied language family (and many linguists are not convinced that it is an actual language family in the first place). One immediately wonders about Meroitic, but the best work I've seen on this language so far suggests that it was an East Sudanic language. Do keep in mind though that we know of at least one "mixed language" with Bantu morphology and a largely Cushitic vocabulary, so it's quite likely Cushitic/Erythræic languages were previously spoken a far larger area by the past, thus increasing the odds in favour of the existence of extinct branches.
Awale 7/29/2017 7:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Do keep in mind though that we know of at least one "mixed language" with Bantu morphology and a largely Cushitic vocabulary, so it's quite likely Cushitic/Erythræic languages were previously spoken a far larger area by the past, thus increasing the odds in favour of the existence of extinct branches.

What's odd about Mbugu is that some seem to suggest it's Erythraeic vocabulary is quite East-Erythraeic in nature. Always surprised me that East-Erythraeic speakers may have migrated down to Tanzania. What do you think of these arguments, though:

Show Spoiler

?

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Possible, but rather unlikely at this stage considering the strong correlation between the branches of AA and the branches of E-M35.

I suppose so. It's also worth noting that the various Luhyas listed at Yfull also show E-M293 which is more obviously owed to South-Erythraeic speakers.
Agamemnon 7/29/2017 7:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

What's odd about Mbugu is that some seem to suggest it's Erythraeic vocabulary is quite East-Erythraeic in nature. Always surprised me that East-Erythraeic speakers may have migrated down to Tanzania. What do you think of these arguments, though:

Show Spoiler

?

These arguments are quite sound actually. Even though South Cushitic would make more sense at first glance, there does seem to be an East Erythræic link here.
Awale 7/29/2017 7:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

These arguments are quite sound actually. Even though South Cushitic would make more sense at first glance, there does seem to be an East Erythræic link here.

Ah, very good to hear this from a linguist like yourself. But on another note, what do you think of the TMRCA with that Egyptian? I recall you noting a long time ago that Yfull lowers the TMRCAs compared to what they might really be (i.e. by 1kya or so)? I had another party claim the opposite recently but yeah, it's intriguing nevertheless. Would be super interesting if they're descended from a Beja. It's somewhat possible this is coincidentally someone descended from a paternal Somali ancestor, though. Some chap who went running to al-Azhar 100 years ago or something, lol... But I sincerely doubt that given the ~3.5kya split from E-Y18355 which 5 of those 8 FTDNA Somalis appear under.
Agamemnon 7/29/2017 8:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

Ah, very good to hear this from a linguist like yourself. But on another note, what do you think of the TMRCA with that Egyptian? I recall you noting a long time ago that Yfull lowers the TMRCAs compared to what they might really be (i.e. by 1kya or so)? I had another party claim the opposite recently but yeah, it's intriguing nevertheless. Would be super interesting if they're descended from a Beja. It's somewhat possible this is coincidentally someone descended from a paternal Somali ancestor, though. Some chap who went running to al-Azhar 100 years ago or something, lol... But I sincerely doubt that given the ~3.5kya split from E-Y18355 which 5 of those 8 FTDNA Somalis appear under.

I think the issue with YFull underestimating the TMRCA estimates has largely been solved (still an issue when dealing with entire haplogroups though), there's no reason to doubt the estimate for Y17859 considering the time span we're dealing with here. One issue though is that some branches are probably included into Y17859, that's the case with my branch of J1 for example (check the +19 SNPs: ZS227 and Z18271 are still placed on the same level, while in fact they're different branches the former being the latter's "ancestor"). I strongly suspect this is what we're going to see here as well, and so intermediary branches are being missed in the process.

That being said, he could be descended from a Beja, that's actually one of the best explanations so far.
drobbah 8/1/2017 3:58:00 AM

My brother had already tested with FTDNA years ago but we only got a 12 marker test with a generic E-L117 (didn't test downstream).We shared the exact same markers with fellow Habar Awal (from the larger Isaaq confederation) including Cisse Muuse @Almagest who messaged me on this forum (he was one marker off which is reasonable since according to Somali "genealogy" aka abtirsi we share an ancestor atleast 20 generations ago).

I will definitely order a downstream SNP test and will post my result here.Untill now I had no clue there were subclades of V32 lol
Angoliga 8/2/2017 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Unfortunately, no. While some like to point out similarities between AA and Nilo-Saharan (mostly dubious IMO), the latter is a notoriously understudied language family (and many linguists are not convinced that it is an actual language family in the first place). One immediately wonders about Meroitic, but the best work I've seen on this language so far suggests that it was an East Sudanic language. Do keep in mind though that we know of at least one "mixed language" with Bantu morphology and a largely Cushitic vocabulary, so it's quite likely Cushitic/Erythræic languages were previously spoken a far larger area by the past, thus increasing the odds in favour of the existence of extinct branches.

Are you truly a linguist by profession? I recall someone mentioning something to that effect on another thread -- if so, that's really cool!

I don't have any in-depth knowledge in the field but found this topic interesting. I have many first cousins from tribes in the West/immediate South-West of Uganda (Banyankole, Bahimia, Banyoro) who have closer cultural ties to certain Rwandan ethnic groups (Batutsi, Banyarwanda). Prior to Bantu migrations, I wonder if these western Ugandan tribes might have retained any linguistic evidence of extinct Erythraeic branches.

I come from an inter-tribal "Niltoic" family, my maternal language is Kakwa (Bari), a language considered Eastern-Sudanic and my paternal language is Aringa (Lugbara), classified as Central-Sudanic. Subjectively, I can say the latter is heavily Bantu influenced (morphologically at least), so much so, many consider my surname to be typically of Bantu origin. Conversely, my maternal tongue isn't as "melodic", and is considered more tonally complex with more tenses to make things even more difficult.

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

The presence of E-V32 in Nilo-Saharan speaking peoples in what is now Darfur (namely the Fur and Masalit) suggests that there might have been an extinct West Erythræic branch spoken in the eastern part of the Sahara prior to the arrival of Nilo-Saharan speakers in the region. We might want to focus on the branches of E-V32 these guys carry as well, it could validate (or invalidate) this scenario.

Indeed, it really would be very revealing to see E-V32 formation/TMRCA dates between the Fur/Masalit and neighbouring Erythræic speakers; the Beja would be first on my list. This scenario reminds me of R-V88 in Chadic speakers (Mada, Ouldeme); populations with minor eurasian atDNA acompanied with substantially high Y-DNA found in neighbouring Erythræic speaking populations:

"The proposed migration of proto-Chadic Afroasiatic speakers ~7000 years ago from the central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin may have resulted in a Nilo-Saharan to Afroasiatic language shift among Chadic speakers (37). However, our data suggest that this shift was not accompanied by large amounts of Afroasiatic gene flow. "(Tishkoff, 2010)

Would this suggestion be interpreted as Nilotic hegemony along the Sahel followed by introgression of Y-DNA from certain Saharan Erythræic pastoralist populations? I wonder if the same would apply for the Masalit/Fur. If so, wouldn't one expect the Masalit/Fur to have remained Erythræic speaking. Judging at first glance, I automatically assumed their lack of eurasian autosmal DNA combined with abnormally high "Erythræic-like" Y-DNA meant a male dominant Erythræic expansion into native Nilotic populations. It should be interesting to see what more analysis of E-V32 reveals.
Passa 8/2/2017 8:42:00 PM

Two Somalis (kits N86808 and 364958 in the E-M35 Phylogeny Project) have bene found to be Z808+. Z808 is a synonym of Z809, which is carried by Kenyan Luhyas according to YFull's tree. The presence of both Z809 and Y17859 among Somalis confirms the essentially Lowland East Cushitic nature of E-Z813. Z813 (formation age: 5300 ybp) most likely originated in south-central Ethiopia and its carriers spread the Lowland East Cushitic languages (Proto-LEC is estimated at 5500 ybp). More V32 data especially from Ethiopia would help to extend the linguistic-genetic parallelism between V32 sub-clades and Cushitic languages (Proto-East-South-Cushitic looks especially promising, as Y25511, for now found among Nyanza Kenyans and Kuwaitis, formed just slightly after this linguistic branch began to bifurcate).
Omaar 8/7/2017 3:55:00 PM

I'm from Mogadischu and this is my results : Z809-, Z808-, CTS3507-, L648-, Y17859+. My next step is to test Y18355?

The tree of E-Y17859 according to FTDNA

E-Y17859 formed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 3500 ybp

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far one saudi is +

.BY8075
Almagest 8/10/2017 9:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Passa

Two Somalis (kits N86808 and 364958 in the E-M35 Phylogeny Project) have bene found to be Z808+. Z808 is a synonym of Z809, which is carried by Kenyan Luhyas according to YFull's tree. The presence of both Z809 and Y17859 among Somalis confirms the essentially Lowland East Cushitic nature of E-Z813. Z813 (formation age: 5300 ybp) most likely originated in south-central Ethiopia and its carriers spread the Lowland East Cushitic languages (Proto-LEC is estimated at 5500 ybp). More V32 data especially from Ethiopia would help to extend the linguistic-genetic parallelism between V32 sub-clades and Cushitic languages (Proto-East-South-Cushitic looks especially promising, as Y25511, for now found among Nyanza Kenyans and Kuwaitis, formed just slightly after this linguistic branch began to bifurcate).

N86808 and 364958 haven't been SNP tested for Z809. The E-M35 phylogeny project is going off STR's. Neither did N86808 convert from a genographic test. Something is wrong with the e-m35 site.
drobbah 9/17/2017 11:49:00 AM

Just ordered Big Y from FTDNA....Will post my results once I receive it

Judging from the Somali DNA project I (and the other Habar Awal dudes) should be atleast Y17859
Almagest 9/17/2017 8:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just ordered Big Y from FTDNA....Will post my results once I receive it

Judging from the Somali DNA project I (and the other Habar Awal dudes) should be atleast Y17859

Should've told me. I ordered it a few weeks ago too, we can finally put this clan stuff to the ultimate test.
Kali 9/19/2017 5:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just ordered Big Y from FTDNA....Will post my results once I receive it

Judging from the Somali DNA project I (and the other Habar Awal dudes) should be atleast Y17859

Thinking about ordering it as well, how much does it cost and how do you order it? My family is T according to 23andme.
drobbah 9/21/2017 12:26:00 AM

Found a Habar Jeclo dude who is Z813 and Y17859
Almagest 9/23/2017 8:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Found a Habar Jeclo dude who is Z813 and Y17859-

[Bad Link]Do you know if he has tested elsewhere? It shows doesn't show Y17859 in the SNP section.

But Egyptian M9165 is a true Z813* being negative for Z809 and Y17859. [Bad Link]
Omaar 1/28/2018 1:26:00 AM

E-Y17859 tree

E-Y17859 egyptian +

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far one saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

A man, who is from my tribe is E-Z808+, while i am E-Z808- ???? E-Z808 and E-Y17859 are siblings. So
Almagest 1/30/2018 5:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

E-Y17859 tree

E-Y17859 egyptian +

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far one saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

A man, who is from my tribe is E-Z808+, while i am E-Z808- ???? E-Z808 and E-Y17859 are siblings. So

I am sure Z808 is the same as Z809. You are Z808-. Which member is z808+?

And the Egyptian is positive for two extra SNP compared to the BY8075 Saudi. Possible further split
Almagest 2/6/2018 2:32:00 AM

E-Y17859

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far two saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

After a very long wait, I am confirmed E-BY8048*. BY8051=Y18355 on YFull.
drobbah 2/6/2018 2:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

E-Y17859

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far two saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

After a very long wait, I am confirmed E-BY8048*. BY8051=Y18355 on YFull.

Great news! This is a great step forward for not only us Habar Awals but also the rest of the Somali ethnic group
Omaar 2/7/2018 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

E-Y17859

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far two saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

After a very long wait, I am confirmed E-BY8048*. BY8051=Y18355 on YFull.

very interesting indeed.
Horner 2/7/2018 10:45:00 AM

Nice to finally see some clarity on E-v32, congratulations. I wonder if the Eritreans & Ethiopians are of the same subclad and if so did this travel south along the eastern Red Sea or up the Nile (then southeast to the lowlands) since the Borana Oromo also carry high frequencies?
Deftextra 3/7/2018 11:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

E-Y17859

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far two saudi is +

.BY8075 so far one saudian+and an egyptian+

After a very long wait, I am confirmed E-BY8048*. BY8051=Y18355 on YFull.

I did the 37-STR test a while back. Haven't checked my matches in a long time, but I noticed today that I match two (12 markers) who both tested Big-y and they are both +BY8100. Does this say anything meaningful about the branch I could belong to? In the E-m35 project, two people who are classified under Z808 are also E-Y17859.
Omaar 3/8/2018 4:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

I did the 37-STR test a while back. Haven't checked my matches in a long time, but I noticed today that I match two (12 markers) who both tested Big-y and they are both +BY8100. Does this say anything meaningful about the branch I could belong to? In the E-m35 project, two people who are classified under Z808 are also E-Y17859.

No! if you are Z808+, you are definitely E-Y17859-.
Deftextra 3/8/2018 6:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

No! if you are Z808+, you are definitely E-Y17859-.

That is strange? There are people who are E-Y17859+ under the Z808 prediction in the project. I guess there is still a possibility I could be z808- and E-Y17859+ since I only did the STR test.
Almagest 3/25/2018 2:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

I did the 37-STR test a while back. Haven't checked my matches in a long time, but I noticed today that I match two (12 markers) who both tested Big-y and they are both +BY8100. Does this say anything meaningful about the branch I could belong to? In the E-m35 project, two people who are classified under Z808 are also E-Y17859.

Depends on if you match them past 12 markers. BY8100 is a possibility in your case but there are participants with GD of 1 to Y17750 branch members of V32 at 12 markers despite being Y17859+ if i remember correctly. So wouldn't put too much emphasis on 12 markers at anything as young as BY8100.
Almagest 3/30/2018 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

Depends on if you match them past 12 markers. BY8100 is a possibility in your case but there are participants with GD of 1 to Y17750 branch members of V32 at 12 markers despite being Y17859+ if i remember correctly. So wouldn't put too much emphasis on 12 markers at anything as old as BY8100.

My mistake
Almagest 5/8/2018 1:45:00 AM

https://www.yfull.com/arch-7.03/tree/E-Y15945/
Omaar 5/8/2018 7:02:00 PM

Great! You are E-Y18629+. Are you that saudi?
Almagest 5/9/2018 11:59:00 PM

I will upload my results some time in the summer. I think the Saudi is the BY8100 one.i know the FTDNA V32 tree has changed recently but haven’t looked at it properly yet. But nice to see some TMRCA’s that are relevant. Sudan and Yemen/Saudi TMRCA 1900ybp. Maybe the V32 migration into the Middle East came in stages? Some Middle Easterners are far removed from him.
drobbah 5/26/2018 1:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

I will upload my results some time in the summer. I think the Saudi is the BY8100 one.i know the FTDNA V32 tree has changed recently but haven’t looked at it properly yet. But nice to see some TMRCA’s that are relevant. Sudan and Yemen/Saudi TMRCA 1900ybp. Maybe the V32 migration into the Middle East came in stages? Some Middle Easterners are far removed from him.

It looks like the Arabians (Saudis/Kuwaitis etc) are the ones with the most diversity in terms of V32.Why is that? Isn't Egypt or Red Sea Sudan supposed to have that title considering V32 probably originated there?
Almagest 5/27/2018 10:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It looks like the Arabians (Saudis/Kuwaitis etc) are the ones with the most diversity in terms of V32.Why is that? Isn't Egypt or Red Sea Sudan supposed to have that title considering V32 probably originated there?

I think Egypt is still very well represented in all subclades despite the low sample number compared to the others. If we split it into the current three major subclades;

Country BY8125 Z813 Y28701

Egypt.........1.......2........2

Sudan........0.......1........2

Saudi.........1.......3........6

Kuwait.......2........0........2

This is using YFull (I left out TMRCA below 400) and FTDNA. I am getting back to updating a spreadsheet I keep.
NetNomad 5/29/2018 2:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It looks like the Arabians (Saudis/Kuwaitis etc) are the ones with the most diversity in terms of V32.Why is that? Isn't Egypt or Red Sea Sudan supposed to have that title considering V32 probably originated there?

I think there is a bias.. more people from the Gulf test themselves because they have more money and resources.. while in East Africa very few test.
NetNomad 6/15/2018 1:18:00 AM

Almagest, Awale, drobbah, Omaar et al.

This project has Kenyan Somali genomes at 30x in bam format:

BAD LINK [simonsfoundation.org/sim...rsity-project/]

Can we get a hold of it and perhaps analyze their Y files for any patterns.

Edit: found that it's available here: http://reichdata.hms.harvard.edu/pub/datasets/sgdp/
Almagest 6/17/2018 5:12:00 PM

They are female https://docs.cancergenomicscloud.org/docs/sgdp-data

You can find Simons samples at yfull. https://www.yfull.com/samples-from-paper/3/
NetNomad 6/17/2018 10:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

They are female https://docs.cancergenomicscloud.org/docs/sgdp-data

You can find Simons samples at yfull. https://www.yfull.com/samples-from-paper/3/

Damn!

Thanks for the clarification.
Omaar 6/20/2018 2:25:00 PM

There is only one E-V32. He is a Kenyan and his haplogroup is E-Y37091. I wonder why it is found in Kenya but not in Somalia!??, though E-Z809 was found in both countries!
NetNomad 6/20/2018 6:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

There is only one E-V32. He is a Kenyan and his haplogroup is E-Y37091. I wonder why it is found in Kenya but not in Somalia!??, though E-Z809 was found in both countries!

Kenya used to be mainly Cushitic a few thousand years ago (i.e. Luxmanda type of people). They don't exist nowadays, but remnants of their existence is found in the genetics of non-Cushitic Kenyan groups.

I think Somali E-M78 diversity is very weak and probably restricted to E-Y17859.

Ethiopia despite having a lower frequency will have more diversity of that clade.
Ra7all101 6/23/2018 6:20:00 AM

I am the owner of this sample. E-Y18629
Omaar 6/23/2018 12:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ra7all101

I am the owner of this sample. E-Y18629

In FTDNA E-Y18626 is equivalent of E-Y18637. In FTDNA tree E-Y18637 is downstream of E-BY8048 and upstream of E-BY8085.

We have E-BY8048 somali and E-BY8085 somali!!!very interesting.

What is your background?
drobbah 6/23/2018 3:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ra7all101

I am the owner of this sample. E-Y18629

Do you have any known recent horner ancestry or are you a regular Saudi of tribal background?
Ra7all101 6/23/2018 9:14:00 PM

Yes, I am a Saudi father and I have no relatives except in the Arabian Peninsula

There are samples on the same mutation in Saudi Arabia and I hid the reason I am a company developed African mutation
NetNomad 6/27/2018 11:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ra7all101

Yes, I am a Saudi father and I have no relatives except in the Arabian Peninsula

There are samples on the same mutation in Saudi Arabia and I hid the reason I am a company developed African mutation

Do you have any tribal associations? Saudis have paternal tribes right?
NetNomad 6/28/2018 7:47:00 AM

I think his distant ancestor was a Somali speaker, it's too close.
Ra7all101 6/29/2018 6:46:00 AM

I did not understand what I meant but there are Arab tribes on this mutation and I am from them. They are very large
Ra7all101 6/29/2018 6:50:00 AM

The tribes of Bani Tamim, Dawasir, Wars, Alasasneh, Matar and many others. I am also the tribe of Bani Tamim
drobbah 6/29/2018 7:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ra7all101

The tribes of Bani Tamim, Dawasir, Wars, Alasasneh, Matar and many others. I am also the tribe of Bani Tamim

I have seen many Bani Tamim kits on familytreedna that had confirmed V32 of various branches.It seems you are a mixed bag in terms of what kind of V32 you guys carry which probably means its ancient and not some recent horner ancestor.
NetNomad 7/1/2018 12:32:00 AM

Saudis are really diverse. They have carriers in almost every haplogroup (just see YFull).. Could pilgrims be the cause of this? Besides slavery and merchant aspect.
Omaar 7/10/2018 12:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I think his distant ancestor was a Somali speaker, it's too close.

I am not sure about that but there is one guy from Somalia (Togdheer), who is E-Y18629*.
NetNomad 7/14/2018 3:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I am not sure about that but there is one guy from Somalia (Togdheer), who is E-Y18629*.

Yeah, just noticed, it's on yfull:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y17859/
Almagest 7/14/2018 11:50:00 PM

I uploaded to YFull and as expected Y18629*. Me and the Saudi should create two seperate sub clades under Y18629, will be interesting to see the TMRCA on that.

I am Ciise Muuse from Hawd/Togdheer border. If you know Ciise Muuse, they are coastal (or very close) so no idea why I'm so far south but results show I'm related to other Habr awal, so all good, for now.
NetNomad 7/15/2018 4:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

I uploaded to YFull and as expected Y18629*. Me and the Saudi should create two seperate sub clades under Y18629, will be interesting to see the TMRCA on that.

I am Ciise Muuse from Hawd/Togdheer border. If you know Ciise Muuse, they are coastal (or very close) so no idea why I'm so far south but results show I'm related to other Habr awal, so all good, for now.

Do you have any SNPs downstream of E-Y18629? Or did Big-Y fail to find any?

I wonder how sub-clades form on yfull, still a newb on this issue.
drobbah 7/15/2018 7:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

I uploaded to YFull and as expected Y18629*. Me and the Saudi should create two seperate sub clades under Y18629, will be interesting to see the TMRCA on that.

I am Ciise Muuse from Hawd/Togdheer border. If you know Ciise Muuse, they are coastal (or very close) so no idea why I'm so far south but results show I'm related to other Habr awal, so all good, for now.

For those who understand somali history,nomadic culture and the clan dynamics that isn't surprising.In fact another Subeyr Awal clan called the Makahiil which is a small subclan of Sacad Muuse (when compared to the sons of Abokor) are found on the coast all the way to the Hawd.They are exclusively camel nomads and had a feirce rep for being crazy raiders despite their numbers.

Habar Awal are definently all related.All that is left is taking dna samples from our supposed ancestor tomb in Jidali,Sanaag for confirmation.
NetNomad 7/16/2018 4:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

For those who understand somali history,nomadic culture and the clan dynamics that isn't surprising.In fact another Subeyr Awal clan called the Makahiil which is a small subclan of Sacad Muuse (when compared to the sons of Abokor) are found on the coast all the way to the Hawd.They are exclusively camel nomads and had a feirce rep for being crazy raiders despite their numbers.

Habar Awal are definently all related.All that is left is taking dna samples from our supposed ancestor tomb in Jidali,Sanaag for confirmation.

What's the 'Habar Awal SNP'? Without that there's no proof of relationship.

I'm very skeptical of the Somali clan system.
Almagest 7/16/2018 3:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Do you have any SNPs downstream of E-Y18629? Or did Big-Y fail to find any?

I wonder how sub-clades form on yfull, still a newb on this issue.

FTDNA tree is slightly ahead of YFull and it shows a split. I should have a fair few currently private SNP’s considering Y18629 is still rather old.

Originally Posted by NetNomad

What's the 'Habar Awal SNP'? Without that there's no proof of relationship.

I'm very skeptical of the Somali clan system.

I think most somalis can be confident they are related on the Reer level which is 7-10 generations back for most.
drobbah 7/16/2018 3:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

What's the 'Habar Awal SNP'? Without that there's no proof of relationship.

I'm very skeptical of the Somali clan system.

It's not a co-incidence that Sacad Muuse from various branches share the same exact str results and the only other Cisse Muuse that came out publicly has only a genetic distance of 1.

Obviously we can't 100% confirm yet that all Habar Awal share a paternal ancestor untill every single branch of the clan (which is quite large) is tested but I'm pretty confident as a Jibriil Abokor from Arabsiyo I would get the same exact result as Almagest who is from Hawdka.
Omaar 7/18/2018 2:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

I uploaded to YFull and as expected Y18629*. Me and the Saudi should create two seperate sub clades under Y18629, will be interesting to see the TMRCA on that.

I am Ciise Muuse from Hawd/Togdheer border. If you know Ciise Muuse, they are coastal (or very close) so no idea why I'm so far south but results show I'm related to other Habr awal, so all good, for now.

Yes! You are E-Y18629*. The Saudi is E-Y18637, which is downstream of E-Y18629. It is plausible, that this clade E-Y18629*, migrated from The Erythraean Sea to Arabian peninsula.
lavrok 7/29/2018 5:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

Do you know if he has tested elsewhere? It shows doesn't show Y17859 in the SNP section.

But Egyptian M9165 is a true Z813* being negative for Z809 and Y17859. familytreedna.com/public/E3b?iframe=ysnp

Originally Posted by drobbah

Found a Habar Jeclo dude who is Z813 and Y17859-

familytreedna.com/public/E1b1arabia/default.aspx?section=yresults

I believe that is my result. I have also tested on 23andme and got a similar result.
Omaar 7/30/2018 10:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I believe that is my result. I have also tested on 23andme and got a similar result.

Are you Nubian or Bedouin?
lavrok 8/1/2018 8:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Are you Nubian or Bedouin?

I am Somali. What makes you think I was either?
Omaar 8/2/2018 9:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I am Somali. What makes you think I was either?

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Are you E-Z813*, ( without subclade).
Omaar 8/4/2018 7:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just ordered Big Y from FTDNA....Will post my results once I receive it

Judging from the Somali DNA project I (and the other Habar Awal dudes) should be atleast Y17859

Are you Still waiting for your results? how long will results take?. I too ordered Big Y-500 from FTDNA today!
lavrok 8/4/2018 8:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Are you E-Z813*, ( without subclade).

No worries. Yeah, it does not go further than E-Z813 for me.
NetNomad 8/4/2018 10:41:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Are you Still waiting for your results? how long will results take?. I too ordered Big Y-500 from FTDNA today!

What is your clan? Just curious..
Omaar 8/5/2018 4:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

What is your clan? Just curious..

Do you mean, to which confederation you belong? well, let us wait the results!

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I'm very skeptical of the Somali clan system.
Administrator 8/29/2018 7:29:00 PM

[ADMIN] Several posts relating to a recently banned member have been removed.
drobbah 9/9/2018 6:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I believe that is my result. I have also tested on 23andme and got a similar result.

Which subclan of Habar Jeclo do you belong too?

I have seen T1a Habar Jeclo (Xasan Cabdulle) aswell and Tol Jeclo which both belong to the Habar Habusheed branch of Isaaq.
NetNomad 9/10/2018 10:52:00 AM

So who is id:YF15261? A Somali or a Saudi?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y17859/
drobbah 9/16/2018 11:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

So who is id:YF15261? A Somali or a Saudi?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y17859/

I think its a Libyan dude I seen on familytreeDNA.He's a confirmed E-Y18635
Omaar 9/17/2018 11:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think its a Libyan dude I seen on familytreeDNA.He's a confirmed E-Y18635

Yes the Libyan is E-Y18635+, but he is also E-Y18355+, E-Y18629+, E-Y18637+. It seems that, id:YF15261, is another Saudi.
NetNomad 10/11/2018 5:21:00 PM

Guys, there is a haplogroup T Somali on yfull now as well:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y16897/

From Mudug, I think a Somalia Dir probably.
drobbah 10/17/2018 12:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Yes the Libyan is E-Y18635+, but he is also E-Y18355+, E-Y18629+, E-Y18637+. It seems that, id:YF15261, is another Saudi.

Both those Saudis under BY8100 seem to belong to the same subclan if they are not recent cousins.They belong to the Hubaysh clan which is apparently a sub-branch of the nomadic Juhayna

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Guys, there is a haplogroup T Somali on yfull now as well:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y16897/

From Mudug, I think a Somalia Dir probably.

Are there any BigY results from the Isaaq or northern Dir clan to compare with?
Omaar 10/17/2018 10:10:00 PM

In the new Ftdna Haplotree, Libyan and somali shares same haplogroup "E-BY8085 ". And as i understood, it is their final destination. Is there any pure somali branch?

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/E
drobbah 10/18/2018 9:44:00 AM

V32 is getting more difficult to understand as more people get tested but I feel like once we get enough samples from Chad/Sahel and Horners (non Somalis) then perhaps will we be able to understand the story of V32 men.
NetNomad 10/18/2018 5:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

V32 is getting more difficult to understand as more people get tested but I feel like once we get enough samples from Chad/Sahel and Horners (non Somalis) then perhaps will we be able to understand the story of V32 men.

That Green Sahara study (D’Atanasio et al 2018) indicate which branches what regions belong to. Confusing overlap between regional branches may be due to more recent migrations (post-Islam).

I think it originated in North Sudan, probably along the Nile, almost certainly. And then some branches went West, North, across the Red Sea, and Southeast. Not too difficult to figure out.
drobbah 10/19/2018 9:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

That Green Sahara study (D’Atanasio et al 2018) indicate which branches what regions belong to. Confusing overlap between regional branches may be due to more recent migrations (post-Islam).

I think it originated in North Sudan, probably along the Nile, almost certainly. And then some branches went West, North, across the Red Sea, and Southeast. Not too difficult to figure out.

So if I understand you & the study correctly the three branches of V32 are E-Y25511(Great Lakes region),E-Y15945 (Middle Eastern & Horner subdivided into different branches both around 5.2k) and the Sahelian E-V6873(5.17kya)?

Also does it not make more sense for Arabian V32 to have cross the Sinai instead of directly crossing the Red Sea? I have seen M.E. V32+ Southern Levantines (Palestinians and Jordanians) but not Northern ones while the Hijaz/Yemen have less V32 compared to their eastern brethren.
Omaar 10/19/2018 2:44:00 PM

"In the same period, we found evidence of a movement along the same Sahelian axis involving the internal lineages of E-M78/V32. This haplogroup probably differentiated in eastern Africa 5.99 kya, and we observed a shift in its geographic distribution towards the central Sahel, where it arrived not later than 5.17 kya. Interestingly, all the central sahelian E-V32 chromosomes belong to the internal clade E-V32/V6873, which is almost exclusively found among the Nilo-Saharans (Mann–Whitney test, p = 0.01). These findings suggest that the Nilo-Saharan spread along the Sahelian belt was probably a complex event, involving different clades and different movements from the lake Chad basin to eastern Africa and back. "

It seems E-V6873 is equivalent to E-Z809, and it originated in east Africa, probably around the African Great Lakes area . It's ancestor, came from the lake Chad basin area. Sampled population are from

1) Ehtiopia

Amhara

Ethiopian Jews

Eritrea/Ethiopia--Tigrai

2)Kenya

Borana

Luhya

Maasai.

3) chadians

Bay the way, E-Y15945 split into two clades that geographically apart and if we find out, where this splitting happened, that Place is their origin.

1)E-Y28701, which is almost exclusively found among among west asians, and

2)E-Z813, which is found in Northeast Africa and other places.
NetNomad 11/10/2018 3:30:00 AM

@Omaar,

Did you get your Big Y result?
Omaar 11/10/2018 2:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@Omaar,

Did you get your Big Y result?

I received (FMS) results within two weeks, then i got this message at my account in ftdna homepage "Results for your Big Y test have been delayed. We have updated your predicted completion date, and so on.". Then few weeks later i got new kit, i sent it back but i did not get an email from FTDNA that the kit was received. I have to wait
NetNomad 11/11/2018 7:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I received (FMS) results within two weeks, then i got this message at my account in ftdna homepage "Results for your Big Y test have been delayed. We have updated your predicted completion date, and so on.". Then few weeks later i got new kit, i sent it back but i did not get an email from FTDNA that the kit was received. I have to wait

Cool, I hope you get an old subclade (high TMRCA).
Omaar 11/17/2018 5:18:00 AM

I was E-Y17859 and now i am E-Y18637. But i have this message: " Awaiting Lab Results " at my account in ftdna homepage. What next?
NetNomad 11/19/2018 5:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I was E-Y17859 and now i am E-Y18637. But i have this message: " Awaiting Lab Results " at my account in ftdna homepage. What next?

Huh, that means your Big Y is ready because you can't test for E-Y18637 alone?
Omaar 11/20/2018 4:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Huh, that means your Big Y is ready because you can't test for E-Y18637 alone?

Yes! finally my Big Y Results Are Ready! My haplogroup is E-Y18637. Analysis!!!? pure somali?
drobbah 11/20/2018 4:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Yes! finally my Big Y Results Are Ready! My haplogroup is E-Y18637. Analysis!!!? pure somali?

E-Y18637 seems to be found only amongst the Darood but we have not yet seen a Hawiye Big-Y results
NetNomad 11/20/2018 9:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-Y18637 seems to be found only amongst the Darood but we have not yet seen a Hawiye Big-Y results

Is Omaar Darod?

At the Somali DNA Project they have a Darod STR cluster. I don't think Omaar is in it?

[Bad Link]
NetNomad 11/21/2018 1:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-Y18637 seems to be found only amongst the Darood but we have not yet seen a Hawiye Big-Y results

I think Omaar may be Hawiye?? His TMRCA with the 111 STR Darods is over 1,000 years.
drobbah 11/21/2018 5:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I think Omaar may be Hawiye?? His TMRCA with the 111 STR Darods is over 1,000 years.

I think you are right because I just realized the Darood members that have taken the BigY are E-BY8081 which is downstream from Omaar's results.
NetNomad 11/21/2018 7:56:00 PM

Are you sure though? Because nobody knows the clan of that guy (first Somali to do Big Y).
drobbah 11/21/2018 9:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Are you sure though? Because nobody knows the clan of that guy (first Somali to do Big Y).

Also, his STRs don't seem to be Darod-like. However, this is based on just 12.. We'll have to wait and see.

Well he names his surname as Al Caaqeli Al Hashemi so I assume he's Darood
NetNomad 11/21/2018 10:05:00 PM

Hmm.. we'll see. A few others on the Somali DNA Project have ordered Big Ys. So more are upcoming soon.
Omaar 11/25/2018 2:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

"In the same period, we found evidence of a movement along the same Sahelian axis involving the internal lineages of E-M78/V32. This haplogroup probably differentiated in eastern Africa 5.99 kya, and we observed a shift in its geographic distribution towards the central Sahel, where it arrived not later than 5.17 kya. Interestingly, all the central sahelian E-V32 chromosomes belong to the internal clade E-V32/V6873, which is almost exclusively found among the Nilo-Saharans (Mann–Whitney test, p = 0.01). These findings suggest that the Nilo-Saharan spread along the Sahelian belt was probably a complex event, involving different clades and different movements from the lake Chad basin to eastern Africa and back. "

It seems E-V6873 is equivalent to E-Z809, and it originated in east Africa, probably around the African Great Lakes area . It's ancestor, came from the lake Chad basin area. Sampled population are from

1) Ehtiopia

Amhara

Ethiopian Jews

Eritrea/Ethiopia--Tigrai

2)Kenya

Borana

Luhya

Maasai.

3) chadians

Bay the way, E-Y15945 split into two clades that geographically apart and if we find out, where this splitting happened, that Place is their origin.

1)E-Y28701, which is almost exclusively found among among west asians, and

2)E-Z813, which is found in Northeast Africa and other places.

This internal clade E-V32/E-V6873 is under haplogroup E-BY8025, according to yfull tree.
drobbah 11/27/2018 8:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

This internal clade E-V32/E-V6873 is under haplogroup E-BY8025, according to yfull tree.

The V32 Yfull tree has been updated although those new kits are still being updated.
Omaar 11/29/2018 2:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

No worries. Yeah, it does not go further than E-Z813 for me.

What about E-Z21175? it is a new in the E-V32 Ytree and it is the sistar clade of E-Y17859.
NetNomad 11/29/2018 6:52:00 PM

E-Z813:

:E-Z21175: Ethiopian and Kenyan? Will most Oromos have this subclade?

:E-Y17859: North Sahara and Somali? I added North Sahara because there is a Libyan and Egyptian with this? Maybe the Beja have this clade as well?

E-Y28701:

:E-V5933: Central Sahel - Chadic & Maban-Fur?

:E-Y17750: Ethiopian? Could those Arabs have Habesha ancestry from the Abyssinian occupation of South Arabia? A Tigray and a Yemeni match rather close.

Overall, it is clear that E-V32 must have been born somewhere around North Sudan. Only logical way to connect these distant groups and with the E-V12 guys upstream.
drobbah 12/3/2018 10:41:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

E-Z813:

:E-Z21175: Ethiopian and Kenyan? Will most Oromos have this subclade?

:E-Y17859: North Sahara and Somali? I added North Sahara because there is a Libyan and Egyptian with this? Maybe the Beja have this clade as well?

E-Y28701:

:E-V5933: Central Sahel - Chadic & Maban-Fur?

:E-Y17750: Ethiopian? Could those Arabs have Habesha ancestry from the Abyssinian occupation of South Arabia? A Tigray and a Yemeni match rather close.

Overall, it is clear that E-V32 must have been born somewhere around North Sudan. Only logical way to connect these distant groups and with the E-V12 guys upstream.

Y17750 Ethiopians could also be back migrants from Arabia or this could be a real divide between East/South Cushitic speaking peoples (E-Y15945) and the Agaw Northern Cushitic descended folks in the Highlands.

What has caught me eye is the fact that the Kuwaitis and the Sahelians both share the same subclade.
NetNomad 12/4/2018 6:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Y17750 Ethiopians could also be back migrants from Arabia or this could be a real divide between East/South Cushitic speaking peoples (E-Y15945) and the Agaw Northern Cushitic descended folks in the Highlands.

Possible, but I give the African samples more weight. I think E-Y17750 will be a mainly Ethiopian-Eritrean sub-clade.

By the way, for E-Z21175: ERS2065760 is a Maasai (South or East Cushitic admixture?), ERS2065758 a Kenyan Oromo, and ERS2065755 an Ethiopian Amhara (Oromo admixture?).

Originally Posted by drobbah

What has caught me eye is the fact that the Kuwaitis and the Sahelians both share the same subclade.

Almost certainly they are either recent immigrants to Kuwait or descendants of slaves. If Arabs match with continental Africans under 1,500 years that's usually the case (start of intercontinental exchanges). With Saudis there's also the possibility of traders or pilgrims who settled down. I think that might be the case for the Saudi guys with E-Y17859.
drobbah 12/5/2018 9:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Possible, but I give the African samples more weight. I think E-Y17750 will be a mainly Ethiopian-Eritrean sub-clade.

By the way, for E-Z21175: ERS2065760 is a Maasai (South or East Cushitic admixture?), ERS2065758 a Kenyan Oromo, and ERS2065755 an Ethiopian Amhara (Oromo admixture?).

Almost certainly they are either recent immigrants to Kuwait or descendants of slaves. If Arabs match with continental Africans under 1,500 years that's usually the case (start of intercontinental exchanges). With Saudis there's also the possibility of traders or pilgrims who settled down. I think that might be the case for the Saudi guys with E-Y17859.

I think the Beja would probably fall under Y17750 considering that Red Sea Sudan sample on yfull.

Y17750 = Beja/North Cushitic

Y15945 = Lowland East/South Cushitic

E-V5933 = Extinct Western Cushitic?????
NetNomad 12/6/2018 7:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think the Beja would probably fall under Y17750 considering that Red Sea Sudan sample on yfull.

Y17750 = Beja/North Cushitic

Y15945 = Lowland East/South Cushitic

E-V5933 = Extinct Western Cushitic?????

I do not think E-V32 subclades will match closely with language subgroups. For example, I think it will be more likely that most Bejas will end up being E-Y15945-E-Y17859 than E-Y17750. The Red Sea Sudan sample has a low TMRCA with Arabs, it could be a back-migrant lineage from Ethiopia-Eritrea.

Also, E-V5933 may be the ''original'' Chadic haplogroup before R-V88 took over (speculative, but probable). The NS and NC groups in Chad, North Cameroon, West Sudan who carry it could be former Chadic peoples paternally at least. https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V88/ About the same time period as well ~5000 years ago).

Cushites probably had many different haplogroups (E-V22, E-Y5861 (E-M293, E-V6, E-V42), E-V32, E-M123, T-L208, some J1s).

Some randomly became dominant in some groups while not indicative of different ancestries.
Almagest 12/9/2018 6:32:00 PM

Y17859 is overwhelmingly Somali.

Z21195 Central-South Cushitic and small percentage Chad.

North Ethiopian and Eritrean and Bejas Y17750, probably originated in Eritrea. The Amhara is probably assimilated Oromo. The occasional Oromo is Y17750 and the occassional North Ethiopian, Eritrean is Z813. However, expect majority of Oromos to be Z21175. Somehow I don't think they'll be Y17859.

V5933 restricted to Sudan and further west, except obvious Arab slave trade, there are few SA's on FTDNA with this. I am not sure, but I think the TMRCA is yet to be updated because if not BY8025 is a very young sub clade, which would make sense. Also, slaves from Chad? Seems like a far away place to get slaves.

Y17750 seems too old to be linked with Ethiopian influences in ME, suggesting it may have entered via Sudan or Egypt. Possibly not Egypt because, correct me if I'm wrong, HG J was moving into Egypt at the time? I think Y17750 will split into Ethiopian/Eritrean group and ME/Sudan group.
Omaar 12/11/2018 11:19:00 PM

I have feelings that, some somali male may carry haplogroup E-Z21175 and they are probably assimilated Oromo. I think E-Y17859 is restricted to somalis, while E-Z21175 is restricted to Oromo. "The somali and Oromo people live in clans with special patterns of marriage and the Somali and Oromo people have complex, interwoven pedigrees.". It is also plausible that, the libyan, who share same haplogroup E-BY8085 with the somali, is somali in origin. His ancestors went to arabia long time ago, then with the spread of islam, he ended up to north Africa.
drobbah 12/11/2018 11:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I have feelings that, some somali male may carry haplogroup E-Z21175 and they are probably assimilated Oromo. I think E-Y17859 is restricted to somalis, while E-Z21175 is restricted to Oromo. "The somali and Oromo people live in clans with special patterns of marriage and the Somali and Oromo people have complex, interwoven pedigrees.". It is also plausible that, the libyan, who share same haplogroup E-BY8085 with the somali, is somali in origin. His ancestors went to arabia long time ago, then with the spread of islam, he ended up to north Africa.

I doubt any Somali male will come out with an Oromo marker but the other way around is far more likely.Oromos did assimilate Western Somali clans and the Garre, they also integrated them pretty well while the clans that Somalis integrate always keep the Sheegaato title.We might find Oromo Y-DNA among those dual identity clans like the Jaarso,Akisho,Garre and the Gurgure.
drobbah 12/12/2018 1:25:00 PM

A kuwaiti sample has been uploaded to yfull under the same subclade as the Luo sample (1700 ybp tmrca).
NetNomad 12/14/2018 2:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

A kuwaiti sample has been uploaded to yfull under the same subclade as the Luo sample (1700 ybp tmrca).

Arabs who match Africans under 2,000 ybp is generally not interesting.. obvious why.

However, occasionally you may have genuine old clades in Arabia. Hard to tell when African samples are lacking.
drobbah 12/14/2018 2:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Arabs who match Africans under 2,000 ybp is generally not interesting.. obvious why.

However, occasionally you may have genuine old clades in Arabia. Hard to tell when African samples are lacking.

The Kuwaitis are disproportionately over represented for some reason compared to Egyptians,Southern Levantines and even their fellow Arabians (besides saudis)
NetNomad 12/14/2018 4:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Kuwaitis are disproportionately over represented for some reason compared to Egyptians,Southern Levantines and even their fellow Arabians (besides saudis)

These countries have high GDP per capita and for them Big Y is cheap.
Almagest 12/14/2018 5:53:00 PM

If you look at the YFull ID, there are two shades. The lighter grey shade means the analysis has not been completed, as is the case for the Kuwaiti and ERS samples. I would wait until Jan/Feb for the TMRCA to be updated.
Omaar 12/18/2018 4:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

If you look at the YFull ID, there are two shades. The lighter grey shade means the analysis has not been completed, as is the case for the Kuwaiti and ERS samples. I would wait until Jan/Feb for the TMRCA to be updated.

I have 30 unnamed variants from my BigY test results. I found 11 of them from "ISOGG BY Index page". Their position in the Ytree is not yet verified!. Almagest, do you have any unnamed variants?
Almagest 12/18/2018 7:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I have 30 unnamed variants from my BigY test results. I found 11 of them from "ISOGG BY Index page". Their position in the Ytree is not yet verified!. Almagest, do you have any unnamed variants?

I have 19. YFull says I have 9 high quality.

Originally Posted by drobbah

A kuwaiti sample has been uploaded to yfull under the same subclade as the Luo sample (1700 ybp tmrca).

Changed to 1600!
Omaar 12/20/2018 11:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Is Omaar Darod?

At the Somali DNA Project they have a Darod STR cluster. I don't think Omaar is in it?

[Bad Link]

Well, what do you know! "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.' tribe thing is big lie! There is E-Y18629 from Bari region!
NetNomad 12/21/2018 1:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Well, what do you know! "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.' tribe thing is big lie! There is E-Y18629 from Bari region!

Hmm, interesting. I think he will form a basal Y18629 while the other two Somalis will form another subclade, although not completely sure.

The Dhulbahante and Majeerteen Y111 samples match closely. So I would not say tribes have been completely debunked.
NetNomad 12/27/2018 9:14:00 PM

@Omaar,

Are you of the same tribe as the E-BY8081 guy?
Omaar 12/28/2018 1:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@Omaar,

Are you of the same tribe as the E-BY8081 guy?

I don't know him, but a long time ago I received an email from a Saudi E-V32, who knows E-BY8081 guy very well. The Saudi asked me if i am ashraaf. That is why i think E-BY8081 guy is either somali arab or asharaaf.
NetNomad 12/28/2018 1:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I don't know him, but a long time ago I received an email from a Saudi E-V32, who knows E-BY8081 guy very well. The Saudi asked me if i am ashraaf. That is why i think E-BY8081 guy is either somali arab or asharaaf.

Cool, please do upload to yfull. They have better algorithms than FT. The more samples the more accurate the TMRCAs become.
NetNomad 2/7/2019 6:44:00 PM

Omaar and others,

How is it possible that E-Y18637 has an older TMRCA on yfull than upstream E-Y18629 (if you click on info at https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/).

Not an expert on this, so puzzled.
Omaar 2/8/2019 1:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Omaar and others,

How is it possible that E-Y18637 has an older TMRCA on yfull than upstream E-Y18629 (if you click on info at https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/).

Not an expert on this, so puzzled.

It is not accurate but approximate. An age estimation of my Y18637* is underway. That is what yfull said
drobbah 2/12/2019 3:11:00 AM

Do you guys think it's a coinincidence that E-Y18629 and T-Y45591formed roughly during the same time period? Is it safe to assume that the Somali ethnic group is 3k years old?
Farroukh 2/12/2019 10:14:00 PM

Do you ask about the age of Somalian ethnic identity or Y-SNP common for Somalian males?
Omaar 2/13/2019 1:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Do you ask about the age of Somalian ethnic identity or Y-SNP common for Somalian males?

Originally Posted by drobbah

Do you guys think it's a coinincidence that E-Y18629 and T-Y45591formed roughly during the same time period? Is it safe to assume that the Somali ethnic group is 3k years old?

"In Somalis, the TMRCA was estimated to be 4000–5000 years for the haplogroup E3b1 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years for the haplogroup K2 assuming a generation time of 25 years. Calculations based on a Bayesian coalescence approach (BATWING expansion time) indicated that the growth of the E3b1 cluster γ in the Somali population started 1200 years ago (Table 4) with an initial population size of 1037 individuals. A similar analysis of haplogroup K2 resulted in a calculated expansion time of approximately 3300 years in a small male population of 109 individuals. The results did not change significantly when different prior probability distributions were applied (data not shown)."
NetNomad 2/13/2019 7:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

"In Somalis, the TMRCA was estimated to be 4000–5000 years for the haplogroup E3b1 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years for the haplogroup K2 assuming a generation time of 25 years. Calculations based on a Bayesian coalescence approach (BATWING expansion time) indicated that the growth of the E3b1 cluster γ in the Somali population started 1200 years ago (Table 4) with an initial population size of 1037 individuals. A similar analysis of haplogroup K2 resulted in a calculated expansion time of approximately 3300 years in a small male population of 109 individuals. The results did not change significantly when different prior probability distributions were applied (data not shown)."

Speculation:

The higher TMRCA in that nationwide study could be due to some E-V32s in Somalia being of Oromo or South Cushitic origin under E-Z21175 (maybe present in Rahanweyn clans). Whereas the most frequent Somali one (E-Y18629) has a lower TMRCA.
Farroukh 2/14/2019 1:22:00 AM

Age of ethnic group based on how long is it's self-identity. Somali people are not completely isolated group and includes some different subclades of E-M35. The age of Somali identity could be correlated with time of divergence of Somali language from Cushitic group (3-4 Kya).
NetNomad 2/14/2019 4:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Age of ethnic group based on how long is it's self-identity. Somali people are not completely isolated group and includes some different subclades of E-M35. The age of Somali identity could be correlated with time of divergence of Somali language from Cushitic group (3-4 Kya).

The ethnonym is Somali by the way. ''Somalian'' is a nationality/citizenship tem or a nonstandard way of saying Somali.
Farroukh 2/14/2019 11:25:00 PM

Thank you for kindly corrections
Farroukh 2/17/2019 7:15:00 AM

E-Y17859 and mostly the downstream E-Y18629 can be considered as Somali label. Arabian carriers of this subclade have definite recent Somali ancestry.
Omaar 2/17/2019 8:56:00 PM

certain snp, the Big Y-500 test says "+" but same snp, Yfull (-)? why?
Farroukh 2/18/2019 12:17:00 AM

Maybe unstable SNP?
Omaar 3/23/2019 7:42:00 PM

My mtdna was N1b2. Aftere Yfull sequenced my mtdna haplogroup, they found a new subclade."N1b2a". I have two matches from this article " The Arabian cradle: mitochondrial relicts of the first steps along the southern route out of Africa". One somali and one Yemeni. I expect some progress will happen too in Ytree. According to Yfull, I have 5 private snps and 12 acceptable new snps!. According to Ftdna, i have 28 Private variants. By the way The age of my haplogroup is so weird. It is like, a son is older than his father.
NetNomad 3/23/2019 7:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

My mtdna was N1b2. Aftere Yfull sequenced my mtdna haplogroup, they found a new subclade."N1b2a". I have two matches from this article " The Arabian cradle: mitochondrial relicts of the first steps along the southern route out of Africa". One somali and one Yemeni. I expect some progress will happen too in Ytree. According to Yfull, I have 5 private snps and 12 acceptable new snps!. According to Ftdna, i have 28 Private variants. By the way The age of my haplogroup is so weird. It is like, a son is older than his father.

Y18637 likely emerged a generation of two or three after Y18629.

Since there are more Y18637 samples than Y18629* it may explain why currently Y18637 has an older TMRCA, but since it is not possible for Y18637 to be older than Y18629 it has increased the TMRCA of all in Y18629.

There is another new Somali sample in Y18629* who may change the TMRCA dates again with the next tree update (April).
Omaar 3/27/2019 7:04:00 PM

I Ordered the Big Y-700 upgrade!.
drobbah 5/6/2019 11:34:00 AM

Kinda off topic but I've recently come across an Isaaq Somali with a very rare haplogroup E-M281 (E-V16).The guy hails from the Sanbuur who according to the Isaaq clan foundation story hail from one son of Sheikh Ishaq and live in Sanaag.All I could find about the haplogroup is that it is very rare and has been found in Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia
NetNomad 5/8/2019 5:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Kinda off topic but I've recently come across an Isaaq Somali with a very rare haplogroup E-M281 (E-V16).The guy hails from the Sanbuur who according to the Isaaq clan foundation story hail from one son of Sheikh Ishaq and live in Sanaag.All I could find about the haplogroup is that it is very rare and has been found in Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia

Interesting, E-M281/V16 could be a paleolithic survivor lineage (like C-Y11591 in Europe). Perhaps this was the primary lineage of people inhabiting the Eastern side of the Horn between 20,000-5,000 years ago.

E-Y18629 and T-Y45591 are more Neolithic/agropastoralist linked.
Farroukh 5/16/2019 4:48:00 PM

Omaar, I hope to see your result at Yfull tree. It will be interesting quest.
Khamsin 5/19/2019 8:23:00 PM

I learned so much from this thread on Somali E-V32. Thank you. I have been wondering in all the Somali E-V32 are related and it seems the answer is.

I wonder if there is a big MtDNA similar to the big Y. It does not seem to have much interest unlike the Y haplogroups.
Omaar 7/1/2019 10:47:00 PM

funny It says "Results Completed: 6/30/2019", but nothing has happened so far. Is it time to panic
Omaar 7/2/2019 4:11:00 PM

Genetiker

Y-SNP calls for TAF011

"Below are the Y-SNP calls for TAF011, a sample associated with the Epipaleolithic Iberomaurusian culture from the Grotte des Pigeons, a cave near the village of Taforalt in eastern Morocco.

E-P147-P177-M215-M35-L539-M78-Z1902-V12-Y2863-FGC14377-V32-Y15945-Z813-Y17859-Y18172"

"In 2018, van de Loosdrecht et al. performed the first aDNA tests on the ancient Taforalt individuals, directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 cal BP.[15] The Taforalt samples are the oldest human DNA samples from Africa yet recovered.[16] DNA analysis was performed on seven individuals: six males and one female. ". "Y-DNA analysis shows that the Taforalt males all belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78)."

Is haplogroup E-Y17859 so old?
Pribislav 7/2/2019 11:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Genetiker

Y-SNP calls for TAF011

"Below are the Y-SNP calls for TAF011, a sample associated with the Epipaleolithic Iberomaurusian culture from the Grotte des Pigeons, a cave near the village of Taforalt in eastern Morocco.

E-P147-P177-M215-M35-L539-M78-Z1902-V12-Y2863-FGC14377-V32-Y15945-Z813-Y17859-Y18172"

"In 2018, van de Loosdrecht et al. performed the first aDNA tests on the ancient Taforalt individuals, directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 cal BP.[15] The Taforalt samples are the oldest human DNA samples from Africa yet recovered.[16] DNA analysis was performed on seven individuals: six males and one female. ". "Y-DNA analysis shows that the Taforalt males all belonged to Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78)."

Is haplogroup E-Y17859 so old?

Y17859 call is a false positive. All Taforalt individuals are pre-M78 (they are positive for ~75% SNPs on M78 level), consequently they are negative for all downstream subclades.
drobbah 7/2/2019 11:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by Khamsin

I learned so much from this thread on Somali E-V32. Thank you. I have been wondering in all the Somali E-V32 are related and it seems the answer is.

I wonder if there is a big MtDNA similar to the big Y. It does not seem to have much interest unlike the Y haplogroups.

You might be one of many Hararis who descend from Somalis but have assimilated into Harar over the generations
VytautusofAukstaitija 8/17/2019 7:29:00 AM

The Harari urban population likely has a higher degree of E-V32 and T1a-L208, primarily due to centuries of dynastic marriages and assimilation of Somali clansmen into the tiny community. There are also very strong clan ties between ethnic Harari and Somali Sheikhaal clansmen.

I wanted to bring up a matter of much importance - is there a way we can have the earliest tested PN/ELM sample, the 3,100-3,400 I8874 E-V32 male be placed on YFull?

@NiloSaharan;, I believe you may know a way to do this.

It would be best if they could place all the samples on the paper there, just as they did with the eastern steppe aDNA paper.
Omaar 1/7/2020 1:34:00 AM

E-Y17859> E-Y18629> E-Y163928> E-Y163949

Haplogroup E-Y163949/BY203771 formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 800 ybp. Only 32 generations ago, interesting

Where this haplogroup originated, east Ethiopia or northeast Somalia?
drobbah 1/8/2020 7:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

E-Y17859> E-Y18629> E-Y163928> E-Y163949

Haplogroup E-Y163949/BY203771 formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 800 ybp. Only 32 generations ago, interesting

Where this haplogroup originated, east Ethiopia or northeast Somalia?

It looks to be restricted to Darood clan members.What does Darood folklore say about their geographic origins?
Omaar 1/18/2020 7:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Omaar, I hope to see your result at Yfull tree. It will be interesting quest.

I am still waiting my FINAL RESULTS from both FTDNA and Yfull. I am stuck in this paragroup E-Y18637*, sinse 2018, that is when I got my "Big Y 500"- results.

Yfull predicted my terminal haplogroup january 2019 from "Big Y 500"-results. Surprise it was paragroup E-Y18637*, exactly as FTDNA alread confirmed 2018. Yfull also received my Big Y 700 august 2019. Surprise again the results stayed paragroup E-Y18637*. Now the year 2020 I am still in paragroup E-Y18637*, besides I have 40 private variants and the age of paragroup E-Y18637* is way older then the age of it's ancestral. Does this sound familiar? Maybe i am impatient
Farroukh 1/21/2020 10:59:00 AM

Omaar, it means you belong to relict branch with no other living bearers. Let you wait for a while. God knows, maybe someone closer clan will be tested
drobbah 1/21/2020 11:14:00 AM

The Egyptian E-Y17859* sample is from Upper Egypt
drobbah 2/4/2020 6:29:00 AM

I just noticed the closest str results to Habar Awal and Habar Jeclo E-V32 on ftdna are two Kuwaitis.Perhaps they are long lost Isaaq cousins descended from Berbera merchants lol
Omaar 3/17/2020 4:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just ordered Big Y from FTDNA....Will post my results once I receive it

Judging from the Somali DNA project I (and the other Habar Awal dudes) should be atleast Y17859

I was browsing through old posts and found your promise which is almost three years ago!. Did you post your results on here?. I must have missed it. 😊
Omaar 3/18/2020 3:17:00 PM

What we roughly know now about somalis, who fall under the haplogroup E-Y17859.

Firstly E-Y17859 have two branches. (source:haplotree family tree dna)

1) E-BY8075 (which is so far absent from Somalia)? and

2) E-BY8048, (which has now three clades).

---------->2) a-E-Y18637, with subclades E-BY8085 and E-BY8100. Found in many places!. " its analysis is in progress"

---------->2) b-E-BY202497, with subclade E-BY203771. Harti clade?

---------->2) c-E-BY155996. Isaaq or asharaf clade?

Undifferentiated BY8048 (E-BY8048*) is not found anywhere so far!?

I hope more somali people will order " the Big Y test".
Omaar 3/29/2020 10:00:00 PM

E-Y18637, has now three subclades 1)E-BY8085, 2) E-BY8100 and 3)E-BY192465
GeelJire 3/30/2020 3:11:00 PM

Apparently an Cismaan Maxamuud from Bari, Yfull results are E-Y18637 (E-BY8081). Interesting results since that sub-clade isn't a typical result for people from that region.
Almagest 4/2/2020 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I am still waiting my FINAL RESULTS from both FTDNA and Yfull. I am stuck in this paragroup E-Y18637*, sinse 2018, that is when I got my "Big Y 500"- results.

Yfull predicted my terminal haplogroup january 2019 from "Big Y 500"-results. Surprise it was paragroup E-Y18637*, exactly as FTDNA alread confirmed 2018. Yfull also received my Big Y 700 august 2019. Surprise again the results stayed paragroup E-Y18637*. Now the year 2020 I am still in paragroup E-Y18637*, besides I have 40 private variants and the age of paragroup E-Y18637* is way older then the age of it's ancestral. Does this sound familiar? Maybe i am impatient

Omaar, you must be pleased to see another Y18637*, do you know his origin?

Also a first Ethiopian BigY e1b1 project “abdulgader” would nice to know which ethnic group he belongs to.
Omaar 4/2/2020 2:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

Omaar, you must be pleased to see another Y18637*, do you know his origin?

Also a first Ethiopian BigY e1b1 project “abdulgader” would nice to know which ethnic group he belongs to.

Yes!, but unfortunately I don't know his background. Seems, we both belong to E-BY192465. which is downstream of haplogroup E-Y18637.

Almagest, You and Asharaf individual belong to E-BY155996, which is downstream of haplogroup E-Y18629. Any thoughts?
Almagest 4/2/2020 5:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Yes!, but unfortunately I don't know his background. Seems, we both belong to E-BY192465. which is downstream of haplogroup E-Y18637.

Almagest, You and Asharaf individual belong to E-BY155996, which is downstream of haplogroup E-Y18629. Any thoughts?

It must be a really early split in BY155996 because our STR’s are very far. Does he claim Asharaf from south Somalia?
NetNomad 4/2/2020 6:32:00 PM

Interesting to see how the Somali y-tree is growing. Cool stuff.
Omaar 4/18/2020 1:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by GeelJire

Apparently an Cismaan Maxamuud from Bari, Yfull results are E-Y18637 (E-BY8081). Interesting results since that sub-clade isn't a typical result for people from that region.

Originally Posted by drobbah

Well he names his surname as Al Caaqeli Al Hashemi so I assume he's Darood

I suppose, you are correct!. Their TMRCA is estimated to be only a 500 ybp.
sum1 5/1/2020 11:10:00 AM

Seems we have a new result from Bay, South Somalia. Does anyone know his clan?
drobbah 5/1/2020 1:25:00 PM

Bay province is the heartland of the Raxanweyn clan
Lank 5/1/2020 2:59:00 PM

So do all Somali V32 samples you guys know of so far belong to Y18629?
drobbah 5/2/2020 12:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lank

So do all Somali V32 samples you guys know of so far belong to Y18629?

So far it seems to be a Somali lineage but there are Saudis from the Hubaishi and Badawi clan who also have it; although they are most likely to be descendants of assimilated Somalis
Omaar 5/2/2020 11:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lank

So do all Somali V32 samples you guys know of so far belong to Y18629?

No! This guy is Z813* , in his own words.

Originally Posted by drobbah

Found a Habar Jeclo dude who is Z813 and Y17859-

[Bad Link]Originally Posted by lavrok

I believe that is my result. I have also tested on 23andme and got a similar result.

Originally Posted by Omaar

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Are you E-Z813*, ( without subclade).

Originally Posted by lavrok

No worries. Yeah, it does not go further than E-Z813 for me.
lavrok 5/9/2020 6:16:00 PM

Yes, I can confirm.

What does that mean though? Anyone have any ideas?
drobbah 6/3/2020 11:55:00 PM

There's a new kit that has E-BY155996 which is a new subclade and has upgraded the Ciise Muuse sample to the same subclade.I can only guess that this new sample is Isaaq or a Northerner
Omaar 6/26/2020 4:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think its a Libyan dude I seen on familytreeDNA.He's a confirmed E-Y18635

The Libyan guy (BY8085) and a somali guy match 64/67 (one of the mismatches is DYS449). Their MRCA probably lived 225 ago. The Libyan guy is definitely somali, just saying
NetNomad 6/27/2020 2:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

The Libyan guy (BY8085) and a somali guy match 64/67 (one of the mismatches is DYS449). Their MRCA probably lived 225 ago. The Libyan guy is definitely somali, just saying

Kind of odd that he really identifies as a Libyan. Perhaps something else is going on we don't know. Maybe he descendants from a Somali merchant and now he is not culturally Somali.
lavrok 7/4/2020 4:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Are you E-Z813*, ( without subclade).

Originally Posted by lavrok

No worries. Yeah, it does not go further than E-Z813 for me.

It seems to have been updated, and now showing downstream options, but they are in blue and not green (tested positive) like the E-Z813. My page now looks:

Z-813 (in green)

>>E-Y17859 (in blue)

>>E-Z820 (in blue)

Originally Posted by drobbah

I just noticed the closest str results to Habar Awal and Habar Jeclo E-V32 on ftdna are two Kuwaitis.Perhaps they are long lost Isaaq cousins descended from Berbera merchants lol

How close are the Habar Awal and Habar Jeclo E-V32 results?
Omaar 7/5/2020 10:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a new kit that has E-BY155996 which is a new subclade and has upgraded the Ciise Muuse sample to the same subclade.I can only guess that this new sample is Isaaq or a Northerner

He told me, he is Asharaf Hasany.
NetNomad 7/5/2020 10:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

He told me, he is Asharaf Hasany.

Are they part of the Sheekhaal conferderacy? If so, then he probably has origins from Harar region as Sheekhaal started from there.
diini95 7/5/2020 10:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

He told me, he is Asharaf Hasany.

Asharaf Hasany is that Reer Aw Xasan?
Omaar 7/5/2020 10:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Are they part of the Sheekhaal conferderacy? If so, then he probably has origins from Harar region as Sheekhaal started from there.

I don't know.

He also said "our 10th great grandfather came from Mecca, his name was Sharif Mahamud and his descendants live in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya".
NetNomad 7/5/2020 11:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I don't know.

He also said "our 10th great grandfather came from Mecca, his name was Sharif Mahamud and his descendants live in Somalia, Ethiopia and Kenya".

Interesting, ask him to upload to yfull for TMRCA improvements (the more Somali samples, the more accurate it becomes).
drobbah 7/6/2020 6:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

He told me, he is Asharaf Hasany.

I just mailed my BigY kit back to the lab, we will see in two months if I match with the CM (Cisse Muuse) and the Ashraaf individual.Does anyone know if E-V32 is common among these southern Ashraaf?
NetNomad 7/6/2020 10:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I just mailed my BigY kit back to the lab, we will see in two months if I match with the CM (Cisse Muuse) and the Ashraaf individual.Does anyone know if E-V32 is common among these southern Ashraaf?

Not sure if they are similar to the Sheekhaal, but I have been connected to a handful of Sheekhaals on 23andMe and noticed they have some really odd haplogroups (for Somalis) like R1a, E-M123, E-M81, G and some others, but they also have cases of E-V32. Autosomally they are usually highly Somali. The foreignness is usually only on their paternal lineage and only trace amount on autosomal.
NetNomad 7/10/2020 2:25:00 AM

YSEQ is offering some of these Somali Y-SNPs:

E-BY192465 equivalents: BY192466 and BY192797

E-BY8081 equivalents: BY8085, Y18355, and Y18644

E-Y163928

E-Y163949 equivalent: BY203771
Deftextra 7/17/2020 7:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Not sure if they are similar to the Sheekhaal, but I have been connected to a handful of Sheekhaals on 23andMe and noticed they have some really odd haplogroups (for Somalis) like R1a, E-M123, E-M81, G and some others, but they also have cases of E-V32. Autosomally they are usually highly Somali. The foreignness is usually only on their paternal lineage and only trace amount on autosomal.

Are these Sheekhaals from the South? Sheekhaals are part of a Benadiri confederation in Merka so might be where their odd haplogroup is coming from?
drobbah 7/17/2020 7:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

Are these Sheekhaals from the South? Sheekhaals are part of a Benadiri confederation in Merka so might be where their odd haplogroup is coming from?

The Shekhaal live all over Somaliweyn, they live in Ethiopia and even Somaliland, they claim their ancestor Abaadir Umar Al-rida Fiqi Umar i(descendant of Abu Bakr) is buried in Harar but the Hararis claim him as their ancestor too.I think they are like a pastoral version of the Benadiri but instead they fully assimilated in Somaliland prior to the Somalis expanding into Ethiopia and Southern Somalia.
farjanomar 7/30/2020 10:33:00 AM

Hello everyone

I am new here. Thanks you all for your contribution to the Somali genetics section, i have learned a lot from the forum.

I recently took a 23andMe test and its now in its final phase and they said i get the results in 10 days. So i will be happy to post the result here.

Once i know my Somali haplogroup, i will test for big Y next. I know some of you from other forums., which is a plus.
farjanomar 8/1/2020 5:37:00 AM

Ten days of waiting has turned out to be 1 day for my 23andMe results!

Here are my results:

Paternal:

E-V32

Maternal:

L2a1

neanderthal:

75
farjanomar 8/1/2020 6:08:00 AM

Here is my Autosomal:
drobbah 8/1/2020 6:12:00 AM

Are you going to take the BigY? And what's your clan?
farjanomar 8/1/2020 7:10:00 AM

Yes and No

I will not do the expensive one, but will test for Somali SNP Mutations with YSEQ.

I am Harti/Geesi guule.
farjanomar 8/1/2020 7:32:00 AM

I will first start with the SNP that some hartis get E-Y163949 equivalent: BY203771.
farjanomar 8/1/2020 6:56:00 PM

[Bad Link]

Things are getting very interesting guys- Ogaden with T-M184. Thats why imo its too early for Somali Clan HG/Sub-clade.

we need a lot more people tested.
NetNomad 8/1/2020 7:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

[Bad Link]

Things are getting very interesting guys- Ogaden with T-M184. Thats why imo its too early for Somali Clan HG/Sub-clade.

we need a lot more people tested.

This mainly Absame/Ogaden town has 50% hg T according to Giuseppe Iacovacci et al. 2016:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilavo_(woreda)

So who knows.. but I think that the normative lineage of the Absame/Ogaden is E-Y163928 (so far the case on FamilyTreeDNA).

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yes and No

I will not do the expensive one, but will test for Somali SNP Mutations with YSEQ.

I am Harti/Geesi guule.

Interesting, let us know when you get the result. If you are positive for E-BY203771 (E-Y163949) it would be the 4th direct Harti subclan which is.
farjanomar 8/2/2020 6:23:00 AM

This mainly Absame/Ogaden town has 50% hg T according to Giuseppe Iacovacci et al. 2016:

That's very interesting- Ogaden are known to have intagreted a lot of People, its not even a secret, hense the Joke (Somali and Ogadanis are equel in size)

Can you send the link for the research?
farjanomar 8/2/2020 6:24:00 AM

"Interesting, let us know when you get the result. If you are positive for E-BY203771 (E-Y163949) it would be the 4th direct Harti subclan which is."

I will as soon as i get it inshaAllaah
farjanomar 8/2/2020 8:20:00 AM

@NetNomad@drobbah@Omaar

I have just ordered YSEQ for Somali SNPs E-Y163949 and E-BY203771.
drobbah 8/14/2020 5:35:00 AM

Already got my Y-111 but still waiting for my Y-700 results, in meantime I joined Somali ftdna group
farjanomar 8/14/2020 2:07:00 PM

Cool. What sub clade are you now at Y-111?
drobbah 8/14/2020 4:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Cool. What sub clade are you now at Y-111?

They still have me at E-M35 for some reason.If you are on the project page my kit# is IN89257
farjanomar 8/16/2020 3:04:00 PM

After waiting for 2 weeks, i received my Yseq test kit. their office in is Germany, so i have to send it back to Germany.
farjanomar 8/16/2020 3:07:00 PM

I send it express so that they get it quick. Monday or Tuesday.
farjanomar 8/18/2020 8:48:00 AM

Hi guys. I did send my YSEQ kit back today, although international express shipping from the US is very expensive, i still paid

so that i don't have to wait for up 2 weeks for the regular service. It will 2-3 days.
farjanomar 8/18/2020 9:00:00 AM

So guys, i have a question for you.

What chances are there, that there will be more sub clades of E-Y18629? other than the 3 we have now.

(E-Y163928, E-Y18637 BY155996)
Farroukh 8/18/2020 10:11:00 AM

Farjanomar, such old clade as E-V32 has many uncovered downstream branches. If you involve to testing many our Somalian brothers we see much interesting history for all E-M35 world

Good luck and keep us updated
farjanomar 8/20/2020 5:48:00 AM

This morning i got an Email that YSEQ has received my kit and is under process.
farjanomar 8/28/2020 5:29:00 AM

Neanderthal:

I don't know if you guys noticed or are aware of, that their is a big difference btw Somali Men And Women, when it comes to Neanderthal Variants.

I saw that Somali Women were scoring 100-127 and Somali Men are mostly getting under 100. I saw in my 23andme relatives and, also 23andme

forum, Somali Results. Does anyone know why?
Farroukh 8/28/2020 10:28:00 AM

Do you mean Neanderthal autosomal components prevail among Somalian women but not men?

If so its just a case, not system and not mtDNA connected Neanderthal gene transfer.
farjanomar 9/5/2020 8:59:00 AM

My YSEQ Somali SNPs results has arrived:

Detailed Invoice:

Date Ordered: Sunday 02 August, 2020

The comments for your order are

Your results (YSEQ ID 25105) have been posted:

[url]https://

Quick results summary:

Y163928 T+

BY203771 C+

Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Delivered
drobbah 9/5/2020 9:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Neanderthal:

I don't know if you guys noticed or are aware of, that their is a big difference btw Somali Men And Women, when it comes to Neanderthal Variants.

I saw that Somali Women were scoring 100-127 and Somali Men are mostly getting under 100. I saw in my 23andme relatives and, also 23andme

forum, Somali Results. Does anyone know why?

Many of my Somali matches and myself score over 100 neanderthal variants on 23andme.There is no major difference between the genders
NetNomad 9/5/2020 4:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

My YSEQ Somali SNPs results has arrived:

Detailed Invoice:

Date Ordered: Sunday 02 August, 2020

The comments for your order are

Your results (YSEQ ID 25105) have been posted:

[url]https://

Quick results summary:

Y163928 T+

BY203771 C+

Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Delivered

Quite interesting that you managed to select the correct SNPs before ever doing a Big or Full Y test. This shows that there is some truth to Somali clans and it isn't just random luck.
farjanomar 9/6/2020 1:42:00 PM

NetNomad:

Do you think, we should incourage , more Somali Yseq tests. A lot of other nationalities are doing it. Its a cheap way to know, one's SNP.

A lot Somalis already know they are E-V32 and T1a through 23andMe.
NetNomad 9/6/2020 3:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

NetNomad:

Do you think, we should incourage , more Somali Yseq tests. A lot of other nationalities are doing it. Its a cheap way to know, one's SNP.

A lot Somalis already know they are E-V32 and T1a through 23andMe.

Perhaps for Hartis there is sufficient data for which SNPs to test (these three subgroups should capture almost all):

* E-Y163928 & E-Y163949 equivalent: E-BY203771.

* E-BY8081 equivalents: E-BY8085, E-Y18355, and E-Y18644.

* J-ZS5383.

But for other Somalis, I'd suggest more of them first take a Big Y or some other kind of WGS test because not enough subclades are known there.
farjanomar 9/12/2020 1:45:00 PM

@NetNomad. Haha, Good for me that, i hit the goal with my first test. I was lucky to have chosen the right SNPs for the test.

Yeah, I had to choose btw the two Harti Clades tested so far, i chose the one with the most Harti results. (BY203771).
farjanomar 9/16/2020 3:05:00 PM

Hi-guys. This place is dry nowadays:laugh.

I am trying to get on Yfull list, and transfer my YSEQ results, but need a little help. Couldn't find any help online, so maybe you can help.

So, #1. I went to sign up on YFULL site, but, i could not, because they wanted the BAM file before i could sign with them.

#2. I went to YSEQ site, and, they said, i just needed to sign up and they will do automatically, so they said i should only give

YSEQ ID on YFULL form. The problem is they did not give the link to the YFULlL form, and the regular form does not

have that option.

@NetNomad @farroukh @Omaar @drobbah
NetNomad 9/16/2020 3:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Hi-guys. This place is dry nowadays:laugh.

I am trying to get on Yfull list, and transfer my YSEQ results, but need a little help. Couldn't find any help online, so maybe you can help.

So, #1. I went to sign up on YFULL site, but, i could not, because they wanted the BAM file before i could sign with them.

#2. I went to YSEQ site, and, they said, i just needed to sign up and they will do automatically, so they said i should only give

YSEQ ID on YFULL form. The problem is they did not give the link to the YFULlL form, and the regular form does not

have that option.

@NetNomad @farroukh @Omaar @drobbah

YFull is only for whole genome sequencing of the Y-Chromosome. What you tested with at YSeq is just a SNP test. Very different things. You can't upload to YFull with just YSeq SNP test.
drobbah 10/3/2020 12:13:00 AM

Just got my subclade assigned even though ftdna's lab is saying they are still analyzing. My subclade as of right now is E-BY155996, which is the same as the Cisse Muuse which makes sense I'm Sacad Muuse.I think my final result will be a subclade that both me and the CM share to the exclusion of the Ashraaf individual
hartaisarlag 10/3/2020 12:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just got my subclade assigned even though ftdna's lab is saying they are still analyzing. My subclade as of right now is E-BY155996, which is the same as the Cisse Muuse which makes sense I'm Sacad Muuse.I think my final result will be a subclade that both me and the CM share to the exclusion of the Ashraaf individual

Is this Big Y? If so, what batch are you in?
drobbah 10/3/2020 12:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by hartaisarlag

Is this Big Y? If so, what batch are you in?

My batch is 1109, my results have been delayed by another two weeks.
drobbah 10/3/2020 5:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

My batch is 1109, my results have been delayed by another two weeks.

Guess I was wrong, E-BY155996 is my terminal snp
farjanomar 10/3/2020 11:34:00 AM

Congrats bro. @drobbar

How many in you group are waiting for Big Y results, except you and the CM guy? I see a lot of red in the group.
drobbah 10/3/2020 11:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Congrats bro.

How many in you group are waiting for Big results, except you and the CM guy? I see a lot of red in the group.

Don't know the other Habar Awal in the group so I wouldn't know.Honestly I don't think their results will be different from mine considering they are all Sacad Muuse with similar str results.
farjanomar 10/3/2020 11:54:00 AM

I have also joined FTDNA Somali project. They said, i could transfer my YSEQ result, if i joined and did Y12 marker basic test.

They received my kit and are processing now.
NetNomad 10/3/2020 6:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Don't know the other Habar Awal in the group so I wouldn't know.Honestly I don't think their results will be different from mine considering they are all Sacad Muuse with similar str results.

Try to upload to yfull if you can. It usually takes weeks before their analysis is finished. The sooner the better.
drobbah 10/5/2020 4:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Try to upload to yfull if you can. It usually takes weeks before their analysis is finished. The sooner the better.

Just uploaded it today.The only benefit I saw in uploading was checking the tmrca between me and the CM sample, hopefully the tmrca matches our abtrisi (genealogy) which could be between 400-550 years ago!
farjanomar 10/5/2020 11:08:00 AM

@drobbar. Congrats!

So, your are the new Kit and the CM with Somali flag. all under E-Y18629.
drobbah 10/5/2020 11:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@drobbar. Congrats!

So, your are the new Kit and the CM with Somali flag. all under E-Y18629.

Yes I'm the new kit but I think once they are done processing my bam, they will assign a new subclade.
farjanomar 10/6/2020 5:54:00 AM

@drobbar

It looks like you guys are going to have, your own E-Isaaq Somali Sub-Clade. Do you know of any other Clan that share, the Sub-Clade?
drobbah 10/6/2020 8:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@drobbar

It looks like you guys are going to have, your own E-Isaaq Somali Sub-Clade. Do you know of any other Clan that share, the Sub-Clade?

There's a Habar Jeclo who took the BigY but he is Z813* and according to some on this forum the only guy who shares the same clade as us Habar Awal seems to be an Ashraaf.Don't understand why he's related to us HA tho, historically the two clans had no relations with each other.
drobbah 10/7/2020 6:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a Habar Jeclo who took the BigY but he is Z813* and according to some on this forum the only guy who shares the same clade as us Habar Awal seems to be an Ashraaf.Don't understand why he's related to us HA tho, historically the two clans had no relations with each other.

Seems ftdna is updating their tree, both me and the CM has been assigned E-BY75676 which is downstream of the previous clade that we shared with the Ashraaf individual.
farjanomar 10/7/2020 10:13:00 AM

Congrats bro! Just saw you big Y Update. It took you and others a lot of time, to get to this point. We need to keep growing the Somali Big Y. list.

@drobbar
drobbah 10/8/2020 7:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Congrats bro! Just saw you big Y Update. It took you and others a lot of time, to get to this point. We need to keep growing the Somali Big Y. list.

@drobbah

Now we need more BigY results from the smaller clans of Somaliweyn not just from the major ones in order to fully understand our origins and how we became the Somali ethnic group.
farjanomar 10/8/2020 10:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Now we need more BigY results from the smaller clans of Somaliweyn not just from the major ones in order to fully understand our origins and how we became the Somali ethnic group.

Very good idea bro. That's one of the main reasons we join forums like this. One reason enough Somalis don't take the big Y is that their's no place, where

our People can get information about the benefits of big Y testing and where to go do it. Its not only Money, especially, now yearly discounts with Dante and

Ftdna.

I have like almost 500 DNA 23andMe relatives, 75-90% Somalis. So, some of them i am sure will like to to take Big Y tests, if they

can get enough information.
farjanomar 10/8/2020 10:52:00 AM

Somali forums like FTDNA Somali project and Yfull are only for members who have paid for their Services. One cannot go there for advice.

So, my advice today is, it's possible to create a Anthrogenica sticky thread, where we can direct our People and give Big Y testing information.

@drobbar@Omaar@NetNomad@Awale@Farroukh@GeelJire@Ga brielZelalem@transqabil@Almagest@Deftextra
lavrok 10/9/2020 4:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a Habar Jeclo who took the BigY but he is Z813* and according to some on this forum the only guy who shares the same clade as us Habar Awal seems to be an Ashraaf.Don't understand why he's related to us HA tho, historically the two clans had no relations with each other.

I dont know if you were referring to my result there, but just to clarify, I did not do the BigY, I've used other services (e.g. 23andme) and uploaded to FTDNA. I might consider the Big Y if I catch it on a discount.

If you were referring to other HJ results, could you give us more information on it?

I have asked you this previously but perhaps you did not see it, I was wondering how close the Isaaq E results are so far?
drobbah 10/9/2020 4:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I dont know if you were referring to my result there, but just to clarify, I did not do the BigY, I've used other services (e.g. 23andme) and uploaded to FTDNA. I might consider the Big Y if I catch it on a discount.

If you were referring to other HJ results, could you give us more information on it?

I have asked you this previously but perhaps you did not see it, I was wondering how close the Isaaq E results are so far?

Are you the E-Z813 sample or is that another HJ?
lavrok 10/9/2020 5:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Are you the E-Z813 sample or is that another HJ?

I am the E-Z813 sample.
drobbah 10/9/2020 5:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I am the E-Z813 sample.

We need more Arap and HJ like yourself to take the bigY but as of now based on str, I think you will end up E-BY155996 with possibly a new subclade.
lavrok 10/9/2020 6:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

We need more Arap and HJ like yourself to take the bigY but as of now based on str, I think you will end up E-BY155996 with possibly a new subclade.

I thought the HJ and HA E results would be closer than that, what makes you think the HJ E will be E-BY155996?

One Arap result I am aware of appears to be E-M78.
drobbah 10/9/2020 6:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by lavrok

I thought the HJ and HA E results would be closer than that, what makes you think the HJ E will be E-BY155996?

One Arap result I am aware of appears to be E-M78.

Your str results are more similar to us HA than the Ashraaf individual and he's also E-BY155996. I don't think you'll get our HA downstream clade though, since it probably goes back to a very recent ancestor in the last 500 years for me and the CM.It's just an educated guess walaal
lavrok 10/9/2020 6:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Your str results are more similar to us HA than the Ashraaf individual and he's also E-BY155996. I don't think you'll get our HA downstream clade though, since it probably goes back to a very recent ancestor in the last 500 years for me and the CM.It's just an educated guess walaal

This is all very interesting. Each new result adds more intrigue. Just the other week a Garxajis result came online on 23andme and its E-V32. I was under the impression that Garxajis were majority T, so was very surprised by it.
drobbah 10/10/2020 3:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by lavrok

This is all very interesting. Each new result adds more intrigue. Just the other week a Garxajis result came online on 23andme and its E-V32. I was under the impression that Garxajis were majority T, so was very surprised by it.

I heard about those results.They are Eastern HY so it could be a possibility of Harti being incorporated into their clan.The same goes for the Warsengsli T-M70 results who are probably assimilated local Sanaag Dir or Isaaqs.
lavrok 10/10/2020 4:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I heard about those results.They are Eastern HY so it could be a possibility of Harti being incorporated into their clan.The same goes for the Warsengsli T-M70 results who are probably assimilated local Sanaag Dir or Isaaqs.

The most recent Garxajis E-v32 result is actually an Eidagala not Habar Yonis, so doubt this is a case of Harti being incorporated.
farjanomar 10/10/2020 5:25:00 AM

@Iavrok what is your kit #?
drobbah 10/10/2020 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by lavrok

The most recent Garxajis E-v32 result is actually an Eidagala not Habar Yonis, so doubt this is a case of Harti being incorporated.

Very interesting! I hope the brother takes the BigY
farjanomar 10/10/2020 6:04:00 AM

Minority Haplogroup in Clans, could be from a lot places. Imo, i think a lot could be adopted Maternal relatives Children. They all raised with

adopting families Lineage. Even today, we see some of those People today.
drobbah 10/10/2020 6:08:00 AM

I have a theory that E-BY155996 will end up being the subclade of E-V32 positive Dirs.It also explains how the Ashraaf has the subclade aswell
farjanomar 10/10/2020 9:40:00 AM

Bro, what's the Ashraaf kit #?
drobbah 10/10/2020 10:22:00 AM

Check the E-M35 project, he's there
drobbah 10/12/2020 12:20:00 PM

I'm on yfull now and my tmrca with the other HA looks massive...

Edit: Apparently age estimation is still in progress
Almagest 10/12/2020 1:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I'm on yfull now and my tmrca with the other HA looks massive...

Edit: Apparently age estimation is still in progress

Actually, I think it’s the opposite. We share so many snp’s Downstream of Y18629, they haven’t been able to determine our own subclade yet. We might need a third Y18629* to split it up.

Just like what happened with the other BY155996 kit, I got moved to another BY Clade after you tested.

?
drobbah 10/15/2020 2:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

Actually, I think it’s the opposite. We share so many snp’s Downstream of Y18629, they haven’t been able to determine our own subclade yet. We might need a third Y18629* to split it up.

Just like what happened with the other BY155996 kit, I got moved to another BY Clade after you tested.

?

On FTDNA we have 15 variants that don't match.Does that mean when another SM or CM takes the BigY, either of us will get assigned to a new downstream subclade? Also do you think we will get a tmrca on yfull that matches the time period when Muuse existed according to our abtirsi?
Almagest 10/16/2020 1:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

On FTDNA we have 15 variants that don't match.Does that mean when another SM or CM takes the BigY, either of us will get assigned to a new downstream subclade? Also do you think we will get a tmrca on yfull that matches the time period when Muuse existed according to our abtirsi?

Here’s how I understand it;

15 non matching variants = 7.5 non matching SNP’s on my line and your line (I.e if Muuse had two sons, my line through son 1 has 7.5 new SNP’s and your line through son 2 has 7.5 new SNP’s for a total of 15 non matching snp’s)

Some say 1 new SNP = 100 years or about 3 generations which puts our tmrca to 750 years, other say 1 new snp = 1.5 generations, so 7.5 (snp) x 1.5 (snp generation length) x 30 (avg generation age) = tmrca 337 ybp. That’s average 550 ybp for the two.

There’s obviously quite a difference between the two estimates. The best I have been able to find online is someone with a paper trail going back to 1830 for two Big Y testers.

See here

[Bad Link]

The 1.5 generation per new snp method checks out for them according to their paper trail.

Personally I think it’s 2 generations for a new snp, so a tmrca of 450-500 ybp. You never know though because I expect different haplogroups to have different mutation rates.
Farroukh 10/16/2020 7:59:00 AM

Yfull's rate (simplified):

2 SNPs=9 generations (1 SNP~4.5 generations~150 years)
Almagest 10/16/2020 9:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Yfull's rate (simplified):

2 SNPs=9 generations (1 SNP~4.5 generations~150 years)

I did come across that, yfull use 1 “reliable” snp per 150 years estimate. I guess you can say that including “unreliable” calls the figure you would use is much lower (<100 years). Just looking further on the web it seems everyone uses different estimates, some self-reported grandfather-grandson big y results show 1 snp some 2 snp difference between them. I can’t find any paper on Snp mutation like you can on Str mutation rates. I think it’s never ending speculation until we get proper research. Even then those averages should not be used for short tmrca calculations because of the variability and randomness of mutations, they will only be accurate in tmrca greater than 1000 years.
Farroukh 10/17/2020 10:17:00 AM

Y-SNP estimations are suitable for major points and are not useful for clan members kinship.

One can find many examples of subclades including father and sons but with TMRCA older than 100 years (TMRCA=30 years IRL).
Farroukh 10/17/2020 10:20:00 AM

Dear friends,

This topic is about our Somalian brothers. Let us continue our "rates discussion" in the proper section

It seems Somalian E-M35 people went through several bottlenecks in the past.
Buxoro 10/17/2020 10:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Dear friends,

This topic is about our Somalian brothers. Let us continue our "rates discussion" in the proper section

It seems Somalian E-M35 people went through several bottlenecks in the past.

Nevermind, i got what you meant.

But calling all e-m35 people brothers is strange.
Farroukh 10/17/2020 1:41:00 PM

Dear Buxoro,

Sure, all people are children of Y-Adam and Mt-Eve and therefore all of E-M35 are brothers
farjanomar 10/19/2020 4:34:00 AM

My FTDNA Y-12 Marker test Update:

I have been given Batch # 1130.

AWAITING TESTS

Tests Lab Procedure Batch Expected Notes

Y-DNA12 Y-DNA1-12 Markers 1130 11/11/2020 - 11/25/2020
farjanomar 10/19/2020 4:38:00 AM

Once i get my the results and they place me in cluster table, i will then ask the Somali Project Manager to transfer my youngest Snp from Y-SEQ

(E-BY203771).
Omaar 10/26/2020 3:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

What about E-Z21175? it is a new in the E-V32 Ytree and it is the sistar clade of E-Y17859.

Originally Posted by NetNomad

E-Z813:

:E-Z21175: Ethiopian and Kenyan? Will most Oromos have this subclade?

:E-Y17859: North Sahara and Somali? I added North Sahara because there is a Libyan and Egyptian with this? Maybe the Beja have this clade as well?

E-Y28701:

:E-V5933: Central Sahel - Chadic & Maban-Fur?

:E-Y17750: Ethiopian? Could those Arabs have Habesha ancestry from the Abyssinian occupation of South Arabia? A Tigray and a Yemeni match rather close.

Overall, it is clear that E-V32 must have been born somewhere around North Sudan. Only logical way to connect these distant groups and with the E-V12 guys upstream.

Originally Posted by Omaar

I have feelings that, some somali male may carry haplogroup E-Z21175 and they are probably assimilated Oromo. I think E-Y17859 is restricted to somalis, while E-Z21175 is restricted to Oromo. "The somali and Oromo people live in clans with special patterns of marriage and the Somali and Oromo people have complex, interwoven pedigrees.". It is also plausible that, the libyan, who share same haplogroup E-BY8085 with the somali, is somali in origin. His ancestors went to arabia long time ago, then with the spread of islam, he ended up to north Africa.

Originally Posted by drobbah

I doubt any Somali male will come out with an Oromo marker but the other way around is far more likely.Oromos did assimilate Western Somali clans and the Garre, they also integrated them pretty well while the clans that Somalis integrate always keep the Sheegaato title.We might find Oromo Y-DNA among those dual identity clans like the Jaarso,Akisho,Garre and the Gurgure.

We have now somali E-Z21175*. It is getting exciting

I hope he will upload his results to Yfull. Z21175* is found as an AncientDNA from Kenya.
NetNomad 10/27/2020 2:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

We have now somali E-Z21175*. It is getting exciting

I hope he will upload his results to Yfull. Z21175* is found as an AncientDNA from Kenya.

The more Somalis test, the more unique lineages will be found.

I guess this explains the higher TMRCA based of older STR studies (as some Somalis are E-Z21175) compared to the lower E-Y18629 TMRCA.
farjanomar 11/2/2020 7:11:00 AM

Hi Guys.

Things are getting interesting in my 23andme relative list. They have just added a J2 Somali, its my first to see a J2 Somali.

J-M67.
NetNomad 11/5/2020 8:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Hi Guys.

Things are getting interesting in my 23andme relative list. They have just added a J2 Somali, its my first to see a J2 Somali.

J-M67.

I got a J2 relative before. But he had trace amounts of South Asian..

I don't think there are any other Eurasian paternal lineages in Somalis prior to Islam other than T1 and J1.
diini95 11/26/2020 1:15:00 AM

Hi I have the same maternal Haplogroup as you and my Paternal haplogroup is E-V32 got my results today.
diini95 11/26/2020 3:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Hi Guys.

Things are getting interesting in my 23andme relative list. They have just added a J2 Somali, its my first to see a J2 Somali.

J-M67.

Hi I have the same maternal Haplogroup as you and my Paternal haplogroup is E-V32 got my results today.
NetNomad 11/26/2020 6:37:00 PM

Originally Posted by diini95

Hi

If you want to know which subclade of E-V32 you have, have a look at this Black Friday sale:

[Bad Link]

With that 30x whole genome test you can upload to yfull and get your further lineage.

Your username says Diini. Are you by any chance Reer Diini, Marehan?
diini95 11/27/2020 12:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

If you want to know which subclade of E-V32 you have, have a look at this Black Friday sale:

[Bad Link]

With that 30x whole genome test you can upload to yfull and get your further lineage.

Your username says Diini. Are you by any chance Reer Diini, Marehan?

Thanks I will check it out. No Im Reer aw Xasan then Reer aw Cilmi but within our clan there is Reer aw Diini.
farjanomar 11/27/2020 3:37:00 PM

Hi friends.

Sorry i was on holiday and did not have enough time to update you.

So, this is what happened: After receiving my Y12 results, i did not have matches, then i ordered Y37 and then the results

came-no matches again. felt little sad this time. Finally i said heck with money and savings, ordered both Y111 and Big Y700.
farjanomar 11/27/2020 3:40:00 PM

This my order:
diini95 11/27/2020 4:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

This my order:

Are you also testing your Mtdna haplogroup or just Y haplogroup?
NetNomad 11/27/2020 5:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by diini95

Thanks I will check it out. No Im Reer aw Xasan then Reer aw Cilmi but within our clan there is Reer aw Diini.

Ah okay. There aren't many people from your clan who have done Y-Chromosome tests. You might get a rare version of E-Y18629.

Originally Posted by diini95

Are you also testing your Mtdna haplogroup or just Y haplogroup?

His order is for Big Y. This only tests your Y-Chromosome. However, Dante Labs includes both. Maternal lineages are kind of uninformative for clan history research because every clan has multiple MTs and there isn't really a regional différentiation. The same ones are found all over. Moreover, you most likely will not get any matches on FamilyTreeDNA because only a few Somalis are on there. You can mostly only match against some academic samples from previous studies.
diini95 11/27/2020 6:03:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Ah okay. There aren't many people from your clan who have done Y-Chromosome tests. You might get a rare version of E-Y18629.

His order is for Big Y. This only tests your Y-Chromosome. However, Dante Labs includes both. Maternal lineages are kind of uninformative for clan history research because every clan has multiple MTs and there isn't really a regional différentiation. The same ones are found all over. Moreover, you most likely will not get any matches on FamilyTreeDNA because only a few Somalis are on there. You can mostly only match against some academic samples from previous studies.

I understand you are right there isn't many of my clan who have done Y chromosome Test
drobbah 11/30/2020 8:45:00 AM

How often does the yfull tree update? Still haven't received my age estimation...
farjanomar 12/1/2020 7:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

How often does the yfull tree update? Still haven't received my age estimation...

Its taking too long for update, don't know why.
farjanomar 12/1/2020 7:46:00 AM

Did you guys see the E-Z21175 positive Somali at Ftdna Somali Project?
farjanomar 12/1/2020 7:54:00 AM

Btw anyone interested to see my results, my kit# is B679308. I am in both Somali and E-35 Ftdna projects.
NetNomad 12/1/2020 6:24:00 PM

Sometimes yfull updates every two months. I think around 10 December they may publish the new tree.

I think the bigger their tree becomes, the longer it will take. Maybe they will qo quarterly next year.
drobbah 12/2/2020 1:25:00 PM

Did you guys notice the E-M35 ftdna project group together that Port Sudan sample with the the Saudi E-BY8100 samples who are all part of the same 7ubaish clan of the Hijaz.

I wonder if the Somali ancestor went to Sudan was assimilated by an Arab or Beja clan first and later some of his descendants went across to the Hijaz or the other possibility is the Somali ancestor arrived in the Hijaz and was assimilated by the Hubaish clan and later a descendant arrived in Sudan lol.

Also one of the three Qatari E-Z813 took the bigY it seems and is currently assigned to E-BY64848 which is a subclade of E-Z820 branch which also has one Somali member.

Edit: There's a new E-BY75676 individual on ftdna too, probably another Habar Awal or possible other Isaaq subclan
Omaar 12/3/2020 3:55:00 PM

My mistake!. It was same results, just in another dna project!.
drobbah 12/5/2020 2:14:00 PM

Is it possible E-Z813 originated in Egypt/Sudan instead of the Horn and represents a later push into the Horn of Africa? We have a confirmed Upper Egyptian Z813* and I have just come across another unconfirmed Z813+ Sudanese (might be Beja).
farjanomar 12/8/2020 2:44:00 PM

I have received all results except Big Y700. Just received Y111 tonight. The problem is my Terminal

SNp for now is only E-M35. Also i don't have matches so far.

Awaiting Lab Results:

Big Y-700 Y700 1143 02/08/2021 - 02/22/2021

Y-HAP-Backbone Backbone 1143 12/28/2020 - 01/11/2021
NetNomad 12/8/2020 10:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I have received all results except Big Y700. Just received Y111 tonight. The problem is my Terminal

SNp for now is only E-M35. Also i don't have matches so far.

Awaiting Lab Results:

Big Y-700 Y700 1143 02/08/2021 - 02/22/2021

Y-HAP-Backbone Backbone 1143 12/28/2020 - 01/11/2021

There is a small chance you are intermediary between E-Y163928 and E-Y163949 (potentially missing one or two SNPs of the Y163949 group).

But who knows for sure.. we shall see.
farjanomar 12/9/2020 9:04:00 AM

@NetNomad

Yeah bro, That makes sense, i am can of unique in my Group. Lets see when i get my full Big Y results.
NetNomad 12/11/2020 10:08:00 AM

@drobbah;

I e-mailed Yfull about why they haven't updated for so long and they told me that they will update in December.
farjanomar 12/15/2020 2:56:00 PM

Do you guys know why my Big Y Raw data is ready before they give me ny Big Y results? is't normal?

i was just looking at upgrade, and then i saw that.
farjanomar 12/15/2020 2:59:00 PM

Another new E-BY8081 Somali uploaded to Yfull tree today.
drobbah 12/15/2020 3:49:00 PM

Is E-Y18637 older or younger than the formation of the Somali ethnic group? And can we really be sure that E-Y17859 is a proto-Somali lineage when the only sample that is E-Y17859* is from an Upper Egyptian?
Farroukh 12/15/2020 10:34:00 PM

Y18629 as downstream of Y17859 is more suitable candidate for the role of the Progenitor (~3 kyo). Also it corellates with period of divergence of Lowland Eastern-Cushitic into Somali/Saho/Afar dialects.
drobbah 12/15/2020 11:26:00 PM

I agree but I also think E-Y18637 in particular represent those who were originally Af-Maay speakers (distinct language from Somali) while the other two branches represent the Northern E-V32 Af-Maxay Tidhi (regular Somali) Somali speakers (Darood E-Y163928 & possibly Dir E-BY155996)
farjanomar 12/16/2020 5:12:00 AM

@drobbah We will know more in the next 3-4 months inshaAllaah. So far, this month, many People have taken advantage of Dante Labs Sale.

We should have a good year in 2021 for Somali big Y tree. Imo at least 25-50 People. We did a lot Big Y awareness this year.
NetNomad 12/18/2020 6:38:00 PM

Looks like E-BY155996 is 850 ybp?
drobbah 12/19/2020 6:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Looks like E-BY155996 is 850 ybp?

I think it's older than that considering me and Almagest have 15 snps that we don't share.I think that tmrca is more appropriate for downstream E-BY75676
farjanomar 12/19/2020 8:36:00 AM

Finally Yfull tree update!
drobbah 12/19/2020 12:12:00 PM

Not really, they still haven't assigned me and Almagest under our correct subclade.
drobbah 12/21/2020 6:09:00 AM

So Yfull updated and fixed the tree and it seems it's official me and the Habar Awal share a tmrca roughly around 850 years ago.According to abtirsi I count 15 names to Muuse (father of Cisse & Sacad), so the geneological and yfull's tmrca doesn't really align.We clearly are one clan but our shared roots are older than we thought before, perhaps some names were forgotten when they forged a genealogy to Sheikh Isaaq. Interesting enough the Isaaq T formed roughly in the same time period, perhaps this was the point when the two camps decided to create a new political identity
Farroukh 12/21/2020 10:54:00 AM

Yfull's tree will be updated and corrected in two weeks. Now it has many mistakes due to system fail.

P. S. "Abtirsi" is Somalian word for "genealogical tree" (shajara in Arabic)?
drobbah 12/21/2020 11:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Yfull's tree will be updated and corrected in two weeks. Now it has many mistakes due to system fail.

P. S. "Abtirsi" is Somalian word for "genealogical tree" (shajara in Arabic)?

Abtirsi is the paternal lineage of a somali, it literally means ab (father) -tirsi (count)
NetNomad 12/22/2020 8:10:00 PM

On the live tree one of the new samples (YF79923) got a new subclade, E-Y227096. However, abtiris-wise should be closer to kit YF72457. The E-Y227096 SNP also has a 4/5 yfull rating, so unlikely to be statistical coincidence. It looks like even at this deep level that Somali abtiris may not perfectly match genetics.
farjanomar 12/23/2020 5:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

On the live tree one of the new samples (YF79923) got a new subclade, E-Y227096. However, abtiris-wise should be closer to kit YF72457. The E-Y227096 SNP also has a 4/5 yfull rating, so unlikely to be statistical coincidence. It looks like even at this deep level that Somali abtiris may not perfectly match genetics.

E-BY8081 had already a sub-clade on FTDNA-E-BY217865 could that be same as E-Y227096?

E-M35>M78>V12>V32>Y15945>Z813>Y17859>Y18629>E-Y18637>E-BY8081>E-BY217865.
drobbah 12/26/2020 3:09:00 AM

Has anyone seen Dir (non-Isaaq) E-V32 results? I've heard rumors of possible biyomaal E-V32.If those are true then I would assume the Ashraaf E-BY155996 individual perhaps got it from them as it is clear that there's no way he got it from the Hawiye as they fall under a different subclade.

E-BY75676 = Habar Awal/Isaaq E-V32, probably formed around the time Isaaq T seperated from Dir T.

Upstream E-BY155996 = possible minority E-V32 lineage among the Dir and spread south with arrival of the southern Dir???
NetNomad 12/26/2020 11:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Has anyone seen Dir (non-Isaaq) E-V32 results? I've heard rumors of possible biyomaal E-V32.If those are true then I would assume the Ashraaf E-BY155996 individual perhaps got it from them as it is clear that there's no way he got it from the Hawiye as they fall under a different subclade.

E-BY75676 = Habar Awal/Isaaq E-V32, probably formed around the time Isaaq T seperated from Dir T.

Upstream E-BY155996 = possible minority E-V32 lineage among the Dir and spread south with arrival of the southern Dir???

There are some of them on 23andMe. I think I have one as a distant cousin (Biyomaal), I'll try to recommend to him to do one of the cheaper Y-STRs as an intro to this.
farjanomar 12/27/2020 6:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Has anyone seen Dir (non-Isaaq) E-V32 results? I've heard rumors of possible biyomaal E-V32.If those are true then I would assume the Ashraaf E-BY155996 individual perhaps got it from them as it is clear that there's no way he got it from the Hawiye as they fall under a different subclade.

E-BY75676 = Habar Awal/Isaaq E-V32, probably formed around the time Isaaq T seperated from Dir T.

Upstream E-BY155996 = possible minority E-V32 lineage among the Dir and spread south with arrival of the southern Dir???

No Ethnic Somali Clan is going to be anything 100% weather E-V32 or T1. They have been so many assimilation/confederations since the founding of the

original Clans, as we can now see in the Somali Y-DNA results.

Just like there is going to be T Darood and hawiye minority, there is also going to be E-V32 Dir minority.
drobbah 12/27/2020 6:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

No Ethnic Somali Clan is going to be anything 100% weather E-V32 or T1. They have been so many assimilation/confederations since the founding of the

original Clans, as we can now see in the Somali Y-DNA results.

Just like there is going to be T Darood and hawiye minority, there is also going to be E-V32 Dir minority.

There hasn't been a confirmed Darood T just like there hasn't been a single confirmed Isaaq/Dir J1, we are not all the same and that's not what I am talking about anyways.I'm trying to see if there's a dir specific E-V32 subclade but we will need the minority E-V32 from Dir clans to get tested and we still need the non-HA Isaaq E-V32 carriers to take the BigY. E-BY155996 seems like a good candidate to potentially be the E-V32 lineage found among some of the Southern Dir.
farjanomar 12/27/2020 8:31:00 AM

Yes, Darood have been comfimed to have some T. It was posted on 23andme 4 months a go a Darood-Ogaden T.

[Bad link]

I did post the link about 4 months. And i was the one who asked him if he is Isaaq or Dir since he got T.

he is our conversation:

4 months ago

Very cool results, i also got my results today, but i am E-V32 Somali, you belong to

T Somali. Are you Dir or Isaaq? They got the most T1A.

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ladavirus9

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4 months ago

I’m darod.

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Interestingwukaa4166

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4 months ago

Cool. I am also Darood-Harti-Geesi guule.

what section?

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ladavirus9

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4 months ago

I’m an Og.

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Interestingwukaa4166

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Cool.

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farjanomar 12/27/2020 8:46:00 AM

Plus, their was a study in Shilabo town Somali Ethiopia region, where 50% those tested were HG T. I am assuming that town

is Populated by Darood-ogaden. I haven't seen it, but it was mentioned here. I am still looking for it. Although while looking for it, i saw

the Djibouti study.

Darood being maternally Dir, there have lot history together. It's logical for some Dir to have been assimilated.
diini95 12/27/2020 9:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Plus, their was a study in Shilabo town Somali Ethiopia region, where 50% those tested were HG T. I am assuming that town

is Populated by Darood-ogaden. I haven't seen it, but it was mentioned here. I am still looking for it. Although while looking for it, i saw

the Djibouti study.

Darood being maternally Dir, there have lot history together. It's logical for some Dir to have been assimilated.

I believe My father was born in Shilabo most of my clan live around that region.
drobbah 12/27/2020 10:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Plus, their was a study in Shilabo town Somali Ethiopia region, where 50% those tested were HG T. I am assuming that town

is Populated by Darood-ogaden. I haven't seen it, but it was mentioned here. I am still looking for it. Although while looking for it, i saw

the Djibouti study.

Darood being maternally Dir, there have lot history together. It's logical for some Dir to have been assimilated.

It seems Darood are more of the assimilators unlike Dir or Isaaq.Entire Isaaq subclans seem to be more or less homogeneous in their paternal haplogroups, this is why I think the E-V32 Dir will be of my subclade and so will the other Isaaq non-Habar Awal E-V32 males.That would make the Dir clan exclusively two lineages with males like myself probably being assimilated once the Dir T males arrived from the Arabian Peninsula to the Northern Somali seaboard.
NetNomad 12/27/2020 11:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It seems Darood are more of the assimilators unlike Dir or Isaaq.Entire Isaaq subclans seem to be more or less homogeneous in their paternal haplogroups, this is why I think the E-V32 Dir will be of my subclade and so will the other Isaaq non-Habar Awal E-V32 males.That would make the Dir clan exclusively two lineages with males like myself probably being assimilated once the Dir T males arrived from the Arabian Peninsula to the Northern Somali seaboard.

If I were to speculate, I think that the Ogaden/Absame sub-clan probably has the most different genetic sub-lineages among the Darod. The other ones are generally more geographically concentrated and have less of a expansion history. It would not surprise me if some Northwestern Ogadens/Absames were E-BY155996-related.
drobbah 1/4/2021 8:37:00 AM

They finally updated the correct tmrca's, Sa'ad Musa & Isa Musa have a tmrca of 800 ybp and it seems the Isaaq T's tmrca got older, they now have a tmrca of 1000 ybp
NetNomad 1/5/2021 10:35:00 AM

There is a new E-Y18637* guy. Looks like E-Y18637 is probably the most frequent direct subclade of E-Y18629 if I were to guess from the little data we have.
farjanomar 1/5/2021 10:16:00 PM

@NetNomad

Does that mean, he got basal E-Y18637 and, does not have downstream SNP?
drobbah 1/5/2021 10:21:00 PM

All the current subclades are about 2700 year old.Does this age make sense according to linguistics?

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Awale 1/6/2021 12:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

All the current subclades are about 2700 year old.Does this age make sense according to linguistics?

No, not really. From what I recall, Af-Maxaa (Somali proper of the four main clans) cut off from Af-Maay just like 1,500-2,000ybp. So if one is trying to tie all the Somali E-Z813 sublineages to Somali linguistics one might expect a TMRCA no older than 2,000ybp.

Hidden Content

"There is no satisfying a Somali with meat. He cannot have sufficient. If a man would give all the substance of a buck to him it would utterly be condemned"

Hidden Content
drobbah 1/6/2021 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

No, not really. From what I recall, Af-Maxaa (Somali proper of the four main clans) cut off from Af-Maay just like 1,500-2,000ybp. So if one is trying to tie all the Somali E-Z813 sublineages to Somali linguistics one might expect a TMRCA no older than 2,000ybp.

The ages of the Somali subclades on yfull will probably get younger and align more with linguistics.I think E-Y18637 will represent the proto-Somaal (Af-maxay and af-maay) with E-BY192465 representing the af-maay and their Northern Somalianized descendants, the other two branches found in Isaaq (possibly Dir) and many Daroods will represent the local cushitic inhabitants of modern Somaliland who were perhaps also Somalianized.We have evidence of non-ethnic Somalis living in places like Awdal/Gabiley and possible near the Hargeisa area (Aw-Barkhadle) like the Harla who could have also been cushitic people themselves.Obviously this is all just speculation and I have nothing to back this lol
Awale 1/6/2021 6:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The ages of the Somali subclades on yfull will probably get younger and align more with linguistics.I think E-Y18637 will represent the proto-Somaal (Af-maxay and af-maay) with E-BY192465 representing the af-maay and their Northern Somalianized descendants, the other two branches found in Isaaq (possibly Dir) and many Daroods will represent the local cushitic inhabitants of modern Somaliland who were perhaps also Somalianized.We have evidence of non-ethnic Somalis living in places like Awdal/Gabiley and possible near the Hargeisa area (Aw-Barkhadle) like the Harla who could have also been cushitic people themselves.Obviously this is all just speculation and I have nothing to back this lol

Of course, brother. I was speculating a whole lot too when I first mentioned all this. It's not totally baseless, as you know. There is some linguistics and possible auDNA signals to back it up but we'll see if the Y-DNA can someday align with it. I really wish I had the cash to sample at least 100 dudes from every subclan in Somaliweyn and resolve all this pronto but for now we'll have to wait.

Hidden Content

"There is no satisfying a Somali with meat. He cannot have sufficient. If a man would give all the substance of a buck to him it would utterly be condemned"

Hidden Content
Deftextra 1/6/2021 7:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

Of course, brother. I was speculating a whole lot too when I first mentioned all this. It's not totally baseless, as you know. There is some linguistics and possible auDNA signals to back it up but we'll see if the Y-DNA can someday align with it. I really wish I had the cash to sample at least 100 dudes from every subclan in Somaliweyn and resolve all this pronto but for now we'll have to wait.

Is there any information on when Af-Marka (Sometimes called af-mahdoonthe) evolved as its own language? It is spoken exclusively in Marka on my mothers side of the family. It is sometimes referred to as a dialect of Somali, but grammatically they can be very different and are not mutually intelligible. Academically it is referred to as Af-Ashraaf but we don't call it that.

Last edited by Deftextra; 01-06-2021 at 12:47 AM.
Awale 1/6/2021 8:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

Is there any information on when Af-Marka (Sometimes called af-mahdoonthe) evolved as its own language? It is spoken exclusively in Marka on my mothers side of the family. It is sometimes referred to as a dialect of Somali, but grammatically they can be very different and are not mutually intelligible. Academically it is referred to as Af-Ashraaf but we don't call it that.

I have seen it around in academia as Af-Ashraaf as well but have not quite seen it in any trees or its divergence dates being divulged. I'll email some people like Diriye Abdullahi and Ehret and get back to you when they reply and do some digging in the meantime.

Hidden Content

"There is no satisfying a Somali with meat. He cannot have sufficient. If a man would give all the substance of a buck to him it would utterly be condemned"

Hidden Content
drobbah 1/8/2021 5:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

Of course, brother. I was speculating a whole lot too when I first mentioned all this. It's not totally baseless, as you know. There is some linguistics and possible auDNA signals to back it up but we'll see if the Y-DNA can someday align with it. I really wish I had the cash to sample at least 100 dudes from every subclan in Somaliweyn and resolve all this pronto but for now we'll have to wait.

If Somalis originated in or around the Southern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia and then migrated North most probably to the Sanaag region.Do you think this is the point when Somalis adopted the camel and the old non-arabic Arabian loanwords? If that's the case why are the Rendille also primarily camel herders with some of the same core of old Arabian loanwords with the black headed Somali sheep doesn't this negate this southern hypothesis that Somalis and our linguistic cousins originated in South Somalia or Southern Ethiopia?
NetNomad 1/14/2021 9:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

If Somalis originated in or around the Southern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia and then migrated North most probably to the Sanaag region.Do you think this is the point when Somalis adopted the camel and the old non-arabic Arabian loanwords? If that's the case why are the Rendille also primarily camel herders with some of the same core of old Arabian loanwords with the black headed Somali sheep doesn't this negate this southern hypothesis that Somalis and our linguistic cousins originated in South Somalia or Southern Ethiopia?

If Southern Somalis primarily only get E-Y18637 and there is more E-Y18629* in North-Central Somalis then the South-to-North Somali language origin hypothesis has serious troubles.
drobbah 1/16/2021 9:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

If Southern Somalis primarily only get E-Y18637 and there is more E-Y18629* in North-Central Somalis then the South-to-North Somali language origin hypothesis has serious troubles.

I think the proto-Somaloids (all macro Somali languages/Eastern Omo Tana) broke off the Konso-Oromo node in Ethiopia and migrated to Eastern Somaliland in a similar route of how the Akichu/Akisho arrived in Somaliland and from there various waves re-expanded south from Sanaag 2000 years ago with the main push probably by E-Y18637 macro-Somali speakers.I think only with the arrival of other Daroods and possibly Dir clans in the last few centuries is when E-Y163928 (darood) & E-BY155996 (minority dir lineage) arrived alongside the T-BY181210 Dir Somalis.I would assume the Rendille would also carry the T-BY181210 like the Af maxay Somalis but will form a new subclade just upstream of them and perhaps their E-V32 will be a mix of the Oromo-Konso E-Y161124 and E-Y18637.

The route of the Oromo migrations in the 16th century

Last edited by drobbah; 01-16-2021 at 02:26 PM.
farjanomar 2/9/2021 1:38:00 PM

Hi Guys! After long wait, i have finally received my FTDNA Terminal Clade. (same as with YSEQ result)

Last edited by farjanomar; 02-09-2021 at 08:08 AM.
drobbah 2/11/2021 3:28:00 AM

I have a str match with 37 strs with a similar genetic distance as my Sacad Muuse matches (difference of 3), he is from the Bariq tribe of SW Arabia.How accurate is 37 strs in predicting genetic relationships?
farjanomar 2/12/2021 4:50:00 AM

@drobbah.

According to what i read, and what i observed, Strs are not 100% reliable, especially under 111 strs. That's why, People need Big Y

and SNPs resting to have 100% accuracy.

As you can see, Somali Strs are very close. even with the ones with different Sub-clades.
NetNomad 2/16/2021 2:51:00 AM

Speculation:

The Mudug kit in E-Y227096 (Omar Mahmoud) could have gotten the Osman Mahmoud sub-lineage from this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Hobyo

Last edited by NetNomad; 02-15-2021 at 07:56 PM.
drobbah 2/16/2021 8:11:00 AM

They increased the Habar Awal tmrca from 800 to 900.I honestly think if that Ashraaf dude uploaded his results, HA tmrca would drop significantly like the Darood tmrca did
farjanomar 2/16/2021 10:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Speculation:

The Mudug kit in E-Y227096 (Omar Mahmoud) could have gotten the Osman Mahmoud sub-lineage from this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Hobyo

I was wondering, what was happening with E-BY8081 sub-lineages. Omar and Osman with the same sub-lineage.
farjanomar 2/16/2021 10:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

They increased the Habar Awal tmrca from 800 to 900.I honestly think if that Ashraaf dude uploaded his results, HA tmrca would drop significantly like the Darood tmrca did

Yeah, They will keep changing the tmrca. I will add to the tmrca fun next week, when ftdna is ready with my BAM file.
farjanomar 2/16/2021 10:33:00 AM

Its really disappointing, that, Non Isaaq and Harti-Somali Big Y tree is not growing or mostly non-existent.
NetNomad 2/18/2021 4:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Its really disappointing, that, Non Isaaq and Harti-Somali Big Y tree is not growing or mostly non-existent.

Abtirsi culture is stronger in North and Central Somalis than in South Somalis, could be the reason. Prices are also still an issue.
farjanomar 2/20/2021 10:57:00 PM

They have just added me to Yfull live tree ID #YF81361
drobbah 2/21/2021 8:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Its really disappointing, that, Non Isaaq and Harti-Somali Big Y tree is not growing or mostly non-existent.

Even Isaaqs need more yfull results.So far only the two largest clans which are the Habar Awal & Garxajis have taken the BigY.We still need Habar Jeclo,Arap,Ayub and the mythical eldest brother of the clan Tol Jeclo.There's probably more E-V32 hiding among these clans and possibly other haplogroups.Habar Jeclo for sure has some E-V32 with one sample that is E-Z813 although he never took the BigY but judging by strs and sharing the first value of 12, I think he would be E-BY155996
Megatron 2/21/2021 8:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Even Isaaqs need more yfull results.So far only the two largest clans which are the Habar Awal & Garxajis have taken the BigY.We still need Habar Jeclo,Arap,Ayub and the mythical eldest brother of the clan Tol Jeclo.There's probably more E-V32 hiding among these clans and possibly other haplogroups.Habar Jeclo for sure has some E-V32 with one sample that is E-Z813 although he never took the BigY but judging by strs and sharing the first value of 12, I think he would be E-BY155996

I’m E-V32 Isaac.
Megatron 2/21/2021 8:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Abtirsi culture is stronger in North and Central Somalis than in South Somalis, could be the reason. Prices are also still an issue.

New revelations from genetic tests will not change the clan system nor the perception of Somalis.
drobbah 2/21/2021 9:20:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I’m E-V32 Isaac.

Which subclan if you don't mind me asking?
Megatron 2/21/2021 9:37:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Which subclan if you don't mind me asking?

I’m HJ.
Megatron 2/22/2021 1:10:00 AM

I plan to do the BigY. I believe Isaac is equally split between E-V32 and T1a. All the major Isaac subclans contain E-V32 even those who are predominantly T1a.

Drobbah,

Can’t send PM at the moment. I have additional info.
drobbah 2/22/2021 1:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I plan to do the BigY. I believe Isaac is equally split between E-V32 and T1a. All the major Isaac subclans contain E-V32 even those who are predominantly T1a.

Drobbah,

Can’t send PM at the moment. I have additional info.

Right now we have a Sanbuur who is E-V16 (non cushitic haplogroup),I've heard of Arap of E-V22 as well.I think HA is the only dominant E-V32 subclan with your subclan being mixed between E-V32 & T.Ayuub and Tol Jeclo also seem to have T aswell.Isaaq is dominated by T (2/3 of the clan) while E-V32 males are probably a third (HA + some HJ) of the clan.
Megatron 2/22/2021 1:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Right now we have a Sanbuur who is E-V16 (non cushitic haplogroup),I've heard of Arap of E-V22 as well.I think HA is the only dominant E-V32 subclan with your subclan being mixed between E-V32 & T.Ayuub and Tol Jeclo also seem to have T aswell.Isaaq is dominated by T (2/3 of the clan) while E-V32 males are probably a third (HA + some HJ) of the clan.

You’re right, E-V32 is the dominant lineage in HA.

It’s also important to note E-V32 among Garhajis as well. Both Eidagalla and HY. Among the HY E-V32 has been confirmed in individual cases from different sub clans so it’s not a coincidence.

Apart from E-V22 and E-V16, there’s also J1 Isaac.

My own personal theory is that Isaac is a pre Adal confederation initially created by two major divisions who were related to the ruling Walashma dynasty respectively. There are manuscripts verifying this relation. The minor lineages (E-V22, E-V16, J1) could be from soldiers, merchants or scholars etc incorporated when a cohesive clan identity emerged.

Last edited by Megatron; 02-21-2021 at 07:16 PM.
drobbah 2/22/2021 4:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

You’re right, E-V32 is the dominant lineage in HA.

It’s also important to note E-V32 among Garhajis as well. Both Eidagalla and HY. Among the HY E-V32 has been confirmed in individual cases from different sub clans so it’s not a coincidence.

I haven't seen any but I can believe CG can have a very small minority of E-V32 but I doubt the HY have any.HY were very strict and never absorbed others.

Apart from E-V22 and E-V16, there’s also J1 Isaac.

Never seen any J1 isaaq.Where did you find this J1 individual and what clan did he belong to?

My own personal theory is that Isaac is a pre Adal confederation initially created by two major divisions who were related to the ruling Walashma dynasty respectively. There are manuscripts verifying this relation. The minor lineages (E-V22, E-V16, J1) could be from soldiers, merchants or scholars etc incorporated when a cohesive clan identity emerged.

Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Ayuub & Arap) were mentioned in the Futuh and were one of the first clans to arrive to the Imam.So clearly this Isaaq and Habar Magaadle identity was pre-16th century.The Walashma were Harla or Harla related people that lived in Western Somaliland and were probably not related to us.We are probably an early medieval Somali expansion group from Eastern Somaliland.The Isaaq tombs are in Maydh and the tomb of the founder of Habar Awal is in Jidali (currently Dhulbahante town) all in Sanaag.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 2/22/2021 5:03:00 AM

@Megatron

Welcome sxb!
Megatron 2/22/2021 5:42:00 AM

There are at least 5 E-V32 HY on 23andme and they’re from different subclans. So far there’s only one known E-V32 Eidagalla.

The individual is HJ from Burao and carries J-M267. There are also rumors of a J-P58 Isaac.

According to this Harari manuscript the Imam was the maternal uncle of Habar Magadle which explains why they were the first to answer his call. The Habar Magadle were also affiliated with Omar Walashma. The founder of Ifat. It’s not a coincidence that Siyara, the ancient capital of Ifat, is still inhabited by Isaac to this day.

The tombs do not really prove anything because new tombs have been constructed in recent times for other patriarchs.

Btw, the Isaac clan used to be a coastal clan until quite recently. The eastern boundary of their land was most likely the coastal areas of western Sanaag.

Last edited by Megatron; 02-22-2021 at 05:55 PM.
Megatron 2/22/2021 5:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Megatron

Welcome sxb!

Thanks bro.
drobbah 2/22/2021 6:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

There are at least 5 E-V32 HY on 23andme and they’re from different subclans. So far there’s only one known E-V32 Eidagalla.

The individual is HJ from Burao and carries J-M267. There are also rumors of a J-P58 Isaac.

According to this Harari manuscript the Imam was the maternal uncle of Habar Magadle which explains why they were the first to call his answer. The Habar Magadle were also affiliated with Omar Walashma. The founder of Ifat. It’s not a coincidence that Siyara, the ancient capital of Ifat, is still inhabited by Isaac to this day.

The tombs do not really prove anything because new tombs have been constructed in recent times for other patriarchs.

Btw, the Isaac clan used to be a coastal clan until quite recently. The eastern boundary of their land was most likely the coastal areas of western Sanaag.

The Futuh does mention that Maydh was Harti territory, so we were clearly more within the territory of Adal plus the first capital of Adal (Dakkar) is probably the site of Aw-Barkhadle where the progenitor of the Walashma dynasty is said to be buried.Sada in her recent book said she found ruins of ancient walled city nearby.

Maybe the HA E-BY155996 and also the E-V22 Arap are Somalianized Harla or local cushites who joined these Dir T1a Somalis to create a medieval clan.In the Futuh the Harla and Somalis are closely aligned although there was ethnic tensions between the two ethnicities.I think even the Harti

E-Y163928 seems to be Somalianized people as well.E-Y18637 is probably the true proto-Somali lineage and has the tmrca to back the claim as well.

I'm not surprised the J-P58 is from HJ considering the majority of the J1 found among Somalis are Hartis anyways plus I heard there was a clan of Yemenis who were recently assimilated among the HJ as well.J-P58 is the quintessential Arabian J1 clade unlike the Ethio-Semitic Horner restricted P56.

I have heard the rumors of a few Eastern HY with E-V32 but have never seen them, it's good that they can be confirmed.Perhaps they were assimilated Harti as well.The CG E-V32 probably belongs to the HA/Isaaq branch just like HA Gabriel's T belongs to the Dir/Isaaq branch

Last edited by drobbah; 02-21-2021 at 11:13 PM.
drobbah 2/22/2021 6:16:00 AM

The Harari manuscript is inaccurate as the Imam had nothing to do with the Walashma dynasty.His ancestors were Beja who migrated and set up shop in Hubat during the reign of Sacad-diin.His own brother during the Jihad era was a Sultan of a small principality in Shewa and later joined his brother, he was called Suldaan Maxamed.
NetNomad 2/22/2021 10:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

New revelations from genetic tests will not change the clan system nor the perception of Somalis.

Might happen in a generation. Now it is completely unknown except to a small number of people.
Megatron 2/22/2021 1:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Futuh does mention that Maydh was Harti territory, so we were clearly more within the territory of Adal plus the first capital of Adal (Dakkar) is probably the site of Aw-Barkhadle where the progenitor of the Walashma dynasty is said to be buried.Sada in her recent book said she found ruins of ancient walled city nearby.

Maybe the HA E-BY155996 and also the E-V22 Arap are Somalianized Harla or local cushites who joined these Dir T1a Somalis to create a medieval clan.In the Futuh the Harla and Somalis are closely aligned although there was ethnic tensions between the two ethnicities.I think even the Harti

E-Y163928 seems to be Somalianized people as well.E-Y18637 is probably the true proto-Somali lineage and has the tmrca to back the claim as well.

I'm not surprised the J-P58 is from HJ considering the majority of the J1 found among Somalis are Hartis anyways plus I heard there was a clan of Yemenis who were recently assimilated among the HJ as well.J-P58 is the quintessential Arabian J1 clade unlike the Ethio-Semitic Horner restricted P56.

I have heard the rumors of a few Eastern HY with E-V32 but have never seen them, it's good that they can be confirmed.Perhaps they were assimilated Harti as well.The CG E-V32 probably belongs to the HA/Isaaq branch just like HA Gabriel's T belongs to the Dir/Isaaq branch

What the Harari manuscript confirms is that the Imam was the maternal uncle of Habar Magaadle, that Imam Ahmed and the Habar Magaadle commander Ahmed Guray were conflated into one character and that Habar Magaadle are also affiliated with the Walashma dynasty.

The Imam could very well be Beja. I’ve read somewhere that he was of mixed Beja/Arab origin.

I think all the Isaac E-V32 will belong to the same subclade just like their HG-T Isaac counterparts. One of the HY E-V32 is from the Ali Said subclan and they live in the middle of HY from Adaadley, Oodweyne, Ga’an Libah to Burao in central Somaliland. It’s impossible that it was acquired through assimilation from another non Isaac clan. Hopefully the BigY will shed light on this inshallah. It would also be interesting to know if Arap are predominantly E-V22. Then we have E-V16 found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis/Saudis. It would be interesting to know if the Sanbur brother belong to a Somali specific clade or Ethio, Yemeni/Saudi one.
Megatron 2/22/2021 1:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Might happen in a generation. Now it is completely unknown except to a small number of people.

True.
Atlas 2/22/2021 7:19:00 PM

I think I may know a possible E-V22 HY individual and I've just messaged him to confirm his subclan. He is, so far, the only E-V22 relative that I know of.

Edit: His subclan is actually Arap.

Last edited by Atlas; 02-22-2021 at 01:08 PM.
drobbah 2/23/2021 2:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

What the Harari manuscript confirms is that the Imam was the maternal uncle of Habar Magaadle, that Imam Ahmed and the Habar Magaadle commander Ahmed Guray were conflated into one character and that Habar Magaadle are also affiliated with the Walashma dynasty.

The Futuh Al Habasha did a good job of commenting about the blood-relations with the Imam.For example Geri Koombe's leader was married to the sister of the Imam.It didn't once mention that the Habar Magaadle chief was his nephew.Perhaps this was info not known to Shihabudiin (Arab Faqih), who knows!

The Imam could very well be Beja. I’ve read somewhere that he was of mixed Beja/Arab origin.

He's Beja (Balaw) according to the Futuh and came from a place north of Tigre.I wouldn't be surprised if the Imam was an E-V32 carrier considering how prevalent this haplogroup is among the modern Beja & Tigre.

I think all the Isaac E-V32 will belong to the same subclade just like their HG-T Isaac counterparts. One of the HY E-V32 is from the Ali Said subclan and they live in the middle of HY from Adaadley, Oodweyne, Ga’an Libah to Burao in central Somaliland. It’s impossible that it was acquired through assimilation from another non Isaac clan. Hopefully the BigY will shed light on this inshallah. It would also be interesting to know if Arap are predominantly E-V22. Then we have E-V16 found in some Ethiopians and Yemenis/Saudis. It would be interesting to know if the Sanbur brother belong to a Somali specific clade or Ethio, Yemeni/Saudi one.

If Western HY are getting minor E-V32 then it's probably the Isaaq/local variant of the region, you have to remember also an Ashraaf individual in the South also carries it aswell.E-V16 Saudis/Yemenis are just descendants of Horners and is an indigenous pre-Cushitic haplogroup of the Horn, the Sanbuurs male ancestors were survivors lol. Hopefully that E-V16 individual also takes the BigY alongside the other Isaaqs.The Dir E-V32 also need to take the BigY in order to get a better picture as their probable E-BY155996 subclade is currently 3000-2700 years old,

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Megatron 2/23/2021 3:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Futuh Al Habasha did a good job of commenting about the blood-relations with the Imam.For example Geri Koombe's leader was married to the sister of the Imam.It didn't once mention that the Habar Magaadle chief was his nephew.Perhaps this was info not known to Shihabudiin (Arab Faqih), who knows!

He's Beja (Balaw) according to the Futuh and came from a place north of Tigre.I wouldn't be surprised if the Imam was an E-V32 carrier considering how prevalent this haplogroup is among the modern Beja & Tigre.

If Western HY are getting minor E-V32 then it's probably the Isaaq/local variant of the region, you have to remember also an Ashraaf individual in the South also carries it aswell.E-V16 Saudis/Yemenis are just descendants of Horners and is an indigenous pre-Cushitic haplogroup of the Horn, the Sanbuurs male ancestors were survivors lol. Hopefully that E-V16 individual also takes the BigY alongside the other Isaaqs.The Dir E-V32 also need to take the BigY in order to get a better picture as their probable E-BY155996 subclade is currently 3000-2700 years old,

The additional info describing the relation between the Imam and Habar Magadle is not from the Futuh, it’s based on old Harari (BaAlawi) manuscripts.

E-V16 is associated with the indigenous hunter gatherers of the Horn and we know that they crossed the Bab el-Mandeb strait in prehistoric times. What if the Sanbur acquired the lineage through a recent back migration?

BTW, I have a Magadle relative that I want to test.
farjanomar 2/23/2021 4:04:00 AM

How much is Futah al habash book? I want buy it, what is fair price. Amazon says A-Hard Cover $70-80, B-Paper bag $30-35.
Megatron 2/25/2021 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

How much is Futah al habash book? I want buy it, what is fair price. Amazon says A-Hard Cover $70-80, B-Paper bag $30-35.

It’s a good investment if you’re interested in Somali history and the history of the greater Horn.
NetNomad 2/28/2021 1:45:00 AM

Noticed age data is only lacking for the E tree, maybe because it is now one of the biggest trees they got?

https://www.yfull.com/tree-build-stats/
drobbah 3/3/2021 2:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Noticed age data is only lacking for the E tree, maybe because it is now one of the biggest trees they got?

https://www.yfull.com/tree-build-stats/

Yfull responded on their site and said it will be fixed by next update.

Show Spoiler

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
drobbah 3/6/2021 11:27:00 AM

Just seen a Somali E-L677 and an Isaaq reer Hargeisa E-M78*.Don't know which subclan he belongs to but based on his grandparents birthplaces his either Habar Awal (Cisse Muuse),Garxajis (probably HY) or Arap

Also found an E-M183 (Berber origin) Somali who has traces amount of Arab Peninsular and Indian ancestry

Last edited by drobbah; 03-06-2021 at 04:34 AM.
drobbah 3/7/2021 12:02:00 AM

The E-M78* dude is Arap from Hargeisa.
Megatron 3/7/2021 10:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Just seen a Somali E-L677 and an Isaaq reer Hargeisa E-M78*.Don't know which subclan he belongs to but based on his grandparents birthplaces his either Habar Awal (Cisse Muuse),Garxajis (probably HY) or Arap

Also found an E-M183 (Berber origin) Somali who has traces amount of Arab Peninsular and Indian ancestry

Do you know if the E-L677 individual is a northerner or from the northern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia? Plenty of E-L677 results among the Arap (Isaac).
drobbah 3/8/2021 5:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

Do you know if the E-L677 individual is a northerner or from the northern parts of the Somali region of Ethiopia? Plenty of E-L677 results among the Arap (Isaac).

Tha vast majority of my Somali matches are SL/PL,Ethiopia & Djibouti.I seen the other Arab E-L677 as a match as well.I think this E-L677 is Arap aswell but I will send a message asking him to confirm, hopefully he will respond.
farjanomar 3/9/2021 3:56:00 AM

@drobbah@megatron.

Do you guys think, Arap E-V22 is looking like a trend, or is outlier?
drobbah 3/9/2021 7:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@drobbah@megatron.

Do you guys think, Arap E-V22 is looking like a trend, or is outlier?

Majority of the Arab are probably E-V22 but there are probably others like the E-M78* Arab dude
drobbah 3/9/2021 10:58:00 AM

A new sample from Sool uploaded on yfull under the Oromo-Konsoid branch of E-Z813 (E-Z21175*).
farjanomar 3/9/2021 12:53:00 PM

i think, he is the same guy on ftdna Somali project z-820 dhulbahante.
drobbah 3/9/2021 1:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

i think, he is the same guy on ftdna Somali project z-820 dhulbahante.

Interesting, there's a few Qataris also under that same branch
NetNomad 3/9/2021 10:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

A new sample from Sool uploaded on yfull under the Oromo-Konsoid branch of E-Z813 (E-Z21175*).

Hmm, I am thinking that not all of E-Z21175 / E-Z820 is Oromoid in origin, perhaps only E-Y161124 is and there are rare Somaloid and (originally) South Cushitic branches in E-Z21175 / E-Z820 as well. We shall see what the TMRCAs bring.
NetNomad 3/9/2021 10:56:00 PM

Any of you guys seen northern social minority* Y results? I think they may harbour some interesting rare lineages / sublineages.

*As in Yibir, Gaboye, Madhiban etc.
farjanomar 3/10/2021 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Any of you guys seen northern social minority* Y results? I think they may harbour some interesting rare lineages / sublineages.

*As in Yibir, Gaboye, Madhiban etc.

I think, its going be difficult to find, Coz, they are themselves confederations, and might not have one Clan origin, maybe the Yibir might have one Clan origin, because of their presumed Asiatic origin.

They are there on 23andme, through sheegato though.

Last edited by farjanomar; 03-09-2021 at 10:47 PM.
drobbah 3/10/2021 6:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think, its going be difficult to find, Coz, they are themselves confederations, and might not have one Clan origin, maybe the Yibir might have one Clan origin, because of their presumed Asiatic origin.

They are there on 23andme, through sheegato though.

These clans are confederation and Darood isn't it? And how is it difficult for a Tumaal or Yibir to take a 23andme test? There's a decent amount of them in the diaspora
farjanomar 3/10/2021 6:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Hmm, I am thinking that not all of E-Z21175 / E-Z820 is Oromoid in origin, perhaps only E-Y161124 is and there are rare Somaloid and (originally) South Cushitic branches in E-Z21175 / E-Z820 as well. We shall see what the TMRCAs bring.

Yeah bro. It will be very interesting to see TMRCAs.

Did you guys notice, Oromos are Our SNP cousins of E-Z813, Not our SNP Siblings of E-17859, but the guys up in Sudan and Egypt are closer.

Does that mean both E-17859 and E-Z21175 were born in Sudan/Egypt?

Do you guys think, other Cushites carry the E-813, other than Somali E-17859 and Oromo E-Z21175?
farjanomar 3/10/2021 7:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

These clans are confederation and Darood isn't it? And how is it difficult for a Tumaal or Yibir to take a 23andme test? There's a decent amount of them in the diaspora

Not that deep bro. I am friends with them. Maybe i should have phrased another way. I was responding to OP. I also missed Part 1 about, if they have some other unique Y DNA, just went to a second part.

This is what i meant:

Part One.

I don't think, they carry anything other than Y Dna that Somalis have.

Part two.

Just like the Macro Clans are Confederations, even the Sub-Clans. The minority Clans are no different, especially after Big Y tests.

Last edited by farjanomar; 03-10-2021 at 12:59 AM.
drobbah 3/10/2021 8:54:00 AM

I think the Yibir and Tumaal will have some Ethiopian specific lineages but also some lineages common to Somalis and the major clans (like the Isaaq)
NetNomad 3/18/2021 5:27:00 PM

It looks like E-Y17859 has a few more SNPs added to yfull because of the E-Z21175* Somali upload, this might lower the TMRCA of E-Y17859.
drobbah 3/28/2021 10:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

It looks like E-Y17859 has a few more SNPs added to yfull because of the E-Z21175* Somali upload, this might lower the TMRCA of E-Y17859.

If it gets younger then the Egyptian E-Y17859* is a Horner back-migrant to NE Africa

Last edited by drobbah; 03-28-2021 at 06:25 PM.
NetNomad 3/29/2021 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

If it gets younger than that Egyptian E-Y17859* is a Horner back-migrant to NE Africa

Could be. Most North Sudanese and Eritrean V32 being E-FGC14382 / E-Y193388 is kind of confusing. How E-Y17859* got to Egypt is a bit of a mystery.
drobbah 3/29/2021 12:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Could be. Most North Sudanese and Eritrean V32 being E-FGC14382 / E-Y193388 is kind of confusing. How E-Y17859* got to Egypt is a bit of a mystery.

There's a North Sudanese and an Egyptian E-Z813* on ftdna but I think anyone that is downstream of Z813 is ultimately of East Cushitic origin tbh
farjanomar 4/2/2021 2:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a North Sudanese and an Egyptian E-Z813* on ftdna but I think anyone that is downstream of Z813 is ultimately of East Cushitic origin tbh

Yeah, I think all those E-Z813 in Egypt and Sudan are East Cushitic tribes left behind.
farjanomar 4/2/2021 2:20:00 AM

Good Info:

YSEQ has now almost all the Somali SNPs for their E-V12 Panel($88), but the one missing can be added, if one requested, as yhey say on their website.

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=32767

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-01-2021 at 08:26 PM.

Reason: wrong one
drobbah 4/2/2021 4:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yeah, I think all those E-Z813 in Egypt and Sudan are East Cushitic tribes left behind.

I don't think the E-Z813* are East Cushitic, but they are probably remnants of the proto-cushites, I think that we will find more E-Z813* Egyptians & Sudanese but the vast majority of the Beja for example I predict will fall under that Northern Horn/Nubian subclade of E-V32 tho.

That E-Y17859 Egyptian on the other hand is definitely a back-migrant descendant of an ancient East Cushite (incense trader??)
NetNomad 4/2/2021 4:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Good Info:

YSEQ has now almost all the Somali SNPs for their E-V12 Panel($88), but the one missing can be added, if one requested, as yhey say on their website.

http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=32767

I think YSEQ's E-V12 panel test is only interesting for North-Eastern Somalis at this point. Maybe in the future with more Somaliland and South Somalia lineages being discovered it might become interesting for other Somalis.

Even cheaper is their single SNP test. Just $18.

@Awale; I think you might carry this subclade, would be cool if you can confirm:

[Bad Link]=128977
farjanomar 4/3/2021 12:31:00 AM

[QUOTE=NetNomad;762371]I think YSEQ's E-V12 panel test is only interesting for North-Eastern Somalis at this point. Maybe in the future with more Somaliland and South Somalia lineages being discovered it might become interesting for other Somalis.

But, its better than staying with E-V32, for those, who are not going to afford big Y test, and, are curous. They will at least get one of the 3 main branchs of Somali E-Y18629.

Even cheaper is their single SNP test. Just $18.

They will automatically add another SNp to the one ordered, they did to me. 18 will become $36.

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-02-2021 at 06:34 PM.

Reason: wrong one
farjanomar 4/6/2021 8:01:00 AM

When is YFULL Update?

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-06-2021 at 02:02 AM.

Reason: wrong one
drobbah 4/9/2021 11:22:00 PM

There are two other unknown E-BY75676 besides me & Almagest but can't seem to find them on ftdna.Has anyone seen these two individuals in a project perhaps?
farjanomar 4/10/2021 6:34:00 AM

Very interesting, there is new Ajuuraan sample on ftdna, but, they have not placed him on the list yet. He is still in the SNPs page. He will be the first.

If ever, the so called Pre-Samaale hypothesis is to hold water. The Ajuuran should be the epitome Pre-Samaale, because during their Kingdom, the Somali People,

were called Aji and Ajuuran. There was always a debate about where in the Somali Clan Tree the aJuuraan fall.

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-10-2021 at 12:38 AM.
farjanomar 4/11/2021 9:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There are two other unknown E-BY75676 besides me & Almagest but can't seem to find them on ftdna.Has anyone seen these two individuals in a project perhaps?

Interesting. How do you know? are they, your big Y ftdna match, but, not in a ftdna project?

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-11-2021 at 03:51 AM.
drobbah 4/11/2021 9:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Interesting. How did you find them? are they, Your big Y ftdna match?

Nah I found them by going to my subclade's country statistics. We have a total of 4 samples including myself and my fellow Habar Awal who is the only person in my BigY matches page. I guess these two other unknown origin dudes decided to not opt in to matching which sucks. Hopefully they change their mind or decide to upload on yfull
drobbah 4/12/2021 11:33:00 PM

Ftdna updated my haplogroup.I am now downstream of BY75676 and I'm now assigned downstream E-FT385910.The Cisse Muse fellow is still at BY75676, I think those unknown dudes were Sacad Muuse
farjanomar 4/13/2021 8:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Ftdna updated my haplogroup.I am now downstream of BY75676 and I'm now assigned downstream E-FT385910.The Cisse Muse fellow is still at BY75676, I think those unknown dudes were Sacad Muuse

Congrats bro, with you new SNp.

I think, it will fishy if the other guys, don't want even join Yfull, Coz on Yfull a lot People just put their Country flag, not much information. how long since you first saw them?
drobbah 4/13/2021 9:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Congrats bro, with you new SNp.

I think, it will fishy if the other guys, don't want even join Yfull, Coz on Yfull a lot People just put their Country flag, not much information. how long since you first saw them?

I never saw their kits, I just checked my subclade statistic recently and found that their were four of us but I never seen the other two as matches nor did they join projects.It's a shame these presumably Isaaqs don't want to share their origins or their clans while the Daroods have done a good job of networking and sharing clan info.
NetNomad 4/13/2021 10:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Ftdna updated my haplogroup.I am now downstream of BY75676 and I'm now assigned downstream E-FT385910.The Cisse Muse fellow is still at BY75676, I think those unknown dudes were Sacad Muuse

Perhaps when YFull updates the new TMRCAs in a couple of weeks you can compare the SNP number starting from E-Y18629 to either E-FT18668 or E-BY8081 and from there guestimate how old your TMRCA is. It can be roughly accurate.
drobbah 4/14/2021 9:45:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Perhaps when YFull updates the new TMRCAs in a couple of weeks you can compare the SNP number starting from E-Y18629 to either E-FT18668 or E-BY8081 and from there guestimate how old your TMRCA is. It can be roughly accurate.

I have 5 private variants which means there is a 5 snp difference between me and this Sacad Muuse individual.So,we probably have a tmrca between 135-500 ybp (330 ybp).The modern Somali cluster under E-FT18121 (subclade of E-Y17859) would be around 2600 ybp.

What's your opinion on E-BY8075 (brother clade of our Somali branch)? It has an Egyptian & a Saudi (if from Hijaz then it is ultimately of recent Egypto-Nubian origin as well)? Do you think E-Z813 might be a recent lineage from NE Africa as in the sense it arrived a lot later after the main waves of cushitic pastoralists? Perhaps we are part of the wave that brought Iranian_Chl/CHG into the Horn as this is what differentiates modern Horners from the PN samples as Mnemonics pointed out.We have an Egyptian & Sudanese Z813*, we also have an Egyptian E-Y17859*

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 4/16/2021 11:23:00 AM

BY8075 might turn out to be big. There is at least 3 Saudis in E-M35 project. Its the Albadawi Tribe of Saudi Arabia, but i don't know, how many have it.

But, at least BY8075 is old and big enough to be in many places. I am intrigued by the young immigrant Somali BY8081 lineage showing up in multiple places. This is only 225 years old.

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-16-2021 at 05:26 AM.

Reason: wrong one
farjanomar 4/20/2021 9:54:00 AM

Nearly perfect match for the Somali Banadiri cluster Haplogroup G. At Y37 marker 2 are 37/37 and 1 has a GD of just 1, so that means they have

the same ancestor who lived just 7-10 generations a go.

Last edited by farjanomar; 04-20-2021 at 03:56 AM.

Reason: wrong one
drobbah 4/20/2021 10:10:00 AM

Those dudes are probably Ba'alawi who are Ashraaf from Hadhramawt.

Last edited by drobbah; 04-20-2021 at 04:18 AM.
drobbah 4/21/2021 11:54:00 AM

There's a new kit (MK70064) that is probably E-BY155996+ and seems similar to the Habar Jeclo Isaaq individual and a Kuwaiti.I think DYS393=12 might be a unique E-BY155996+ str for Z813+ individuals.

Edit: The kit is Tumaal/Gaaboye who claim to be Dir (Muse dhariyo)

Last edited by drobbah; 04-21-2021 at 03:55 PM.
capsian 4/21/2021 10:32:00 PM

Hi i have question outside this subject

is here anyone who know informatoin about branche E-V32 which moroccans
drobbah 4/21/2021 10:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

Hi i have question outside this subject

is here anyone who know informatoin about branche E-V32 which moroccans

The only Maghrebi that was E-V32 was a Libyan and he is under the Somali branch of the haplogroup.E-V32 in North Africa is restricted to Egypt & Sudan.
capsian 4/21/2021 11:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The only Maghrebi that was E-V32 was a Libyan and he is under the Somali branch of the haplogroup.E-V32 in North Africa is restricted to Egypt & Sudan.

E-CTS693 is under E-V32 or E-V12
capsian 4/21/2021 11:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The only Maghrebi that was E-V32 was a Libyan and he is under the Somali branch of the haplogroup.E-V32 in North Africa is restricted to Egypt & Sudan.

this guy what his people are, he is Berber or Tabou or Arabians Libyan
NetNomad 4/21/2021 11:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

this guy what his people are, he is Berber or Tabou or Arabians Libyan

The Libyan man has a 500-400 year old subclade found in other Somalis (E-BY8081). He is not on yfull but on FTDNA. Most likely it is from a Somali trader or student who went to Libya in the early modern period. Slavery is highly unlikely as the Somali clan associated with that subclade had a sultanate and formal/peaceful ties with Arabs.

It is a rare fluke with that guy. I think most other E-V32 Maghrebis will have sub-clades from Egyptians or Jordanians who went to the Maghreb instead. Maybe in some of the Arabized ones at low frequency.
capsian 4/22/2021 12:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

The Libyan man has a 500-400 year old subclade found in other Somalis (E-BY8081). He is not on yfull but on FTDNA. Most likely it is from a Somali trader or student who went to Libya in the early modern period. Slavery is highly unlikely as the Somali clan associated with that subclade had a sultanate and formal/peaceful ties with Arabs.

It is a rare fluke with that guy. I think most other E-V32 Maghrebis will have sub-clades from Egyptians or Jordanians who went to the Maghreb instead. Maybe in some of the Arabized ones at low frequency.

tanks you about this informatoin because i know friend from people tabou he is E-V12
drobbah 4/22/2021 1:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

this guy what his people are, he is Berber or Tabou or Arabians Libyan

Probably Arab as he claims to descend from a famous shareef scholar who happens to have a maqaam in his town of Zliten.

This is what I could find about his supposed ancestor:

مسجد ومقام سيدي مفتاح الصفراني العطوي الفيتوري الإدريسي الحسني في مدينة زليتن وهو من المقامات الشهيرة التي تقصد وتزار ويحظى باعتقاد واحترام عامة الناس له ولذريته السادة الصفران.

*نسبه الشريف:

سيدي مفتاح بن جابر بن ارخيص بن محمد الأصفر بن عطية بن محمد الكبير بن سيدي سليمان بن سالم بن خليفة بن عمران بن أحمد بن خليفة فيتور بن عبدالعزيز بن مولاي عبدالله نبيل بن مولاي عمران بن مولاي أحمد بن مولاي عبدالله بن مولاي عبدالعزيز بن مولاي عبدالقادر بن مولاي عبدالرحيم (أحمد) بن مولاي محمد بن الأمير مولاي عبدالله الناسك بن مولاي ادريس الأصغر بن مولاي ادريس الأكبر بن سيدنا عبدالله المحض بن سيدنا الحسن المثنى بن الإمام الحسن المجتبى بن أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله تعالى عنهم.

Last edited by drobbah; 04-21-2021 at 07:55 PM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
capsian 4/22/2021 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Probably Arab as he claims to descend from a famous shareef scholar who happens to have a maqaam in his town of Zliten.

This is what I could find about his supposed ancestor:

thanks you
capsian 4/22/2021 2:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Probably Arab as he claims to descend from a famous shareef scholar who happens to have a maqaam in his town of Zliten.

This is what I could find about his supposed ancestor:

El Adarissa in North Africa are E-M81 (all branches M81)
drobbah 4/22/2021 2:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

El Adarissa in North Africa are E-M81 (all branches M81)

Which means they are probably indigenous to Morocco.I've seen some Idrissids who carry y-dna G
capsian 4/22/2021 5:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Which means they are probably indigenous to Morocco.I've seen some Idrissids who carry y-dna G

no mostly are E-M81 and some E-V65
farjanomar 4/22/2021 5:27:00 PM

Our Somali big Y Dante Labs results, are finally starting to come in alxamdillaah. Last week 1 Isaaq guy got it, and this week 1 Gadubiirse guy. They are still uploading to Yfull.
drobbah 4/23/2021 1:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Our Somali big Y Dante Labs results, are finally starting to come in alxamdillaah. Last week 1 Isaaq guy got it, and this week 1 Gadubiirse guy. They are still uploading to Yfull.

Which Isaaq subclan is he from?
farjanomar 4/23/2021 7:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Which Isaaq subclan is he from?

I only know that he is a Hg T isaaq.
drobbah 4/23/2021 7:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I only know that he is a Hg T isaaq.

Probably Garxajis or Habar Jeclo then.I was hoping one of the E-V32 HJs or the E-V22 Arabs would take the test.We already have enough Isaaq Ts
GabrielZelalem 4/23/2021 9:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Which Isaaq subclan is he from?

Don’t know if that’s the same individual but I recently matched with another Isaaq on FTDNA, a HJ brother.
farjanomar 4/23/2021 10:08:00 AM

A Surre sample and a Marehan sample should arrive anytime. Coz they were close last time they updated us.

Last year, when we promoted Dante sales, we got about 11 people who bought the sale. But we might only get maybe 8-9 Coz some of them had problems

Dante getting their samples.

First time, we have 1 Abgaal, 1 Marehan, and also 1 Arab Salah big Y test.
drobbah 4/25/2021 9:10:00 AM

Is anyone else of the opinion that only one of the E-Y17859 branches is the proto-Somali lineage?

E-BY155996 seems to be around 2.5-3k years old but with limited distribution in Somaliland among Isaaqs,that new Musa Dhariye blacksmith (Northern artisinal castes) and possibly pockets in the south among some Dirs, the Ashraaf Merka sample would be an example of that.

The other brother branch seems limited to the Harti clan while the other E-Y18637 is probably the most widely spread lineage in Somaliweyn from both the Daroods,Hawiye and I think one raxanweyn sample.I think it's age,widespread distrubtion makes it a good candidate.I definitely want to hear from the others like NetNomad,Omar etc what their perspective or theories are concerning Somali E-V32 subclades
drobbah 4/28/2021 6:06:00 PM

Palestinian from Nablus uploaded on yfull as E-Z813* (ftdna kit#IN98747) and two other Palestinians are probably also E-Z813* based on their strs.....

In other news a Saudi singer from the ancient Qahtani Bariq tribe (which existed during the Prophet's time) seems to cluster with the Habar Awal and probably belongs to E-BY75676 (tmrca 1100 ybp) lol

Last edited by drobbah; 04-28-2021 at 12:21 PM.
Megatron 4/29/2021 12:33:00 AM

I plan to take the Big-Y test. Which one would you guys recommend, FtDNA or Dante Labs?
GabrielZelalem 4/29/2021 3:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I plan to take the Big-Y test. Which one would you guys recommend, FtDNA or Dante Labs?

FTDNA's Big-Y is very expensive, but its guaranteed you'll get your results in time. There has been quite a few complaints about Dante Labs regarding the delays etc but I think the money saved is worth waiting, as the results are the same.
drobbah 4/29/2021 7:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I plan to take the Big-Y test. Which one would you guys recommend, FtDNA or Dante Labs?

That's good news walaal, we really need a non-Habar Awal Isaaq E-V32 result.I would personally recommend the BigY from ftdna
farjanomar 4/29/2021 5:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I plan to take the Big-Y test. Which one would you guys recommend, FtDNA or Dante Labs?

That's good bro. There is a Company called Nabula genomics offering a sale of $299, but, i don't know how good they are.

This are your prices options for now:

A-FTDNA $449.

B-Dante Labs $599.

C-Nebula Genomics Sale $299.
NetNomad 4/29/2021 6:01:00 PM

Arabs really seem to have diverse Ys, especially their low frequency lineages.

I think that the Horn (even excluding Somalis) has less Y diversity than the Egypt/Levant/Arabian Peninsula zone.
drobbah 4/29/2021 7:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Arabs really seem to have diverse Ys, especially their low frequency lineages.

I think that the Horn (even excluding Somalis) has less Y diversity than the Egypt/Levant/Arabian Peninsula zone.

What those Palestinian E-Z813* shows is that the lineage clearly originated in modern Egypt and considering that the E-Y17859 is also Egyptian seems to suggest a late introduction into the Horn from the Northern parts of the Eastern Desert around 4.5k years ago with the lineage that dominates modern Somalis being around 3k year old.

Archeologists found cattle herding site that was roughly of a similar age (4k ybp):

The faunal remains confirm the importance of fishing in Neolithic settlements close to Lake Abbé, but also the importance of bovine husbandry and, for the first time in this area, evidence for caprine herding practices. Radiocarbon dating places this occupation at the beginning of the 2nd millennium b.c., similar in range to Asa Koma. These two sites represent the oldest evidence of herding in the region, and they provide a better understanding of the development of Neolithic societies in this region.

Sada Mire:

However, there are great similarities with sites in Ethiopia, northern Kenya, Djibouti and Eritrea. The megalithic traditions of Somaliland could go back to Neolithic times. However, many seem to be from about the second millennium BCE up until recently

Asiatic (Semitic) tribes did arrive in the Eastern Desert from the Sinai and probably some of those tribes are responsible for E-Z813 in the Southern Levant.For example the E-BY8075* sample is a Sinai Bedouin who just might descend from the Medjay a Northern Eastern Desert nomadic cattle herders who lived around 2000 BCE

Last edited by drobbah; 04-29-2021 at 01:41 PM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Deftextra 4/30/2021 7:48:00 AM

Anyone know the origin/clan of the individual from banaadir on y-full (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/?.

I am likely E-Y18637+, but need to do BigY to confirm and I think there is a strong chance I fall under the same branch as the guy from banaadir.

Maternal grandmothers father paternal haplogroup: R1a1a (likely R-Y6).
drobbah 4/30/2021 8:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

Anyone know the origin/clan of the individual from banaadir on y-full (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/?.

I am likely E-Y18637+, but need to do BigY to confirm and I think there is a strong chance I fall under the same branch as the guy from banaadir.

Definitely Hawiye as he clusters with other Hawiye subclans based on his strs.Hawiye seem to all belong to E-Y18637 except the Somaliland Hawiye who are T-M70+.
farjanomar 4/30/2021 11:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Deftextra

Anyone know the origin/clan of the individual from banaadir on y-full (https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/?.

I am likely E-Y18637+, but need to do BigY to confirm and I think there is a strong chance I fall under the same branch as the guy from banaadir.

What test have you done so far? Ftdna Y37.
Deftextra 4/30/2021 3:04:00 PM

Yeah Y37 only so far.

Maternal grandmothers father paternal haplogroup: R1a1a (likely R-Y6).
drobbah 4/30/2021 6:41:00 PM

Yfull finally added the dates/tmrcas for the E tree..

Also the Cole's Burial I8874 sample (3k years old) that someone on this forum claimed was E-Z813+ is actually E-CTS5995*,one of the medieval Nubian E-V32 samples also belonged to this clade

Last edited by drobbah; 04-30-2021 at 01:01 PM.
drobbah 5/2/2021 11:23:00 PM

Just got a new str match at Y-111 with a genetic distance of 8 from the Hussein Abokor reer Samatar clan (tribe of current SL president), Habar Awal seems to be a solid real clan with a recent forefather just like the Harti (ancient people of Maydh).Interestingly enough this means that Saudi dude is a long lost Sacad Muuse

Show Spoiler

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Zack15 5/7/2021 6:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Nah I found them by going to my subclade's country statistics. We have a total of 4 samples including myself and my fellow Habar Awal who is the only person in my BigY matches page. I guess these two other unknown origin dudes decided to not opt in to matching which sucks. Hopefully they change their mind or decide to upload on yfull

I think I'm one of them. I forgot I had it previously in private mode but now have changed it to allow matches. I'm Sacad Muse - Jibril Abokor with E-FT385910
drobbah 5/7/2021 7:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Zack15

I think I'm one of them. I forgot I had it previously in private mode but now have changed it to allow matches. I'm Sacad Muse - Jibril Abokor with E-FT385910

A fellow JB masha'allah, welcome to the forum brother.It makes me happy to see more Habar Awal taking the test.There's another HA who took the test but he's E-BY75676* which means he is probably neither Sacad Muuse or Cisse Muuse, I wonder if he belongs to those smaller lesser known HA clans.

Our tmrca is probably between 250 and 400 ybp which aligns with our abtirsi.JB has gone through a bottleneck with the vast majority of us descending from his grandson Cumar.I hope you decide to upload on yfull walaal

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Zack15 5/7/2021 8:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

A fellow JB masha'allah, welcome to the forum brother.It makes me happy to see more Habar Awal taking the test.There's another HA who took the test but he's E-BY75676* which means he is probably neither Sacad Muuse or Cisse Muuse, I wonder if he belongs to those smaller lesser known HA clans.

Our tmrca is probably between 250 and 400 ybp which aligns with our abtirsi.JB has gone through a bottleneck with the vast majority of us descending from his grandson Cumar.I hope you decide to upload on yfull walaal

Thanks walaal and yes I plan on on uploading to yfull soon. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this but what you mean by the HA who's E-BY75676* is possibly not SM or CM? Is the addition of the asterisk means it's different than the E-BY75676 which I got as a subclade before E-FT385910?
drobbah 5/8/2021 12:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Zack15

Thanks walaal and yes I plan on on uploading to yfull soon. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this but what you mean by the HA who's E-BY75676* is possibly not SM or CM? Is the addition of the asterisk means it's different than the E-BY75676 which I got as a subclade before E-FT385910?

The asterik means that he is only BY75676+ without sharing a downstream subclade like me and you.If the CM & this new sample were recently related (like both belonging to CM) they would of formed a new subclade which they didn't.E-BY75676 seems to be the Habar Awal clade or at least the descendants of Muuse.Muuse the son of Subeyr probably lived around 800-900 ybp and from what we know he had a bunch sons not just the famous two (Sacad & Cisse) such as Afgaab Muse,Celi Muse,Cigalle Muse,Cabdalle Muse.I think that E-BY75676 sample belongs to one of these lesser known clans.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 5/8/2021 1:18:00 AM

@Drobbar Good to know the smaller Somali sub sub clans. We Somali always mention and know the Big Clans and Sub Clans. Its good Habar Awal

Big Y tree is growing more and more. hopefully the other guy in your match is going to join you as well.
drobbah 5/8/2021 1:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Drobbar Good to know the smaller Somali sub sub clans. We Somali always mention and know the Big Clans and Sub Clans. Its good Habar Awal

Big Y tree is growing more and more. hopefully the other guy in your match is going to join you as well.

If you think Habar Awal or the Sacad Muuse clan is small then you must be ignorant which is understandable since many Somalis live in their own clan bubbles.

We are a large clan that live and mainly are concentrated and dominate in Maroodi Jeex the most densely populated Somali region after Banaadir.A huge percentage of Djibouti is Habar Awal and entire Sacad Muuse subclans live in Ethiopia's farming reserve areas ( mostly Reer Yoonis Jibriil Abokor) and the nomadic Hawd area (clans like reer Samatar Hussein Abokor)
farjanomar 5/8/2021 1:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Is anyone else of the opinion that only one of the E-Y17859 branches is the proto-Somali lineage?

E-BY155996 seems to be around 2.5-3k years old but with limited distribution in Somaliland among Isaaqs,that new Musa Dhariye blacksmith (Northern artisinal castes) and possibly pockets in the south among some Dirs, the Ashraaf Merka sample would be an example of that.

The other brother branch seems limited to the Harti clan while the other E-Y18637 is probably the most widely spread lineage in Somaliweyn from both the Daroods,Hawiye and I think one raxanweyn sample.I think it's age,widespread distrubtion makes it a good candidate.I definitely want to hear from the others like NetNomad,Omar etc what their perspective or theories are concerning Somali E-V32 subclades

For now, its E-Y18637 that is the oldest, but their is possible 4th subclade of E-Y18629. (cluster in the Ftdna Somali project cluster !.4 with 3 members)
farjanomar 5/8/2021 2:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

If you think Habar Awal or the Sacad Muuse clan is small then you must be ignorant which is understandable since many Somalis live in their own clan bubbles.

We are a large clan that live and mainly are concentrated and dominate in Maroodi Jeex the most densely populated Somali region after Banaadir.A huge percentage of Djibouti is Habar Awal and entire Sacad Muuse subclans live in Ethiopia's farming reserve areas ( mostly Reer Yoonis Jibriil Abokor) and the nomadic Hawd area (clans like reer Samatar Hussein Abokor)

NO, i mean NON Ciise Muuse NON Sacad Muuse HA sub sub clans just like you mentioned.
farjanomar 5/8/2021 6:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Zack15

I think I'm one of them. I forgot I had it previously in private mode but now have changed it to allow matches. I'm Sacad Muse - Jibril Abokor with E-FT385910

Welcome bro. How long did your big Y test take? I gather there are delays.
Zack15 5/8/2021 7:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The asterik means that he is only BY75676+ without sharing a downstream subclade like me and you.If the CM & this new sample were recently related (like both belonging to CM) they would of formed a new subclade which they didn't.E-BY75676 seems to be the Habar Awal clade or at least the descendants of Muuse.Muuse the son of Subeyr probably lived around 800-900 ybp and from what we know he had a bunch sons not just the famous two (Sacad & Cisse) such as Afgaab Muse,Celi Muse,Cigalle Muse,Cabdalle Muse.I think that E-BY75676 sample belongs to one of these lesser known clans.

Got it. Appreciate the explanation and yeah hopefully we get more clarity as more tests come in.
Zack15 5/8/2021 7:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Welcome bro. How long did your big Y test take? I gather there are delays.

Yeah , it took about three months. I even forgot about it completly until I decided to check back in the other day to find it was finished a few weeks back.
drobbah 5/8/2021 3:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

For now, its E-Y18637 that is the oldest, but their is possible 4th subclade of E-Y18629. (cluster in the Ftdna Somali project cluster !.4 with 3 members)

E-FT18121 only has three branches.My current theory is that E-Y18637 is associated with the mythical Samaale Somali speaking camel herders and their expansion all over Somaliweyn.

E-BY155996 represents the urbanized non-Somali population of Western Somaliland.I think the Isaaq clan was an assimilation process between the dominant Somali nomads (Mostly T carrying Dir from Sanaag) with the farming and merchant locals after the collapse of the medieval state of Adal.While the artisinal castes were subjugated under a caste system.Sada Miire has interesting theory that Yibir for example is actually an Ethio-Semitic word for tax collecting.

E-Y163928 would represent the urban population possibly non-Somali population of Sanaag who were Somalianized.The fact that Daarood always had the tradition they weren't Samaale and the story of marrying a wife of Dir imo seems to suggest they were Somalianized by E-BY8081 and local T lineages.I think someone here posted about a village of Ogaden men in Ethiopia who were majority T-M70+

Some Somali clans by the time of the Futuh were living within the Sultanate of Adal but the vast majority didn't.Some of the clans that lived there are Gerri Koombe (Daarood),Yabarre (Daarood),Habar Maqdi (possibly Samarone),Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Arab & Ayuub).Mareexaan lived on the periphery and so did the Harti (people of Maydh).When the Marexaan killed the Adalite messenger he fled to what the chronicler called the land of the Somalis where the Hawiye lived.The incursions of these clans into the territory of the Sultanate Western & Central Somaliland & Hawd was probably when the nomads ultimately became Muslims imo (13th century)

Some sources about medieval Somaliland from StateHorn

Show Spoiler

Last edited by drobbah; 05-08-2021 at 12:25 PM.
Megatron 5/8/2021 5:15:00 PM

I’ve looked at the available options and I think I’ll go with FtDNA Big-Y. Can’t wait for the next Dante Labs sales.
lavrok 5/9/2021 2:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I’m HJ.

Good to see another HJ E-V32 on here. Are you Muuse Abokor or Maxamed Abokor?
Megatron 5/9/2021 4:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by lavrok

Good to see another HJ E-V32 on here. Are you Muuse Abokor or Maxamed Abokor?

I’m Mahamed Abokor walaal.
NetNomad 5/9/2021 8:49:00 AM

@Megatron; @lavrok; @drobbah;

Do you guys think it is possible that some Eastern Isaaqs with E-V32 (HYs/HJs?) will end up under E-Y163928* instead of E-BY155996? For example, from the E-Y163928* Dhulbahante person's (YF66563) STRs nobody was able to tell in advance he was related to the E-Y163949 group (didn't have DYS388=13).

Just throwing out some ideas.
drobbah 5/9/2021 12:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@Megatron; @lavrok; @drobbah;

Do you guys think it is possible that some Eastern Isaaqs with E-V32 (HYs/HJs?) will end up under E-Y163928* instead of E-BY155996? For example, from the E-Y163928* Dhulbahante person's (YF66563) STRs nobody was able to tell in advance he was related to the E-Y163949 group (didn't have DYS388=13).

Just throwing out some ideas.

The only HJ sample I seen on ftdna looks to be E-BY155996 based on his strs alongside a Kuwaiti sample and so does that Tumaal (blacksmith) individual.The situation your proposing is definitely possible but right now we need the E-V32 HJ samples to take the bigY or at minimum take a str test.

From what I was told was that the E-V32 Garxajis are Ciidigale (1 sample) and Western HY.So it's highly unlikely they don't fall under E-BY155996

We also need those Southern E-V32 Dir to take the BigY.If they end up E-Y18637+ then my theory of E-Y18637/T-BY181210 being the original Somali lineages will be highly likely.

Last edited by drobbah; 05-09-2021 at 06:28 AM.
lavrok 5/9/2021 4:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I’m Mahamed Abokor walaal.

Thats interesting, I am Muse Abokor btw, it would be great to get more HJ tested as there is hardly any information on distribution of E/T within Samane, Maxamed and Muse Abokor.

Last edited by lavrok; 05-09-2021 at 10:15 AM.
Megatron 5/9/2021 4:19:00 PM

I matched with E-V32 HJ both Muse and Mahamed Abokor on 23andme and other E-V32 Isaaq. Also I matched with T-L208 Isaaq and E-V22 Isaaq.

I know one Samane Abokor but I’m not sure if he wants to take a test. Personally I think they will turn out to be E-V32.

T-L208 seem to be the main lineage in Mahamed Abokor from what I have seen this far but anything is possible. Most E-V32 Mahamed Abokor are Ahmed Farah, the largest sub clan within Mahamed Abokor.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-09-2021 at 10:27 AM.
drobbah 5/9/2021 5:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I matched with E-V32 HJ both Muse and Mahamed Abokor on 23andme and other E-V32 Isaaq. Also I matched with T-L208 Isaaq and E-V22 Isaaq.

I know one Samane Abokor but I’m not sure if he wants to take a test. Personally I think they will turn out to be E-V32.

T-L208 seem to be the main lineage in Mahamed Abokor from what I have seen this far but anything is possible. Most E-V32 Mahamed Abokor are Ahmed Farah, the largest sub clan within Mahamed Abokor.

Based on what you seen so far, is E-V32 the dominant lineage of HJ?
Megatron 5/9/2021 5:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Based on what you seen so far, is E-V32 the dominant lineage of HJ?

It could be the dominant lineage now that plenty of Ahmed Farah have also tested positive for E-V32. Ahmed Farah is without a doubt the largest sub clan among the Mahamed Abokor HJ and a powerhouse in the city of Burao.
drobbah 5/10/2021 12:05:00 AM

Has anyone seen results from the following clans: Geri,Bartire,Abaskuul & Yabarre?
farjanomar 5/10/2021 5:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-FT18121 only has three branches.My current theory is that E-Y18637 is associated with the mythical Samaale Somali speaking camel herders and their expansion all over Somaliweyn.

E-BY155996 represents the urbanized non-Somali population of Western Somaliland.I think the Isaaq clan was an assimilation process between the dominant Somali nomads (Mostly T carrying Dir from Sanaag) with the farming and merchant locals after the collapse of the medieval state of Adal.While the artisinal castes were subjugated under a caste system.Sada Miire has interesting theory that Yibir for example is actually an Ethio-Semitic word for tax collecting.

E-Y163928 would represent the urban population possibly non-Somali population of Sanaag who were Somalianized.The fact that Daarood always had the tradition they weren't Samaale and the story of marrying a wife of Dir imo seems to suggest they were Somalianized by E-BY8081 and local T lineages.I think someone here posted about a village of Ogaden men in Ethiopia who were majority T-M70+

Some Somali clans by the time of the Futuh were living within the Sultanate of Adal but the vast majority didn't.Some of the clans that lived there are Gerri Koombe (Daarood),Yabarre (Daarood),Habar Maqdi (possibly Samarone),Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Arab & Ayuub).Mareexaan lived on the periphery and so did the Harti (people of Maydh).When the Marexaan killed the Adalite messenger he fled to what the chronicler called the land of the Somalis where the Hawiye lived.The incursions of these clans into the territory of the Sultanate Western & Central Somaliland & Hawd was probably when the nomads ultimately became Muslims imo (13th century)

Some sources about medieval Somaliland from StateHorn

Show Spoiler

Originally Posted by drobbah

Has anyone seen results from the following clans: Geri,Bartire,Abaskuul & Yabarre?

No. I have not seen them. Thousands of Somalis have taken basic 23andme tests, especially the Somali Diaspora. The problem is they don't make it Public.

Now, i almost have 600 relatives 90% of them Somalis, but they rarely put up their Clan information.
farjanomar 5/10/2021 5:27:00 AM

I hope someone makes FB group that promotes Somali DNA testing especially big Y, now that prices are way down, from where they were years ago.

A lot communities have it. I am a member of North African group page that i lurk sometimes, and there are so many results all the time.
Megatron 5/11/2021 12:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Has anyone seen results from the following clans: Geri,Bartire,Abaskuul & Yabarre?

Don’t really know the clan breakdown but most of my Ethio-Somali relatives on 23andme are E-V32, two of them are E-M183 and one is J-CTS5368.
farjanomar 5/11/2021 6:42:00 AM

It looks like, we finally have Downstream SNP (E-FT77328) for https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/ Congrats to sample # 137691 on E-M35 project.
Omaar 5/11/2021 12:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

It looks like, we finally have Downstream SNP (E-FT77328) for https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/ Congrats to sample # 137691 on E-M35 project.

E-FT77328 has 29 equivalent SNPs and i share with someone who wants to stay anonymous.

Yet I have 9 private variants. The "Bay guy" is still in paragroup E-BY192465*.

Originally Posted by drobbah

Is anyone else of the opinion that only one of the E-Y17859 branches is the proto-Somali lineage?

E-BY155996 seems to be around 2.5-3k years old but with limited distribution in Somaliland among Isaaqs,that new Musa Dhariye blacksmith (Northern artisinal castes) and possibly pockets in the south among some Dirs, the Ashraaf Merka sample would be an example of that.

The other brother branch seems limited to the Harti clan while the other E-Y18637 is probably the most widely spread lineage in Somaliweyn from both the Daroods,Hawiye and I think one raxanweyn sample.I think it's age,widespread distrubtion makes it a good candidate.I definitely want to hear from the others like NetNomad,Omar etc what their perspective or theories are concerning Somali E-V32 subclades

The somali guy who is in the paragroup E-Y18637* is from Sanaag region. He says that he belongs to Ugaaslabe/Ogeyslabe clan.
drobbah 5/11/2021 1:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

E-FT77328 has 29 equivalent SNPs and i share with someone who wants to stay anonymous.

Yet I have 9 private variants. The "Bay guy" is still in paragroup E-BY192465*.

The somali guy who is in the paragroup E-Y18637* is from Sanaag region. He says that he belongs to Ugaaslabe/Ogeyslabe clan.

Ugaaslabe from what I could find online are not Darood.E-Y18637 is probably the E-V32 equivalent of Samaale which expanded from their urheimat of Sanaag imo.Hopefully Garre,Gaaljecel,Xawaadle,Ajuuraan and other notorious Samaale clans take the BigY

Last edited by drobbah; 05-11-2021 at 07:07 AM.
drobbah 5/11/2021 1:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

Don’t really know the clan breakdown but most of my Ethio-Somali relatives on 23andme are E-V32, two of them are E-M183 and one is J-CTS5368.

E-M183 is a Berber lineage that dominates the Sheikhaal clan.I think the J-P58 Arabian lineage is found in the Ogaden clan as you can see in the Somali ftdna project.

I still haven't come across any Jidwaaq or Bartire results, I wonder if they will fall under the Western Somaliland E-V32 clade or the clade that currently dominates the Harti.
farjanomar 5/12/2021 1:29:00 AM

Congrats to Beesha T. Now Yfull has just updated in the live section. Extra branches. Give us some insight into the new branches.
Megatron 5/13/2021 7:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-M183 is a Berber lineage that dominates the Sheikhaal clan.I think the J-P58 Arabian lineage is found in the Ogaden clan as you can see in the Somali ftdna project.

I still haven't come across any Jidwaaq or Bartire results, I wonder if they will fall under the Western Somaliland E-V32 clade or the clade that currently dominates the Harti.

That would be interesting to know.

I forgot to add one Ethio-Somali relative with A1b1-M118 before he hid his results unfortunately. The other one on my relatives list with similar haplogroup is from Somalia proper.
drobbah 5/13/2021 7:44:00 PM

I seen one dude with that haplogroup but his direct paternal ancestor was from Yemen and he had significant Arab & South Asian ancestry but was autosomally predominantly Somali.
diini95 5/13/2021 11:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

That would be interesting to know.

I forgot to add one Ethio-Somali relative with A1b1-M118 before he hid his results unfortunately. The other one on my relatives list with similar haplogroup is from Somalia proper.

My third closest relative has the same haplogroup he is either my second or third cousin.
drobbah 5/14/2021 12:04:00 AM

Which clan does kit N102099 belong too?
Omaar 5/16/2021 4:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Very interesting, there is new Ajuuraan sample on ftdna, but, they have not placed him on the list yet. He is still in the SNPs page. He will be the first.

If ever, the so called Pre-Samaale hypothesis is to hold water. The Ajuuran should be the epitome Pre-Samaale, because during their Kingdom, the Somali People,

were called Aji and Ajuuran. There was always a debate about where in the Somali Clan Tree the aJuuraan fall.

Some clan names are derived from occupations that were common to many groups, such as:

Shiikhaal -> theologians

Ajuuraan-> إيجار/renter?

Tumaal-> blacksmith

What is that Ajuuraan's haplogroup?
drobbah 5/16/2021 5:58:00 PM

Does the South have Madhibaan,Tumaal and Yibir? I always wondered who were the blacksmiths of the south

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 5/17/2021 3:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Some clan names are derived from occupations that were common to many groups, such as:

Shiikhaal -> theologians

Ajuuraan-> إيجار/renter?

Tumaal-> blacksmith

What is that Ajuuraan's haplogroup?

It looks like the guy, removed his Clan Name, and, maybe even left the Somali Project, once i made my statement kkkk. He might have read my statement (Allaah Aclam).

I don't understand why some People are so private about the their result, after spending so much money on Dna testing.

He did not have any Haplogroup. He was on the SNP page where, People get placed before, they get their first Ftdna result.
Almagest 5/18/2021 3:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

It looks like the guy, removed his Clan Name, and, maybe even left the Somali Project, once i made my statement kkkk. He might have read my statement (Allaah Aclam).

I don't understand why some People are so private about the their result, after spending so much money on Dna testing.

He did not have any Haplogroup. He was on the SNP page where, People get placed before, they get their first Ftdna result.

It’s understandable. I don’t think we will see many E Hy or Ciidagale or Dir because of the people that gatekeep these clan haplogroups on certain sites LOL if you try to say you are E in a T-dominated clan they will not accept you, call you sheegato etc.
NetNomad 5/18/2021 6:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

It’s understandable. I don’t think we will see many E Hy or Ciidagale or Dir because of the people that gatekeep these clan haplogroups on certain sites LOL if you try to say you are E in a T-dominated clan they will not accept you, call you sheegato etc.

Almost all old clans got different lineages or sub-lineages. I don't see why people make a fuss about it. Already seen a handful of E-V32 HYs and Dirs on 23andMe. Hiding makes no sense as you can find matches quicker via the Somali project or it might spark a Somali from your sub-clan with that lineage to join FT.
Megatron 5/18/2021 6:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Almagest

It’s understandable. I don’t think we will see many E Hy or Ciidagale or Dir because of the people that gatekeep these clan haplogroups on certain sites LOL if you try to say you are E in a T-dominated clan they will not accept you, call you sheegato etc.

I think you’re right because I came into contact with two E-V32 individuals from the same sub clan (Ali Said) which is a very influential clan in Somaliland and influential among the hy clan. Both have now hid their results. Most likely because of the scenario you shared. So far I know of 3 E-V32 results from this particular sub clan so there’s an obvious trend but now we can only speculate. It’s unfortunate that people are afraid to share their results because it may upset the “social order”.
NetNomad 5/18/2021 6:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

The somali guy who is in the paragroup E-Y18637* is from Sanaag region. He says that he belongs to Ugaaslabe/Ogeyslabe clan.

I hear he is from Jubbaland, which may increase the chances of it possibly being a Jubbaland origin lineage.
drobbah 5/18/2021 8:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I think you’re right because I came into contact with two E-V32 individuals from the same sub clan (Ali Said) which is a very influential clan in Somaliland and influential among the hy clan. Both have now hid their results. Most likely because of the scenario you shared. So far I know of 3 E-V32 results from this particular sub clan so there’s an obvious trend but now we can only speculate. It’s unfortunate that people are afraid to share their results because it may upset the “social order”.

Is Cali Siciiid a Musa Cabdale subclan? Perhaps they are assimilated Nuux Ismaciil the original merchant clan of Berbera or Ciise Muuse.

Just like I think the Sacad Muuse T-M70+ could be assimilated Tol Jeclo,Garxajis or Samarone.I even heard two Makahiil (SM subclan) individuals from the same jilib had two different haplogroups.Northern Somalis (SL,DJB,Ethiopia & PL) despite what many modern Somalis think practiced assimilation.
Megatron 5/18/2021 8:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Is Cali Siciiid a Musa Cabdale subclan? Perhaps they are assimilated Nuux Ismaciil the original merchant clan of Berbera or Ciise Muuse.

Just like I think the Sacad Muuse T-M70+ could be assimilated Tol Jeclo,Garxajis or Samarone.I even heard two Makahiil (SM subclan) individuals from the same jilib had two different haplogroups.Northern Somalis (SL,DJB,Ethiopia & PL) despite what many modern Somalis think practiced assimilation.

No, Ali Said is the son of Said Garhajis. All the other HY descend from his brother Arreh Said (Ishaq Arreh, Musa Arreh, Ismail Arreh). They’re not a coastal clan and they live among their fellow HY, in a territory stretching from the Hargeisa-Oodweyne corridor to Burao. You’ll find them in these cities.

I think their results (so far) is ancient and not recent assimilation from a neighboring sub clan. The fact that they are the uncles of all HY sub clans (genealogically) indicate an ancient alliance.

I agree when you find two individuals of the same sub clan with two different haplogroups then it’s usually assimilation somewhere down the line. The Makahiil T-M70 could be from Mahamed Abokor (HJ) since we used to be neighbors in eastern Sahil. The Makahil used to inhabit the ancient town of Siyara as recent as 150 years ago. One of my great great grandfathers is buried in an area between Siyara and El-Darad.
drobbah 5/18/2021 9:57:00 PM

They are definitely a lot more E-V32 and other E-M78 lineages among us Isaaq.We just need more people from various subclans especially the smaller ones to take the test.I think the vast majority of Isaaqs will be E-BY155996+,T-FGC92488,E-V22,E-M78*,E-V16 and probably some J1-P58 as well.Tbh I think Isaaqs will end up being the most diverse "Somali" clan in Somaliweyn when it comes to indigenous pre-medieval lineages.
eli 5/19/2021 3:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I matched with E-V32 HJ both Muse and Mahamed Abokor on 23andme and other E-V32 Isaaq. Also I matched with T-L208 Isaaq and E-V22 Isaaq.

I know one Samane Abokor but I’m not sure if he wants to take a test. Personally I think they will turn out to be E-V32.

T-L208 seem to be the main lineage in Mahamed Abokor from what I have seen this far but anything is possible. Most E-V32 Mahamed Abokor are Ahmed Farah, the largest sub clan within Mahamed Abokor.

Saw a Samane Abokor test result on Reddit months ago but did not think to share it as we Somalis have not created a central database of clans and their test results. He is haplogroup T.

[Bad Link]

There is a new Muuse Abokor T individual in our Facebook group, I will try to get his subclan details and see whether he belongs to the same subclan as other Muuse Abokor test results on 23andme.
eli 5/19/2021 3:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Almagest

It’s understandable. I don’t think we will see many E Hy or Ciidagale or Dir because of the people that gatekeep these clan haplogroups on certain sites LOL if you try to say you are E in a T-dominated clan they will not accept you, call you sheegato etc.

The same is also true of Habar Awals who are not E-V32 as there are individuals from both Sacad and Ciise Muuse who have tested T but may not be loud about it because of genetic stereotypes being promoted on forums.

It is not a group thing but certain individuals have been very active in pushing that Clan X = Haplogroup X. This is evident even in this thread when there is a scarcity of Somali YFull results and people are indirectly labelling others Sheegaad. I am of the opinion that old clan identities which predate Islam such as Dir, Hawiye, Daarood etc. are confederacies. Nonetheless, clans which into existence after the adoption of Islam within the past 500 to 700 years or so are not necessarily confederacies. Larger subclans will most likely have adoptees but this will be better observed when the Somali YFull trees have more results.
eli 5/19/2021 3:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I hear he is from Jubbaland, which may increase the chances of it possibly being a Jubbaland origin lineage.

Not necessarily. The concept that certain E-V32 lineages are restricted to certain macro-clans is premature as demonstrated by the fact that Maxamud Saleebaan do not cluster with Northerner Hartis on YFull. Furthermore, the presence of a supposed 'non-Somali' E-V32 lineage among the Harti also highlights how divisions are not as clear-cut as one would think.

The ironic thing is that Ogeyslabe are rumoured to be of South Asian origin but this test result throws a spanner in that clan myth.

Last edited by eli; 05-18-2021 at 09:41 PM.
eli 5/19/2021 3:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a new kit (MK70064) that is probably E-BY155996+ and seems similar to the Habar Jeclo Isaaq individual and a Kuwaiti.I think DYS393=12 might be a unique E-BY155996+ str for Z813+ individuals.

Edit: The kit is Tumaal/Gaaboye who claim to be Dir (Muse dhariyo)

Muuse Dhariye are known to be of Dir origin.

The Madhiban are a not a monolithic group and have diverse clan identities Abtirsi wise. Some are Gorgarte Hawiye whilst the Muuse Dhariye are said to be of Dir origin. Others are also of Daarood origin.

It is an ignorant assumption on the part of some Somalis to assume that these clans have a different origin just because our Jahiliya outcast culture led to them being marginalised from wider society.
Megatron 5/19/2021 4:19:00 AM

@eli

Interesting. The Samane Abokor from Togdeer cohabit with Mahamed Abokor (HJ).

The individual I know is a coastal Samane from Hagal in eastern Sahil. I hope to convince him and a Magaadle relative from Dayaha village in Sanaag. I think Magaadle may turn out to be E-V32.

I have only seen one T-L208 Muse Abokor (Reer Yonis).

Bi’iide, Uduruhmiin etc that I’ve come into contact with on 23andme are E-V32.

Clans that formed post Islam seem to be confederacies as well to some degree. There’s already some evidence in regard to this matter.
eli 5/19/2021 5:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

Interesting. The Samane Abokor from Togdeer cohabit with Mahamed Abokor (HJ).

The individual I know is a coastal Samane from Hagal in eastern Sahil. I hope to convince him and a Magaadle relative from Dayaha village in Sanaag. I think Magaadle may turn out to be E-V32.

I have only seen one T-L208 Muse Abokor (Reer Yonis).

Bi’iide, Uduruhmiin etc that I’ve come into contact with on 23andme are E-V32.

Clans that formed post Islam seem to be confederacies as well to some degree. There’s already some evidence in regard to this matter.

That individual stated he is from Burco but we are non the wiser as to where his subclan's traditional territory is. Do all Samane subclans hail from one continuous clan territory?

I forgot to mention earlier, do not expect some clans to be less prone to adopting others. Dhulbahante and Ogaden are not coastal clans yet they both possess individuals with haplogroup J. Even the Garre in NFD/K5 possess haplogroup J. This could be an ancient J lineage found in the Horn but it demonstrates how Somali genetic genealogy is not cut and dry. There has been a lot of internal migration among Somalis. For instance, the Cali Sicid you referenced are claimed by Gaaljecel Samaales whilst the Cali Sicid counterclaim that the Xaji Saalax section of Gaaljecel are from them, Allah Yaclam.

Historically speaking, some clan members leave after falling out with other fellow clan members and assimilate into another clan. As centuries have gone by, it would not be unusual for the descendants of that disgruntled Shisheeye clan member to have become fully assimilated into the Abtirsi of the host clan. This would have been a common practice among Somalis as DNA is demonstrating, but some clans have been better at maintaining a distinction between those who are assimilated and those who are the core of the clan. The Ciise would be a good example of a clan that mainatains such a distinction. Moreover, the assimilated subclan lineage can even become numerically larger than other individual core subclan lineages. Hence, it is not also not wise to look at numerical dominance of one sub sub subclan etc. when investigating a subclan's genetic identity.

Do not also look at an individual's haplogroup as it is not helpful when trying to figure out how real a clan identity is. For instance, in contrast to the hypothesised Middle Eastern young Somali T lineage, Somali E-V32's are not all closely related so you could find individuals within the same subclan group who are both E-V32 but do not share a common ancestor for thousands of years. Hence, E-V32's Isaaqs will not be necessarily closely related. What you should be aiming for is to get as much individuals from your subclan who are E-V32 to do Big Y/Dante tests to get an idea how you are related to each, and what other Somalis/Horners you are closely related to.

When I say 'Post-Islam', I am referring to the centuries after we adopted Islam. IMO, these clans will not necessarily be confederacies but will have Sheegaads. For example, if a Muslim clan founder lived in the late 16th/early 17th century, long after we adopted Islam, the names in his descendants Abtirsi will have more Muslim names and it would not be illogical to assume that there is some truth to such an ancestor. I would therefore expect the DNA of a clan founded by such an ancestor to display a pattern whereby most of his descendant subclans will genetically cluster together.

Last edited by eli; 05-18-2021 at 11:22 PM.
drobbah 5/19/2021 6:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

The same is also true of Habar Awals who are not E-V32 as there are individuals from both Sacad and Ciise Muuse who have tested T but may not be loud about it because of genetic stereotypes being promoted on forums.

It is not a group thing but certain individuals have been very active in pushing that Clan X = Haplogroup X. This is evident even in this thread when there is a scarcity of Somali YFull results and people are indirectly labelling others Sheegaad. I am of the opinion that old clan identities which predate Islam such as Dir, Hawiye, Daarood etc. are confederacies. Nonetheless, clans which into existence after the adoption of Islam within the past 500 to 700 years or so are not necessarily confederacies. Larger subclans will most likely have adoptees but this will be better observed when the Somali YFull trees have more results.

Either way both clans are dominated by recent founder effects only difference is that the E-V32 Habar Awals seems to be a more solid clan with a recent medieval forefather unlike the Garxajis.The HY T on yfull from what I seen doesn't even share a subclade with the Ciidigale T lol
eli 5/19/2021 6:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Either way both clans are dominated by recent founder effects only difference is that the E-V32 Habar Awals seems to be a more solid clan with a recent medieval forefather unlike the Garxajis.The HY T on yfull from what I seen doesn't even share a subclade with the Ciidigale T lol

You are jumping the gun. There are two Habar Awal E-V32 samples. When you have obtained samples from all the subclans beneath each ancestor you can be firm in your stance.

The T HY has only an SNP difference with the Cidagalle and the tree has not yet been updated for TMRCA. The age of the lineage could decrease for all we know. Anyway, I am not Garxajis, so your 'lol' at their apparent distance from each other is misdirected.

The point I was making is that individuals push their theories as facts despite not having sufficient evidence. You can argue that there is a trend of results etc. but it is wiser to refrain from reaching overtly biased conclusions that are statistically unsound.
Megatron 5/19/2021 7:08:00 AM

@eli

Samane Abokor is a coastal clan from the Guban. A small section of that clan live in Togdeer and they were historically under Mahamed Abokor protection just like the Imran clan.

I’ve heard that Gaalje’el claim from Ali Said relatives but it sounds far fetched. It’s more likely that a sub clan within Gaalje’el is of Ali Said origin. Similar to the ties between the Ma’alinweyne sub clan of Rahanwayn and Arap & Sa’ad Muse.

Im going to order my kit this month so hopefully we’ll be able to solve some of the mystery. Personally I believe E-V32 Isaaq will belong to the same subclade.
drobbah 5/19/2021 7:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

You are jumping the gun. There are two Habar Awal E-V32 samples.

It's clear you are jumping the gun as you have no clue how many Habar Awals have taken the BigY or str tests.There are four HA that have taken the BigY and multiple others that have taken the str tests from SM subclans like Reer Samatar,Nuux Ismaciil etc.

When you have obtained samples from all the subclans beneath each ancestor you can be firm in your stance.

When a SM from Ethiopia/Gabiley shares a medieval recent ancestor with his CM clansmen from Toghdheer...that's not a coincidence bruv.When all the HA's from various subclans cluster tightly with each other it clearly proves that this clan has a shared medieval ancestor that lines up with our history.

The T HY has only an SNP difference with the Cidagalle and the tree has not yet been updated for TMRCA. The age of the lineage could decrease for all we know. Anyway, I am not Garxajis, so your 'lol' at their apparent distance from each other is misdirected.

The point I was making is that individuals push their theories as facts despite not having sufficient evidence. You can argue that there is a trend of results etc. but it is wiser to refrain from reaching overtly biased conclusions that are statistically unsound.

My point is that the Garxajis clan doesn't descend from a recent medieval ancestor to the exclusion of the Samarone or the Bah Gob sample unlike the Habar Awal which is dominated by a single medieval lineage E-BY75676 (8-900 ybp) while both me and my fellow Jibriil Abokor fall under E-FT385910 that has a tmrca roughly around 300 ybp.I agree with your point you made earlier about clans that were formed during the medieval era being more likely to have arabic names in their abtirsi.I would say 90% of the names in my abtirsi is of Arabic origin.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
eli 5/19/2021 8:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It's clear you are jumping the gun as you have no clue how many Habar Awals have taken the BigY or str tests.There are four HA that have taken the BigY and multiple others that have taken the str tests from SM subclans like Reer Samatar,Nuux Ismaciil etc.

When a SM from Ethiopia/Gabiley shares a medieval recent ancestor with his CM clansmen from Toghdheer...that's not a coincidence bruv.When all the HA's from various subclans cluster tightly with each other it clearly proves that this clan has a shared medieval ancestor that lines up with our history.

My point is that the Garxajis clan doesn't descend from a recent medieval ancestor to the exclusion of the Samarone or the Bah Gob sample unlike the Habar Awal which is dominated by a single medieval lineage E-BY75676 (8-900 ybp) while both me and my fellow Jibriil Abokor fall under E-FT385910 that has a tmrca roughly around 300 ybp.I agree with your point you made earlier about clans that were formed during the medieval era being more likely to have arabic names in their abtirsi.I would say 90% of the names in my abtirsi is of Arabic origin.

Allow me to elaborate on my statement.

Are the Habar Awal Big Y samples and FTDNA samples all from the Abokor sub subclan lineage apart from the Ciise Muuse? Reer Samatar, Nux....etc. are sub sub subs. You all come together at Abokor.

If so, then how is it representative of all the Sacad and Ciise Muuse immediate subclans?

How many numerically smaller but genealogically old Habar Awal samples have been tested on Ftdna?

If non apart from the Abokor lineage of yours and the sole Ciise Muuse then it is still not representative of the clan statistically speaking.

Furthermore, 900 years is a long time ago. What if there are other Eastern Horner samples etc. who are closer to the Abokors than the Ciise Muuse thus affecting your YFull tree? A lot of things could have happened in the 600 years between Abokor's lineage and the supposed Habar Awal ancestor.

As for this corroborating your clan's History, we were not a written society that can point to particular historical records such as birth registers etc. as proof of ancestry, all we possess is oral History. Do you have textual evidence pointing to an ancestor who lived in the Middle Ages and had the name 'Sacad Muuse'? See my point.

Regarding the Muslim names, I did not mean every name has to be Muslim etc. You got the gist anyway.

Last edited by eli; 05-19-2021 at 02:13 AM.
drobbah 5/19/2021 8:14:00 AM

Whether his name was Muuse or John Smith is besides the point.There is proof that the majority of Habar Awal descend from a single man who lived during the 12th or 13th century unlike Garxajis.
Megatron 5/19/2021 5:21:00 PM

@eli

If we’re going to question the existence of a Sa’ad Muse or HA ancestor because of the absence of recorded history then we should also question the existence of mythical ancestors such as Dir. You claim that Dir is a pre Islam clan but there is no recorded history proving this to be the case.
Megatron 5/19/2021 5:33:00 PM

Hopefully other HJ E-V32 will take the Big-Y. I believe we will form our own subclade maybe under E-BY155996.
Sakhar 5/19/2021 9:41:00 PM

I believe it is highly unwise to speculate and go into absolutes without the full picture about clans and subclans in relation to their shared ancestor. As more individual samples of DNA from clan members come in a picture will emerge and prognosis can be made but no absolutes until there is a big enough sample of clans and subclans but we are not there yet and those who did DNA testing are of a few clans and subclans and on top others have hidden certain criteria or are not disclosing their clans/subclans which makes it harder to define these clans to their shared ancestor or validity of their subclan. This is a process and will take some time because of the affordability and accessibility of these DNA tests!
eli 5/20/2021 1:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

If we’re going to question the existence of a Sa’ad Muse or HA ancestor because of the absence of recorded history then we should also question the existence of mythical ancestors such as Dir. You claim that Dir is a pre Islam clan but there is no recorded history proving this to be the case.

I have never once claimed that a mythical Dir clan ancestor was alive at a particular period if History. In this thread, and elsewhere, I have already asserted that I think old clan identities are confederacies.

Macro Somali clan identities such as Dir, Hawiye, Daarood, Samaale are embedded in the clan myths of Somalis. The oral History of diverse clans testify towards the existence of such clan identities. For instance, both Hawiye and Daarood associate with Dir ancestrally speaking, and vice versa. Moreover, the names of the these macro-clan ancestors are clearly not Islamic nor are most of the immediate subclans associated with these clan identities. It can therefore be logically assumed that these macro clan identities were probably in existence during pre-Islamic times. For instance, if subclans such as Gugura, Geri, Marehan, Harti, Barsug/Barsub, Karanle were fielding armies in the 15th century, any marco clan identity they belonged to must be older than the purported date Islam reached Somalis around the 12th century when missionaries such as AwBarkhadle started propagating Islam to us.

I did not argue with Drobbah that no ancestor named Sacad Muuse etc. existed, I just pointed out to him the stupidity of his claim that an ancestor lived in the century that he claimed when there is no solid historical evidence whatsoever allowing him claim such an ancestor existed in that particular time period. Read my post carefully before making assumptions. Moreover, he tried to pass off the test results of his Abokor lineage as being representative of all Habar Awals, which again is a statistically folly stance.

Sorry I did not address your previous reply.

Congrats on taking the Big Y.

You have often made statements saying you 'personally' believe results will go the way you want as in the Samane Abokor etc. without explaining the scientific reasoning behind such a stance. What makes you think you will be closely related to the Isaaq E-V32's? Have you done an STR test yet? Compared STR's? Check with Drobbah and Lank as to how close they are to each other. If I am not mistaken, the Muuse Dhariye sample and Lank are closer to each than they are to Drobbah. If you belong to the same lineage group as Lank, then I am not sure if you will be related to Drobbah within the past 900 years etc. but check with him and Lank for confirmation.

Last edited by eli; 05-19-2021 at 07:31 PM.
drobbah 5/20/2021 1:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

I did not argue with Drobbah that no ancestor named Sacad Muuse etc. existed, I just pointed out to him the stupidity of his claim that an ancestor lived in the century that he claimed when there is no solid historical evidence whatsoever allowing him claim such an ancestor existed in that particular time period. Read my post carefully before making assumptions. Moreover, he tried to pass off the test results of his Abokor lineage as being representative of all Habar Awals, which again is a statistically folly stance.

The tmrca I mentioned is based on a SM & a CM (subclade E-BY75676) not two Abokors smh.My fellow Jibriil Abokor and I belong to a downstream subclade exclusive to us.There's also another E-BY75676*, you're not making any sense here bud.I never claimed that we found scientific Subeyr (progenitor of the clan) but rather Muuse which is the ancestor of the vast majority of the Habar Awal today.Muuse (E-By75676) whether you want to admit is the clan progenitor of the Sacad Muuse & Cisse Muuse clan rendering the minor T as assimilated sheegatos.

You have often made statements saying you 'personally' believe results will go the way you want as in the Samane Abokor etc. without explaining the scientific reasoning behind such a stance. What makes you think you will be closely related to the Isaaq E-V32's? Have you done an STR test yet? Compared STR's? Check with Drobbah and Lank as to how close they are to each other. If I am not mistaken, the Muuse Dhariye sample and Lank are closer to each than they are to Drobbah. If you belong to the same lineage group as Lank, then I am not sure if you will be related to Drobbah within the past 900 years etc. but check with him and Lank for confirmation.

I highly doubt that, I think the non-HA Isaaq samples will fall under E-BY155996 but not the downstream Habar Awal E-BY75676.Strs can sometimes be misleading as an Iraqi sample is very similar to us HA but belonged to E-Y17749 (which is a Sudanese/Northern Horn branch).I think the Musa Dhariyo and that HJ sample sample will be E-BY155996+ which is an old lineage around 2.7k old.We already have an Ashraaf sample from Merka who's E-BY155996*

Last edited by drobbah; 05-19-2021 at 07:53 PM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
Megatron 5/20/2021 2:52:00 AM

@eli

You’re still assuming that these clan identities existed in pre-Islamic times based on oral history but you’re asking for textual evidence in regard to Drobbah’s claim which is disingenuous.

I believe we should use oral history as a metric despite the inaccuracies associated with this method of preserving history.

All the results I have seen on 23andme from the Guban and broader Sahil region have been E-V32. Based on that trend, Samane Abokor should turn out to be E-V32. It’s not about what I want or do not want..
eli 5/20/2021 4:42:00 AM

Drobbah

Look at my previous posts. I took the Ciise Muuse into consideration when I made my statement. My rebuttal to you was in a series of questions which highlighted how you based your assertion that the Habar Awal lineage will be 'X' because Abokor subclans and the single Ciise Muuse sample match. I do not dispute that these results are a positive indicator that a Habar Awal lineage could be identified with these results, however, it would be haste to do so firmly without genealogically older and more representative samples from the wider Habar Awal clan. All the subclans you listed previously are, with the exception of 1 Ciise Muuse, from a sub sub sub subclan which is only a couple hundreds of years old. Like I have said more than once, that is statistically unsound when one considers how the Harti Daarood YFull tree etc. has demonstrated Somali genetic genealogy is not clear cut.
eli 5/20/2021 5:41:00 AM

@Megatron

I asked a rhetorical question to demonstrate how he cannot make absolutist statements about the supposed existence of his clan ancestor at a particular time period. He never claimed oral History alone states that his ancestor lived 900 years ago etc. nor did I challenge him on such a claim. Drobbah simply stated that Habar Awal DNA matches the History of his clan. I simply stated that it is not possible to assign a date to the existence of his clan ancestor to a particular time period due to lack of firm written evidence.

Furthermore, I did not state my oral History talks about the existence of a pre-Islamic Dir clan identity. I based that on my own analysis of Somali clan names, the purported date of Somalis being converted to Islam, the oldest written text which lists Somali clans (Futuh Al Habash) and the genetic genealogy age of certain Somalis DNA lineages. I also never tried to pass this off as fact but spoke hypothetically, whereas Drobbah, was firm in his statement that History stated his clan ancestor lived at so and so date. You are comparing apples to oranges and inserting yourself into a debate which you do not seem to have acquired a grasp of.

Lastly, you are making amateur mistakes when discussing DNA lineages by assuming that because Samane Abokor live on the coast they should be E-V32 because some neighbouring clans are according to your observations. How is that logical when there has been a constant movement of people in Northern Somalia with people of diverse lineages neighbouring each other. For instance, Isaaq T's are very closely related to Samarons, and to an extent, Ciise T's too. These lineages do not really border each other yet they share the same ancestor going back around a millennium or so. At some point in History, they all neighboured each other and came under the same clan lineage but they parted ways and do not have a direct land border.

Closer to home, you stated that the main lineage of Maxamed Abokor is haplogroup T. If I am not mistaken, before migrating South all the way to Hawd, Maxamed Abokor and Samane Abokor were coastal clans and some still inhabit the Saxil area bordering the Ciise Muuse. Hence, your assertion that Saxil Habar Jeclo clans should be E-V32 is illogical because the coastal area would have been genetically mixed historically speaking. If there are still Maxamed Abokor T subclans inhabiting the area, how can you deduce that Samane Abokor will be E-V32 when all Samane Abokor have coastal origins and it is very possible that the T haplogroup Samane Abokor example I gave you will not be uncommon among the clan just like how Haplogroup T is common among Maxamed Abokor?

It is not wise to assume that geography could be the main deciding factor in the Y-dna make-up of Northern Somalia as there is currently no clear demarcation where T ends and E-V32 begins in the Coastal area.

Last edited by eli; 05-19-2021 at 11:57 PM.
NetNomad 5/20/2021 4:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

They are definitely a lot more E-V32 and other E-M78 lineages among us Isaaq.We just need more people from various subclans especially the smaller ones to take the test.I think the vast majority of Isaaqs will be E-BY155996+,T-FGC92488,E-V22,E-M78*,E-V16 and probably some J1-P58 as well.Tbh I think Isaaqs will end up being the most diverse "Somali" clan in Somaliweyn when it comes to indigenous pre-medieval lineages.

I think there will be rare non-E-Y18629 lineages in all areas of Somaliweyn (mostly various E-M35 types). Trombetta et al. 2015 found 1 E-Y5874 carrier out of the just 5 people he sampled from Puntland. In the study it says E-V1792, but on yfull it is roughly equivalent to Y5874 (checked with isogg). It is distantly related to E-M293.

Likely the areas with more rainfall in Somaliweyn will have a higher diversity of Ys (Western Somaliland, Somalia to the South of Galgaduud). This pattern is true for the Middle East (Levant vs Arabia – discounting the recent cosmopolitan origin lineages in Arabia).
Omaar 5/20/2021 5:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I think there will be rare non-E-Y18629 lineages in all areas of Somaliweyn (mostly various E-M35 types). Trombetta et al. 2015 found 1 E-Y5874 carrier out of the just 5 people he sampled from Puntland. In the study it says E-V1792, but on yfull it is roughly equivalent to Y5874 (checked with isogg). It is distantly related to E-M293.

Likely the areas with more rainfall in Somaliweyn will have a higher diversity of Ys (Western Somaliland, Somalia to the South of Galgaduud). This pattern is true for the Middle East (Levant vs Arabia – discounting the recent cosmopolitan origin lineages in Arabia).

E-M215 in East Africa- Trombetta (2015)

Somali , Djibouti (N=40)-> - E-V32;25.0%

Somali , Ethiopia (N=12)-> E-V2881*;16.7%, - E-V22;8.3%, - E-V32;25.0%

Somali , Somalia (N=5)-> E-V1792;20%, - E-V32;80.0%

Somali, Kenya (N=6) -> E-V2881*;16.7% , E-V6;16.7% , - E-V32;66.7%

For comparison

Tigre, Eritrea (N=5)-> E-V1515*;20.0% - E-V6;20.0% -E-V32;60.0%

Nara, Eritrea (N=15)->E-V1515*;13.3% - E-V1486*;6.7% - E-V42;13.3% - E-V6;6.7% - E-V22;6.7% - E-V32;13.3%

Cumana, Eritrea (N=20)-> E-V2881*;5.0% - E-V42;15.0% - E-V1785*;10.0% - E-V6;5.0% - E-M34;5.0% - E-V22;5.0% - E-V32;20.0%

Saho, Eritrea (N=94)-> E-V6;8.5% - E-M34;1.1%- E-V22;88.3% - - E-V6;6.7% - - E-V1083*;1.1%

Afar, Djibouti (N=25)-> - E-V6;56.0%, - E-M34;4.0%.

Source:ETHIO HELIX
drobbah 5/20/2021 9:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I think there will be rare non-E-Y18629 lineages in all areas of Somaliweyn (mostly various E-M35 types). Trombetta et al. 2015 found 1 E-Y5874 carrier out of the just 5 people he sampled from Puntland. In the study it says E-V1792, but on yfull it is roughly equivalent to Y5874 (checked with isogg). It is distantly related to E-M293.

Likely the areas with more rainfall in Somaliweyn will have a higher diversity of Ys (Western Somaliland, Somalia to the South of Galgaduud). This pattern is true for the Middle East (Levant vs Arabia – discounting the recent cosmopolitan origin lineages in Arabia).

The only results from the cultivating communities in Ethiopia (extension of Gabiley/Awdal) I have seen are the Samarone & Jibriil Abokor who both don't seem diverse at all, the Cisse as well don't seem diverse either besides the occasional Afar E-V6.I haven't seen any results from the Jidwaaq clans,Geri & Barsuug tho so it's to early to tell.The non E-V32 & T-M70 lineages in SL seems to be concentrated in central & eastern Somaliland & Ethio Hawd.Puntland & the Eastern Sanaag & Eastern Sool seems to be where J1 peaks in Somaliweyn but I'm not sure if those J-P58 are pre-Islamic or medieval or perhaps a mix of both.
Awale 5/20/2021 10:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The only results from the cultivating communities in Ethiopia (extension of Gabiley/Awdal) I have seen are the Samarone & Jibriil Abokor who both don't seem diverse at all, the Cisse as well don't seem diverse either besides the occasional Afar E-V6.I haven't seen any results from the Jidwaaq clans,Geri & Barsuug tho so it's to early to tell.The non E-V32 & T-M70 lineages in SL seems to be concentrated in central & eastern Somaliland & Ethio Hawd.Puntland & the Eastern Sanaag & Eastern Sool seems to be where J1 peaks in Somaliweyn but I'm not sure if those J-P58 are pre-Islamic or medieval or perhaps a mix of both.

How many samples have people actually seen from eastern Sanaag & Bari who turn up J-P58? I remember having at least 2-3 such relatives myself on 23andme but only really see 1 reer Sanaag chap on yFull.

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drobbah 5/20/2021 11:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Awale

How many samples have people actually seen from eastern Sanaag & Bari who turn up J-P58? I remember having at least 2-3 such relatives myself on 23andme but only really see 1 reer Sanaag chap on yFull.

I have seen a handful on 23&me and ftdna but I think J-P58 will also start turning up in non-Harti Landers perhaps among specific small subsections of major Isaaq subclans and the artisinal castes.I remember Megatron said he was in a contact with a Habar Jeclo J-P58.

That lone Somali J-P58 samples has a 2300 ybp tmrca with a Yemeni from San3a & a Saudi.If it was medieval you would think he would fall under the Mahra/Omani dominated branches.Perhaps J-P58 in the Northern parts of Somaliweyn is older than we think.Perhaps it might explain the Ancient Yemenite inscriptions in SL.

Does anyone know if the Afar J1 is mostly P56 or P58?

Last edited by drobbah; 05-20-2021 at 05:08 PM.
Awale 5/20/2021 11:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I have seen a handful on 23&me and ftdna but I think J-P58 will also start turning up in non-Harti Landers perhaps among specific small subsections of major Isaaq subclans and the artisinal castes.I remember Megatron said he was in a contact with a Habar Jeclo J-P58.

That lone Somali J-P58 samples has a 2300 ybp tmrca with a Yemeni from San3a & a Saudi.If it was medieval you would think he would fall under the Mahra/Omani dominated branches.Perhaps J-P58 in the Northern parts of Somaliweyn is older than we think.Perhaps it might explain the Ancient Yemenite inscriptions in SL.

Does anyone know if the Afar J1 is mostly P56 or P58?

No idea regarding the Afar but I've always assumed their clades will likely align with Habeshas. Despite what Lank and I noticed years ago regarding the error in Pagani et al. regarding listing what were seemingly Xamir Agaws as "Afar", when I contacted Pagani he seemed to think this was in fact a mistake the other way around and removed the info about Xamtanga speakers and I think I saw some later Afar samples that looked similar to those old ones. Afar Y-DNA diversity, once you account for the elevated E-V6 also looks pretty similar to Highland Ethiopian groups. This is why I kept pointing that out in the other thread. Afars look genetically like what one might expect of reer Awdal and reer Woqooyi if they really did assimilate swathes of Southern Ethiosemites which doesn't seem to be the case.

Originally Posted by drobbah

That lone Somali J-P58 samples has a 2300 ybp tmrca with a Yemeni from San3a & a Saudi.If it was medieval you would think he would fall under the Mahra/Omani dominated branches.Perhaps J-P58 in the Northern parts of Somaliweyn is older than we think.Perhaps it might explain the Ancient Yemenite inscriptions in SL.

Fair point. But, to be just a bit off-topic, I wish people like Sade Mire would publish what the inscriptions they've seen actually look like more often, though. There have been scholarly writings about inscriptions all over the north from Bari to Awdal going way back and many posited that some of the inscriptions were unique and not necessarily Musnad and when I showed Agamemnon this he pointed out that they didn't look like any Musnad characters he knew which, upon really looking, I agree with. And then there's the weird spread of all the ancient inscriptions. They're found everywhere, even in caves under the old pastoral cave paintings, supposedly. Doesn't sound like something foreigners who'd mostly stay by the coastal towns would do. We might be seeing a situation in northern Somali territory similar to how Arabia used to be in the period before Islam where a large segment of the population, including the nomads, surprisingly knew how to read and write and left inscriptions of various sorts everywhere. Agamemnon once pointed out to me that it would be hard to believe that the coastal Cushites of the classical era didn't have some form of writing in their towns given that they were constantly trading with Greco-Romans, Indians, Arabians and so forth. He might be right and our ancient predecessors may have adapted something from Musnad. I mean our ancestors certainly wasted no time adopting Arabic as a writing system and written language during the Islamic period so who knows.

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Megatron 5/21/2021 1:59:00 AM

@eli

The point is, you can not invoke textual evidence as the standard metric when you engage in pseudo history. The statement that Samaale, Dir etc are pre-Islamic clan groupings is false because there is no evidence supporting it. Wether you used deductive reasoning or not is irrelevant.

All the results I have seen and matched with from eastern Sahil including my own Mahamed Abokor have been E-V32. So my personal forecast was based on the expected outcome not my own desire because it doesn’t benefit me in any way if Samane is T-L208 or E-V32.

I disagree.. apart from the documented migrations of Somalis, the other alleged migrations based on oral history must be scrutinized. Your example is also quite baseless because I could sire children in different parts of the same country without them ever getting to know one another. The idea that Isaaq T’s and Samarone T’s and Iise T’s lived in the same area and were (allegedly) part of the same clan grouping is based on your own assumption.

With that said, let’s not derail the thread m8.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-20-2021 at 08:03 PM.
eli 5/21/2021 2:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

The point is, you can not invoke textual evidence as the standard metric when you engage in pseudo history. The statement that Samaale, Dir etc are pre-Islamic clan groupings is false because there is no evidence supporting it. Wether you used deductive reasoning or not is irrelevant.

All the results I have seen and matched with from eastern Sahil including my own Mahamed Abokor have been E-V32. So my personal forecast was based on the expected outcome not my own desire because it doesn’t benefit me in any way if Samane is T-L208 or E-V32.

I disagree.. apart from the documented migrations of Somalis, the other alleged migrations based on oral history must be scrutinized. Your example is also quite baseless because I could sire children in different parts of the same country without them ever getting to know one another. The idea that Isaaq T’s and Samarone T’s and Iise T’s lived in the same area and were (allegedly) part of the same clan grouping is based on your own assumption.

With that said, let’s not derail the thread m8.

Yes, it can be false as to whether they are pre-Islamic confederacies, hence, why I stated it is a theory, not a fact. However, your statement comparing my theory to Drobbah's assertion that History matches his DNA lineage is comparing apples and oranges. Drobbah never stated his 'History' was a theory so what are you getting at?

The results you have seen are subjective not authoritative. As I highlighted, both Samane and Mahamed Abokoor were coastal clans who migrated South so there is no scientific reasoning which can indicate what their respective Haplogroup breakdown will be based on their current residence. Clans did not migrate along Haplogroup lines especially if they were mixed to begin with as you have already demonstrated with your statement that Maxamamed Abokor possess E-V32 but their main lineage might be T. How can anyone tell they divided themselves along Haplogroup groups when they left the Saxil coast and migrated South in recent History?

It is a logical assumption to make that Samaron and Isaaq T's who belong to the same subclade currently identified on YFull lived in the same area and belonged to the same clan grouping as they would clearly have been sired by a single individual who would not have lived in isolation. Pastoral Cushitic ethnic groups were tribal even before the advent of Islam as is evident in the neighbouring Oromo ethnic group. Hence, there is migratory evidence indicating their lineage became dispersed throughout Northern Somalia. For instance, my own Somali T subclade is now found in both Hiiraan and Mudug. Both samples belong to the same clan yet they do not border each other and have not for centuries even though they both descend from the same ancestor according to y-dna YFull results.

Yeah, let's not derail the thread. Back to genetics, you stated that Isaaq E-V32's will be close and I asked you what was the reasoning behind that statement. You still haven't elaborated how you came to that conclusion. Drobbah was kind enough to point out that if you share the same lineage as your fellow Habar Jeclo Lank, you will not be close. What were you basing your assumption that Isaaq E-V32's will be closely related? Geographical proximity?
Mirix 5/21/2021 3:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

No idea regarding the Afar but I've always assumed their clades will likely align with Habeshas. Despite what Lank and I noticed years ago regarding the error in Pagani et al. regarding listing what were seemingly Xamir Agaws as "Afar", when I contacted Pagani he seemed to think this was in fact a mistake the other way around and removed the info about Xamtanga speakers and I think I saw some later Afar samples that looked similar to those old ones. Afar Y-DNA diversity, once you account for the elevated E-V6 also looks pretty similar to Highland Ethiopian groups. This is why I kept pointing that out in the other thread. Afars look genetically like what one might expect of reer Awdal and reer Woqooyi if they really did assimilate swathes of Southern Ethiosemites which doesn't seem to be the case.

Fair point. But, to be just a bit off-topic, I wish people like Sade Mire would publish what the inscriptions they've seen actually look like more often, though. There have been scholarly writings about inscriptions all over the north from Bari to Awdal going way back and many posited that some of the inscriptions were unique and not necessarily Musnad and when I showed Agamemnon this he pointed out that they didn't look like any Musnad characters he knew which, upon really looking, I agree with. And then there's the weird spread of all the ancient inscriptions. They're found everywhere, even in caves under the old pastoral cave paintings, supposedly. Doesn't sound like something foreigners who'd mostly stay by the coastal towns would do. We might be seeing a situation in northern Somali territory similar to how Arabia used to be in the period before Islam where a large segment of the population, including the nomads, surprisingly knew how to read and write and left inscriptions of various sorts everywhere. Agamemnon once pointed out to me that it would be hard to believe that the coastal Cushites of the classical era didn't have some form of writing in their towns given that they were constantly trading with Greco-Romans, Indians, Arabians and so forth. He might be right and our ancient predecessors may have adapted something from Musnad. I mean our ancestors certainly wasted no time adopting Arabic as a writing system and written language during the Islamic period so who knows.

Show Spoiler

Agamemnon may very well be right writing is needed for record keeping for trade,business, and inventory etc. According to Roman writer Pliny the Elder one of the coastal ports like Bulhar , which he called the port of Isis had two inside gates one which had stone monements that were engraved in some unknown letters. Anthropos

Port of Isis ( Bulhar ) the next place of call . Off this roadstead were two islands called Pseudopilae , where PLINY says there were found “ stone stelae inscribed with unknown letters ” .

Wouldn't be surprising if they wrote on some earlier Musnad scripts. It makes sense considering the geography and their neighbors. They may also be the posibility some of those writings were left by visitors. Because Sada Mire said she also found Tiffnagh writing. Which i found odd. But then again unlike it, those other inscriptions look like some proto letters and widely distributed across the interior and inside caves for it to be migrants or visitors. For example In Laas Gaal, near Hargeysa, there are as many as 600 inscriptions in the scene; and in the Lag Oda, near Dirir Dhabe, there are about 800 of them. But these are only a few places that are investigated. They are also all over the place in Somaliland & Puntland found in i different Taalos(Stone mounds) , rocks and ancient burials etc , and in other caves.

Then there is also this potential script posted by Robert Kulvjer on this stone tablet.

Hopefully when they open up the new Somaliland museum we will finally get some information on the nature of them as they will be available to experts. And decipher whats actually written in them.

Dr Ahmad Al-Jallad said that the different Arab writing scripts used in Arabia fell out of use because they were associated with pagan religions. Aramaic script was adopted because of its dissociation and in the beginning they only wrote in the Aramaic language, then slowly adopted the script for Arabic. Possible what happened in Northern Somali coast scripts when Islam & other religions came to the horn it was replaced by Arabic script because the old ones was associated paganism , they began develope similarly with Wadaad writing. Who knows maybe they started to write many ajami texts with it before it had an abrupt end in the late 16th collapse. Before a revival 2 centuries later.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-20-2021 at 10:18 PM.
Megatron 5/21/2021 4:11:00 AM

@eli

Your statement was not presented as a theory and that makes it disingenuous.

Not once have I claimed that my observation was authoritative lol.

T seem to be the main lineage based on preliminary results but as I stated before, I’ve seen a handful of Mahamed Abokor E-V32 from Sahil and Hawd. Including different Ahmed Farah sub clans. If Ahmed Farah is predominantly E-V32 then there is no doubt that Mahamed Abokor’s main lineage will be E-V32 since they would tip the scale.

Can you actually prove that Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s belonged to the same clan grouping at any point in time or that they dispersed from the same area. Their TMRCA is 1000ybp. There was a Libyan individual sharing a MRCA with a Somali that was estimated to be 500ybp. One individual that migrated and sired offspring in different parts of Africa. Who’s to say that couldn’t happen in present day Somaliland or any other part of the Somali peninsula?

I have my own theory about Isaaq E-V32 that I’ll share once I get my results.
eli 5/21/2021 5:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

Your statement was not presented as a theory and that makes it disingenuous.

Not once have I claimed that my observation was authoritative lol.

T seem to be the main lineage based on preliminary results but as I stated before, I’ve seen a handful of Mahamed Abokor E-V32 from Sahil and Hawd. Including different Ahmed Farah sub clans. If Ahmed Farah is predominantly E-V32 then there is no doubt that Mahamed Abokor’s main lineage will be E-V32 since they would tip the scale.

Can you actually prove that Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s belonged to the same clan grouping at any point in time or that they dispersed from the same area. Their TMRCA is 1000ybp. There was a Libyan individual sharing a MRCA with a Somali that was estimated to be 500ybp. One individual that migrated and sired offspring in different parts of Africa. Who’s to say that couldn’t happen in present day Somaliland or any other part of the Somali peninsula?

I have my own theory about Isaaq E-V32 that I’ll share once I get my results.

I clearly stated in my initial reply to Almagest that my ideas about the pagan identity of old Somali clans were an opinion, not a fact. Please, read my posts carefully before making stupid assumptions.

Originally Posted by eli

The same is also true of Habar Awals who are not E-V32 as there are individuals from both Sacad and Ciise Muuse who have tested T but may not be loud about it because of genetic stereotypes being promoted on forums.

It is not a group thing but certain individuals have been very active in pushing that Clan X = Haplogroup X. This is evident even in this thread when there is a scarcity of Somali YFull results and people are indirectly labelling others Sheegaad. I am of the opinion that old clan identities which predate Islam such as Dir, Hawiye, Daarood etc. are confederacies. Nonetheless, clans which into existence after the adoption of Islam within the past 500 to 700 years or so are not necessarily confederacies. Larger subclans will most likely have adoptees but this will be better observed when the Somali YFull trees have more results.

In contrast, Drobbah did not pass of his assertion as an opinion, hence, why I picked on his intransigent stance. See why I have repeatedly stated that you have been comparing apples and oranges?

I never assumed you were making an authoritative statement about the results you had come across. It would be silly of me to expect you to have information on every clan member of yours who has done a 23andme test etc. thus why I shared the Samane Abokor test result with you.

The Libyan analogy you presented is folly as he clearly has a Somali lineage in a non-Somali ethnic group. The Isaaq, Ciise and Samaron have historically been neighbouring clans who belong to the same ethnic group and their T bearing individuals tested so far share a common ancestry. Unlike the Libyan analogy, there is nothing out of the ordinary in them sharing the same paternal ancestry. Furthermore, considering that pastoralism has an ancient history among Somalis, it is within reason to conclude that around 1000 years ago, the ancestor of the T Isaaqs; Samarons etc. would have been part of the same pastoral clan unit.

As you are questioning my reasoning, may I ask why you never raised an objection when Drobbah propagated the more unorthodox idea that the various E1b1b lineages, including yours, found in North-Western Somalia were assimilated into the Samaale ethnic group by a nomadic clan consisting of the T bearing ancestors of the above clans who migrated West from areas further East?

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-FT18121 only has three branches.My current theory is that E-Y18637 is associated with the mythical Samaale Somali speaking camel herders and their expansion all over Somaliweyn.

E-BY155996 represents the urbanized non-Somali population of Western Somaliland.I think the Isaaq clan was an assimilation process between the dominant Somali nomads (Mostly T carrying Dir from Sanaag) with the farming and merchant locals after the collapse of the medieval state of Adal.While the artisinal castes were subjugated under a caste system.Sada Miire has interesting theory that Yibir for example is actually an Ethio-Semitic word for tax collecting.

E-Y163928 would represent the urban population possibly non-Somali population of Sanaag who were Somalianized.The fact that Daarood always had the tradition they weren't Samaale and the story of marrying a wife of Dir imo seems to suggest they were Somalianized by E-BY8081 and local T lineages.I think someone here posted about a village of Ogaden men in Ethiopia who were majority T-M70+

Some Somali clans by the time of the Futuh were living within the Sultanate of Adal but the vast majority didn't.Some of the clans that lived there are Gerri Koombe (Daarood),Yabarre (Daarood),Habar Maqdi (possibly Samarone),Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Arab & Ayuub).Mareexaan lived on the periphery and so did the Harti (people of Maydh).When the Marexaan killed the Adalite messenger he fled to what the chronicler called the land of the Somalis where the Hawiye lived.The incursions of these clans into the territory of the Sultanate Western & Central Somaliland & Hawd was probably when the nomads ultimately became Muslims imo (13th century)

Some sources about medieval Somaliland from StateHorn

Show Spoiler

Why wait for your results to come out? Drop your theory so we may at least have an understanding of your thought process. Give us the opportunity to critique your theory?

Last edited by eli; 05-20-2021 at 11:42 PM.
drobbah 5/21/2021 7:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

Yeah, let's not derail the thread. Back to genetics, you stated that Isaaq E-V32's will be close and I asked you what was the reasoning behind that statement. You still haven't elaborated how you came to that conclusion. Drobbah was kind enough to point out that if you share the same lineage as your fellow Habar Jeclo Lank, you will not be close. What were you basing your assumption that Isaaq E-V32's will be closely related? Geographical proximity?

Lank is an Eritrean dude but I don't think there's anything wrong in assuming Isaaqs will roughly fall under E-BY155996 since the various E-V32 subclades mostly (there are outliers) correspond with the confederation the Somali belongs too like E-Y163928 being dominated by the Harti + Ogaden (Daaroods).Do I think the Habar Jeclo will fall under the HA E-BY75676, not at all, but E-BY155996 is an old lineage (2700 year old) and we are likely to see a lot of substructure once those E-V32 non-HA Isaaqs or perhaps even Southern Dir E-V32 members take the BigY. Based on strs I think that Muse Dhariyo sample & lavrok as well will likely fall under E-BY155996.

Originally Posted by eli

I clearly stated in my initial reply to Almagest that my ideas about the pagan identity of old Somali clans were an opinion, not a fact. Please, read my posts carefully before making stupid assumptions.

In contrast, Drobbah did not pass of his assertion as an opinion, hence, why I picked on his intransigent stance. See why I have repeatedly stated that you have been comparing apples and oranges?

The thing is that part of having discussions entails that sometimes people are likely to have differing viewpoints and opinions. I have never presented my predictions as facts brother and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong and educated once we have concrete evidence.

it is within reason to conclude that around 1000 years ago, the ancestor of the T Isaaqs; Samarons etc. would have been part of the same pastoral clan unit.

But's it's not ok for the Habar Awal to come to the same conclusion that they are mostly likely recently related and belonged to the same pastoral unit 800-900 years ago because we might need more CM samples since according to you one isn't good enough (I agree with you, we need more) but 1 samarone sample is good enough to represent that whole clan? There are 5 T-FGC92488 (that I have seen maybe there's more of them idk) and 4 HA E-BY75676 with an even younger lineage yet you can make the claim of recent heritage but the Habar Awal can't. Seems like a double standard if you ask me.

Last edited by drobbah; 05-21-2021 at 01:21 AM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
eli 5/21/2021 8:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Lank is an Eritrean dude but I don't think there's anything wrong in assuming Isaaqs will roughly fall under E-BY155996 since the various E-V32 subclades mostly (there are outliers) correspond with the confederation the Somali belongs too like E-Y163928 being dominated by the Harti + Ogaden (Daaroods).Do I think the Habar Jeclo will fall under the HA E-BY75676, not at al but E-BY155996 is an old lineage (2700 year old) and we are likely to see a lot of substructure once those E-V32 non-HA Isaaqs or perhaps even Southern Dir E-V32 members take the BigY.Based on strs I think that Muse Dhariyo sample & lavrok as well will likely fall under E-BY155996.

Thanks for the clarification regarding Lank.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a theory. I have already made it plain to you in the Y16897 thread that I do not necessarily think that clan myths, including my own, are compatible with genetic genealogy. As a matter of fact, it is I who suggested to you that there is a possibility that your E-V32 subclade might be found among Dir E-V32's; the Muuse Dhariye sample is an example of this. Moreover, I do not think it is reasonable to make statements about genetic genealogy without at least presenting a logical case as to why one thinks results will go a certain why. You have made a case which can be challenged or accepted. However, in Megatron's case, it is intellectual cowardice to make a statement saying Isaaq E-V32's will be closely matched without presenting a theory forward. How can you be critical of others when you are not willing to have your own ideas critiqued?

Originally Posted by drobbah

The thing is that part of having discussions entails that sometimes people are likely to have differing viewpoints and opinions. I have never presented my predictions as facts brother and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong and educated once we have concrete evidence.

Let us keep it real bro. Not at one point did you make an attempt to pass off your initial statement about your clan's history as an opinion or theory. My initial statement to Almagest might not have been explanatory enough but I made it plainly clear in subsequent posts that I was speaking hypothetically. Hence, why I was questioning why Megatron was injecting himself into a conversation which he obviously misread.

Moroever, you replied to my Almagest comment with all guns blazing. I never denied that there is trend particularly regarding the Abokor and the Ciise Muuse samples. When I asked for any textual evidence regarding your claims, it was rhetorical. The point I was trying to prove is that don't be overzealous in assigning a date to the existence of your shared ancestor with Almagest in light of the fact that Somalis as a whole do not have any firm evidence of when our respective distant subclan ancestors lived. Your reply to my rhetorical question was not mature at all, you put up a defensive wall and refused to address the questions I posed to you. Moreover, you kept bringing Garxajis into our exchange. What have they got to do with our conversation? I am not Garxajis! Your clan ego was getting the better of you for some reason bro. For what it matters, the Abokoor lineage looks legit in my opinion and I ain't trying to cast doubt on the possibility that other Ciise Muuse and Sacad Muuse E-V32 samples will share the same post-millennium ancestor. All I am saying is play the long game before fully committing to a stance. For instance, look at how the Maxamud Saleeban Harti samples have already thrown us a curve ball with one Cusman Maxamud sample matching Cumar Maxamud rather than the other Cusman Maxamuds.

Originally Posted by drobbah

But's it's not ok for the Habar Awal to come to the same conclusion that they are mostly likely recently related and belonged to the same pastoral unit 800-900 years ago because we might need more CM samples since according to you one isn't good enough (I agree with you, we need more) but 1 samarone sample is good enough to represent that whole clan? There are 5 T-FGC92488 (that I have seen maybe there's more of them idk) and 4 HA E-BY75676 with an even younger lineage yet you can make the claim of recent heritage but the Habar Awal can't. Seems like a double standard if you ask me.

In my latest post, I made it clear that I was referring to the current test results we have of Isaaq, Samaron and Ciise T's.

The Isaaq, Ciise and Samaron have historically been neighbouring clans who belong to the same ethnic group and their T bearing individuals tested so far share a common ancestry.

For the record, I was not generalising for all individuals in the above clans. I have also never argued against idea that you and the Ciise Muuse sample did not belong to the same clan unit 900 years ago etc. Logic suggests that this would have been the case in a traditionally clan-structured pastoral society.

Last edited by eli; 05-21-2021 at 02:35 AM.
Mirix 5/21/2021 6:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-FT18121 only has three branches.My current theory is that E-Y18637 is associated with the mythical Samaale Somali speaking camel herders and their expansion all over Somaliweyn.

E-BY155996 represents the urbanized non-Somali population of Western Somaliland.I think the Isaaq clan was an assimilation process between the dominant Somali nomads (Mostly T carrying Dir from Sanaag) with the farming and merchant locals after the collapse of the medieval state of Adal.While the artisinal castes were subjugated under a caste system.Sada Miire has interesting theory that Yibir for example is actually an Ethio-Semitic word for tax collecting.

E-Y163928 would represent the urban population possibly non-Somali population of Sanaag who were Somalianized.The fact that Daarood always had the tradition they weren't Samaale and the story of marrying a wife of Dir imo seems to suggest they were Somalianized by E-BY8081 and local T lineages.I think someone here posted about a village of Ogaden men in Ethiopia who were majority T-M70+

Some Somali clans by the time of the Futuh were living within the Sultanate of Adal but the vast majority didn't.Some of the clans that lived there are Gerri Koombe (Daarood),Yabarre (Daarood),Habar Maqdi (possibly Samarone),Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Arab & Ayuub).Mareexaan lived on the periphery and so did the Harti (people of Maydh).When the Marexaan killed the Adalite messenger he fled to what the chronicler called the land of the Somalis where the Hawiye lived.The incursions of these clans into the territory of the Sultanate Western & Central Somaliland & Hawd was probably when the nomads ultimately became Muslims imo (13th century)

Some sources about medieval Somaliland from StateHorn

Show Spoiler

There is no evidence of an substantive urbanized non-Somali population anywhere in Western Somaliland. It is hard to even push such notions when there are big urban Muslim cities in the east recorded even from 12th century and sparsely located all over the place in the interiors which according to your logic above they should all be nomads and not be muslims.

Also most of the crafts people and smiths in the urban cities of Harar and berbera or Dakar was Somalis and they were not from castes clans either, especially at the time such things never existed in either Adal Sultanate or Harar Emirate and same with the cultvators around awdal: Like i have shown in this post: [Bad Link]

Somalis lived spread out across a wide expansive territories and practiced different economic activities depending on the lay out the land and the suitibility

Sada Mire never said Yibir was an ethio-semetic word for tax collection. Infact she was disagreeing with that interpretation and said:

However, Samaanyo is nowadays paid not as a tax but as a means of gaining a blessing or avoiding a curse , the threat of which is said to have been every bit as powerful in the past as it is percieveved to be today:

Yibir class exist like i said in a different thread in the deep the southern pagan Rendille group who are closely related to Somalis. Virginia Luling gave an explanation for them and fits with the information above:

Show Spoiler

And the Blood group testing on the bondsmen groups The result showed that they are identical to other Somalis.

The lack of differentiation shows how recent this bondsmen relationship formed, because they have been said to be endegamous and . If they were for several centuries than there would be genetic differences and if they were a seperate group even more so. Some Madhiban trace descent from Dir, Some Tumaal trace descent from Darood etc. And fits with my explanation that this type of relationship formed when the economy went from a food surplus to on of substinence. Post 16th century.

And then a recent Genome-wide analysis on the Somali population. Shows Somalis from across different clans and locations shows they have similar proportions of ancient ancestry and are infact homogenous. No substratum is observed genetically speaking.

Show Spoiler

One of study which states: The results are consistent with hypothesis, supported by cultural and historical evidence, of common origin of the Somali population.

And also about the Marehan leader which keeps getting refrenced. And we all know in various sultanates and kingdoms Somalis had to subjugate and bring other Somalis under their rule, from Geledi vs Biimaal. Hobyo vs Hawiye etc etc I don't see how this is any different and proves they were seperate or invasion or something. Merahan and various clans were living near Harar at the time as well.

I also find it disingenous to mention Sada Mire when she stresses the local origins of these cities and settlements by Somalis and were connected to hinterland trades routes.

She also stressed the fact that Somalis were were economically varied people throughout their history and that they should reject this singular nomad identity. Something which i have stated is something born out of colonial Hamitic Myth has no basis in any evidence but in ideology.

Some sources and archeological evidences presented by Sada Mire:

Show Spoiler

Last edited by Mirix; 05-21-2021 at 12:31 PM.
Mirix 5/21/2021 7:15:00 PM

There is far more Somali/East African migrations & settlements, gene flow into Arabia and Yemen than the opposite. This show by genome wide analysis in the neighboring Yemen and Omani populations

Also is not suprising considering that in Rasulid dynasty chronicles it lists several prominent Jabartis and Zaylicis living and dying in Yemen. Many whom became prominent saints and have tombs in Yemen. As well as Ibn Mujawir that talks about different East African groups populating Aden in the 14th century, Somalis being a most prominent group from Zayla, Mogadishu and Berbera etc and dominating certain trade sections and having quarters. At one point el-Mujawir went on to record that the Berber (people of Berbera) had conquered Aden and driven out colonists from Madagascar Al-qumr.

It is also not suprising when you consider how Somalis always had a policy in keeping foreign merchants & traders etc to the coastal plains and free from the interior . As this old letter describes about Berbera.

The interior trade routes connecting to the coast was controlled by Somalis. Rasulid Yemenis at one point tried extend and annex the coastal region around Zeila but failed miserably as they were resisted by local clans that booted them out. Only local Somalis who controlled the interior had effective control over the coast.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-21-2021 at 01:17 PM.
Megatron 5/22/2021 12:29:00 AM

@eli

The alleged existence of “pre-Islamic clan identities” is highly questionable, wether they were confederacies or not is totally irrelevant. Your statement made it is seem as if their existence is factual but it’s not. One cannot pick and choose when to invoke textual evidence and when to peddle pseudo history.

You clearly missed the point mate. The Libyan individual and Somali individual share a common ancestor that sired offspring in different parts of Africa (highly possible in different parts of the Somali peninsula). His direct descendants did not inhabit the same geographical area and it’s unlikely that they belonged to the same clan grouping because of the distance but also the social context being different.

Who’s to say that could not be the case with Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s? When there is no evidence of shared territory and dispersal from a single territory. Out of curiosity though, what was their alleged clan grouping? Dir?

I may have missed Drobbah’s post but I would be careful using terms like “Samaale”, “Dir” etc because it’s connected to pseudo history.

Wether I disclose my own theory or not is irrelevant. The FtDNA BigY and my own result is of major importance since it would relate my connection to other Somali E-V32, in particular Isaaq E-V32.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-21-2021 at 06:36 PM.
eli 5/22/2021 1:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

The alleged existence of “pre-Islamic clan identities” is highly questionable, wether they were confederacies or not is totally irrelevant. Your statement made it is seem as if their existence is factual but it’s not. One cannot pick and choose when to invoke textual evidence and when to peddle pseudo history.

You clearly missed the point mate. The Libyan individual and Somali individual share a common ancestor that sired offspring in different parts of Africa (highly possible in different parts of the Somali peninsula). His direct descendants did not inhabit the same geographical area and it’s unlikely that they belonged to the same clan grouping because of the distance but also the social context being different.

Who’s to say that could not be the case with Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s? When there is no evidence of shared territory and dispersal from a single territory. Out of curiosity though, what was their alleged clan grouping? Dir?

I may have missed Drobbah’s post but I would be careful using terms like “Samaale”, “Dir” etc because it’s connected to pseudo history.

Wether I disclose my own theory or not is irrelevant. The FtDNA BigY and my own result is of major importance since it would relate my connection to other Somali E-V32, in particular Isaaq E-V32.

I didn't miss the point with the Libyan but you missed my point about it being a false analogy. He is obviously an outlier in Libya who has Somali roots, whereas the Isaaq-Samaron subclade is not a foreign lineage among the Somali ethnic group. You are comparing apples and oranges again.

These clans border each other and their own Histories point towards a more Easterly origin for their respective clans. One can dismiss it as not solid written proof due to the oral nature of Somali History but it is corroborated by all three clans and not the product of an individual's thinking. Moreover, some of their clan myths point to a Historical association. For instance, the Habar Garxajis refers to a Garxajis Mandalug (Samaron's Ancestor) matriarch. As for what clan grouping they would have come under, it is fairly obvious that it would be the older Dir clan identity which precedes these clan identities, and is associated with all three even though many present day Isaaqs identify with a Hashemite ancestor that settled among 'indigenous' Dir clan members.

Last edited by Moderator; 05-21-2021 at 11:37 PM.

Reason: Removed content that is not appropriate.
Megatron 5/22/2021 4:52:00 AM

@eli

The Libyan mans status as an outlier is irrelevant. The point is, their MCRA sired offspring within the last 500 years that did not live in the same geographical area and most likely did not belong to the same clan grouping. This could very well be the case for Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s since there isn’t any evidence supporting the idea that they lived in the same geographical area and that they dispersed from a single territory.

That’s untrue. Isaaq T’s and Samarone/Iise T’s are separated by HA from the coast in Lughaya district to Faafan region in Ethiopia.

I have never heard Samarone and Iise claiming eastern Somaliland as their point of origin.

Habar Garhajis is actually HY, Eidagalla and Arap. The father of Daud and Said (Ismail) was the twin of Arap according to the legend. It has nothing to do with Samarone. The term Garhaji (Garhaajiye) means lawyer/attorney and it is part of the Somali Heer (customary law) terminology. It’s not an exclusive title.

There isn’t any evidence supporting the idea that a clan grouping called Dir existed in pre-Islamic times. The clan/name is not even mentioned in Futuh during the medieval period of the Islamic world. The idea that Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s were under the same Dir clan grouping is not feasible in my opinion.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-21-2021 at 10:55 PM.
Awale 5/22/2021 5:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I have never heard Samarone and Iise claiming eastern Somaliland as their point of origin.

Isn't Sheikh Samaroon buried in Sanaag? And the Darood origin myth is that Sheikh Darood's wife was the Dir chieftain's daughter.

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Megatron 5/22/2021 5:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

Isn't Sheikh Samaroon buried in Sanaag? And the Darood origin myth is that Sheikh Darood's wife was the Dir chieftain's daughter.

I don’t know anything about Sheikh Samarone but what I do know is that some of the mausoleums have been constructed in recent times.

I heard Sheikh Darod married the daughter of Hawiyah. Some Dir claim their alleged clan patriarch did not have any daughters.
Awale 5/22/2021 5:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

I don’t know anything about Sheikh Samarone but what I do know is that some of the mausoleums have been constructed in recent times.

I heard Sheikh Darod married the daughter of Hawiyah. Some Dir claim their alleged clan patriarch did not have any daughters.

I've heard that alternate telling but the story is usually Dir as far as I know. And I did notice that about some of the tombs. They look pretty recent. And I agree with you that I have never heard of Dirs claiming they come from Sanaag though someone from any of their subclans can enlighten or correct us here.

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eli 5/22/2021 6:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

The Libyan mans status as an outlier is irrelevant. The point is, their MCRA sired offspring within the last 500 years that did not live in the same geographical area and most likely did not belong to the same clan grouping. This could very well be the case for Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s since there isn’t any evidence supporting the idea that they lived in the same geographical area and that they dispersed from a single territory.

That’s untrue. Isaaq T’s and Samarone/Iise T’s are separated by HA from the coast in Lughaya district to Faafan region in Ethiopia.

I have never heard Samarone and Iise claiming eastern Somaliland as their point of origin.

Habar Garhajis is actually HY, Eidagalla and Arap. The father of Daud and Said (Ismail) was the twin of Arap according to the legend. It has nothing to do with Samarone. The term Garhaji (Garhaajiye) means lawyer/attorney and it is part of the Somali Heer (customary law) terminology. It’s not an exclusive title.

There isn’t any evidence supporting the idea that a clan grouping called Dir existed in pre-Islamic times. The clan/name is not even mentioned in Futuh during the medieval period of the Islamic world. The idea that Isaaq T’s, Samarone T’s and Iise T’s were under the same Dir clan grouping is not feasible in my opinion.

Man, it is like beating a dead horse with your bro in regards to he Libyan analogy. The Libyan sample is an isolated lineage in Libya that is clearly the result of a Somali migrating there. His E-V32 lineage is indigenous to Somalia. The Somali T lineage subclade and its offshoots are found in clans who are associated with a Somali ethnic identity. They are not outliers as they belong to a longstanding and widespread lineage in Somali! Man, Apples and Bloody Oranges again!

Habar Awal might separate them but the borders you see today are not the same borders that existed in the past when the respective clans were smaller. For example, when carrying out research among the Ciise, I. M. Lewis encountered an oral History of one of the Ciise clans by Xeer known as Wardiq:

[Bad Link]

You are consistently assuming that the clan borders you see today have been static for centuries. As Awale also rightly highlighted, the oral History of Samaron, and Ciise, state that they originate in Sanaag. My own subclan's oral History points to an origin North-Eastern Somalia and a small minority of my clansmen still live in Bari and Sanaag. The following is a peace settlement between Cabaas Muuse (Surre) and Reer Idle (Habar Jeclo) in Sanaag.

When the Habar Magadle and Habar Habusheed confederations were smaller, the clan borders were not as clear cut as they are today. This is evinced by the Ciise oral History of assimilating Habar Toljeclo individuals in the past when they would go to war with a more unified Isaaq clan. More recently, it was not uncommon for the sections of the Garxajis to fight in unison with the Habar Awal against the Ciise despite their mutual animosity.

As has been noticed, the Habr Gerhajis have a perpetual blood feud with the Habr Awal, and, even at Aden, they have fought out their quarrels with clubs and stones. Yet as cousins they willingly unite against a common enemy, the Eesa for instance, and become the best of friends.

Regarding the Habar Garxajis. The female referenced in Habar Garxajis is traced to Mandalug Dir (Samaron's ancestor) hence why the clan was historically called Habar Garxajis as 'Habar' is only used to signify a 'Bah'. I am aware that the Arap were in alliance with the Cidagalle and Habar Yonis in the Habar Garxajis confederacy of the 19th century, however, I was referring to the matriarch of the clan name Habar Garxajis, not the latter day confederation itself. Moreover, I am also aware of the incompatibility of the 'Habar' prefix to Garhajis when the 'Habar Magaadle' is also referenced as a maternal ancestor. The reasoning behind this contradiction is beyond me.

You are right, there is no written evidence pointing to an ancient Dir clan. However, there is a consensus among Somalis that it is an old Somali stock. Even non-Somalis who do not possess a bias towards one clan or the other such as I. M. Lewis have picked up on this during their field research.

[Bad Link]
drobbah 5/22/2021 7:08:00 AM

@Eli The Tol Jeclo mentioned in your quote about the Isaaq captives among the Cisse is actually Tol Jeclo which is a seperate clan from the Habar Jeclo and other Habar Xabusheed that live in the East.The TJ live in Gabiley/Ethiopia exclusively among us HA Jibriil Abokor who were also constantly at war on the coast with the Cisse clan (who were feared warriors I might add).

My great grandmother was also Tol Jeclo (my maternal haplogroup) from the region.There's no direct evidence there was very different borders between Isaaq & Dir in the last couple centuries except recently where the once landlocked Samarone have now reached the coast as many Cisse left their homeland for the French procterate.These two clans didn't really have the most rosy relationship either despite both being Dir

[Bad Link]Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
eli 5/22/2021 7:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

I've heard that alternate telling but the story is usually Dir as far as I know. And I did notice that about some of the tombs. They look pretty recent. And I agree with you that I have never heard of Dirs claiming they come from Sanaag though someone from any of their subclans can enlighten or correct us here.

The History of Samaron, Ciise and Gurgura point towards an origin in Sanaag. According to the History I know, the Gurgura were the first to venture West followed by the Ciise and Samaron. To this day, you have some small Dir lineages left in Sanaag such as the Magaadle.

As for tombs, yes, the supposed ancestors of Samaron and Ciise are buried there.

[Bad Link]

Size: 299.4 KB" winautomationvisibilitylandmark="true">Saints 1.PNG

[Bad Link]

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Whether there is any truth to the tombs of all the clans in Sanaag? That is up for debate in my opinion. Every Tom. Dick and Harry has taken up the fashion of calling their supposed ancestor a 'Sheikh' when there is no evidence of them having been Islamic scholars or being of Arab origin etc.
eli 5/22/2021 7:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

@Eli The Tol Jeclo mentioned in your quote about the Isaaq captives among the Cisse is actually Tol Jeclo which is a seperate clan from the Habar Jeclo and other Habar Xabusheed that live in the East.The TJ live in Gabiley/Ethiopia exclusively among us HA Jibriil Abokor who were also constantly at war on the coast with the Cisse clan (who were feared warriors I might add).

My great grandmother was also Tol Jeclo (my maternal haplogroup) from the region.There's no direct evidence there was very different borders between Isaaq & Dir in the last couple centuries except recently where the once landlocked Samarone have now reached the coast as many Cisse left their homeland for the French procterate.These two clans didn't really have the most rosy relationship either despite both being Dir

[Bad Link]

I know it is Toljeclo. However, what you are forgetting is that the Ciise are referring to a period in History when their clan was young, and they were at war with Isaaqs. As you know, the Toljeclo were the traditional Sultans of the Isaaq in the past. When they were called Habar Toljeclo, they would not have come under the wing of Habar Awal and would have been a powerful independent clan.

Did I claim that there has been a change to the border in the past few centuries? I am referring to the period of time when all these clans were small in number. At one point in History, you operated as Habar Magaadle. Before that, you would not have had the same settlement patterns you have today. Reer Samatar, for example, are Reer Hawd today. In centuries past, they would have been living closer to the majority of their Xussein Abokor kin.
drobbah 5/22/2021 7:34:00 AM

Agreed!Let's keep the thread on topic from now on walaal
Awale 5/22/2021 7:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

The History of Samaron, Ciise and Gurgura point towards an origin in Sanaag. According to the History I know, the Gurgura were the first to venture West followed by the Ciise and Samaron. To this day, you have some small Dir lineages left in Sanaag such as the Magaadle.

May I ask what is the time frame you are proposing for all of this? The Gurgura were already living near Harar by the looks of it in the Futuh al-Habasha during the 1500s. Then there are accounts like Ibn Battuta and al-Umari during the 1300s where the inhabitants of Zeila are described as dark-skinned herders of camels and sheep ("Barbara") in the former case and people who use what looks like the Somali calendar in the latter case:

Al-Umari of Cairo states that in the land of Zayla’ (Awdal) “they cultivate two times annually by seasonal rains … The rainfall for the winter is called ‘Bil’ and rainfall for the ‘summer’ is called ‘Karam’ in the language of the people of Zayla

Then there's the fact that Afar territory seems not associated with Zeila in the Futuh and Afar influence on Somali is as an adstrate, not a substrate and of course there's not really much genetic proof of assimilated Afars so the people mentioned as nomadic in their roots by Batuta were most likely Somalis. All of this doesn't prove there were Dirs in particular in the region during the 1300s but it's food for thought.

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eli 5/22/2021 8:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Awale

May I ask what is the time frame you are proposing for all of this? The Gurgura were already living near Harar by the looks of it in the Futuh al-Habasha during the 1500s. Then there are accounts like Ibn Battuta and al-Umari during the 1300s where the inhabitants of Zeila are described as dark-skinned herders of camels and sheep ("Barbara") in the former case and people who use what looks like the Somali calendar in the latter case:

Then there's the fact that Afar territory seems not associated with Zeila in the Futuh and Afar influence on Somali is as an adstrate, not a substrate and of course there's not really much genetic proof of assimilated Afars so the people mentioned as nomadic in their roots by Batuta were most likely Somalis. All of this doesn't prove there were Dirs in particular in the region during the 1300s but it's food for thought.

We are talking about Somalis bro. Time frames and Somalis do not go together sadly. Particularly, our early History.

It would definitely not be out of the equation for Somalis to have bordered Zeila by the 14th century as we would have been settled in present day North-Western Somalia by that time. I base the previous statement on the purported earlier date in which the Aw Barkhadle Sufi tradition would have been established among Somalis. His shrine is not far from Hargeysa.

Nonetheless, as for whether Somalis had expanded beyond Zeila at that time, and at the expense of the Afar, is a question I cannot begin to answer as I remember reading that there is a shrine in Zeila which the Afar would have held in high regard. Furthermore, the Batuta description would fit the Afar too as they have a similar nomadic lifestyle.
Megatron 5/22/2021 4:59:00 PM

@eli

The Libyan examples demonstrates that a shared genetic lineage doesn’t necessarily mean that the direct descendants of that lineage (MRCA) lived in the same geographical area and belonged to the same clan grouping.

Habar Tolje’lo is another name for Habar Habusheed. As your source points out there are different traditions describing the origin of the 3 follower clans (soo raa’ clans). The one I heard is that Wardiq was found as a young boy living in the wilderness and that the ‘Iise adopted him because his appearance in their land was interpreted as glad tidings hence “war diq” and the reason why they chose the descendants of this alleged individual as their Ugas. It’s unlikely that ’Iise would choose their alleged captives as their traditional clan leaders. With that said, there isn’t any evidence pointing out any contact between the Habar Tolje’lo and ‘Iise in the medieval period.

In the last section of the video you posted, the Somaliland official overseeing the settlement states; “the clan of the perpetrator travelled from a very distant place”. That tells us 3 things;

1. These clans do not border each other.

2. It was an isolated incident.

3. Not part of the traditional “Somaliland clans”

The Abas Muse live on the fringes of eastern Sanaag and Bari where they live among Warsangeli and if I’m not mistaken under Warsangeli protection. They are not found in places where Isaaq/Harti settlements overlap such as central Sanaag. Oral history does not really prove anything, especially when it comes to alleged migration patterns. There’s an equal chance that Surrey comes from central Somalia and migrated north.

This is the first time I hear that the mother of Habar Garhajis was the daughter of Madulug. It’s only James Dahl’s Abtirsi website that makes that connection. The Isaaq legend states that Ismail and Arap (Muhammad) were twins and therefore formed a special bond/alliance within the Habar Magaadle hence the term Habar Garhajis. If you ask the elders of Arap, Eidagalla and HY they will tell you the same thing.

As I stated earlier, Garhaji or Garhaajiye is part of the Somali Heer system. It’s not an exclusive title. It’s connected to a profession (attorney). If I was a carpenter, in the traditional Somali context I would be a “Tumaal”.

In contrast, there are claims (cited by western travelers in pre-colonial/colonial times) that Samarone is the alleged son of Said Gerhajis. I don’t think these claims verify a clan relationship between the two groups.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-22-2021 at 01:43 PM.
Awale 5/22/2021 8:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Some Somali clans by the time of the Futuh were living within the Sultanate of Adal but the vast majority didn't.Some of the clans that lived there are Gerri Koombe (Daarood),Yabarre (Daarood),Habar Maqdi (possibly Samarone),Habar Magaadle (HA,Gx,Arab & Ayuub).Mareexaan lived on the periphery and so did the Harti (people of Maydh).When the Marexaan killed the Adalite messenger he fled to what the chronicler called the land of the Somalis where the Hawiye lived.The incursions of these clans into the territory of the Sultanate Western & Central Somaliland & Hawd was probably when the nomads ultimately became Muslims imo (13th century)

Walaal, as I pointed out in that other thread this line of thinking seems unfounded. It's based on a reading of Futuh I honestly can't understand. The Somali clans mentioned in the Futuh are: Gurgura, Barsuuk, Marehan, Habar Magaadle, Geri Kombe, Yabbare, Bartire, Hawiye and the Harti (along with two unidentifiable clans going by Mazra/Mazzar and Jaran/Jairan). Every single clan mentioned here except the Harti, who are explicitly pointed out to be from a place far to the east, have one thing in common and that's that they're all clans known in the following centuries to have lived far to the west and near Harar or had subclans that did. When Richard Burton visits in 1800s he names some of these exact same clans as living in and around Harar.

Areas to the east and north like Awdal and Woqooyi in Somaliland are not really mentioned and even Zeila is mentioned in passing as a source for canon imports. Then virtually everywhere the Futuh takes place like Bale, Shewa, Hadiya, Amhara, Tigray and so forth is blatantly in Ethiopia. The Futuh even mentions at one point that the Imam goes to about the border between Muslim and Christian lands then doubles back into the "Country of the Somalis" mentioned. Does that sound far to the east and on the periphery of Muslim lands? And Somalis are mentioned to control a Muslim province by the name of Jalbi between their country where the Imam's forces gather provisions in a town called Kidad and Bale where he ends up campaigning for a time. It is very clear in the Futuh that most everything is happening in what is now Ethiopia and not in Somaliland and that the Somali clans mentioned are mostly the same ones who've lived far to the west and near Harar in the last several centuries following the Futuh. I do not know where you got this impression that they are in the periphery and far to the east in a place like Sanaag. The only clan out of place are the Harti and the author makes a point of telling us they are from Maydh and were probably there as outsiders much like the Mahra and other such groups. Muslims looking to participate in a Jihad and get some plunder while they're at it.

Then there are of course all the other problems I mentioned here with this idea that there was some massive assimilated population in areas like Awdal, Woqooyi and Togdheer like a lack of any real autosomal or uniparental evidence, no proof in linguistics (no substratum), the region actually still being mostly marginal land that would be dominated mainly by pastoral nomads and not sedentary farmers and so on and so forth. I don't know if you still hold this position after that thread but just wanted to point this out here as well.

Last edited by Awale; 05-22-2021 at 03:27 PM.

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eli 5/23/2021 2:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

The Libyan examples demonstrates that a shared genetic lineage doesn’t necessarily mean that the direct descendants of that lineage (MRCA) lived in the same geographical area and belonged to the same clan grouping.

Habar Tolje’lo is another name for Habar Habusheed. As your source points out there are different traditions describing the origin of the 3 follower clans (soo raa’ clans). The one I heard is that Wardiq was found as a young boy living in the wilderness and that the ‘Iise adopted him because his appearance in their land was interpreted as glad tidings hence “war diq” and the reason why they chose the descendants of this alleged individual as their Ugas. It’s unlikely that ’Iise would choose their alleged captives as their traditional clan leaders. With that said, there isn’t any evidence pointing out any contact between the Habar Tolje’lo and ‘Iise in the medieval period.

In the last section of the video you posted, the Somaliland official overseeing the settlement states; “the clan of the perpetrator travelled from a very distant place”. That tells us 3 things;

1. These clans do not border each other.

2. It was an isolated incident.

3. Not part of the traditional “Somaliland clans”

The Abas Muse live on the fringes of eastern Sanaag and Bari where they live among Warsangeli and if I’m not mistaken under Warsangeli protection. They are not found in places where Isaaq/Harti settlements overlap such as central Sanaag. Oral history does not really prove anything, especially when it comes to alleged migration patterns. There’s an equal chance that Surrey comes from central Somalia and migrated north.

This is the first time I hear that the mother of Habar Garhajis was the daughter of Madulug. It’s only James Dahl’s Abtirsi website that makes that connection. The Isaaq legend states that Ismail and Arap (Muhammad) were twins and therefore formed a special bond/alliance within the Habar Magaadle hence the term Habar Garhajis. If you ask the elders of Arap, Eidagalla and HY they will tell you the same thing.

As I stated earlier, Garhaji or Garhaajiye is part of the Somali Heer system. It’s not an exclusive title. It’s connected to a profession (attorney). If I was a carpenter, in the traditional Somali context I would be a “Tumaal”.

In contrast, there are claims (cited by western travelers in pre-colonial/colonial times) that Samarone is the alleged son of Said Gerhajis. I don’t think these claims verify a clan relationship between the two groups.

No, it is a false analogy. The reason is simple, we do not know the History of the Libyan sample; his migration History and who he could possibly be related to. We have the oral History of the Somali clans in question. Their oral Histories point to a common point of origin, North-Eastern Somalia in the case of the Samaron, Ciise and Isaaq. Your analogy is a false equivalence.

Yes, there are different traditions regarding the Wardiq, however, the fact that one tradition points towards Habar Toljeclo cannot be denied. Why would they reference Habar Toljeclo when they could easily have claimed that their captives were the Habar Awal who they currently border? Moreover, in the same source, their oral History of having roots areas further East would indicate that in the Ciise nascent stage, their borders would not be what they are today. During their early History, and that of the Isaaq, the divisions we see today would not have been in existence. It is only as sub subclans become bigger that they begin to demarcate separate clan territories. Considering the clan based nature of our society and the T rich Northern clans I referenced, it can be argued that the recent founder effect from which they descend from would have had its beginnings in the same family unit.

I gave the Cabaas Muuse example to further illustrate this point. I never stated that they border the Habar Jeclo. They do not live in Bari at all, their villages are in between Badhan and Las Qoorey. They were traditionally allied with the Warsangeli but are a separate clan who have their own diya paying mechanism as demonstrated by the fact that they were paying compensation to the clan of the man killed. Our clan History points towards a North-Eastern origin for our lineage. Today, we live predominately in Central Somalia, South Somalia and K5. Nonetheless, our oral History and that of Daarood clans in North-Eastern Somalia testify to our ancestral land in North-eastern Somalia. This again can be used to argue that members of my subclan who share the same T lineage, and that of my Northern blood cousins, have their roots in the roughly same geographic area.

As you very well know, Habar signifies a 'Bah' who descend from a common matriarch so there is a contradiction between them being Habar Magaadle and Habar Garxajis simultaneously. Like I said, the reasoning behind the Garxajis being historically identified with Habar Garxajis is beyond me.

As for Samaron Sicid being descendants of Sicid Garxajis, it is no different than other examples such as the Warsangeli Harti Abgaal being identified with Warsangeli Harti. No Samaron acknowledges such a connection.

Let us not derail the thread further, and agree to disagree.

Back to E-V32. .

I have been more than fair in explaining my ideas to you. Why do you insist on waiting until your test results come out to share your E-V32 theory with us? This forum is about having a reasoned discussion and it is not a fair exchange for me to address questions you pose to me when you are not willing to do the same. What is your Isaaq E-V32 theory please?

Last edited by eli; 05-22-2021 at 08:34 PM.
Megatron 5/23/2021 3:29:00 AM

@eli

Oral history is highly problematic because it’s borderline pseudo history. Just to give you an example, why would ‘Iise coronate their alleged Habar Tolje’lo captives? It makes no sense.

With that said, there isn’t any evidence supporting some of the ideas you shared including Habar Garhajis denoting descent from the alleged daughter of Madulug Dir and some of the alleged migration patterns. The aforementioned idea is also contradictory to what HY, Eidagalla and Arap elders believe.

My theory about Isaaq E-V32 is not essential to this thread, my results are.. since it would contribute to the puzzle and hopefully get us a step closer to understanding the story of Somali E-V32. When I get my results I may disclose the theory.

I agree, let’s not derail the thread.
eli 5/23/2021 5:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

Oral history is highly problematic because it’s borderline pseudo history. Just to give you an example, why would ‘Iise coronate their alleged Habar Tolje’lo captives? It makes no sense.

With that said, there isn’t any evidence supporting some of the ideas you shared including Habar Garhajis denoting descent from the alleged daughter of Madulug Dir and some of the alleged migration patterns. The aforementioned idea is also contradictory to what HY, Eidagalla and Arap elders believe.

My theory about Isaaq E-V32 is not essential to this thread, my results are.. since it would contribute to the puzzle and hopefully get us a step closer to understanding the story of Somali E-V32. When I get my results I may disclose the theory.

I agree, let’s not derail the thread.

Oral History is problematic, no doubt. However, it is the main Historical resource available to us considering the oral nature of our society as there are no ancient historical texts written by Somalis about Somalis as things stand. Moreover, it is fair to say that when the oral History of Somali clans is corroborated by multiple clan sources, there is some sort of Historical foundation to work with. Thus, the oral History of clans such as the Ciise are no less redundant than the oral History of your own clan or my clan about our respective area of origin.

Regarding migration, pastoral Somalis would historically be in conflict with each other over water wells, grazing land etc., and it was also natural for segmentary lineages of a clan family unit to come to blows with an expansion in population. Hence, it is abundantly clear that Somali clan boundaries have never been Historically static. The clan borders we see today are not the same borders that existed 800 years ago. The migration History of several clans such as Marehan, Ogaden, Biimaal, Surre, Garre, Degoodi, Gaaljecel, Gurre, Gugundhabe Hawiyes, Karanle Hawiyes etc. demonstrates this. Even the migration patterns of the Isaaq clan is a clear example of this. The coastal Habar Yonis do not border the more Southern Habar Yonis anymore as the the Habar Jeclo have created a buffer between them after expanding into Dhulbahante territory. Prior to that, you were mainly concentrated in areas adjacent to the coast.

If your theory is not essential to thread why even share it after your results come out?

Last edited by eli; 05-22-2021 at 11:27 PM.
Megatron 5/23/2021 5:35:00 AM

@eli

These alleged migrations may not haven taken place at all. There’s an equal chance that Surrey, Gaalje’el, Garreh etc originate further south. One has to keep an open mind and not present ideas as fact.

I may share my theory if it’s beneficial to the thread but that can only be decided when I get my results.
eli 5/23/2021 5:46:00 AM

@Megatron

I never stated all the above clans lived in the North. All I was making you aware of is that these clans did not always live where they are presently found.

Surre History is in the North and can be corroborated by the Daarood we neighbour in Puntland and Sanaag, and our remnant subclans that still inhabit North-Eastern Somalia. Our migration History is North to South, and the fact that Surres samples on YFull share an ancestry with their Northern cousins is an indicator of where some of their ancestral roots lie.

Again, why would it beneficial then and not now? What is there to shy away from now? It is only a theory after all!

Last edited by eli; 05-22-2021 at 11:50 PM.
Megatron 5/23/2021 6:20:00 AM

@eli

I’m not opposed to the idea of migration but long distances such as north-south without any clear evidence, only oral history, is quite problematic.

If I’m not mistaken the Surrey samples on Yfull belong to an older subclade and they’re both from central Somalia in contrast to the Isaaq/Samarone. There’s a possibility that the ancestor of Isaaq/Samarone T migrated from central Somalia or from another territory in the Somali Peninsula to present day Somaliland.

If my theory is beneficial or not can only be decided when I get my results.

Last edited by Megatron; 05-23-2021 at 02:20 AM.
eli 5/23/2021 7:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

I’m not opposed to the idea of migration but long distances such as north-south without any clear evidence, only oral history, is quite problematic.

If I’m not mistaken the Surrey samples on Yfull belong to an older subclade and they’re both from central Somalia in contrast to the Isaaq/Samarone. There’s a possibility that the ancestor of Isaaq/Samarone migrated from central Somalia or from another territory in the Somali Peninsula to present day Somaliland.

If it’s beneficial or not can only be decided when I get my results.

I never stated that all the above clans migrated North to South, you jumped the gun. I was merely demonstrating how clan borders are not static.

For example, the Marehan were closer to Harar before the Futuh wars and only a few of them remain there today. The majority settled in Central Somalia and gradually migrated to Gedo mostly.

The Karanle Hawiye are mainly in the Harar area but one of their descendant subclans lives in Galgadud today; the Murusade.

The Degoodi lived in Central K5 before Ogaden raids caused them to find less contested grazing land in Northen Kenyan/Southern K5.

A sub sub subclan of the Gugundhabe Hawiye subclan called Murulle now lived next to the Quranyow Garre in Mandheera District after migrating from an area in South-Central Somalia/Central K5.

I am not going to describe the migration History of every clan mentioned but you get the point I was trying to make.

As for the Surre YFull samples, you are jumping the gun again. The Mudug sample belongs to a clan that inhabit Mudug but originate from the North. They are a sibling clan of Cabaas Muuse called Samatar Muuse who migrated South. The Daarood we neighbour bear witness to our indigenous Northern roots and there is no History of us migrating from Central Somalia to Northern Somalia. You will find the Muuse lineage us as far North as Bandar Beyla! Listen to the following extract by a Daarood elder (43.40 mins onwards) during the crowning of an Cabaas Muuse Ugaas. He recounts the relationship between my Muuse lineage and his lineage. The maternal ancestor of Cabaas Muuse is from his subclan.

The Surre sample from Hiiraan is called Reer Aw Herar Qubeys. Qubeys also have a shared History of having an origin in Northern Somalia but most of their constituent subclans are Fiqi priestly clans that became dispersed throughout South-Central Somalia and K5. Thus, there is no evidence to suggest my T lineage originates from Mudug as it is not our traditional ancestral land, Northern Somalia is. I assume the same is for my distant blood kin among the Isaaq, Ciise and Samaron who also consider Northern Somalia their traditional ancestral land.

As for your theory, just don't hold it back if results do not go your way.

Last edited by eli; 05-23-2021 at 01:09 AM.
Megatron 5/23/2021 7:43:00 AM

@eli

The Marehan is a perfect example because medieval chronicles such as Futuh strengthens their migration history but it’s not evident for other Somali clans. In my opinion, oral history and speculation based on oral history doesn’t hold any weight but let’s agree to disagree.

Let’s not derail this thread any further.
eli 5/23/2021 8:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Megatron

@eli

The Marehan is a perfect example because medieval chronicles such as Futuh strengthens their migration history but it’s not evident for other Somali clans. In my opinion, oral history and speculation based on oral history doesn’t hold any weight but let’s agree to disagree.

Let’s not derail this thread any further.

Sadly, Oral History is what our History is mainly all about. Are we just going to rely on Futuh Al Habasha, Antione Abad, Richard Burton etc. to fill in the blanks? Without it, we lose a window into our past.

In my opinion, if oral History can corroborated by diverse sources then a grain of truth can be sieved from it.

To each his own nonetheless.
Mirix 5/25/2021 4:30:00 AM

Sanaag traditions is just a continuation and even a islamic reappropiation of pagan Waaq spiritual traditions. Thats why they bury clan founders in the same general area because of its spiritual associations. You shouldn't take it as a fact or evidence of recent migration or dispersal from that area or something. Sada Mire answered this in her book btw

Somalis have been seperated across out across a wide landscape for many thousands of years and you can see this in how there is dialect differences from west to north to South.

All the clans with the exception of Merehan and some Ogaden sub-clans haven't really done any migrations or movements and live as a clan group in the same general areas they have always lived for centuries since their recording in Futuh and other sources. The rest are just migrations of clergy men or traders and not whole clans migrating.
eli 5/25/2021 4:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mirix

Sanaag traditions is just a continuation and even a islamic reappropiation of pagan Waaq spiritual traditions. Thats why they bury clan founders in the same general area because of its spiritual associations. You shouldn't take it as a fact or evidence of recent migration or dispersal from that area or something. Sada Mire answered this in her book btw

Somalis have been seperated across out across a wide landscape for many thousands of years and you can see this in how there is dialect differences from west to north to South.

All the clans with the exception of Merehan and some Ogaden sub-clans haven't really done any migrations or movements and live as a clan group in the same general areas they have always lived for centuries since their recording in Futuh and other sources. The rest are just migrations of clergy men or traders and not whole clans migrating.

The Sanaag traditions might not be based on fact, however, they do point to a belief in a common ancestral point of origin when the population of pastoral Somali clans was not as large as it was today. Whether it was Sanaag or not is irrelevant, what is pertinent to the point I was making is that where clans live today is not necessarily where the ancestors sprang from according to their own Histories. Dismiss it if you wish but you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that all the clans are lying or that the clan borders we see today have been the same since the formative era of our ethnic group.

As for your statement regarding current Somali clan settlements, you are generalising for all Somali clans based on research done in Northern Somalia by Sada Mire and your won conclusions based on Futuh Al Habash.

For instance, the Ajuuran do not live today where they did 500 years ago after a joint uprising by multiple clans against them. This occurrence is not recorded in Futuh Al Habash or any other contemporary text when the dispersal occurred. Today, many are found are found in Southern K5 and NFD.

As you are so fond of referencing the Futuh like an Evangelist would quote the Bible, in the Futuh, it is mentioned that the Harti came from Mait, where do they live today? Where were the Habar Magaadle then? In areas possibly closer to Harar? Considering how the Habar Yonis claim to descend from an Aba Yonis Geri Kombe matriarch ancestor, is it possible that the Habar Magaadle actually lived in areas closer to Harar before migrating North after the Futuh wars? I am just hypothesising but you get my point regarding your statement that Somali clans always lived in the same locality.

Last edited by eli; 05-24-2021 at 10:58 PM.
Mirix 5/25/2021 5:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

The Sanaag traditions might not be based on fact, however, they do point to a belief in a common ancestral point of origin when the population of pastoral Somali clans was not as large as it was today. Whether it was Sanaag or not is irrelevant, what is pertinent to the point I was making is that where clans live today is not necessarily where the ancestors sprang from according to their own Histories. Dismiss it if you wish but you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that all the clans are lying or that the clan borders we see today have been the same since the formative era of our ethnic group.

As for your statement regarding current Somali clan settlements, you are generalising for all Somali clans based on research done in Northern Somalia by Sada Mire and your won conclusions based on Futuh Al Habash.

For instance, the Ajuuran do not live today where they did 500 years ago after a joint uprising by multiple clans against them. This occurrence is not recorded in Futuh Al Habash or any other contemporary text when the dispersal occurred. Today, many are found are found in Southern K5 and NFD.

As you are so fond of referencing the Futuh like an Evangelist would quote the Bible, in the Futuh, it is mentioned that the Harti came from Mait, where do they live today? Where were the Habar Magaadle then? In areas possibly closer to Harar? Considering how the Habar Yonis claim to descend from an Aba Yonis Geri Kombe matriarch ancestor, is it possible that the Habar Magaadle actually lived in areas closer to Harar before migrating North after the Futuh wars? I am just hypothesising but you get my point regarding your statement that Somali clans always lived in the same locality.

Sanaag traditions point to a common pagan belief rooted in a pagan religious culture in Somalis, that was later islamized. They don't point to any dispersal or recent migration at all.

Ajuuran is an exceptional case, they were defeated outsted as rulers by a coalition of Somali clans and as a consquence scattered. Hawiye and Raxanweyn clans however live generally where they have always lived. Even Hawiye clans they were recorded at Merka in the 12th century and still live there.

Somalis clans intermarry across maternal lines to build alliances. Thats why you have Bahs (Mother of) etc in different clans. They also share grazing land with eachother Sanaag is generally inhabited by Harti and Isaaq clans as side by side neighbors.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-25-2021 at 12:03 AM.
eli 5/25/2021 7:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mirix

Sanaag traditions point to a common pagan belief rooted in a pagan religious culture in Somalis, that was later islamized. They don't point to any dispersal or recent migration at all.

Ajuuran is an exceptional case, they were defeated outsted as rulers by a coalition of Somali clans and as a consquence scattered. Hawiye and Raxanweyn clans however live generally where they have always lived. Even Hawiye clans they were recorded at Merka in the 12th century and still live there.

Somalis clans intermarry across maternal lines to build alliances. Thats why you have Bahs (Mother of) etc in different clans. They also share grazing land with eachother Sanaag is generally inhabited by Harti and Isaaq clans as side by side neighbors.

I do not want to be accused of derailing this thread so let us open another thread in the History section after this reply if you have anything to add.

Firstly, the example I presented about Sanaag being the ancestral land of the clans in question was to demonstrate that their own traditions indicate they did not always live in the same locality. I never stated that their traditional oral History was necessarily true in regards to all of them descending from ancestors buried in Sanaag. Whether Sanaag, and Northern Somalia in general, has a sacred ancestral History for Dir and Daarood clans is irrelevant to the discussion I was having. That is another debate altogether. In a reply to Awale, I even cast doubt, personally speaking, about the claimed burial grounds of these so called clan ancestors as I believe these are clan myths so you are barking up the wrong tree. My point about some of them having dispersed from the same geographic area is primarily based on blood ties which can be scientifically ascertained.

Secondly, you can dispute the Oral History of clans, however, you cannot be selective about how true one Oral History is over another as exemplified by how you try to religiously link the Harla with some Somalis by relying on an oral History of theirs. A similar argument can be made in regard to your Karanle Abtirsi reference.

Thirdly, you are generalising about entire clans based on one or two references again. The Hadiya reference which you and many others interpret as Hawiye does not indicate that all Hawiye always lived in Deep South Somalia in the 12th century because the Futuh itself highlights how some Hawiye were probably not that distant from Harar as exemplified by how the Marehan escaped the wrath of Ibn Ghazi by fleeing to Hawiye territory. Is this the same Hawiye territory inhabited by the Karanles or Gugundhabes in K5? If so, it shows how Hawiye have not generally always lived where they do today. Moreover, the Oral History of Hirab Hawiye and how they gradually came to expel the Ajuran from the environs of Mogadishu also demonstrates this. They gradually migrated from areas further North of the Shabelle River until the Darandolle section became immediate neighbours of the Ajuran. The entire History of how Ajuran hegemony in the South was defeated by a coalition of clans is again based on Oral History as there is no reference of them or any other South-Central Somali clan in any contemporary text so is it ignorant to correlate the History of several clans with that of the few who are listed in Futuh Al Habash.

As for the Habar Yonis matriarch and Harti examples I gave. The only clan which is clearly as referenced as coming from Mait are the Harti. The Harti do not inhabit Mait at all today so this again demonstrates how clans constantly migrate. Moreover, if the 'Habar' referenced in Futuh is indeed the Habar Magaadle, it is noteworthy that they are referenced as one of the first clans to come to the Jihad Call, and the absence of any reference to Mait says a lot. Thus, my maternal reference is also relevant because Somalis generally married from neighbouring clans. Habar Yonis, if their oral History is to be believed, are the son of Sicid Garxajis and a Aba Yonis Geri Kombe mother. It could be therefore argued that this could indicate that they and the Geri once neighboured each other when the Habar Magaadle clan was in its infancy. Today, they do not directly neighbour each other. This hypothesis can obviously be dismissed as it is based on clan myths which can be rejected for lacking absolute scientific genetic evidence. We can easily test for distant paternal relations, but sadly, we cannot do the same for maternal relations.

Lastly, you were negligent when you made your earlier statement about clans always living in the same locality they have always as illustrated by how you changed your tune when I presented you with the Ajuran example. FYI, the Garre and Degodi have also not always lived where they are found today. Conflict brought them there. Nonetheless, this is again, like the Ajuran, is also not extensively referenced in any contemporary text but obtained from the oral History of Somali clans.

Last edited by eli; 05-25-2021 at 01:16 AM.
Mirix 5/25/2021 8:23:00 AM

It's a fair generalization to make to state what is generally true. The vast majority of Somali groups live generally in the same areas they have always lived, with minimal movements. The written sources show high degree of population stability.

According to H. S. Lewis, early written sources suggest a picture that is entirely compatible with population stability and the

hypothesis that the Somali were the main inhabitants of the Horn. The reference in Al-Idrisi to the Hadiye and in Ibn Sa'id to the Hawiye, on both occasions associated with the Benadir port of Merca, where the Hawiya live today, suggests that they have been in this area for at least 700 years.8 The references slightly later in the Futuh al-Habasha to Somali groups in north-western Somaliland indicates that the population in this area has also remained substantially unchanged since the sixteenth century, when the work was written

A third relatively early document containing recognizable references to Somali groups is an Arabic chronicle detailing the wars between the Muslims of Adal and the Christians of Ethiopia.6 The Somali groups mentioned in the Futuh al-Habasha are generally ones which are still found in north-west Somaliland-the area which was once Adal or adjacent to it. These include the Yabarre, Bartirre, Marrehan, Geri, Habr Magadle, and various Dir groups. The evidence of this work, written between I540 and 1550, is, therefore, that the composition of the Somali population of north- west Somaliland has not changed substantially since then.7

There is simply no evidence of Sanaag being a recent locus point for any Somalis. Even if Somalis had an origin point in the Northern Somalia it would have been 5000 years ago , by 3000 years or so earliest Somalis must have spread out to cover a wide landscape. That's what it seems. Because this is the estimated distance between Macro-Somali langauges (Sam Languages) shows. Archeology seems to support this as well.

Simple as that.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-25-2021 at 02:26 AM.
eli 5/25/2021 9:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mirix

It's a fair generalization to make to state what is generally true. The vast majority of Somali groups live generally in the same areas they have always lived, with minimal movements. The written sources show high degree of population stability and that Somalis were the main inhabitants of the horn.

The written sources do not tell the full story as I have demonstrated with the Ajuran, Degodi, Gaaljecel and Hawiye examples. Provide me with one contemporary source written by a non-Somali or a Somali corroborating the History that you just acknowledged regarding the Ajuran? If Hawiye always lived in the same area then how come we have clans living in places as geographically apart as NFD, in the vicinity of Harar, South-Central Somalia? A similar case can be made for the Dir clan. For instance, the Biimaal are not recorded as living in Merca during the 12th century, their oral History, and that of the clans that they neighbour, state that the Biimaal migrated there at a much later period. Which historical text supports the above details?

What is generally true for you is not necessarily the uncontested 'truth' for everyone nor is it generally supported by the History of all Somalis as you have insinuated.

Originally Posted by Mirix

There is simply no evidence of Sanaag being a recent locus point for any Somalis. Even if Somalis had an origin point in the Northern Somalia it would have been 5000 years ago , by 3000 years or so Earliest Somalis must have spread out to cover a wide landscape. That's what it seems. Because this is the estimated distance between Macro-Somali langauges (Sam Languages) shows. Archeology seems to support this as well.

Where did I state that Sanaag is a recent locus point for all Somalis? I only referenced certain clan traditions associated with it. To be blunt, I am not concerned about the ancient History of Somalia as there is no oral or written Historical trail which can give us an idea about the History of this land going back 3000 to 5000 years etc. Furthermore, due to my bias, I am falling back on genetics to decipher my own personal History as I do not even think my paternal ancestors were necessarily in the Horn during that time frame.

Last edited by eli; 05-25-2021 at 03:08 AM.
Mirix 5/25/2021 2:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by eli

The written sources do not tell the full story as I have demonstrated with the Ajuran, Degodi, Gaaljecel and Hawiye examples. Provide me with one contemporary source written by a non-Somali or a Somali corroborating the History that you just acknowledged regarding the Ajuran? If Hawiye always lived in the same area then how come we have clans living in places as geographically apart as NFD, in the vicinity of Harar, South-Central Somalia? A similar case can be made for the Dir clan. For instance, the Biimaal are not recorded as living in Merca during the 12th century, their oral History, and that of the clans that they neighbour, state that the Biimaal migrated there at a much later period. Which historical text supports the above details?

The oral traditions and sources down south has also been analyzed as well. Dir , Isaaq , Hawiye and Raxanweyn inhabit relatively restricted geographical areas and there is no evidence of their clan families making any major movements in recent centuries at all.

In the south, Cerulli has collected and analysed the traditions of various Hawiye and Rahanwin groups.37 Most of this material relates only to

relatively minor local movements within southern Somalia. These affirm that Tunni, Hawiye, Ajuran and Jiddu Somali have been in the south for many centuries, as the written evidence indicated.

As for their contention that they came from the north-over nine centuries ago-this can be seen as a necessary accompaniment to their myths of descent from Arabian immigrants. People who know enough and care enough to fabricate genealogies tracing their ancestry back to Muhammad's uncle are not likely to claim to have come from southern Ethiopia. Most of the Somali clan families-Dir, Isaq, Hawiye, Rahanwin inhabit relatively restricted areas, and there is no evidence that they have made any recent major movements. The Darod clan-family, on the other hand, has such a wide distribution that a recent expansion is indicated. This Darod movement must be seen as a recent and secondary dispersal, not an indication of the general trend of Somali migration. The Somali oral traditions about their origins are suspect, because of the great time depth involved-at least I,ooo years-and because of theoverriding importance of the claim of Arabian descent. But even taken at face value they do not provide much foundation for the hypothesis of a northern origin

What is generally true for you is not necessarily the uncontested 'truth' for everyone nor is it generally supported by the History of all Somalis as you have insinuated.

What i am saying is that there is no truths to the Sanaag insinuation of origins when a lot of these major clan families have been living in same areas. Somalis are an ethnic group that share a common descent, language etc, one clan cannot originate in one place and others elsewhere in their early history. One sub clan potentially moving to another place where another Somali group lives or making small local movements does not change anything really.

]Where did I state that Sanaag is a recent locus point for all Somalis? I only referenced certain clan traditions associated with it. To be blunt, I am not concerned about the ancient History of Somalia as there is no oral or written Historical trail which can give us an idea about the History of this land going back 3000 to 5000 years etc. Furthermore, due to my bias, I am falling back on genetics to decipher my own personal History as I do not even think my paternal ancestors were necessarily in the Horn during that time frame.

There is linguistic and archeological data that can tell us about Somalis and as well as genetic data in the absence of historcal sources. Archeaological evidence tells us that there has been a pastoral habitat and a unique cairn building culture across. As early as 7000 years.

Genetic evidence tells us that the Y chromosome marker that characterizes Somalis , shows us that Somalis as a member of Eastern Cushitic , had been in their present homeland for about the last 4500-5000 years or so within this seperate gene marker. .

Not only that linguitic evidence even caste light on the ancient occupatancy of Somalis in the horn either via reconstructions or loan-language comparisons. Raxanweyn and Tunni clans based on their language/dialects have been in their present homeland for many thousands of years and the sam with Northern-Coastal Somalis.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-25-2021 at 09:58 AM.
eli 5/25/2021 3:41:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mirix

The oral traditions and sources down south has also been analyzed as well. Dir , Isaaq , Hawiye and Raxanweyn inhabit relatively restricted geographical areas and there is no evidence of their clan families making any major movements in recent centuries at all.

I did not ask you to provide me with a source written in the past century or so. I asked you, rhetorically, to present evidence which is contemporaneous to distant Historical events that occurred in Southern Somalia such as the Ajuran dispersal. You haven't presented anything original.

Originally Posted by Mirix

Lool. What i am saying is that there is no truths to the Sanaag insinuation of origins when a lot of these major clan families have been living in same areas. Somalis are an ethnic group that share a common descent, language etc, one clan cannot originate in one place and others elsewhere in their early history. One sub clan potentially moving to another place where another Somali group lives or making small local movements does not change anything really.

Did I not previously state that the Sanaag traditions I referenced are the oral History of the clans in question? Did I not state that this does not make them necessarily factual? Did I not also emphasise that I used them to highlight how clans did not view themselves as wedded to the land they currently inhabit? I asked you questions which displayed your inconsistent use of Historical sources, be they Primary Written Texts or Oral references. You have not answered them. How could a clan like Hawiye who live in multiple locations support your initial assertion that clan boundaries have remained static etc. throughout Somali History? How come the Biimaal are not listed as living in Merca in the 12th century if clan boundaries have historically been static? etc.

Originally Posted by Mirix

There is linguistic and archeological data that can tell us about Somalis and as well as genetic data in the absence of historcal sources. Archeaological evidence tells us that there has been a pastoral habitat and a unique cairn building culture across. As early as 7000 years.

Genetic evidence tells us that the Y chromosome marker that characterizes Somalis , shows us that Somalis as a member of Eastern Cushitic , had been in their present homeland for about the last 4500-5000 years or so within this seperate gene marker. .

Not only that linguitic evidence even caste light on the ancient occupatancy of Somalis in the horn either via reconstructions or loan-language comparisons. Raxanweyn and Tunni clans based on their language/dialects have been in their present homeland for many thousands of years and the sam with Northern-Coastal Somalis.

Were my ancestors in Africa 7000ybp? There is a much higher chance that my paternal ancestors were somewhere near the Levant 7000ybp. I ain't E-V32. Let us not ruin Awale's thread any further. I am out. Patience is a bloody virtue with some folk!

Last edited by Moderator; 05-29-2021 at 07:22 PM.

Reason: ToS 3.14 Violation - Provocative and accusatory language removed.
Mirix 5/25/2021 4:07:00 PM

Watch the accussatory language. Lets keep this civil. Take the oral & written sources together and it will give you the same picture.

Hawiye still live in the general areas which they have always been for several centuries in south-central especially since their recording and more. A sub clan moving here or there or a few migrant individuals founding a hawiye sub elsewhere, doesn't change their overral distributions in their locus. Those in Harar have been pretty much living there since their recording in Futah. There is no evidence that the whole group living there moved elsewhere.

Same with Dir. The whole clan family hasn't moved elsewhere they are concentrated more in one particular geographical restricted area with Bimaal being an outlier.

I am not so much talking exactly about E-V32 as i am talking about the High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males. This is what characterizes bulk of the majority of Somalis and this marker has it's origins in Somalis in our present day homeland.

In Somalis, the TMRCA was estimated to be 4000–5000 years for the haplogroup E3b1 cluster γ and 2100–2200 years for the haplogroup K2 assuming a generation time of 25 years

A lot was written but very little was said. Not interest in arguing for the sake of arguing, the thread has already been derailed by a certain someone arguing with lengthy inchorent essays with different people across several pages.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-25-2021 at 10:14 AM.
NetNomad 5/29/2021 8:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mirix

I am not so much talking exactly about E-V32 as i am talking about the High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males. This is what characterizes bulk of the majority of Somalis and this marker has it's origins in Somalis in our present day homeland.

It was taken from Denmark in the early 2000s. Most Somalis there at that time were mostly Darod and Hawiye. It also looks like Benadiri lineages are overrepresented.

Frequency of T in Somalis can vary widely depending where it is taken. In Dire Dawa it reached like 80%. Some small towns in the Somali province of Ethiopia it also reached 50%.
Mirix 5/30/2021 12:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

It was taken from Denmark in the early 2000s. Most Somalis there at that time were mostly Darod and Hawiye. It also looks like Benadiri lineages are overrepresented.

Frequency of T in Somalis can vary widely depending where it is taken. In Dire Dawa it reached like 80%. Some small towns in the Somali province of Ethiopia it also reached 50%.

The recent genome wide analysis kindly answers this: Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population

However, recent evidences based on Y-STR haplotypes studied on Somalis from diverse geographic locations and clans suggest that ethnic Somalis are largely homogenous17, supporting the representativeness of our samples for the larger Somali population.

The high T in some Ogaden and Dir groups is most likely due to founder effect. I noted this particular Y cluster because it originated in the Somali population in the Horn Of Africa, then introduced elsewhere and is the most widely distributed among Somalis. The Times Most Recent Ancestor for this is 4000-5000 years and acts as evidence for the ancient occupancy of Somalis an ethnic group in the Horn.

Last edited by Mirix; 05-29-2021 at 06:17 PM.
Mnemonics 5/30/2021 12:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mirix

The recent genome wide analysis kindly answers this: Genome-wide analyses disclose the distinctive HLA architecture and the pharmacogenetic landscape of the Somali population

The high T in some Ogaden and Dir groups is most likely due to founder effect. I noted this particular Y cluster because it originated in the Somali population in the Horn Of Africa, then introduced elsewhere and is the most widely distributed among Somalis. The Times Most Recent Ancestor for this is 4000-5000 years and acts as evidence for the ancient occupancy of Somalis an ethnic group in the Horn.

Those Somalis are entirely from Bosaso in Puntland so they may not be entirely representative. I turned those samples into 23andme files but unfortunately they have pretty poor overlap with the 1240K snp set.

Last edited by Mnemonics; 05-29-2021 at 06:47 PM.
Mirix 5/30/2021 1:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mnemonics

Those Somalis are entirely from Bosaso in Puntland so they may not be entirely representative. I turned those samples into 23andme files but unfortunately they have pretty poor overlap with the 1240K snp set.

Look at what i qouted. They cited that that studies on Y-STR haplotypes studied on Somalis from diverse geographic locations and clans suggest that ethnic Somalis are largely homogenous , supporting the representativeness of our samples for the larger Somali population.

As well as:

In addition, frequencies of ABO and Rh blood groups estimated in this study are consistent with those found in an earlier study performed in 1987 by the Somali Red Crescent Society and the Finnish Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service who analyzed 1,026 blood samples of Somalis from the entire country26. Although ABO/Rh systems tend to show similar distributions for all neighboring populations, our genotypic blood group estimation is remarkably very close to the previously reported Somali phenotypic blood group data, again supporting a representative Somali population in our cohort.

I don't know what's been argued about, because i was saying that particular Y cluster shows that ethnic Somali ancestors were in their present homeland 4500-5000 years ago. That marker is significant because it orignates within the Somali population in the Horn. T however isn't

And yes Somali are largely homogenous .
NetNomad 6/1/2021 3:27:00 PM

Found another E-M293 Somali on 23andMe (new). His clan is Gaaljecel. The other one was Degoodia. These two clans both descend from Saransor (abtiris).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardhere

Maybe there is something to this..
Mirix 6/11/2021 8:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Does the South have Madhibaan,Tumaal and Yibir? I always wondered who were the blacksmiths of the south

Artisan bondsmen groups exist spread out amongst almost every Somali clan family and widely scattered.. Madhibaan are the most numerous and widely distributed among them, you can find them in Ethiopia, South Somalia, Somaliland, Djibouti and NorthernEastern Kenya etc and they do not constitute a single clan or related to eachother, but come from different clan groups usually from the clan families and lineages they attach themselves to.

Yibir exist only scattered across Somaliland i believe and they have been steadily decreasing in number though. The Tumaal exist both in Somaliland and most numerous among easterners Like Dhulbahante and Majerteen they claim Darood lineage. Tumaals found big inclusion in the Hobyo sultanate and was hired into important positions.

In the south in Merka a section of Bimaal that are artisans who live on the coast called the Fashaale/Kafaari they are craftsmen and blacksmiths and then there are ones that are Abgaal/Hiraab called Juunji they are traditionally blacksmiths and shoemakers. Some also prepare hides and skins. They also work as porters , masons and carpenters in Merka and Mogadishu coast.

In Barawa most of the coastal Tunni's are artisans, weavers and craftsmen. They are also builders.

There probably exist other ones that i am not aware of. But i suspect among the Raxanweyn it's less relegated to bondsmen because of their different subsistence level. Much like how it is in the fertile Harar uplands among Hawiye and a few other clans which Richard Burton noted.

Because among the Raxanweyn they have a group of reewin artisan and craftmen called Eemaar who are an association headed by an Aw(Father), ruling the raan(members) and another group called Ooji(Contstruction workers). They are not considered low strata.

Last edited by Mirix; 06-11-2021 at 05:13 PM.
farjanomar 6/12/2021 7:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Found another E-M293 Somali on 23andMe (new). His clan is Gaaljecel. The other one was Degoodia. These two clans both descend from Saransor (abtiris).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardhere

Maybe there is something to this..

That's interesting. It will be good to know, how many E-M293 Somalis, we each have on our 23andme relatives list.

I have two:

One is either Banadiri/Barawani or mixed. He is only 61% Autosomal Somali, and 39% mostly Eurasian and Ethiopian/Eritrean.

He is from the US.

The second one is from Mandera (kenyan Somali) lives in the Uk.

Last edited by farjanomar; 06-12-2021 at 01:21 AM.

Reason: did not mean it
Typic 6/14/2021 9:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

That's interesting. It will be good to know, how many E-M293 Somalis, we each have on our 23andme relatives list.

I have two:

One is either Banadiri/Barawani or mixed. He is only 61% Autosomal Somali, and 39% mostly Eurasian and Ethiopian/Eritrean.

He is from the US.

The second one is from Mandera (kenyan Somali) lives in the Uk.

I have at least one confirmed claiming to be from Jigjiga. 98.8% Somali and the rest equal other Horner and Peninsular Arab.
drobbah 6/15/2021 7:18:00 PM

I think the vast majority of the low frequency E-M293 in Somalia proper is probably from Afro-Arabs perhaps in Northern Kenya or Ethiopia is it more possible that it came from Cushitic/Ethio-Semitic sources.I still don't have a single match with that haplogroup
Megatron 6/15/2021 10:38:00 PM

I have a Warsengeli relative on my 23andme relatives list that carries E-M293. According to his bio his mother is Hawiya and his paternal grandmother is Isaaq (‘Iise Muse). His father is a northern Warsengeli.
drobbah 6/15/2021 10:48:00 PM

Warsengali seem to have some of the highest percentages of foreign male haplogroups among Northern Somalis.It's possible his lineage is from an Afro-Arab.There's a match of mine with significant Arab admixture (~20% Arabian plus 0.2% SE African) and claims on his bio that his paternal grandfather is from Yemen but carries Haplogroup A.
NetNomad 6/20/2021 12:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Warsengali seem to have some of the highest percentages of foreign male haplogroups among Northern Somalis.It's possible his lineage is from an Afro-Arab.There's a match of mine with significant Arab admixture (~20% Arabian plus 0.2% SE African) and claims on his bio that his paternal grandfather is from Yemen but carries Haplogroup A.

Even R1b! has been found in Warsangelis. I think a large scale study (over a 100 samples) from a variety of Warsangelis needs to be done. I think the majority will be E-Y163949 and the runner up J-Y178103, but where all this other stuff (R1b, E-M293 etc.) comes from is quite mysterious.

PS. In a few weeks hopefully we will get an Arab Salah Full Y. It would be quite peculiar if he becomes J-Y178103.
farjanomar 6/23/2021 5:34:00 PM

Yfull has been updated. What do you guys think?
NetNomad 6/23/2021 10:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yfull has been updated. What do you guys think?

The T Somali update is interesting.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY181210/
drobbah 6/24/2021 7:33:00 PM

Well this update took the Palestinian E-Z813 into account which made the clade a bit younger than before.Not much change this time for us E-Y18629 Somalis
drobbah 7/3/2021 12:44:00 AM

Gedo sample (probably Marexaan) was added alongside those Hartis.E-Y163928 is looking like the original Daarood lineage as I predicted before, all that's left for the Darood's are the Absame and Jidwaaq
Awale 7/3/2021 2:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Gedo sample (probably Marexaan) was added alongside those Hartis.E-Y163928 is looking like the original Daarood lineage as I predicted before, all that's left for the Darood's are the Absame and Jidwaaq

He is indeed Mareexaan. He is "Mujahid Nur Marehan" over at Somalispot: [Bad Link]

Hidden Content

"There is no satisfying a Somali with meat. He cannot have sufficient. If a man would give all the substance of a buck to him it would utterly be condemned"

Hidden Content
drobbah 7/3/2021 2:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Even R1b! has been found in Warsangelis. I think a large scale study (over a 100 samples) from a variety of Warsangelis needs to be done. I think the majority will be E-Y163949 and the runner up J-Y178103, but where all this other stuff (R1b, E-M293 etc.) comes from is quite mysterious.

PS. In a few weeks hopefully we will get an Arab Salah Full Y. It would be quite peculiar if he becomes J-Y178103.

I think he uploaded his sample, there's another Sanaagian J1 that shares the same exact clade as the other Somali J-P58 sample
NetNomad 7/3/2021 5:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think he uploaded his sample, there's another Sanaagian J1 that shares the same exact clade as the other Somali J-P58 sample

Interesting.. I was expecting Arab Salahs to have a different version of J1.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y178104/

The Arabian origin story of the Darod ethnogenesis might be based on that man (Somali version of J-Y178104) forming an alliance with an already established E-Y163949 tribe. Perhaps the name Darod was the name of the native Somali clan (E-Y163949), while Isma'il al-Jabarti actually existed (J-Y178104?).

Only an archaeogenetic study sequencing his grave can settle whether he was J-Y178104 or E-Y163949.

Last edited by NetNomad; 07-02-2021 at 11:50 PM.
drobbah 7/3/2021 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Interesting.. I was expecting Arab Salahs to have a different version of J1.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y178104/

I now think that the Arabian origin story of the Darod ethnogenesis is based on that man (Somali version of J-Y178104) forming an alliance with an already established E-Y163949 tribe. Perhaps the name Darod was the name of the native Somali clan (E-Y163949), while Isma'il al-Jabarti actually existed (J-Y178104?).

Only an archaeogenetic study sequencing Darod's grave can settle whether he was J-Y178104 or E-Y163949. Likely J-Y178104, IMO.

I think these myths of Arabian/Hashemite origins among Daroods & Isaaqs is quite recent.There is no mention of Arabian/Quraishi origin of the Daaroods in the Futuh Al Habasha.The Marexaan leader had to give up horses (sadaqa) to actual Arabian 'Quraishis' like the Ba'alawi as a way to pay blood money for a dead Adalite messenger

The Futuh mentions decent sized contigents of Mehri men with similar manpower to large sized modern Somali subclans and even brought more men then the Harti.The vast majority of these Mehri due to geographic proximity were likely absorbed by the Hartis and nearby Somalis.It is quite possible the other non-Harti J-P58 Somalis are just Mehri who were adopted into the clan system including some in the Madhibaan

The E-M183 non-coastal Sheikhaal are a great example of medieval foreign men (who's Maghrebi sheikh ancestors were mentioned in the Futuh) creating their own clan and end up being Somalianized.I suspect their are certain Isaaq subclans and sub-units that will turn out foreign as Megatron pointed out J1 in an HJ individual (probably Mehri type).

I already suspect the Arap subclan who are E-V22 & E-M78* to be foreign but it could turn out their E-V22 could be a local Somali or Horner variant.

Last edited by drobbah; 07-02-2021 at 11:47 PM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
NetNomad 7/3/2021 6:38:00 AM

@drobbah ; @Awale; @farjanomar; @Omaar; @Delftextra;

There are some J1 guys in the Somali FTDNA project who did Big Y recently. Not sure if the most recent J1 Somali yfull upload is the Arab Salah guy or not.
drobbah 7/3/2021 3:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@drobbah ; @Awale; @farjanomar; @Omaar; @Delftextra;

There are some J1 guys in the Somali FTDNA project who did Big Y recently. Not sure if the most recent J1 Somali yfull upload is the Arab Salah guy or not.

You are right there is a third J-P58 Somali sample who clusters with Omani,Mahra and Socotran samples that share a recent medieval tmrca.Those Sanaagian J1s must be far more ancient than the medieval period then, very interesting!

Last edited by drobbah; 07-03-2021 at 09:52 AM.
Omaar 7/4/2021 10:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@drobbah ; @Awale; @farjanomar; @Omaar; @Delftextra;

There are some J1 guys in the Somali FTDNA project who did Big Y recently. Not sure if the most recent J1 Somali yfull upload is the Arab Salah guy or not.

"Un gruppo Mahrī nella Somalia italiana." Authors : Cerulli, Enrico. 1926

"A Mahrī group in Italian Somalia." Authors: Cerulli, Enrico. 1926

[Bad Link]
drobbah 7/7/2021 9:48:00 PM

Deleted

Last edited by drobbah; 07-07-2021 at 03:50 PM.
drobbah 7/10/2021 7:11:00 AM

Another Gedo sample (probably Marexaan) clustering with the Borana and Amhara.E-Y161124 is an Oromo subclade imo
NetNomad 7/10/2021 8:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Another Gedo sample (probably Marexaan) clustering with the Borana and Amhara.E-Y161124 is an Oromo subclade imo

I think Darod subclans tend to have a sizable cohort that are not E-Y163928 / E-Y163949. Looks like a pattern now.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/10/2021 12:33:00 PM

That's a Garre tuf sub clan sample, it's not Marehan.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/10/2021 12:38:00 PM

I oploaded my sample a week ago, I'm Marehan reer ugaas Diini, my sub clade is E-Y163949*. Marehan we are treu Darod, its a Garre sample my friend just told me.

Last edited by Mujahid Nur Marehan; 07-10-2021 at 08:18 AM.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/10/2021 2:22:00 PM

Insh'Allah their will be many more Marehan samples to come. So far Garadada Marehan and many Marehan are testing positive for sub clade E-Y163949* I'm confident rest of Marehan will have similar results.
NetNomad 7/10/2021 3:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

That's a Garre tuf sub clan sample, it's not Marehan.

Interesting.

Nice to see some samples from rare clans.
drobbah 7/10/2021 9:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I oploaded my sample a week ago, I'm Marehan reer ugaas Diini, my sub clade is E-Y163949*. Marehan we are treu Darod, its a Garre sample my friend just told me.

Makes sense that the sample is Garre and not Marexaan.The Garre today are basically Oromos with their own unique identity and speak Boran as their first language.The other Garre sample in the ftdna project seems similar to the deep tested Garre based on the strs.I think that Garre on yfull will form young subclade with the Borana.The Amhara sample probably represents the original Barentu E-V32 lineage.Hopefully some of the Oromos start taking the BigY or Dante as they are the largest cushitic ethnicity in the world and a group quite close to us Somalis (LE Cushitic and heavy historical interactions with a long ethnic border)
NetNomad 7/12/2021 1:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Makes sense that the sample is Garre and not Marexaan.The Garre today are basically Oromos with their own unique identity and speak Boran as their first language.The other Garre sample in the ftdna project seems similar to the deep tested Garre based on the strs.I think that Garre on yfull will form young subclade with the Borana.The Amhara sample probably represents the original Barentu E-V32 lineage.Hopefully some of the Oromos start taking the BigY or Dante as they are the largest cushitic ethnicity in the world and a group quite close to us Somalis (LE Cushitic and heavy historical interactions with a long ethnic border)

Are Oromos tribally paternal like Somalis or do they identify more with their town/region and have regional identities?

From the Y studies I have seen of Horners, it seems like only Sahos, Afars, and Somalis are heavily bottlenecked paternally. Perhaps also North Kenyan Boranas, but the sample size of them was small. Ethiopian Oromos seem paternally more diverse/less bottlenecked.
drobbah 7/13/2021 7:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Are Oromos tribally paternal like Somalis or do they identify more with their town/region and have regional identities?

Oromos just like Somalis are tribally paternal.The name of their ethnic group just like Somalis goes back to their mythical ancestor Oromo who had two sons Barentu & Boran, the only difference between us and them is that they are openly willing to assimilate foreign males into the Oromo nation via the Gadaa system.Somalis are far more xenophobic culturally then the Oromos.

From the Y studies I have seen of Horners, it seems like only Sahos, Afars, and Somalis are heavily bottlenecked paternally. Perhaps also North Kenyan Boranas, but the sample size of them was small. Ethiopian Oromos seem paternally more diverse/less bottlenecked.

The Ethiopian Oromos are also autosomally more diverse as well and this all goes back to the Medieval Oromo migrations and the assimilation of many ethnic groups through the Gadaa system.I won't be surprised if we find Somali-specific lineages among the Afran Qallo Oromos excluding their Akichu & Jaarso brothers.I predict that E-Y161124 would be one of the original and perhaps dominant lineage of the pre-expansion Oromo pastoralist clans which is why the Amhara sample carries it.The Habesha/Northern Cushitic variant of E-V32 seems to solidly be E-FGC14383 as the basal ETH sample is actually an Agaw speaking Ethiopian Jew if I'm not mistaken

Last edited by drobbah; 07-13-2021 at 02:39 PM.

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
drobbah 7/14/2021 12:44:00 AM

Some quotes from a book I was reading about Oromos:

There is no exact Oromo term for clan.The closer term is Gosa, which is not just a clan, but 'a large category of descent groups which includes all peoples descended from a mythical or common ancestor.Gosa is also 'one of the mechanisms for defining individual and collective identity' within Oromo society...Together with with the Gadaa systme and Qaalluu institution, gosa appears to have shaped the course of Oromo history.Members of a gosa have rights and obligations for helping each other in different situations.As Paul Baxter observed among the Borana, members of a gosa should render each other every sort of assistance, contributions to fines, hospitality,help with herding, gifts in misfortune and distributions from fortunes of booty

It was precisely for these reasons that young boys were taught about family tree within a gosa.According to Haberland, a boy of five years knows the names of his forefathers to the depth of 12 to 15 generations. The basic rules of gosa include descent through paternal line, strict exogamous marriage, territorially defined area that bears a name of a particular gosa

Seems quite similar to Somalis if you ask me

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 7/16/2021 11:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think these myths of Arabian/Hashemite origins among Daroods & Isaaqs is quite recent.There is no mention of Arabian/Quraishi origin of the Daaroods in the Futuh Al Habasha.The Marexaan leader had to give up horses (sadaqa) to actual Arabian 'Quraishis' like the Ba'alawi as a way to pay blood money for a dead Adalite messenger

The Futuh mentions decent sized contigents of Mehri men with similar manpower to large sized modern Somali subclans and even brought more men then the Harti.The vast majority of these Mehri due to geographic proximity were likely absorbed by the Hartis and nearby Somalis.It is quite possible the other non-Harti J-P58 Somalis are just Mehri who were adopted into the clan system including some in the Madhibaan

The E-M183 non-coastal Sheikhaal are a great example of medieval foreign men (who's Maghrebi sheikh ancestors were mentioned in the Futuh) creating their own clan and end up being Somalianized.I suspect their are certain Isaaq subclans and sub-units that will turn out foreign as Megatron pointed out J1 in an HJ individual (probably Mehri type).

I already suspect the Arap subclan who are E-V22 & E-M78* to be foreign but it could turn out their E-V22 could be a local Somali or Horner variant.

Its interesting that Non Coastal Sheikhals are E-M183. I was going to test my roommate who is AwQudub, but he said No.
drobbah 7/19/2021 6:20:00 AM

An Eastern Saudi sample has joined the Gedo sample in the possibly proto-Oromo E-Y161124 subclade.Things are getting interesting
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/28/2021 11:33:00 PM

I predict that Jidwaaq who are original inhabitants of Jigjiga and Marehan will form a subclade. Futux records that Geri and Marehan had a land conflict. Today the jidwaaq tribes border Geri tribe. At the time of Futux the Marehan Garaad Hirabu met the Iman between Harar and Saylac.Also alott of Jidwaaq claim to be reer Hodenbare. While Marehan abtirsi ends at Hodanbari ma rexaan. Also Amiir Nur is recorded to be from in arabic Suha Duha or reer HodanBari ma Rexaan.

Last edited by Mujahid Nur Marehan; 07-28-2021 at 05:45 PM.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/29/2021 10:47:00 AM

There is a new E-BY8081sample. Is it Majerteen or reer Cabdile Ogaden?
farjanomar 7/29/2021 11:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

There is a new E-BY8081sample. Is it Majerteen or reer Cabdile Ogaden?

He is on FTDNA. Recently got his big Y result. (MJ-Osman M)
Abdirahman 8/2/2021 11:36:00 PM

Hey brother. I wanted to ask you about this DNA and haplogroups because you seem to know much about it.

My first question is, is it possible for two people with different Y-haplogroups (maybe because of a random mutation) to share a ancestor? For example can two people do this so called snp-markers or str-markers and see how related or close they are to each other even if they have different y-haplogroups. My other question is why doesn't 23andMe not add Somaliland regions like they do with Somalia, 23andMe seem to have very inaccurate maps and just groups everyone to Banadir region for example as I have seen on people that tested 23andMe.

Last edited by Abdirahman; 08-02-2021 at 06:23 PM.
NetNomad 8/9/2021 6:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Abdirahman

Hey brother. I wanted to ask you about this DNA and haplogroups because you seem to know much about it.

My first question is, is it possible for two people with different Y-haplogroups (maybe because of a random mutation) to share a ancestor? For example can two people do this so called snp-markers or str-markers and see how related or close they are to each other even if they have different y-haplogroups.

Yes, through other ancestors who don't fall on the direct paternal or the direct maternal line. Most ancestors actually don't. That is why autosomal DNA is important as well.

Originally Posted by Abdirahman

My other question is why doesn't 23andMe not add Somaliland regions like they do with Somalia, 23andMe seem to have very inaccurate maps and just groups everyone to Banadir region for example as I have seen on people that tested 23andMe.

Most Somalis on 23andMe are Western diaspora (US, CA, UK, EU) who left the Horn from Mogadishu (90s war). Many of the zoomers have grandparents born in Mogadishu and fill this in the survey, even if they are ancestrally truly from different places within the Horn (K5, Puntland etc). So take the Banaadir provincial category with a grain of salt. The other ones are semi-accurate.
Araz 8/27/2021 2:53:00 PM

ASC brothers, I just joined this group today and read the posts with a lot of interest. I am new to this stuff but fascinated by the findings and happy to learn more from you. I got my BigY recently and waiting for my yfull analysis to be completed. I am E-Y196848 (from E-BY8085 - E-Y18637). There are two other E-Y196848 (father and son) all of us Majertein Cismaan Maxamud. We are also related on 23andme - I am second cousin twice removed with his father. I am noticing how the few MJ Cismaan Maxamud don't seem to have the same recent paternal lineage and the results seem all over the place. For example, before BigY I clustered with an Omar Maxamud guy but after BigY and a new guy joining in we have formed our own group with his father. The Omar Maxamud guy is now clustered with another Cisman Maxamud. I can't figure this out! What do you think? I noticed you've been mentioning a Libyan guy who must be Somali (E-BY8085). He comes up as my relative at 67 markers as does a Jordanian guy (E-BY7964), a Saudi (E-M35) and a Sudanese (E-M35).

Last edited by Araz; 08-28-2021 at 01:35 AM.
drobbah 10/10/2021 6:42:00 PM

The Dir Muse Dhariye sample and the Ugaaslabe sample are both under Y18637. Considering the age of Y18637, perhaps it’s responsible for spreading the parent language of Af-Somali & Af May? Way to many Somalis are falling under that bottleneck except for us Habar Awal and a large percentage of the Darood.
NetNomad 10/13/2021 5:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Dir Muse Dhariye sample and the Ugaaslabe sample are both under Y18637. Considering the age of Y18637, perhaps it’s responsible for spreading the parent language of Af-Somali & Af May? Way to many Somalis are falling under that bottleneck except for us Habar Awal and a large percentage of the Darood.

What timeframe do linguists claim Maay and Maxaa split? They seem fairly close to me, but that could also be because of recent Maxaa influence on Maay (from media, schooling etc.). If I were to guess, I'd say 2K years before present? Distance feels to me like about the same as the various West Germanic languages.

I hear those other Somali-like languages in the South like Jiddu, Garre, and Tunni are linguistically substantially further removed from Maxaa. It will be hard to find Jiddus and Tunnis in the West, but Garres might upload to yfull sooner or later.
farjanomar 10/14/2021 2:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Dir Muse Dhariye sample and the Ugaaslabe sample are both under Y18637. Considering the age of Y18637, perhaps it’s responsible for spreading the parent language of Af-Somali & Af May? Way to many Somalis are falling under that bottleneck except for us Habar Awal and a large percentage of the Darood.

Yeah, It also looks like, perhaps the largest single Somali lineage. Only less than 15 big Y, results, on Yfull and already has 5 major Downstream lineages.

E-Y18637:

:BY8081 BY8085 BY8100 BY192465 Y229072:
NetNomad 10/15/2021 4:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yeah, It also looks like, perhaps the largest single Somali lineage. Only less than 15 big Y, results, on Yfull and already has 5 major Downstream lineages.

E-Y18637:

:BY8081 BY8085 BY8100 BY192465 Y229072:

I bet some people will eventually claim it is Samaale's SNP.
farjanomar 10/22/2021 1:56:00 AM

Hi everyone!

Yfull has been updated. There are some changes to the tmrca's of both Somali E and T.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 10/22/2021 7:36:00 AM

It's looking messy for Somali oral geneiology the two Sameroon have formed a sister sibling sub clade, instead of forming the same clade. It seems old clans had alott of integration back and forth and didn't seem to have a strict sub clan identity.
Garaacad 11/4/2021 4:39:00 PM

New here need help understanding this.

Why has the TMRCA changed for Majeerteens from 750 to 1200 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081*/
NetNomad 11/4/2021 5:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Why has the TMRCA changed for Majeerteens from 750 to 1200 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081*/

You are better off asking this question in this thread where Somalis discuss Y stuff.

[Bad Link]
Garaacad 11/4/2021 5:34:00 PM

Why has the TMRCA changed for Majeerteens from 750 to 1200 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081*/
Garaacad 11/4/2021 5:35:00 PM

I’m asking because I’m Majeerteen myself. I’m new here.

Last edited by Garaacad; 11-04-2021 at 11:37 AM.
NetNomad 11/4/2021 7:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Why has the TMRCA changed for Majeerteens from 750 to 1200 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081*/

TMRCAs change as more samples are uploaded.

It is very volatile when there are only a handful of samples, but it stabilizes when there are many samples.

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I’m asking because I’m Majeerteen myself. I’m new here.

E-FT81055 are also Majeerteens, but not from the Saleebaan group.
Garaacad 11/4/2021 8:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

TMRCAs change as more samples are uploaded.

It is very volatile when there are only a handful of samples, but it stabilizes when there are many samples.

E-FT81055 are also Majeerteens, but not from the Saleebaan group.

What sub clan of Majeerteen is E-FT81055.

Last edited by Garaacad; 11-05-2021 at 09:17 AM.

Reason: Make my comment easier to understand.
NetNomad 11/6/2021 8:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What sub clan of Majeerteen is E-FT81055.

Message farjanomar. He is one of those samples.
drobbah 11/6/2021 11:32:00 AM

Found a Bah Gob Sacad Muuse who is E-V32+ on 23&me with the only other Bah Gob sample being the user GabrielZelalem who is T-M70+.Obviously this continues to support my hyopthesis of the Habar Awal being a clan based on a medieval founder that perhaps probably incoporated other Isaaqs or Dir.The Bah Gob are Hussein Abokor (at least 30-40% of Sacad Muuse belong to this clan),Bah Gob historically live alongside my Jibriil Abokor clan.I would assume if one of these Hussein Abokor brothers took the BigY they would probably belong to a subclade of E-BY75676 or perhaps the same subclade as me and the other Jibriil Abokor fellow

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Iran_N

Target: Drobbah

Distance: 2.0743% / 0.02074295

93.0 Kenya_Pastoral

7.0 Saudi
farjanomar 11/6/2021 10:45:00 PM

We are going to have a new Major 4th SNP of E-Y18629 in next few months. I am in contact with owner of kit # MK70058

in group 1.4. He has upgraded to big Y. Also 1-2 other People in the group said, they will upgrade, when the holiday

discount becomes available.

Last edited by farjanomar; 11-06-2021 at 06:03 PM.
drobbah 11/7/2021 2:56:00 AM

The Somali J1 samples (J-Y179455) have a subclade that separated from the rest of their Yemeni brothers 2500 years ago but also have a medieval founder effect like most other major Somali clans regardless of haplogroup lol.Seems like this lineage might have been among the early proto-Somali speakers prior to the Somali (Af-Maxay) expansion.We need some of those E-L677 Somalis (mostly from the Isaaq Arap subclan) to take the BigY
Garaacad 11/7/2021 7:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

We are going to have a new Major 4th SNP of E-Y18629 in next few months. I am in contact with owner of kit # MK70058

in group 1.4. He has upgraded to big Y. Also 1-2 other People in the group said, they will upgrade, when the holiday

discount becomes available.

Bit off topic but what is your sub clan of Majeerteen.
Garaacad 11/14/2021 8:42:00 PM

@Farjanomar I don’t have enough posts to PM you. I would just like to know the relationship of Majeerteens and Samaales
farjanomar 11/18/2021 4:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@Farjanomar I don’t have enough posts to PM you. I would just like to know the relationship of Majeerteens and Samaales

I sent a private message. Also, my background is on FTDNA kit #B679308.

Have you taken a test?
NetNomad 11/18/2021 3:49:00 PM

We need more Southern Big Y or Full Y test takers to know where E-Y18637 is most diverse. The South or the North? So far, it has more subclades in the North, but this could be sampling bias (more North Somalis have taken these tests).

E-BY8100 which the Saudis fellows carry could potentially be of Southern Somali origin as Arabia and Southern coastal Somalia seemingly had more population interchange than Northern Somalia and Arabia did.

PS. With North vs South I am using Mudug as the border between the two areas. Not using it in the colloquial sense of Waqooyi Galbeed.
Garaacad 11/18/2021 7:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I sent a private message. Also, my background is on FTDNA kit #B679308.

Have you taken a test?

I haven’t but I will in a couple of years. I’d just like to know the basics first because I’m quite clueless about everything right now. I’ve also seen your private message I know your clan background. The reason I asked is because I wanted to know if any Majeerteen sub clan had clustered with Daroods.

Last edited by Garaacad; 11-18-2021 at 12:21 PM.
Garaacad 11/18/2021 7:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

We need more Southern Big Y or Full Y test takers to know where E-Y18637 is most diverse. The South or the North? So far, it has more subclades in the North, but this could be sampling bias (more North Somalis have taken these tests).

E-BY8100 which the Saudis fellows carry could potentially be of Southern Somali origin as Arabia and Southern coastal Somalia seemingly had more population interchange than Northern Somalia and Arabia did.

PS. With North vs South I am using Mudug as the border between the two areas. Not using it in the colloquial sense of Waqooyi Galbeed.

Do you have any Hawiye results already. I’m a bit confused are Majeerteens a Southern population originally ? Are Majeerteens older or younger than Hawiyes ?
NetNomad 11/18/2021 10:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Do you have any Hawiye results already. I’m a bit confused are Majeerteens a Southern population originally ? Are Majeerteens older or younger than Hawiyes ?

The TMRCA difference is not recent. I don't see how you come to that conclusion.
Garaacad 11/19/2021 4:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

The TMRCA difference is not recent. I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

As I was reading through this thread someone suggested E-Y18637 will be representative of proto-Somaal (before the af-maxa and af-maay spilt ) and the TMRCAs will go down with more samples.
Araz 11/19/2021 12:49:00 PM

Does anyone know how the Somali YFull group works? I've joined but can't see anything other than a few email addresses.
Garaacad 11/19/2021 6:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

Does anyone know how the Somali YFull group works? I've joined but can't see anything other than a few email addresses.

What’s your haplogroup btw.
NetNomad 11/19/2021 6:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

Does anyone know how the Somali YFull group works? I've joined but can't see anything other than a few email addresses.

You can compare STRs here:

https://yfull.com/groups/somali/cstr/

and check SNP results of co-members here:

https://yfull.com/groups/somali/snp/
farjanomar 11/20/2021 7:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@Farjanomar I don’t have enough posts to PM you. I would just like to know the relationship of Majeerteens and Samaales

We are long way off, knowing how each and every Clan genetics are related. Because we don't have enough big Y samples

to compare. Maybe 5-15 years or when the price comes down to $100-150.

Last edited by farjanomar; 11-20-2021 at 12:05 AM.
Muhammadk 11/20/2021 10:25:00 AM

"Originally Posted by ArazASC brothers, I just joined this group today and read the posts with a lot of interest. I am new to this stuff but fascinated by the findings and happy to learn more from you. I got my BigY recently and waiting for my yfull analysis to be completed. I am E-Y196848 (from E-BY8085 - E-Y18637). There are two other E-Y196848 (father and son) all of us Majertein Cismaan Maxamud. We are also related on 23andme - I am second cousin twice removed with his father. I am noticing how the few MJ Cismaan Maxamud don't seem to have the same recent paternal lineage and the results seem all over the place. For example, before BigY I clustered with an Omar Maxamud guy but after BigY and a new guy joining in we have formed our own group with his father. The Omar Maxamud guy is now clustered with another Cisman Maxamud. I can't figure this out! What do you think? I noticed you've been mentioning a Libyan guy who must be Somali (E-BY8085). He comes up as my relative at 67 markers as does a Jordanian guy (E-BY7964), a Saudi (E-M35) and a Sudanese (E-M35).Asc brother, a guy on somalispot named lipax something said u r ismacil maxamed. Is it true???"
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/21/2021 12:40:00 AM

We can see a new Ogaden reer Cabdile reer warfaa brother on YFULL live forming a sub clade with Ugaadlabe Sanaag sample here https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT420077/
NetNomad 11/21/2021 12:40:00 AM

Some people are claiming that most of the Darods with J1 are in fact of Gabooye origin because a non-Darod claiming Gabooye from Ethiopia was found to belong to J1 on 23andMe (so far he hasn't done a Big Y type of test) and this Majeerteen claiming subclan Ciise Adde has a history of iron working yet they don't consider themselves to be Gabooye and claim to be Darod abtiris-wise.

It would be supremely ironic if the supposed ''low caste'' among Northern Somalis have in fact Arab origins. Of course more data is needed before this can be confirmed.
NetNomad 11/21/2021 12:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We can see a new Ogaden reer Cabdile reer warfaa brother on YFULL live forming a sub clade with Ugaadlabe Sanaag sample here https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT420077/

TMRCA not live yet, but I think it will be between 1,500 and 1,200 years YPB because the SNP number isn't high.
NetNomad 11/21/2021 1:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Some people are claiming that most of the Darods with J1 are in fact of Gabooye origin because a non-Darod claiming Gabooye from Ethiopia was found to belong to J1 on 23andMe (so far he hasn't done a Big Y type of test) and this Majeerteen claiming subclan Ciise Adde has a history of iron working yet they don't consider themselves to be Gabooye and claim to be Darod abtiris-wise.

It would be supremely ironic if the supposed ''low caste'' among Northern Somalis have in fact Arab origins. Of course more data is needed before this can be confirmed.

Relevant quote:

''Any man who commonly engages in occupations other than herding or farming is generally a ‘pariah’. Moreover every caste, regardless of its particular metier, is accorded similar treatment” (H.S. Lewis 1962). H.S Lewis’ analytical proposal was that of studying the subordination of occupational specialists as a “structural theme” of the societies of the Horn. H.S. Lewis believed that considering the “castes” as “remnant groups” could not be sustained on linguistic, physical or any other kind of evidence. Their numbers were usually extremely small inside the hosting societies but “their distribution is so even among all the Cushitic groups that another explanation must be sought” (H.S. Lewis 1962). Furthermore, they are found in a huge variety of economic and political systems, such as among sedentary farmers and nomadic pastoralists, under both complex and centralised monarchies and dispersed political institutions (like in the Somali case). We are thus dealing with a “structural” element of the region which, according to H.S. Lewis, had to be analysed in parallel with “the history and the distribution of occupational castes elsewhere in Africa and in Asia” (H.S. Lewis 1962).''

So these types of caste-like clans are not necessarily related paternally.
Araz 11/22/2021 7:05:00 AM

ASC Muhammadk - that is correct
Garaacad 11/23/2021 4:03:00 AM

What’s the case with Habar Awals ? Is there some sort of a spilt in the paternal line. There was T in a lineage of Habar Awal that was considered to all be E-V32.
NetNomad 11/24/2021 12:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What’s the case with Habar Awals ? Is there some sort of a spilt in the paternal line. There was T in a lineage of Habar Awal that was considered to all be E-V32.

It depends on the sub-sub-clans. Most are E-BY155996, but some exist with T-BY181210, but this is not surprising since they live with many T-BY181210 clans nearby.
Omaar 11/24/2021 10:44:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

We are going to have a new Major 4th SNP of E-Y18629 in next few months. I am in contact with owner of kit # MK70058

in group 1.4. He has upgraded to big Y. Also 1-2 other People in the group said, they will upgrade, when the holiday

discount becomes available.

Kit # MK70058 is probably E-V6163.
NetNomad 11/24/2021 11:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Kit # MK70058 is probably E-V6163.

STRs have been misleading before. People in the Somali project were grouped in the wrong cluster based on STRs, then Big Y showed different sub-group affinity.

Weirdly, DYS388=13 is a reliable indicator for E-Y163949, but even that could be shown to be incorrect with more data.
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Garaacad 11/29/2021 12:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

TMRCA not live yet, but I think it will be between 1,500 and 1,200 years YPB because the SNP number isn't high.

Don’t those 2 Darood outliers match with a Madhibaan subclan on Familytreedna. The Madhibaan claim to descendants of Maxamed Gorgaate the grandson of Hawiye (searched it up). Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the TMCRA is 1,200-1500 YPB wouldn’t that make Majeerteens more closely related to Hawiyes.
Somaliguy 11/30/2021 2:25:00 AM

The two samples under E-FT420077 are not Majeerteen and don't match with a Madhibaan subclade on FamilyTreeDNA. The TMRCA of 1200 means that the Majerteen share a common ancestor 1200 years ago. Anyway, we need more samples to make better inferences.
Garaacad 11/30/2021 4:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Somaliguy

The two samples under E-FT420077 are not Majeerteen and don't match with a Madhibaan subclade on FamilyTreeDNA. The TMRCA of 1200 means that the Majerteen share a common ancestor 1200 years ago. Anyway, we need more samples to make better inferences.

I know those 2 samples aren’t Majeerteen I think 1 is a subclan of Warsangeli and the other is an Ogaden subclan. Muuse Dhariye is a sub clan of Madhibaan they match each other in the Somali group on FamilyTreeDNA.
NetNomad 12/1/2021 1:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I know those 2 samples aren’t Majeerteen I think 1 is a subclan of Warsangeli and the other is an Ogaden subclan. Muuse Dhariye is a sub clan of Madhibaan they match each other in the Somali group on FamilyTreeDNA.

Check the live tree,

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y18629/

They (E-FT420077) don't share a recent SNP with the Dhariye (YF92955).
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/2/2021 8:04:00 AM

We have two new Somali samples today on EV32, so what's their sub clans?
NetNomad 12/2/2021 8:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have two new Somali samples today on EV32, so what's their sub clans?

Looks like new Bah Gari samples? That clan really has many different sub-clades. But for the new E-BY192465 sample I am not sure.
Garaacad 12/4/2021 9:46:00 PM

The new E-BY192465 sample has formed a new subclade with the Banaadir sample on the live tree.
drobbah 12/4/2021 10:38:00 PM

E-Y18629 will probably end being a lot older now
Omaar 12/5/2021 1:24:00 AM

There is another person, who have not yet uploaded his results to Yfull. He is on FTDNA. We all three are FT77328+ but I and the new guy, who is on Yfull, have 4 additional SNPs. If that person who is on FTDNA upload his results to Yfull then me and the new guy will have a new subclade.
Garaacad 12/5/2021 1:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

There is another person, who have not yet uploaded his results to Yfull. He is on FTDNA. We all three are FT77328+ but I and the new guy, who is on Yfull, have 4 additional SNPs. If that person who is on FTDNA upload his results to Yfull then me and the new guy will have a new subclade.

What is his clan and the one already on YFull I’m guessing both are Hawiye.
NetNomad 12/5/2021 5:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What is his clan and the one already on YFull I’m guessing both are Hawiye.

I hope more Hawiyes do these tests.

We know enough about Darod and Isaaq by now.

Hawiye is under-researched. I am especially interested in Habar Gidir results.
NetNomad 12/5/2021 5:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-Y18629 will probably end being a lot older now

Not sure of that, click on the info tab of E-Y18629

Most of the samples are in the 2000s range. It will likely remain in the 2Ks for the foreseeable future. Earlier on when there were fewer samples we had bigger swings, but of course I could be wrong, my two cents.
Garaacad 12/5/2021 6:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I hope more Hawiyes do these tests.

We know enough about Darod and Isaaq by now.

Hawiye is under-researched. I am especially interested in Habar Gidir results.

So the samples under the new subclade are Hawiye ? If so what are their subclans I don’t have access to Somali group on FamilyTreeDNA I just saw a screenshot on the Somalispot.com forum.
NetNomad 12/5/2021 7:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

So the samples under the new subclade are Hawiye ? If so what are their subclans I don’t have access to Somali group on FamilyTreeDNA I just saw a screenshot on the Somalispot.com forum.

Ask Omaar over DM. Some people also don't like stating their clans publicly.
drobbah 12/6/2021 9:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What’s the case with Habar Awals ? Is there some sort of a spilt in the paternal line. There was T in a lineage of Habar Awal that was considered to all be E-V32.

The Habar Awal are mostly E-BY75676 which is around 8-900 years old, my current subclade is downstream of that and is shared with another Jibriil Abokor with a possible tmrca likely to be around 300 ybp if he decided to upload on yfull.It seems there is a very small minority T-M70+ jilibs scattered the Habar Awal but they probably represent later assimilations.It is very apparent that the vast majority of Habar Awal share a medieval ancestor. Upstream of BY75676 at E-BY155996, there is a Southern Ashraaf but we probably didn't share an ancestor with him for atleast 2k-2700 years
Omaar 12/7/2021 12:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Ask Omaar over DM. Some people also don't like stating their clans publicly.

I really don't know their clans. Maybe they are waiting the right time to tell.
NetNomad 12/7/2021 8:48:00 PM

Speculative, but it looks like the Marehan mainly have two lineages.

E-Y163949 and E-Y161124.

E-Y163949 is connected to Northeast Somalis and matches their oral history.

E-Y161124 is connected to Oromos and it is safe to assume this lineage entered the Marehan via pre-Darod Gedo locals (Southwest Somalia). I have read material claiming Oromos used to live in Jubbaland?
farjanomar 12/10/2021 8:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Kit # MK70058 is probably E-V6163.

You guessed it right bro. The results came in today, and he is indeed E-V6163. There is another person awaiting his big Y results in that group, Kit# 955730. This group looks more and more like they are positive for E-Z21175.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/14/2021 7:31:00 AM

We have a interesting Luwey Geledi results. He seems to have a totally different STR'S compared to the other Dir sample's, perhaps he caries an Ethiopian T subclade or perhaps an ancient proto Dir lineage.
Zxcvbn 12/17/2021 8:54:00 PM

How can I see somali YDNA results on FTDNA?
NetNomad 12/18/2021 7:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Zxcvbn

How can I see somali YDNA results on FTDNA?

You need to join the project.

If you haven't done a Y-37 test, you can also join through uploading a 23andMe file to FTDNA (this gives you access to FT projects).

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/somali/
NetNomad 12/29/2021 12:15:00 AM

TMRCA of just 850 years for this group:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y204806/

Looks like that Saudi and Amhara Ethiopian are Southwest Somali paternally? Or it is a recently spread Oromo lineage?

Leaning towards the second option.
drobbah 12/29/2021 12:20:00 AM

It’s more likely an Oromo lineage which would explain why upstream there’s a Kenyan Borana and a new Garre sample.I think this lineage was responsible for the medieval pastoralist expansion of the Oromos and the Saudi individual is probably a descendant of an Oromo/Southern Ethiopian male slave
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/29/2021 6:56:00 AM

Is that Garre sample the one that formed close sub clade with Saudi and Ethiopian?

The Saudi guy might be an ancient Somali/Oromo individual that went on pilgrimage to Meca and never came back. Maybe that explains so many gulf samples of Horn of African origin.
drobbah 12/29/2021 9:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Is that Garre sample the one that formed close sub clade with Saudi and Ethiopian?

No that's the Marexaan E-V6163 sample and actually if you check the live tree, he is actually upstream from the Amhara & Saudi.The other new sample is the Garre re-uploading his sample and will form a new subclade (E-BY64848) with the Kenyan Borana

The Saudi guy might be an ancient Somali/Oromo individual that went on pilgrimage to Meca and never came back. Maybe that explains so many gulf samples of Horn of African origin.

He's more likely a descendant of an Oromo or descends from an Ethiopian ethnic group that assimilated Oromos.Arabians with Horner haplogroups tend more then likely descend from slaves shipped during the Indian Ocean Slave trade.

As for the Arabs with Somali haplogroups, they probably descend from Muslim Scholars,merchants or Pilgrims but they are not many.We have one Libyan from an Ashraaf tribe in Sirte,Saudis from the Hijazi Badawi Bedouin clan and another group from the Al Hubaish Najdi tribe.There's also a Red Sea coast Sudani that shares similar strs with these Hijazi Badawis who are also on yfull.There's also a Yemeni sample that probably belongs to the Darood clan and a Saudi from a clan that lives in 'Asir (on Saudi-Yemeni border) is a likely a fellow Sacad Muuse based on his strs lol and we were the clan that dominated the coastal Berbera trade.
NetNomad 12/29/2021 3:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

No that's the Marexaan E-V6163 sample and actually if you check the live tree, he is actually upstream from the Amhara & Saudi.The other new sample is the Garre re-uploading his sample and will form a new subclade (E-BY64848) with the Kenyan Borana

He's more likely a descendant of an Oromo or descends from an Ethiopian ethnic group that assimilated Oromos.Arabians with Horner haplogroups tend more then likely descend from slaves shipped during the Indian Ocean Slave trade.

As for the Arabs with Somali haplogroups, they probably descend from Muslim Scholars,merchants or Pilgrims but they are not many.We have one Libyan from an Ashraaf tribe in Sirte,Saudis from the Hijazi Badawi Bedouin clan and another group from the Al Hubaish Najdi tribe.There's also a Red Sea coast Sudani that shares similar strs with these Hijazi Badawis who are also on yfull.There's also a Yemeni sample that probably belongs to the Darood clan and a Saudi from a clan that lives in 'Asir (on Saudi-Yemeni border) is a likely a fellow Sacad Muuse based on his strs lol and we were the clan that dominated the coastal Berbera trade.

Mostly agree with you here, but you can never be too sure of this. Perhaps that Saudi guy if he reads this can comment on his family history and give us some extra info.
farjanomar 12/30/2021 1:59:00 AM

My hypothesis is, since we already know the following that:

A-Z813 is the majority East Cushitic ancestor.

B-E-Y17859 is the majority Somali ancestor, and. E-16829 being 100% Somali.

C-E-Z21175 being majoriy Oromo East Cushitic ancestor.

About 500 BC Somali Ethnicity/Tribe was already established as E-Y16829.

So imo All Somalis carrying E-Z21175 are assimilated post Oromo Expantion, post Ahmed Gurey, and post Ajuuran.

The same applies to the Ethiopian Ethnicities carrying Somali Y- DNA Lineages.
drobbah 12/30/2021 3:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Mostly agree with you here, but you can never be too sure of this. Perhaps that Saudi guy if he reads this can comment on his family history and give us some extra info.

He's from Khobar,Eastern Saudi Arabia but you are right hopefully he provides more info and I wonder if his family knew of their Horner origins.

Originally Posted by farjanomar

My hypothesis is, since we already know the following that:

A-Z813 is the majority East Cushitic ancestor.

B-E-Y17859 is the majority Somali ancestor, and. E-Y16829 being 100% Somali.

C-E-Z21175 being majoriy Oromo East Cushitic ancestor.

About 500 BC Somali Ethnicity/Tribe was already established as E-Y16829.

The other branch of E-Y17859 is carried by an Egyptian who is E-BY8075* and two downstream Saudis from a Northern Hijazi bedouin clan.We probably split off from them outside the Horn (somewhere in the Eastern Deserts of Egypt/Sudan?) before our ancestors arrived in the Horn which might mean our ancestors were one of the late waves of Pastoralists entering the Horn. This would make sense since our TMRCA with the basal Egyptian E-Y17859* is 3600 ybp.Are our ancestors language shifters who due to a founder effect became successful among an East Cushitic speaking group? Who knows lol

E-Z813 has been in the Horn for some time as there is apparently one E-Z813 Kenyan Pastoralist but imo he probably didn't belong to our branch but rather the E-Z21175 group (which includes the Oromos,the very upstream Sanaag sample and Kenyan Luos).I could be very wrong tho..

So imo All Somalis carrying E-Z21175 are assimilated post Oromo Expantion, post Ahmed Gurey, and post Ajuuran.

The same applies to the Ethiopian Ethnicities carrying Somali Y- DNA Lineages.

Not true as Somalis could have easily had E-Z21175 (like that Sanaag sample) and perhaps were once dominated by it alongside other lineages such as E-V22 found in Arap-Isaaq,E-V16 found in Sanbuur Isaaq perhaps some A-M13 lineage and even E-V6 but extreme founder effects from young lineages such as E-Y18629 & T-BY181210 have diminished Af-Maxaa y-dna diversity.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/30/2021 4:56:00 AM

We probibally lived around Eritrea, all the way to Egypt. That might also explain our nomadic culture.
drobbah 12/30/2021 7:34:00 AM

The new sample that is E-Y18637* without the Somali flag is actually a Kuwaiti.Which adds another MENA individual to our long lost Somali list.What is interesting this time is that based on his strs he is similar not only to the Muse Dhariye clan but also to the Habar Jeclo sample.The HJ sample seems to be even more closely related to these Muse Dhariye based on strs, this clan claims to descend from Madoobe Dir Irir Samaale.Perhaps the mythical Samaale, progenitor of the Somalis was a real guy (E-Y18637) after all
NetNomad 1/2/2022 12:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The new sample that is E-Y18637* without the Somali flag is actually a Kuwaiti.Which adds another MENA individual to our long lost Somali list.What is interesting this time is that based on his strs he is similar not only to the Muse Dhariye clan but also to the Habar Jeclo sample.The HJ sample seems to be even more closely related to these Muse Dhariye based on strs, this clan claims to descend from Madoobe Dir Irir Samaale.Perhaps the mythical Samaale, progenitor of the Somalis was a real guy (E-Y18637) after all

Somalis seem to have definitely had a strong ancient abtiris culture judging by why only two main lineages are dominant in Somalis. We mustn't completely dismiss the Samaale story as total fiction.
drobbah 1/4/2022 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Somalis seem to have definitely had a strong ancient abtiris culture judging by why only two main lineages are dominant in Somalis. We mustn't completely dismiss the Samaale story as total fiction.

It is quite strange that E-Y18629,E-Y18637, & E-BY192465 all have similar tmrcas hopefully with these new uploaded samples yfull's tmrcas becomes more realistic
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/4/2022 7:45:00 AM

We have two new samples oploaded on E-Y163949, so please who are they?
farjanomar 1/4/2022 12:42:00 PM

I have come across a E-V32 Dir on my 23andme list. Thought would be interesting to ask him, which sub-clan-He said Akisho.

was not surprised because of the oral history. (most likely E-Z21175)
drobbah 1/4/2022 7:51:00 PM

I recently emailed the Saudi account from Bariq,’Asir that was very similar to us Sacad Muuse in Arabic and surprisingly the brother replied! Apparently it’s not his sample but his Somali brother-in law who was born and raised in Riyadh.The individual belongs to the Reer Gadiid subclan which is a subclan of the infamous mercantile Nuux Ismaciil clan that dominated Berbera for centuries before migrating to Hargeisa with Sheikh Madar
farjanomar 1/9/2022 3:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I recently emailed the Saudi account from Bariq,’Asir that was very similar to us Sacad Muuse in Arabic and surprisingly the brother replied! Apparently it’s not his sample but his Somali brother-in law who was born and raised in Riyadh.The individual belongs to the Reer Gadiid subclan which is a subclan of the infamous mercantile Nuux Ismaciil clan that dominated Berbera for centuries before migrating to Hargeisa with Sheikh Madar

Good to know that Some of them are actually recently Somali. There is a chance the Kuwaiti sample could also be Born/Naturalized Somali Khaliiji.

I think from now on we should take a 50-50 probability (ancient VS recently) of all those with Yemeni/khaliji flags. In my group (E-Y163928/163949) i have seen two samples with Yemeni flags without any other information.
farjanomar 1/9/2022 3:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The new sample that is E-Y18637* without the Somali flag is actually a Kuwaiti.Which adds another MENA individual to our long lost Somali list.What is interesting this time is that based on his strs he is similar not only to the Muse Dhariye clan but also to the Habar Jeclo sample.The HJ sample seems to be even more closely related to these Muse Dhariye based on strs, this clan claims to descend from Madoobe Dir Irir Samaale.Perhaps the mythical Samaale, progenitor of the Somalis was a real guy (E-Y18637) after all

They have now been given their own sub-clade, E-FTB35550.

So far E-Y18637 has five sub-clades:

#1-E-FTB35550.

#2-E-BY8081.

#3-E-BY192465.

#4-E-BY8100.

#5-E-FT420077.
eli 1/9/2022 10:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I have come across a E-V32 Dir on my 23andme list. Thought would be interesting to ask him, which sub-clan-He said Akisho.

was not surprised because of the oral history. (most likely E-Z21175)

Unlike Daarod, most of the Dir samples on 23andme or YFull are not representative of the clan as a whole due to the fact that several subclans do not have a large diaspora presence. He is not the only E-V32 'Dir,' there are Biimaal E-V32 Dirs, a Gurgura E-V32 Dir, and I also came across a Noole Afran Qallo E-V32 who is ancestrally Dir. It was also interesting to note that some of his other Afran Qallo matches had diverse haplogroups, Jaarso (E-L29); Noole (T-L208). Not surprising considering the heterogenous ancestry of the Hararghe Oromos. In my opinion, it is folly to assume that the Dir clan can only be associated with T-Y16897.

Moreover, much like how the Daraod clan tree is all over the place from an E-V32 perspective, so is the T-Y16897 Dir clan individuals as things stand. You asked a perfectly logical question as to why the Surre TMRCA is so short in the Y16897 thread. Apologies I didn't answer previously. It shouldn't be that short if we go by Abtirsi as the two samples only connect higher up the clan tree according to clan lore. There is every possibility that other Surre samples uploaded might throw further doubt on the clan tree, for instance, if a Qubeys sample is closer to an Abdalla sample than another Qubeys. Also, according to Dir clan lore, Surre are ancestrally closer to Isaaq than Samaron are to the Isaaq, but YFull results contradict this demonstrating how science contradicts clan ancestral myths. The same also applies to Daarod as it would be illogical to argue that one subclade lineage is the authentic Daarod lineage when individuals from the same subclan, Kablalax etc. are present in two disparate subclades that do not connect for almost 3000 years.
eli 1/9/2022 10:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Somalis seem to have definitely had a strong ancient abtiris culture judging by why only two main lineages are dominant in Somalis. We mustn't completely dismiss the Samaale story as total fiction.

Much like other Somali macro clan identities, I doubt there is any absolute scientific truth to a Samaale clan patriarch. It is a foundation myth like Romulus and Remus. Speaking as a Samaale, it is something which has been intrinsically part of my ethnic identity, not that different to your own respective macro clan identity.
Garaacad 1/9/2022 11:43:00 PM

Most clan identities probably started off real and then became confederacies as they grew in size over time.

Btw any updates on the clan of id:YF94679 ?
Garaacad 1/9/2022 11:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by eli

Much like other Somali macro clan identities, I doubt there is any absolute scientific truth to a Samaale clan patriarch. It is a foundation myth like Romulus and Remus. Speaking as a Samaale, it is something which has been intrinsically part of my ethnic identity, not that different to your own respective macro clan identity.

Nah, I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say E-Y18637 was Samaale.
eli 1/10/2022 12:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Nah, I think it’s a pretty safe bet to say E-Y18637 was Samaale.

Unless Samaale lived close to 3k years ago, I doubt it as the lineage isn't that ancient from an Abtirsi perspective. Also, we do not have enough representative YFull samples from non Irir Samaale clans. Even then, I doubt the results will reflect the clan tree as is the case already with other older Somali clan identities.

Sub sub subclans might have possibly started off as real but I cannot see macro clans being the product of a relatively recent founder effect as the few results we currently possess are anomalous.
Garaacad 1/10/2022 12:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

Unless Samaale lived close to 3k years ago, I doubt it as the lineage isn't that ancient from an Abtirsi perspective. Also, we do not have enough representative YFull samples from non Irir Samaale clans. Even then, I doubt the results will reflect the clan tree as is the case already with other older Somali clan identities.

Sub sub subclans might have possibly started off as real but I cannot see macro clans being the product of a relatively recent founder effect as the few results we currently possess are anomalous.

Interesting, how old is Samaale meant to be in terms of abtirsi?
drobbah 1/10/2022 3:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

Unless Samaale lived close to 3k years ago, I doubt it as the lineage isn't that ancient from an Abtirsi perspective. Also, we do not have enough representative YFull samples from non Irir Samaale clans. Even then, I doubt the results will reflect the clan tree as is the case already with other older Somali clan identities.

Sub sub subclans might have possibly started off as real but I cannot see macro clans being the product of a relatively recent founder effect as the few results we currently possess are anomalous.

Well the current tmrca is 2600 ybp but it could be anywhere between 3100 to 2100 ybp and tbh imo E-Y18637 tmrca is probably on the lower side of the range since the upstream E-Y18629 also currently has a tmrca of 2600 ybp.This makes it possible that this was the mythical Samaale.Abtirsi isn't always accurate as perhaps some names in the lineage had been forogtten or omitted on purpose, for example Sacad Muuse and Ciise Muuse according to yfull has a tmrca of 900 ybp but according to abtirsi we should have a tmrca of 600 ybp although if we take yfull's tmrca range of 1550 to 500 ybp in consideration the abtirsi isn't exactly wrong
farjanomar 1/10/2022 4:30:00 AM

@eli.

Firstly: I am not one of those, who argue person/persons who carry Non majority Clan SNP/HG are not part of the Clan/Sub-Clan identity.

But, there is nothing wrong in discussing and acknowledging, some of the clan might carry minor Clan SNP/HG or are outlier, after all its

genetic identity not the Cultural/National identity of macro/micro clans.

Secondly: I mentioned the Akisho guy for a reason, if i saw other Dirs like Surre, Ciise, Gadaburse, biyamaal E-V32 i would have not mentioned.

Do you agree that Akisho, Jaarso Gurgura Garre and others are dual identity Clans?
eli 1/10/2022 5:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@eli.

Firstly: I am not one of those, who argue person/persons who carry Non majority Clan SNP/HG are not part of the Clan/Sub-Clan identity.

But, there is nothing wrong in discussing and acknowledging, some of the clan might carry minor Clan SNP/HG or are outlier, after all its

genetic identity not the Cultural/National identity of macro/micro clans.

Secondly: I mentioned the Akisho guy for a reason, if i saw other Dirs like Surre, Ciise, Gadaburse, biyamaal E-V32 i would have not mentioned.

Do you agree that Akisho, Jaarso Gurgura Garre and others are dual identity Clans?

Jaarso are not a Somali clan, they are a Oromo-Somali confederation clan. This is demonstrated by the fact you have Dir and Daarod subclans such as Balcad (Daarod), Osman (Dir) and Umar (Dir) whilst also possessing subclans with clearly Oromo roots.

Akisho, are also a confederacy of sorts. They have certain sub subclans which are clearly Somali, however, their immediate subclans are unequivocally Oromo.

The Gurgura are legit Somalis. They are bilingual but were not assimilated into the Afran Qallo confederacy who they neighbour and have retained their traditional Ugaas Xeer and separate clan identity.

The Garre are also legit Somalis. They came under the dominance of Boranas in NFD/K5 but their History is known, so is their Samaale abtirsi.

As for you mentioning Akisho, I get that. However, what I found lacking was the assumption that they would necessarily harbour the subclade you referenced. The Dhulbahante Hayag who does not neighbour Oromos at all has a subclade not common among other Somalis on YFull. You have a Warsangeli with E-M183, this individual's clan also does not neighbour South Cushite admixed Oromos etc. It is a known fact that the Afran Qallo are a confederation of Oromo, Somali. Harla etc. It can therefore be surmised that their YFull results might not necessarily be a reflection of a hypothesised split between Somali and Oromo E-V32 considering the history of assimilation in the Hararghe region after the Oromo expansion. Agree or disagree?

Going back to your first point, do you think your subclade will be the main genetic marker for the Harti clan? If more diverse Harti clans test positive for this within the past millennium, do you think an argument can be made that it is the marker of the clan?
eli 1/10/2022 5:20:00 AM

@Garaacad

The Abtirsi I have encountered range from the mid-20's to 40.

@Drobbah

I have taken the disparity in Abtirsis into account. None point towards an ancestor that lived close to 2000 years ago. You do the math, how many generations go back 2000 years?
farjanomar 1/10/2022 6:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

Jaarso are not a Somali clan, they are a Oromo-Somali confederation clan. This is demonstrated by the fact you have Dir and Daarod subclans such as Balcad (Daarod), Osman (Dir) and Umar (Dir) whilst also possessing subclans with clearly Oromo roots.

Akisho, are also a confederacy of sorts. They have certain sub subclans which are clearly Somali, however, their immediate subclans are unequivocally Oromo.

The Gurgura are legit Somalis. They are bilingual but were not assimilated into the Afran Qallo confederacy who they neighbour and have retained their traditional Ugaas Xeer and separate clan identity.

The Garre are also legit Somalis. They came under the dominance of Boranas in NFD/K5 but their History is known, so is their Samaale abtirsi.

Going back to your first point, do you think your subclade will be the main genetic marker for the Harti clan? If more diverse Harti clans test positive for this within the past millennium, do you think an argument can be made that it is the marker of the clan?

I think imo Harti will be more or less like Isaaq being super Majority under 2 SNPs for Harti (E-Y163949 and E-BY8081)

and Isaaq (T-FGC92488 and E-BY155996).

E-BY8081 is huge because Saleebaan MJs are more like half of all MJs and so therefore more like a quarter Harti.

Plus half of MJs sub-clans have not big Y tested, we don't know yet which of the two SNPs they got.
eli 1/10/2022 6:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think imo Harti will be more or less like Isaaq being super Majority under 2 SNPs for Harti (E-Y163949 and E-BY8081)

and Isaaq (T-FGC92488 and E-BY155996).

E-BY8081 is huge because Saleebaan MJs are more like half of all MJs and so therefore more like a quarter Harti.

Plus half of MJs sub-clans have not big Y tested, we don't know yet which of the two SNPs they got.

A correction to my previous reply to you bro.

The Warsangeli was E-M293, not the Berber E-M183. Sorry for the mistake.
drobbah 1/10/2022 10:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

@Garaacad

The Abtirsi I have encountered range from the mid-20's to 40.

@Drobbah

I have taken the disparity in Abtirsis into account. None point towards an ancestor that lived close to 2000 years ago. You do the math, how many generations go back 2000 years?

We'll just wait and see when the tmrca gets updated with these new samples cause I think E-Y18629>E-Y18637>E-BY192465 having the exact tmrca and for the latter two having the exact same forming date and tmrca just seems fishy.I think E-Y18637 or important downstream E-BY192465 will end up being the Samaale marker.

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think imo Harti will be more or less like Isaaq being super Majority under 2 SNPs for Harti (E-Y163949 and E-BY8081)

and Isaaq (T-FGC92488 and E-BY155996).

Only Habar Awal is E-BY155996+ (HA marker is downstream E-BY75676) shared with the Ashraaf individual.As I stated earlier based on strs the HJ E-V32 sample and comparing the Kuwaiti/Muse Dhariye, I realized is that he will likely be E-Y18637+ and not E-BY155996+.Isaaq might end being more diverse in our E-Z813 lineages. Perhaps the Garxajis E-V32 will end up in a completely different branch from the E-BY75676 Habar Awal and possibly E-18637+ Habar Jeclo.But you are correct that by the sheer size of the Habar Awal compared to the rest of our Isaaq kinsmen our lineage is the dominant E-V32 variant in the Isaaq clan.
Garaacad 1/10/2022 2:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think imo Harti will be more or less like Isaaq being super Majority under 2 SNPs for Harti (E-Y163949 and E-BY8081)

and Isaaq (T-FGC92488 and E-BY155996).

E-BY8081 is huge because Saleebaan MJs are more like half of all MJs and so therefore more like a quarter Harti.

Plus half of MJs sub-clans have not big Y tested, we don't know yet which of the two SNPs they got.

Generally the further back in history a subclan split off, the higher the chance of Y-Chromosome sub-clade discrepancy. Wabeeneeye branch off straight from Maxamed Harti, but all other MJs don’t and come from Aawe. IMO, Wabeeneeye results aren’t representative of non-Saleebaan Majeerteen subclans.
Araz 1/11/2022 1:19:00 PM

@Garacaad where do the Wabeneeye currently sit? Under 18637 or completely separate? I am making a big assumption here that most MJ will fall under 18637? I recently recruited a Wabeneeye friend but he is only doing the y37, hopefully he will move to the BigY eventually.
Garaacad 1/11/2022 6:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

@Garacaad where do the Wabeneeye currently sit? Under 18637 or completely separate? I am making a big assumption here that most MJ will fall under 18637? I recently recruited a Wabeneeye friend but he is only doing the y37, hopefully he will move to the BigY eventually.

They fall under E-Y163949 right now, but that could change with more samples. IMO, if the Siwaaqroon are confirmed to be E-BY8081 under E-Y18637 then most older Majeerteen subclans will probably E-BY8081. Siwaaqroon will probably be E-BY8081 or some unique other subclade under E-Y18637*.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/11/2022 8:35:00 PM

We will find out. You guys should test Siwaqroon.
Garaacad 1/11/2022 10:48:00 PM

Personally I’m pretty sure Siwaaqroon will be E-BY8081 because they aren’t very far from us abtiris wise.
Araz 1/12/2022 8:52:00 AM

One thing I've learnt from this DNA journey is that abtiris isn't always accurate! But I suspect you are right about the closer linked groups like Siwaaqron. It would be great if we could test this.
blackflash16 1/15/2022 7:10:00 AM

My Nebula 30x genome kit is finally analyzed and available. I connected my account to Y-Full and it gave me a preliminary assignment of E-Y17859 > E-Y18629 > E-Y163928 > E-Y163949 > E-FT18668
farjanomar 1/15/2022 8:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by blackflash16

My Nebula 30x genome kit is finally analyzed and available. I connected my account to Y-Full and it gave me a preliminary assignment of E-Y17859 > E-Y18629 > E-Y163928 > E-Y163949 > E-FT18668

How long did take you walaal? This Company is the cheapest in the market right now, and i recommend to Somalida on different platforms.
blackflash16 1/15/2022 9:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

How long did take you walaal? This Company is the cheapest in the market right now, and i recommend to Somalida on different platforms.

I sent my kit in early October. so just under 3.5 months, but this was probably during their busier season so maybe it'll be quicker now.
Somaliguy 1/15/2022 5:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by blackflash16

I sent my kit in early October. so just under 3.5 months, but this was probably during their busier season so maybe it'll be quicker now.

How is the process to upload to yfull, is it simple?
blackflash16 1/16/2022 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Somaliguy

How is the process to upload to yfull, is it simple?

Extremely simple, it's just a simple button press under the "Deep Ancestry" page in the Nebula reporting portal and it automatically creates a yfull account for you and uploads your raw data. After that, it's just a ~1-hour wait for the email with your yfull credentials to be sent to you.
NetNomad 1/16/2022 10:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

IMO, if the Siwaaqroon are confirmed to be E-BY8081 under E-Y18637 then most older Majeerteen subclans will probably E-BY8081. Siwaaqroon will probably be E-BY8081 or some unique other subclade under E-Y18637*.

There now is one Dhulbahante who is E-Y163949 positive, but negative on all the E-FT18668 lineages, so basically on the same level as the Marehan and Warsangeli testers. Maybe something like this or having E-BY8081* can happen with unsequenced old Majeerteen subclans.
farjanomar 1/17/2022 6:36:00 AM

ooh maay....The Second Warsangali sample has now upgraded from Y37 to Y111, and very likely closely related. with a

difference of 2 (111/109) with the other Warsangali. @Netnomad @Drobbah is this like 5-7 generations?
drobbah 1/17/2022 6:52:00 AM

I have two fellow Sacad Muuse who have tested their 111 str markers.The fellow Jibriil Abokor who carries E-FT385910 (tmrca 300 ybp) is a genetic distance of 8 while a Hussein Abokor who has his 111 str markers also has a genetic distance of 8 with me.Those Warsengalis all probably belong to a specific jilib and are probably recently related in the last 150 years imo
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/17/2022 5:27:00 PM

So I should have a TMRC of 300 ypd with reer Diini, as it was 8 generations ago. There is a good chance that the new Dhulbahante will form a subclade with me as my family have told me that my 5th great grandfather and his brothers were the once that established Caynabo town and one of his horse was maned after that town. So there is that possibility. However there is no chance I will be Dhulbahante as ugaas Diini was bah Dhulbahante, and he was ugaas Marehan so clearly he was a Marehan.
NetNomad 1/17/2022 6:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

So I should have a TMRC of 300 ypd with reer Diini, as it was 8 generations ago. There is a good chance that the new Dhulbahante will form a subclade with me as my family have told me that my 5th great grandfather and his brothers were the once that established Caynabo town and one of his horse was maned after that town. So there is that possibility. However there is no chance I will be Dhulbahante as ugaas Diini was bah Dhulbahante, and he was ugaas Marehan so clearly he was a Marehan.

I don't think so. Most likely the SNP similarity you have with him will be the same as id:YF63268, but we shall see.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/19/2022 1:47:00 AM

One of the new Dhulbahante samples formed a subclade just further up from the rest of Dhulbahante, it makes sense.
farjanomar 1/19/2022 3:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

One of the new Dhulbahante samples formed a subclade just further up from the rest of Dhulbahante, it makes sense.

Its now 3 of them, in the live page. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT21265/

1 sample remains under E-FT18668
farjanomar 1/19/2022 6:39:00 AM

Finally, we will start getting non-Hartis big Y. Jidwaaq/Abaskuul member of Somali Project has upgraded from Y67 to Y700. Nur Mujahid first Marehan and now first Jidwaaq.
NetNomad 1/20/2022 8:42:00 PM

I asked YFull why they have British sub-national flags (like Scotland, Wales etc), but don't have sub-national flags for most of the rest of the world?

The response was that they go by ISO 3166 which has UK constituent countries listed.

Posting this info in this thread as newcomers may wonder about this or those who want the Somaliland or Puntland flags and gobols added. They go by ISO 3166.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/23/2022 12:50:00 AM

We have a new Bakool sample, clustering closly with Sudanese and Yamen, I think it's the Luway.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19367/
NetNomad 1/23/2022 7:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new Bakool sample, clustering closly with Sudanese and Yamen, I think it's the Luway.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19367/

I would like to see some Southeast African T samples on yfull. Especially not from Swahili coastals or Lembas (too recent), but from the inland areas that could tell us something about South Cushitic T lineages. Perhaps they have that version.
drobbah 1/23/2022 8:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

I would like to see some Southeast African T samples on yfull. Especially not from Swahili coastals or Lembas (too recent), but from the inland areas that could tell us something about South Cushitic T lineages. Perhaps they have that version.

Rendille and Iraqw results would be interesting to see as well as those found among some Omotic speaking populations. Although I don't think any of them would be closely related to the Somali Dirs/Isaaqs besides possibly our camel herding Rendille cousins.
Araz 1/28/2022 9:16:00 AM

@farjanomar, got your message but I can't respond as the system says I've got to have at least 10 posts to be able to send a pm. In response to your question, yes, my friend will join the Somali DNA Project as soon as he's got his results.
Araz 1/29/2022 2:32:00 PM

I grew up in Kenya and I am familiar with the Rendille people. They believe they descend from nine Somali men who got lost and were absorbed by the Samburu people.
Araz 2/2/2022 12:00:00 PM

@farjanomar, my Wabeneeye friend has got his results and joined the Somali DNA Project. It will be interesting where he falls. Another MJ has also joined. Both are upto y37.
Garaacad 2/2/2022 3:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

@farjanomar, my Wabeneeye friend has got his results and joined the Somali DNA Project. It will be interesting where he falls. Another MJ has also joined. Both are upto y37.

What sub clan is the other MJ?
farjanomar 2/2/2022 10:20:00 PM

@Araz @Garaacad.

The other guy is Osman Maxmud. They did not put him in a group yet.

I also helped Ismaciil Saleeban friend from 23andme to join, Hopefully he takes Y37 test.
Flub 2/3/2022 10:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new Bakool sample, clustering closly with Sudanese and Yamen, I think it's the Luway.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-Y19367/

Nice to see the Maay lang indicator.
Araz 2/3/2022 1:19:00 PM

@farjanomar and @garacad - yes the other chap is Osman Mahamoud
farjanomar 2/4/2022 3:35:00 AM

@Araz

The new kit# SI12862 is your friend?
Araz 2/4/2022 1:44:00 PM

@farjanomar, he is my friend
NetNomad 2/6/2022 11:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Araz

@farjanomar, my Wabeneeye friend has got his results and joined the Somali DNA Project. It will be interesting where he falls.

If you can, advise him to get Nebula. His STRs are quite different from the others in E-Y163949. He might end up being E-Y163928*.
Araz 2/7/2022 1:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

If you can, advise him to get Nebula. His STRs are quite different from the others in E-Y163949. He might end up being E-Y163928*.

Interesting, thanks walaal. I am not familiar with Nebula. Is there a particular plan I should advise him to go with?
NetNomad 2/7/2022 3:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

Interesting, thanks walaal. I am not familiar with Nebula. Is there a particular plan I should advise him to go with?

It is similar to Dante Labs in pricing, but they have (upcoming?) partnerships with FTDNA and Nebula is more consumer-friendly. The user interface of Dante is terrible and the wait times are very long. I think Nebula is the best budget whole genome company at the moment.

Your friend shows more STR similarities to E-Y163949 people than id:YF066563 does, but something about his STRs seem off for Y163949. If I were to guess, he will end up in between E-Y163928* and E-Y163949*.
farjanomar 2/8/2022 6:17:00 AM

STRs are unpredictable sometimes. The only 100% way to be sure is SNP testing (big Y test).

I share with him two alleles that i don't with the other E-163949's DSY488-20 and DSY389ii-30,

but still a difference of three at Y12.
NetNomad 2/8/2022 3:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

STRs are unpredictable sometimes. The only 100% way to be sure is SNP testing (big Y test).

I share with him two alleles that i don't with the other E-163949's DSY488-20 and DSY389ii-30,

but still a difference of three at Y12.

True, nevertheless at DYS437 he got 13, which seems very rare. What's more, everyone in E-Y163949 got DYS442 = 13, while he is DYS442 = 12. His CDY is also quite different.

Since E-Y163949 is the most detailed medieval Somali lineage at the moment, it would be a nice experiment to see how reliable STRs are with medieval age E-Y18629 lineages.
Araz 2/9/2022 9:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

True, nevertheless at DYS437 he got 13, which seems very rare. What's more, everyone in E-Y163949 got DYS442 = 13, while he is DYS442 = 12. His CDY is also quite different.

Since E-Y163949 is the most detailed medieval Somali lineage at the moment, it would be a nice experiment to see how reliable STRs are with medieval age E-Y18629 lineages.

Thanks for the advise @netnomad and @farjanomar - very useful. Intriguing results! I will get Yusuf to join this group too. I do know that he is interested in getting the BigY at some stage. He told me that he doesn't have any matches. Could that be because there is something off about his results? Wouldn't BigY show up missing matches? Seems strange as I would think most Somalis would match at least some Somalis...
farjanomar 2/10/2022 9:38:00 AM

@Araz, Your welcome bro. Good idea for him to join the forum.

Nothing wrong with not having matches, without big Y test. I myself did not have matches until i did big Y test.

No Y12 match No Y37 and Y111 but with big Y, i have two matches which have my SNP (E-FT81055).

The Somali Samples are still very small, so its ok not to have matches especially without big Y test.
NetNomad 2/16/2022 10:40:00 AM

Somali specific maternal sub-lineages seem to also start diverging around 4,000 years mostly:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3a2a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3h2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1a1a3a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1b2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/M1a1d2/ (American sample is likely Somali, it is from a military database).

etc.

This one is a bit older and likely more around the time of proto-Cushitic:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R0a2p/

This one is also a bit puzzling, an Eritrean and a Somali with a tie within more recent times (maybe via Afars it spread to Eris):

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3i2a/
Araz 2/16/2022 1:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Somali specific maternal sub-lineages seem to also start diverging around 4,000 years mostly:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3a2a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3h2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1a1a3a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1b2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/M1a1d2/ (American sample is likely Somali, it is from a military database).

etc.

This one is a bit older and likely more around the time of proto-Cushitic:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R0a2p/

This one is also a bit puzzling, an Eritrean and a Somali with a tie within more recent times (maybe via Afars it spread to Eris):

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3i2a/

Are FTDNA maternal groupings identical to the 23andme ones or do they go deeper?
NetNomad 2/17/2022 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Araz

Are FTDNA maternal groupings identical to the 23andme ones or do they go deeper?

It is similar, but yfull also adds samples from academic studies to compare to.
Araz 2/18/2022 12:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Somali specific maternal sub-lineages seem to also start diverging around 4,000 years mostly:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3a2a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3h2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1a1a3a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1b2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/M1a1d2/ (American sample is likely Somali, it is from a military database).

etc.

This one is a bit older and likely more around the time of proto-Cushitic:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R0a2p/

This one is also a bit puzzling, an Eritrean and a Somali with a tie within more recent times (maybe via Afars it spread to Eris):

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3i2a/

@netnomad, this is interesting. If I am not mistaken, the majority of Somalis have either L3, M and N with the later two being back migrations into the Horn? I wonder what brought the M and N women back to the Horn and who their male kin were - did they come with them or alone...any thoughts?

Talking of maternal sub-lineage, 23andme assigned me to the L0a'b'f mtdna haplogroup. According to my friend who seems to know this subject, 23andme may not be accurate as he believes I actually belong to a lineage between L0a'b'f and L0f (L0f descends from L0a'b'f), or pre-L0f if you will. I lack two of the mutations that define L0f (13145G and 16327C), probably meaning my lineage split off sometime before the other lineages defined as L0f split up. I haven't met anyone else with this mtdna so far.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/24/2022 7:34:00 AM

We have a Marehan reer Axned Husein results coming up soon, I'm looking forward to his results. He should score 163949.Im not so confident with the Marehan Mamasane, Celi and Soonfure results.as they were an already established sub clans when the Marehan was leading Gadabursi Sultanate. Hirabu was From the reer Matan Eis Ahmed sub clan or the Marehan known as reer Garaad today, who live in Gedo and Faafhan near Jugjiga.
drobbah 2/24/2022 8:01:00 AM

Marexaan leading Gadabursi Sultanate? Never thought I would hear that one before lol
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/24/2022 8:11:00 AM

Hirabu and Ahmed Gurey Hussein '' the Somali '' were both Marehan and they lead the Habar Makador. They are reer Matan Eis Ahmed of Marehan. Their are numerous quutos that the Gadabursi were lead by Marehan and they paid tribute to Garaad Hirabu the Garaad of the Marehan.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/24/2022 8:48:00 AM

The Gadabursi Sultanate was lead by the boqor Mohamed Duad sub clan of the Marehan, who are reer Sade Daarood. Check out this Sameroon abtirsi they claim that they are under the Gadhasid, Ghada people Sid=Sade.

[Bad Link]

After the death of Axhmed Gurey Nur Ibn Mujahid who is reer Yusuf Matan Eis sub clan or sometimes known in Arabic as Suha Duha or Reer HodanBari Marehan lead the Gadabursi and the Somali's,

Tradition testifies Emir Nur Mujahid was from Somali-Darod tribe of Marehan"

You can read the journal piece here;

[Bad Link]

The German got the complete name of Emir Nur down saying he is;

Nur Ali Abdullahi of ad-Dhuha Suha/Marehan

Marehan have his abtirsi down as

Nur Ali Abdullahi Nur Yusuf Mataan Ciis Ahmed Mohamed Da'ud Abadir of reer Hodanbari/Mareexaan.

[Bad Link]

Notice his family surname is listed as ad-Dhuha Suha family in the German piece and in Marehan geneology he is part of reer Hodanbari

Dhuha = morning

Suha: beautiful/amazing

Hodan: wealthy/amazing (dhulkaan waa hodan)

Bari ; daybreak/early morning (nabad ku bari)

The family name is basically "waking up to a beautiful, vibrant morning" or "morning light"

There's other sources independent of this that are from the 1970s that state he is Marehan. Marehan inherited the Adal Sultanate after the Imam's death. Emir Nur's descendants, the Ina Nur guarded his tomb in Harar to this day.
drobbah 2/25/2022 12:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Hirabu and Ahmed Gurey Hussein '' the Somali '' were both Marehan and they lead the Habar Makador. They are reer Matan Eis Ahmed of Marehan. Their are numerous quutos that the Gadabursi were lead by Marehan and they paid tribute to Garaad Hirabu the Garaad of the Marehan.

Axmed Gurey lead the Habar Magaadle (majority of the Isaaq clan) we settled this in another thread using the Arabic sources.Plus most of what you said can’t be proven either
drobbah 2/26/2022 12:56:00 AM

Interesting new developments:

-The Raxanweyn remains at E-BY192465* (2600 ybp tmrca) while the the Dir Muse Dhariye & Banadir sample share a downstream subclade with a tmrca of 400ybp

-The Marexaan sample carrying the Oromo variant of E-Z813 is currently situated downstream at E-Y204806* with a 800 ybp tmrca.The downstream Saudi and Amhara will probably have their tmrca changed to a younger date

-The Garre and Kenyan Borana who carry E-BY64848 currently have a tmrca of 2900 ybp.

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Somali specific maternal sub-lineages seem to also start diverging around 4,000 years mostly:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3a2a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3h2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1a1a3a1/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/N1b2a/

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/M1a1d2/ (American sample is likely Somali, it is from a military database).

etc.

This one is a bit older and likely more around the time of proto-Cushitic:

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/R0a2p/

This one is also a bit puzzling, an Eritrean and a Somali with a tie within more recent times (maybe via Afars it spread to Eris):

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3i2a/

Somali L0a1d1c with a tmrca of 3000 ybp.Also another Somalilander from Sanaag has been recently added as L0a1d1*
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/26/2022 10:50:00 AM

This is interesting.
NetNomad 2/27/2022 6:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Somali L0a1d1c with a tmrca of 3000 ybp.Also another Somalilander from Sanaag has been recently added as L0a1d1*

Looks like the proto-Somali ethnicity started around then. I just found it interesting how it somewhat matches the oldest Y TMRCAs of Somalis.
Omaar 2/27/2022 9:24:00 PM

Is the guy Dir Muse? great!.

So Dir Muse has two lineages!(FT77328 and FTB35550) . As far as i know, my clan lived in the Southern Somalia for a long time! i'm surprised!

So far Y18637 has 5 branches. At least three of them are from Northern Somalia.

#1-E-BY8100

#2-E-BY192465>FT77328-Sanaag?

#3-E-FT420077>Y229068-Sanaag

#4-E-FTB35550-Sanaag

#5-E-BY8081
drobbah 2/28/2022 2:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Is the guy Dir Muse? great!.

So Dir Muse has two lineages!(FT77328 and FTB35550) . As far as i know, my clan lived in the Southern Somalia for a long time! i'm surprised!

So far Y18637 has 5 branches. At least three of them are from Northern Somalia.

#1-E-BY8100

#2-E-BY192465>FT77328-Sanaag?

#3-E-FT420077>Y229068-Sanaag

#4-E-FTB35550-Sanaag

#5-E-BY8081

Yes it’s the Musa Dhariye sample.They claim Dir but they are considered Gaboye/🌮 (outcast clans) in Somaliland.400 ybp is pretty recent tbh although there are other Musa Dhariye on yfull and ftdna that don’t belong under the same subclade as you.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/28/2022 4:25:00 AM

The Banadir sample on Yfull, which sub clan of Hawiye does he belong to?
NetNomad 2/28/2022 6:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Yes it’s the Musa Dhariye sample.They claim Dir but they are considered Gaboye/🌮 (outcast clans) in Somaliland.400 ybp is pretty recent tbh although there are other Musa Dhariye on yfull and ftdna that don’t belong under the same subclade as you.

400 years is extremely close. I think there is a high probability he has a South Somali non-paternity event on his abtiris.

Any chance his family lived in Mogadishu for multiple generations?
farjanomar 3/12/2022 6:34:00 AM

I think, the first E-M183 has joined the Somali Project. I compared his STRs with the members of E-183 Ftdna Project.

Also, the first HG A member. I wonder if it entered Somalia from Arabia.
blackflash16 3/14/2022 12:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by blackflash16

My Nebula 30x genome kit is finally analyzed and available. I connected my account to Y-Full and it gave me a preliminary assignment of E-Y17859 > E-Y18629 > E-Y163928 > E-Y163949 > E-FT18668

Looks like I'm now under E-FT18668 > E-FT21265. I'm the E-FT21265* sample, with the other two samples previously assigned to E-FT18668 now in their own subclade E-FT21265 > E-FT22485.
Araz 3/15/2022 5:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Araz, Your welcome bro. Good idea for him to join the forum.

Nothing wrong with not having matches, without big Y test. I myself did not have matches until i did big Y test.

No Y12 match No Y37 and Y111 but with big Y, i have two matches which have my SNP (E-FT81055).

The Somali Samples are still very small, so its ok not to have matches especially without big Y test.

@farjanomar, we now have a new entry to the Somali DNA Project. This is the Danweeyne (Abdalle Nolays) friend I had mentioned to you. He did y12. He is sitting with E-Y18637>E-BY8081 group. We now have Mahamoud Saleeban, Ali Saleeban, Bicidyahan and Danweeyne all matching, but Wabeneeye spun off to sit under E-Y163949.
farjanomar 3/15/2022 7:53:00 AM

@Araz.

Yaa i saw that. That's good. lets keep testing as many as possible.
Garaacad 3/15/2022 7:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

@farjanomar, we now have a new entry to the Somali DNA Project. This is the Danweeyne (Abdalle Nolays) friend I had mentioned to you. He did y12. He is sitting with E-Y18637>E-BY8081 group. We now have Mahamoud Saleeban, Ali Saleeban, Bicidyahan and Danweeyne all matching, but Wabeneeye spun off to sit under E-Y163949.

Nolays is just 1 name away from Aawe the founder of the clan. Looks like I was right most Mjs are E-BY8081.
Araz 3/16/2022 8:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Nolays is just 1 name away from Aawe the founder of the clan. Looks like I was right most Mjs are E-BY8081.

You may be right as I think all the Saleebans are Maxamed Nolays. I am not sure if the Siwaqroon are also Mohamed Nolays but I know some of the other sub-clans like Bicidyahan and Idigfacle also branch off at the Nolays level.
Garaacad 3/16/2022 4:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

You may be right as I think all the Saleebans are Maxamed Nolays. I am not sure if the Siwaqroon are also Mohamed Nolays but I know some of the other sub-clans like Bicidyahan and Idigfacle also branch off at the Nolays level.

Only Idigfacle branch off at the Nolays level they are Musa Nolays. We meet with Siwaaqroon in the Talareer grouping they are Xuseen Talareer and we are Xasan Talareer. Talareer is the grandson of Maxamed Nolays. As for Bicidyahan they are also Maxamed Noolays but they meet with us far earlier. They are Ali Ibrahim and we are Maxamuud Saleebaan Maxamed Ibrahim.
Garaacad 3/18/2022 6:42:00 PM

What clan is new sample under E-BY8081* on YFull? He’s from Galguduud.
drobbah 3/18/2022 8:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What clan is new sample under E-BY8081* on YFull? He’s from Galguduud.

Murusaade
Garaacad 3/18/2022 8:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Murusaade

Very interesting he’s only the second Hawiye on the YTree. The TMCRA will be interesting.
farjanomar 4/3/2022 1:22:00 AM

Ramadan Kariim to all.
farjanomar 4/3/2022 1:38:00 AM

[QUOTE=Araz;831419]Interesting, thanks walaal. I am not familiar with Nebula. Is there a particular plan I should advise him to go with?[/QUOT
Mujahid Nur Marehan 4/12/2022 7:34:00 AM

Does anybody know the new Gedo id:YF102772 on Yfull?
drobbah 4/12/2022 8:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Does anybody know the new Gedo id:YF102772 on Yfull?

That's the Garre sample, he matches with the Kenyan Borana.The other Gedo sample is a Marexaan matching with the Amhara.Both basically belong to a proto-oromoid subclade imo
drobbah 5/13/2022 10:23:00 PM

A Toghdheer sample (might be Ciise Muuse HA or the other two Isaaq subclans who dominate the region) has joined myself and @Algamest on yfull. E-BY155996 divides in two:

1.A Habar Awal E-BY75676

2.Ashraaf (plus another individual) E-FT239164

There are 4 E-BY75676 on ftdna, 2 being basal (the CM Algamest) and two downstream (myself and another Sacad Muuse).I am making a prediction that this new individual on yfull is probably an HA as on the live tree he is still with us which means he is one of the four E-BY75676+ from ftdna (1 Cm,2 SM)

I'm quite curious who is this individual who shares the same subclade as the Marka Ashraaf dude
Mujahid Nur Marehan 5/16/2022 9:42:00 PM

We have a new person caryng a ne sub clade of E-Z813 lineage on Yfull not sure who that person is.
farjanomar 5/17/2022 4:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

A Toghdheer sample (might be Ciise Muuse HA or the other two Isaaq subclans who dominate the region) has joined myself and @Algamest on yfull. E-BY155996 divides in two:

1.A Habar Awal E-BY75676

2.Ashraaf (plus another individual) E-FT239164

There are 4 E-BY75676 on ftdna, 2 being basal (the CM Algamest) and two downstream (myself and another Sacad Muuse).I am making a prediction that this new individual on yfull is probably an HA as on the live tree he is still with us which means he is one of the four E-BY75676+ from ftdna (1 Cm,2 SM)

I'm quite curious who is this individual who shares the same subclade as the Marka Ashraaf dude

The live page has changed. you and the other HA been given your sub-clade just like Ftdna E-Y219427 same as ftdna E-BY75676. So the new sample

is a member of the other sub-clade E-FT239164.

Bro.I am glad BY155996 main group is finally growing branches.
farjanomar 5/17/2022 4:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new person caryng a ne sub clade of E-Z813 lineage on Yfull not sure who that person is.

The live page has given him E-Z21175, the Oromo majority Haplotype.
drobbah 5/18/2022 3:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

The live page has changed. you and the other HA been given your sub-clade just like Ftdna E-Y219427 same as ftdna E-BY75676. So the new sample

is a member of the other sub-clade E-FT239164.

Bro.I am glad BY155996 main group is finally growing branches.

It might be the other sample that shares the same branch of E-BY155996 as the Ashraaf.It will be interesting to see what the tmrca ends up like.It might be a non-Habar Awal Isaaq either HJ or HY
drobbah 5/18/2022 5:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

The live page has given him E-Z21175, the Oromo majority Haplotype.

That's not the Oromo specific branch, the downstream E-Y161124 is Oromo.This sample seems very basal (E-Z21175*) and could belong to any ethnic group
NetNomad 5/28/2022 7:59:00 AM

Any info on what ethnicity the new basal id:YF103954 person is?
Garaacad 6/2/2022 8:15:00 PM

There’s a new Habar Gidir Cayr sample coming up. He is doing Nebula they just received his sample at the lab. He should get his results within the next couple of months. This sub-clan Cayr has no borders with Majeerteen so his result should be representative of what most Habar Gidirs have.

@NetNomad You said you were interested in Habar Gidir results is there any prediction you want to make?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/3/2022 12:38:00 AM

I am predicting he will be 50% haplogroup T. Hassan Dahir Aways once mentioned that some sure claimed that his sub clan of Ayaanle Cayr were lost sure Dir sub clan. Also Cayr live with Marehan in Shilaabo even though Shilabo was originally Marehan Town, nevertheless 50% of Shilabo citizens were haplogroup T. I think some Cayr are of Makahiil origin or Sure Dir. As Shilabo has also a minority Makahiil gacanweyne inhabitants who now claim Ogaden.
Garaacad 6/3/2022 2:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I am predicting he will be 50% haplogroup T. Hassan Dahir Aways once mentioned that some sure claimed that his sub clan of Ayaanle Cayr were lost sure Dir sub clan. Also Cayr live with Marehan in Shilaabo even though Shilabo was originally Marehan Town, nevertheless 50% of Shilabo citizens were haplogroup T. I think some Cayr are of Makahiil origin or Sure Dir. As Shilabo has also a minority Makahiil gacanweyne inhabitants who now claim Ogaden.

He is not from that specific Cayr sub-clan you mentioned and 23andme has already confirmed that he is E-V32.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/3/2022 7:33:00 AM

Cayr were known as Ajuran until very recently, they adopted Hawiye identity until very recently..
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/3/2022 10:01:00 AM

Were EV32 Somali's camel herders in Northern Sudan, maybe that's the reason we entered Horn via lowlands of Eritrea, I wonder how long we have been domesticating canels, and the connection it had with the success of founder effect of our EV32 sub lineage.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/3/2022 10:17:00 AM

It's very possible that the many E1b1b lineages in the gulf entered thee thousands of years ago and are not due to slave trade, Its only the past five thousand years or so that the Bab El Mendab strait was formed. Horn of Africa and Arabia were connected through a land bridge, this ended until very recently due to climate change which caused sea levels to rise. This makes me believe that the E1b1b2 lineages in Yamen are very ancient.
drobbah 6/4/2022 4:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Any info on what ethnicity the new basal id:YF103954 person is?

Somali-Dhulbahante
drobbah 6/4/2022 4:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

It's very possible that the many E1b1b lineages in the gulf entered thee thousands of years ago and are not due to slave trade, Its only the past five thousand years or so that the Bab El Mendab strait was formed. Horn of Africa and Arabia were connected through a land bridge, this ended until very recently due to climate change which caused sea levels to rise. This makes me believe that the E1b1b2 lineages in Yamen are very ancient.

It depends on the specific lineage.Some of those young Chadian-Sahelian specific E-V32 or the E-M293 found among Persian Gulf Arabs is more than likely from recent Islamic Slave trade.The lineages they share with NE Africans like Egyptians,Nubians & Horners could be from pre-islamic interactions with the Levant,Western Saudi Arabia & Yemen.The Egyptian Empire and it's domination of the Levant could be a reason why frequently E-V32 lineages (of either Egyptian or Nubian) are found mainly in Jordanian/Palestinians and not their Northern Lebanese/Syrian neighbors for example
Garaacad 6/4/2022 7:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Cayr were known as Ajuran until very recently, they adopted Hawiye identity until very recently..

I sent you a private message respond to it bro.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/5/2022 1:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I sent you a private message respond to it bro.

Yes the one on ftd is E-BY8081, however the one on Ftd only did 37 markers, but his second cousin on the paternal side did yfull and he is E-BY8081, I don't think he paid the Yfull fee though as he tod me.maybe that explains why he hasnt formed a closer TMRC with other Majerteen on yfiull.
Garaacad 6/8/2022 7:08:00 PM

What clan is the new guy under E-BY8088? I’m guessing it’s another Omar Mahmoud since he’s from Mudug.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/11/2022 9:02:00 PM

There might be up to 3% of Somali males who carry haplogroup R according to a DNA project, it could be maybe coastal Somali communities.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/17/2022 7:18:00 AM

We have a new Hawl qasim a reer Mohamud sample id:YF104913 under E-163949, I don't think his TMRC will go up compared to the rest of the group,He is probibally from Puntland or he is reer Ahmed hawl qasim from daqaxbuur District.
Garaacad 6/17/2022 6:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new Hawl qasim a reer Mohamud sample id:YF104913 under E-163949, I don't think his TMRC will go up compared to the rest of the group,He is probibally from Puntland or he is reer Ahmed hawl qasim from daqaxbuur District.

He probably isn’t Reer Maxamuud as in the MJ sub-clan. It wouldn’t make sense because Maxamuud Ibrahim is the brother of Reer Bicidyahan (Ali Ibrahim) and Maxamuud Saleebaan (Maxamed Ibrahim). Why would he match with those so far away from him in terms of Abtirsi?

A Reer Bicidyahan guy who did Y37 on FTDNA almost perfectly matches the Saleebaans. So this Hawl Qasim guy definitely isn’t Reer Maxamuud.

@Farjanomar told me he’s from Jijiga and claims Darood.
Saeed 6/26/2022 2:25:00 AM

Some reer Aw Xasan guy from Hiiraan is doing Nebula, idk anything about that clan though.

He got E-V32 on 23andMe.

Still waiting for my Nebula results too.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/26/2022 9:36:00 AM

My somali spot acount has been blocked, I wanted all my post and everything deleted and terminated but it looks like it has just been blocked.

I have a new snp on my Y report FT450089H, What do you guys predict? Do you think that hawl qasim is a lost Marehan?
farjanomar 6/26/2022 9:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Some reer Aw Xasan guy from Hiiraan is doing Nebula, idk anything about that clan though.

He got E-V32 on 23andMe.

Still waiting for my Nebula results too.

Welcome bro, good thing you did your big Y test. Nebula takes longer time now, Coz so many People using it, its the cheapest for big Y tests.

As for Reer Aw-xasan Clan, They are a Sub-clan of Shiekhaal Clan.
diini95 6/26/2022 3:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Some reer Aw Xasan guy from Hiiraan is doing Nebula, idk anything about that clan though.

He got E-V32 on 23andMe.

Still waiting for my Nebula results too.

I'm also Reer Aw Xasan I can't wait to see his results.
Garaacad 6/27/2022 5:45:00 AM

Does anyone know what clan the guy under E-Y18632* is? I’ve been wondering about this for some time.
farjanomar 6/29/2022 9:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Does anyone know what clan the guy under E-Y18632* is? I’ve been wondering about this for some time.

Its anyone's guess. But one thing i have noticed is him and the galgaduud sample have the light green "incomplete". So they did not get tmrca.

(maybe something to do with payments)
farjanomar 6/29/2022 9:33:00 AM

@Mujahid Nur Marehan

I have sent you a private message.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/29/2022 1:23:00 PM

I can't see your private message. What is it regarding?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/29/2022 1:42:00 PM

Sent me a message my user nane on somali spot Garaad Hirabu. I think people can't see my messages the admin hasn't aproven my acount I thing.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/30/2022 12:00:00 AM

If the reer Ahmed Lelkase and Marehan form a subclade, than we meet up at reer Eis Ahmed, son of Boqor Mohaned Duad.
farjanomar 6/30/2022 3:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I can't see your private message. What is it regarding?

I just read you message on this site.
NetNomad 7/2/2022 7:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

If the reer Ahmed Lelkase and Marehan form a subclade, than we meet up at reer Eis Ahmed, son of Boqor Mohaned Duad.

I don't think E-Y163949 matches Darod genealogy. It seemed like it at first, but now it no longer makes any sense. The Leelkase don't have the E-FT24258 SNP, while E-Y163949 carrying Marehans do suggesting Sade/Marehan can't be a direct son of Darod. Moreover, the Wabeeneeye guy who has strange STRs will likely get similar pre-FT24258 classification. E-Y163949 seems like a Northeast Somali origin lineage that somehow got caught up in the Darod story rather than it matching the Darod genealogical structure precisely.

Only an ancient DNA study on those early Darod graves can solve this mystery.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/2/2022 8:28:00 PM

Or we can test Reer Garaad and reer Cismaan Marehan sub clans who held the Marehan Garaad titles prior to my lineage, reer Garaad are reer Matan Eis and reer Cismasn are reer Boqor Mohaned Duad, maybe they will give us the answers.
NetNomad 7/3/2022 2:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Or we can test Reer Garaad and reer Cismaan Marehan sub clans who held the Marehan Garaad titles prior to my lineage, reer Garaad are reer Matan Eis and reer Cismasn are reer Boqor Mohaned Duad, maybe they will give us the answers.

If I were you, I would request the E-FT24258 SNP on YSEQ's wish a SNP option ( http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=108 )

That way you can cheaply test ($18) various Marehan sub-clans and see which ones got that SNP.
farjanomar 7/4/2022 12:43:00 AM

@NetNomad.

Firstly, welcome back bro. We were waiting for your analysis of Somali big Y Updates in the last few months especially my group E-Y163949.

Secondly, i think the odd sub-clade is not E-FT24258, but, rather newest and the fourth sub-clade E-FTC21443.

E-FT24258 is a young Warsangali lineage around 7-10 generations a go. I predicted this, when i anylised the the two Warsangali STR's being very close.

but since only one Warsangali has big Y, they instead matched with A dhulbahante (SDPP, artisan person) likely lost Warsangali, who did the big Y

However its odd that newest Sub-clade of E-163949/E-FTC21443 has been assigned to two completely different Darood Sub-clans A Leelkase and a Jidwaaq/Abuskuul.

But i think we should wait for more samples as to make sure, like about 5-10 like the Dhulbahante Lineage E-FT18668 which has now over six big Y samples.
farjanomar 7/4/2022 12:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

If I were you, I would request the E-FT24258 SNP on YSEQ's wish a SNP option ( http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=108 )

That way you can cheaply test ($18) various Marehan sub-clans and see which ones got that SNP.

We are awaiting two Mareexan big Y results within two weeks, they should form a Mareexan Sub-clade. The new Somali Project member ( IN117257)is also Mareexan waited two months so far.

Funny thing, when i asked him if he was Mareexan, was surprised, and, asked me how i know. Told him i could read the his DNA numbers (STRs), and could see them being very close to the tested Mareexans.
farjanomar 7/4/2022 1:18:00 AM

@NetNomad @Mujahid Nur.

Also just like E-Y163949 special STR Markers DYS388-13 and DYS389ii-31, the Leelkase and Mareexan have now their own unique STR markers.

A- Mareexan DYS385-16-16 and DYS459-9-9.

B-Leelkase DYS385-15-17 and DYS439-12 instead of 11 for others.
farjanomar 7/7/2022 8:10:00 AM

The big Y result is ready for the second Marehan after Mujahid Nur Marehan. Most likely Nur Mujahid and him will create a new SNP, once uploaded on yfull.
farjanomar 7/12/2022 11:14:00 PM

Congrats Nur Mujahid! As predicted you and the new Marehan sample have created a new SNP. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y272428/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/12/2022 11:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Congrats Nur Mujahid! As predicted you and the new Marehan sample have created a new SNP. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y272428/

We are 13th cousin paternally, so I expect us to share a TMRC of around 325 ypd, the upcoming reer Diini subclade should have a younger TMRC of around 200 ypd.
Garaacad 7/13/2022 5:46:00 PM

The Hawl Qasim guy is now claiming to be from Bari. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y163928/

I think he may belong to one of the artisanal groups.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/13/2022 5:57:00 PM

Sub clade E-163949 must have had a long presence in west Bari, we will start to have a clearer picture on how wide spread haplogroup E-163949 was in Bari when Siwaqroon, Tinle and others in North East Bari take the Yfull.
Garaacad 7/13/2022 6:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

How come Kabtanle, Tinle, Disheshe and Siwaqroon sub clans are hiding from taking yfull, or are they minority sub clans? I think Tinle and Kabtanle will be sons of Sade.

Those clans probably don’t have much of a diaspora presence. The Daanweyne are higher up than the Siwaaqroon in the MJ clan structure, and they seem to be at least E-Y18637 based on their Y STRs.

I’ve yet to see any non-Wabeeneeye MJ sub clan score E-Y163949*.
drobbah 8/7/2022 3:20:00 AM

Ftdna now also has tmrca's with their Discover report feature.My subclades starting from E-Y17859:

E-Y17859:2900 ybp

Somali E-FT18121:2200 ybp

E-BY155996:2100 ybp

Habar Awal E-BY75676: 750 ybp

Jibriil Abokor E-FT385910: 500 ybp

The brother clade to Somali E-FT18121 which is E-BY8075 (it is found in one Egyptian and two Hejazi Saudis) has a tmrca of 800 ybp
Garaacad 8/10/2022 6:33:00 PM

I don’t think E-Y18637 is Samaale anymore. The mythical Samaale abtirsi goes Abroone > Hiil > Samaale > Irir > Hawiye. http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=572

Hiil supposedly had two sons Sabe and Samaale. Sabe is the ancestor of the Raxanweyn. The guy under E-BY192465* is a Raxanweyn. The YFull estimate for the TMCRA for E-BY192465* is dated to 3500ypb-1800ypb. I think it is probably closer to 1800ypb.

An SNP between E-BY192465* and E-FT77328 is probably a more suitable candidate for Samaale. This would explain why clans like the Ugaaslabe and my own have no links to the traditional Samaale story.
NetNomad 8/11/2022 7:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I don’t think E-Y18637 is Samaale anymore. The mythical Samaale abtirsi goes Abroone > Hiil > Samaale > Irir > Hawiye. http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=572

Hiil supposedly had two sons Sabe and Samaale. Sabe is the ancestor of the Raxanweyn. The guy under E-BY192465* is a Raxanweyn. The YFull estimate for the TMCRA for E-BY192465* is dated to 3500ypb-1800ypb. I think it is probably closer to 1800ypb.

An SNP between E-BY192465* and E-FT77328 is probably a more suitable candidate for Samaale. This would explain why clans like the Ugaaslabe and my own have no links to the traditional Samaale story.

That Samaale system may be skipping lineages though and likely isn't as thoroughly detailed as the records of younger sub-sub-clans we have today, if it is true at all. However, the fact that Somalis are so paternally bottlenecked (E-Y18629 & T-BY181210 accounting for the vast majority of Somali Y diversity) makes me think there may be truth to some of it. This patriarchal clan culture clearly didn't come to Somalis post-Islam/since the Middle Ages.
NetNomad 8/11/2022 8:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

If I were you, I would request the E-FT24258 SNP on YSEQ's wish a SNP option ( http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=108 )

That way you can cheaply test ($18) various Marehan sub-clans and see which ones got that SNP.

@Mujahid Nur Marehan;

The above post was a mistake. The Leelkase and Marehan samples with E-Y163949 do not have E-FT24258 in the latest FT tree. E-FT24258 looks to be a Harti associated SNP instead (Warsangeli, Wabeneye, Dhulbahante having carriers). Weirdly, E-FT24258 does not show up on YFull but it is on the FT tree. Maybe quality control standard differences?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 8/12/2022 6:32:00 AM

Interesting stuff. Hopefully very soon we will get a clearer picture on the historic migrations of beesha Sade.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 8/12/2022 8:38:00 AM

So if my supposed sub clade is E-BY203771, how come yfull and Ftd have not asighned beesha Sade with one of Phylogenetic Children: FT24258 BY203531 FT18668 FTC21443? Even Ftd haven't asighned us with any of those sub lineages? I think the hawl qasim, Lelkase and Jidwaaq were all asighned a sub clade of E-BY203771, except the Marehan. Why is Marehan the only clan left out?
NetNomad 8/12/2022 1:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

So if my supposed sub clade is E-BY203771, how come yfull and Ftd have not asighned beesha Sade with one of Phylogenetic Children: FT24258 BY203531 FT18668 FTC21443? Even Ftd haven't asighned us with any of those sub lineages? I think the hawl qasim, Lelkase and Jidwaaq were all asighned a sub clade of E-BY203771, except the Marehan. Why is Marehan the only clan left out?

E-Y163949 / E-BY203771 currently has three subclades:

E-FTC21443 (Leelkase linked)

E-Y272428 / E-FTA15178 (certain Marehan sub-clans linked) - @Mujahid Nur Marehan; you have this one.

E-FT24258 (not on YFull, but on the FT tree, likely a real subclade and not just a tech error, various Harti clans linked)

There are some E-Y163949* / E-BY203771* left as you mentioned, but they haven't formed a subclade yet due to not matching any of the other samples. If people from their sub-sub-clan show up they will form a sub-clade.

If this is confusing, just log into FTdna's website and look at the tree and compare it to YFull's live one.
NetNomad 8/12/2022 5:25:00 PM

@Mujahid Nur Marehan;

I emailed YFull and asked if they could add E-FT24258. I haven't received a response yet, but lol it looks like it has been added already. So in a few days / two weeks I think E-FT24258 will show up on the live tree of YFull.
farjanomar 8/17/2022 9:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

E-Y163949 / E-BY203771 currently has three subclades:

E-FTC21443 (Leelkase linked)

E-Y272428 / E-FTA15178 (certain Marehan sub-clans linked) - @Mujahid Nur Marehan; you have this one.

E-FT24258 (not on YFull, but on the FT tree, likely a real subclade and not just a tech error, various Harti clans linked)

There are some E-Y163949* / E-BY203771* left as you mentioned, but they haven't formed a subclade yet due to not matching any of the other samples. If people from their sub-sub-clan show up they will form a sub-clade.

If this is confusing, just log into FTdna's website and look at the tree and compare it to YFull's live one.

You are either very busy or you forgot your glasses lol. E-Y163949 has five subclades:

First subclade created: E-FT18668 with 6 members on yfull (Dhulbahante linked)

Second subclade created: E-FT81055 with 3 members on yfull (Wabeeneye linked)

Third subclade created: E-FT24258 with 2 members on ftdna (My prediction, Warsangali linked)

Fourth subclade created: E-FTC21443 with 2 member on ftdna (My prediction, Leelkase linked, once the second leelkase big y sample comes back in a month)

Fifth subclade created: E-Y272428 with 3 members on yfull ( Marehan linked).

There is a confusion with subclade E-FTC21443 because a Abaskuul (his result is private) and a leelkase tested for it-they are not closely related sub clans.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 8/19/2022 5:41:00 PM

The Harti clade E-FT24258 has just formed on Yfull, Har ti Darood, sounds like the Darood that stayed over, not the Darood that moved away, either way it seems as a legit clan waw, the Harti march perfectly acording to oral tradition.
NetNomad 8/20/2022 12:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

You are either very busy or you forgot your glasses lol. E-Y163949 has five subclades:

First subclade created: E-FT18668 with 6 members on yfull (Dhulbahante linked)

Second subclade created: E-FT81055 with 3 members on yfull (Wabeeneye linked)

Third subclade created: E-FT24258 with 2 members on ftdna (My prediction, Warsangali linked)

Fourth subclade created: E-FTC21443 with 2 member on ftdna (My prediction, Leelkase linked, once the second leelkase big y sample comes back in a month)

Fifth subclade created: E-Y272428 with 3 members on yfull ( Marehan linked).

There is a confusion with subclade E-FTC21443 because a Abaskuul (his result is private) and a leelkase tested for it-they are not closely related sub clans.

Check the current YFull live tree. It is 3.
Saeed 8/20/2022 12:27:00 AM

Hello, I am the Cayr Galgaduud sample ID:YF107912, it seems I've got a new subclade as well? Does anyone know the clan of the Banaadir sample? I thought it was Abgaal but now I'm not sure.
NetNomad 8/20/2022 10:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Hello, I am the Cayr Galgaduud sample ID:YF107912, it seems I've got a new subclade as well? Does anyone know the clan of the Banaadir sample? I thought it was Abgaal but now I'm not sure.

You can message people on YFull. There is a messaging system, try it out. Sometimes it might take awhile though for you to get a response as some people take these tests and then forget about it, so patience.

In a few weeks you will get a TMRCA (subclade dating).
farjanomar 8/20/2022 10:33:00 AM

OK Netnomad. I used both ftdna and yfull info.
NetNomad 8/20/2022 3:44:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

OK Netnomad. I used both ftdna and yfull info.

It's the same now.. FTdna'a algorithm found this correction first. Look carefully.
msukhalid 8/23/2022 10:43:00 PM

Hi guys. I am the one of the two ogayslabe samples on yfull belonging to E-Y229068. Another ogayslabe living in Denmark tested through whole genome and uploaded his test to Yfull and we formed our previously mentioned sub clade with a 550 years TMRCA. Our closest relatives are Reer warfaa Ogaden Daarood. Both of us share haplogroup E-FT420077 with a 1550 years TMRCA. We clearly need more individuals to test to have a clearer picture of our genetic situation.

Anyway, I am a third generation Saudi Arabian. We have been in Saudi Arabia since 1947. Therefore; I have a decent understanding of the Saudi clan system. I contacted one of the people belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 through my Majeerteen friend in America and made investigations about the two samples belonging to E-BY8100 and here's what I found. The person I called hails from City dellwers and he said they came from Zabid in Yemen to Najd even though his "tamimi relatives" insist that they belong to Bani Tamim. He said that his grandmother told him that we came here with Al hubeshi (a noble Arab clan that have nothing to do with Abyssinia) and that they moved to the Eastern province to join Al Ajman tribe about 200 years ago put in mind that thus was before they tested. The person I called who said he originally hailed from Al Alimi clan did his Big Y in 2014 and the other guy did it a year later or so. Al Alimi discovered that his ayeeyo was right about some of their tribesmen going to Eastern province but what she failed to understand is that they joined Al Hubeshi branch (most of whom belong to haplogroup J1) of Al Ajman tribe. Al Hubeshi belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 was very upset to learn that he didn't cluster with the rest of his bedouin sub clan and that he descend from city dellwers in Nejd. He asked Al Alimi to never contact him again and hid his sample and information. Anyway, after a year of my call with Mr. Al Alimi. I learned that it was rumoured in their region in Nejd that this family is of a slave descent and that they were incorporated into Al Khudhari community which has Madhiban like status and work in occupations similar to Madhiban with a strict marriage system of their own. That's why the guy who's essentially a shegato as was confirmed by his DNA results was very upset to learn that he is a descendant of that lower caste community. Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to clarify how this very unique samples ended up amongst Somalis.
Garaacad 8/24/2022 12:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by msukhalid

Hi guys. I am the one of the two ogayslabe samples on yfull belonging to E-Y229068. Another ogayslabe living in Denmark tested through whole genome and uploaded his test to Yfull and we formed our previously mentioned sub clade with a 550 years TMRCA. Our closest relatives are Reer warfaa Ogaden Daarood. Both of us share haplogroup E-FT420077 with a 1550 years TMRCA. We clearly need more individuals to test to have a clearer picture of our genetic situation.

Anyway, I am a third generation Saudi Arabian. We have been in Saudi Arabia since 1947. Therefore; I have a decent understanding of the Saudi clan system. I contacted one of the people belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 through my Majeerteen friend in America and made investigations about the two samples belonging to E-BY8100 and here's what I found. The person I called hails from City dellwers and he said they came from Zabid in Yemen to Najd even though his "tamimi relatives" insist that they belong to Bani Tamim. He said that his grandmother told him that we came here with Al hubeshi (a noble Arab clan that have nothing to do with Abyssinia) and that they moved to the Eastern province to join Al Ajman tribe about 200 years ago put in mind that thus was before they tested. The person I called who said he originally hailed from Al Alimi clan did his Big Y in 2014 and the other guy did it a year later or so. Al Alimi discovered that his ayeeyo was right about some of their tribesmen going to Eastern province but what she failed to understand is that they joined Al Hubeshi branch (most of whom belong to haplogroup J1) of Al Ajman tribe. Al Hubeshi belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 was very upset to learn that he didn't cluster with the rest of his bedouin sub clan and that he descend from city dellwers in Nejd. He asked Al Alimi to never contact him again and hid his sample and information. Anyway, after a year of my call with Mr. Al Alimi. I learned that it was rumoured in their region in Nejd that this family is of a slave descent and that they were incorporated into Al Khudhari community which has Madhiban like status and work in occupations similar to Madhiban with a strict marriage system of their own. That's why the guy who's essentially a shegato as was confirmed by his DNA results was very upset to learn that he is a descendant of that lower caste community. Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to clarify how this very unique samples ended up amongst Somalis.

So where did the myth that you guys are of Indian origin come from?
drobbah 8/24/2022 5:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by msukhalid

Hi guys. I am the one of the two ogayslabe samples on yfull belonging to E-Y229068. Another ogayslabe living in Denmark tested through whole genome and uploaded his test to Yfull and we formed our previously mentioned sub clade with a 550 years TMRCA. Our closest relatives are Reer warfaa Ogaden Daarood. Both of us share haplogroup E-FT420077 with a 1550 years TMRCA. We clearly need more individuals to test to have a clearer picture of our genetic situation.

Anyway, I am a third generation Saudi Arabian. We have been in Saudi Arabia since 1947. Therefore; I have a decent understanding of the Saudi clan system. I contacted one of the people belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 through my Majeerteen friend in America and made investigations about the two samples belonging to E-BY8100 and here's what I found. The person I called hails from City dellwers and he said they came from Zabid in Yemen to Najd even though his "tamimi relatives" insist that they belong to Bani Tamim. He said that his grandmother told him that we came here with Al hubeshi (a noble Arab clan that have nothing to do with Abyssinia) and that they moved to the Eastern province to join Al Ajman tribe about 200 years ago put in mind that thus was before they tested. The person I called who said he originally hailed from Al Alimi clan did his Big Y in 2014 and the other guy did it a year later or so. Al Alimi discovered that his ayeeyo was right about some of their tribesmen going to Eastern province but what she failed to understand is that they joined Al Hubeshi branch (most of whom belong to haplogroup J1) of Al Ajman tribe. Al Hubeshi belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 was very upset to learn that he didn't cluster with the rest of his bedouin sub clan and that he descend from city dellwers in Nejd. He asked Al Alimi to never contact him again and hid his sample and information. Anyway, after a year of my call with Mr. Al Alimi. I learned that it was rumoured in their region in Nejd that this family is of a slave descent and that they were incorporated into Al Khudhari community which has Madhiban like status and work in occupations similar to Madhiban with a strict marriage system of their own. That's why the guy who's essentially a shegato as was confirmed by his DNA results was very upset to learn that he is a descendant of that lower caste community. Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to clarify how this very unique samples ended up amongst Somalis.

On ftdna those Saudis match with a Red Sea coast Sudani based on their strs which is interesting.Perhaps he was a descendant of a pre-islamic Somali shipped to different Red Sea ports.There is a Kuwaiti who shares a clade (E-FTB35550) with a Madhibaan (low caste) with a tmrca of 1600 ybp. Perhaps "noble Somalis" felt no qualms of selling low caste Somalis untill we all became Islamized which forbids muslims from selling fellow muslims. In the Periplus Of The Erythraean sea it does mention the Barbaroi (predecessors of Somalis) not only partook in the incense trade but also sold some slaves aswell.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 8/28/2022 9:00:00 PM

The Marehan reer Ahmed and Diini TMRC is around 600 ypd acording to yfull,thats really shocking, that would mean we meet up at around 24 generations ago . However if we were to use tradition abtirsi we should have meet up at around 13rh generations ago which would have been at around 350 yod��, I don't trust oral traditions anymore, I know reer Ahmed moved straight to Gedo, rather than migrating first to Galmudug than Gedo,as reer Diini did. This is a dark day for Somali geneiology, I just hope that the rest of my Marehan clan don't become sheegato. Or could having offspring later in life be the cause of this TMRC, inconsistency between science and oral tradition?
Garaacad 8/29/2022 12:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We are 13th cousin paternally, so I expect us to share a TMRC of around 325 ypd, the upcoming reer Diini subclade should have a younger TMRC of around 200 ypd.

Your estimate here was spot on. The lower end of the TMCRA estimate for E-Y272428 is 325 ypb. YFull tends to overestimate when they don't have a lot of samples so just go with the lower estimate.

By the way, the TMCRA for the pan E-Y163949 group has been lowered to 850 ypb.

Interestingly, the TMCRA for the E-BY8081* sample is now at 1350 ypb. I think this Murursade descends from a now unknown clan that was closely related to the MJ clan.
Saeed 8/31/2022 1:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Hello, I am the Cayr Galgaduud sample ID:YF107912, it seems I've got a new subclade as well? Does anyone know the clan of the Banaadir sample? I thought it was Abgaal but now I'm not sure.

It doesn't show that new subclade anymore for some reason, I'm back to the old one I guess.
NetNomad 8/31/2022 4:39:00 AM

It's kind of amazing how hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even up to a few million, can descend directly from a person who lived only a few hundred years ago. Mind-blowing.
Omaar 8/31/2022 8:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

It's kind of amazing how hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even up to a few million, can descend directly from a person who lived only a few hundred years ago. Mind-blowing.

The current tree of FT77328 is not accurate. The coming (Live) tree will be correct and it will look like this: "E-FT77328 formed 2600 ybp, TMRCA 1000 ybp."
Saeed 8/31/2022 9:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

It doesn't show that new subclade anymore for some reason, I'm back to the old one I guess.

Aaaaand now they gave me E-FT77328* as a subclade on the live tree, wonder if they'll change it again.
Omaar 8/31/2022 10:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Aaaaand now they gave me E-FT77328* as a subclade on the live tree, wonder if they'll change it again.

You will soon get your own branch (Y264505).
Garaacad 9/2/2022 4:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I'm from Mogadischu and this is my results : Z809-, Z808-, CTS3507-, L648-, Y17859+. My next step is to test Y18355?

The tree of E-Y17859 according to FTDNA

E-Y17859 formed 4500 ybp, TMRCA 3500 ybp

.BY8048

..BY8051

...BY8080 so far one somali is +

...BY8088 so far one libyan is +

..BY8100 so far one saudi is +

.BY8075

Originally Posted by NetNomad

It's kind of amazing how hundreds of thousands of people, maybe even up to a few million, can descend directly from a person who lived only a few hundred years ago. Mind-blowing.

There’s still something that bugs me. The new guy under E-BY8088 is Osman Mahamoud and the Libyan is BY8088+ although according to abtirsi he should fall under E-Y196848. This isn’t what puzzles me though all three descendants of Maxamuud Saleebaan fall under E-BY217865 who was the phylogenetic child of E-BY8085. The Cali Saleebaan however fall under an SNP upstream to E-BY8085 aka E-Y18640. Now if MS and CS were twins how can one be the uncle of the other. The true abtirsi according to YFull is Maxamuud >unknown > Saleebaan. This is what truly baffles me as Maxamuud Saleebaan doesn’t have a father before Saleebaan. There isn’t even a myth to go by.

Clearly, Maxamuud Saleebaan became more famous than his father due to having more male descendants. Musa Maxamuud was mentioned in Kismayo's 1911 census. The other son of Maxamuud Saleebaan is called Xariire and lives in Ethiopia. I think these clans are descendants of Maxamuud Saleebaan’s long-forgotten father. However, both of these groups are elusive/hard to find in the diaspora. Some clans drop more names than other clans, if the names in question are not points of divergence. Many clans are older/younger than people think.

For those that don’t know what Maxamuud Saleebaan is. It is the biggest sub lineage of MJ accounting for at least 60% of the clan’s size. It is the genealogical equivalent of Sacad or Abgaal.
capsian 9/2/2022 7:43:00 AM

Okay,guys i'm sorry i don't understand more about distribution haplogroup E-V32 in tribes Somalis

is true subclade E-Y17859 is high distribution in tribe Darod

thanks
msukhalid 9/4/2022 11:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

So where did the myth that you guys are of Indian origin come from?

I think they mistook us for Ahmed Omar warsangeli who have haplogroup R
Mujahid Nur Marehan 9/5/2022 3:19:00 AM

I heard Suldaan Mohamud Cali Shire '' the warsangeli Suldaan '' was of Indian origin, we need to test the current Warsangeli Suldaan, whether he is positive for the Somali clade EV32 or not..
NetNomad 9/7/2022 12:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Okay,guys i'm sorry i don't understand more about distribution haplogroup E-V32 in tribes Somalis

is true subclade E-Y17859 is high distribution in tribe Darod

thanks

It's high in most of the various Somali clans, except for the Dir clan (high in T1), moderate in the Isaaq (both E and T present), and a Mahra origin clan called Arab Salah who are high in J1.

Mind you that Somali clans with different Y haplogroup frequencies generally have pretty much the same autosomal ancestry, even for instance in that Mahra origin clan with high J1.
NetNomad 9/7/2022 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I heard Suldaan Mohamud Cali Shire '' the warsangeli Suldaan '' was of Indian origin, we need to test the current Warsangeli Suldaan, whether he is positive for the Somali clade EV32 or not..

Warsangeli used to be the biggest and most influential Harti clan before ~1800. That's why they have some Asiatic origin sub-sub clans that came from Indian Ocean merchants who assimilated while this isn't the case in other Hartis.

Dhulbahante and Majeerteen overtook them in size in the last two centuries and a bit as they were more nomadic and less reliant on fishing and sea trade.

In Puntland I notice the clans who were fishermen in the last few centuries are much smaller demographically than the nomadic horde clans.
capsian 9/7/2022 1:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

It's high in most of the various Somali clans, except for the Dir clan (high in T1), moderate in the Isaaq (both E and T present), and a Mahra origin clan called Arab Salah who are high in J1.

Mind you that Somali clans with different Y haplogroup frequencies generally have pretty much the same autosomal ancestry, even for instance in that Mahra origin clan with high J1.

Thanks you for this information

but Mahra yemen or horn africa
NetNomad 9/7/2022 1:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Thanks you for this information

but Mahra yemen or horn africa

There's a paternal offshoot of Mahras living in Northeast Somalia. They are autosomally identical to the other Somalis near them who don't have this J1 lineage, nevertheless due to Somali society being very patriarchal they identify strongly with Mahras and Arabia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY172199/

I have a close cousin with this lineage, but lol he scored 100% Somali on 23andMe. Not much Arab. The Mahras in Yemen and Oman don't, they are autosomally Arabian with a few Swahili-like outliers, not much Somali in them.
capsian 9/7/2022 1:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

There's a paternal offshoot of Mahras living in Northeast Somalia. They are autosomally identical to the other Somalis near them who don't have this J1 lineage, nevertheless due to Somali society being very patriarchal they identify strongly with Mahras and Arabia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY172199/

I have a close cousin with this lineage, but lol he scored 100% Somali on 23andMe. Not much Arab. The Mahras in Yemen and Oman don't, they are autosomally Arabian with a few Swahili-like outliers, not much Somali in them.

Okay so they are mahra yemen

because Mahra horn africa mostly are E-M35
Garaacad 9/7/2022 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

Warsangeli used to be the biggest and most influential Harti clan before ~1800. That's why they have some Asiatic origin sub-sub clans that came from Indian Ocean merchants who assimilated while this isn't the case in other Hartis.

Dhulbahante and Majeerteen overtook them in size in the last two centuries and a bit as they were more nomadic and less reliant on fishing and sea trade.

In Puntland I notice the clans who were fishermen in the last few centuries are much smaller demographically than the nomadic horde clans.

I don't think fishing caused the huge demographic gap between Harti subclans. 95% of Puntland/Eastern Somalilands' populations were nomadic before the 1700s-1800s.

All Harti subclans started around the same size then, for some reason, the patriarchs of smaller Harti subclans had a relatively small number of descendants for 1-4 generations. This happened because of uncontrollable external factors.

It was a lottery, IMO. Back in the day, even having 4 sons that survived till adulthood was considered impressive. And, of course, those 4 sons wouldn't have counted for much, unless they had 4 + sons of their own.

That's why my abtirsi includes men who had 7 sons and men who only had 1-3 sons at almost every level.
drobbah 9/7/2022 10:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

Okay so they are mahra yemen

because Mahra horn africa mostly are E-M35

They are Mahras who have been assimilated in North Eastern Somali society for centuries (their ancestors were mentioned in the Futuh Al Habasha fighting alongside Somali clans and other Ethiopian muslim ethnic groups against the Abysinnian armies).There are also other Somalis from various occupational castes with older pre-Islamic J1 Arabian lineages and they are also purely autosomally Somali https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y178104/
NetNomad 9/13/2022 4:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I don't think fishing caused the huge demographic gap between Harti subclans. 95% of Puntland/Eastern Somalilands' populations were nomadic before the 1700s-1800s.

All Harti subclans started around the same size then, for some reason, the patriarchs of smaller Harti subclans had a relatively small number of descendants for 1-4 generations. This happened because of uncontrollable external factors.

It was a lottery, IMO. Back in the day, even having 4 sons that survived till adulthood was considered impressive. And, of course, those 4 sons wouldn't have counted for much, unless they had 4 + sons of their own.

That's why my abtirsi includes men who had 7 sons and men who only had 1-3 sons at almost every level.

The Wabeeneeye clan had a long reliance on fishing, despite being almost as old as the Dhulbahante clan are only a fraction of the size. In some cases I don't think it was just bad luck, but also due to which method of lifestyle was used in pre-modern times.

The Ajuuraan used to be big in the late middle ages, but as they urbanised before most other Somalis now their clan is relatively small. Urbanisation has a negative impact on fertility, see for instance how the MENA-like urban Imperial Romans on the Italian peninsula got outbred by the more European-like rural Italian peninsula farmers after the collapse of Ancient Rome.
drobbah 9/19/2022 12:25:00 AM

I think my fellow Sacad Muuse clansman has finally uploaded on yfull, we share the same terminal clade on ftdna.Will be very interesting to see what tmrca yfull will give us.The Ciise Muuse sample is upstream of us

There is also a non Habar Awal E-BY155996 sample Somaliland from Toghdheer province that is upstream but he shares a recent clade with an Ashraaf from Marka.It seems E-BY155996 will be an Isaaq dominated haplogroup branch

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y219427/
drobbah 9/19/2022 11:26:00 PM

The Ashraaf sample and the Toghdheer (presumed Isaaq) share a tmrca of 1250 ybp (E-FT239164).Perhaps the Ashraaf sample ancestors was with the T-M70 Dirs as they ventured south as some of the Southern Dir with T-M70 split from the Northern T-M70 Dirs 1650 years ago.E-FT239164 might be the Dir E-V32 marker imo
Zack15 9/20/2022 5:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I think my fellow Sacad Muuse clansman has finally uploaded on yfull, we share the same terminal clade on ftdna.Will be very interesting to see what tmrca yfull will give us.The Ciise Muuse sample is upstream of us

There is also a non Habar Awal E-BY155996 sample Somaliland from Toghdheer province that is upstream but he shares a recent clade with an Ashraaf from Marka.It seems E-BY155996 will be an Isaaq dominated haplogroup branch

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y219427/

yeah..that's me. Finally got around to doing it lol
Garaacad 9/20/2022 7:08:00 AM

The Dir clan is a social construct. I wouldn't be surprised if Southern & Western Dir subclans turn out to be exclusively E-V32, instead of T-L208. In a clan as old as Dir there is probably more than one E-V32 founder effect. It'll be interesting to see whether Quranyow and other Dir frontier clans belong to non-E-Y18629 subclades.
Monk307 9/20/2022 11:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The Dir clan is a social construct. I wouldn't be surprised if Southern & Western Dir subclans turn out to be exclusively E-V32, instead of T-L208. In a clan as old as Dir there is probably more than one E-V32 founder effect. It'll be interesting to see whether Quranyow and other Dir frontier clans belong to non-E-Y18629 subclades.

YFull's age estimation in determining age estimation of anything less than 1k years is speculative. It uses two main steps in estimating age which are used to determine subclades. The first step is derived using known and novel SNP's ([Bad Link]). They then use a 5 step criteria to estimate the most correct SNP's. The second step is making a tentative estimation assuming a mutation rate of around 144.41 years.

Since Novel SNP's are one of the main factors in age estimation, the only problem is that *generally* speaking, it's quality isn't strong enough. If the same person does the test again, novel SNP's could easily change.

The website itself states: "If a customer submits a second sample to YFull for analysis, the application of the YFull rating system to the new sample could result in different quality ratings for the Novel SNPs." (https://www.yfull.com/faq/quality-ratings-of-snps/)

I wouldn't get too excited for any new subclade less than 1000 years old (TMRCA), as they are currently speculative based on the aforementioned. It uses assumed shared SNP's (tentative) along with actual shared SNP's.

For example, the 2 Awdal samples have 82 shared SNP's more than with any other group, but only 6 'assumed' shared SNP's. Due to the tentative assumed SNP's any subclade that is formed will include the assumed SNP's which were derived tentatively. That's just one example of why any subclade less than 1k years is pretty much not that reliable. Maybe in the future.
Garaacad 9/30/2022 1:09:00 PM

The E-Y227096 SNP is now available for testing on YSEQ. It took two days for my wish an SNP order to be completed. I’ll test for this SNP soon.
Farroukh 10/9/2022 12:35:00 PM

any subclade less than 1k years is pretty much not that reliable.

Less than ~700 years. Also keep in mind wide confidence interval (~150...350 years), which greatly varies the lifetime period of an ancestor.
Monk307 10/9/2022 6:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Less than ~700 years. Also keep in mind wide confidence interval (~150...350 years), which greatly varies the lifetime period of an ancestor.

Absolutely.

Y Full's methodology means that new subclades are only determined by any shared downstream SNP that is often corrected based on assumed SNP's. It gets murky with anything less than what you mentioned. Their methodology gives precedence to one shared downstream SNP than a combination of all known SNP's to determine relation which is very interesting. Their methodology also doesn't distinguish between a subclade which was determined by a huge number of SNP's and another subclade which was determined by just one SNP. It also uses one average set of mutation rates for everyone which is kinda ok when used over a large timescale but would create a huge margin of error if used in a short timescale unless they had a very huge data set. Their estimated ages of clades keep on changing drastically based on new samples and additions which is a consequence of lack of a real science that can correctly determine the real ages. Here is a good discussion on Y Full's methodology:

[Bad Link]

Another interesting thing I noticed is the 2 Djiboutian kits' downstream subclade T-Y207231 has an older estimated age (1085 ybp) than their upstream ancestral subclade T-FGC92488* (852 ybp). I searched Y Full's database to see if this was a regular thing but I couldn't find any other example of a downstream clade being older than its ancestral clade. I found it very strange. You can see it here for anyone who is interested. Just click info on the respective subclades (https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-FGC92488/).
Farroukh 10/10/2022 4:27:00 PM

Yfull has "father-son" nodes (with real age difference 36 years) with TMRCA=125 ybp. There is also a reverse example: a group with an ancestor born in 1636 has an TMRCA=200 ybp (instead of the expected 300 ybp).
Monk307 10/10/2022 7:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Yfull has "father-son" nodes (with real age difference 36 years) with TMRCA=125 ybp. There is also a reverse example: a group with an ancestor born in 1636 has an TMRCA=200 ybp (instead of the expected 300 ybp).

Fascinating. Their methodology is susceptible to very erroneous conclusions especially in their assigning of assumed SNP'S and age determination, but I suppose it's a consequence of a combination of a lack of real science and a strict adherence to a methodology that is at best confusing.

Interesting thing is for those interested. This is the academic paper that justifies YFull's methodology. Interesting to note that those who authored the paper are part owners of the company. This is the 2015 paper:

https://www.academia.edu/47220493/De...equencing_Data

Title: Defining a New Rate Constant for Y-Chromosome SNPs based on Full Sequencing Data (2015)

It's an interesting read because there is no conclusive way they can cancel out derived alleles (false positives).
Monk307 10/10/2022 9:08:00 PM

Interesting thread on FTDNA that sheds some light on the nature of deep clade testing where 2 brothers who did a Big Y test had a differentiation of 10 SNP's. This was his comment:

"To give you one example of how this would be With Big-Y 700 the number of SNPs that differ between me and my brother is ten(10).

So we are much closer than the calculation will estimate.

my Confirmed Haplogroup is R-Y41600

Here is the list of SNPs where we have differences with my brother

M367, L362, BY23717, BY26105, BY26109, BY26110, BY26111, RS79412108, BY42594, BY227927"

[Bad Link]

The thread and the discussion between some of those who have had done very deep clade testing are very interesting and just shows why it's still currently in the air and deep subclade testing is hypothetical and speculative at best in the current science available to us.
Riverman 10/10/2022 10:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Monk307

Interesting thread on FTDNA that sheds some light on the nature of deep clade testing where 2 brothers who did a Big Y test had a differentiation of 10 SNP's. This was his comment:

"To give you one example of how this would be With Big-Y 700 the number of SNPs that differ between me and my brother is ten(10).

So we are much closer than the calculation will estimate.

my Confirmed Haplogroup is R-Y41600

Here is the list of SNPs where we have differences with my brother

M367, L362, BY23717, BY26105, BY26109, BY26110, BY26111, RS79412108, BY42594, BY227927"

[Bad Link]

The thread and the discussion between some of those who have had done very deep clade testing are very interesting and just shows why it's still currently in the air and deep subclade testing is hypothetical and speculative at best in the current science available to us.

I got some more SNP's with a distant cousin initially, but it was corrected later. If that's not being corrected, its a truly extraordinary case or a case for a non-paternity event. 10 confirmed SNP's between brothers is not possible. Did they do an autosomal test also?
Monk307 10/11/2022 12:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Riverman

I got some more SNP's with a distant cousin initially, but it was corrected later. If that's not being corrected, its a truly extraordinary case or a case for a non-paternity event. 10 confirmed SNP's between brothers is not possible. Did they do an autosomal test also?

Regarding an autosomal test, they didn't mention on the thread and I didn't search their contributions on the forum to know the exact details. The even more confusing thing is that they do have a lot of commonalities in that they're shared subclade is R-Y41600. So even if it is a non paternity event, the fact that they didn't entertain the idea led me to think that they're confident that they share the same father. I'm assuming that would probably have been the first question they would have asked and would only question the veracity of their deep clade once that base was covered. But I'm just hypothesising.

I do think that anything younger than a 800ybp subclade and SNP's which are susceptible to being allele derived cannot be used to draw any conclusions at all. I'm currently looking for any other similar scenarios where extremely close family members had similar experiences.
Riverman 10/11/2022 12:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Monk307

Regarding an autosomal test, they didn't mention on the thread and I didn't search their contributions on the forum to know the exact details. The even more confusing thing is that they do have a lot of commonalities in that they're shared subclade is R-Y41600. So even if it is a non paternity event, the fact that they didn't entertain the idea led me to think that they're confident that they share the same father. I'm assuming that would probably have been the first question they would have asked and would only question the veracity of their deep clade once that base was covered. But I'm just hypothesising.

I do think that anything younger than a 800ybp subclade and SNP's which are susceptible to being allele derived cannot be used to draw any conclusions at all. I'm currently looking for any other similar scenarios where extremely close family members had similar experiences.

I looked at many cases on the Big Y tree and I never saw something like that. Don't forget, 10 SNP's equals about 800 yBP. That's absolutely impossible under normal circumstances for brothers. I have relatives from which I'm hundreds of years away and they are far from having that many different SNP's. If these would be brothers and the SNP's get confirmed that would be in the category of "wonders of nature" and record books. There is something really off here, and SNP's are usually very, very reliable.
Monk307 10/11/2022 2:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Riverman

I looked at many cases on the Big Y tree and I never saw something like that. Don't forget, 10 SNP's equals about 800 yBP. That's absolutely impossible under normal circumstances for brothers. I have relatives from which I'm hundreds of years away and they are far from having that many different SNP's. If these would be brothers and the SNP's get confirmed that would be in the category of "wonders of nature" and record books. There is something really off here, and SNP's are usually very, very reliable.

This is another very interesting case on the FTDNA forum where a user had 3 different SNP's from his father in their Big Y. They asked YFull what to expect if they both uploaded their results here and were told by YFull don't expect anything too especially novel:

"Pretty much, I've been told that if my Father sent in his BigY results, we'd probably get our own subclade, but we'd also see a MRCA estimate by Yfull in the 350-ish years timeframe. (3 different SNP's, and different STR's, although I don't think YFull honors 2 of the offending STR's in our case) Contacting them about the issue would in turn result in other different issues entering the mix. The obvious part of their formula is they're going to bake in a minimum of 60 years per mutation, the question from there is what the multiplier is going to be(and their secret ingredients for determining that value), but it's a safe bet it will be a value greater than 2."

Someone then asked him if there really were SNP negatives between him and his father:

"I've been meaning to ask you something. You've mentioned you and your father's Big Y results show 3 SNP difference. Have you checked the VCF of the kit missing the SNPs just in case they were low reads?"

The user reporting the discrepancy then replied:

"They're not missing, they're straight up mismatches.

Me:

Marker 1 Reference: A Genotype: G

Marker 2 Reference: G Genotype: C

Marker 3 Reference: T Genotype: G

My Father:

Marker 1 Reference: A Genotype: A

Marker 2 Reference: G Genotype: G

Marker 3 Reference: T Genotype: T"

I pretty much agree with his assertion here:

"Yfull is useful for many things, identifying very close family isn't one of them. They're not interested in anything that will challenge their age estimation models."

Here is the thread: [Bad Link]
Riverman 10/11/2022 2:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Monk307

This is another very interesting case on the FTDNA forum where a user had 3 different SNP's from his father in their Big Y. They asked YFull what to expect if they both uploaded their results here and were told by YFull don't expect anything too especially novel:

"Pretty much, I've been told that if my Father sent in his BigY results, we'd probably get our own subclade, but we'd also see a MRCA estimate by Yfull in the 350-ish years timeframe. (3 different SNP's, and different STR's, although I don't think YFull honors 2 of the offending STR's in our case) Contacting them about the issue would in turn result in other different issues entering the mix. The obvious part of their formula is they're going to bake in a minimum of 60 years per mutation, the question from there is what the multiplier is going to be(and their secret ingredients for determining that value), but it's a safe bet it will be a value greater than 2."

Someone then asked him if there really were SNP negatives between him and his father:

"I've been meaning to ask you something. You've mentioned you and your father's Big Y results show 3 SNP difference. Have you checked the VCF of the kit missing the SNPs just in case they were low reads?"

The user reporting the discrepancy then replied:

"They're not missing, they're straight up mismatches.

Me:

Marker 1 Reference: A Genotype: G

Marker 2 Reference: G Genotype: C

Marker 3 Reference: T Genotype: G

My Father:

Marker 1 Reference: A Genotype: A

Marker 2 Reference: G Genotype: G

Marker 3 Reference: T Genotype: T"

I pretty much agree with his assertion here:

"Yfull is useful for many things, identifying very close family isn't one of them. They're not interested in anything that will challenge their age estimation models."

Here is the thread: [Bad Link]

1-3 SNP's is not that extraordinary indeed, its rare, but it appears and it is known that it does. But mind you, 10 SNP's is a completely different league.
Monk307 10/11/2022 2:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Riverman

1-3 SNP's is not that extraordinary indeed, its rare, but it appears and it is known that it does. But mind you, 10 SNP's is a completely different league.

It would still be significant if they're not assumed SNP's, but more importantly uploading onto YFull would give a very very erroneous result for both of them in terms of their TMRCA. Which is why strong conclusions cannot be drawn into close relations of anything less than 800~ ybp unless the data set is very very large and even then the tests cannot mitigate false positives so there still would be significant errors
Garaacad 10/11/2022 4:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by Monk307

Fascinating. Their methodology is susceptible to very erroneous conclusions especially in their assigning of assumed SNP'S and age determination, but I suppose it's a consequence of a combination of a lack of real science and a strict adherence to a methodology that is at best confusing.

Interesting thing is for those interested. This is the academic paper that justifies YFull's methodology. Interesting to note that those who authored the paper are part owners of the company. This is the 2015 paper:

https://www.academia.edu/47220493/De...equencing_Data

Title: Defining a New Rate Constant for Y-Chromosome SNPs based on Full Sequencing Data (2015)

It's an interesting read because there is no conclusive way they can cancel out derived alleles (false positives).

Interestingly, we have a lot of new late/early medieval lineages, whose TMCRAs are way off, proving your point. For example, I count 15 names to Saleebaan (MJ sub division), the average name count being 16, but YFull gave the Saleebaan MJ samples a TMCRA of 800 ypb.

Hiraab Hawiyes count slightly more to their patriarch, but he lived 500-600 years ago. YFull gave two Hiraab samples a TMCRA of 950 ypb.

The TMCRA given to E-FT24258 is problematic. @NetNomad Harti was a great-grandson of Darod, not a direct son. So why is E-FT24258's TMCRA the same as E-Y362403 (Leelkase/Tanade) and E-Y272428 (Marehan/Sade).
Monk307 10/11/2022 5:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Interestingly, we have a lot of new late/early medieval lineages, whose TMCRAs are way off, proving your point. For example, I count 15 names to Saleebaan (MJ sub division), the average name count being 16, but YFull gave the Saleebaan MJ samples a TMCRA of 800 ypb.

Hiraab Hawiyes count slightly more to their patriarch, but he lived 500-600 years ago. YFull gave two Hiraab samples a TMCRA of 950 ypb.

The TMCRA given to E-FT24258 is problematic. @NetNomad Harti was a grandson of Darod, not a direct son. So why is E-FT24258's TMCRA the same as E-Y362403 (Leelkase/Tanade) and E-Y272428 (Marehan/Sade).

As a general rule, using YFull's methodology for determining the age of young Somali lineages will only prove to be confusing and sometimes completely erroneous.

No DNA company will admit this for obvious reasons but being able to determine a subclan in the Somali sense will be impossible and would lead to false conclusions, at least for now.
drobbah 10/23/2022 4:04:00 AM

An Oromo from Ethiopia has uploaded his sample on yfull and is even upstream of that once lonely Sool sample

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-CTS7146/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 10/23/2022 11:42:00 PM

We also have a new sample under E-Y18637*, does anyone know his sub clan?
drobbah 10/24/2022 2:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We also have a new sample under E-Y18637*, does anyone know his sub clan?

Probably one of the Madhibaan samples
Garaacad 11/6/2022 12:07:00 AM

After waiting for ages YSEQ finally marked my kit delivered today. I'll share my results as soon as I get them. But I'm gambling on a possible further split of E-Y227096. The MJ Cumar Maxamuud sample on YFull is 5 generations removed from my subclan. So there is a strong possibility that I'm positive for an unidentified SNP slightly upstream to E-Y227096 but downstream of E-BY217865.
NetNomad 11/8/2022 7:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

An Oromo from Ethiopia has uploaded his sample on yfull and is even upstream of that once lonely Sool sample

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-CTS7146/

Looks like he is basal to those Lake Victoria Kenyan men. Interested in the TMRCA. Lineage is likely East Cushitic rather than South Cushitic in origin in them.
Saeed 11/12/2022 4:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by diini95

I'm also Reer Aw Xasan I can't wait to see his results.

He got his result, it's still processing, but he's the new E-Y18629* sample.
diini95 11/12/2022 7:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

He got his result, it's still processing, but he's the new E-Y18629* sample.

Great news thanks I'm gonna check it out. i forgot to ask do you have more information about him? I'm reer aw Xasan and my sub clan is Reer aw Cilmi it would be great if you had more information about him.
Saeed 11/12/2022 8:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by diini95

Great news thanks I'm gonna check it out. i forgot to ask do you have more information about him? I'm reer aw Xasan and my sub clan is Reer aw Cilmi it would be great if you had more information about him.

He said he is also Reer aw Cilmi
diini95 11/12/2022 9:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

He said he is also Reer aw Cilmi

That's good. Me and him are very close can't wait until the process is done.
drobbah 11/12/2022 10:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

He got his result, it's still processing, but he's the new E-Y18629* sample.

Interesting, we have two Ashraaf results, this individual and the other one who is under an Isaaq dominated sub-clade.
NetNomad 11/12/2022 10:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting, we have two Ashraaf results, this individual and the other one who is under an Isaaq dominated sub-clade.

What region did this clan originate from? They seem to live all over Somali territories, but what was their origin point?
Garaacad 11/12/2022 10:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

What region did this clan originate from? They seem to live all over Somali territories, but what was their origin point?

Edit: Realised you were talking about the Ashraaf, not Reer Aw Hassan. I don't know much about the Ashraaf in general.

I know one Reer Aw Hassan guy. I think he may be the same individual @Saeed knows. Anyhow, he told me, Hasan Al Kuweyni's (forefather of the clan) mother was Marexaan. They have a similar origin story to Isaaq and Daarood. The one I know comes from Abaaleey, Hiiraan. Abaaleey is just some tuulo in Hiiraan, but you can also find them in Galbeed, Xamar, and other places.

Their origin point is supposedly Saylac, Awdal:

https://so.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reer_Aw_Xassan
drobbah 11/12/2022 11:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

What region did this clan originate from? They seem to live all over Somali territories, but what was their origin point?

The one that shares a 1250 ybp tmrca with a Toghdheer non-HA sample is from Marka
NetNomad 11/13/2022 1:19:00 AM

@Garaacad; @drobbah;

Yeah I meant the Asharaaf. I often mistake this clan for the Sheekhaal, but they are different I see. I hear of both of these clans being quite spread around with no strong regional base.
drobbah 11/13/2022 1:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by NetNomad

@Garaacad; @drobbah;

Yeah I meant the Asharaaf. I often mistake this clan for the Sheekhaal, but they are different I see. I hear of both of these clans being quite spread around with no strong regional base.

Ashraaf seem to be regular Somalis who took on this Shariif identity and took it more serious than clans like Isaaq & Darood.I wonder if they are just regular ethnic Somali scholarly families that created their own clan of sorts.Sheekhaal on the other hand get exotic haplogroups and are dominated by Maghrebi E-M81, paternally atleast they are foreign
diini95 11/15/2022 12:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting, we have two Ashraaf results, this individual and the other one who is under an Isaaq dominated sub-clade.

I saw the process was done for the reer aw xasan guy does it mean reer aw xasan is part of Isaaq clan?
drobbah 11/15/2022 4:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by diini95

I saw the process was done for the reer aw xasan guy does it mean reer aw xasan is part of Isaaq clan?

He belongs to a 2500 year old clade that’s probably shared with many Isaaqs.So far his closest paternal relative is an Isaaq from Toghdheer with a tmrca of 1250 ybp.Isaaq is an identity, Isaaqs will remain Isaaqs despite the many haplogroups and the same for the Ashraaf.Isaaq groups like the Habar Magaadle which makes up the majority of the Isaaq have identified the way we have for atleast 500 years minimum judging by the fact we were mentioned multiple times in the Futuh Al Habasha with sizeable numbers (brought 2000 infantry & 200 cavalry to the Imam’s side)
Garaacad 11/15/2022 4:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by diini95

I saw the process was done for the reer aw xasan guy does it mean reer aw xasan is part of Isaaq clan?

The Reer Aw Hassan guy doesn’t fall under E-BY155996. Drobbah is talking about the results of another Asharaaf from Marka. The Reer Aw Hassan guy stayed E-Y18629*. The asterisk means unknown afterward. It means he is positive for E-Y18629 but negative on all the known downstream subclades like E-Y18637, E-BY155996, etc.

I think he’s positive for an as-yet undiscovered Bronze Age subclade of E-Y18629. If you do a full Y test and upload to YFull.com both of you will be assigned a new downstream subclade.

Go visit this site on Black Friday:

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Basically, the proto-Reer Aw Hassan clan stands on its own for thousands of years.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/15/2022 5:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

He belongs to a 2500 year old clade that’s probably shared with many Isaaqs.So far his closest paternal relative is an Isaaq from Toghdheer with a tmrca of 1250 ybp.Isaaq is an identity, Isaaqs will remain Isaaqs despite the many haplogroups and the same for the Ashraaf.Isaaq groups like the Habar Magaadle which makes up the majority of the Isaaq have identified the way we have for atleast 500 years minimum judging by the fact we were mentioned multiple times in the Futuh Al Habasha with sizeable numbers (brought 2000 infantry & 200 cavalry to the Imam’s side)

I think the Habar Magaadi were Celi Marehan sub clan, they refer to themself as Habar Magaadi. and their Garaad's were my Marehan sub clan reer Warwaajecle . Here are quotes from Futux. The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Here is another quote referring to Habar Magaadi as a Marehan,

. M. Lewis states:[27]

The Marrehan and the Habr Magadle [Magādi] also play a very prominent role (...) The text refers to two Ahmads's with the nickname 'Left-handed'. One is regularly presented as 'Ahmad Guray, the Somali' (...) identified as Ahmad Guray Xuseyn, chief of the Habr Magadle. Another reference, however, appears to link the Habr Magadle with the Marrehan.
diini95 11/15/2022 6:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The Reer Aw Hassan guy doesn’t fall under E-BY155996. Drobbah is talking about the results of another Asharaaf from Marka. The Reer Aw Hassan guy stayed E-Y18629*. The asterisk means unknown afterward. It means he is positive for E-Y18629 but negative on all the known downstream subclades like E-Y18637, E-BY155996, etc.

I think he’s positive for an as-yet undiscovered Bronze Age subclade of E-Y18629. If you do a full Y test and upload to YFull.com both of you will be assigned a new downstream subclade.

Go visit this site on Black Friday:

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Basically, the proto-Reer Aw Hassan clan stands on its own for thousands of years.

I understand and it also makes sense that reer aw xasan stands on their own because whenever I tried to do my own research beyond Xasan Kaweyne I couldn't find any information and I couldn't find any conecction to other Somali clans. Unfortunately I won't be able to get Y test this year but I will definitely do it next year if I get the opportunity.
drobbah 11/15/2022 6:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I think the Habar Magaadi were Celi Marehan sub clan, they refer to themself as Habar Magaadi. and their Garaad's were my Marehan sub clan reer Warwaajecle . Here are quotes from Futux. The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.

Here is another quote referring to Habar Magaadi as a Marehan,

. M. Lewis states:[27]

The Marrehan and the Habr Magadle [Magādi] also play a very prominent role (...) The text refers to two Ahmads's with the nickname 'Left-handed'. One is regularly presented as 'Ahmad Guray, the Somali' (...) identified as Ahmad Guray Xuseyn, chief of the Habr Magadle. Another reference, however, appears to link the Habr Magadle with the Marrehan.

The Arabic text literally says Habar Magaadle, there’s no refuting this for those who want to deny Isaaq history.Also the Futuh mentions another clan called Habar Maqdi who’s leader was called Garaad Dawit, while Habar Magaadle’s leader (Axmed Gurey) who brought far more troops than the Habar Maqdi leader.You have zero evidence to back your claim
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/15/2022 7:24:00 PM

The Somali Adalite clans were historically referred to as Gadabursi, if you check out Gadabursi geneiology , they claim that the Adalite Amir's at the time of Futux were reer Ghadasid, people of Sid. Sid is a root word for Sade Darood. We also have Harari manuscripts which make mention of the Marehan sub clan Nur Ibn Mujahid was from or reer HodonBari Marehan, so clearly the Ghadasid Amir's were difently of Marehan origin.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 2:28:00 AM

There were 2 Ahmed’s. Ahmad Gurey Xuseyn, chief of the Habar Magaadle from the Isaaq clan and Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim al-Ghazi who was from the Sixaawle Karanle Hawiye clan. He was born in Hobat. Hobat lies in between Harar and Baabili and it’s referred to today as Erer Yare and Erer weyne. Till this day the Sixawle Karanle family lives there. Richard Burton even noted that the Somali tribes surrounding Harar are mainly from the Gadabuursi and Issa subclans of the Dir and the Karanle subclan of the Hawiye and that they represent the most native Somali clans in the region.

“The leading historian of Ethiopia, former Minister of Education, Arts & Culture and Dean of the National Library under Haile Selassie, Takla Sadiq Mekuria, devoted a 950-page book to the question of origin of Gragn and the identity of the Malassay in his rough monograph on the Gragn Wars (1973/1974) called "Ya Gragn Warara" (The Conquests of Gragn), in it he draws on the evidence from Arab Faqih Sihab Uddin and the chronicles of Sarsa-Dengel. Takla was also able to draw on the traditions of Harar as well as the translated works of Enrico Cerulli and Phillip Paulitchke. Through the mediation of Dagazmac Wargnah he interviewed Ahmed Ali Shami, the highest authoritative scholar of Harar that produced the concise manuscript history of Harar (in his Fatah Madinat Harar manuscript) for several European institutions and concludes Gragn's father was to come from the Hawiye (Somali clan) in the Ogaden; a genealogy of eight generations before Gragn is known in this tradition”.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 2:52:00 AM

[Bad Link]

This is what the Italians saw and noted in their booka. I will post the reference below as well as the imams family tree. Members of the imams family are still alive today.

Nel Karanle abbondano la gomma, la mirra, le penne di struzzo, l'avorio, l' incenso; – non coltivano il caffè che prendono dai Galla. Hanno cammelli, bovi, pecore e cavalli in quantità discreta. - Gli Hauja son superiori d'assai ai Somali dell'Ogaden per intelligenza e dignità, tendendo meno di questi alla menzogna. Son lavoratori e coraggiosi. Essi soli, capitanati da Omar-Abdi ebbero il fegato di far fronte ai 15 mila Hamara razziant nel- l' Ogaden.

In Karanle, gum, myrrh, ostrich feathers, ivory, incense abound; - they do not grow the coffee they get from the Galla. They have camels, oxen, sheep and horses in fair quantities. - The Hauja are superior to the Somalis of Ogaden in intelligence and dignity, tending less than these to lies. They are hardworking and brave. They alone, led by Omar-Abdi, had the guts to face the 15 thousand Hamara raiding the Ogaden.

SOURCE: Congresso geografico italiano - 1894
Garaacad 11/17/2022 3:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

[Bad Link]

This is what the Italians saw and noted in their booka. I will post the reference below as well as the imams family tree. Members of the imams family are still alive today.

Nel Karanle abbondano la gomma, la mirra, le penne di struzzo, l'avorio, l' incenso; – non coltivano il caffè che prendono dai Galla. Hanno cammelli, bovi, pecore e cavalli in quantità discreta. - Gli Hauja son superiori d'assai ai Somali dell'Ogaden per intelligenza e dignità, tendendo meno di questi alla menzogna. Son lavoratori e coraggiosi. Essi soli, capitanati da Omar-Abdi ebbero il fegato di far fronte ai 15 mila Hamara razziant nel- l' Ogaden.

In Karanle, gum, myrrh, ostrich feathers, ivory, incense abound; - they do not grow the coffee they get from the Galla. They have camels, oxen, sheep and horses in fair quantities. - The Hauja are superior to the Somalis of Ogaden in intelligence and dignity, tending less than these to lies. They are hardworking and brave. They alone, led by Omar-Abdi, had the guts to face the 15 thousand Hamara raiding the Ogaden.

SOURCE: Congresso geografico italiano - 1894

Are you a Sexawle Karanle yourself?
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 3:14:00 AM

Also the karanle family are the only family that can come together and celebrate the imam. Other clans can’t do that because they are not sure about the imam and his origin. There is no sense of unity or collective-ness among them.

Furthermore this Arab Somali girl who doesn’t have a clue about who or what Karanle means has done her own research. She uses Arabic sources and confirms the imams lineage.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 3:42:00 AM

@Garaacad No brother. I am Karanle's youngest son Wa'adeeri Karanle Hawiye.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/17/2022 3:56:00 AM

I heard reports that Mohamoud Ali Shire father was of Indian origin,if this is proven treu the current Warsangeli Sultanate will be a non EV32 carrier.

Perhaps @NatNomad can carry out DNA test on the Warsangeli Royal families.
Garaacad 11/17/2022 3:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad No brother. I am Wadere Karanle Hawiye.

So, is Wadere the real name of Murusade? Or was he Murursade's father? Have you ever considered taking a full Y test? The E-Y18629 Ytree has grown a lot, over the years, but there still aren't many Hawiyes on there.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/

Check out FamilyTreeDNA, Nebula, and Dantes' websites on Black Friday. Prices become super cheap then.

Quote me so I get the notification @Bulletproofpride. Click on the reply with a quote option.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 4:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

So, is Wadere the real name of Murusade? Or was he Murursade's father? Have you ever considered taking a full Y test? The E-Y18629 Ytree has grown a lot, over the years, but there still aren't many Hawiyes on there.

Check out FamilyTreeDNA, Nebula, and Dantes' websites on Black Friday. Prices become super cheap then.

Quote me so I get the notification @Bulletproofpride. Click on the reply with a quote option.

Yes you are right brother, there are still not enough Hawiye taking the full Y test. I will be taking it soon. When is it Black Friday again? How much will it cost?

Wa-Adeeri is the ancestor of Murusade. I heard there is one Murusade that plots closer to Majerteen than other Hawiye on the family tree. This is why I’m taking one my self.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/17/2022 4:58:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Nabula and Dante have already reduced their price by £50,its only £200 right now. I would purchase the kid right now many people will purchase the kid until black Friday, and the price won't come down. it would save you 5 months of waiting time.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 5:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride Nabula and Dante have already reduced their price by £50,its only £200 right now. I would purchase the kid right now many people will purchase the kid until black Friday, and the price won't come down. it would save you 5 months of waiting time.

So is this the cheapest it will ever be?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 5:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes you are right brother, there are still not enough Hawiye taking the full Y test. I will be taking it soon. When is it Black Friday again? How much will it cost?

Wa-Adeeri is the ancestor of Murusade. I heard there is one Murusade that plots closer to Majerteen than other Hawiye on the family tree. This is why I’m taking one my self.

Sorry for the late response.

Black Friday is on Friday the 25th of November. So, it is in 9 days' time. DanteLabs.com makes people wait 8-10 months at a time, but their price is the lowest at $180. Nebula will go down to $199, but the results come in 2-3 months. Nebula also has a $12.50 yearly subscription fee.

FamilyTreeDNA is expensive and will take weeks to mark your kit received. So, personally, I would go with Nebula or DanteLabs.com.

DanteLabs.com is running a sale right now. But it will take a long time to get results.

DNA never changes so I would just save up for all of this.
drobbah 11/17/2022 5:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

The Somali Adalite clans were historically referred to as Gadabursi, if you check out Gadabursi geneiology , they claim that the Adalite Amir's at the time of Futux were reer Ghadasid, people of Sid. Sid is a root word for Sade Darood. We also have Harari manuscripts which make mention of the Marehan sub clan Nur Ibn Mujahid was from or reer HodonBari Marehan, so clearly the Ghadasid Amir's were difently of Marehan origin.

More unsubstantiated claims
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 5:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Sorry for the late response.

Black Friday is on Friday the 25th of November. So, it is in 9 days' time. DanteLabs.com makes people wait 8-10 months at a time, but their price is the lowest at $180. Nebula will go down to $199, but the results come in 2-3 months. Nebula also has a $12.50 yearly subscription fee.

FamilyTreeDNA is expensive and will take weeks to mark your kit received. So, personally, I would go with Nebula or DanteLabs.com.

DanteLabs.com is running a sale right now. But it will take a long time to get results.

DNA never changes so I would just save up for all of this.

I am ready to pay now but 7-8 months is long. Should I go with Nebula in this case? Should I wait till Black Friday or will the prices stay the same till the end of Black Friday?

I want my results quick for the cheapest possible price.
capsian 11/17/2022 5:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Sorry for the late response.

Black Friday is on Friday the 25th of November. So, it is in 9 days' time. DanteLabs.com makes people wait 8-10 months at a time, but their price is the lowest at $180. Nebula will go down to $199, but the results come in 2-3 months. Nebula also has a $12.50 yearly subscription fee.

FamilyTreeDNA is expensive and will take weeks to mark your kit received. So, personally, I would go with Nebula or DanteLabs.com.

DanteLabs.com is running a sale right now. But it will take a long time to get results.

DNA never changes so I would just save up for all of this.

I thinks $199 in nebula just if you ordered Lifetime
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/17/2022 5:58:00 AM

I wanted to opload my results on G25,,if I sent them an email will they complete the process for me?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 5:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I am ready to pay now but 7-8 months is long. Should I go with Nebula in this case? Should I wait till Black Friday or will the prices stay the same till the end of Black Friday?

I want my results quick for the cheapest possible price.

The price right now is $249 on Nebula's website. The price on Black Friday will go down to $199 plus the subscription fee. The $199 price tag will only be on Friday the 25th of November. But IMO there isn't much of a difference between $249 and $199 if you want to pay now.

Here is Nebula's website:

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

I recommend following this subreddit linked above.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/17/2022 6:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I am ready to pay now but 7-8 months is long. Should I go with Nebula in this case? Should I wait till Black Friday or will the prices stay the same till the end of Black Friday?

I want my results quick for the cheapest possible price.

Go for Nabula right now. My murusade friend bought Nabula kid on black Friday. He was waiting well over 4, months and he paid £200 on black Friday with Nabula. If you purchase Nabula you might get your results in less than 2 months.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 6:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Go for Nabula right now. My murusade friend bought Nabula kid on black Friday. He was waiting well over 4, months and he paid £200 on black Friday with Nabula. If you purchase Nabula you might get your results in less than 2 months.

I see, so if I pay now I will pay slightly more but will get it quicker than waiting for Black Friday when it’s a bit cheaper but will wait slightly longer?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/17/2022 6:12:00 AM

@ Bulletproofpride correct.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@ Bulletproofpride correct.

Do I go for the Deep Whole Genome Sequencing $199? I live in the UK.
Garaacad 11/17/2022 6:21:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Yes but the price will change at the checkout.
Garaacad 11/17/2022 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Do I go for the Deep Whole Genome Sequencing $199? I live in the UK.

Change the Nebula Explore™ Reporting Membership from Lifetime to yearly. The price will change from $474 to $249.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 6:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@Bulletproofpride Yes but the price will change at the checkout.

You are right, it became $474. When will it be $199?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 6:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Change the Nebula Explore™ Reporting Membership from Lifetime to yearly. The price will change from $474 to $249.

Refer to this post. It will go down from $249 to $199 on the 25/11/2022. If you want to pay now follow the instructions above.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You are right, it became $474. When will it be $199?
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 6:36:00 AM

Oh yes it changed to $249. But it says 12.49 per month. I thought it was yearly?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 6:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Oh yes it changed to $249. But it says 12.49 per month. I thought it was yearly?

Yeah, but you only get charged when you get your results. At the checkout, you only pay $249. It says yearly but it's monthly. Don't worry though you'll get your results within 2-3 months.

You can cancel after you get your results.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 6:43:00 AM

Oh I see. So I pay $249 now and should get my results within 3 months time. After that my subscription fee of 12.49 per months will start. I can then cancel the monthly subscription?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 6:54:00 AM

@Bulletprooftpride

Yes, my Thank you on your post meant yes.
Bulletproofpride 11/17/2022 7:17:00 AM

I just bought it now. How long will I wait for it to reach my house?

So guys, what can I expect from this. Do I only get my full Y or do I get mtdna as well?

Does it break down my ancestry for me as well, like 20% Natufian, 10% Mota, 40% Nilotic etc?
Garaacad 11/17/2022 7:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I just bought it now. How long will I wait for it to reach my house?

Usually within 2 weeks. I can’t give an exact date. @Saeed has already gone through Nebula and is based in the UK. You can DM him as he would know more than me.
Garaacad 11/17/2022 7:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I just bought it now. How long will I wait for it to reach my house?

So guys, what can I expect from this. Do I only get my full Y or do I get mtdna as well?

Does it break down my ancestry for me as well, like 20% Natufian, 10% Mota, 40% Nilotic etc?

Watch this YouTube video:

https://youtu.be/AtTtjBTGFkc
Saeed 11/17/2022 12:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I just bought it now. How long will I wait for it to reach my house?

So guys, what can I expect from this. Do I only get my full Y or do I get mtdna as well?

Does it break down my ancestry for me as well, like 20% Natufian, 10% Mota, 40% Nilotic etc?

I can't remember how long it takes but should be less than two weeks.

You get both YDNA and MTDNA.
Garaacad 11/22/2022 4:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes you are right brother, there are still not enough Hawiye taking the full Y test. I will be taking it soon. When is it Black Friday again? How much will it cost?

Wa-Adeeri is the ancestor of Murusade. I heard there is one Murusade that plots closer to Majerteen than other Hawiye on the family tree. This is why I’m taking one my self.

I have several theories that explain that Murursade guy's result. The first one is that he is descended from a reer Mudug Daarood, possibly Liibaangashe or Awrtable, that is related to the MJ clan outside of the time limits Daarood traditional genealogy sets (900 years ago). I am leaning toward this theory. It would explain the TMCRA. The second theory is that there is a break in the chain between Hiraab and his known male line ancestor Maxamuud “Dame” Gorgaarte. But we would need the results of Silcis and Wadalaan to confirm or debunk this theory. The YFull Hawiye samples are Hiraab (Abgaal and Habar Gidir). And finally, the last theory is that there is a break in the chain between Murursade and his known male line ancestor Wadaadeeri Karanle.

So your results wouldn’t really confirm or debunk these theories except for the first one. We need the results of older Hawiyes.

All of this is just speculation on my part. I don’t mean to offend anyone. So sorry in advance if you take this post the wrong way. Allah knows best.
Bulletproofpride 11/23/2022 3:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I have several theories that explain that Murursade guy's result. The first one is that he is descended from a reer Mudug Daarood, possibly Liibaangashe or Awrtable, that is related to the MJ clan outside of the time limits Daarood traditional genealogy sets (900 years ago). I am leaning toward this theory. It would explain the TMCRA. The second theory is that there is a break in the chain between Hiraab and his known male line ancestor Maxamuud “Dame” Gorgaarte. But we would need the results of Silcis and Wadalaan to confirm or debunk this theory. The YFull Hawiye samples are Hiraab (Abgaal and Habar Gidir). And finally, the last theory is that there is a break in the chain between Murursade and his known male line ancestor Wadaadeeri Karanle.

So your results wouldn’t really confirm or debunk these theories except for the first one. We need the results of older Hawiyes.

All of this is just speculation on my part. I don’t mean to offend anyone. So sorry in advance if you take this post the wrong way. Allah knows best.

You can’t believe how excited I am to see my results. Do we have any other karanle on Yfull or FTDNA?

So if we go with traditions I should be plotting near the Hiiraab samples right, since they are the only Hawiye we have other than the Murusade. If I do happen to fall next to the hiiraab samples than that Murusade is just an assimilated proto-Darood.

My order is on the way. What if I’m not E-V32 at all? What if I’m T? If that is the case I will never take clans and tribes seriously.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/23/2022 9:10:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride are you Karanle from Italian Somalia or are you from Hararghe Ethiopia? So far two individuals from Karanle tested positive for haplogroup T, one was Gidir sub clan of Karanle , I can't ramber which sub clan the other Karanle was you can find them on somali spot under the culture and history section.
Bulletproofpride 11/23/2022 9:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride are you Karanle from Italian Somalia or are you from Hararghe Ethiopia? So far two individuals from Karanle tested positive for haplogroup T, one was Gidir sub clan of Karanle , I can't ramber which sub clan the other Karanle was you can find them on somali spot under the culture and history section.

Brother I am Murusade from Somalia. I heard of those T karanle. I assume they are assimilated into the Karanle tribe. That region in Ethiopia where the Dir and Karanle are has a lot of T. When did T enter Somalia? I heard it’s from Arabia.
Bulletproofpride 11/23/2022 9:31:00 AM

@mujahid, has your Israfeel Sabti Murusade revealed his results? I can see that you was encouraging that sixaawle Karanle guy to take his Yfull. I wish more Karanle could take it so we could have a Hawiye framework to work on at least. We need at least 10 members including Gugundhabe, Xaskul etc
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/23/2022 9:36:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Murursade split into two sub clade's Sabti and Faraculus, the murursade that belongs to haplogroup E-By8081 is from Israfiil Sabti, are you from the Faraculus sub clan? I heard rumours that the murursade ugaas sub clan might be lost Marehan sub clan called reer Faraax ugaas Guleed, which sub clan of murursade are you?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/23/2022 9:47:00 AM

Haplogroup T is from zagros mountains of Iran that might be considered greater middle East but definetly not Arabia. However they might have migrated through Arabia hence why they are in Horn of Africa.
Bulletproofpride 11/24/2022 1:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride Murursade split into two sub clade's Sabti and Faraculus, the murursade that belongs to haplogroup E-By8081 is from Israfiil Sabti, are you from the Faraculus sub clan? I heard rumours that the murursade ugaas sub clan might be lost Marehan sub clan called reer Faraax ugaas Guleed, which sub clan of murursade are you?

I’m Israfeel Abakar my self. I will debunk or solidify this theory. What subclade are the forculus? This is hilarious.
Bulletproofpride 11/24/2022 1:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Haplogroup T is from zagros mountains of Iran that might be considered greater middle East but definetly not Arabia. However they might have migrated through Arabia hence why they are in Horn of Africa.

I know this. I was wondering when was it introduced into the horn?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/24/2022 5:12:00 AM

Bulletproofpride haplogroup T entered Somali paninsuala in different wave of migrations over thousands of years, some entered via Egypt, Yamen than through Eritrea and maybe some from the Indian sub continent.
Bulletproofpride 11/24/2022 7:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Bulletproofpride haplogroup T entered Somali paninsuala in different wave of migrations over thousands of years, some entered via Egypt, Yamen than through Eritrea and maybe some from the Indian sub continent.

Yeh I doubt they came from India. Specially the branch that Somalis have. It seems to have entered the horn via Yemen through Zeila. It could be from Egypt too.
Garaacad 11/25/2022 1:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You can’t believe how excited I am to see my results. Do we have any other karanle on Yfull or FTDNA?

So if we go with traditions I should be plotting near the Hiiraab samples right, since they are the only Hawiye we have other than the Murusade. If I do happen to fall next to the hiiraab samples than that Murusade is just an assimilated proto-Darood.

My order is on the way. What if I’m not E-V32 at all? What if I’m T? If that is the case I will never take clans and tribes seriously.

You're probably not T-L208. Hawiye Ts do exist but it isn't the normative lineage.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@mujahid, has your Israfeel Sabti Murusade revealed his results? I can see that you was encouraging that sixaawle Karanle guy to take his Yfull. I wish more Karanle could take it so we could have a Hawiye framework to work on at least. We need at least 10 members including Gugundhabe, Xaskul etc

Xaskul results would be better than Sixawle Karanle. I don't think we can rely on Gugundhabe results since they have a weird relationship with Gaaljecel.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh I doubt they came from India. Specially the branch that Somalis have. It seems to have entered the horn via Yemen through Zeila. It could be from Egypt too.

There's almost no chance it came from Egypt. It came from Arabia.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/25/2022 3:35:00 AM

Yeah @Bulletproofpride will most likely be EV32, he is around 12 generation related cousin of my friend. @Bulletproofpride if you could get a close relatives of of the murursade ugaas tested , that would be great, I'm geussing Faraculus are your ugaas sub clans, I personally scaptkcall about such claims by some Marehan's.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 4:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

You're probably not T-L208. Hawiye Ts do exist but it isn't the normative lineage.

Xaskul results would be better than Sixawle Karanle. I don't think we can rely on Gugundhabe results since they have a weird relationship with Gaaljecel.

There's almost no chance it came from Egypt. It came from Arabia.

What’s wrong with sixaawle?

There is a new Somali sample on Yfull from hiiraan. It’s under a separate branch. Any one know what clan he is? Could he be xawaadle? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629*/
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 5:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Yeah @Bulletproofpride will most likely be EV32, he is around 12 generation related cousin of my friend. @Bulletproofpride if you could get a close relatives of of the murursade ugaas tested , that would be great, I'm geussing Faraculus are your ugaas sub clans, I personally scaptkcall about such claims by some Marehan's.

What subclade do marexaan brothers fall in to?

Do we have only 1 Murusade on the tree?

Can you please break down which clans fall under which subclade? I’m trying to prepare for the inevitable.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/25/2022 5:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What’s wrong with sixaawle?

There is a new Somali sample on Yfull from hiiraan. It’s under a separate branch. Any one know what clan he is? Could he be xawaadle? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629*/

That HI sample is Hassan Al Kuwayni sheekhaal, a girl Sexawle on Somspot her father t ook test and turned out to be Haplogroup T, not EV32. Tribes umbrella are quite messy alott of tribal alliances had taken place in the past.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 5:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

That HI sample is Hassan Al Kuwayni sheekhaal, a girl Sexawle on Somspot her father t ook test and turned out to be Haplogroup T, not EV32. Tribes umbrella are quite messy alott of tribal alliances had taken place in the past.

The hiiraan sample is sheekhaal?
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 5:33:00 AM

I’m encouraging my xawaadle cousin to take these test.
Garaacad 11/25/2022 5:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What’s wrong with sixaawle?

There is a new Somali sample on Yfull from hiiraan. It’s under a separate branch. Any one know what clan he is? Could he be xawaadle? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629*/

I’ve seen some Karanles, mainly from the Galbeed, come out with T-L208. Xaskul are safer to test as they aren’t as likely to carry T-L208.

He isn’t Xawaadle, he is reer Aw Hassan.
Garaacad 11/25/2022 5:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What subclade do marexaan brothers fall in to?

Do we have only 1 Murusade on the tree?

Can you please break down which clans fall under which subclade? I’m trying to prepare for the inevitable.

E-Y18629 currently spilts into three subclades: E-BY155996, E-Y163928, and E-Y18637. The Hiiraan sample is positive for the E-Y18629 Y mutation but negative on all the known downstream subclades.

E-BY155996 = the proto-Isaaq E clade

E-Y163928 = the proto Daarood E clade (depends on who you ask).

E-Y18637 = the ancient father of Raxanweyn, Hiiraabs, MJs, Ugaaslabe, some Gabooyes, some Habar Jeclos, and depending on who you ask Ogaden.

Basically, the Hiiraab YFull samples are anciently related to a RX (TMCRA dated to 2700-1800 years ago).

E-Y18637 is the most common subclade of E-Y18629.

The E-BY8100 samples descend from ancient Somalis. The subclade isn’t currently linked to any clan.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I’ve seen some Karanles, mainly from the Galbeed, come out with T-L208. Xaskul are safer to test as they aren’t as likely to carry T-L208.

He isn’t Xawaadle, he is reer Aw Hassan.

Where do I upload my results on, Yfull or FTDNA? How much does it cost?
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

E-Y18629 currently spilts into three subclades: E-BY155996, E-Y163928, and E-Y18637. The Hiiraan sample is positive for the E-Y18629 Y mutation but negative on all the known downstream subclades.

E-BY155996 = the proto-Isaaq E clade

E-Y163928 = the proto Daarood E clade (depends on who you ask).

E-Y18637 = the ancient father of Raxanweyn, Hiiraabs, MJs, Ugaaslabe, some Gabooyes, some Habar Jeclos, and depending on who you ask Ogaden.

Basically, the Hiiraab YFull samples are anciently related to a RX (TMCRA dated to 2700-1800 years ago).

E-Y18637 is the most common subclade of E-Y18629.

The E-BY8100 samples descend from ancient Somalis. The subclade isn’t currently linked to any clan.

I assume this is the Raxanweyne/hiiraab clade? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/. Where does the Murusade fall under? How many hawiye are on the Yfull tree?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Where do I upload my results on, Yfull or FTDNA? How much does it cost?

You initially pay nothing. You pay around $50 to keep your sample up on YFull. I don’t know how uploading to FTDNA works, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

You initially pay nothing. You pay around $50 to keep your sample up on YFull. I don’t know how uploading to FTDNA works, but I wouldn’t recommend it.

Thank you.

Why do you not recommend ftdna? I saw this spreadsheet with Murusade, xawaadle, HG, Harti Abgaal grouped together. Someone posted it on Somalispot. I was wondering are these samples the same as the ones on Yfull?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 6:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I assume this is the Raxanweyne/hiiraab clade? https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/. Where does the Murusade fall under? How many hawiye are on the Yfull tree?

He used to be under E-BY8081*. YFull removed his sample for not paying the fee. I’m not sure. Low resolution Y-STR testing predicts some other Hawiyes like Xawaadle may fall under it.

You should remember though Y-STR testing isn’t reliable. The YFull Murusade sample’s third cousin is also in that FTDNA cluster with the Xawaadle.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:35:00 AM

Garaacad, there are 2 guys ( I assume they abgal, HG) grouped together and they are joined by a 3rd guy from galguduud and they then join the bay bakool sample. Who is the galguduud guy?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Garaacad, there are 2 guys ( I assume they abgal, HG) grouped together and they are joined by a 3rd guy from galguduud and they then join the bay bakool sample. Who is the galguduud guy?

The Galguduud sample is Saeed. He is Cayr. The clan identity of id:YF064431 is not known. id:YF064431 goes by Omaar on this forum. I think he is some type of Abgaal.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:42:00 AM

How do you prevent low resolution? Is nebula reliable?
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 6:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The Galguduud sample is Saeed. He is Cayr. The clan identity of id:YF064431 is not known. id:YF064431 goes by Omaar on this forum. I think he is some type of Abgaal.

what about YF094679?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 6:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

How do you prevent low resolution? Is nebula reliable?

37 Y-STRs are noisy. 37 Y-STR testing is what the Hawiyes on FTDNA have gone through. It doesn't prove recent links. A while ago, a Garre was grouped with Majeerteen samples. He was later removed when more data came in. It is only useful to Europeans. Also, the Ugaaslabe and Ogaden YFull samples were grouped with MJs on FTDNA. And later through Y-SNP testing, it was found out, they belonged to a completely different subclade.

You are doing Y-SNP testing through Nebula. It is more reliable and the results are set in stone.
Garaacad 11/25/2022 6:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

what about YF094679?

Harti Abgaal.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 7:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

37 Y-STRs are noisy. 37 Y-STR testing is what the Hawiyes on FTDNA have gone through. It doesn't prove recent links. A while ago, a Garre was grouped with Majeerteen samples. He was later removed when more data came in. It is only useful to Europeans. Also, the Ugaaslabe and Ogaden YFull samples were grouped with MJs on FTDNA. And later through Y-SNP testing, it was found out, they belonged to a completely different subclade.

You are doing Y-SNP testing through Nebula. It is more reliable and the results are set in stone.

I see so that spreadsheet I saw on somalispot is unreliable. Do the Yfull tree accept only snp results or do they take 37 str as well?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 7:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I see so that spreadsheet I saw on somalispot is unreliable. Do the Yfull tree accept only snp results or do they take 37 str as well?

You can only upload to YFull.com with an SNP test. You can’t upload with just a Y-STR test. The only upside to FTDNA is their large database.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 7:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Harti Abgaal.

That means the abgaal and the HG guy link up 2600 years ago? How does that work? Hiiraab is not that old. Am I reading it wrong? Are there any other hawiye on the tree?
Garaacad 11/25/2022 7:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That means the abgaal and the HG guy link up 2600 years ago? How does that work? Hiiraab is not that old. Am I reading it wrong? Are there any other hawiye on the tree?

No, don’t look at the formation date. Look at the TMCRA (time to most common recent ancestor). E-FT77328’s TMCRA is dated to 950 years ago. So Hiraab was born 950 years ago. YFull’s TMCRAs tend to be off by about 200-300 years though. So more Hiraab samples are needed for a more realistic TMCRA subclade dating.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 7:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

You can only upload to YFull.com with an SNP test. You can’t upload with just a Y-STR test. The only upside to FTDNA is their large database.

So Yfull is the real deal despite having smaller database?
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 7:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, don’t look at the formation date. Look at the TMCRA (time to most common recent ancestor). E-FT77328’s TMCRA is dated to 950 years ago. So Hiraab was born 950 years ago. YFull’s TMCRAs tend to be off by about 200-300 years though. So more Hiraab samples are needed for a more realistic TMCRA subclade dating.

I see, thanks it makes all sense
Garaacad 11/25/2022 7:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So Yfull is the real deal despite having smaller database?

Just to clarify YFull.com is for whole genome sequencing. You can do Y-SNP testing on other platforms like YSEQ and maybe FTDNA but you also can’t upload to YFull. With single or double SNP testing you’re only testing for specific mutations on the Y-Chromosome, not uncovering new ones.

Just correcting myself.

@Bulletproofpride

Yes, because they give out TMCRAs.
Bulletproofpride 11/25/2022 8:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So Yfull is the real deal despite having smaller database?

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Just to clarify YFull.com is for whole genome sequencing. You can do Y-SNP testing on other platforms like YSEQ and maybe FTDNA but you also can’t upload to YFull. With single or double SNP testing you’re only testing for specific mutations on the Y-Chromosome, not uncovering new ones.

Just correcting myself.

@Bulletproofpride

Yes, because they give out TMCRAs.

you can’t upload to Yfull if you upload on ftdna?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/25/2022 1:12:00 PM

After Nabula has finished sequencing your results you simply sent an email to yfull with your Nabula loqin details and they will opload your results onto yfull in 24hours.

Here is there email

yfullcom@gmail.com

My name is......

. I have received my nebula genome sequencing results. Can you please help me to upload it on Yfull, I need assistance, thank you.

Nebula login email:

Nabula Password:
Bulletproofpride 11/26/2022 12:16:00 AM

So guys, the Mj are not on the Darood (E-Y163928) branch. Why is this the case you think? Also do we currently have only 3 hawiye (2 abgaal 1 HG) on the tree? Also how many Karanle became T? Is it only that 1 sixaawle sample?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/26/2022 1:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So guys, the Mj are not on the Darood (E-Y163928) branch. Why is this the case you think? Also do we currently have only 3 hawiye (2 abgaal 1 HG) on the tree? Also how many Karanle became T? Is it only that 1 sixaawle sample?

I think the Hawiye will form two unrelated sub clade's for ovdr 2700 years, one group will join the murursade sub clade and the other Hawiye group will join the two Abgal and Cayr sample. We can't be sure about the legit Hawiye lineage. The fact that the Cayr and Abgal sample have clustered could simply be due to those Cayr and Abgal sub lineages sharing close geographical proximity. By the way I don't think Ayaanle Cayr are originally of southern Hawiyes origin, they expanded from Galbeed beyond Shilabo, some have tested positive for haplogroup T -208, Cayr could be of the legendary Bucur bu Cayr fairy tale lol
drobbah 11/26/2022 3:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I think the Hawiye will form two unrelated sub clade's for ovdr 2700 years, one group will join the murursade sub clade and the other Hawiye group will join the two Abgal and Cayr sample. We can't be sure about the legit Hawiye lineage. The fact that the Cayr and Abgal sample have clustered could simply be due to those Cayr and Abgal sub lineages sharing close geographical proximity. By the way I don't think Ayaanle Cayr are originally of southern Hawiyes origin, they expanded from Galbeed beyond Shilabo, some have tested positive for haplogroup T -208, Cayr could be of the legendary Bucur bu Cayr fairy tale lol

Hiraab has clearly formed a medieval clade
Bulletproofpride 11/26/2022 3:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I think the Hawiye will form two unrelated sub clade's for ovdr 2700 years, one group will join the murursade sub clade and the other Hawiye group will join the two Abgal and Cayr sample. We can't be sure about the legit Hawiye lineage. The fact that the Cayr and Abgal sample have clustered could simply be due to those Cayr and Abgal sub lineages sharing close geographical proximity. By the way I don't think Ayaanle Cayr are originally of southern Hawiyes origin, they expanded from Galbeed beyond Shilabo, some have tested positive for haplogroup T -208, Cayr could be of the legendary Bucur bu Cayr fairy tale lol

Lol marehan brothers have so many funny legends about Hawiye. The original Hawiye subclade can only be determined once we have more samples. Hawiye’s grave is currently being safe guarded by his eldest son Karanle in lafo hawiye. Karanle is buried right next to him. He was laid to rest by his younger brother Xaskul. This is why I believe we need more Karanle, Xaskul results to determine the Hawiye clade. That one Murusade could be an outlier. My results will determine where Murusade cluster. Ceyr was meant to cluster with Abgaal. They are literally from Hiiraab and these 3 samples we have confirmed it. Let’s wait and see. I should have my results around February/March.
Garaacad 11/26/2022 5:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So guys, the Mj are not on the Darood (E-Y163928) branch. Why is this the case you think? Also do we currently have only 3 hawiye (2 abgaal 1 HG) on the tree? Also how many Karanle became T? Is it only that 1 sixaawle sample?

To understand MJ results you've got to understand our abtiris. 99% of MJs descend from Aawe who lived 700-750 years ago. Aawe was likely born several generations before or after Daarood. An alliance was formed with the Wabeeneeye clan later on. Maxamed Harti (Majeerteen) splits into Wabeeneeye and Aawe. The Wabeeneeyes got E-Y163928. This is why I mentioned a possible break between Hiraab and his ancestor Maxamuud Gorgaarte. Long-forgotten breaks can fundamentally affect an abtiris.

So, Aawe is the reason why MJ clans are closely related. But there is also no relation to Daaroods.

Hiiraabs are meant to be closely related. So their results aren't too surprising. There isn't a YFull Sixaawle Karanle sample. I've only seen a couple of T-L208 carrying Karanles on 23andme. But the community hasn't been widely tested.
Bulletproofpride 11/26/2022 5:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

To understand MJ results you've got to understand our abtiris. 99% of MJs descend from Aawe who lived 700-750 years ago. Aawe was likely born several generations before or after Daarood. An alliance was formed with the Wabeeneeye clan later on. Maxamed Harti (Majeerteen) splits into Wabeeneeye and Aawe. The Wabeeneeyes got E-Y163928. This is why I mentioned a possible break between Hiraab and his ancestor Maxamuud Gorgaarte. Long-forgotten breaks can fundamentally affect an abtiris.

So, Aawe is the reason why MJ clans are closely related. But there is also no relation to Daaroods.

Hiiraabs are meant to be closely related. So their results aren't too surprising. There isn't a YFull Sixaawle Karanle sample. I've only seen a couple of T-L208 carrying Karanles on 23andme. But the community hasn't been widely tested.

I’m guessing Y dna T came in through the bab el mandab and got assimilated by the native clans of that region like Dir, Karanle, Isaaq etc hence why it’s so high in those regions. It probably came with the spread of Islam. I could be wrong.

Anyways, if I get the same results as the previous Murusade than it means our nearest relatives are the MJ brothers and the Hawiye clade would be still unknown till we get more Hawiye samples. However if I happen to plot near the hiiraab samples than we actually got the Hawiye tree confirmed. I’m so excited about this.
farjanomar 11/26/2022 7:52:00 AM

Hello guys, its been awhile since i last posted, been busy.
farjanomar 11/26/2022 8:20:00 AM

I do have some very interesting Somali result, although only Y37 marker test. We have the first Somali E-M293 to do Y STR Marker test. He is Gaaljecel.

This is not Surprising, Coz they are said to be sibling Clan to Degodia, which were the first to be E-M293 (only 23andme tests). The sample is MK79025.

I used Haplogroup predictor site. it said 99% V1515 which is Parent Clade of E-M293.

So what do you think guys? What other Southern Clans might also be pre-Samaale E-M293? I personally would like to see the Digil Clans tested especially

Tunni, Dabare and others.
farjanomar 11/26/2022 9:24:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride

Good to hear you have ordered a big Y test. As rule of thumb for some us here is 3-4 unrelated big y samples to have a good sense of A Clan ancestor Sub-clade.

So will highly advise, if possible, to get more Clan members get tested. nevertheless as they say 1 test is better than no test, many many times

It looks like Hiraab has formed a Sub-clade. My hypothesis is Hawiye majority will be under E-BY192465..

Also don't worry Joining FTDNA, Its at Yfull that all big Y testers end up at the end.
farjanomar 11/26/2022 9:27:00 AM

@Garaacad

Did you get your YSEQ result yet?
Garaacad 11/26/2022 7:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Garaacad

Did you get your YSEQ result yet?

No, unfortunately it’s a really new SNP. So they have to order primers for it. I’m not expecting the results to come anytime soon.
capsian 11/26/2022 7:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, unfortunately it’s a really new SNP. So they have to order primers for it. I’m not expecting the results to come anytime soon.

Maybe tuesday or thursday
Garaacad 11/26/2022 11:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I do have some very interesting Somali result, although only Y37 marker test. We have the first Somali E-M293 to do Y STR Marker test. He is Gaaljecel.

This is not Surprising, Coz they are said to be sibling Clan to Degodia, which were the first to be E-M293 (only 23andme tests). The sample is MK79025.

I used Haplogroup predictor site. it said 99% V1515 which is Parent Clade of E-M293.

So what do you think guys? What other Southern Clans might also be pre-Samaale E-M293? I personally would like to see the Digil Clans tested especially

Tunni, Dabare and others.

This Gaaljecel result is pretty surprising. Ask him whether he's from Jubbaland or Hiiraan. I think we'll get a Quranyow Dir E-M293 sample. E-M293 seems to be restricted to Somalis from Jubbaland/NFD.

There's a pattern now in most E-M293-positive Somalis. They all come from Jubbaland/NFD: MX Hawrarsame, Murule, Ajuuraan, Degodiye, and now the Gaaljecel. Until we see E-M293 in Somalis, not from Jubbaland these guys got their E-M293 from Oromos or other Somaloid groups.
Bulletproofpride 11/27/2022 1:28:00 AM

E-m293 has been found among Khoisan people. The parent clade E-V1515 has old branches in Arabia. E-V6 has been found in Siwa Oasis Berbers. This is why I don’t fall for that OOA theory. I believe mankind including their domesticated animals dispersed from the Middle East.
farjanomar 11/27/2022 3:45:00 AM

@Garaacad:

Its well established that Degodiya/Gaaljecel and Cowrmale(Non-Warsangali section) are Gardheere Samaale aka same ancestor,so its not surprising.

About Geography: Most Somali Clans originate from the North. Degodiye and Galjecel moved from Hiiraan, most of Gaaljecel still live there and some

Degodiye.

Who else did you see carry E-M293? On my relative list i have 2 degodiye and 1 recently Mareexan( Did not ask the sub-clan) maybe Hawrarsame or Habaryaqub. Nuur Mujahid could know better.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/27/2022 4:06:00 AM

@farjanomar I have ordered 23andme this week I might end up on your relative list.

I'm not sure which sub clan the Marehan E-293 individual is but he is probibally from western Gedo ask him which sub clan he is from It makes alott of sense for some Marehan sub clans to test positive for E-M293 as Dogadia border border Baladxawo to the north into Ethiopia. Talxe have lived in Gedo for long time from Ceel waaq, all the way to Kismaayo. Reer hassan from Afmadow in lower Juba all the way to Nagayle Ethiopia. But most other Marehan sub clans have arrived quite recently in Gedo. However there was mention of one Marehan sub clan that arrived Gedo in the 16th Century by a Italian explorer who crossed the Juba in the 16th Century, he discribed them as Marehani.
Saeed 11/27/2022 4:42:00 AM

I have 5 E-M293 matches on 23andMe, I only know the clan of one of them so far.

He said he is from this clan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMurule
drobbah 11/27/2022 4:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I have 5 E-M293 matches on 23andMe, I only know the clan of one of them so far.

He said he is from this clan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMurule

It’s a Hawiye subclan
farjanomar 11/27/2022 8:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I have 5 E-M293 matches on 23andMe, I only know the clan of one of them so far.

He said he is from this clan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMurule

This is getting very interesting. Degodiye, Gaaljecel and now Murile.

@drobar. In lower Shabelle Region. Murile's Parent Clan Jiidle is also under Digil iyo mirifle Confederation.

Digil

Geledi

Begedi

Dabare

Tunni

Jiddu

Garre
farjanomar 11/27/2022 8:34:00 AM

@Nur Mujahid.

I will try to ask him, its not easy, most don't message back. This second time, i will reverse my question kkk.

It will go: Are You Reer Diini Walaal? kkk
Saeed 11/27/2022 9:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

This is getting very interesting. Degodiye, Gaaljecel and now Murile.

@drobar. In lower Shabelle Region. Murile's Parent Clan Jiidle is also under Digil iyo mirifle Confederation.

Digil

Geledi

Begedi

Dabare

Tunni

Jiddu

Garre

This is what he has as his ancestor birthplace on the right, Oromia is the birthplace of his paternal grandparents and he has 2.3% Ethiopian.

[Bad Link]
gamajoba123 11/28/2022 6:21:00 AM

Let me say gaaljecel are not e-m293 they are e-v32
capsian 11/28/2022 6:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It’s a Hawiye subclan

Like the great majority of Somali clans, the Hawiye trace their ancestry to Aqil ibn Abi Talib (c. 580 – 670 or 683),[5] a cousin of the prophet Muhammad (c. 570 – 632) and an older brother of Ali ibn Abi Talib (c. 600 – 661) and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib (c. 590 – 629).[6] They trace their lineage to Aqil through Samaale (the source of the name 'Somali'), the purported forefather of the northern pastoralist clans such as the Hawiye, the Dir, and –matrilineally through the Dir– the Isaq and the Darod.[5] Although these genealogical claims are historically untenable, they do reflect the longstanding cultural contacts between Somalia (especially, though not exclusively, its most northern part Somaliland) and Southern Arabia.[7]

What do you think ?
Saeed 11/28/2022 6:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Like the great majority of Somali clans, the Hawiye trace their ancestry to Aqil ibn Abi Talib (c. 580 – 670 or 683),[5] a cousin of the prophet Muhammad (c. 570 – 632) and an older brother of Ali ibn Abi Talib (c. 600 – 661) and Ja'far ibn Abi Talib (c. 590 – 629).[6] They trace their lineage to Aqil through Samaale (the source of the name 'Somali'), the purported forefather of the northern pastoralist clans such as the Hawiye, the Dir, and –matrilineally through the Dir– the Isaq and the Darod.[5] Although these genealogical claims are historically untenable, they do reflect the longstanding cultural contacts between Somalia (especially, though not exclusively, its most northern part Somaliland) and Southern Arabia.[7]

What do you think ?

That is true but it is proven wrong through these tests, Hawiye have nothing to do with Arabia.
capsian 11/28/2022 6:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

That is true but it is proven wrong through these tests, Hawiye have nothing to do with Arabia.

Yeah because this subclade is rare in Arabian Peninsula
Garaacad 11/28/2022 7:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by gamajoba123

Let me say gaaljecel are not e-m293 they are e-v32

Are you Gaaljecel? And how do you know. Have you taken 23andme yourself?

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Garaacad:

Its well established that Degodiya/Gaaljecel and Cowrmale(Non-Warsangali section) are Gardheere Samaale aka same ancestor,so its not surprising.

About Geography: Most Somali Clans originate from the North. Degodiye and Galjecel moved from Hiiraan, most of Gaaljecel still live there and some

Degodiye.

Who else did you see carry E-M293? On my relative list i have 2 degodiye and 1 recently Mareexan( Did not ask the sub-clan) maybe Hawrarsame or Habaryaqub. Nuur Mujahid could know better.

You see this is the problem. Other clans living in the region don't have E-M293. Oromos controlled this region for centuries so foreign male gene flow is likely.

Somaloid groups also live in Jubbaland/NFD.

Pre-Samaales like the Ajuuraan will be E-Y18629*, IMO.
gamajoba123 11/28/2022 7:24:00 AM

No majority of gaaljecel are e-v32 especially from the Hirshabelle region they may be an outlier in the jubbas, however majority are E-v32
farjanomar 11/28/2022 8:26:00 AM

@gmajoba123

We are just doing predictions bro. The samples are not enough like the Degodiye. How many V32 Gaaljecel have you seen?
Garaacad 11/28/2022 9:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by gamajoba123

No majority of gaaljecel are e-v32 especially from the Hirshabelle region they may be an outlier in the jubbas, however majority are E-v32

I was talking about you. Have you done 23andme? How do you know you’re E-V32?

Do a full Y test with Nebula. You can discover your clan’s E-V32 subclade.

Go through my interactions with @Bulletproofpride.

A deep Y test kit on Nebula.org is currently priced at $175.

https://portal.nebula.org/cart
Bulletproofpride 11/30/2022 12:37:00 AM

Ajuuraan are Samaale not pre samaale. They should technically be majority E-v32. Even the core Oromo should be E-v32. I believe E-m923 are remnants of the southern Cushitic people that got absorbed into Oromo/Samaale groups just like how T got absorbed. The Horn of Africa is complicated. Afar and saho have a completely different Y profile. E-V32 is also found all over Sudan/Ethiopia/ Arabia. I think the original Cushitic pastoralist were people with diverse Y chromosomes. It also seems they came in the horn starting from 3000 BC in different waves. I just don’t know how to make sense of all this.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/30/2022 2:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Ajuuraan are Samaale not pre samaale. They should technically be majority E-v32. Even the core Oromo should be E-v32. I believe E-m923 are remnants of the southern Cushitic people that got absorbed into Oromo/Samaale groups just like how T got absorbed. The Horn of Africa is complicated. Afar and saho have a completely different Y profile. E-V32 is also found all over Sudan/Ethiopia/ Arabia. I think the original Cushitic pastoralist were people with diverse Y chromosomes. It also seems they came in the horn starting from 3000 BC in different waves. I just don’t know how to make sense of all this.

I think most Ajuran in Hiiraan, the Juba and NFD, will be of Boran EV32 sub clade and also South Cushitic E-M293cariers, mind you most Rahanweyn's tested so far don't even belong to the EV32 sub clade. I think most southward expansion the Somali EV32 lineages expanded before the 17th Century was middle Shabellla and parts of Hiiraan. The lands beyond that were dominated by non maxaa tiri speakers , who carried a non EV32 Somali clade , I think the only exception were the Gardheere Samaale whspoke the maxaa tiri dialect.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 11/30/2022 3:15:00 AM

Easter Cushites moved into the Horn, after the green Sahara ended around five thousand years ago. Thats also when Beb el Madeb crossing to Euro Asia was cut off and Africa became an island, Somalis wondered unecessarly around North Africa for thousands of years, if they had stayed around Beb el mandeb they would have conquered Euro Asia just like the CF Y lineage.

If I was the CT lineage tribal chiefdom we would have conquered most of Euro Asia by now, instead we were hunting and gathering during the day and dancing around the fire in the evening. Also do you guys think that the early humans out of Africa practiced paternal tribalism, as we have clear evidence population groups Migrating and abandoning their communities with regards to their Y haplogroups.?

For example we see haplogroup F abandoned shorthly after Bab El Mandeb and Persian gulf crossing, which was a shorth distance.

Here is a video explaining the green Sahara.

https://youtu.be/ZQP-7BPvvq0
Bulletproofpride 11/30/2022 6:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Easter Cushites moved into the Horn, after the green Sahara ended around five thousand years ago. Thats also when Beb el Madeb crossing to Euro Asia was cut off and Africa became an island, Somalis wondered unecessarly around North Africa for thousands of years, if they had stayed around Beb el mandeb they would have conquered Euro Asia just like the CF Y lineage.

If I was the CT lineage tribal chiefdom we would have conquered most of Euro Asia by now, instead we were hunting and gathering during the day and dancing around the fire in the evening. Also do you guys think that the early humans out of Africa practiced paternal tribalism, as we have clear evidence population groups Migrating and abandoning their communities with regards to their Y haplogroups.?

For example we see haplogroup F abandoned shorthly after Bab El Mandeb and Persian gulf crossing, which was a shorth distance.

Here is a video explaining the green Sahara.

https://youtu.be/ZQP-7BPvvq0

Bro humanity dispersed from the Fertile Crescent not Africa.

[Bad Link]

This location on the map is exactly where Nuh (as) and the ark landed as stated in the Quran.

وَقِيلَ يَـٰٓأَرْضُ ٱبْلَعِى مَآءَكِ وَيَـٰسَمَآءُ أَقْلِعِى وَغِيضَ ٱلْمَآءُ وَقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ وَٱسْتَوَتْ عَلَى ٱلْجُودِىِّ ۖ وَقِيلَ بُعْدًا لِّلْقَوْمِ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِينَ

It was commanded, "O Earth! Swallow up thy waters, and O Sky, cease thy rain!" Accordingly the waters sank into the Earth. The decree was carried out; and the Ark rested upon Mount Judi. And it was proclaimed: "Gone are the workers of iniquity.

Mount Judi is in south eastern turkey/Iraq/Syria border. Basically modern Kurdistan. When you place the dispersal of humanity in the Middle East everything then starts to make sense from languages to civilisation to agriculture etc. Africa is a dead end.
Garaacad 12/1/2022 1:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Bro humanity dispersed from the Fertile Crescent not Africa.

[Bad Link]

This location on the map is exactly where Nuh (as) and the ark landed as stated in the Quran.

وَقِيلَ يَـٰٓأَرْضُ ٱبْلَعِى مَآءَكِ وَيَـٰسَمَآءُ أَقْلِعِى وَغِيضَ ٱلْمَآءُ وَقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ وَٱسْتَوَتْ عَلَى ٱلْجُودِىِّ ۖ وَقِيلَ بُعْدًا لِّلْقَوْمِ ٱلظَّـٰلِمِينَ

It was commanded, "O Earth! Swallow up thy waters, and O Sky, cease thy rain!" Accordingly the waters sank into the Earth. The decree was carried out; and the Ark rested upon Mount Judi. And it was proclaimed: "Gone are the workers of iniquity.

Mount Judi is in south eastern turkey/Iraq/Syria border. Basically modern Kurdistan. When you place the dispersal of humanity in the Middle East everything then starts to make sense from languages to civilisation to agriculture etc. Africa is a dead end.

Slightly offtopic, but I want to ask you something. @Mujahid Nur Marehan gave me some background info on that E-BY8081 Murusade and I wanted to run it by you. He supposedly comes from an 8th-generation reer called reer dhalay. And the name Sacad is in his abtiris.

I think @Mujahid Nur Marehan is butchering the name of the reer. They live in Ceelbuur. Any ideas on what reer @Mujahid Nur Marehan is referring to?

Also, what is the Murusade view regarding reer Wehliye being MJ originally? And Reer Amaanle as well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herei_Gassim_Wehelie

There clearly is some truth to these myths.

You can send me a private message if you want...
Garaacad 12/1/2022 2:12:00 AM

@Mujahid Nur Marehan

Do you want to correct any of the info you gave me?
Bulletproofpride 12/1/2022 3:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Slightly offtopic, but I want to ask you something. @Mujahid Nur Marehan gave me some background info on that E-BY8081 Murusade and I wanted to run it by you. He supposedly comes from an 8th-generation reer called reer dhalay. And the name Sacad is in his abtiris.

I think @Mujahid Nur Marehan is butchering the name of the reer. They live in Ceelbuur. Any ideas on what reer @Mujahid Nur Marehan is referring to?

Also, what is the Murusade view regarding reer Wehliye being MJ originally? And Reer Amaanle as well?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herei_Gassim_Wehelie

There clearly is some truth to these myths.

You can send me a private message if you want...

Dhaaley and Sacad are my ancestor. It’s Dhaaley, Fiidshey, shimbir etc.

Weheliye family is well known. They are Weheliye Codweyne abakar brother of Israfeel Abakar. They are brothers. The Wikipedia article however says abdalla sabti which is a complete different branch. Either I misheard my aunty and he is abdalla sabti or the Wikipedia article is wrong and is indeed codweyne Abakar sabti. Abdalla and Abakar are Sabti and thus brothers. I just had a lengthy conversation with my aunty. Apparently the name amaanle happens to be a common Somali name and it’s carried by both Mj and Murusade. In fact Mj members and Murusade members came together sometime in the 20th century to confirm whether the weheliye family is assimilated mj into murusade clan and it happened to be not true. If it was true then the Murusade weheliye would have claimed MJ long time ago but it did not happen. It just happened to be a coincidence just like how you have warsengeli abgal and darood.

There are however marexaan that live amongst the Abakar known as Gondhaale. Reer waa sugey qeyli xirsi. They claim to be Codweye Abakar Sabti though. The Murusade and marexaan however know that they are marexaan and that they got assimilated. They basically know that they are marexaan but decided to live with Murusade. The story goes that a young marexaan nomad got lost and was far from home. Murusade took him in and raised the boy and he married into the Murusade clan and had children. He is called qeyli because he was shouting as boy in the wilderness looking for people to help him.

I’ve come to known right now through my aunty that my grandfather, and great grandfather and great great grandfather all had marexaan and leelkase mothers and wives. These women are proper Darood however and not assimilated whatsoever.

The E-BY8081 that the Murusade guy had seems to be a separate branch. It doesn’t fall under any mj branch. The tmrca is also way too old for Murusade or MJ. Also the israfeel sample indicates that the entire Abakar branch is E-BY8081. Abakar is the largest Murusade sub clan. I find it difficult to believe that the largest clan is assimilated. My abtirsi goes into Karanle hawiye via 40+ names with precise accuracy.

Let’s just see what I will get. I could get E-BY8081 too since I’m also israfeel. The weheliye family is not from the israfeel Abakar branch but the codweyne Abakar branch or the abdalla sabti branch just to clarify.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/1/2022 7:00:00 AM

The biggest Mareexaan sub clan is called Amaan'reer. The Amaanle sub clans were perhaps all under one Saltanate, as I read before the Majerteen Saltanate there was a Amaan'reer Saltanate in Bari.

Isxaaq Gaashireedle

Beesha Isxaaq gaashireedle ayaa usii kala baxda 4ta ilma Ammaan reer.

1-Maxamed Ammaanreer (Wagardhac)

2-Hawraarsame Ammaanreer

3-Talxe Ammaanreer

4-Raadamiir Ammaanreer

Hawrarsame Amareer

Majerteen Saltanate Wikipedia

Before the famous Majeerteen Sultanate there was the Sultanate of Amaanle (Abdirahman Awe) which was overthrown and overtaken by Osman Mahamuud who became the subsequent King and Sultan
Garaacad 12/1/2022 7:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Dhaaley and Sacad are my ancestor. It’s Dhaaley, Fiidshey, shimbir etc.

Weheliye family is well known. They are Weheliye Codweyne abakar brother of Israfeel Abakar. They are brothers. The Wikipedia article however says abdalla sabti which is a complete different branch. Either I misheard my aunty and he is abdalla sabti or the Wikipedia article is wrong and is indeed codweyne Abakar sabti. Abdalla and Abakar are Sabti and thus brothers. I just had a lengthy conversation with my aunty. Apparently the name amaanle happens to be a common Somali name and it’s carried by both Mj and Murusade. In fact Mj members and Murusade members came together sometime in the 20th century to confirm whether the weheliye family is assimilated mj into murusade clan and it happened to be not true. If it was true then the Murusade weheliye would have claimed MJ long time ago but it did not happen. It just happened to be a coincidence just like how you have warsengeli abgal and darood.

There are however marexaan that live amongst the Abakar known as Gondhaale. Reer waa sugey qeyli xirsi. They claim to be Codweye Abakar Sabti though. The Murusade and marexaan however know that they are marexaan and that they got assimilated. They basically know that they are marexaan but decided to live with Murusade. The story goes that a young marexaan nomad got lost and was far from home. Murusade took him in and raised the boy and he married into the Murusade clan and had children. He is called qeyli because he was shouting as boy in the wilderness looking for people to help him.

I’ve come to known right now through my aunty that my grandfather, and great grandfather and great great grandfather all had marexaan and leelkase mothers and wives. These women are proper Darood however and not assimilated whatsoever.

The E-BY8081 that the Murusade guy had seems to be a separate branch. It doesn’t fall under any mj branch. The tmrca is also way too old for Murusade or MJ. Also the israfeel sample indicates that the entire Abakar branch is E-BY8081. Abakar is the largest Murusade sub clan. I find it difficult to believe that the largest clan is assimilated. My abtirsi goes into Karanle hawiye via 40+ names with precise accuracy.

Let’s just see what I will get. I could get E-BY8081 too since I’m also israfeel. The weheliye family is not from the israfeel Abakar branch but the codweyne Abakar branch or the abdalla sabti branch just to clarify.

Thank you for clarifying. Isn't reer Dhaaley an 8th-generation reer? If Daaley is your ancestor wouldn't that make you guys close?
Garaacad 12/1/2022 7:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

The biggest Mareexaan sub clan is called Amaan'reer. The Amaanle sub clans were perhaps all under one Saltanate, as I read before the Majerteen Saltanate there was a Amaan'reer Saltanate in Bari.

Isxaaq Gaashireedle

Beesha Isxaaq gaashireedle ayaa usii kala baxda 4ta ilma Ammaan reer.

1-Maxamed Ammaanreer (Wagardhac)

2-Hawraarsame Ammaanreer

3-Talxe Ammaanreer

4-Raadamiir Ammaanreer

Hawrarsame Amareer

Majeerteen Sultanates

Main articles: Majeerteen Sultanate, Sultanate of Hobyo, and Somali aristocratic and court titles

Majeerteen ruler Ali Yusuf Kenadid, 2nd Sultan of the Sultanate of Hobyo.

Before the famous Majeerteen Sultanate there was the Sultanate of Amaanle (Abdirahman Awe) which was overthrown and overtaken by Osman Mahamuud

Your theory falls apart easily. Cumar "Sorore / Nabidoor" was the contemporary of Amaanreer: http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=332 http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=223

Amaanle was the brother of Noolays. We meet up at the same Oday (Cumar). Their abtiris is well-known and isn't in doubt.

And everyone knows Leelkase/Tanade dominated Boqortooyadii Daarood. You only had 1 guy. Amaanle were MJ Boqors as in they led the clan. Nothing more, nothing less.
Bulletproofpride 12/1/2022 7:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Thank you for clarifying. Isn't reer Dhaaley an 8th-generation reer? If Daaley is your ancestor wouldn't that make you guys close?

Yes indeed we are really really close lol. It seems I will be in the same subclade as him. We need to test different Murusade branches to see if the E-BY8081 is the real murusade clade. Then afterwards we need other Karanle branches from Ethiopia to confirm the real Hawiye clade. We need Xaskul and Gugandhabe as well both from Ethiopia and Somalia. It could be that Hawiye falls under E-BY8081.

Find out what family he is from.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/1/2022 7:44:00 AM

https://youtu.be/xrxiV6Qh7PE
Garaacad 12/1/2022 8:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes indeed we are really really close lol. It seems I will be in the same subclade as him. We need to test different Murusade branches to see if the E-BY8081 is the real murusade clade. Then afterwards we need other Karanle branches from Ethiopia to confirm the real Hawiye clade. We need Xaskul and Gugandhabe as well both from Ethiopia and Somalia. It could be that Hawiye falls under E-BY8081.

Find out what family he is from.

Ask @Mujahid Nur Marehan. I'm not in contact with the old Murusade sample. I got all my information from @Mujahid Nur Marehan. His paternal third cousin is testing through FTDNA and will upload to YFull.com. When he uploads both of you will be assigned a new subclade. At that point, you can DM him on YFull.

Your results will confirm he isn't an outlier. You don't need to test everyone to notice obvious patterns. We only need 1 Gugandhabe and 1 Xaskul sample. The Xaskul and Gugandhabe samples will confirm your abtiris leading up to Hawiye.

We can assume Oday Forculus and Sabti were definitely related. My understanding is Murusade is actually a fairly young clan.

You are probably ancestral to E-BY8081 carrying MJs. Since you count + 40 names to Karanle, Hawiye. MJs at a maximum count 29-31 names to Aawe the earliest confirmed MJ ancestor.
Bulletproofpride 12/1/2022 8:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Ask @Mujahid Nur Marehan. I'm not in contact with the old Murusade sample. I got all my information from @Mujahid Nur Marehan. His paternal third cousin is going through FTDNA and will upload to YFull.com. When he uploads both of you will be assigned a new subclade. At that point, you can DM him on YFull.

Your results will confirm he isn't an outlier. You don't need to test everyone to notice obvious patterns. We only need 1 Gugandhabe and 1 Xaskul sample. The Xaskul and Gugandhabe samples will confirm your abtiris leading up to Hawiye.

We can assume Oday Forculus and Sabti were definitely related. My understanding is Murusade is actually a fairly young clan.

You are probably ancestral to E-BY8081 carrying MJs. Since you count + 40 names to Karanle, Hawiye. MJs at a maximum count 29-31 names to Aawe the earliest confirmed MJ ancestor.

Was the previous Murusade sample ancestral to E-BY8081? Do we have forculus samples? Yes you are right, the Xaskul and Gugundhabe will confirm the Hawiye clade. Odi Murusade is as old as odi Hiiraab. Murusade existed before the existence of Mudulood, Habar Gidir, Duduble etc.

If the Hawiye clade turns out to be ancestral to E-BY8081 then wouldn’t that make MJ Hawiye lol?
Garaacad 12/1/2022 9:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Was the previous Murusade sample ancestral to E-BY8081? Do we have forculus samples? Yes you are right, the Xaskul and Gugundhabe will confirm the Hawiye clade. Odi Murusade is as old as odi Hiiraab. Murusade existed before the existence of Mudulood, Habar Gidir, Duduble etc.

If the Hawiye clade turns out to be ancestral to E-BY8081 then wouldn’t that make MJ Hawiye lol?

No, not really. He was E-BY8081*. The asterisk (*) means unknown afterward. So he was positive for E-BY8081 but negative on everything downstream. He stayed E-BY8081* but if he got a new subclade it would have been ancestral to the rest. The exact relationship isn't known, but going off abtiris, the Murusade samples should be ancestral. So were Murusade's ancestors up to Waadeeri Karanle single born as in they had no brothers.

We have no Forculus samples. I was talking about the old Murusade from your reer.

We can't really speculate on the exact genetic relationship MJs and Murusades have because of the lack of samples. For example, we could meet at Hawiye, Waadeeri Karanle, Karanle, Aawe, someone unknown, etc.

Yeah lol, it feels weird to think about. But seriously yes I would technically be Hawiye. Not sure how people back home would take it.
Bulletproofpride 12/1/2022 10:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, not really. He was E-BY8081*. The asterisk (*) means unknown afterward. So he was positive for E-BY8081 but negative on everything downstream. He stayed E-BY8081* but if he got a new subclade it would have been ancestral to the rest. The exact relationship isn't known, but going off abtiris, the Murusade samples should be ancestral. So were Murusade's ancestors up to Waadeeri Karanle single born as in they had no brothers.

We have no Forculus samples. I was talking about the old Murusade from your reer.

We can't really speculate on the exact genetic relationship MJs and Murusades have because of the lack of samples. For example, we could meet at Hawiye, Waadeeri Karanle, Karanle, Aawe, someone unknown, etc.

Yeah lol, it feels weird to think about. But seriously yes I would technically be Hawiye. Not sure how people back home would take it.

The old Murusade sample and I are both Sabti. We need Forculus sample to confirm if the E-BY8081 is the Murusade clade. But if we get E-BY8081 Gugundhabe or Xaskul then that would not just confirm that my clade to be the Murusade clade but it would confirm the Hawiye clade 100%.

Could E-18632 be the Aawe clade? All mj branches connect to this clade. If my theory is correct then Aawe and Hawiye are brothers. This is of course if we can confirm that Hawiye falls under E-BY8081 and parallel to E-18632.

I haven’t heard of any WaAdeeri siblings. They could be alive or their descendants haven’t survived the passage of time. We do have yearly meetings with the other 3 Karanle branches (Gidir, Sixaawle, Kaariye). Some of them even live with us in Mogadishu and Galmudug. There are also Murusade that live with them in Ethiopia like Baale, Baabili etc. We are very close despite the sheer distance between us.

I don’t think elders of Somalia will believe us. The younger generation however will take this Y chromosomes abtirsi seriously. Just give it a few decades. Maybe 20 years and watch how the young sophisticated Somalis will identify with Haplogroups lol.
Garaacad 12/1/2022 11:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The old Murusade sample and I are both Sabti. We need Forculus sample to confirm if the E-BY8081 is the Murusade clade. But if we get E-BY8081 Gugundhabe or Xaskul then that would not just confirm that my clade to be the Murusade clade but it would confirm the Hawiye clade 100%.

Could E-18632 be the Aawe clade? All mj branches connect to this clade. If my theory is correct then Aawe and Hawiye are brothers. This is of course if we can confirm that Hawiye falls under E-BY8081 and parallel to E-18632.

I haven’t heard of any WaAdeeri siblings. They could be alive or their descendants haven’t survived the passage of time. We do have yearly meetings with the other 3 Karanle branches (Gidir, Sixaawle, Kaariye). Some of them even live with us in Mogadishu and Galmudug. There are also Murusade that live with them in Ethiopia like Baale, Baabili etc. We are very close despite the sheer distance between us.

I don’t think elders of Somalia will believe us. The younger generation however will take this Y chromosomes abtirsi seriously. Just give it a few decades. Maybe 20 years and watch how the young sophisticated Somalis will identify with Haplogroups lol.

But how do we get Xaskul & Gungundhabe samples? I don't know anyone from those clans. Are you related to them? Can you convince any to do Nebula?
Bulletproofpride 12/2/2022 12:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

But how do we get Xaskul & Gungundhabe samples? I don't know anyone from those clans. Are you related to them? Can you convince any to do Nebula?

I wish I was. Unfortunately I’m only related to Abgaal and we already know where they plot on the Y tree. We just have to be patient for now. Sooner or later we will stumble upon a Gugundhabe. I think mujahid Nuur should start a thread on Somalispot encouraging more non-hiiraab Hawiye to take a DNA test since that website has a lot of lurkers from different clans.
farjanomar 12/4/2022 8:33:00 AM

@Netnomad @Mujahid Nur @Garaacad

FTDNA has created a 3rd sublade for E-FT24258. A Warsangali guy got it.

E-FT24258:

E-FT18668. (Dhulbahante linked)

E-BY203531. (Wabeeneye linked)

E-FT59989. (Warsangali linked)

There is 2nd Warsangali with almost identical STRs, that should have gotten the same subclade, but, did only Y111.
farjanomar 12/4/2022 8:52:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride @garaacad @Nur Mujahid

I hear you guys talk about contacting the E-By8081 Murursade guy who left yfull.

Ist possible to DM him on Yfull unless he does rejoin yfull.
Farroukh 12/4/2022 9:49:00 AM

E-M35 must be considered as typical for Somalians, others are exotic

Highly likely E-M123 is -> E-M84.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/4/2022 11:16:00 AM

@Farroukh we have sub clans in Somalia like Leysan and probibally many more who are positive for E-M123 but they don't have a heavy presence in the western diaspora. They carry a middle Eastern or Eurasian subclade of E-M123, PRI

probibally from Yamen.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/4/2022 11:55:00 AM

Can we determine whether some of the Somalis on 23andme are positive for subclade 163949, if they opload there 23andme results on the Somali project?
Farroukh 12/4/2022 12:38:00 PM

E-M123, PRI probibally from Yamen.

Yes, Yemen is the most suitable source of Somalian E-M123.

Can you post here their YSTRs? I'd like to predict their subclade under M123.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/4/2022 12:45:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Yes, Yemen is the most suitable source of Somalian E-M123.

Can you post here their YSTRs? I'd like to predict their subclade under M123.

@Natnomad can help you with that, and maybe @farjanomar as they may have access to the Somali project where the Somali E-M123 sample are,im not very techno smart.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/4/2022 12:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

E-M35 must be considered as typical for Somalians, others are exotic

Highly likely E-M123 is -> E-M84.

Leysan somalia E-BY70004 13 24 13 10 16-17 11 12 13 13 11 33 15 9-9 11 11 26 14 20 32 14-16-16-17 10 11 17-22 17 13 19 18 31-35 13 10 10 8 15-15 7 10 10 8 10 10 0 21-24 19 13 12 13 16 7 11 25 20 13 13 11 14 10 12 10 11 34 15 8 15 11 22 28 19 13 12 13 11 12 8 10 11 10 11 12 31 11 12 18 13 13 12 22 16 18 16 24 14 12 15 25 14 21 22 12 14 17 9 12 11

2.1a: T-M70>L162>L208>Y16897>Y45591>T-BY181210>T-FGC92488 - TMRCA ~800 YBP (~12th to ~13th century CE)

68 N89672 Habar Yonis, Reer Sugulle Somalia T-M70 13 23 15 10 13-15 11 12 11 14 14 29
Farroukh 12/4/2022 1:24:00 PM

Leysan somalia E-BY70004

Yes, it is a E-M84...->Y102168, relatively recent migration from Hadhramaut.
Garaacad 12/4/2022 10:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bulletproofpride @garaacad @Nur Mujahid

I hear you guys talk about contacting the E-By8081 Murursade guy who left yfull.

Ist possible to DM him on Yfull unless he does rejoin yfull.

Contacting him isn’t possible I'm afraid. However, the Murusade grouped with other Hawiyes on FTDNA is his paternal 3rd cousin. Once he gets his Big Y results and uploads to YFull.com @Bulletproofpride can DM him on YFull.
Farroukh 12/4/2022 10:58:00 PM

Abbink, G.J. (2009). The Total Somali Clan Genealogy (second edition), 16.2 Mb, PDF

Chart of the main lines in the total Somali clan genealogy (see pp.10-35 of the paper for detailed divisions)

Let us speculatively attribute "Y-chromosomal Hill/Samaale" as the first bearer of E-Y18629.

Can we poetically attribute it's three downstreams as "Y-chromosomal Saab/Irir/Daroord"..?
drobbah 12/4/2022 11:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Abbink, G.J. (2009). The Total Somali Clan Genealogy (second edition), 16.2 Mb, PDF

Chart of the main lines in the total Somali clan genealogy (see pp.10-35 of the paper for detailed divisions)

Let us speculatively attribute "Y-chromosomal Hill/Samaale" as the first bearer of E-Y18629.

Can we poetically attribute it's three downstreams as "Y-chromosomal Saab/Irir/Daroord"..?

Isaaq are a mixture of various haplogroups, half the clan belongs to the dominant lineage of the Dir which is an Arabian T-M70 subclade while those of us who are E-V32 have our own 2700 year old subclade distinct from the majority of Daroods and the Hawiye.Other Isaaqs carry E-V22,E-V16,E-M78*,E-M34 and I have heard that there was one 1 J-P58 Isaaq member aswell.
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 3:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Contacting him isn’t possible I'm afraid. However, the Murusade grouped with other Hawiyes on FTDNA is his paternal 3rd cousin. Once he gets his Big Y results and uploads to YFull.com @Bulletproofpride can DM him on YFull.

I’m confused. How does his 3rd cousin from his father side be different than his Y chromosome? Shouldn’t they both be grouped together with the MJ’s? Anyways, I’m most definitely going to have the same Y since we both connected at 7-8 generations
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 3:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Isaaq are a mixture of various haplogroups, half the clan belongs to the dominant lineage of the Dir which is an Arabian T-M70 subclade while those of us who are E-V32 have our own 2700 year old subclade distinct from the majority of Daroods and the Hawiye.Other Isaaqs carry E-V22,E-V16,E-M78*,E-M34 and I have heard that there was one 1 J-P58 Isaaq member aswell.

Is there a T chromosome specific to Dir? How different is it from the T’s found in the Karanle from around the Harar region?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/5/2022 3:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Is there a T chromosome specific to Dir? How different is it from the T’s found in the Karanle from around the Harar region?

Somali's have different sub clade's of T, not all Somali's who are haplogroup T are Dir. We have a Luway Rahanweyn who did yfull and has clustered with Sudanese Tigre. There are many Rahanweyn sub clans who are T, majority of T lineages of Somali's are not of Dir origin.
Garaacad 12/5/2022 3:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I’m confused. How does his 3rd cousin from his father side be different than his Y chromosome? Shouldn’t they both be grouped together with the MJ’s? Anyways, I’m most definitely going to have the same Y since we both connected at 7-8 generations

37 Y-STRs are unreliable. A Madhibaan carrying E-FTB57462 is in the same cluster. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTB57462/

People, who have gotten results, through testing at low-resolution Y-STRs on FTDNA can be miscategorized. This is because 37 Y-STRs aren't reliable. Usually, when they have gotten their Big Y result, they are correctly subcategorized.

A few weeks, after the Murusade has gotten his result. He will be grouped with MJs. I'm 99% sure he is E-BY8081. Its just a problem with FTDNA.
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 3:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Abbink, G.J. (2009). The Total Somali Clan Genealogy (second edition), 16.2 Mb, PDF

Chart of the main lines in the total Somali clan genealogy (see pp.10-35 of the paper for detailed divisions)

Let us speculatively attribute "Y-chromosomal Hill/Samaale" as the first bearer of E-Y18629.

Can we poetically attribute it's three downstreams as "Y-chromosomal Saab/Irir/Daroord"..?

Yes, E-Y18629 is the core Somali haplogroup. T looks like it crossed through the bab el mandab/Zeila corridor with the spread of Islam and got assimilated. J1-p58, E-M34 are Arab immigrants that came over the course of the last 4 millennia and continue till this day. Y dna A came with the pastoralist from Sudan. Y dna R1a came with the Indians during trade. E-m81 came with the North Africans during the Middle Ages. I’ve seen sheikhal with origins from Harar have this marker.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/5/2022 3:40:00 AM

The two murursade samples are probibally of the same origin, one managed to get his results, the other sample failed the quality control stage l, so he didn't receive his results.
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 3:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

37 Y-STRs are unreliable. A Madhibaan carrying E-FTB57462 is in the same cluster. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTB57462/

People, who have gotten results, through testing at low-resolution Y-STRs on FTDNA can be miscategorized. This is because 37 Y-STRs can be unreliable. Usually, when they have gotten their Big Y result, they are correctly subcategorized.

A few weeks, after the Murusade has gotten his result. He will be grouped with MJs. I'm 99% sure he is E-BY8081. Its just a problem with FTDNA.

Thank you. It makes sense now. Which Murusade is getting his results in few weeks? The one who is related to me? The Reer Dhaaley?
Garaacad 12/5/2022 3:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

The two murursade samples are probibally of the same origin, one managed to get his results, the other sample failed the quality control stage l, so he didn't receive his results.

Hmm, are you talking about the Murusade on FTDNA?

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you. It makes sense now. Which Murusade is getting his results in few weeks? The one who is related to me? The Reer Dhaaley?

Yeah, I was referring to the Reer Dhaaley guy.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/5/2022 3:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you. It makes sense now. Which Murusade is getting his results in few weeks? The one who is related to me? The Reer Dhaaley?

No murursade will be getting results as my friend, when he failed the quality control, I adviced him to request another free sample sent to him, but he insisted he just wanted his mony back, as he already saw his relative, where he landed in yfull. Also I couldn't convince him to pay the fee of his relative that was under E-by8081.
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 3:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Somali's have different sub clade's of T, not all Somali's who are haplogroup T are Dir. We have a Luway Rahanweyn who did yfull and has clustered with Sudanese Tigre. There are many Rahanweyn sub clans who are T, majority of T lineages of Somali's are not of Dir origin.

I can see most Somalis fall under T-BY181210. The Dir fall under T-FGC92488. Could the Karanle be similar to the Dir since they are geographically closer to each other?
Garaacad 12/5/2022 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

No murursade will be getting results as my friend, when he failed the quality control, I adviced him to request another free sample sent to him, but he insisted he just wanted his mony back, as he already saw his relative, where he landed in yfull. Also I couldn't convince him to pay the fee of his relative that was under E-by8081.

On Somalispot Libaax-Joore has already paid for his Big Y test. Link to the thread:

[Bad Link]

Btw, @Bulletproofpride it won't take a few weeks. His kit was ordered around the same time as yours. FTDNA has turnaround time of ~ 6-12 weeks.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/5/2022 3:59:00 AM

No Libaax joore changed his mind, as he saw that the murursade one on Ftd and Yfull STR matched, no worries you will most certainly get the sane results as the other murursade, if not there are many Dhaley relatives in the west who will take the test.
Bulletproofpride 12/5/2022 4:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

On Somalispot Libaax-Joore has already paid for his Big Y test. Link to the thread:

[Bad Link]

Btw, @Bulletproofpride it won't take a few weeks. His kit was ordered around the same time as yours. FTDNA has turnaround time of ~ 6-12 weeks.

So the same guy that had his results on Yfull will upload his results again, or is it his cousin this time?
Garaacad 12/5/2022 4:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

No Libaax joore changed his mind, as he saw that the murursade one on Ftd and Yfull STR matched, no worries you will most certainly get the sane results as the other murursade, if not there are many Dhaley relatives in the west who will take the test.

As far as I know, he may have ordered twice. I think you are referring to the first time. The first one was around April 21st, 2022. Link to post: [Bad Link]

This is the second time and he posted a screenshot.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So the same guy that had his results on Yfull will upload his results again, or is it his cousin this time?

His cousin.
Bulletproofpride 12/6/2022 7:20:00 AM

@garaacad @mujahid nur

There is this Gidir Karanle guy on twitter that goes by the name Hangool. I’m permanently banned from twitter but I would love to have him tested since he is into Somali history. Could someone try and contact him? He knows me as Wa-Adeeri. Tell him that I am on this forum (anthrogenica) and that he should join. I will try and encourage him to take his DNA and have it on Y full once he joins anthrogenica. I really want to confirm the Hawiye lineage as soon as possible.

https://twitter.com/adam20073132780/...jMasVW7h6cTa9g
Saeed 12/6/2022 11:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

After Nabula has finished sequencing your results you simply sent an email to yfull with your Nabula loqin details and they will opload your results onto yfull in 24hours.

Here is there email

yfullcom@gmail.com

My name is......

. I have received my nebula genome sequencing results. Can you please help me to upload it on Yfull, I need assistance, thank you.

Nebula login email:

Nabula Password:

You don’t need to do that, Nebula will do it for you, there is a “transfer” button on the Nebula website and when you click it, it automatically creates a YFull account for you and transfers the data, so you don’t need to send YFull an email really. @bulletproofpride
Garaacad 12/6/2022 7:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@garaacad @mujahid nur

There is this Gidir Karanle guy on twitter that goes by the name Hangool. I’m permanently banned from twitter but I would love to have him tested since he is into Somali history. Could someone try and contact him? He knows me as Wa-Adeeri. Tell him that I am on this forum (anthrogenica) and that he should join. I will try and encourage him to take his DNA and have it on Y full once he joins anthrogenica. I really want to confirm the Hawiye lineage as soon as possible.

https://twitter.com/adam20073132780/...jMasVW7h6cTa9g

Your friend gave me some interesting information:

From Hangool

"It's is also documented that some of the Gidir subclan of Karanle moved as recently as about 300 yrs ago from Qardho through Wardheer, Qabri Dahare & back to Harar & Bali to reconnect with those who were in that area. Looks like we were in the North when Adal disintegrated".

Can you ask your aunty about this? I am not Reer Bari.

I did try and get him to register. Hopefully, he will.
Bulletproofpride 12/6/2022 9:45:00 PM

Guys, thanks for engaging with Hangool and encouraging him to join us on this forum. He is the only karanle guy I know who isn’t Murusade.

@Garaacad, I don’t think my aunty will know about a Gidir migration. Murusade separated from the other Karanle way before this migration and had already established roots in Ceelbuur, Xamar daye, lower shabelle etc.

Hopefully we can get him and others Hawiye tested to understand this clan dynamics that our Somali ancestors created.
Omaar 12/6/2022 10:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

what about YF094679?

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Harti Abgaal.

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting new developments:

-The Raxanweyn remains at E-BY192465* (2600 ybp tmrca) while the the Dir Muse Dhariye & Banadir sample share a downstream subclade with a tmrca of 400ybp
Saeed 12/6/2022 10:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Are you Abgaal? It makes sense for YF094679 to be Abgaal (if you the Banaadir sample are as well) considering the tmrca.

Where did you guys get Dir Muse Dhariye from?
Omaar 12/6/2022 11:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Are you Abgaal? It makes sense for YF094679 to be Abgaal (if you the Banaadir sample are as well) considering the tmrca.

i am confused,

Where did you guys get Dir Muse Dhariye from?

Ok. Let me explain to you? it is all about same sample (YF094679). Someone said it belongs to Dir Muse Dhariye, while other person said it belongs to Harti Abgaal?. I know it is confusing,

i don't know whom to trust.
Garaacad 12/6/2022 11:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Ok. Let me explain to you? it is all about same sample (YF094679). Someone said it belongs to Dir Muse Dhariye, while other person said it belongs to Harti Abgaal?. I know it is confusing,

i don't know whom to trust.

It was a mix-up. The Muse Dhariye on FTDNA carries E-FTB35550. Open E-Y177088's info tab id:YF094679 tested through Dante. So that result can't belong to the Muse Dhariye guy as he is only on FTDNA.
Omaar 12/7/2022 12:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

It was a mix-up. The Muse Dhariye on FTDNA carries E-FT350030. Open E-Y177088's info tab id: YF094679 tested through Dante. So that result can't belong to the Muse Dhariye guy as he is only on FTDNA.

You mean this E-FTB35550, because this E-FT350030 is not Muse Dhariye.
Garaacad 12/7/2022 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

You mean this E-FTB35550, because this E-FT350030 is not Muse Dhariye.

Yeah, I meant E-FTB35550.
Garaacad 12/13/2022 10:31:00 PM

@NetNomad, @Mujahid Nur Marehan, @Farjanomar, et al.

What do you guys think of Hantaale and Amlaale? I doubt these individuals existed since there isn't any real Y-DNA difference between E-FT24258 carrying Hartis, once you account for FT18668's TMCRA.

Would love to know what you guys think of this.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=215

This lineage looks like a merger of a previous MJ tradition with the typical Harti tradition to rationalize the two together. The original abtiris could have been Aawe--> Hantaale--> Amlaale--> Unknown---> Unknown---> several more generations--> Some pre-proto-Murusade figure.

Unlikely but very plausible.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/14/2022 1:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@NetNomad, @Mujahid Nur Marehan, @Farjanomar, et al.

What do you guys think of Hantaale and Amlaale? I doubt these individuals existed since there isn't any real Y-DNA difference between E-FT24258 carrying Hartis, once you account for FT18668's TMCRA.

Would love to know what you guys think of this.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=215

This lineage looks like a merger of a previous MJ tradition with the typical Harti tradition to rationalize the two together. The original abtiris could have been Aawe--> Hantaale--> Amlaale--> Unknown---> Unknown---> several more generations--> Some pre-proto-Murusade figure.

Unlikely but very plausible.

I think the abtirsi is treu, maybe after E-163949, our somali, non Arabian abtirsi was Amlaale. The reason I suggest this is because at the time of Futux Geri and Marehan were living in the same region around Jigjiga, hence Futux mentions that Geri Koombe complained to the Imam Ahmed Gurey, that a Marehan sub clan had tensions with them because Geri allied themself with Ahmed Gurey. Generally clans that neighbour each other share a paternal lineage. But maybe if some sub clans I'd Geri Koombe take the test, the Harti and Geri will form a subclade and they will join the Marehan and Lelkase up further up stream.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/14/2022 1:44:00 AM

@Garacaad If Geri koombe and some Majeerteen turn out to be really closly related than Hantaale, Amlaale were incioarated into 163949 lineage. I don't really think it matters anyways these abtirsi are just ideas now, we share the same subclades and origin.
Bulletproofpride 12/14/2022 2:18:00 AM

Garaacad and mujahid nur are you guys both E-163949? What clan is Garaacad?
Garaacad 12/14/2022 2:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Garaacad and mujahid nur are you guys both E-163949? What clan is Garaacad?

No, I am an MJ from Mudug. I’m likely E-BY8081. We’re discussing a theory I have regarding the lineage disjunction between MJ and Harti.
Bulletproofpride 12/14/2022 2:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, I am an MJ from Mudug. I’m likely E-BY8081. We’re discussing a theory I have regarding the lineage disjunction between MJ and Harti.

I know mj are E-BY8081 but what subclade do the other Harti fall under? I’m also confused with the fact that Murusade and Hiiraab fall under 2 completely different branches and yet both are called Hawiye. I’m starting to believe that Karanle and other Hawiye members around the Harar-Baabili region will all turn out to be E-BY8081. The term Hawiye, Dir, Darood etc could be names of ‘gangs’ rather than actual people.
Garaacad 12/14/2022 3:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I know mj are E-BY8081 but what subclade do the other Harti fall under? I’m also confused with the fact that Murusade and Hiiraab fall under 2 completely different branches and yet both are called Hawiye. I’m starting to believe that Karanle and other Hawiye members around the Harar-Baabili region will all turn out to be E-BY8081. The term Hawiye, Dir, Darood etc could be names of ‘gangs’ rather than actual people.

Other Hartis are FT24258, which is a downstream subclade of Y163949. Y diversity exists in all clans. I believe most pre-Futuh clans started off as confederacies.

I really don’t want to go down this rabbit hole lol. I’ve already hinted at the cause of this new Murursade/Hiraab spilt. We need to see various Hawiyes clustering under BY8081 for it be associated with the Hawiye clan.

Let’s be cautious for now and not make predictions.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/14/2022 3:48:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride we don't have Faraculus Murursade samples yet, I think priminjstsr Kheyre was Faraculus.
Bulletproofpride 12/14/2022 4:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Other Hartis are FT24258, which is a downstream subclade of Y163949. Y diversity exists in all clans. I believe most pre-Futuh clans started off as confederacies.

I really don’t want to go down this rabbit hole lol. I’ve already hinted at the cause of this new Murursade/Hiraab spilt. We need to see various Hawiyes clustering under BY8081 for it be associated with the Hawiye clan.

Let’s be cautious for now and not make predictions.

Yes you’re right that most clans started of as a confederate. I have no doubt that majority of the Karanle and Gugundhabe Hawiye up north will be E-BY8081. I believe this because Hawiye clans have oral history in the north. We believe Hawiye and his sons lived in and around the Erer-Baabili region so it would only make sense to ascribe the Hawiye clade to the clade carried by the clans from those regions. Hawiye was mentioned as early as the 12th century living between Ras Hafuun and Merca. Ras Hasfuun is part of Puntland. This could explain the E-BY8081 connection.
Bulletproofpride 12/14/2022 4:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride we don't have Faraculus Murursade samples yet, I think priminjstsr Kheyre was Faraculus.

If 1 Gugundhabe from up north and 1 karanle turn out to be E-BY8081 then the Hawiye Clade is sealed.

Yes khaire was forculus.
Saeed 12/14/2022 4:09:00 PM

I highly doubt most other Hawiye will be E-BY8081, but hypothetically if that does happen, what would that make Hiraab?
Garaacad 12/14/2022 5:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I highly doubt most other Hawiye will be E-BY8081, but hypothetically if that does happen, what would that make Hiraab?

It would make you guys a stand-alone clan. This could really go either way tbf. I don’t want to make predictions on this topic. E-BY8081 MJs descending from 12th-century Ras Hafun Hawiyes does make sense, but apart from that point, I think @Bulletproofpride is getting ahead of himself. Let’s not go too deep into the specifics this is all unconfirmed speculation.
drobbah 12/14/2022 7:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

It would make you guys a stand-alone clan. This could really go either way tbf. I don’t want to make predictions on this topic. E-BY8081 MJs descending from 12th-century Ras Hafun Hawiyes does make sense, but apart from that point, I think @Bulletproofpride is getting ahead of himself. Let’s not go too deep into the specifics this is all unconfirmed speculation.

Isn’t their already a Hawiye subclade with a HG and and an Abgaal?
Garaacad 12/14/2022 7:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Isn’t their already a Hawiye subclade with a HG and and an Abgaal?

All E-FT77328 carriers come from the Hiraab, Hawiye clan. The Hawiye clan is at least 1000 years old, whilst E-FT77328 is probably only 600-500 years old. It isn't necessarily the lineage of all Hawiyes.

Hiraabs abtiris to a man called Maxamuud Gorgaarte whilst Murusades abtiris to a man called Karanle. Gorgaarte and Karanle are meant to be brothers... Theoretically, a NPE (non-paternity event) could have occurred in the generations separating Hiraab from Maxamuud Gorgaarte.

Alternatively, MJs could just descend from pre-proto-Murusades who moved in the direction of PL. The Murusades who previously lived in Harar/Western Galbeed may have been absorbed into the Hawiye clan.

So, by testing older E-V32 Hawiyes we can discover the true Hawiye Y-Chromosome. What we know for certain is that one of these clans can't be Hawiye.
Bulletproofpride 12/15/2022 12:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I highly doubt most other Hawiye will be E-BY8081, but hypothetically if that does happen, what would that make Hiraab?

Brother I’m confused myself lol. Unfortunately one of us is assimilated. So far the only oral tradition that I know of is that Karanle, Xaskul and Raarane have the same mother. I suspect these 3 clans to have the same Y profile. Notice how Xaskul lives with Karanle almost everywhere in Somalia and Ethiopia. I also know that many of the Gorgaarte children married Karanle females. We got Habar Gidir named after Raarey Gidir Karanle. We got Faacey karanle birthing hiiraab or his siblings. There is also a well known story how hiiraab married Murusade’s older sister in which Murusade refused and followed his sister and Hiraab to where these clans are primarily found today, hence the name ‘hiradeed’ (one that was against the marriage) given to Murusade. It seems that the assimilation according to oral tradition went one way which is gorgaarte becoming Hawiye. But I think it’s too early to come to a conclusion yet.
Bulletproofpride 12/15/2022 12:59:00 AM

There is even a branch of Geri Koombe called Bah Hawiye who live with the Karanle. The Geri Garads are called "Bah Hawiya" because Garad Matan of Geri married the sister of Imam Ahmed (Gurey) who was called Fardowsa. Geri, the Bah Hawiye that their Garads come from are linked to Karanle. Now I don’t know if this ‘Bah Hawiye’ predates the marriage with Fardowsa or if she was the reason why the branch was called so nevertheless the imam was very connected to Garad Matan who married his sister. Even Burton has reported that the Garads of Geri & Bartire are assimilated Hawiye. It seems the origin of the name Hawiye is connected with the Hawiye clans from the Hararghe region. The problem here is that Hawiye people were mentioned as early as the 12th century in Merca. This means Hawiye is older than 1000 years.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 12/15/2022 1:20:00 AM

Hawiye being mentioned as a tribe as early as the 12th century (800 years ago) means that Hawiye himself should be minimum 1200 years old. TMRCA of Murusade and MJ is roughly that according to Yfull. Unfortunately we don’t have enough information on the hiiraab branch. Not enough samples. TMRCA that links them with the Raxanweyne is too old (2600 years). We have to wait and see to get a clearer picture.
farjanomar 12/17/2022 6:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@NetNomad, @Mujahid Nur Marehan, @Farjanomar, et al.

What do you guys think of Hantaale and Amlaale? I doubt these individuals existed since there isn't any real Y-DNA difference between E-FT24258 carrying Hartis, once you account for FT18668's TMCRA.

Would love to know what you guys think of this.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person=215

This lineage looks like a merger of a previous MJ tradition with the typical Harti tradition to rationalize the two together. The original abtiris could have been Aawe--> Hantaale--> Amlaale--> Unknown---> Unknown---> several more generations--> Some pre-proto-Murusade figure.

Unlikely but very plausible.

This big y tests needs a lot of patience, i got my result in feb 2021 and the other guys in my sub-group were there 2-3 years before me (1 Warsangali 1 Wabeeneye and few dhulbahante) and surprisingly ftdna formed the Harti sub-clade E-FT24258 recently. If those ancestral names existed time will tell as more Non-Harti Koombe and Absametake big Y results. Plus oral clan history is not always true.
farjanomar 12/17/2022 6:46:00 AM

Guys just checked ftdna and saw the Murursade guy got upgraded to Y-111, so maybe 2 more weeks left for his big y result.
Garaacad 12/17/2022 6:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Guys just checked ftdna and saw the Murursade guy got upgraded to Y-111, so maybe 2 more weeks left for his big y result.

Interesting, is he now correctly grouped with E-BY8081 MJs?
farjanomar 12/17/2022 7:03:00 AM

@Garaacad, @Bulletproofptide, @Mujahid. I have a question for you, How many Murursade big y results have you seen? I only saw the guy, who was at time on yfull.

From your comments you guys assume Murursade is E-BY8081. If its only one sample, i think its not enough.
farjanomar 12/17/2022 7:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Interesting, is he now correctly grouped with E-BY8081 MJs?

He is grouped with E-FTB57462 Madhibaan guy, but i think the grouping change once he gets his big y SNP.
Garaacad 12/17/2022 7:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Garaacad, @Bulletproofptide, @Mujahid. I have a question for you, How many Murursade big y results have you seen? I only saw the guy, who was at time on yfull.

From your comments you guys a assume Murursade is E-BY8081. If its only one sample, i think its not enough.

To be fair, I'm not claiming it's the only Murursade lineage, but it is better than nothing. The age of our TMCRA points to an old pre-Islamic connection. @Bulletproofpride comes from the same 8th generation reer, so his results will probably be the same. Hopefully, we will get two Murusades on Ytree very soon.

The only other potential Murursade lineage is T-BY181210, IMO.

By the way, who is the new guy under T-BY181210?

Are there any surprises? The FTDNA Murursade will be E-BY8081, no?
Bulletproofpride 12/17/2022 7:23:00 AM

Can you send me the ftdna link please?
Bulletproofpride 12/17/2022 7:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

To be fair, I'm not claiming it's the only Murursade lineage, but it is better than nothing. The age of our TMCRA points to an old pre-Islamic connection. @Bulletproofpride comes from the same 8th generation reer, so his results will probably be the same. Hopefully, we will get two Murusades on Ytree very soon.

The only other potential Murursade lineage is T-BY181210, IMO.

By the way, who is the new guy under T-BY181210?

I wish it was 2 diverse Murusade people. This guy could literally be someone I know personally if he is reer dhaaley. I will most definitely have the same marker as the original Murusade on Yfull.

Where did you witness a Murusade with T haplogroup? I’m yet to see a Karanle with T haplogroup.
drobbah 12/17/2022 7:35:00 AM

@Garacad the new T-BY181210 sample is most likely a full ethnic Somali because his sample is on the mtree as well,falling under a Somali subclade of N1b
Bulletproofpride 12/17/2022 7:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Guys just checked ftdna and saw the Murursade guy got upgraded to Y-111, so maybe 2 more weeks left for his big y result.

Is the related to the Yfull guy or not?
farjanomar 12/17/2022 12:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Can you send me the ftdna link please?

Ftdna Somali Project is private. I did my big y with them, i have access. But you can join with a 23andme file upload for free, if you got one.
farjanomar 12/17/2022 12:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Is the related to the Yfull guy or not?

Yes, but another guy paid for his big y upgrade two weeks a go.
Mnemonics 12/17/2022 3:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

@Garacad the new T-BY181210 sample is most likely a full ethnic Somali because his sample is on the mtree as well,falling under a Somali subclade of N1b

That's my sample newly uploaded on yfull.
Monk307 12/17/2022 7:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mnemonics

That's my sample newly uploaded on yfull.

What is your clan if you don't mind me asking? Just so we can get an understanding because according to the preliminary you have an independent branch of T-BY181210 that isn't either the Northern Dir/Isaaq or Surre subclades.
drobbah 12/17/2022 7:42:00 PM

Does anyone know what haplogroup that Gaaljecel sample on the Somali ftdna project belongs to based on strs? It is only assigned E-M35 but clearly isn’t E-V32
farjanomar 12/17/2022 9:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Does anyone know what haplogroup that Gaaljecel sample on the Somali ftdna project belongs to based on strs? It is only assigned E-M35 but clearly isn’t E-V32

I did a post on that. He is E-M293 according to Haplogroup predictor.
Bulletproofpride 12/17/2022 10:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yes, but another guy paid for his big y upgrade two weeks a go.

So this other guy who did his upgrade is unrelated to the original Yfull guy?
Omaar 12/18/2022 1:09:00 AM

The E-FT77328 Story

"E-FT77328's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor E-BY192465 and the rest of mankind around 450 BCE."

"The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1000 CE."

So 1450 years is the time elapsed between E-FT77328 and its ancestral E-BY192465.

" A large number can suggest a small population size or a bottleneck, causing only one lineage to survive for a long time".

I am not sure how accurate Abtirsi is but if my interpretation is correct, it seems that, after Mahamuud "Daame"{..}, only Madable "Diintawaaq" survived and he had had two sons Hiraab and Muhudiin.

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale-> Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Madarki'is "Habar Gidir"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal-> Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Mudulood->Darandoole->Osman->Ali"Abgaal"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"-> Muhudiin ->Samaale->Meyle->Mahamed-> Hawaadle

E-BY192465 "Madable "Diintawaaq" is the ancestor of at least 2 descendant lineages known as E-FT77328 and 1 yet unnamed lineage.

If E-BY192465 is Madable "Diintawaaq" then

1) E-FT77328->is Hiraab and

2)yet unnamed lineage-> might be (Muhudin ): i think the Bay Guy can be Hawaadle?

1) E-FT77328 "Hiraab" has atleast four sons:

1a)E-Y177088 is Mudulood

1b) Y264505 is Madarki'is "Habar gidir"

1c)Martile"Shiikhaal" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

1d)Mohamud"Duduble" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

NB:I am not clan expert, i just collected these names from the Internet and i do not know if they are in right order!

"But the story does not end here! As more people test, the history of this genetic lineage will be further refined."FTDNA
Mnemonics 12/18/2022 1:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Monk307

What is your clan if you don't mind me asking? Just so we can get an understanding because according to the preliminary you have an independent branch of T-BY181210 that isn't either the Northern Dir/Isaaq or Surre subclades.

HJ Samane Abokor. It might just be taking time to slot me into the correct branch but that would be interesting.
Garaacad 12/18/2022 2:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So this other guy who did his upgrade is unrelated to the original Yfull guy?

No, you've misunderstood @farjanomar. He meant another FTDNA user paid for that Murusade's Big Y upgrade. They are third cousins and will definitely be related. This other FTDNA user is an MJ.

He has not gotten his results yet, but they are close.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 2:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

The E-FT77328 Story

"E-FT77328's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor E-BY192465 and the rest of mankind around 450 BCE."

"The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1000 CE."

So 1450 years is the time elapsed between E-FT77328 and its ancestral E-BY192465.

" A large number can suggest a small population size or a bottleneck, causing only one lineage to survive for a long time".

I am not sure how accurate Abtirsi is but if my interpretation is correct, it seems that, after Mahamuud "Daame"{..}, only Madable "Diintawaaq" survived and he had had two sons Hiraab and Muhudiin.

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale-> Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Madarki'is "Habar Gidir"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal-> Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Mudulood->Darandoole->Osman->Ali"Abgaal"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"-> Muhudiin ->Samaale->Meyle->Mahamed-> Hawaadle

E-BY192465 "Madable "Diintawaaq" is the ancestor of at least 2 descendant lineages known as E-FT77328 and 1 yet unnamed lineage.

If E-BY192465 is Madable "Diintawaaq" then

1) E-FT77328->is Hiraab and

2)yet unnamed lineage-> might be (Muhudin ): i think the Bay Guy can be Hawaadle?

1) E-FT77328 "Hiraab" has atleast four sons:

1a)E-Y177088 is Mudulood

1b) Y264505 is Madarki'is "Habar gidir"

1c)Martile"Shiikhaal" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

1d)Mohamud"Duduble" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

NB:I am not clan expert, i just collected these names from the Internet and i do not know if they are in right order!

"But the story does not end here! As more people test, the history of this genetic lineage will be further refined."FTDNA

I don’t know what Y chromosome xawaadle will get but according to abtirsi xawaadle are not Hawiye. Mayle Samaale is believed to be brother of irir Samaale meaning xawaadle are further away from hawiye than even Dir since Dir shares the Irir with Hawiye. The abtirsi to Mayle would be very long and most xawaadle brothers don’t have an abtirsi that long. Xawaadle are a young clan because they are believed to have been adopted by mudulood.

E-FT77328 can’t be hiiraab. It’s way too old. It’s proto Hiiraab in which the actual hiiraab clade falls under. It’s the subclade that is shared and unites Habargidir with Abgaal. When an actual non hiiraab gets tested positive for this clade then the real hiiraab clade which the Abgaal and HG fall under will form with a young TMRCA and separate it self properly. E-BY192465 is way too ancient for it to be Hawiye let alone Madable Diintawaaq.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 3:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, you've misunderstood @farjanomar. He meant another FTDNA user paid for that Murusade's Big Y upgrade. They are third cousins and will definitely be related. This other FTDNA user is an MJ.

He has not gotten his results yet, but they are close.

Oh I see, so they’re the same Israfeel guys related to me. Are the FTDNA tree similar to the Yfull?
Monk307 12/18/2022 4:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mnemonics

HJ Samane Abokor. It might just be taking time to slot me into the correct branch but that would be interesting.

Absolutely, we're going to have to wait a little bit longer for full confirmation but congrats for the results!
Saeed 12/18/2022 4:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

The E-FT77328 Story

"E-FT77328's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor E-BY192465 and the rest of mankind around 450 BCE."

"The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1000 CE."

So 1450 years is the time elapsed between E-FT77328 and its ancestral E-BY192465.

" A large number can suggest a small population size or a bottleneck, causing only one lineage to survive for a long time".

I am not sure how accurate Abtirsi is but if my interpretation is correct, it seems that, after Mahamuud "Daame"{..}, only Madable "Diintawaaq" survived and he had had two sons Hiraab and Muhudiin.

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale-> Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Madarki'is "Habar Gidir"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal-> Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Mudulood->Darandoole->Osman->Ali"Abgaal"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"-> Muhudiin ->Samaale->Meyle->Mahamed-> Hawaadle

E-BY192465 "Madable "Diintawaaq" is the ancestor of at least 2 descendant lineages known as E-FT77328 and 1 yet unnamed lineage.

If E-BY192465 is Madable "Diintawaaq" then

1) E-FT77328->is Hiraab and

2)yet unnamed lineage-> might be (Muhudin ): i think the Bay Guy can be Hawaadle?

1) E-FT77328 "Hiraab" has atleast four sons:

1a)E-Y177088 is Mudulood

1b) Y264505 is Madarki'is "Habar gidir"

1c)Martile"Shiikhaal" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

1d)Mohamud"Duduble" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

NB:I am not clan expert, i just collected these names from the Internet and i do not know if they are in right order!

"But the story does not end here! As more people test, the history of this genetic lineage will be further refined."FTDNA

I'm new to this, so I'm curious how you know my subclade will be Y264505 exactly?

Also is the FTDNA tmrca even accurate considering no Habar Gidir on there did the big Y, or is it connected to YFull somehow?
farjanomar 12/18/2022 7:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

The E-FT77328 Story

"E-FT77328's paternal line was formed when it branched off from the ancestor E-BY192465 and the rest of mankind around 450 BCE."

"The man who is the most recent common ancestor of this line is estimated to have been born around 1000 CE."

So 1450 years is the time elapsed between E-FT77328 and its ancestral E-BY192465.

" A large number can suggest a small population size or a bottleneck, causing only one lineage to survive for a long time".

I am not sure how accurate Abtirsi is but if my interpretation is correct, it seems that, after Mahamuud "Daame"{..}, only Madable "Diintawaaq" survived and he had had two sons Hiraab and Muhudiin.

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale-> Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Madarki'is "Habar Gidir"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal-> Madable"Diintawaaq"}-> Hiraab ->Mudulood->Darandoole->Osman->Ali"Abgaal"

*Hawiye->Gorgaate->Mahamuud "Daame"->{Raage->Baraxow->Sariire->Berdaale->Abkaal->Madable"Diintawaaq"-> Muhudiin ->Samaale->Meyle->Mahamed-> Hawaadle

E-BY192465 "Madable "Diintawaaq" is the ancestor of at least 2 descendant lineages known as E-FT77328 and 1 yet unnamed lineage.

If E-BY192465 is Madable "Diintawaaq" then

1) E-FT77328->is Hiraab and

2)yet unnamed lineage-> might be (Muhudin ): i think the Bay Guy can be Hawaadle?

1) E-FT77328 "Hiraab" has atleast four sons:

1a)E-Y177088 is Mudulood

1b) Y264505 is Madarki'is "Habar gidir"

1c)Martile"Shiikhaal" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

1d)Mohamud"Duduble" Hiraab Mahamuud=?

NB:I am not clan expert, i just collected these names from the Internet and i do not know if they are in right order!

"But the story does not end here! As more people test, the history of this genetic lineage will be further refined."FTDNA

Good info bro. I like how you organised E-BY192465 with its subclades, and, Hawiye big Y results. I remember our bro Netnomad used to hypothesise

E-BY192465 to Hawiye. The clade could be the man himself (Hawiye Irir)

@Bulletproofe take TMRCA with a grain of salt is not accurate and fluctuates a lot with each new member added. i would say even not 50% true sometimes

(I will give a good example)

Darood linked SNP E-163949 TMRCA 900 years.

Harti linked SNP E-F24258 TMRCA 900 years.

My sub clan of harti subclae E-FT81055 TMRCA 850 years.

As you can see strangely almost all are same age.
Garaacad 12/18/2022 7:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Oh I see, so they’re the same Israfeel guys related to me. Are the FTDNA tree similar to the Yfull?

FTDNA's Ytree is slightly more advanced than the Ytree on YFull. FTDNA's Big Y test assigns testers more relevant terminal (final) SNPs.

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Good info bro. I like how you organised E-BY192465 with its subclades, and, Hawiye big Y results. I remember our bro Netnomad used to hypothesise

E-BY192465 to Hawiye. The clade could be the man himself (Hawiye Irir)

@Bulletproofe take TMRCA with a grain of salt is not accurate and fluctuates a lot with each new member added. i would say even not 50% true sometimes

(I will give a good example)

Darood linked SNP E-163949 TMRCA 900 years.

Harti linked SNP E-F24258 TMRCA 900 years.

My sub clan of harti subclae E-FT81055 TMRCA 850 years.

As you can see strangely almost all are same age.

E-BY192465's TMRCA will likely be changed to the lower end of the current dating (1800 ypb), which matches the Sab/Samaale connection, IMO. E-FT77328's TMCRA postdates Hawiye and I think the TMCRA will change to 500 ypb. The hypothetical Hawiye clan SNP should be upstream of E-FT77328 and downstream of E-BY192465.

I think E-Y163949's TMCRA has stabilized.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 9:35:00 AM

Lol, our upstream oral history is completely different than what these clades are showing. So now I’m told that Harti clade is E-F24258 while the MJ are in a completely separate tree.

IMO, the entire E-18629 is Samaale while the Sab would be in a yet still undiscovered sub clade under E-18629. The Hawiye clade would fall under the E-BY8081. Majority of the Karanle, Xaskul, including Somalis deep in Oromia, Bale and Hararghe zone including some of the Somali-Oromo people and some of the Hararis would test positive for this clade. Constant war with the Amhara for the last 700 years including the Oromo migration has displaced the Hawiye and other brotherly clans like the Dir and Darood from these regions. Some of the oldest villages and towns with real ethnic Somali names like Irir and Hawiye are found no where else but in these regions.

[Bad links]

I can produce 6 more villages within 3-10 km of Harar with Hawiye and Erer names. Even the Ali K'eno you see there was Karanle. Harar itself is a Hawiye settlement. The oldest part of Harar is called Gidir magaal named after Gidir Karanle. One of the gates of Harar is called Erer there is a sub sub clan of Karanle called Erer. The Gidir Magaal is a unesco world heritage site today but unfortunately it’s not in our hands anymore.

[Bad Link]

https://mapcarta.com/W101926891

This is why the Hawiye clade can only be associated with the clans from these regions and not the clans all the way in South central Somalia. Hawiye and his 1st born are literally buried around the Harar region. Because Murusade tested positive for E-BY8081 and they being the only tested Karanle means that for now the Hawiye clade is under E-BY8081.
Saeed 12/18/2022 9:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Lol, our upstream oral history is completely different than what these clades are showing. So now I’m told that Harti clade is E-F24258 while the MJ are in a completely separate tree.

IMO, the entire E-18629 is Samaale while the Sab would be in a yet still undiscovered sub clade under E-18629. The Hawiye clade would fall under the E-BY8081. Majority of the Karanle, Xaskul, including Somalis deep in Oromia, Bale and Hararghe zone including some of the Somali-Oromo people and some of the Hararis would test positive for this clade. Constant war with the Amhara for the last 700 years including the Oromo migration has displaced the Hawiye and other brotherly clans like the Dir and Darood from these regions. Some of the oldest villages and towns with real ethnic Somali names like Irir and Hawiye are found no where else but in these regions.

[Bad Links]

I can produce 6 more villages within 3-10 km of Harar with Hawiye and Erer names. Even the Ali K'eno you see there was Karanle. Harar itself is a Hawiye settlement. The oldest part of Harar is called Gidir magaal named after Gidir Karanle. One of the gates of Harar is called Erer there is a sub sub clan of Karanle called Erer. The Gidir Magaal is a unesco world heritage site today but unfortunately it’s not in our hands anymore.

[Bad Link]

https://mapcarta.com/W101926891

This is why the Hawiye clade can only be associated with the clans from these regions and not the clans all the way in South central Somalia. Hawiye and his 1st born are literally buried around the Harar region. Because Murusade tested positive for E-BY8081 and they being the only tested Karanle means that for now the Hawiye clade is under E-BY8081.

Nah, we gotta wait for more results, that Murusade result could be an outlier. We need plenty of Hawiye results before we can decide a Hawiye subclade.
Garaacad 12/18/2022 10:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Lol, our upstream oral history is completely different than what these clades are showing. So now I’m told that Harti clade is E-F24258 while the MJ are in a completely separate tree.

IMO, the entire E-18629 is Samaale while the Sab would be in a yet still undiscovered sub clade under E-18629. The Hawiye clade would fall under the E-BY8081. Majority of the Karanle, Xaskul, including Somalis deep in Oromia, Bale and Hararghe zone including some of the Somali-Oromo people and some of the Hararis would test positive for this clade. Constant war with the Amhara for the last 700 years including the Oromo migration has displaced the Hawiye and other brotherly clans like the Dir and Darood from these regions. Some of the oldest villages and towns with real ethnic Somali names like Irir and Hawiye are found no where else but in these regions.

[Bad Links]

I can produce 6 more villages within 3-10 km of Harar with Hawiye and Erer names. Even the Ali K'eno you see there was Karanle. Harar itself is a Hawiye settlement. The oldest part of Harar is called Gidir magaal named after Gidir Karanle. One of the gates of Harar is called Erer there is a sub sub clan of Karanle called Erer. The Gidir Magaal is a unesco world heritage site today but unfortunately it’s not in our hands anymore.

[Bad Link]

https://mapcarta.com/W101926891

This is why the Hawiye clade can only be associated with the clans from these regions and not the clans all the way in South central Somalia. Hawiye and his 1st born are literally buried around the Harar region. Because Murusade tested positive for E-BY8081 and they being the only tested Karanle means that for now the Hawiye clade is under E-BY8081.

Could Somalis really keep track of an abtiris spanning 108 generations (2700 years)?

Originally Posted by Saeed

Nah, we gotta wait for more results, that Murusade result could be an outlier. We need plenty of Hawiye results before we can decide a Hawiye subclade.

He comes from the wrong subclan/reer. The only tradition acknowledged by us is reer Wehliye potentially being of MJ origin. This Murursade comes from a completely different branch and wasn't relatively close to us.
Omaar 12/18/2022 2:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I'm new to this, so I'm curious how you know my subclade will be Y264505 exactly?

Also is the FTDNA tmrca even accurate considering no Habar Gidir on there did the big Y, or is it connected to YFull somehow?

Seems that, Y264505 fall under E-FT77320, and i am Y264505- and you are Y264505+.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 8:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Nah, we gotta wait for more results, that Murusade result could be an outlier. We need plenty of Hawiye results before we can decide a Hawiye subclade.

You are right brother that we should wait for more results but we should focus on the Hawiye from up north if we really want to find out what the Hawiye clade is.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 9:05:00 PM

@Garaacad @saceed brother the Murusade weheliye family is 100% murusade. They are not a clan but a downstream family. They would have no effect whatsoever on the Murusade gene pool. It was also confirmed by MJ elders according to my aunty back in the days to clear the doubts. Since they are a downstream family they would have accepted their MJ roots because it’s difficult to loose track of your roots since the family is only few generations old.

The Israfeel sample is my 7th generation cousin. We will end up having the same Y profile. Weheliye is a family (not a clan) in a completely different branch on the tree.

I doubt Hawiye was 2700 years old. E-BY8081 is pre-Hawiye. The names Hawiye and Irir are found all over Harar and its vicinity. Even nearby Dir Dawa is believed to have Dir origin and he happens to be Irir. Irir and Hawiye definitely existed. The Y chromosome of the clans from these regions that claim Hawiye would have the real Hawiye marker.
Garaacad 12/18/2022 9:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad brother the Murusade weheliye family is 100% murusade. They are not a clan but a downstream family. They would have no effect whatsoever on the Murusade gene pool. It was also confirmed by MJ elders according to my aunty back in the days to clear the doubts. Since they are a downstream family they would have accepted their MJ roots because it’s difficult to loose track of your roots since the family is only few generations old. The Israfeel sample is my 7th generation cousin. We will end up having the same Y profile. Weheliye is a family (not a clan) in a completely different branch on the tree.

I wasn't claiming them, I was just proving why the old Murusade sample was not necessarily an outlier. As there are no known ties between us and Israfeels.
Bulletproofpride 12/18/2022 9:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I wasn't claiming them, I was just proving how the old Murusade sample was not necessarily an outlier. As there are no known ties between us and Israfeels.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Garaacad 12/19/2022 5:23:00 AM

@Saeed @Farjanomar,

There's potentially a pattern here and that can't be dismissed. What are the chances that 2 outliers are the only Murusades to have made their results public? I only think E-BY8081 is the dominant E-V32 sublineage in the Murusade clan. I am not going further and claiming all Hawiyes carry it. I don't get how this is a fringe view.
Bulletproofpride 12/19/2022 6:02:00 AM

@Garaacad

Are Mj the only ones testing positive for E-BY8081? What about the other Harti like Dhulbahante, Warsangali, Tinle, Maganlabe and Dishiishe? What about the other non Harti like Jidwaq, Geri, Ogaden, Marehan, Leelkase etc.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/19/2022 10:42:00 PM

@Bulletproofpride Only MJ reer saleeban , also I think a Danweyne MJ and a reer Bacidyahan MJ. I am interested to see Siwaqroon results, I think they are the biggest sub clan not tested so far, one siwaqroon was posistive for EV32 on 23andme. 3 Harti sub clans have not been tested so far. Most in Sool, Sanaag will probibally turn out E163949. We have mixed results for Dishishe one was J1 and a Habar Awal linked lineage for another Dishishe on Family tree who did 37 markers. We are waiting all Absame results, except for one reer Cabdile, who has formed a sub clade with Ugaaslabe on Yfull.
Garaacad 12/19/2022 11:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride Only MJ reer saleeban , also I think a Danweyne MJ and a reer Bacidyahan MJ. I am interested to see Siwaqroon results, I think they are the biggest sub clan not tested so far, one siwaqroon was posistive for EV32 on 23andme. 3 Harti sub clans have not been tested so far. Most in Sool, Sanaag will probibally turn out E163949. We have mixed results for Dishishe one was J1 and a Habar Awal linked lineage for another Dishishe on Family tree who did 37 markers. We are waiting all Absame results, except for one reer Cabdile, who has formed a sub clade with Ugaaslabe on Yfull.

Siwaaqroons share a recent ancestor with the Saleebaans. I highly doubt they will be E-Y163949/E-Y163928. By all means, get that Siwaaqroon on 23andme to do Nebula and you will see for yourself most MJs belong to E-BY8081.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad

Are Mj the only ones testing positive for E-BY8081? What about the other Harti like Dhulbahante, Warsangali, Tinle, Maganlabe and Dishiishe? What about the other non Harti like Jidwaq, Geri, Ogaden, Marehan, Leelkase etc.

Firstly, Tinle, Maganlabe, and Dishiishe are all Mooracase (Ahmed) Harti. Secondly, we have lots of data on Northern Hartis and Marehans/Leelkases. So far, E-BY8081 is mainly associated with the MJ clan.

By the way, haplogroup T does exist in the Murursade/Karanle clan, but the frequency of it isn’t known. Message @eli for more details on that.

I think Geri Koombes & Ogadenis will be predominantly E-Y163928.
Bulletproofpride 12/20/2022 1:04:00 AM

@Garaacad, I’m yet to see a Karanle with T. Where is this Eli guy?
Garaacad 12/20/2022 1:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad, I’m yet to see a Karanle with T. Where is this Eli guy?

He is the last poster on this thread:

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 12/20/2022 2:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

He is the last poster on this thread:

[Bad Link]

He said he hasn’t heard of it. I believe it’s internet rumours.
Garaacad 12/20/2022 3:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He said he hasn’t heard of it. I believe it’s internet rumours.

Read his post on page 2 of the thread:

[Bad Link]

Karanle Ts do exist.
eli 12/20/2022 3:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Read his post on page 2 of the thread:

[Bad Link]

Karanle Ts do exist.

That sample I was referencing is from Iacovacci, it was an assumption that it was a Hawiye (Karanle) from Galbeed as they are more likely to have a presence in Djibouti. For all I know, he could be another Hawiye subclan, sorry if I was not clear enough.
Bulletproofpride 12/20/2022 3:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

That sample I was referencing is from Iacovacci, it was an assumption that it was a Hawiye (Karanle) from Galbeed as they are more likely to have a presence in Djibouti. For all I know, he could be another Hawiye subclan, sorry if I was not clear enough.

Is it confirmed that the sample is Hawiye?
drobbah 12/20/2022 3:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Siwaaqroons share a recent ancestor with the Saleebaans. I highly doubt they will be E-Y163949/E-Y163928. By all means, get that Siwaaqroon on 23andme to do Nebula and you will see for yourself most MJs belong to E-BY8081.

Firstly, Tinle, Maganlabe, and Dishiishe are all Mooracase (Ahmed) Harti. Secondly, we have lots of data on Northern Hartis and Marehans/Leelkases. So far, E-BY8081 is mainly associated with the MJ clan.

By the way, haplogroup T does exist in the Murursade/Karanle clan, but the frequency of it isn’t known. Message @eli for more details on that.

I think Geri Koombes & Ogadenis will be predominantly E-Y163928.

A Dashiishe sample from a member on this forum probably belongs to the branch that is dominated by us Isaaqs and an Ashraaf sample from Marka
eli 12/20/2022 4:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Is it confirmed that the sample is Hawiye?

Yes. Look up the Iacovacci paper, a clan breakdown of the individuals tested is given.
Garaacad 12/20/2022 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

A Dashiishe sample from a member on this forum probably belongs to the branch that is dominated by us Isaaqs and an Ashraaf sample from Marka

When I was talking about Northern Hartis, I was referring to Dhulbahantes, Warsangelis, Wabeeneeyes (MJ sub), and co. Wabeeneeye isn't on the same level, but you get my point. Yea, I've seen that result, but I was just correcting @Bulletproofpride's miscategorization of Harti subclans.
Bulletproofpride 12/20/2022 5:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by eli

Yes. Look up the Iacovacci paper, a clan breakdown of the individuals tested is given.

Can you give me that paper please. Djibouti is home to all the clans as it’s a major city. This Hawiye could be any one. Karanle don’t even have a presence in Djibouti. The Hawiye in Djibouti are mostly from south Somalia who fled the civil war. Another important factor to take into consideration is that Karanle is not the only Hawiye up north. You have Gugundhabe, Xaskul and I even heard of Saruur of Habar Gidir having migrated there too.
Bulletproofpride 12/20/2022 6:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

When I was talking about Northern Hartis, I was referring to Dhulbahantes, Warsangelis, Wabeeneeyes (MJ sub), and co. Wabeeneeye isn't on the same level, but you get my point. Yea, I've seen that result, but I was just correcting @Bulletproofpride's miscategorization of Harti subclans. Dishiishe isn't on the same level as Kaptanle, Maganlabe, and Tinle. Non-Dishiishe Mooracases may not carry E-BY155996 *.

Sorry I’m not very educated on the classification of the Darood tribes. So, so far only MJ are positive for E-BY8081? I’m asking all these questions to get a clearer picture of what could have happened in the past for Murusade to be paternally related to MJ. You would think that other Harti would be closer paternally but it seems to be not the case. Unfortunately we haven’t got a strong written tradition like our Yemeni and Habesha neighbours.
eli 12/20/2022 10:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Can you give me that paper please. Djibouti is home to all the clans as it’s a major city. This Hawiye could be any one. Karanle don’t even have a presence in Djibouti. The Hawiye in Djibouti are mostly from south Somalia who fled the civil war. Another important factor to take into consideration is that Karanle is not the only Hawiye up north. You have Gugundhabe, Xaskul and I even heard of Saruur of Habar Gidir having migrated there too.

Forensic data and microvariant sequence characterization of 27 Y-STR loci analyzed in four Eastern African countries.

It has been a while since I accessed it and do not have a free copy to view. A Google search will bring up the paper.
Bulletproofpride 12/21/2022 1:46:00 AM

My nebula package has arrived in the UK. It should reach my house soon.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 4:54:00 AM

My nebula package has arrived at my door step. I’m going to send it off tomorrow.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 5:08:00 AM

Guys do we have any sheekhaal samples? Is it true they carry E-m81? If so, how did they manage to become so widespread? Are the sheekhaal in Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia all connected? I’m asking because I have Sheekhaal cousins from Kenya-Garissa.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/22/2022 6:09:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Sheekhaal is a job profession, they spread the deen, so not all will share the same origin. The aw Khutub Sheekhaal carry Berver linked E-m81, there homeland in the Horn is Harar region . Make sure you register your kit, your kit number is on the testing tube.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 8:08:00 AM

The instructions have changed. I remember seeing videos of people break the swab inside the vial. Now you put the swab inside the tube that contains liquid and move it up and down 30 times. You take the swab out and discard it. The swabs don’t have the ability to snap as seen in tutorials online. Your DNA is contained within the solution inside the vial.
Garaacad 12/22/2022 8:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

My nebula package has arrived at my door step. I’m going to send it off tomorrow.

From now on only check your emails from Nebula on a monthly basis. The excitement wears off over time. This will take a couple of months. Have you done any form of DNA testing prior to this? Always upload to YFull regardless of how happy you are with your results. What I mean by this is if you discover your haplogroup is, in fact, T or J, etc. Do you know your haplogroup?

Bear in mind, you can fail Nebula's QC (quality control) stage. This is always a possibility.

I wouldn't rush to send off your kit, for example, if you send your kit off next week it wouldn't have a noticeable effect on the turnaround time.

Useful info about returning your kit:

What address do I return my kit to?

For orders in the US, the return postage is pre-paid and labeled on the provided envelope. For international orders, you will need to provide your own postage with the following return address: Nebula Genomics 711 Stewart Ave suite 200 Garden City, NY 11530, USA

Found at: https://nebula.org/faqs/

Pay extra for tracking it is worthwhile.
Garaacad 12/22/2022 8:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Sorry I’m not very educated on the classification of the Darood tribes. So, so far only MJ are positive for E-BY8081? I’m asking all these questions to get a clearer picture of what could have happened in the past for Murusade to be paternally related to MJ. You would think that other Harti would be closer paternally but it seems to be not the case. Unfortunately we haven’t got a strong written tradition like our Yemeni and Habesha neighbours.

I appreciate it, but I think our MCRA (most common recent ancestor) wasn't a historical figure.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys do we have any sheekhaal samples? Is it true they carry E-m81? If so, how did they manage to become so widespread? Are the sheekhaal in Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia all connected? I’m asking because I have Sheekhaal cousins from Kenya-Garissa.

They aren't useful from a genealogical perspective. I'm not too invested in their results, I just know they are a confederacy.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 9:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

From now on only check your emails from Nebula on a monthly basis. The excitement wears off over time. This will take a couple of months. Have you done any form of DNA testing prior to this? Always upload to YFull regardless of how happy you are with your results. What I mean by this is if you discover your haplogroup is, in fact, T or J, etc. Do you know your haplogroup?

Bear in mind, you can fail Nebula's QC (quality control) stage. This is always a possibility.

I wouldn't rush to send off your kit, for example, if you send your kit off next week it wouldn't have a noticeable effect on the turnaround time.

Useful info about returning your kit:

What address do I return my kit to?

For orders in the US, the return postage is pre-paid and labeled on the provided envelope. For international orders, you will need to provide your own postage with the following return address: Nebula Genomics 711 Stewart Ave suite 200 Garden City, NY 11530, USA

Found at: https://nebula.org/faqs/

Pay extra for tracking it is worthwhile.

I hope I pass the quality control. Im 99% sure it will be E-BY8081.Thats of course if the previous Murusade guy was 100% murusade. Im excited indeed. How many months will it take? Im sending it off as soon as the post office opens.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 9:09:00 AM

I get the feeling I will fail the quality control. Something is telling me I haven’t followed the instructions properly despite reading it 1000 times.
Garaacad 12/22/2022 9:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I hope I pass the quality control. Im 99% sure it will be E-BY8081.Thats of course if the previous Murusade guy was 100% murusade. Im excited indeed. How many months will it take? Im sending it off as soon as the post office opens.

Sorry for the late response but generally, 2-3 months. Haha, DNA never changes bro eventually the excitement will wear off.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I get the feeling I will fail the quality control. Something is telling me I haven’t followed the instructions properly despite reading it 1000 times.

Don't worry about it. People rarely fail QC.
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 9:42:00 AM

@Garaacad, are the Hawiye, Dir, Darood & Isaaq not a confederacy as well considering the fact that they all belong to different haplogroups? The sheekhaal just happen to be a smaller confederacy. What do you think?
Garaacad 12/22/2022 9:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad, are the Hawiye, Dir, Darood & Isaaq not a confederacy as well considering the fact that they all belong to different haplogroups? The sheekhaal just happen to be a smaller confederacy. What do you think?

I meant they aren't genealogically useful to us. Sheikhaals wouldn't score E-BY8081. The percentages are different in major clans it's usually a difference of 70 to 30. With a single haplogroup/subclade being found in 70% of all claimants. In Sheikhaals I think there is a more even distribution of haplogroup/subclades.

E-M81 carrying Sheikhaals descend from medieval-era Maghrebi Sheikhs. More information on this can be found in the Futuh. Scroll through this thread Drobbah has touched on this.
Saeed 12/22/2022 10:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys do we have any sheekhaal samples? Is it true they carry E-m81? If so, how did they manage to become so widespread? Are the sheekhaal in Kenya, Ethiopia and Somalia all connected? I’m asking because I have Sheekhaal cousins from Kenya-Garissa.

I'm not very knowledgeable on clans, but I have a Sheekhaal match on 23andMe that is E-V32, he is Sheekhaal Loobage, after looking them up I saw that they abtirsi to Hiraab, so that makes sense, though I'm not sure how they connect to other Sheekhaal.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The instructions have changed. I remember seeing videos of people break the swab inside the vial. Now you put the swab inside the tube that contains liquid and move it up and down 30 times. You take the swab out and discard it. The swabs don’t have the ability to snap as seen in tutorials online. Your DNA is contained within the solution inside the vial.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I get the feeling I will fail the quality control. Something is telling me I haven’t followed the instructions properly despite reading it 1000 times.

Yh I had a tough time snapping it, it didn't have the black mark that I saw in the videos I watched, I ended up spilling a bit of the liquid and was thinking my sample would fail but thankly it didn't.

If it fails for you, they'll send you a new one so it's no big deal.
Monk307 12/22/2022 10:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

From now on only check your emails from Nebula on a monthly basis. The excitement wears off over time. This will take a couple of months. Have you done any form of DNA testing prior to this? Always upload to YFull regardless of how happy you are with your results. What I mean by this is if you discover your haplogroup is, in fact, T or J, etc. Do you know your haplogroup?

Bear in mind, you can fail Nebula's QC (quality control) stage. This is always a possibility.

I wouldn't rush to send off your kit, for example, if you send your kit off next week it wouldn't have a noticeable effect on the turnaround time.

Useful info about returning your kit:

What address do I return my kit to?

For orders in the US, the return postage is pre-paid and labeled on the provided envelope. For international orders, you will need to provide your own postage with the following return address: Nebula Genomics 711 Stewart Ave suite 200 Garden City, NY 11530, USA

Found at: https://nebula.org/faqs/

Pay extra for tracking it is worthwhile.

Doesn't his signature already say E1b1b1a1a2? So how can he be T or J, or am I missing something?
Bulletproofpride 12/22/2022 11:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by Monk307

Doesn't his signature already say E1b1b1a1a2? So how can he be T or J, or am I missing something?

Lol I made this signature 10 years ago. I never had a DNA sample taken, I was just sure back then that I would end up testing positive for E-v32 like majority of the Somalis. There were only a handful of studies back then and all of them claimed Somalis were overwhelmingly E-v32. It’s only now through the results of private tests that we have a lot of T and some good amounts of E1b1b (xE-v32) and J1 among us.
Bulletproofpride 12/23/2022 12:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I meant they aren't genealogically useful to us. Sheikhaals wouldn't score E-BY8081. The percentages are different in major clans it's usually a difference of 70 to 30. With a single haplogroup/subclade being found in 70% of all claimants. In Sheikhaals I think there is a more even distribution of haplogroup/subclades.

E-M81 carrying Sheikhaals descend from medieval-era Maghrebi Sheikhs. More information on this can be found in the Futuh. Scroll through this thread Drobbah has touched on this.

Yes you are right about the Maghrebi presence in the Adal region. I was just wondering how did these sheekhaal spread so fast all over the Horn. I heard of Sheekhaal Jazeera, sheekhaal in Harar-Hararghe region, sheekhaal in Galmudug and my cousin who is sheekhaal from Kenya/Garissa.
Bulletproofpride 12/23/2022 12:21:00 AM

@saeed

I did the same. Dropped a tiny bit of the liquid trying to snap the swap.

I heard the sheekhaal are hiiraab but then I read they are “Geust of Hiiraab”. I’m also wondering how all of them across the horn became connected with the name Sheekhaal.
farjanomar 12/24/2022 3:17:00 AM

@Netnomad @Nujahid Nur @Garaacad

The first Nuux Maxmuud/Gaalgale sample has joined the ftdna Somali Project with Y37 marker test. His STRs look like E-Y163949 positive. Its only one sample, we will need more samples to see what the majority of the clan carry.
Garaacad 12/24/2022 3:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Netnomad @Nujahid Nur @Garaacad

The first Nuux Maxmuud/Gaalgale sample has joined the ftdna Somali Project with Y37 marker test. His STRs look like E-Y163949 positive. Its only one sample, we will need more samples to see what the majority of the clan carry.

Nuux Maxamuud claim to be Maxamuud Saleebaan but they aren't. Some uninformed MJs do claim them but they are not related to us. This result clearly confirms my suspicions.

They haven't been in contact with other Daaroods/MJs so why expect any Y diversity in the Nuux Maxamuud.
s1abx 12/25/2022 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Nuux Maxamuud claim to be Maxamuud Saleebaan but they aren't. Some uninformed MJs do claim them but they are not related to us. This result clearly confirms my suspicions.

They haven't been in contact with other Daaroods/MJs so why expect any Y diversity in the Nuux Maxamuud.

Just wanted to drop, they are a group of people who used to live with Abgaal. They used to claim Hawiye back then, not sure of their abtiris but around the civil war they became MJ as they made a deal with them. Some of them claim Gabooye, some Hawiye but majority claim MJ today. One person told me the real abtiris for them is Galgale Abroone, who is the grandfather of Samaale.
Bulletproofpride 12/25/2022 12:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Just wanted to drop, they are a group of people who used to live with Abgaal. They used to claim Hawiye back then, not sure of their abtiris but around the civil war they became MJ as they made a deal with them. Some of them claim Gabooye, some Hawiye but majority claim MJ today. One person told me the real abtiris for them is Galgale Abroone, who is the grandfather of Samaale.

Interesting, who are these people that switch clans like this?
s1abx 12/25/2022 3:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Interesting, who are these people that switch clans like this?

This is what I heard, but they used to live with Abgaal as what you call slaves in a place called Geedi Xeer. When the civil war came they made an agreement with MJ that they will back them against Hawiye and they will become Nuux Maxamud, which apparently already existed but was very small. A lot of them moved to Garowe and Kismaayo and even up to South Africa in hoardes hence why you hear MJ are the most in SA, but a few still live in Xamar.
Garaacad 12/25/2022 4:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Just wanted to drop, they are a group of people who used to live with Abgaal. They used to claim Hawiye back then, not sure of their abtiris but around the civil war they became MJ as they made a deal with them. Some of them claim Gabooye, some Hawiye but majority claim MJ today. One person told me the real abtiris for them is Galgale Abroone, who is the grandfather of Samaale.

Their origins are clearly in PL. No carrier of E-Y163949 can descend from Samaale or Abroone.

Originally Posted by s1abx

This is what I heard, but they used to live with Abgaal as what you call slaves in a place called Geedi Xeer. When the civil war came they made an agreement with MJ that they will back them against Hawiye and they will become Nuux Maxamud, which apparently already existed but was very small. A lot of them moved to Garowe and Kismaayo and even up to South Africa in hoardes hence why you hear MJ are the most in SA, but a few still live in Xamar.

That is bullshit sxb. They were never related to us. Maxamuud Saleebaan had 3 known sons; Cumar, Ciise, and Cismaan. All three correctly match each other and share a subclade (E-BY217865).

I honestly have no clue about their true origins. For all we know, they may have migrated South centuries ago.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/25/2022 4:16:00 AM

Galgale live in parts of the mountains of Calmadow in Bari, if they were migrants to Puntland you will expect them to live mainly in urban areas. So are the Galgale in the Highlands of Calmadow recent migrants to Bari lol
Garaacad 12/25/2022 4:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Galgale live in parts of the mountains of Calmadow in Bari, if they were migrants to Puntland you will expect them to live mainly in urban areas. So are the Galgale in the Highlands of Calmadow recent migrants to Bari?

They migrated South from Puntland. They likely migrated before the formation of many Daarood clans, which is why many don't know they exist. The Galgala mountain range has nothing to do with the Nuux Maxamuud/Gaalgale clan.
Bulletproofpride 12/25/2022 5:55:00 AM

@Garaacad, why can’t the branch E-163949 be Samaale? Is it because it’s the proto Darood branch? @Mujahid, is that not your branch?
Sakhar 12/25/2022 6:02:00 AM

@Mujahid is confusing clans here i.e. Gahayle with Nuux Maxamuud.
Garaacad 12/25/2022 6:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sakhar

@Mujahid is confusing clans here i.e. Gahayle with Nuux Maxamuud.

I'm just asking out of pure curiosity, but are you Gahayle?
s1abx 12/25/2022 6:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Their origins are clearly in PL. No carrier of E-Y163949 can descend from Samaale or Abroone.

That is bullshit sxb. They were never related to us. Maxamuud Saleebaan had 3 known sons; Cumar, Ciise, and Cismaan. All three correctly match each other and share a subclade (E-BY217865).

I honestly have no clue about their true origins. For all we know, they may have migrated South centuries ago.

Isn’t there other Maxamud Saleeban clans such as Muuse Maxamud etc.? The Italians used to list them under Maxamud Saleeban, what was interesting is they never listed Galgale as MJ as there were no MJ in Middle Shabelle listed, but I know for a fact Galgale used to live there back then. I will double check and see what they were listed as though. They generally listed clans correctly anyway, such as Xawaadle under Pre-Hawiye.
s1abx 12/25/2022 6:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad, why can’t the branch E-163949 be Samaale? Is it because it’s the proto Darood branch? @Mujahid, is that not your branch?

Only Daroods are positive for that branch, and the time it is related to E-Y18637 with crosses out any ability of E-Y18629 being Awoowe Samaale. Also sxb I’d like to ask you some questions privately, I am Abgaal if that helps.
Garaacad 12/25/2022 6:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Galgale live in parts of the mountains of Calmadow in Bari, if they were migrants to Puntland you will expect them to live mainly in urban areas. So are the Galgale in the Highlands of Calmadow recent migrants to Bari lol

There are several Siwaaqroon subclans living in Eastern Bari yet to be tested. Gahayle isn't the only Siwaaqroon subclan. Any cases of E-Y163949 found amongst the Gahayle can obviously be attributed to Warsangelis surrounding them.

Gahayle only moved to Sanaag because of an ongoing blood feud in Bari. They are not native to Sanaag.
Bulletproofpride 12/25/2022 6:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Only Daroods are positive for that branch, and the time it is related to E-Y18637 with crosses out any ability of E-Y18629 being Awoowe Samaale. Also sxb I’d like to ask you some questions privately, I am Abgaal if that helps.

My reer abti are abgal lol. Sure go ahead.
Sakhar 12/25/2022 5:32:00 PM

Garacad I am not Gahayle but I figured when Calmadow/Sanaag was mentioned that Gahayle and Galgale was mixed up after all both start with a 'G' for diaspora children sometimes the first letter counts and foreigners too.

BTW that is what Canada Immigration said about Galgale in 1996. The 'source' is likely Hawiye and very biased given that Abgaal committed hideous arbitrary killing on the Galgale as revenge in a school in Mogadishu just out of spite, xenophobia and hatred for them!

"The following information was provided by a Somali specialist at Savannah State College in Savannah, Georgia in a telephone interview on 11 April 1996.

According to the source, the Galgale do not fit into any major clan lineage in Somalia; however they have traditionally been associated with the Hawiye clan family. The Galgale, who have no particular locale where they are the dominant subclan, usually lived amongst Hawiye subclans. While the source was unable to specify whether they lived with a particular subclan of the Hawiye, the source stated that the Galgale could be found in the inter-riverine area of Somalia, between the Juba and Shebelle rivers, Kismayo and Mogadishu.

The Galgale would not likely be targeted by other groups because they are a small group themselves with no territory or resources. Thus, they pose no threat to other subclans, nor offer any particular advantage in terms of property. However, the situation of the Galgale would be similar to that of any other Somali clan which runs the risk of being victimised by the eruption of clan fighting in a particular area. In addition, the Galgale did not play a role in Somali politics prior to the fall of the Siad Barre government and so are not likely to be victimised for their politics."
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 1:58:00 AM

What clans are the guys under E-Y18637* and E-FT420077?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/27/2022 2:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What clans are the guys under E-Y18637* and E-FT420077?

They are ugaaslabe and the upstream mudug sample is Ogaden reer Cabdile, reer warfa. Yes I'm E-163949, my sample is up there.
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 3:02:00 AM

Egyptians have traded with Punt since the 4th dynasty in the Old Kingdom period some 4500 years ago. Recent Kadruka samples show Cushitic people were in Lower Nubia during Middle Kingdom period roughly 4000 years ago. Laas geel paintings are dated to the 5500 to 4500 years ago. The TMRCA of Z813 which bunch of Somalis and Kenyans (Cushitic) is dated to 4300 years ago. That one Egyptian under E-18759 must have migrated northwards from the Eritrean- Somaliland coast. No way Somalis were up north near the Sudanese-Egyptian border as late as 1600 BC.
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 3:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

They are ugaaslabe and the upstream mudug sample is Ogaden reer Cabdile, reer warfa. Yes I'm E-163949, my sample is up there.

Are Ugaaslabe warsengeli?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/27/2022 3:36:00 AM

Coastal route

Edit

Red Sea crossing

By some 50–70,000 years ago, a subset of the bearers of mitochondrial haplogroup L3 migrated from East Africa into the Near East. It has been estimated that from a population of 2,000 to 5,000 individuals in Africa, only a small group, possibly as few as 150 to 1,000 people, crossed the Red Sea.[57][58] The group that crossed the Red Sea travelled along the coastal route around Arabia and the Persian Plateau to India, which appears to have been the first major settling point.[59] Wells (2003) argued for the route along the southern coastline of Asia, across about 250 kilometres (155 mi)[dubious – discuss], reaching Australia by around 50,000 years ago.

Today at the Bab-el-Mandeb straits, the Red Sea is about 20 kilometres (12 mi) wide, but 50,000 years ago sea levels were 70 m (230 ft) lower (owing to glaciation) and the water was much narrower. Though the straits were never completely closed, they were narrow enough to have enabled crossing using simple rafts, and there may have been islands in between.[38][60] Shell middens 125,000 years old have been found in Eritrea,[61] indicating the diet of early humans included seafood obtained by beachcombing.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/27/2022 3:47:00 AM

We have two Yameni basal samples with a TMRC'S of 65200 ybp, roughly when the out of the Africa theory took place, those Yameni samples have spent over 60 thousand years around the Bab El mandeb, on the Eurasia side after there fore fathers took that journey in the so called out of the Africa migration. They both belong to haplogroup D. https://www.yfull.com/tree/D*/

It's very amazing those two Yameni samples carry the oldest basal D lineage and they still inhabit where haplogroups D and CF, first dispersed in Eurasia, this makes sense.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 12/27/2022 4:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Egyptians have traded with Punt since the 4th dynasty in the Old Kingdom period some 4500 years ago. Recent Kadruka samples show Cushitic people were in Lower Nubia during Middle Kingdom period roughly 4000 years ago. Laas geel paintings are dated to the 5500 to 4500 years ago. The TMRCA of Z813 which bunch of Somalis and Kenyans (Cushitic) is dated to 4300 years ago. That one Egyptian under E-18759 must have migrated northwards from the Eritrean- Somaliland coast. No way Somalis were up north near the Sudanese-Egyptian border as late as 1600 BC.

It's very possible that the Somali lineages suddenly migrated from southern Egypt, north Sudan coast to the Somali paninsuala ramember there were no Abysinians in Eritrea at that time, so they could have easily made a very shorth migration along the arid Eritrean coastline into the Somali paninsuala. The Egyptian and the Somali lineages likely got seperated around 2-3 thousand years ago around the Eritrean lowlands, when there was a sudden Sabean mass migration from Arabia, while the Oromo at rhar time were living in the Somali paninsuala, later on, the Oromo got pushed away from the Somali paninsuala by a more dominant Somali lineage migration from the lowlands of Eritrea.
drobbah 12/27/2022 5:01:00 AM

The Egyptian and two Northern Saudis downstream of him belong to a brother clade of ours that remained in North Africa.The Oromos,Luhya and some Somalis belong to the other branch of E-Z813 that arrived earlier to the Horn (probably with the main pastoralist wave) than the founder effect lineage of E-Y18629 that dominates us today including the majority of us on this forum.There are plethora of cultures that could be responsible for bringing our lineage which via a founder effect managed to dominate this East Cushitic proto-Somaloid ethnic group, same goes for the Arabian T-M70 and J-P58 folks.Those three lineages probably account for 80-90% of Somali males

The Palestinian divergent E-Z813* sample probably brought there by early Egyptian Empires further strengthens E-Z813 more Northern origin.The other E-V32 subclades dominated by the Sudanese,Sahelians and Eritreans,Ethiopians seem to be more southern in origin tbh
s1abx 12/27/2022 5:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are Ugaaslabe warsengeli?

Politically yes, but they are said to be descended from an Indian man.
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 5:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

It's very possible that the Somali lineages suddenly migrated from southern Egypt, north Sudan coast to the Somali paninsuala ramember there were no Abysinians in Eritrea at that time, so they could have easily made a very shorth migration along the arid Eritrean coastline into the Somali paninsuala. The Egyptian and the Somali lineages likely got seperated around 2-3 thousand years ago around the Eritrean lowlands, when there was a sudden Sabean mass migration from Arabia, while the Oromo at rhar time were living in the Somali paninsuala, later on, the Oromo got pushed away from the Somali paninsuala by a more dominant Somali lineage migration from the lowlands of Eritrea.

The thing is there are Kenyans and Somalis on the more upstream lineage (E-Z813). This entire branch has no Sudanese , Eritrean or Chad people on it. The 1st bunch of Sudanese, Eritrean and Chad people start appearing on the upstream mutation E-CTS2294. It is this ancestral clade that has left the Egyptian/Sudanese border not the downstream E-17859 which seems to have been born in the Horn together with its brother E-Z21175.
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 5:43:00 AM

@Drobbah E-Y28701 seems to be the northern branch as it contains all the Saudi and other Arab people. That’s the branch that migrated northwards and entered Arabia via the Sinai from the Egyptian/Sudanese border while another branch went westwards towards Chad. You are right with the northern origin of E-Z813. Stuff looks complicated.
Bulletproofpride 12/27/2022 6:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Politically yes, but they are said to be descended from an Indian man.

Why do they test positive for E-V32 then?
s1abx 12/27/2022 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why do they test positive for E-V32 then?

Most likely their ancestor was actually Somali from another clan, not a Indian.
drobbah 12/28/2022 4:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Drobbah E-Y28701 seems to be the northern branch as it contains all the Saudi and other Arab people. That’s the branch that migrated northwards and entered Arabia via the Sinai from the Egyptian/Sudanese border while another branch went westwards towards Chad. You are right with the northern origin of E-Z813. Stuff looks complicated.

E-Y28701 is not the Northern branch…it is most likely the Southern branch that resided in modern Northern Sudan.The clade breaks into two branches: the Sahelians (probably left Sudan with those early Chadic speakers) and the Sudanese/Northern Horn branch.The Arabs depending which of these two branches they belong to either have recent Islamic Era ancestry from the Sahel or Ancient ancestry/Islamic era ancestry from Nubia or the Northern Horn.

E-Z813 imo is the more Northern branch with the Palestinian and an Egyptian both being E-Z813* belonging to very divergent clades that stayed in Egypt.For the downstream two branches, one seems to have arrived earlier than Somali dominated E-FT18121, our brother clade has a basal Egyptian with downstream two Saudis from the NW bordering the Southern Levant and the Sinai. E-FT18121 Somalis could be descendants of individuals or a small clan of pastoralists who left Egyptian Eastern Deserts around ~1500 BCE and were probably Pan-Grave cultural group that ventured south into Eastern Sudan and then further south through Djibouti/Eritrea into the Horn.The Jebel Mokram culture is a very good candidate

Actually, the number and the variety of Pan-Grave ceramic traits characterizing the Jebel Mokram Group pottery from the very beginning and the rapidity characterizing the stylistic change in the ceramic assemblage at the transition between Gash Group and Jebel Mokram Group (see above and also Sadr 1990, 69) suggest that c. 1800 BC a significant change occurred in the relationship between Eastern Sudan and the Eastern Desert.

Figure 16. Graph showing the maximum, minimum and aver- age diameter of the vessels in the transition from Gash Group to Jebel Mokram Group, as in the Gash Group (SUs 30-45) and Jebel Mokram Group assem- blages (SUs 15, 7-8, 5-6) from the stratigraphic sequence of excavation unit K1 VI at site Mahal Teglinos (K1).

Figure 17. Graph showing the maximum, minimum and aver- age wall thickness of the vessels in the transition from Gash Group to Jebel Mokram Group, as in the Gash Group (SUs 30- 45) and Jebel Mokram Group assemblages (SUs 15, 7-8, 5-6) from the stratigraphic sequence of excavation unit K1 VI at site Mahal Teglinos (K1).

The general explanation for this change may be provided either by a migration of groups from the Eastern Desert around c. 1800 BC or by a newly established pattern of regular and repeated seasonal movements of mobile livestock herd- ers based on the southern fringes of the Eastern Desert that were now interacting more intensively with Eastern Sudan (see also Sadr 1987, 280-282, 286-287).
Bulletproofpride 12/29/2022 2:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-Y28701 is not the Northern branch…it is most likely the Southern branch that resided in modern Northern Sudan.The clade breaks into two branches: the Sahelians (probably left Sudan with those early Chadic speakers) and the Sudanese/Northern Horn branch.The Arabs depending which of these two branches they belong to either have recent Islamic Era ancestry from the Sahel or Ancient ancestry/Islamic era ancestry from Nubia or the Northern Horn.

E-Z813 imo is the more Northern branch with the Palestinian and an Egyptian both being E-Z813* belonging to very divergent clades that stayed in Egypt.For the downstream two branches, one seems to have arrived earlier than Somali dominated E-FT18121, our brother clade has a basal Egyptian with downstream two Saudis from the NW bordering the Southern Levant and the Sinai. E-FT18121 Somalis could be descendants of individuals or a small clan of pastoralists who left Egyptian Eastern Deserts around ~1500 BCE and were probably Pan-Grave cultural group that ventured south into Eastern Sudan and then further south through Djibouti/Eritrea into the Horn.The Jebel Mokram culture is a very good candidate

E-FGC14382 is definitely northern. It has loads of Arabs on different sub clades some of whom are ancient. The few Sudanese and Eritreans are Semitic. You will see ‘Arab’ and ‘Tigray’ next to their flags. They definitely entered the horn with J1, Em34, T etc. Same with the E-BY8025 which has bunch of Arabs on it and no African. This also explains the Cushitic substratum in certain Semitic languages in Arabia.

E-Z813 is neither northern nor southern. Some sub clades of it migrated southwards while others got absorbed into the Egyptian civilisation hence the Palestinian and the Kuwaiti. If it really did migrate northwards via the Sinai into the Arabian peninsula like the other northern branches we would have seen plenty of peninsular Arabs and Levantine testing positive for it.

Anyways which groups are responsible for the Laas Geel paintings? Do you think the datings for these paintings are accurate? And, since E-v32 is the dominant subclade in the Horn and was up north in Sudan/Egypt that late, why do Somalis and other groups in the horn not score any Ancient Egyptian or Anatolian farmer ancestry?
Bulletproofpride 12/29/2022 4:22:00 AM

Guys I’m trying to get some Karanle (Murusade and non-murusade) to take the test. What exactly should I say and what link should I give them to test with?
Garaacad 12/29/2022 4:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys I’m trying to get some Karanle (Murusade and non-murusade) to take the test. What exactly should I say and what link should I give them to test with?

Just explain the unknown connection between MRs and MJs. That should get the MRs interested. Tell the Karanles it is a Hawiye gene test. Get them to test through Nebula:

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Hmm, how far up the tree are you going? What subclans do the Murusades belong to?
Bulletproofpride 12/29/2022 5:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Just explain the unknown connection between MRs and MJs. That should get the MRs interested. Tell the Karanles it is a Hawiye gene test. Get them to test through Nebula:

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Hmm, how far up the tree are you going? What subclans do the Murusades belong to?

So far I spoke to one Gidir Karanle. I’m trying to get access to the Karanle private group chat that has loads of forculus on it.
Garaacad 12/29/2022 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So far I spoke to one Gidir Karanle. I’m trying to get access to the Karanle private group chat that has loads of forculus on it.

Have you been successful in convincing the Gidir Karanle guy? Is the Karanle private group chat on Facebook or elsewhere?
Bulletproofpride 12/29/2022 6:42:00 AM

He told me to pass the link. He seems to be scared of the price because he turned silent straight afterwards. The group chat is on twitter. He still hasn’t invited me in the group chat. I will have to talk to them separately.
Garaacad 12/29/2022 6:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He told me to pass the link. He seems to be scared of the price because he turned silent straight afterwards. The group chat is on twitter. He still hasn’t invited me in the group chat. I will have to talk to them separately.

$199 is fairly affordable. You should tell him to change the membership from Lifetime to Yearly. You promoted the Deep test, right?

You should also probably explain the yearly fee.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

By the way, tell him and others to follow this subreddit for processing times:
Bulletproofpride 12/29/2022 7:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

$199 is fairly affordable. You should tell him to change the membership from Lifetime to Yearly. You promoted the Deep test, right?

You should also probably explain the yearly fee.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

By the way, tell him and others to follow this subreddit for processing times:

How do I explain the yearly fee again. It says 199 but then you have yearly membership of 12.49 a month
drobbah 12/29/2022 4:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

E-FGC14382 is definitely northern. It has loads of Arabs on different sub clades some of whom are ancient. The few Sudanese and Eritreans are Semitic. You will see ‘Arab’ and ‘Tigray’ next to their flags. They definitely entered the horn with J1, Em34, T etc. Same with the E-BY8025 which has bunch of Arabs on it and no African. This also explains the Cushitic substratum in certain Semitic languages in Arabia.

It’s not Northern at all,we already have medieval Christian Nubians who also belonged there alongside Habeshas,Agaw,Sudanese Arabs,Tigre under one branch with Arabs who probably descend from those populations while the Kuwaitis mostly belong to a Sahelian branch.Arabians are overrepsented because they test more.The moment that Christian Nubian study came out it just further proves that the lineage is indigenous to Sudan and those “Semitic” Hornets still carry significant Cushitic associated lineages like https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC14382/

Interestingly a Libyan from the Nafusa mountains has been added to the Sahelian E-V5933
Bulletproofpride 12/30/2022 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It’s not Northern at all,we already have medieval Christian Nubians who also belonged there alongside Habeshas,Agaw,Sudanese Arabs,Tigre under one branch with Arabs who probably descend from those populations while the Kuwaitis mostly belong to a Sahelian branch.Arabians are overrepsented because they test more.The moment that Christian Nubian study came out it just further proves that the lineage is indigenous to Sudan and those “Semitic” Hornets still carry significant Cushitic associated lineages like https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC14382/

Interestingly a Libyan from the Nafusa mountains has been added to the Sahelian E-V5933

Can you show me the medieval Nubian samples with FGC14382. Medieval times is recent history while some of these Arabs sit on clades that are over 4300 years old.
Bulletproofpride 12/30/2022 1:40:00 AM

@s1abx, Garaacad, Mujahid etc

I spoke to 1 Gidir, 1 furculus and 1 non israfeel Abakar Sabti. I told them to take the nebula whole genome sequencing test and I showed them the YFull tree. I told them that an israfeel guy plotted with bunch of MJ on the same branch and that Hiraab were on a completely different branch separated by 2600 years. I gave them the link to the nebula and explained to them how you can cancel the yearly subscription. I gave them the link to this forum including this thread. Two of them already had doing 23&me on their mind before I even said anything about Nebula whole genome testing. They also told me that Karanle had presence in Puntland back in the days. Hopefully one of them gets tested.

I noticed their is a sixaawle Karanle person on sspot eager to take a test. Mujahid was even chatting with him.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/h....124767/page-3
Garaacad 12/30/2022 6:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@s1abx, Garaacad, Mujahid etc

I spoke to 1 Gidir, 1 furculus and 1 non israfeel Abakar Sabti. I told them to take the nebula whole genome sequencing test and I showed them the YFull tree. I told them that an israfeel guy plotted with bunch of MJ on the same branch and that Hiraab were on a completely different branch separated by 2600 years. I gave them the link to the nebula and explained to them how you can cancel the yearly subscription. I gave them the link to this forum including this thread. Two of them already had doing 23&me on their mind before I even said anything about Nebula whole genome testing. They also told me that Karanle had presence in Puntland back in the days. Hopefully one of them gets tested.

I noticed their is a sixaawle Karanle person on sspot eager to take a test. Mujahid was even chatting with him.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/h....124767/page-3

Try and follow up on them. They may not join this forum.
Garaacad 1/2/2023 5:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Isn’t there other Maxamud Saleeban clans such as Muuse Maxamud etc.? The Italians used to list them under Maxamud Saleeban, what was interesting is they never listed Galgale as MJ as there were no MJ in Middle Shabelle listed, but I know for a fact Galgale used to live there back then. I will double check and see what they were listed as though. They generally listed clans correctly anyway, such as Xawaadle under Pre-Hawiye.

I'm not sure about the existence of Muuse Maxamuud. However, there are some subclades (E-BY8088* & E-BY8085*) with no genealogical basis to them.

We need the result of other Saleebaans to figure this out. The Ali Saleebaan sample (id: YF085979) should have fallen under E-BY8085.

@Omaar What do you know about id: YF004490? You mentioned he was a Somali Ashraf. I thought he descended from a Nuux Maxamuud (Gaalgale) but now I have to revise that theory.
Omaar 1/2/2023 3:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@Omaar What do you know about id: YF004490? You mentioned he was a Somali Ashraf. I thought he descended from a Nuux Maxamuud (Gaalgale) but now I have to revise that theory.

His Kit Number is "308061".
s1abx 1/4/2023 4:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I'm not sure about the existence of Muuse Maxamuud. However, there are some subclades (E-BY8088* & E-BY8085*) with no genealogical basis to them.

We need the result of other Saleebaans to figure this out. The Ali Saleebaan sample (id: YF085979) should have fallen under E-BY8085.

@Omaar What do you know about id: YF004490? You mentioned he was a Somali Ashraf. I thought he descended from a Nuux Maxamuud (Gaalgale) but now I have to revise that theory.

By the way, have you seen any Howrarsame or Habar Yacqub? results? I’d be very interested to see what they get. We’re they the Mareexan Oromo result? After all, they were listed as Bon by Italians, not as regular Mareexan.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/4/2023 5:34:00 AM

We don't have Habar yaqub results yet, two Garre cluster with Oromo and one Hawrarsame clusters with Northern Oromo Brantu, while reer Xussein Yusuf Marehan full under E-163949.
farjanomar 1/4/2023 10:42:00 AM

FTDNA has posted the big y result of the Murursade sample. He got a subclade E-FT350121 which is a downstream of E-BY8081.
Garaacad 1/4/2023 5:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has posted the big y result of the Murursade sample. He got a subclade E-FT350121 which is a downstream of E-BY8081.

We will have to wait for @Bulletproofpride's results for further confirmation.

@Omaar Kit 308061 is a regular Ciise Maxamuud. @Farjanomar has there been a mistake?

Edit: My bad the Galgale guy remains ungrouped.

Further edit: I have checked FTDNA's block tree and the Ytree over on YFull and, I am extremely confused. FT349555 is under E-BY217865 but is one of Y18632's SNPs. I'm still a complete newbie but can anyone explain this anomaly @Farjanomar @Omaar @Drobbah.

Same thing with E-FT350121 and E-BY217865?
Omaar 1/4/2023 10:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

We will have to wait for @Bulletproofpride's results for further confirmation.

@Omaar Kit 308061 is a regular Ciise Maxamuud. @Farjanomar has there been a mistake?

Edit: My bad the Galgale guy remains ungrouped.

Further edit: I have checked FTDNA's block tree and the Ytree over on YFull and, I am extremely confused. FT349555 is under E-BY217865 but is one of Y18632's SNPs. I'm still a complete newbie but can anyone explain this anomaly @Farjanomar @Omaar @Drobbah.

Same thing with E-FT350121 and E-BY217865?

I am not expert but i think it is all about BY217865 since it falls with in the DYZ19 region of the Y chromosome, i guess all those, who are BY8081+ can be BY217865+ too. I leave it to the others.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 12:15:00 AM

Guys let me get this through my thick skull once more. So this Murusade guy on FTDNA is the relative of the original Murusade we had on Yfull? They both Israfeel? If so, then I’m definitely going to get the same clade unless they sheegaato and not really israfeel.

It’s been 12 days since I send of my sample by post from the UK now. It was send off 2 days before Christmas so it will take longer than usual.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 12:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys let me get this through my thick skull once more. So this Murusade guy on FTDNA is the relative of the original Murusade we had on Yfull? They both Israfeel? If so, then I’m definitely going to get the same clade unless they sheegaato and not really israfeel.

It’s been 12 days since I send of my sample by post from the UK now. It was send off 2 days before Christmas so it will take longer than usual.

You're not too far off. The two Murusades are both Israfeel but they are also 3rd cousins. They share a 4th Awoowe. Whether you will share the same subclade (FT350121) as them remains to be seen.

Anything could have happened between their shared ancestor and Reer Dhaaley. I think you will share the same subclade but that's just my personal opinion.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 12:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

By the way, have you seen any Howrarsame or Habar Yacqub? results? I’d be very interested to see what they get. We’re they the Mareexan Oromo result? After all, they were listed as Bon by Italians, not as regular Mareexan.

The Bon Marexaan are probably of pre-Daarood Garre or Degodia origins. I think the Degodia and Garre were influenced by the Borana, Gabra, etc, and this likely rubbed off on Marexaans.

During their stay in Gedo, the Marexaan clan probably assimilated these individuals.

Habar Yacqubs and Howrarsames from Galgaduud are probably 99% E-Y163949. Oromo-associated subclades will not be restricted to the Habar Yacqub/Hawrarsames it is probably more of a Reer Gedo thing.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 1:09:00 AM

Dhaaley is number 8 on my abtirsi. Who knows us 3 israfeel could have an even closer relationship to each other than Dhaaley. This guy could be my 1st generation cousins for all we know. I don’t think much could have happened within the last 250 years since Dhaaley up until now but you never know. Like you said one of us could be assimilated into the clan system.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 1:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Dhaaley is number 8 on my abtirsi. Who knows us 3 israfeel could have an even closer relationship to each other than Dhaaley. This guy could be my 1st generation cousins for all we know. I don’t think much could have happened within the last 250 years since Dhaaley up until now but you never know. Like you said one of us could be assimilated into the clan system.

No, I meant they may indeed be assimilated MJs. If anything happened it was within 100 years assuming each generation lasts 25 years. Between their 4th awoowe and Dhaaley, someone could have been assimilated breaking the abtiris chain. If you don't have FT350121 then we can assume this scenario played out. This is extremely unlikely to happen through. So if you have FT350121 the abtiris is confirmed up to Dhaaley. Even if you share an ancestor before Dhaaley that is still an acceptable degree of genealogical distance.

These guys are probably strangers to you though so I think you won't share a name before Dhaaley.

We will be able to tell how far or close you guys are if you score FT350121
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 1:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys let me get this through my thick skull once more. So this Murusade guy on FTDNA is the relative of the original Murusade we had on Yfull? They both Israfeel? If so, then I’m definitely going to get the same clade unless they sheegaato and not really israfeel.

It’s been 12 days since I send of my sample by post from the UK now. It was send off 2 days before Christmas so it will take longer than usual.

Yes but they are 3rd cousins paternally, there is that small chance you won't be related to them. Correct it's the new murursade sample not the first one on Yfull.
s1abx 1/5/2023 1:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We don't have Habar yaqub results yet, two Garre cluster with Oromo and one Hawrarsame clusters with Northern Oromo Brantu, while reer Xussein Yusuf Marehan full under E-163949.

Makes sense, when they became Gabooye they assimilated a lot of Oromos.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 1:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, I meant they may indeed be assimilated MJs. If anything happened it was within 100 years assuming each generation lasts 25 years. Between their 4th awoowe and Dhaaley, someone could have been assimilated breaking the abtiris chain. If you don't have FT350121 then we can assume this scenario above played out. This is extremely unlikely to happen through. So if you have FT350121 the abtiris is confirmed up to Dhaaley. Even if you share an ancestor before Dhaaley that is still an acceptable degree of genealogical distance.

These guys are probably strangers though so I think you won't share a name before Dhaaley.

We will be able to tell how far or close you guys are if you score FT350121

What’s the maximum age difference you need to have between two individuals for them to be assigned a different clade? Dhaaley being 8 generations away I assume 8x25 is 200 years since dhaaley lived. Is 200 years old enough to be assigned a different clade? Remember this 200 year gap between us is the maximum assumed gap between us since we don’t know their lineage after Dhaaley. One of them could literally be only 1 or 2 generations away from me.

Don’t you think 1350 years ago is too old for them to be Mj. They literally tested negative for the entire E-Y18632 tree. This entire tree would have made more sense if we had Forculus or a Karanle individual test positive for E-BY8081.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 1:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Yes but they are 3rd cousins paternally, there is that small chance you won't be related to them. Correct it's the new murursade sample not the first one on Yfull.

Will the E-FT350121 split into 2 sub branches if we both are indeed descendants of dhaaley or will we share that clade together?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 1:55:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride I think the Hawiye geneology will fall apart, I think the only option is to test the grave of Hawiye, and while genome sequence him.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 2:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

I am not expert but i think it is all about BY217865 since it falls with in the DYZ19 region of the Y chromosome, i guess all those, who are BY8081+ can be BY217865+ too. I leave it to the others.

Perhaps the order is incorrect. FT350121 is probably a basal subclade. YFull gives it a low confidence rating. There were several differences at Y12 and Y37 the Murusade can't have E-BY217865.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What’s the maximum age difference you need to have between two individuals for them to be assigned a different clade? Dhaaley being 8 generations away I assume 8x25 is 200 years since dhaaley lived. Is 200 years old enough to be assigned a different clade? Remember this 200 year gap between us is the maximum assumed gap between us since we don’t know their lineage after Dhaaley. One of them could literally be only 1 or 2 generations away from me.

Don’t you think 1350 years ago is too old for them to be Mj. They literally tested negative for the entire E-Y18632 tree. This entire tree would have made more sense if we had Forculus or a Karanle individual test positive for E-BY8081.

I'm just sharing a possibility. It isn't my personal opinion. The origins of the E-Y18632 tester aren't known. You will be assigned a shared subclade as the first Murusade isn't available for comparison.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 2:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Will the E-FT350121 split into 2 sub branches if we both are indeed descendants of dhaaley or will we share that clade together?

Unfortunately, the first Murusade was removed from YFull and wasn't on FTDNA. They would've gotten a TMCRA of 125 years and they would've shared a subclade together.

You and the second Murusade will form a subclade.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 2:26:00 AM

@Garaacad, do you think there will be MJ that will test negative for 18632 but positive for BY8081?
Garaacad 1/5/2023 2:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad, do you think there will be MJ that will test negative for 18632 but positive for BY8081?

It is possible but unlikely as MJ is not an old clan. Sometimes you get intra-clan Y diversity. id: YF112511 is a perfect example of this. He is HJ but doesn't fall under the same subclade as another HJ. Both HJs are not relatively close from an abtiris perspective. HJ = Habar Jeclo.

One HJ falls under T-Y186979 whilst another falls under a likely basal subclade of T-BY181210.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-BY182320/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 3:09:00 AM

Our EV32 lineage started to expand around 5 thousand years ago. I believe this is the time when domesticated cattle first arrived in our region. While the Somali T lineage started expanding around 8 thousand years ago, that was at time when humans first started domestication of cattle.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 4:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride I think the Hawiye geneology will fall apart, I think the only option is to test the grave of Hawiye, and while genome sequence him.

I wonder if people would actually do this. 50/50 chance people would kill you before you even got near the grave. Commercial companies like Nebula don't sequence ancient DNA. You'd need to contact a nearby university. It can be done in theory but definitely not in practice.
s1abx 1/5/2023 4:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride I think the Hawiye geneology will fall apart, I think the only option is to test the grave of Hawiye, and while genome sequence him.

I have a better idea, why don’t we use our brains and test the 4 living descendants of Hawiye instead? I don’t think anyone would be interesting in digging up a 1k year body for FKD purposes, those things take time and money.
s1abx 1/5/2023 4:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has posted the big y result of the Murursade sample. He got a subclade E-FT350121 which is a downstream of E-BY8081.

How does one gain access to this site?
PLogan 1/5/2023 4:30:00 AM

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/A
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 5:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride Dhaley and Ugaas Diini lived at the sane time, Diini was also 8 generations away. He inherited Marehan Saltanate through Yusuf Matan, brother of Nur Ibn Mujahid prior to that another sub clan of reer Matan Eis held the Marehan Saltanate known as reer Garaad today. But it ended at the time of of Futuh Al Habash, after imam Ahmed Gurey deposed Garaad Hirabu from Marehan Saltanate, as Garaad Hirabu was more interested in holding the Gadabursi saltanate than the Jihad.

Interesting. I don’t know much about Ibn Mujahid other than his descendants living in Harar today. He could be Marehan but could also be Reer Nur of Geri, Reer Nur of GBiirsi and Reer Nur of Gidir who all live on the hills of Harar. Correct me if I’m wrong but the ina Nur Marehan lives in Gedo Somalia and is about 4-5 generation old which is quite recent. Could you clarify this please?

As for the imam his lineage has been thoroughly studied by different historians (Ahmed Ali sami, Mekuria T, Manfred Kropp, Kamal Berhanu, Leyla Sabaq who’s work is in the Damascus library). One thing I have noticed is that there is only 8 forefathers between the imam and Hawiye. Which means Hawiye was alive 200 years before the Adal and Abyssinian war.

[Bad Links]

Medieval towns in the vicinity of Harar that have Hawiye name. Some of these towns r until today part of Harar administration. Harar was also defended by Somalis led by Hawiye. Sh. Khalifa Muhumad was killed by Menelik in front of the Masjid that was changed to a Church in Hatar

[Bad Links]

The incident of killing Sheikh Khalifa is called "Ana Bahay/Baxay)"

h[Bad Links]

As some Historians eg Ahmed Ali Sami, Mekuria, Manfred Kropp have shown, the Imam belonged to the Malasay tribe & they undeescored that his tribe was Karanle Hawiye & Somali. Furthermore, the Ethiopian Chronicles have recorded that the Malasay were Tumurs & Tumurs were Somalis. Hobat is at Erer Yarey, near Kora between Babile & Harar while Zaka't (Da'kat (Somali pronounciation)) is made up of mountain ranges on whìch 13 of them Karanle tribe live. On these mountains pple have their farms, animals & houses. Total self sustaining units until today. The Imam would use these mountains when he was fighting Abubakar or other enemies. The Imam could stay on them for months & fight his enemies when they tried to climb the steep mountains. This paid dividend. These mountains are until today inhabited. Additionally, a medieval town called Kundudo also referred to as Qundhura (Richard Burton recorded it as Kundura) or Dameera Korey (where feral horses climb/stay) by the Somalis is where Karanle and his father Hawiye are buried.

[Bad Links]
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 5:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I have a better idea, why don’t we use our brains and test the 4 living descendants of Hawiye instead? I don’t think anyone would be interesting in digging up a 1k year body for FKD purposes, those things take time and money.

you are right we should test Gurgaarte, Xaskul, Gugundhabe, Karanle, Raarane, Jambeele and see what they would all get.
Garaacad 1/5/2023 6:11:00 AM

New Ogaden sample coming up.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/l...estion.140724/

Will be interesting to see what he scores.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 6:28:00 AM

Nur ibn Mujahid is Marehan.

In 1935, German historian Kurt Wendt wrote this interesting German-language translation of Ethiopian manuscripts dealing with Amir Nur Mujahid.

It's titled "Amharische Geschichte eines Emirs von Harar im XVI. Jahrhundert"

"Amharic story of an Emir of Harar in the XVI. century"

[Bad Link]

"Tradition testifies Emir Nur Mujahid was from Somali-Darod tribe of Marehan"

You can read the journal piece here;

[Bad Link]

The German got the complete name of Emir Nur down saying he is;

Nur Ali Abdullahi of ad-Dhuha Suha/Marehan

Marehan have his abtirsi down as

Nur Ali Abdullahi Nur Yusuf Mataan Ciis Ahmed Mohamed Da'ud Abadir of reer Hodanbari/Mareexaan.

[Bad Link]

Notice his family surname is listed as ad-Dhuha Suha family in the German piece and in Marehan geneology he is part of reer Hodanbari

Dhuha = morning

Suha: beautiful/amazing

Hodan: wealthy/amazing (dhulkaan waa hodan)

Bari ; daybreak/early morning (nabad ku bari)

The family name is basically "waking up to a beautiful, vibrant morning" or "morning light"

There's other sources independent of this that are from the 1970s that state he is Marehan. Marehan inherited the Adal Sultanate after the Imam's death. Emir Nur's descendants, the Ina Nur guarded his tomb in Harar to this day.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 6:38:00 AM

I don’t see E-BY8081 on FTDNA. After E-18637 I see BY8085 and BY192465. Other branches have 0 samples.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

New Ogaden sample coming up.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/l...estion.140724/

Will be interesting to see what he scores.

How many other Ogaden to we have already on the tree? Don’t they fall under the same branch as the one Nur ibn Mujahid get? I heard some Ogaden are assimilated Oromo. Any information?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 6:47:00 AM

There is only two Ogaden on Yfull, the E-163949 one is bah Geri Ogaden. I'm not sure which sub clan of Ogaden the guy on Somali spot is though. Obviously majority will probibally have been asimilated.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 6:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Nur ibn Mujahid is Marehan.

In 1935, German historian Kurt Wendt wrote this interesting German-language translation of Ethiopian manuscripts dealing with Amir Nur Mujahid.

It's titled "Amharische Geschichte eines Emirs von Harar im XVI. Jahrhundert"

"Amharic story of an Emir of Harar in the XVI. century"

[Bad Link]

"Tradition testifies Emir Nur Mujahid was from Somali-Darod tribe of Marehan"

You can read the journal piece here;

[Bad Link]

The German got the complete name of Emir Nur down saying he is;

Nur Ali Abdullahi of ad-Dhuha Suha/Marehan

Marehan have his abtirsi down as

Nur Ali Abdullahi Nur Yusuf Mataan Ciis Ahmed Mohamed Da'ud Abadir of reer Hodanbari/Mareexaan.

http://www.abtirsi.com/view.php?person= ... irsiLang=1

Notice his family surname is listed as ad-Dhuha Suha family in the German piece and in Marehan geneology he is part of reer Hodanbari

Dhuha = morning

Suha: beautiful/amazing

Hodan: wealthy/amazing (dhulkaan waa hodan)

Bari ; daybreak/early morning (nabad ku bari)

The family name is basically "waking up to a beautiful, vibrant morning" or "morning light"

There's other sources independent of this that are from the 1970s that state he is Marehan. Marehan inherited the Adal Sultanate after the Imam's death. Emir Nur's descendants, the Ina Nur guarded his tomb in Harar to this day.

Did you read the book? It says "according to oral tradition", do you know how many tribes have this Oral traditions?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 7:19:00 AM

The reer ina Nur in Harar consider themself reer Yusuf Matan Marehan. You even have many reer Diini sub clans in Babili, outskirts of Harar, especially reer ugaas Sharmarke, they moved around 150 years ago back to Babili and Harar to keep the Marehan their united. Also Harar is not very far until the time of Sayid Cabdile hassan Marehan lived in a continuous coridor stretching from Galmudug, into sool, west of Dhulbahsnte all the way to Jigjiga, it was in the past 100, years that the Marehan got displaced from those regions by Isaaq and Sayid Cabdile Xassan. Thats why Dhulbahante had such a huge territory, Marehan used to support them on the western flag, but this changed around the time of Sayid Cabdulle hassan, when Marehan felt they were mistreated and migrated, as a few years earlier some Marehan sub clans like reer Ahmed started settling in Gedo.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 7:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

The reer ina Nur in Harar consider themself reer Yusuf Matan Marehan. You even have many reer Diini sub clans in Babili, outskirts of Harar, especially reer ugaas Sharmarke, they moved around 150 years ago back to Babili and Harar to keep the Marehan their united. Also Harar is not very far until the time of Sayid Cabdile hassan Marehan lived in a continuous coridor stretching from Galmudug, into sool, west of Dhulbahsnte all the way to Jigjiga, it was in the past 100, years that the Marehan got displaced from those regions by Isaaq and Sayid Cabdile Xassan.

You could be right. The thing is many clans claim him today. I personally have no concrete evidence myself who he is. What I do know is that when Nur ibn Mujahid’s father was the commander, marexaan brothers were not even part of the jihad yet. How do you explain this?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 7:38:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride

In the 1800's Italian signore described from Harrar area to Sinadaqo, a suburb of Dhuusamareeb being Mareexaan country

In the end, however, Signor Robecchi was able to depart with sixteen camels, two hundred goats, and thirty-four men, making straight for the Webi. He crossed the country of the Merehan, who are Mohammedan fanatics and glory in killing an infidel. Their country is a tableland, lying between 1500 to 2000 feet above the sea, and covered with a dense growth of mimosas, acacias, and other aromatic and resinous plants---a very sea of verdure." In the centre of this country, near the wells of Sinadogo, there lies a small lake, embedded among the most luxuriant vegetation. The country swarms with game of every description, including rhinoceroses, elephants and lions, giraffes and zebras, leopards and antelopes.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 8:04:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Amir= Master/Lord

What I did not know at that time was GOYTA was the highest title given by the Amir of Harar, and later by the Kingdom of Adal after they merged.

In fact, a Goyta was second only to Amiir and it was considerably higher than a Garaad!

Of course the irony here is we all overlooked the title of "Garaad" and just assumed it had Somali origins.

Well no, Garaad was not of Somali origins but a Harari title just like Goyta. The difference is Garaad was a relatively low title and widely applied since every clan had to have a Chief (a Garaad). Because of this wide application where every Somali had a Garaad, Somalis naturally adopted the title.

A Goyta was different. A Goyta was not widely applied and was a very high title; just below Amiir. There is only one Somali clan that was powerful enough to have a Goyta. This is why Somalis did not have time to adopt it, because it was very rarely applied and was very unique and particular to the government under Harar.

Conversely, the Muslim Oromo who invaded and subsequently occupied the lands immediately surrounding Harar did adopt the Goyta and Malaaq titles; the latter which they possibly passed on to the original inhabitants of southern Somalia, the Reewin/Rahanweyn whom the Oromo/Booran neighbored. To this day the highest traditional leaders in many Reewin and southern clans is "Malaaq."

Also, a Goyta was not a political position like a Wasiir (advisor to Amiir), or an administrative position like Malaaq (head of a district) or Garaad (head of a group of tribal villages), but a Goyta was a combination of both of those things in a defensive/military capability. It was actually very similar to the European concept of DUKE (which even today is only below the Royal family and superior to all other titles in Europe). Conversely, a Garaad was essentially just a Baron and Malaaq a Viscount.

Remember that Duke originates from the title of Dux in the Roman Empire. Basically it was a trusted General who was sent to lead a province and take all the Roman legions there under his command. It wasn't a military rank, but above it in that he was both the political and military leader of the province and not just a military commander.

Later, the European monarchies conferred "Duke" on the most powerful and wealthiest landowners with the largest number of banners who were expected to be the greatest source of defense in case of invasion. In many cases, Dukes were descendents of previous Kings as sons who could not become King were given Dukedoms.

Similarly, a Goyta was a supra political-military title conferred by the Amiir for the greatest possible defender of the city of Harar and of the Kingdom of Adal. In many cases, a Goyta in the city of Harar was the son of the Amiir and a number of Amiirs were Goyta before becoming Amiir.

Outside of the city of Harar, the Kingdom of Adal only conferred Goyta on someone who could protect the caravan/trade routes. To be able to do that, you obviously must have the strongest tribe, the most powerful militia, the greatest number of banners. You must be the manifestation of the King in his owm provinces!

Essentially you were what in Game of Thrones they called a "Warden of the East/West/North/South."

Exhibit A: Administration for Harar was organized this way;

Image

At the lowest end was Garaad who was an administrative agent of tribal village or related villages.

That was followed by a Dameen who supervised a Garaad or a group of Garaads.

That was followed by a Malaaq or Malak who managed one of the 5 divisions of Harar.

That was followed by a Goyta who was a Warden/Dux for defense.

Then the Amir capped that off as the Crown.

Exhibit B: Harar had 5 gates for defense. In charge of each Gate's defense was a Goyta who served both as key holder and commander.Exhibit C; The last Harari dynasty was the Daud Dynasty.

The founder Ali bin Dawud was promoted from Malaaq/Malak to Goyta and then became a civil servant as a Wasiir. He became the next Sultan.

Similarly, one of his grandsons was a Goyta in charge of Harar's walls.

Image

Exhibit D; Harar was an interior city and access to sea trade was an existential issue. As a result, it conferred title of Goyta on those who can GAURANTEE the safety and access of caravan routes from the interior to the coasts.

In words this is modest, but what it really says who is the Harari definition of the Roman Dux!

Image

Translation: "Goyta or Capo Carovana (Head of Trade) was a TITLE used in the Kingdom of Adal for the person who could not only guide but guarantee the smooth function of trade from the interior to the coast."

Who controls the most land? Who has the most banners? Who has control of the routes and access points? Very clearly this is why the traditional leader of the Marehan was a Goyta while all other tribal leaders was simply Garaad.

It is the biggest irony that what they thought was a insult is really simply just another expression of Marehan preeminence amonst the Somalis.

To bring this all together, there are a gazillion number of more examples including even in the Futuh where other Goyta are mentioned and who always function as carrying out the most important orders of the Imam.

Such as when the Imam announces declaration of war, he calls on Ahmed Goyta to raise the banners (first three tribes the Imam directs him to call on were Marehan, Geri, and Yabbare).

Or when the Imam wants the village of a traiter Garaad to be razed, he calls on Ibrahim Goyta to lead that aftack.

As for why it sounds like Amharic or Tigray, that's because the language of Harar was/is HARARI; a Semitic Ge-ez language very close to them.

In all three languages, Goyta is a title essentially meaning "Master/Lord."

Finally, I don't know where Tedros comes from, but just because we haven't yet come across it doesn't mean an explanation doesn't exist. Personally I would wager Goita Tedros goes together and was a singular and unique Harari title for the Marehan leading family. It probably meant "Guardian's of the Realm" implying defenders of God's land as the translation implies.

The fact the family name in Marehan that has stuck since (Rida-Amir) has the exact same translation supports this possible theory.

Or Tedros could have been a simple nickname or even a name without any controversy for Hiraabe's father. After all, even today the Somali president is known by the Western non-Somali name of "Farmaajo" and not even his birth given Muslim name of Mohamed Abdullahi.

The moral is history is not math. In math, if 1 + 1 doesn't equal 2; then it doesn't exist. In history, there are a million different possibilities for why something was recorded one way.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 8:33:00 AM

@Ibn mujahid , Goita Theodorous was known to be leader of the marexaan and a Christian. He had a very bad reputation in the books. Did you read any of the books?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 9:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Ibn mujahid , Goita Theodorous was known to be leader of the marexaan and a Christian. He had a very bad reputation in the books. Did you read any of the books?

The Somalis, weary of the destruction inflicted on them went to the Imaam (Imaam Axmed), led by their (chosen) leader Hirabu. The Somalis with their leader concluded a complete peace with the Imaam.

After this, the Imaam made preparations for Jihad against Abyssinia, assembling his troops and the Somalis with their leader, Hirabu.
farjanomar 1/5/2023 12:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

We will have to wait for @Bulletproofpride's results for further confirmation.

@Omaar Kit 308061 is a regular Ciise Maxamuud. @Farjanomar has there been a mistake?

Edit: My bad the Galgale guy remains ungrouped.

Further edit: I have checked FTDNA's block tree and the Ytree over on YFull and, I am extremely confused. FT349555 is under E-BY217865 but is one of Y18632's SNPs. I'm still a complete newbie but can anyone explain this anomaly @Farjanomar @Omaar @Drobbah.

Same thing with E-FT350121 and E-BY217865?

Its confusing for me too. The ytree of E-By8081 subclades has not been easy to understand.
Typic 1/5/2023 12:45:00 PM

Got a new member on the 23andMe relative list with an interesting Y-DNA. Reer Gadiid - E-V6, 99.9% Somali, 0.1% unassigned. The individual claimed it was his mother's result, lol. I had recorded an earlier similar Y-chromosome reading, but that other individual had some Ethiopian/Eritrean + minor Levantine (4.3% Eth/Eri, 0.4% Lev), unlike this one.
farjanomar 1/5/2023 12:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How does one gain access to this site?

Familytreedna Somali Project is private. I am a member. But you can join for free with 23andme file upload. FTDNA E-M35 Project is public, but not all Somali samples are members.
farjanomar 1/5/2023 12:55:00 PM

@Garaacad @Bullerproof

For now E-FT350121 tmrca is 275 years. Here is the yfull https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y227096/
Saeed 1/5/2023 1:41:00 PM

Originally Posted by Typic

Got a new member on the 23andMe relative list with an interesting Y-DNA. Reer Gadiid - E-V6, 99.9% Somali, 0.1% unassigned. The individual claimed it was his mother's result, lol. I had recorded an earlier similar Y-chromosome reading, but that other individual had some Ethiopian/Eritrean + minor Levantine (4.3% Eth/Eri, 0.4% Lev), unlike this one.

I have an E-V6 match who is 100% Somali, I haven't spoken to him but in his details it says he is "Geri Koombe Reer Sheekh Abiyoonis".

I don't know anything about this Geri Koombe clan but I also have another match from this same clan with haplogroup A1b1-M118 (also 100% Somali).
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/5/2023 2:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I have an E-V6 match who is 100% Somali, I haven't spoken to him but in his details it says he is "Geri Koombe Reer Sheekh Abiyoonis".

I don't know anything about this Geri Koombe clan but I also have another match from this same clan with haplogroup A1b1-M118 (also 100% Somali).

Ev6 is the native Afar haplogroup, while A1b1-M118 is also common in Afar's and all the ethnicities in Eritrea. It seems some Geri sub clans migrated from Eritrea.
drobbah 1/5/2023 2:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Ev6 is the native Afar haplogroup, while A1b1-M118 is also common in Afar's and all the ethnicities in Eritrea. It seems some Geri sub clans migrated from Eritrea.

E-V6 is not a Afar haplogroup,that’s like saying E-V32 is a Somali haplogroup just because we have the highest frequencies of the haplogroup in the world.The Geri Kombe could belong to a specific Somali branch of E-V6 and the same goes for the A1b1-M118 Somalis
Typic 1/5/2023 3:20:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I have an E-V6 match who is 100% Somali, I haven't spoken to him but in his details it says he is "Geri Koombe Reer Sheekh Abiyoonis".

I don't know anything about this Geri Koombe clan but I also have another match from this same clan with haplogroup A1b1-M118 (also 100% Somali).

This guy was Habar Awal. I think that the Geri Kombe was mentioned in Ethiopia in the medieval time, now their descendants live spread out in Ethiopia, Somalia, and Kenya.

I have one guy with A1b1-M190 who is fully Somali, living in Kenya. The individual claimed to be originally from Somaliland, Hargeisa through his paternal grandfather. Most likely an Isaaq. I have another person A1b1-M118 with substantial (~20%) Arab DNA. I think the haplogroup is of an Arabian introduction.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 9:28:00 PM

Geri Koombe are found on the foothills of Harar. They were the “western most Darood” according to Richard Burton” back in those days. They were very active in the Adal wars. Considering their location E-v6 could be either from a Harla or an Afar source.
Bulletproofpride 1/5/2023 9:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Its confusing for me too. The ytree of E-By8081 subclades has not been easy to understand.

If my theory is correct, this tree would have way more branches than what we can see right now. I believe all the Karanle branches will test positive for this clade including Xaskul Hawiye and Raarane Hawiye including many Hararghe Oromo. This is my theory. Unfortunately it will take time before we get these people to test.
s1abx 1/6/2023 1:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

you are right we should test Gurgaarte, Xaskul, Gugundhabe, Karanle, Raarane, Jambeele and see what they would all get.

Like I said, there are no real Jambeele descendants today, and no Raarane descendants alive.
s1abx 1/6/2023 1:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

If my theory is correct, this tree would have way more branches than what we can see right now. I believe all the Karanle branches will test positive for this clade including Xaskul Hawiye and Raarane Hawiye including many Hararghe Oromo. This is my theory. Unfortunately it will take time before we get these people to test.

And Gorgarte? It is possible that Wadalaan and Silcis will score differently to Hiraab, but I doubt that. I don’t even know where you would find one of them, and the only one I have heard of is Sheikh Usuuli but you obviously cannot get a DNA sample from him.
Bulletproofpride 1/6/2023 5:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Like I said, there are no real Jambeele descendants today, and no Raarane descendants alive.

I don’t know about Jambeele but Raarane and Xaskul are well and alive. Listen to this short video 6 min long. This guy is originally from Babili (east Hararghe) and is in Mogadishu given a talk. He came to visit the Raarane community in Mogadishu. He says all the branches are alive and well. He says we know exactly where irir Hawiye is buried. He also says that many of the Oromo in east Hararghe that live there are Somali. There is a family called Reer Aw Aadan Mahad who are from Qansaxdheere among the Geelidle they are Raarane Hawiye.
Bulletproofpride 1/6/2023 5:24:00 AM

Yeh I doubt silcis and wadalaan will score different from hiiraab. They got the same genealogy going to Gurgaarte and they live close by each other. Plenty of silcis in Boondheere Mogadishu. Even attended a silcis “sab” and I met there ugaas there. It will be difficult to find them here in the west but they definitely exist. But even if you do find them it’s difficult to get them to test because they get put off by the price.
farjanomar 1/6/2023 11:37:00 PM

@Mujahid Nur.

I got a message back from the E-M293 Marehan.

ASC Walaal. Are you Reer Diini?

January 4, 2023

No I’m soon fure.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/6/2023 11:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Mujahid Nur.

I got a message back from the E-M293 Marehan.

ASC Walaal. Are you Reer Diini?

January 4, 2023

No I’m soon fure.

Interesting, not surprising as Soonfure territory extends Dagodia lands, who have tested positive for E-M293.
Bulletproofpride 1/7/2023 3:53:00 AM

Are the Somali E-M293 remnants of the Cushitic pastoralists that migrated to Kenya/Tanzania etc?
s1abx 1/8/2023 7:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I don’t know about Jambeele but Raarane and Xaskul are well and alive. Listen to this short video 6 min long. This guy is originally from Babili (east Hararghe) and is in Mogadishu given a talk. He came to visit the Raarane community in Mogadishu. He says all the branches are alive and well. He says we know exactly where irir Hawiye is buried. He also says that many of the Oromo in east Hararghe that live there are Somali. There is a family called Reer Aw Aadan Mahad who are from Qansaxdheere among the Geelidle they are Raarane Hawiye.

Interesting, I never thought Raarane had alive descendants. I know of Xaskul and have encountered one.
s1abx 1/8/2023 7:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are the Somali E-M293 remnants of the Cushitic pastoralists that migrated to Kenya/Tanzania etc?

Most likely local Cushitic groups that got absorbed.
Bulletproofpride 1/11/2023 12:12:00 AM

What does this mean? Has my sample arrived at the destination or not?

Your results are being processed!

You will receive an email when your results are ready. This will generally take 12 weeks after your sample is received at our labs.
Saeed 1/11/2023 1:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What does this mean? Has my sample arrived at the destination or not?

Your results are being processed!

You will receive an email when your results are ready. This will generally take 12 weeks after your sample is received at our labs.

Yes they have it and are working on it, just wait for an email or check their website every so often, to see any updates (if your sample fails for example).
Bulletproofpride 1/11/2023 2:11:00 AM

@saeed thanks
Almas123 1/16/2023 10:50:00 PM

Hi, brother the aba yoonis are a xasan geri clan, the famous sheekh yusuf maama was from the Aba yoonis and is buried a few kms west of berbera, the aba yoonis who reside in Somaliland, have resided amongst the habar awal reer gediid for 7 generations and have intermarried since then
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 6:31:00 AM

I just did a 23and me test , and I turned out to be 100% Somali, gobolka Mudug is where most of my traits results are than followed by Bari region.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 7:02:00 AM

I just checked my 23andme relatives, I have relatives from the Netherlands and Scotland, with British names. My parents told me that one of my great grandmother was Scottish from the British Empire, they are showing up as my 5th cousin but I might have closer cousin of I do check all my relatives.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 7:06:00 AM

This is what 23andne states.

5th Cousin

You and Claire Murphy may share a set of 4th-great-grandparents. You could also be from different generations (removed cousins) or share only one ancestor (half cousins).
Bulletproofpride 1/18/2023 7:10:00 AM

Nice bro but how you 100% Somali with Scottish great grandmother? A great grand parent makes up 12.5% of your total genome. I’m confused.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 7:16:00 AM

Maybe Farjan Omar and Drobah might know. Why I'm 100% Somali and yet could have Scottish and Netherlands relatives. It can't be recent Somali migrants mixing with cadaan, it must be around 175 years ago side note my mother did mention that one of her great grand mothers was a Scottish soldier lady part of the British Empire, around 4 generations ago.
drobbah 1/18/2023 9:04:00 AM

I don’t know about Somalia but I’ve never heard of British women marrying into nomadic Somali clans of Somaliland.On the coast I’ve heard of Isaaq men from coastal settlements like Berbera who married Turkish/Ottoman women.My great grandmother’s sister (they were both half Somali and half Yemeni) also married an Englishman in Aden Colony of Yemen.I’ve heard of Isaaq,Dir and Harti seamen travelling to all over the empire including the UK and starting families with British women perhaps you are matching some of their distant descendants
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 9:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I don’t know about Somalia but I’ve never heard of British women marrying into nomadic Somali clans of Somaliland.On the coast I’ve heard of Isaaq men from coastal settlements like Berbera who married Turkish/Ottoman women.My great grandmother’s sister (they were both half Somali and half Yemeni) also married an Englishman in Aden Colony of Yemen.I’ve heard of Isaaq,Dir and Harti seamen travelling to all over the empire including the UK and starting families with British women perhaps you are matching some of their distant descendants

No my mother even mentioned it to me before, I took the test, it happend in Somali. Are there any other ways I can check if I have any British like Euro. If you guys are on 23and me maybe I can even share. I have sent Claire Murfy a message,and told her about our great grand mother. My family even have oral stories about her and how she passed away.
drobbah 1/18/2023 9:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

No my mother even mentioned it to me before, I took the test, it happend in Somali. Are there any other ways I can check if I have any British like Euro. If you guys are on 23and me maybe I can even share. I have sent Claire Murfy a message,and told her about our great grand mother. My family even have oral stories about her and how she passed away.

Aren’t you from Southern Somalia? What was a Scottish woman doing in hostile Somalia in the late 1800s? Doesn’t make much historical sense
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 10:00:00 AM

In 1900, this map shows Marehaan living as far as Sool in Boohodle, a timespan you say Mareexaan was only in Dhusamareb area [Bad Link]

source of British Somaliland...notice along with Warsangeli, and Dhulbahante, the Mareexaan are mentioned as inhabitants

[Bad Link]x000D_Border between Garowe and Sool and Southern Toghdeer. [Bad Link]

Hopefully by uploading my results onto Euro genetics, I might learn more.
Saeed 1/18/2023 12:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I just checked my 23andme relatives, I have relatives from the Netherlands and Scotland, with British names. My parents told me that one of my great grandmother was Scottish from the British Empire, they are showing up as my 5th cousin but I might have closer cousin of I do check all my relatives.

I have a fully European "5th cousin" on 23andMe too, in my case it's a false match which happens sometimes, if you actually had Scottish you would have gotten a small percentage of it, but yh try to find a closer match (4th cousin or closer).
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/18/2023 4:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I have a fully European "5th cousin" on 23andMe too, in my case it's a false match which happens sometimes, if you actually had Scottish you would have gotten a small percentage of it, but yh try to find a closer match (4th cousin or closer).

I checked, I also have numerous English cousins on 23andme someone from Newcastle. I have at least counted up to 8th with English origin,these are even closer 4th cousins.

3rd Cousin

You and Jonathan may share a set of great-great-grandparents. You could also be from different generations (removed cousins) or share only one ancestor (half cousins). This relative of myn is of German origin though from Colin. His surname is Soelle. It looks lke my Scottish relatives are of Germanic origin. Even the girl who was my 5th cousin had German relatives.
s1abx 1/20/2023 2:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

No my mother even mentioned it to me before, I took the test, it happend in Somali. Are there any other ways I can check if I have any British like Euro. If you guys are on 23and me maybe I can even share. I have sent Claire Murfy a message,and told her about our great grand mother. My family even have oral stories about her and how she passed away.

Just a suggestion, try Gedmatch specifically PuntDNAL K12. I would love to see the results especially with the British admixture. Also what are both your haplogroups?
drobbah 1/20/2023 3:06:00 AM

There's a Kuwaiti E-FTB35550 which is under E-Y18637, we got ourselves another long lost Somali brother.His tmrca with another Somali under the same haplogroup is 2200ybp (200 BCE) way before Islam!
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/20/2023 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Just a suggestion, try Gedmatch specifically PuntDNAL K12. I would love to see the results especially with the British admixture. Also what are both your haplogroups?

I'm E-163949 and mt L2a. Which is better if I wanted to discover my European side Gedmatch or Euro site? Also I have seen YouTube video two siblings can inherite different genes from parent one sibling might show up percentage of European they inherited and the other might not. If the percentage of European doesn't show up on my percentage on 23andme, will it show up on Gedmatch or euro site?
drobbah 1/20/2023 5:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I'm E-163949 and mt L2a. Which is better if I wanted to discover my European side Gedmatch or Euro site? Also I have seen YouTube video two siblings can inherite different genes from parent one sibling might show up percentage of European they inherited and the other might not. If the percentage of European doesn't show up on my percentage on 23andme, will it show up on Gedmatch or euro site?

Where's your G25 coordinates?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/20/2023 5:28:00 AM

@drobbah I have sent Mr Davidski my 23andMe raw DNA data. I haven't payd yet. Its just a matter of waiting now.

Hi,

Unfortunately, the store is closed until July 2023. Please email me in July.

[Bad Link].

Mujahid Nur Marehan. I needed to find other alternatives now.

Illustrative dna are generating G25 Coordinates for me here Order recieved

Dear customer,

Your results are currently under process. We will let you know once they are ready. This can take up to 1-3 business days
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/21/2023 8:18:00 AM

Some Dhulbahante Jamac Siyad have still not formed a sub clade with E-163949, if I'm not mistaken.
farjanomar 1/21/2023 10:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Some Dhulbahante Jamac Siyad have still not formed a sub clade with E-163949, if I'm not mistaken.

What is the sample #?
farjanomar 1/21/2023 10:48:00 PM

@Mujahid Nur

1 have almost 1000 DNA relatives, (90% Somali 10% Non-Somali) anything beyond 3rd cousin should not be taken seriously. 23andme is fairly accurate, so they should have given you small percentage of the relative you are searching for.
farjanomar 1/21/2023 10:57:00 PM

@Bullet proof@Garacad@Mujahid Nur

Is the Murursade sample not going to be added to yfull? since he is at where, his cousin was placed last time at (E-BY8081).
Bulletproofpride 1/21/2023 11:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bullet proof@Garacad@Mujahid Nur

Is the Murursade sample not going to be added to yfull? since he is at where, his cousin was placed last time at (E-BY8081).

I was about to ask you this. Maybe he hasn’t requested Yfull to do this. Don’t You need to ask Yfull to do it first?
farjanomar 1/21/2023 11:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I was about to ask you this. Maybe he hasn’t requested Yfull to do this. Don’t You need to ask Yfull to do it first?

I think Nur Mujahid and Garacad might give us some update since i am not active on the somali forum with the guy who upgraded him.
Bulletproofpride 1/21/2023 11:39:00 PM

Received this message today

“Your sample has arrived!

Thanks for registering and sending in your sample. Next step is for the DNA in your sample to be extracted. Once this is complete, your sample will move to the quality control (QC) stage.”
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/22/2023 12:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think Nur Mujahid and Garacad might give us some update since i am not active on the somali forum with the guy who upgraded him.

@Libaax joore has upgraded him in FTD, so he would know. With 23andme your right, I might have assumed mixed race Somali's in my relative's list to be pure cadaan, but we shall see what I score on G25.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/22/2023 1:09:00 AM

Most Somalis on 23andme are 4th cousins related, that's interesting.
Saeed 1/22/2023 6:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bullet proof@Garacad@Mujahid Nur

Is the Murursade sample not going to be added to yfull? since he is at where, his cousin was placed last time at (E-BY8081).

The guy on the forum said he wasn't going to put the result on YFull, I am not on FTDNA but you have pay for the raw data I heard? Anyways the guy spent a lot upgrading his result so he didn't want to do YFull too.
Bulletproofpride 1/22/2023 9:03:00 AM

Guys since we are related to other Somaloid groups like rendille, Dhaasanac Arbore Elmolo Yaaku Rendille Karre–Boni Tunni–Dabarre Ashraaf Maay, do you think they will test positive for E-Y17859.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/23/2023 2:40:00 AM

Here is my G25, They even fiqured out I'm Marehan, they must have sampled the Mandera /Baladxawo population, even though I'm not from there.

Horn of Africa

96.4%

Somali

96.4%

Somali (Somalia)

57.6%

Somali (Kenya)

38.8%

Sub-Saharan African

3.6%

Nilo-Saharan

3.6%

Mursi (Ethiopia)

2.2%

Zaghawa (Sudan)

1.4

Basically I'm pure Somali, and the only Sub Sharan African I have is Nilo Saharan.
drobbah 1/23/2023 2:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Here is my G25, They even fiqured out I'm Marehan, they must have sampled the Mandera /Baladxawo population, even though I'm not from there.

Horn of Africa

96.4%

Somali

96.4%

Somali (Somalia)

57.6%

Somali (Kenya)

38.8%

Sub-Saharan African

3.6%

Nilo-Saharan

3.6%

Mursi (Ethiopia)

2.2%

Zaghawa (Sudan)

1.4

Basically I'm pure Somali, and the only Sub Sharan African I have is Nilo Saharan.

You might be more Mota-shifted than the average Puntland sample.The Somali Kenyan samples are Oromo admixed.Don't worry about the SSA, it is just noise tbh.My results in comparison:

Show Spoiler
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/23/2023 3:13:00 AM

@Drobah '' You might be more Mota-shifted than the average Puntland sample''

I disagree the Kenya Somali population have obsorbed reer Guri Marehan DNA for the last 200 years, meaning the Moto we share is most likely Marehan DNA. My theory holds more water, if that Moto DNA would have come from Somsli-Kenyans who have sighnifiecant Oromo admixture, surely I would have been positive for Niger Congo DNA percentages, that the vast majority of Somali galbeed whom test are positive for.

Also halve of Mandera and the refugee camps in Kenya have sighnifiecant Marehan population l, whom are related to me. What makes you think DNA samples are never obtained from those populations for ID and migration purposes? If I meet any Marehan from Galmudug, whom don't share Moto with Somali - Kenya, I would believe you. 23andme and G25 have all asighned me 0% Niger Congo, majority of NFD and Ogadenia show some Niger Congo percentages.
drobbah 1/23/2023 3:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Drobah '' You might be more Mota-shifted than the average Puntland sample''

I disagree

Well. run an ancient breakdown with South Sudanese,Mota,Natufian,CHG, and Taforalt.I'm pretty sure you have a decent chunk of Mota if you are preferring Northern Kenyan Somalis
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/23/2023 7:21:00 AM

Interesting I have 5% Moto ancient Ethiopian hunter gatherer, that's amazing,i didn't see that coming according to G25, I cluster closer with Somali Kenyan than of Somalia.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/23/2023 9:36:00 AM

@Drobah what's the difference between the Moto hunter gatherer I carry and the Somalia hunter gatherer, are they different races? Drobah as you performed my coordinates. I think its unlikely my Moto is from Oromo as I am lacking any Niger Congo percentage , perhaps my Moto is from Garre.
drobbah 1/23/2023 10:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Drobah what's the difference between the Moto hunter gatherer I carry and the Somalia hunter gatherer, are they different races? Drobah as you performed my coordinates. I think its unlikely my Moto is from Oromo as I am lacking any Niger Congo percentage , perhaps my Moto is from Garre.

Mota has nothing to do with Niger-Congo as he was indigenous to the Horn.You clearly have heightened Mota, you come from a region once inhabited by the Orma and later intruding Borana,we have a member of your clan who belongs to a Oromo subclade of E-Z813.It is very clear you carry Oromo (Orma,Borana) ancestry although not as much as Somaloid clans that lived under Borana hegemony for centuries.Those clans have more Oromo ancestry than you and were only freed from the Boranas because Northern Somali speaking Darod pastoralists like your ancestors arrived to the region and drove them from Southern Somalia and parts of Northern Kenya.Majority of the Oromo ancestry I assume is female mediated.You have just as much Mota as my father who’s region dealt with the invasion of Oromo clans from the Barentu branch in Fafaan region (Jigjiga region) and Western SL.There’s a reason Jaarso and Akisho live among us although they were Somalianized.

You are still primarily Somali autosomally and clearly belong to the Somali ethnic group and Darod clan by Y-DNA.The only interesting part about you is that you completely lack any Arabian ancestry.You have the lowest Arabian I have seen of any Somali sample including my father who only scores 2% vs your 0.8%.Both of you score similar Mota and have low to non-existent Arabian which suggests to me that the 16th century expansionist Oromos that contributed to both of our regions (different branches of the Oromos though) probably lacked Arabian ancestry that is widespread among Oromos and Wolaytas of today.
Saeed 1/23/2023 7:39:00 PM

I got 7.2% Nilo-Saharan on IllustrativeDNA more than both of you, how correct is that? How far back is the Nilo-Saharan because I am 100% Somali on 23andMe as well.

[Bad Link]

Why does 23andMe give us all 100% Somali if these other tests show that we're not the same?
drobbah 1/23/2023 8:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I got 7.2% Nilo-Saharan on IllustrativeDNA more than both of you, how correct is that? How far back is the Nilo-Saharan because I am 100% Somali on 23andMe as well.

[Bad Link]

Why does 23andMe give us all 100% Somali if these other tests show that we're not the same?

We are also scoring Somali_Kenya which is slightly more SSA than the Puntland sample.I wouldn’t take their modern results seriously as there is some diversity among Somalis.

Instead what I use is an ancient basic breakdown to see how much the Mota the Somali has or any foreign admixture, I also use the KEN_N & KEN_IA + Arabian model to see how much Cushitic vs Arabian a Somali carries.PL samples for example have higher Yemeni ancestry while some samples from parts of Kenya and Ethiopia will have higher Mota due to Oromo admixture (either recent or medieval)
Saeed 1/23/2023 8:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

We are also scoring Somali_Kenya which is slightly more SSA than the Puntland sample.I wouldn’t take their modern results seriously as there is some diversity among Somalis.

Instead what I use is an ancient basic breakdown to see how much the Mota the Somali has or any foreign admixture, I also use the KEN_N & KEN_IA + Arabian model to see how much Cushitic vs Arabian a Somali carries.PL samples for example have higher Yemeni ancestry while some samples from parts of Kenya and Ethiopia will have higher Mota due to Oromo admixture (either recent or medieval)

I see, I seem to be more SSA than other Somali results I've seen, and I don't think I have any Arabian or Mota either, I don't know where to find those models so can you run my data and see if there is anything noteworthy? Here are my coordinates:

Show Spoiler
drobbah 1/23/2023 10:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I see, I seem to be more SSA than other Somali results I've seen, and I don't think I have any Arabian or Mota either, I don't know where to find those models so can you run my data and see if there is anything noteworthy? Here are my coordinates:

Show Spoiler

I will run your coordinates after work Inshallah.Where in Somaliweyn do you primarily come from?
Saeed 1/23/2023 10:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I will run your coordinates after work Inshallah.Where in Somaliweyn do you primarily come from?

Thanks, I come from Central/South Somalia.
drobbah 1/24/2023 12:43:00 AM

You get no Mota & Neolithic Iranian; you also lack any Arabian.There’s something missing which causes you to have really bad fits.Are you sure these are your scaled coordinates?

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 3.2184% / 0.03218430

85.6 KEN_Pastoral_N

14.4 KEN_Pastoral_IA

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 7.1893% / 0.07189267

57.8 Sudanese

42.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP
Saeed 1/24/2023 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

You get no Mota & Neolithic Iranian; you also lack any Arabian.There’s something missing which causes you to have really bad fits.Are you sure these are your scaled coordinates?

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 3.2184% / 0.03218430

85.6 KEN_Pastoral_N

14.4 KEN_Pastoral_IA

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 7.1893% / 0.07189267

57.8 Sudanese

42.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

Yep those are my scaled coordinates, I heard using 23andMe gives you worse fits but mine are worse than others that have used 23andMe, I wonder if I could use my Nebula data...

I get worse fits on IllustrativeDNA too, I'm not sure what the problem is or what's missing.

Whatever it is, I am definitely more "SSA" if you compare me to other Somalis.
drobbah 1/24/2023 1:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Yep those are my scaled coordinates, I heard using 23andMe gives you worse fits but mine are worse than others that have used 23andMe, I wonder if I could use my Nebula data...

I get worse fits on IllustrativeDNA too, I'm not sure what the problem is or what's missing.

Whatever it is, I am definitely more "SSA" if you compare me to other Somalis.

I had weird results with my V4 23&me kit which made me heavily Mota (even more than my father) and made me appear more SSA than what I am (still always more Eurasian shifted than my father).I currently use my coordinate from my ftdna kit, my mota levels on this kit are the same as my mota on qpadm using my 23&me kit (3-4%) which is reasonable considering my father is between 6-8% Mota and my mother has none.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/24/2023 1:23:00 AM

I did Danta lab test, I don't think you could opload those results onto G25 illustrative.
drobbah 1/24/2023 2:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I did Danta lab test, I don't think you could opload those results onto G25 illustrative.

How many SNPs does your Dante kit contain? I presume your kit is pretty high coverage and would be good for qpadm
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/24/2023 2:21:00 AM

Not sure. But it's the 30x whole genome sequencing one.
Saeed 1/24/2023 2:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I did Danta lab test, I don't think you could opload those results onto G25 illustrative.

Yh I don't think IllustrativeDNA accepts Nebula either, oh well.
drobbah 1/24/2023 4:49:00 AM

Intra-Somali PCA with Saed & Mujahid (Jubaland).Somali6 & Ayodo_43S are the most Arabian and Eurasian of Somalis with obviously the majority of the Northern Kenyan Somalis being more SSA
Saeed 1/24/2023 5:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Intra-Somali PCA with Saed & Mujahid (Jubaland).Somali6 & Ayodo_43S are the most Arabian and Eurasian of Somalis with obviously the majority of the Northern Kenyan Somalis being more SSA

So left is more Eurasian, right more SSA, what does north and south signify? Like why am I all the way at the top away from everyone else?

So there are 4 Somalis more SSA than me and they are all Kenyan Somalis, interesting, I wonder why the 43s one is so different to the other Kenyan Somalis.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/24/2023 7:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

So left is more Eurasian, right more SSA, what does north and south signify? Like why am I all the way at the top away from everyone else?

So there are 4 Somalis more SSA than me and they are all Kenyan Somalis, interesting, I wonder why the 43s one is so different to the other Kenyan Somalis.

You are more Eurasia shifted, as you lack any Moto, North is more eurasia and south is more sub saharan. I don't think east or West has any significants.
Saeed 1/24/2023 7:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

You are more Eurasia shifted, as you lack any Moto, North is more eurasia and south is more sub saharan. I don't think east or West has any significants.

Drobbah said the ones on the left Somali6 and Kenya43S are the most Eurasian and the Kenyan Somalis on the right the most SSA, so I'm also one of the most SSA on the pca.
drobbah 1/24/2023 7:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

So left is more Eurasian, right more SSA, what does north and south signify? Like why am I all the way at the top away from everyone else?

So there are 4 Somalis more SSA than me and they are all Kenyan Somalis, interesting, I wonder why the 43s one is so different to the other Kenyan Somalis.

Yes those 4 Somali Kenyans are more SSA shifted than you.I think you plot away from us because you lack Arabian and Mota which makes you unique in the pca.
drobbah 1/24/2023 8:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Drobbah said the ones on the left Somali6 and Kenya43S are the most Eurasian and the Kenyan Somalis on the right the most SSA, so I'm also one of the most SSA on the pca.

There's a user from southern somalia that is also more SSA on average than the Northern Somalis.He is on Angoliga's African G25 plot, perhaps you can ask Angoliga to add you to his pca. https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~Angoliga/4/#/
Saeed 1/24/2023 8:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a user from southern somalia that is also more SSA on average than the Northern Somalis.He is on Angoliga's African G25 plot, perhaps you can ask Angoliga to add you to his pca. https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~Angoliga/4/#/

Which one is from Southern Somalia? Afbarwaaqo? And yh thanks I'll do that.
drobbah 1/24/2023 9:15:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Which one is from Southern Somalia? Afbarwaaqo? And yh thanks I'll do that.

Yes Afbarwaaqo is from Southern Somalia, while Diini and his mother are Ashraaf from Ethiopia
Bulletproofpride 1/25/2023 12:36:00 AM

It’s still a homogeneous society with just slight differences.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/25/2023 1:47:00 AM

interesting I don't have any Omotic, where as all the Darood in Ogadenia, Jubaland and NFD have Omotic admmixture. I'm probibally the only sample that that has Moto and doesn't have any Omotic. Perhaps that explains our historic successes on the battle field against the Ogaden in Kismaayo .
drobbah 1/25/2023 2:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

interesting I don't have any Omotic, where as all the Darood in Ogadenia, Jubaland and NFD have Omotic admmixture. I'm probibally the only sample that that has Moto and doesn't have any Omotic. Perhaps that explains our successes on the battle field against the Ogaden.

Mota peaks in Omotic populations...Omotic populations descend from Mota.I don't think all Darood in K5 have Mota ancestry tho as K5 is massive and diverse.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 1/25/2023 2:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Mota peaks in Omotic populations...Omotic populations descend from Mota.I don't think all Darood in K5 have Mota ancestry tho as K5 is massive and diverse.

So Moto is hamatic, so the difference must be the minor Niger-Congo, they carry. I have noticed all the Ogaden from K5 carry atleast 0. 5% up to 3% Niger Congo, when they do their 23andme.
drobbah 1/25/2023 2:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

So Moto is hamatic, so the difference must be the minor Niger-Congo, they carry. I have noticed all the Ogaden from K5 carry atleast 0,5% up to 3% Niger Congo.

Nobody in the Horn besides the Bantus of Southern Somalia carry any significant Niger-Congo ancestry
Garaacad 2/1/2023 2:47:00 AM

Guys, I haven't forgotten about that YSEQ test. The results have been confusing.

[Bad Link]

Quick results summary:

Y18357 C+

Quick results summary:

Y227096 A-

Not sure what I should test for next.

I come from an old subclan of Cumar Maxamuud. @Araz My subclan is Cabdi Ciise. Perhaps the Cumar Maxamuud E-Y227096 sample has Cismaan Maxamuud origins.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/1/2023 4:39:00 AM

Interesting, why the two Marehan reer Ahmed on Yfull have not formed a closer sub clade over the reer Diini sample. Could this mean we are equally distance related?

If we are equally distance related, rer Diini and reer Ahmed are abtirsi meets further up at Eis Ahmed son of Boqor Mohaned, instead of Hussein Yusuf.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/1/2023 7:14:00 AM

@Garacaad I have heard from Marehan sources that a sub clan of eise Mohamud MJ called bah Dir khalaf are of Marehan origin, I'm not whether such a sub clan exists or whether they have taken a dna test or not.
Garaacad 2/1/2023 7:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Garacaad I have heard from Marehan sources that a sub clan of eise Mohamud MJ called bah Dir khalaf are of Marehan origin, I'm not whether such a sub clan exists or whether they have taken a dna test or not.

Never heard of that subclan. My first cousin is Ciise Maxamuud so I'll ask him. Ciise Maxamuud are probably mostly E-BY8085. There are already two E-BY8085-positive Ciise Maxamuuds on FTDNA.
farjanomar 2/6/2023 3:37:00 AM

@Gaeacad @Mujahid Nur.

A second Reer Bicidyahan (Ali Ibrahim) has joined FTDNA with Y37 test. Him and the first RB sample are almost identical at Y37 marker.
Garaacad 2/6/2023 7:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Gaeacad @Mujahid Nur.

A second Reer Bicidyahan (Ali Ibrahim) has joined FTDNA with Y37 test. Him and the first RB sample are almost identical at Y37 marker.

Very boring DNA result. What will be more interesting is how close Reer Bicidyahan will end up being to the Saleebaans. Hopefully, with the discovery of new E-BY8081 subclades, I'll be able to understand the disjunction between the Ali Saleebaan and Maxamuud Saleebaan YFull testers.
Bulletproofpride 2/7/2023 4:37:00 AM

My Oromo friend from bale region got his results. He claims Kaariye Karanle. I told him to take the big Y. It seems he is most definitely Somali in origin from the looks of it. He could get the same Y as the two murusade guys. Out of all the Somali regions he is closest to the murusade inhabited areas.

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Bulletproofpride 2/7/2023 7:41:00 AM

Apparently he posted his results on Sspot. Hopefully he gets his Big Y because he is not so sure about his origins.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 1:32:00 AM

I can’t believe this. A Sixawle Karanle got J1 today. This specific clan is associated with the tribe of imam Axmed Gurey.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 1:36:00 AM

What type of j1 is this? Could it be a Yemeni soldier that got assimilated into the karanle tribe? Guys I’m so excited to have a Karanle specially a Sixawle post their result.
jay123 2/11/2023 1:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What type of j1 is this? Could it be a Yemeni soldier that got assimilated into the karanle tribe? Guys I’m so excited to have a Karanle specially a Sixawle post their result.

That lineage is particularly prominent among Habeshas like Amhara. It’s likely older than the medieval period so it’s likely an assimilated habesha group (Harari harla)
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 2:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by jay123

That lineage is particularly prominent among Habeshas like Amhara. It’s likely older than the medieval period so it’s likely an assimilated habesha group (Harari harla)

Please explain more. Why do some Europeans and Arabians have it?
jay123 2/11/2023 2:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Please explain more. Why do some Europeans and Arabians have it?

J-CTS5368 is also known as J-Z2215. Looking at yfull its mainly a lineage that's from the middle east and spread from there, its been in the HOA for thousands of years. This is hypothetical but since Karanle live around Harar I assume they got this lineage from the Ethio-Semites like the Harari not from medieval migrants from the ME.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 2:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by jay123

J-CTS5368 is also known as J-Z2215. Looking at yfull its mainly a lineage that's from the middle east and spread from there, its been in the HOA for thousands of years. This is hypothetical but since Karanle live around Harar I assume they got this lineage from the Ethio-Semites like the Harari not from medieval migrants from the ME.

There is no specific Harari lineage or ethnicity. You can be Karanle Hawiye and Harare for example. Also many of the Harari tribes are Karanle like abogn (Abon tribe), adashe (adadshe tribe) etc. Also weren’t most Habesha P56. This Sixawle person is P58. It could be an assimilated Arabian.

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jay123 2/11/2023 2:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

There is no specific Harari lineage or ethnicity. You can be Karanle Hawiye and Harare for example. Also many of the Harari tribes are Karanle like abogn (Abon tribe), adashe (adadshe tribe) etc. Also weren’t most Habesha P56. This Sixawle person is P58. It could be an assimilated Arabian.

P56 and P58 are under J-CTS5368, but it could very well be recent arabian
drobbah 2/11/2023 3:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

There is no specific Harari lineage or ethnicity. You can be Karanle Hawiye and Harare for example. Also many of the Harari tribes are Karanle like abogn (Abon tribe), adashe (adadshe tribe) etc. Also weren’t most Habesha P56. This Sixawle person is P58. It could be an assimilated Arabian.

Gabooye have an ancient P58 Yemeni subclade, the Karanle belong to this ancient branch as well but falling under a different branch or it’s a medieval Southern Yemeni like the Carab Salaax J-P58 sample
drobbah 2/11/2023 3:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by jay123

P56 and P58 are under J-CTS5368, but it could very well be recent arabian

23&me assigns P56, I have Harari matches with it.It might be an old basal J1 subclade, hopefully he takes deep y-test
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 3:06:00 AM

If anyone has access to that forum please verify if she really Sixawle. She broke down her mothers clan sabti but didn't mention what her saxawle subclan is, saxawle have 2 subclans and then ahmed gureys clan were the garaads i think shes capping or from a small clan i'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt she's anonymous so it dont matter, don't mind me she can continue supporting Karanle.

I read her posts on somalispot, she keeps saying her dad taught her about "reer balow" and "reer naaji garaad", no saxawle uses those terms like balow, saxawle is reer ciye bacaad and reer sanbure bacaad, same way gidir is abshacle and warneef and murusade is sabti and foorculus

She is just a karanle fan, we already see people claiming our history now they claim our clan way iska dhacdaa.

I have seen some online karanle abtirsis but listen to farah qabaas from 8:10
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 3:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Gabooye have an ancient P58 Yemeni subclade, the Karanle belong to this ancient branch as well but falling under a different branch or it’s a medieval Southern Yemeni like the Carab Salaax J-P58 sample

The thing is when you look at the geographical location of the Gabooye and Carab salax it makes sense for them to have south Arabian ancestry but the Sixawle live in Hararghe region which is near Dir dhaba, far away from sea fearing Mehri or other such south Semitic groups.
drobbah 2/11/2023 5:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The thing is when you look at the geographical location of the Gabooye and Carab salax it makes sense for them to have south Arabian ancestry but the Sixawle live in Hararghe region which is near Dir dhaba, far away from sea fearing Mehri or other such south Semitic groups.

Gabooye have ancient South Arabian lineage just like many Dir and Isaaqs.It has nothing to do with locations, hopefully the Karanle takes a deep test Inshallah
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 5:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Gabooye have ancient South Arabian lineage just like many Dir and Isaaqs.It has nothing to do with locations, hopefully the Karanle takes a deep test Inshallah

Someone instructed her to download the raw data then they should use the https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and put the raw dna on there. They would then find out on the Yfull where they would be positioned?

Anyways these results are very interesting. I remember S1bax showing me a Gugundhabe with Y dna L from the same region. It seems from my hypothesis that during the Menelik invasion of Harar many people run away and left the city of Harar. The Somalis were lucky to go back to their traditional villages and towns and join their nomadic kinsmen while the the Harari brothers had no option but to stay within the city walls and accept menelik’s rule. Some of them however got incorporated into the nearby Somali clans hence the diverse lineages like E-M81, J1, L etc among others with the Somalis from that region. This region is very interesting indeed and I hope more of them take a dna test.
Garaacad 2/11/2023 5:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

If anyone has access to that forum please verify if she really Sixawle. She broke down her mothers clan sabti but didn't mention what her saxawle subclan is, saxawle have 2 subclans and then ahmed gureys clan were the garaads i think shes capping or from a small clan i'm not giving her the benefit of the doubt she's anonymous so it dont matter, don't mind me she can continue supporting Karanle.

I read her posts on somalispot, she keeps saying her dad taught her about "reer balow" and "reer naaji garaad", no saxawle uses those terms like balow, saxawle is reer ciye bacaad and reer sanbure bacaad, same way gidir is abshacle and warneef and murusade is sabti and foorculus

She is just a karanle fan, we already see people claiming our history now they claim our clan way iska dhacdaa.

I have seen some online karanle abtirsis but listen to farah qabaas from 8:10

What incentive does she have to lie? Nobody would waste their time and money pretending to belong to another clan online for so long. Hararghe is a cosmopolitan area, so why should Karanle Js be out of the ordinary.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 5:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What incentive does she have to lie? Nobody would waste their time and money pretending to belong to another clan online for so long. Hararghe is a cosmopolitan area, so why should Karanle Js be out of the ordinary.

You are absolutely right. There are no incentives. Nothing wrong with her haplogroup. It’s just the way she broke down her mothers tribe compared to her fathers that got me wondering a bit. Looking at other threads she made she comes a cross as someone who only knows the basics tribal names that are readily available online. I would have interrogated her but I don’t have access to that forum. Because of her long standing Karanle identity and me not having any solid evidence against her I will accept her as a Karanle. Who knows those Israfeel dudes could have been assimilated into the Karanle tree thrmselves.

@Mujahid try and ask her sub clan and sub sub clan etc.
jay123 2/11/2023 6:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Someone instructed her to download the raw data then they should use the https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and put the raw dna on there. They would then find out on the Yfull where they would be positioned?

I think cladefinder can be useful but if he had his testing done a while ago I'm not sure its going to be any better at predicting than 23andme. I did mine with V5 23andme data and it got me T-Y269895 lol.
s1abx 2/11/2023 6:11:00 AM

[QUOTE=Bulletproofpride;911570]Someone instructed her to download the raw data then they should use the https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and put the raw dna on there. They would then find out on the Yfull where they would be positioned?

Anyways these results are very interesting. I remember S1bax showing me a Gugundhabe with Y dna L from the same region. It seems from my hypothesis that during the Menelik invasion of Harar many people run away and left the city of Harar. The Somalis were lucky to go back to their traditional villages and towns and join their nomadic kinsmen while the the Harari brothers had no option but to stay within the city walls and accept menelik’s rule. Some of them however got incorporated into the nearby Somali clans hence the diverse lineages like E-M81, J1, L etc among others with the Somalis from that region. This region is very interesting indeed and I hope more of them take a dna test.[/

Yes, I saw the J result and I was confused. Ask your other Sexawle friend to take a cheap test like Ancestry which if I am not wrong is 39£ and you can upload raw data to get haplogroup, if he can’t do 23andme. I am sure even the 18$ YSEQ test will come in handy. It’d be interesting to see the J1 origins, I am not sure if I told you but one guy from my subsub of Abgaal is J1 and 100% Somali while there is an E-V32 one too. It is a small small sub though. I’d be interested to find out which one I have when I do the test.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 6:27:00 AM

[QUOTE=s1abx;911582]

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Someone instructed her to download the raw data then they should use the https://cladefinder.yseq.net/ and put the raw dna on there. They would then find out on the Yfull where they would be positioned?

Anyways these results are very interesting. I remember S1bax showing me a Gugundhabe with Y dna L from the same region. It seems from my hypothesis that during the Menelik invasion of Harar many people run away and left the city of Harar. The Somalis were lucky to go back to their traditional villages and towns and join their nomadic kinsmen while the the Harari brothers had no option but to stay within the city walls and accept menelik’s rule. Some of them however got incorporated into the nearby Somali clans hence the diverse lineages like E-M81, J1, L etc among others with the Somalis from that region. This region is very interesting indeed and I hope more of them take a dna test.[/

Yes, I saw the J result and I was confused. Ask your other Sexawle friend to take a cheap test like Ancestry which if I am not wrong is 39£ and you can upload raw data to get haplogroup, if he can’t do 23andme. I am sure even the 18$ YSEQ test will come in handy. It’d be interesting to see the J1 origins, I am not sure if I told you but one guy from my subsub of Abgaal is J1 and 100% Somali while there is an E-V32 one too. It is a small small sub though. I’d be interested to find out which one I have when I do the test.

He is Gidir Karanle from iimey. I told him what you told me now.

What sub clade of the abgaal are J1?
s1abx 2/11/2023 6:52:00 AM

[QUOTE=Bulletproofpride;911587]

Originally Posted by s1abx

He is Gidir Karanle from iimey. I told him what you told me now.

What sub clade of the abgaal are J1?

No idea. I was informed by @Saeed and some other SSpot members and I was asking Saeed to ask the guy some questions but the guy must’ve creeped out as I was asking his full clan breakout. The guy didn’t reply after I asked for him to do a subclade test, he was definitely creeped out. I did find out he was the same sub-sub-sub as my ayeeyo though.
farjanomar 2/11/2023 8:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I can’t believe this. A Sixawle Karanle got J1 today. This specific clan is associated with the tribe of imam Axmed Gurey.

[Bad Link]

Any Somali Clan may have minority haplogroups within them (because of integration) and also individuel outliers (maybe NPE, other reasons allahu aclam) as we have seen with People tested so far.

Today we have a karanle JI.

This month a Abgaal E-V6 joined my relatives list. (Autosomal 100% Somali)

You

E-V32

See full report

Name removed.

E-V6

Also remember the E-M293 warsangali.

Anyone remember the J2 MJ/Bicidyahan, don't remember his name maybe Dawwa on Somalinet. Him and others did the National Geography tests long time a go.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 8:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Any Somali Clan may have minority haplogroups within them (because of integration) and also individuel outliers (maybe NPE, other reasons allahu aclam) as we have seen

with People tested so far.

Today we have a karanle JI.

This month a Abgaal E-V6 joined my relatives list. (Autosomal 100% Somali)

You

E-V32

See full report

Name removed.

E-V6

Also remember the E-M293 warsangali.

Anyone remember the J2 MJ/Bicidyahan, don't remember his name maybe Dawwa on Somalinet. Him and others did the National Geography tests long time a go.

This is so true. Outliers exist in most Somali clans. The thing is, hiiraab, Mj etc already have discovered their core ancestral clade and can easily spot the outliers. Us Karanle still haven’t found out our core ancestral clade. But time will tell inshallah.
s1abx 2/11/2023 5:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Any Somali Clan may have minority haplogroups within them (because of integration) and also individuel outliers (maybe NPE, other reasons allahu aclam) as we have seen with People tested so far.

Today we have a karanle JI.

This month a Abgaal E-V6 joined my relatives list. (Autosomal 100% Somali)

You

E-V32

See full report

Name removed.

E-V6

Also remember the E-M293 warsangali.

Anyone remember the J2 MJ/Bicidyahan, don't remember his name maybe Dawwa on Somalinet. Him and others did the National Geography tests long time a go.

I couldn’t find much info on E-V6, where is it primarily situated? Also, small favour, could you mind asking him his sub-sub, it would be interesting to add to my theory list.
Bulletproofpride 2/11/2023 11:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I couldn’t find much info on E-V6, where is it primarily situated? Also, small favour, could you mind asking him his sub-sub, it would be interesting to add to my theory list.

It’s part of the larger E-v1515. It came to the Horn with the ancient Cushitic pastoralists. I mean that’s what I always thought but looking at the Yfull tree it seems the entire Z830 which includes E-V6, E-V42, E-m923, E-m123 etc all seem to have an ancient presence in Arabia. Some with a TMRCA of 12,000 What’s going on here? No Egyptian or Sudanese to behold. Could it have entered the Horn via Arabia?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/
farjanomar 2/12/2023 12:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I couldn’t find much info on E-V6, where is it primarily situated? Also, small favour, could you mind asking him his sub-sub, it would be interesting to add to my theory list.

I was going to explain, our bro Bulletproove posted. The second one: Its not easy, but, i will do that. This time i will do reverse. What sub sublan should ask him? Wacbuudan? Harti Abgaal?

He probably got it from the Banaadiri since E-V6 mainly Arabian.
s1abx 2/12/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I was going to explain, our bro Bulletproove posted. The second one: Its not easy, but, i will do that. This time i will do reverse. What sub sublan should ask him? Wacbuudan? Harti Abgaal?

He probably got it from the Banaadiri since E-V6 mainly Arabian.

If you can, can you ask him his sub of Abgaal then as he will most likely reply with what I am looking for as we don’t identify by the immediate sub. For example, if he is Owbakar they have subclans that mixed completely with Beenadiiris.
s1abx 2/12/2023 5:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s part of the larger E-v1515. It came to the Horn with the ancient Cushitic pastoralists. I mean that’s what I always thought but looking at the Yfull tree it seems the entire Z830 which includes E-V6, E-V42, E-m923, E-m123 etc all seem to have an ancient presence in Arabia. Some with a TMRCA of 12,000 What’s going on here? No Egyptian or Sudanese to behold. Could it have entered the Horn via Arabia?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/

Which countries is it more found in etc is there a certain ethnic group that all have it majority?
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Which countries is it more found in etc is there a certain ethnic group that all have it majority?

This E-V6 and it’s sibling clades all under E-Z2830 seem to have entered the horn via Arabia. Looking at E-M293 which seems to be the most successful Z2830 lineage in the Horn and Southern Africa it entered Africa via Arabia 3700 years ago. Unlike E-M78 that entered the horn from North Africa. I don’t know which group came first. So far there are plenty of Afar people with E-V6 and from the looks of it many Arabian individuals.
drobbah 2/12/2023 5:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I was going to explain, our bro Bulletproove posted. The second one: Its not easy, but, i will do that. This time i will do reverse. What sub sublan should ask him? Wacbuudan? Harti Abgaal?

He probably got it from the Banaadiri since E-V6 mainly Arabian.

E-V6 is not Arabian…it’s Cushitic and has a founder effect among the Afars and can be found in many Northern Horners especially among Eritreans
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 6:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-V6 is not Arabian…it’s Cushitic and has a founder effect among the Afars and can be found in many Northern Horners especially among Eritreans

Can you back this statement up with evidence please. As far as what I can see E-V6 has no presence at all in Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Chad etc for it to be a Cushitic expansion from the north. Not a single individual other than a handful siwa berbers from Egypt tested positive for E-V6 north of the horn. If anything the entire E-V1515 lineage entered the horn via Arabia. The most successful E-V1515 in Africa is E-M293 and it only has a TMRCA of 3500 max in Africa while there are Saudis and Syrians on ancestral sub clades to E-M293 which are 10,000 years TMRCA.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y5861/
drobbah 2/12/2023 6:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Can you back this statement up with evidence please. As far as what I can see E-V6 has no presence at all in Sudan, Egypt, Libya, Chad etc for it to be a Cushitic expansion from the north.

E-M293 doesn't exist in any of those countries either....

Not a single individual other than a handful siwa berbers from Egypt tested positive for E-V6 north of the horn. If anything the entire E-V1515 lineage entered the horn via Arabia. The most successful E-V1515 in Africa is E-M293 and it only has a TMRCA of 3500 max in Africa while there are Saudis and Syrians on ancestral sub clades to E-M293 which are 10,000 years TMRCA.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y5861/

So those Pastoral Neolithic samples dated to 2000 ybp must be recent Arabs? What a ridiculous assertion, plus the Arab Slave trade complicates things as many MENA individuals will show up with African lineages, go take a look at Mota's lineage.You will find only Arabians on the yfull page with him

edit: one of the e-m293 Pastoral Neolithic is actually 2500 ybp
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 6:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-M293 doesn't exist in any of those countries either....

So those Pastoral Neolithic samples dated to 2000 ybp must be recent Arabs? What a ridiculous assertion, plus the Arab Slave trade complicates things as many MENA individuals will show up with African lineages, go take a look at Mota's lineage.You will find only Arabians on the yfull page with him

Who said they are Arabs? Let me make it clear.

E-Z830 expanded into the horn from Arabia. It did not expand from the north like E-m78. Those ancient E-Z830 lineages in Arabia can not have come because of slave trade. Arabs didn’t take slaves from Africa 10,000 years ago. The oldest E-Z830 in Africa is less than 4000 years old while the once from Arabia are much older. There is a reason why E-m123 in the horn are coming from the direction of Arabia. No Z830 came from Egypt Sudan direction towards the Horn. We would have seen it in other groups in the Sudan, Chad, Cameroon etc like we do with E-m78.

E-M293’s ancestors clade is found all over Arabia. Not Africa. Those pastoralist are only 4000 years old. Show me a ancient Nile valley sample with E-V1515. I will wait.
drobbah 2/12/2023 6:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who said they are Arabs? Let me make it clear.

E-Z830 expanded into the horn from Arabia.

If it expanded from Arabia and didn't expand with Arabians then who spread it? Don't be ridiculous, and why is it that the Pastoral Neolithic samples show no influences from Arabia lol.No archeological evidence nor autosomal evidence of an Arabian migration into Kenya/Tanzania 4000 years ago.It's clear both E-M293 and E-V6 are Cushitic lineages and arrived with South cushitic pastoralists.
drobbah 2/12/2023 6:59:00 AM

BulletProof doesn't realize that Arabians are oversampled and so even their African minority lineages would outnumber actual Africans from regions with high frequencies of that lineage.If we were to follow his way of assessing lineages we would be under the assumption that E-M293 is actually an Arabian lineage that entered the Horn.If it wasn't for Mota some people that think like you would be under the assumption it's some ancient Arabian subclade of E1b1a that left Africa
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 7:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

If it expanded from Arabia and didn't expand with Arabians then who spread it? Don't be ridiculous, and why is it that the Pastoral Neolithic samples show no influences from Arabia lol.No archeological evidence nor autosomal evidence of an Arabian migration into Kenya/Tanzania 4000 years ago.It's clear both E-M293 and E-V6 are Cushitic lineages and arrived with South cushitic pastoralists.

It coming from the direction of Arabia doesn’t necessarily mean it’s Arabian. E-V32 came from the direction of Egypt doesn’t make us Egyptian. T1a is a major lineage in Somalia and yet there are no Arabian influence in us other than that minor 1-10% Arabian influence which most people believe Habesha mediated. The E-V1515 migration into the horn predates this Arabian component that is based on the modern Yemenis used on the calculators.

It’s your job to proof to me any ancient E-V1515 lineage north of the Horn that is older than 4000 BCE. You won’t find it.
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 7:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

BulletProof doesn't realize that Arabians are oversampled and so even their African minority lineages would outnumber actual Africans from regions with high frequencies of that lineage.If we were to follow his way of assessing lineages we would be under the assumption that E-M293 is actually an Arabian lineage that entered the Horn.If it wasn't for Mota some people that think like you would be under the assumption it's some ancient Arabian subclade of E1b1a that left Africa

All the Arabians that have the mota lineage are on a fairly young TMRCA which proofs they were brought into Arabia as slaves. You can’t use that logic however with E-Z830 which has several Arabians on different branches with TMRCA of 10,000 years and more. On top of that we have the Natufians with this clade who’s ancestry is best associated with modern inhabitants of Arabia compared to any other living group which further proofs that E-Z830 expanded into the Arabian peninsula from the Fertile Crescent/ Levant in to Arabia and then the Horn.

Once again it’s your job to show ancient samples from the Nile valley with E-Z830.
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 7:55:00 AM

It’s best to let go of these old outdated theories.

Look at some of these ancient Z830 lineages. It’s clear to everyone that it entered the Horn, Kenya, Tanzania etc via Arabia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y141317*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC18673*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y37089/

I can find several more with TMRCA of 6000+ years. This theory of Cushitic expansion from the north only applies to E-V68/M78 not E-Z830.

These Arabians with Mota like lineage all have a fairly young TMRCA indicating possible slave trade.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M329/
Riverman 2/12/2023 8:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s best to let go of these old outdated theories.

Look at some of these ancient Z830 lineages. It’s clear to everyone that it entered the Horn, Kenya, Tanzania etc via Arabia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y141317*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC18673*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y37089/

I can find several more with TMRCA of 6000+ years. This theory of Cushitic expansion from the north only applies to E-V68/M78 not E-Z830.

These Arabians with Mota like lineage all have a fairly young TMRCA indicating possible slave trade.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M329/

We also see that e.g. J has a rather younger expansion into Arabia, presumably replacing local E1b1b lineages in the Southern Persian Gulf and especially Yemen. TMRCA's are really some of the best arguments we have if looking at founder effects, expansions and replacement events. If there is sufficient sampling, the gaps get closed and we can see, even with moderns, where the lineages came from. If one branch has a more recent, but the other constantly much deeper, older branching events, its at least a good indication.
drobbah 2/12/2023 9:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s best to let go of these old outdated theories.

Look at some of these ancient Z830 lineages. It’s clear to everyone that it entered the Horn, Kenya, Tanzania etc via Arabia.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y141317*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC18673*/

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y37089/

I can find several more with TMRCA of 6000+ years. This theory of Cushitic expansion from the north only applies to E-V68/M78 not E-Z830.

These Arabians with Mota like lineage all have a fairly young TMRCA indicating possible slave trade.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M329/

Cushitic theory makes far more sense than ghost Arabians that enter Kenya/Tanzania and intermix with South Cushitic nomads 5k years ago leaving no autosomal or archeological traces.When Arabians entered the Horn between 2500-3000 years ago we can actually see the affects it had made on local Cushitic populations from language,autosomal dna impact, technology, animals (camels) and affects on material culture.Lack of real archeological evidence,Arabians being oversampled and the fact that Arabia had received tons of slaves from SE Africa in the medieval era leads me to suspect all the E-M293 in Arabia are from SE Africa.E-V6 is in the same boat as well as Eritrea as Aksum had strong trade relations with Yemen which is why there are a ton of Yemenis on the V6 tree unlike for E-M293 where it is mostly Kuwaitis/Iraqis where the Zanj (SE African) slaves were notoriously shipped...doesn't sound like a coincidence there bud

E-M293 is a South Cushitic lineage which has nothing to do with 5k year old ghost Arabian migrants and the ancients we got, have no autosomal Arabian ancestry.Both E-V6 and E-M293 were lineages associated with the proto-cushites just like E-M78 lineages or haplogroup A lineages etc.Founder effects developed later on due to the patriarchal culture of these cushitic cattle nomads. Which is why lineages like E-V22 dominate the Saho while E-V6 dominates the Afar despite both being linguistically very close to each other.E-M34 is probably the only major E-Z830 clade that I would associate with Arabians, it can be found all over the Horn including among Somalis might be due to trade from antiquity/medieval or some subclades could have been one of the many Arabian lineages that entered the Horn 2500 years ago
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 9:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Riverman

We also see that e.g. J has a rather younger expansion into Arabia, presumably replacing local E1b1b lineages in the Southern Persian Gulf and especially Yemen. TMRCA's are really some of the best arguments we have if looking at founder effects, expansions and replacement events. If there is sufficient sampling, the gaps get closed and we can see, even with moderns, where the lineages came from. If one branch has a more recent, but the other constantly much deeper, older branching events, its at least a good indication.

Yes you are absolutely right when it comes to the age difference between E1b1b and J in Arabia. The former is way older in Arabia. Yfull, FTDNA and other such companies are a jewel when it comes to understanding the history and migration patterns of male lineages. The E1b1b folks in Arabia before the J and T immigrants would have had no Iran like ancestry. They would have been extremely similar to the Natufians from the Levant who they share the Z830 with.
Bulletproofpride 2/12/2023 10:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Cushitic theory makes far more sense than ghost Arabians that enter Kenya/Tanzania and intermix with South Cushitic nomads 5k years ago leaving no autosomal or archeological traces.When Arabians entered the Horn between 2500-3000 years ago we can actually see the affects it had made on local Cushitic populations from language,autosomal dna impact, technology, animals (camels) and affects on material culture.Lack of real archeological evidence,Arabians being oversampled and the fact that Arabia had received tons of slaves from SE Africa in the medieval era leads me to suspect all the E-M293 in Arabia are from SE Africa.E-V6 is in the same boat as well as Eritrea as Aksum had strong trade relations with Yemen which is why there are a ton of Yemenis on the V6 tree unlike for E-M293 where it is mostly Kuwaitis/Iraqis where the Zanj (SE African) slaves were notoriously shipped...doesn't sound like a coincidence there bud

E-M293 is a South Cushitic lineage which has nothing to do with 5k year old ghost Arabian migrants and the ancients we got, have no autosomal Arabian ancestry.Both E-V6 and E-M293 were lineages associated with the proto-cushites just like E-M78 lineages or haplogroup A lineages etc.Founder effects developed later on due to the patriarchal culture of these cushitic cattle nomads. Which is why lineages like E-V22 dominate the Saho while E-V6 dominates the Afar despite both being linguistically very close to each other.E-M34 is probably the only major E-Z830 clade that I would associate with Arabians, it can be found all over the Horn including among Somalis might be due to trade from antiquity/medieval or some subclades could have been one of the many Arabian lineages that entered the Horn 2500 years ago

E-Z830 entered the horn before the “Iran like” Arabian J1/T1 dominated folks colonised the peninsula. The horn would have been sparsely populated by then and only few hundred people (z830) from Arabia would have been enough to colonise the horn. Once again these E-Z830 folks had no Iran like ancestry that we see with the later wave of immigrants who were mostly J1 that entered the Horn during the sabean times.

Also why don’t we see E-Z830 further north? Why no ancient Nile valley samples? Why all of them E-M78?
Araz 2/14/2023 1:28:00 PM

@garacaad, do you mean the Cumar Maxamuud who shares a common ancestor with the Cismaan Maxamuud guy (E-FT414713)? I think they share a common ancestor about 400 years ago.
Garaacad 2/14/2023 9:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Araz

@garacaad, do you mean the Cumar Maxamuud who shares a common ancestor with the Cismaan Maxamuud guy (E-FT414713)? I think they share a common ancestor about 400 years ago.

The last time I checked the E-FT414713 guys share a 275 year old TMCRA. I am positive for Y18357 (E-BY8085 on YFull) but negative on Y227096. I’ll try and get Ibrahim & Maxamed Cumar guys to test for Y227096 to see if I am an outlier.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/15/2023 12:30:00 AM

I was chatting with this Ciise relative on 23andme and this what he told me. '' Basically Marehan are assimilated under few cisse jilib. One is under the Sacad Muse sub tribe and another is under Wardiq.'' He also told me that there are Marehan clans in the Afar in Garbo Ciise.
Bulletproofpride 2/15/2023 7:45:00 AM

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/i...4#post-3526160

Even this brother pointed out some of the issues I was having with this girls in regards to how she mentioned her lineage on other threads.
s1abx 2/16/2023 5:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/i...4#post-3526160

Even this brother pointed out some of the issues I was having with this girls in regards to how she mentioned her lineage on other threads.

They seem to have provided evidence to them being Sixawle. They previously mentioned a lot of things that only someone well informed on Sexawle could know. What would they gain from lying?
drobbah 2/16/2023 6:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I was chatting with this Ciise relative on 23andme and this what he told me. '' Basically Marehan are assimilated under few cisse jilib. One is under the Sacad Muse sub tribe and another is under Wardiq.'' He also told me that there are Marehan clans in the Afar in Garbo Ciise.

There is no marexaan in Sacad Muuse, I can assure you as a Sacad Muuse
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/16/2023 11:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There is no marexaan in Sacad Muuse, I can assure you as a Sacad Muuse

I asked him about it and this is what he mentioned to me. '' Yeah cissa have a sub under Celeye called Sacad Muse and one of the jilib Sacad Muse is Marehan. The problem is finding the jilib name is very hard''
Bulletproofpride 2/16/2023 11:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

They seem to have provided evidence to them being Sixawle. They previously mentioned a lot of things that only someone well informed on Sexawle could know. What would they gain from lying?

Apparently there are forculus with E-v32 and other karanle with T and J. This stuff is getting really interesting to be honest.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/i....142555/page-5
s1abx 2/16/2023 11:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Apparently there are forculus with E-v32 and other karanle with T and J. This stuff is getting really interesting to be honest.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/i....142555/page-5

I doubt there is a Karanle T. Forculus with E-V32 is normal, it is safe to assume all of Murusade are E-V32. However, Sexawle might be different as they probably assimilated a lot of people over the years when it was the biggest clan in the Harar area, from Hararis to anyone.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 12:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I doubt there is a Karanle T. Forculus with E-V32 is normal, it is safe to assume all of Murusade are E-V32. However, Sexawle might be different as they probably assimilated a lot of people over the years when it was the biggest clan in the Harar area, from Hararis to anyone.

Yeh this makes the most logical sense to me. I stick with what I see and so far I have only seen E-V32 and J1-P58. I don’t know why they would assume this T haplogroup to be part of the Karanle tribe. I am yet to see one with it. The guy called “niggaibnh” said one of his 2nd generation cousin is T but did not specify if it’s the paternal side. Even then it’s not certain they will get the same lineage. I myself speaking have half brothers from my mother’s side. Their paternal grandfather migrated from Yemen in the 20th century. All our children will be paternal cousins but will end up having different lineages.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 12:23:00 AM

Guys quick update about my DNA with nebula.

“Your DNA has been successfully extracted from your saliva sample”.

Does this mean I past the quality control?
s1abx 2/17/2023 6:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh this makes the most logical sense to me. I stick with what I see and so far I have only seen E-V32 and J1-P58. I don’t know why they would assume this T haplogroup to be part of the Karanle tribe. I am yet to see one with it. The guy called “niggaibnh” said one of his 2nd generation cousin is T but did not specify if it’s the paternal side. Even then it’s not certain they will get the same lineage. I myself speaking have half brothers from my mother’s side. Their paternal grandfather migrated from Yemen in the 20th century. All our children will be paternal cousins but will end up having different lineages.

Lool almost every Somali has a Yemeni family member. Alhamdulillah Hawiye meelba uguma baxo.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 7:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Lool almost every Somali has a Yemeni family member. Alhamdulillah Hawiye meelba uguma baxo.

The funny thing is they claim Sacad Habar Gidir because their paternal grandmother was one. You can just imagine how this will screw up the Y dna profile of clans.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/17/2023 12:42:00 PM

We have a new sample that joined Yfull under E-163949, any idea who that sample belongs to?
Caaqila 2/17/2023 7:49:00 PM

Asalamu Alaikum all,

Im the sexawle girl on SS who recently received my 23andme and I see that you briefly discussed my J haplogroup results.

I came across this page whilst trying to research what the different J subsclades mean and and what the difference between p58 and p56 etc is??

@bulletproof are you karanle, if so which one?
Caaqila 2/17/2023 8:02:00 PM

Asalamu Alaikum all,

Im the sexawle girl on SS who recently received my 23andme and I see that you briefly discussed my J haplogroup results.

I came across this page whilst trying to research what the different J subsclades mean and and what the difference between p58 and p56 etc is??

@bulletproof are you karanle, if so which one?
Garaacad 2/17/2023 10:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Asalamu Alaikum all,

Im the sexawle girl on SS who recently received my 23andme and I see that you briefly discussed my J haplogroup results.

I came across this page whilst trying to research what the different J subsclades mean and and what the difference between p58 and p56 etc is??

@bulletproof are you karanle, if so which one?

WSC,

Bulletproofpride is a Murusade. If you don't mind can you tell me more about your clan, there aren't too many of you online. Somalis are usually J-P58 whilst highlanders tend to have J-P56.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 10:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Asalamu Alaikum all,

Im the sexawle girl on SS who recently received my 23andme and I see that you briefly discussed my J haplogroup results.

I came across this page whilst trying to research what the different J subsclades mean and and what the difference between p58 and p56 etc is??

@bulletproof are you karanle, if so which one?

Oh my days, I am so excited to have you on this forum. There are so many things I want to know about Sixawle. Yes I am Karanle and close relative of yours via your reer apti since we both Abakar Sabti. Me being israfeel Abakar and your reer apti being codweyne Abakar.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 11:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new sample that joined Yfull under E-163949, any idea who that sample belongs to?

This branch is the proto Darood branch that has you and several other darood are on it right?
Caaqila 2/17/2023 11:07:00 PM

Omg ������ You're my reer ayeyo whom I was named after. Allah have mercy on her soul. She was israfiil, Dhaaley, reer Adan Cigaal. ��♥️ Farmajo is married to my Habaryar
Caaqila 2/17/2023 11:13:00 PM

Sure, my father is Yaxye Fiqi muuse Ardebare - a branch of Reer ciye Baad. I know there aren't many of us oline - I was raised by my reer Apti whom I'm super connected and close to... my ilmo adeer are mainly back in babili - I get super excited when I come across a fellow sexawle.
Bulletproofpride 2/17/2023 11:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Omg ������ You're my reer ayeyo whom I was named after. Allah have mercy on her soul. She was israfiil, Dhaaley, reer Adan Cigaal. ��♥️ Farmajo is married to my Habaryar

Allah have mercy on her soul and all the deceased. Oh my days, I am reer dhaaley, Aden cigaal too. I’m reer cabdi shareef. I can’t believe this.
Caaqila 2/18/2023 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Allah have mercy on her soul and all the deceased. Oh my days, I am reer dhaaley, Aden cigaal too. I’m reer cabdi shareef. I can’t believe this.

Mashallah, we're practically related... small world! My ayeyo was Cisman Farah Adan and your abdi Sharif Aden. Do you know Apti Ali Shiino?
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 12:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Mashallah, we're practically related... small world! My ayeyo was Cisman Farah Adan and your abdi Sharif Aden. Do you know Apti Ali Shiino?

Yes indeed it’s a small world. I wad raised by my reer apti who are Abgaal so I don’t really know much about specific individuals but my eedo on speed dial knows everything regarding Karanle. I will ask her about apti Cali shiino. I assume he is someone real close and significant.

You came to the right place when knowing more about your paternal haplogroup. There are Somalis and non Somali experts on this forum who know a lot about the P58 you was assigned to. It’s distantly related to P56.

Use this diagram to try and get a better understanding between the two. There are many important branches missing on this diagram but it gives you a rough idea where each branch goes.

[Bad Link]
Caaqila 2/18/2023 12:27:00 AM

Thank you. How do I know which one I fall into? P58 or P56 etc. Where do I find that information?
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 1:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Thank you. How do I know which one I fall into? P58 or P56 etc. Where do I find that information?

Good question. It seems that a lot of people who got J-CTS5368 are confused with what exact lineage they belong to specially considering that J-CTS5368 came on the scene about 19,000 years ago. I am sure others on this forum will know better then me. The thing is, even if you do find out which branch you belong to it still won’t tell you where exactly your origins are unless you do Big Y to dig deeper. I say this because the Horn of Africa has dozens of different J1 lineages. Some of whom were here since the Neolithic while others came recently. I am guessing you belong to one of the many P58 branches who’s people migrated from Arabia to the Hararghe region during the medieval period. I could be completely wrong. You could carry the original Karanle lineage for all we know since we don’t have that many Karanle samples. I would also suggest you make an additional separate thread at the J1 section on this forum regarding your J-CTS5368 while still being here with us.
Kelmendasi 2/18/2023 1:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Thank you. How do I know which one I fall into? P58 or P56 etc. Where do I find that information?

You can upload the raw data here: https://cladefinder.yseq.net/

Bear in mind however that it is a predictor and will not be able to classify your exact subclade. But it should at least confirm if you are positive for P58 or not.
farjanomar 2/18/2023 1:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new sample that joined Yfull under E-163949, any idea who that sample belongs to?

FTDNA has created a new Sub-clade of E-163949 (E-FTC83339). One is Ogaden-Bahgeri and a new guy (We don't know his clan) they should also

make a sub-clade on yfull.
Caaqila 2/18/2023 1:44:00 AM

Yess, someone else recommended that cladefinder website, it requires a males data so I'm just waiting for my brother to send over his. Thanks though.
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 2:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Yess, someone else recommended that cladefinder website, it requires a males data so I'm just waiting for my brother to send over his. Thanks though.

Where do most sixaawle live besides Baabili-Hararghe region? I know sixaawle were the sole Hawiye representative in south Somalia alongside Murusade and Sheekhaal when the Italians took the census. I also know both murusade and sixaawle live in Mogadishu and galguduud. Is it true that most Iimey Karanle are Gidir?

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 4:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has created a new Sub-clade of E-163949 (E-FTC83339). One is Ogaden-Bahgeri and a new guy (We don't know his clan) they should also

make a sub-clade on yfull.

Do you think it’s safe to say by now that the E-163949 is the darood sub clade?
Garaacad 2/18/2023 4:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Do you think it’s safe to say by now that the E-163949 is the darood sub clade?

Yep, it does seem to be the most appropriate for the time being.
Caaqila 2/18/2023 5:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Where do most sixaawle live besides Baabili-Hararghe region? I know sixaawle were the sole Hawiye representative in south Somalia alongside Murusade and Sheekhaal when the Italians took the census. I also know both murusade and sixaawle live in Mogadishu and galguduud. Is it true that most Iimey Karanle are Gidir?

[Bad Link]

So from what I know of, they live in and around the whole Fafan area, bunka Jigjiga, negeyle, iimeey. They also live in Shabeele hoose, kismaayo and baidoa. I don't think they live in Galgaduud to be honest.. never heard of that unless they've relocated post civil war??....

Iimeey is majority Gidir and then sexawle comes second from what I know
Caaqila 2/18/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Yep, it does seem to be the most appropriate for the time being.

It helps when there are multiple samples from the same sub clan.
Caaqila 2/18/2023 5:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has created a new Sub-clade of E-163949 (E-FTC83339). One is Ogaden-Bahgeri and a new guy (We don't know his clan) they should also

make a sub-clade on yfull.

I haven't come across ogaden results, what have most common haplogroup been for them?
Garaacad 2/18/2023 6:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

I haven't come across ogaden results, what have most common haplogroup been for them?

I think their most common high level haplogroup is E-V32.
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 7:22:00 AM

@farjonomar

What subclade under BY8081 was the new israfeel guy on FTDNA assigned again?
farjanomar 2/18/2023 7:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@farjonomar

What subclade under BY8081 was the new israfeel guy on FTDNA assigned again?

He is at E-BY8081 right now. He does not have a downstream subclade for now.
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 7:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

He is at E-BY8081 right now. He does not have a downstream subclade for now.

Was it not you who said he got assigned a specific clade under E-BY8081? You even gave the clades number but I forgot what it was.
farjanomar 2/18/2023 8:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Was it not you who said he got assigned a specific clade under E-BY8081? You even gave the clades number but I forgot what it was.

Yes. They first gave him a subclade of E-BY8081, then changed to E-BY8081 only.
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 8:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yes. They first gave him a subclade of E-BY8081, then changed to E-BY8081 only.

Why, what happened? Failed to pay the money?
farjanomar 2/18/2023 8:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why, what happened? Failed to pay the money?

Not at all. Its to do with corrections. I have seen them do that a lot.
Bulletproofpride 2/18/2023 9:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Not at all. Its to do with corrections. I have seen them do that a lot.

Thanks

Just an update guys. I received an email from nebula stating that my sample is going through the quality control process. If I pass this I will get my results in approximately 8 weeks time. If I don’t pass this then I have to retake my sample again.
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 1:30:00 AM

Guys why is the link between hg and abgaal 900 years ago when hiiraab is believed to be from the 1500s? I know Yfull can be a little bit of with the calculations but can it really be off by 400 years? Could it be that hiiraab is a much older tribe than what was originally believed?
s1abx 2/19/2023 1:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys why is the link between hg and abgaal 900 years ago when hiiraab is believed to be from the 1500s? I know Yfull can be a little bit of with the calculations but can it really be off by 400 years? Could it be that hiiraab is a much older tribe than what was originally believed?

How can you expect people to accurately examine two piece of canduuf and see how long ago the DNA in it are related in? That is why it is called an estimate and it is prone to a lot of mistakes, and I am pretty sure if you examine the Y-DNA of other clans you will get a similar result.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/19/2023 1:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys why is the link between hg and abgaal 900 years ago when hiiraab is believed to be from the 1500s? I know Yfull can be a little bit of with the calculations but can it really be off by 400 years? Could it be that hiiraab is a much older tribe than what was originally believed?

It's very unlikely that Hiraab was around 1500 years ago. For some reason the Somali abtirsi starts around 900 years ago for all the Somali clans tested so far, Dir are the only exception. However even for Dir, this can be explained by identity hence the older Dir clans seem to be identifying with around 900 years old abtirsi Hiniftire. This clearly shows Somali's started pattern lineages abtirsi after Islam. Perhaps Somalis were not in need of paternal abtirsi simply because they weren't nomadic camel herders prior to Islam. Or maybe Somalis clans identified with religious idols for clan identities such as waaq and Baal, and some might have been Christian. In that case, Somalis might have been canel herders prior to Islam.
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 1:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How can you expect people to accurately examine two piece of canduuf and see how long ago the DNA in it are related in? That is why it is called an estimate and it is prone to a lot of mistakes, and I am pretty sure if you examine the Y-DNA of other clans you will get a similar result.

Yeh but 900 years and 500 years is a big difference. That’s 400 year’s difference. How do you explain that?
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 2:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

It's very unlikely that Hiraab was around 1500 years ago. For some reason the Somali abtirsi starts around 900 years ago for all the Somali clans tested so far, Dir are the only exception. However even for Dir, this can be explained by identity hence the older Dir clans seem to be identifying with around 900 years old abtirsi Hiniftire. This clearly shows Somali's started pattern lineages abtirsi after Islam. Perhaps Somalis were not in need of paternal abtirsi simply because they weren't nomadic camel herders prior to Islam.

Most Somalis were camel herders since the ancient times when the ancient Greeks used to visit our coast. You don’t need to be a camel herder to have abtirsi. I do however believe that abtirsi started shortly after Islam.
Garaacad 2/19/2023 2:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

It's very unlikely that Hiraab was around 1500 years ago. For some reason the Somali abtirsi starts around 900 years ago for all the Somali clans tested so far, Dir are the only exception. However even for Dir, this can be explained by identity hence the older Dir clans seem to be identifying with around 900 years old abtirsi Hiniftire. This clearly shows Somali's started pattern lineages abtirsi after Islam. Perhaps Somalis were not in need of paternal abtirsi simply because they weren't nomadic camel herders prior to Islam.

He meant Hiiraab (the man) was living around the year 1500, not that he was alive 1500 years ago.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys why is the link between hg and abgaal 900 years ago when hiiraab is believed to be from the 1500s? I know Yfull can be a little bit of with the calculations but can it really be off by 400 years? Could it be that hiiraab is a much older tribe than what was originally believed?

It will go down as more people start uploading. The TMCRA of FT77328 should eventually come down to around 600-500 ypb. They overestimate because of some technical details I don't know much about.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/19/2023 2:43:00 AM

@Garacaad are the three Marehan samples on Yfull equally distance related? I expected the two to form a closer TMRC clade..
Garaacad 2/19/2023 2:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Garacaad are the three Marehan samples on Yfull equally distance related? I expected the two to form a closer TMRC clade..

You need two people who belong to the same clan uploading to YFull for a realistic TMCRA.
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 4:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

You need two people who belong to the same clan uploading to YFull for a realistic TMCRA.

2 abgaal belong to same clan and got a TMRCA of 450 years, the exact age that Hiiraab was supposed to live.
Garaacad 2/19/2023 4:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

2 abgaal belong to same clan and got a TMRCA of 450 years, the exact age that Hiiraab was supposed to live.

There is only one Habar Gidir sample available for a TMCRA calculation so that 450-year-old TMCRA likely isn't accurate.
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 4:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

There is only one Habar Gidir sample available for a TMCRA calculation so that 450-year-old TMCRA likely isn't accurate.

I don’t understand garaacad. There are 2 abgaal who are related who share an ancestor 450 years ago.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177088/

While these few samples who are also just 2 samples share an ancestor 275 years ago

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y227096/

I can find many more with 100 to 300 years TMRCA. Each of them only have 2 samples
Garaacad 2/19/2023 4:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I don’t understand garaacad. There are 2 abgaal who are related who share an ancestor 450 years ago.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177088/

While these few samples who are also just 2 samples share an ancestor 275 years ago

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y227096/

I can find many more with 100 to 300 years TMRCA. Each of them only have 2 samples

Subclade "formed" age: The TMRCA of a subclade is used as the "formed" age of each branch of the subclade. In other words, the formed age of a branch is the same as the TMRCA of the "parent" subclade of the branch.

Basically, if another E-FT77328 positive Habar Gidir uploads to YFull, the number of shared SNPs for everyone will go up and TMCRAs will come down.
Bulletproofpride 2/19/2023 5:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Subclade "formed" age: The TMRCA of a subclade is used as the "formed" age of each branch of the subclade. In other words, the formed age of a branch is the same as the TMRCA of the "parent" subclade of the branch.

Basically, if another E-FT77328 positive Habar Gidir uploads to YFull, the number of shared SNPs for everyone will go up and TMCRAs will come down.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177088/

Bro, this clade formed 950 years ago. The ancestor of the 2 abgaal brothers however was 450 years ago.

The HG joins after the 950 mark this why he was put in another clade who’s age is 2600. However the TMRCA of the 2 abgaal and the HG is 950 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT77328/

Another example - Age of E-BY8081 is 2600 years. But the TMRCA of that Murusade and MJ was found at the 1300 year mark.
s1abx 2/20/2023 4:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177088/

Bro, this clade formed 950 years ago. The ancestor of the 2 abgaal brothers however was 450 years ago.

The HG joins after the 950 mark this why he was put in another clade who’s age is 2600. However the TMRCA of the 2 abgaal and the HG is 950 years.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT77328/

Another example - Age of E-BY8081 is 2600 years. But the TMRCA of that Murusade and MJ was found at the 1300 year mark.

Yes, but there is only 1 Habargidir sample, so determining the link between the Abgaal and the HG samples is difficult and can often be inaccurate. What he is trying to say is that when more Habargidir samples come in is when it will be accurate.
Bulletproofpride 2/20/2023 4:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Yes, but there is only 1 Habargidir sample, so determining the link between the Abgaal and the HG samples is difficult and can often be inaccurate. What he is trying to say is that when more Habargidir samples come in is when it will be accurate.

I get what you’re saying but aren’t all the HG equally distant away from Abgaal? Is there a HG that is further or even closer from Abgaal than this current HG we have? I understand a wacdaan or ujajeen sample would help get the accuracy as they are closer to abgaal than HG. But let’s see and wait. I am sure more Hiiraab samples will come this year inshaAllah.
Garaacad 2/22/2023 5:11:00 AM

@Farjanomar

Any updates on what clan id: YF115244 belongs to? He's the new guy, right?
farjanomar 2/22/2023 12:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

@Farjanomar

Any updates on what clan id: YF115244 belongs to? He's the new guy, right?

Yes. I still don't know. I did not get back message.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 2/25/2023 2:17:00 AM

The new sample is probibally a Harti or Absame sub clan,it could be Jidwaag. I can't imagen why the new sample doesn't want to share his results with us lol.
Bulletproofpride 3/7/2023 2:19:00 AM

@Garaacad

I was listening to this interview of this Karanle elder to further understand the clans history. Apparently there was a time when we left Ethiopia, to Djibouti-Zeila to Nugaal and from there dispersed everywhere. Could this explain the E-BY8081 connections?

From minutes 7:15 till the end he talks about it.

he talks about the nugaal migration even more in this video.

2:29 onwards
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/7/2023 7:03:00 AM

@BulletProofPride . Yes you will probibally be EV32, E-by8081, either ways Karanle is abtirsi wise quite far, I would be surprised if they carry the same Y lineage as you. The Marehan in Galbeed Harar are closer related interms of abtirsi than those two Ahmed Hussein on Yfull. But we still can't be sure. However there is a chance you will share a TMRC lineage of around 900 years with those Karanle, as Somali abtirsi started around 900 years ago acording to my prediction.
drobbah 3/7/2023 7:24:00 AM

Who is that Hiiraan E-Y18629* sample? Which tribe does he belong too? Hawiye? Xawaadle?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/7/2023 8:00:00 AM

Hiraan sample is reer Aw hassan, they dont claim Hawiye or Xawaadle, they claim to be a stand alone sheekhaal tribe.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/7/2023 8:10:00 AM

The EV32 YTree is being rearanged, and there will probibally new TMRC'S update soon.
Bulletproofpride 3/8/2023 8:45:00 AM

Thanks Mujahid nur. I’m for sure going to be similar to those two dhaaley israfeel samples, no doubt about it. I just wish there were more Karanle samples doing the big Y. But sooner or later they should show up. I envy the Arabian Arabs who take this Big Y testing seriously. They got like thousands of samples.
Garaacad 3/9/2023 2:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad

I was listening to this interview of this Karanle elder to further understand the clans history. Apparently there was a time when we left Ethiopia, to Djibouti-Zeila to Nugaal and from there dispersed everywhere. Could this explain the E-BY8081 connections?

From minutes 7:15 till the end he talks about it.

he talks about the nugaal migration even more in this video.

2:29 onwards

Very interesting video. I guess the reasoning behind your theory is that MJ, as the younger clan, likely descends from older Hawiye subclans instead of a pre-proto-Hawiye clan.
Garaacad 3/9/2023 2:47:00 AM

^

Continuing on from the above post. I think what @Bulletproofpride is trying to say is that an early spilt within the Karanle or Murursade clans lead to the rise of the MJ clan, which is a slightly controversial take.
Bulletproofpride 3/10/2023 3:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

^

Continuing on from the above post. I think what @Bulletproofpride is trying to say is that an early spilt within the Karanle or Murursade clans lead to the rise of the MJ clan, which is a slightly controversial take.

The migration to nugaal was after the collapse of the Islamic sultanate. The TMRCA of MJ and those Murusade is much older. Come to think of it, if our abtirsi started a few centuries before then both of us would have had the same abtirsi. I believe we parted ways before the Adal or Ifat. There is a possibility that the Mj were part of the Harla-Somali kingdom based between Shewa and Zeila from the 6th century onwards up to the sultanate of shewa through to Ifat. Mj could have migrated anytime during these times towards Bari separating from their original homeland in Hararghe-Zeila.

One thing is for sure. This Y full tree will grow and we will get a precise picture of who is related to whom and we can pinpoint where each clan migrated to and from where soon inshaAllah.

There is some archaeological research taking place in the Harla /Somali region at the moment
Araz 3/10/2023 12:37:00 PM

Very interesting! I will read the research paper.
Garaacad 3/14/2023 4:38:00 AM

While we are on this topic, I think the biggest unknown is who was living in the Mudug province ~ 700 years ago. All of the various clans and subclans in the region claim to have originated in the North or in the South of Mudug.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/14/2023 5:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

While we are on this topic, I think the biggest unknown is who was living in the Mudug province ~ 700 years ago. All of the various clans and subclans in the region claim to have originated in the North or in the South of Mudug.

Somali's probibally expanded from Sanaag and the North West area and gradually expanded to the south in the 18th Century . If we want to know more of our ancient history, we would probibally have to resort to Archaeology in the Somali paninsuala, that's the only way.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/14/2023 6:27:00 AM

@BulletProofPride it seems to me that the time E-by8081, Majerteen and Murursade split of was centuries prior to Islam, at that time abtirsi was not adopted amongst Somali's. I will predict that Murursade and Sacad will link up at around the 900 year old mark, if the STR'S are accurate.
Garaacad 3/15/2023 3:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@BulletProofPride it seems to me that the time E-by8081, Majerteen and Murursade split of was centuries prior to Islam, at that time abtirsi was not adopted amongst Somali's. I will predict that Murursade and Sacad will link up at around the 900 year old mark, if the STR'S are accurate.

What. When I last checked, the Sacad guy sampled by FTDNA had multiple differences with the MJ test takers at Y37 and Y12. Or has the lone Sacad test taker on FTDNA upgraded from Y37?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/15/2023 4:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What. When I last checked, the Sacad guy sampled by FTDNA had multiple differences with the MJ test takers at Y37 and Y12. Or has the lone Sacad test taker on FTDNA upgraded from Y37?

No the Sacad is placed in the same group as the Murursade a while ago, however he hadn't upgraded yet.
Garaacad 3/15/2023 6:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

No the Sacad is placed in the same group as the Murursade a while ago, however he hadn't upgraded yet.

What does that grouping visually look like? I think I'm getting the wrong impression here. Do you mean the Sacad and the Murusade are still in that 'likely E-Y18637 various' cluster, or that they have both been placed in a new different cluster?

As far as I remember, that Sacad guy's Y-STR patterns differed from everyone else in the E-BY8081 cluster.
Bulletproofpride 3/15/2023 11:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@BulletProofPride it seems to me that the time E-by8081, Majerteen and Murursade split of was centuries prior to Islam, at that time abtirsi was not adopted amongst Somali's. I will predict that Murursade and Sacad will link up at around the 900 year old mark, if the STR'S are accurate.

Yeh TMRCA 1300 is literally year 700 around the time when the Rashidun caliphate were expanding. Abtirsi was not practiced yet.

Which Sacad? HG?
Bulletproofpride 3/16/2023 12:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Somali's probibally expanded from Sanaag and the North West area and gradually expanded to the south in the 18th Century . If we want to know more of our ancient history, we would probibally have to resort to Archaeology in the Somali paninsuala, that's the only way.

Yeh the guy I posted in the video is the Karanle garaad who says most of the tribes went to Nugaal and dispersed from there. Some returning to the highlands as the heat was unbearable in nugaal. I believe the others went south into mudug. This explains the habar Gidir connection with Gidir karanle’s daughter and abgaal’s grave being up north too. This route into the south makes more sense compared to the old believe of Hawiye expanding to the south from Ethiopia via the shabelle rivers.

I believe warsengeli would have been up north near bosaso before Mj. Hence he unique diverse paternal foreign lineages they have. Ogaden, Marexaan and all other darood a would have been somewhere in the north too.

I just don’t know if this nugaal migration was before Adal collapse or after.
Bulletproofpride 3/16/2023 9:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What does that grouping visually look like? I think I'm getting the wrong impression here. Do you mean the Sacad and the Murusade are still in that 'likely E-Y18637 various' cluster, or that they have both been placed in a new different cluster?

As far as I remember, that Sacad guy's Y-STR patterns differed from everyone else in the E-BY8081 cluster.

You mean E-BY8081* not E-Y18637. Anyways my results will be on Yfull thus making everything more clear.
farjanomar 3/17/2023 1:43:00 AM

@bulletproofpride. How much more, until you get you results? Did they give a timeline?
Bulletproofpride 3/17/2023 3:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@bulletproofpride. How much more, until you get you results? Did they give a timeline?

Currently it says “ Quality Control

Your sample has entered our multi-phase quality control process to ensure accurate results”.

It’s been saying this for some time now. Getting impatient to be honest.
Bulletproofpride 3/17/2023 3:44:00 AM

@farjanomar

Where in Somalia your ancestors from?
farjanomar 3/17/2023 4:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@farjanomar

Where in Somalia your ancestors from?

Gobalka Bari.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/20/2023 8:29:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Sent Nabula a message stating you need your results this month urgently. Make sure you provide your email and your kit number, when you sent them that message .
Bulletproofpride 3/21/2023 6:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride Sent Nabula a message stating you need your results this month urgently. Make sure you provide your email and your kit number, when you sent them that message .

Thanks I will do now!
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 3:38:00 AM

Ramadan kareem every one. Here is new update regarding my sample

Current Kit Status-

Sequencing:

“Your sample has passed all the control tests and is being sequenced!”
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 3:42:00 AM

90% sure I will be E-BY8081 and that’s only because of the previous 2 Murusade being dhaaley-Israfeel-Abakar- Sabti-Murusade like me.

9% possibility that I am negative for E-BY8081 and positive for other E-Y18629 branch.

Remaining 1% I am geussing T, J1 or other E-M215 lineage that’s not E-V32 lineage.
s1abx 3/23/2023 3:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Ramadan kareem every one. Here is new update regarding my sample

Current Kit Status-

Sequencing:

“Your sample has passed all the control tests and is being sequenced!”

Ramadan Mubarak wll. How long does it usually take to get your results after they start sequencing btw?
s1abx 3/23/2023 3:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

90% sure I will be E-BY8081 and that’s only because of the previous 2 Murusade being dhaaley-Israfeel-Abakar- Sabti-Murusade like me.

9% possibility that I am negative for E-BY8081 and possible for other E-Y18629 branch.

Remaining 1% I am geussing T, J1 or other E-M215 lineage that’s not E-V32 lineage.

You haven’t done 23andme?
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 6:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Ramadan Mubarak wll. How long does it usually take to get your results after they start sequencing btw?

Not sure wallah. They emailed me few days ago before this current update saying:

“ We apologize for the delay! Your sample right now is in the QC phase so please allow us a few more weeks to complete the sequencing of your sample.

Please note that the normal wait time in getting your results may take up to 12-14 weeks starting from the day we receive your sample. Your sample was accessioned last January 19th so it is still within the wait time.”

So I’m guessing I should be getting it by end of April latest.
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 6:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You haven’t done 23andme?

Nope. Went straight for the big Y. 23&me is not meant for tribal people like Somalis because E-V32 and T1 is too generic. I want to know my exact clan. I also wanted to confirm if those 2 israfeel guys are real or sheegato.

When you getting yours?
s1abx 3/23/2023 6:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Nope. Went straight for the big Y. 23&me is not meant for tribal people like Somalis because E-V32 and T1 is too generic. I want to know my exact clan. I also wanted to confirm if those 2 israfeel guys are real or sheegato.

When you getting yours?

Ahh. It would have been interesting to see if you got any rare percentages though, but yes it is more of a starter place.
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 8:55:00 PM

My results are ready.

When I click view results it says

“Your subscription is no longer active, all functionality has been limited to downloading your raw data. Your subscription fee has not been paid, go here to update your payment information or contact support for further assistance.”
Bulletproofpride 3/23/2023 9:08:00 PM

I tried updating my card but it refuses it. Apparently they tried to take 149.99 dollars. Why on earth are they taking this much money again? I choose the cheap subscription

I want to ask fellow members on this forum if this subscription fee they are asking is must to be paid. Is there a cheaper alternative? I thought it was 12.49 monthly and I could unsubscribe anytime I want?
farjanomar 3/23/2023 10:43:00 PM

Ramadan Mubarak to all.

The new subclade of E-163949 has been given 900 TMRCA. https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/
farjanomar 3/23/2023 10:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I tried updating my card but it refuses it. Apparently they tried to take 149.99 dollars. Why on earth are they taking this much money again? I choose the cheap subscription

I want to ask fellow members on this forum if this subscription fee they are asking is must to be paid. Is there a cheaper alternative? I thought it was 12.49 monthly and I could unsubscribe anytime I want?

My advise is go slow until you find enough info about how to avoid the huge membership fees. I did ftdna, can't help much.
Garaacad 3/23/2023 11:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I tried updating my card but it refuses it. Apparently they tried to take 149.99 dollars. Why on earth are they taking this much money again? I choose the cheap subscription

I want to ask fellow members on this forum if this subscription fee they are asking is must to be paid. Is there a cheaper alternative? I thought it was 12.49 monthly and I could unsubscribe anytime I want?

Send Nebula an email. This is probably an issue with their automatic payment processing system. Have you been paying their fee?

You are better off asking this question on r/Nebulagenomics. Looking forward to seeing your results.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 12:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Send Nebula an email. This is probably an issue with their automatic payment processing system. Have you been paying their fee?

You are better off asking this question on r/Nebulagenomics. Looking forward to seeing your results.

I emailed them earlier. They told me that another nebula staff member will soon contact me to discuss the matter.

I never paid them any subscription fee ever. I only paid a one off payment of £210. My intentions were to pay the monthly 12.49 till I got everything I need and then cancel the subscription immediately.
Saeed 3/24/2023 12:28:00 AM

They changed the order of the subclades under https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18637/ , does that signify anything?
Saeed 3/24/2023 12:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I emailed them earlier. They told me that another nebula staff member will soon contact me to discuss the matter.

I never paid them any subscription fee ever. I only paid a one off payment of £210. My intentions were to pay the monthly 12.49 till I got everything I need and then cancel the subscription immediately.

I just paid the fee which was a lifetime contract giving me access to Nebula forever with it's updates, but you just email them and tell them you want to do the monthly payment instead.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 12:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

They changed the order of the subclades under https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18637/ , does that signify anything?

Yeah I noticed this aswell. It changed completely.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 1:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I just paid the fee which was a lifetime contract giving me access to Nebula forever with it's updates, but you just email them and tell them you want to do the monthly payment instead.

Yeh I might pay the whole fee at once like you did but on a later date. For now I will go with the monthly subscription. Let’s see how it goes.
Garaacad 3/24/2023 2:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Ramadan Mubarak to all.

The new subclade of E-163949 has been given 900 TMRCA. https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

Hmm, id: YF115244 put down Togdheer as his ancestral region on his YFull profile. It looks like the unknown guy was Isaaq.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/24/2023 2:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Hmm, id: YF115244 put down Togdheer as his ancestral region on his YFull profile. It looks like the unknown guy was Isaaq.

He could be Dhulbahante or Isaaq, '' Toghdeer sample. I still haven't heard about his clan.
drobbah 3/24/2023 2:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Hmm, id: YF115244 put down Togdheer as his ancestral region on his YFull profile. It looks like the unknown guy was Isaaq.

Yes he seems to be and he shares 1200 ybp tmrca with an Ashraaf from Marka

Edit: Wrong Toghdheer sample.He’s probably Dhulo from Buhoodle district
farjanomar 3/24/2023 3:05:00 AM

[QUOTE=Garaacad;922213]Hmm, id: YF115244 put down Togdheer as his ancestral region on his YFull profile. It looks like the unknown guy was Isaaq.[/QUO

dhulos from buhodle most likely.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 3:18:00 AM

Email I received

“You selected the annual subscription plan. This is first charged when the results are made available in the full amount of the subscription. The $12.49 USD/month is showing the breakdown of what the $149.99 USD/year works out to so that customers can compare the different options.”
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 3:21:00 AM

@Saeed

It looks there never was a monthly subscription lol. They tricked me. I won’t see my result it seems until I pay either 99.99 every quarterly or 149.99 every year or 275 once for s lifetime subscription.

What’s the cheapest and smartest option? If I pay 99.99 (quarterly subscription) and unsubscribe afterwards will there be any problems in the future other than missing new scientific discoveries and updates?
s1abx 3/24/2023 3:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

My results are ready.

When I click view results it says

“Your subscription is no longer active, all functionality has been limited to downloading your raw data. Your subscription fee has not been paid, go here to update your payment information or contact support for further assistance.”

So they don’t allow you to view your results? I am not knowledgable in this section but if it is possible you should try downloading your raw data and maybe using it on that haplogroup predictor site if it works
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 3:30:00 AM

I can’t believe my results are ready for viewing but they won’t give me access to it. It says BAM file unavailable. BAI unavailable. FASTQ unavailable. VCF unavailable.

Your Files

“Important: These files can be very large, we recommend that you do not download them on your mobile device. Additionally, if you intend to use your raw data with a 3rd party interpretation service, we recommend only using your imputed VCF files provided below.The larger files ('CRAM' and 'FASTQ') will be archived after the first 14 days of the report availability. These files can still be downloaded, but will take a maximum of 48 hours to prepare. You can initiate this process by clicking "Restore". When your download is ready you will recieve an email notification.”
Saeed 3/24/2023 3:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Saeed

It looks there never was a monthly subscription lol. They tricked me. I won’t see my result it seems until I pay either 99.99 every quarterly or 149.99 every year or 275 once for s lifetime subscription.

What’s the cheapest and smartest option? If I pay 99.99 (quarterly subscription) and unsubscribe afterwards will there be any problems in the future other than missing new scientific discoveries and updates?

If it lets you download the raw data without paying so you can upload to YFull, do that, if not go with the cheapest subscription (Nebula will upload to YFull for you this way) and then cancel before it renews.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 3:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

So they don’t allow you to view your results? I am not knowledgable in this section but if it is possible you should try downloading your raw data and maybe using it on that haplogroup predictor site if it works

Yeh I don’t think they are giving me access to the raw data. Apparently it’s on the FASTQ or one of the other files. They are all unavailable at the moment and I believe this is due to not paying the subscription. I was expecting a 14.99 dollar subscription bill but got handed a bill of 149.99 lol.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 3:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

If it lets you download the raw data without paying so you can upload to YFull, do that, if not go with the cheapest subscription (Nebula will upload to YFull for you this way) and then cancel before it renews.

Yes this makes sense. I trust you because you did nebula too right? I don’t want to make the same mistake again lol. So what you are saying is that I must pay the 149 yearly subscription. Nebula would then in return put my results on Yfull for me. Then when we reach next year 2024 March I will unsubscribe fro nebula as I do not need them anymore?
Gentica277282 3/24/2023 4:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes this makes sense. I trust you because you did nebula too right? I don’t want to make the same mistake again lol. So what you are saying is that I must pay the 149 yearly subscription. Nebula would then in return put my results on Yfull for me. Then when we reach next year 2024 March I will unsubscribe fro nebula as I do not need them anymore?

No just do the quarterly and cancel it, that's what I did I don't need the reports

How long did it take you to get your results after reaching the lab?
Saeed 3/24/2023 4:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes this makes sense. I trust you because you did nebula too right? I don’t want to make the same mistake again lol. So what you are saying is that I must pay the 149 yearly subscription. Nebula would then in return put my results on Yfull for me. Then when we reach next year 2024 March I will unsubscribe fro nebula as I do not need them anymore?

Yeah pay for the cheapest option and then when they upload to YFull for you, you can cancel before it renews, they say on the website you can cancel the membership at anytime.

"Membership begins when sequencing is completed. Сancel anytime"

To upload to YFull, go to where it says "Deep Ancestry" and click transfer at the bottom.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 4:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Gentica277282

No just do the quarterly and cancel it, that's what I did I don't need the reports

How long did it take you to get your results after reaching the lab?

Oh didn’t see your message. That’s a smart idea. Just pay the quarterly and run away lol. Thanks for this advice

My results reached the lab on the 19th January
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 4:58:00 AM

Guys I’m so excited. What if I’m not from the two common lineages in Somalia E-V32 or T1? What if I am a rare species with a unique lineage older than A00? I can’t sleep. Im over thinking all this.

Hey saeed I’m going to pay the quarterly subscription fee tomorrow. How long before they have my results on Yfull or Ftdna you reckon?
Saeed 3/24/2023 5:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys I’m so excited. What if I’m not from the two common lineages in Somalia E-V32 or T1? What if I am a rare species with a unique lineage older than A00? I can’t sleep. Im over thinking all this.

Hey saeed I’m going to pay the quarterly subscription fee tomorrow. How long before they have my results on Yfull or Ftdna you reckon?

YFull will email you "preliminary results" within 24 hours I think.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 5:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

YFull will email you "preliminary results" within 24 hours I think.

Wow 24 hours? That’s quick. With preliminary I assume you mean E-….* right? Basically the clade with the star that still needs to be assigned it’s own unique number right?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/24/2023 5:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Wow 24 hours? That’s quick. With preliminary I assume you mean E-….* right? Basically the clade with the star that still needs to be assigned it’s own unique number right?

No, on my preliminary results they asighned me a very deep clade E-163928, so if you test positive for a established clade on Yfull, they will asighn you straight away.
Saeed 3/24/2023 5:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Wow 24 hours? That’s quick. With preliminary I assume you mean E-….* right? Basically the clade with the star that still needs to be assigned it’s own unique number right?

This is the email they sent me:

"The Y chromosome haplogroup of your sample YF107912 was preliminarily determined to be E-FT77328. You can view it in the YTree here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18637/

We will notify you when the full analysis of your sample has been completed.

Best regards,

The YFull Team"
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 6:10:00 AM

@saeed & mujahid nur

This means my results would be on Yfull tomorrow this time?
Saeed 3/24/2023 6:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@saeed & mujahid nur

This means my results would be on Yfull tomorrow this time?

Maybe if you click the transfer button now, at most maybe the day after.
Bulletproofpride 3/24/2023 6:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Maybe if you click the transfer button now, at most maybe the day after.

Yeh I don’t think I can do anything right now. Everything on my side looks disabled. I think they want the prescription payment. I emailed them. They should get back to me tomorrow. I will update you guys as usual.
s1abx 3/26/2023 4:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh I don’t think I can do anything right now. Everything on my side looks disabled. I think they want the prescription payment. I emailed them. They should get back to me tomorrow. I will update you guys as usual.

Any updates brother?
Bulletproofpride 3/26/2023 4:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Any updates brother?

They emailed me on Friday saying that they don’t really change subscription fees for people but they will try and do me a one off favour. The current subscription I am on is 149.99 while the one I am trying to switch to is 75.00

They said they need to discuss this with the higher ups in the company to get permission to change subscription rates

This was on Friday and I assume they don’t work on Saturday and Sunday. I will therefore email them back on Monday to get any updates. If they refuse to change my subscription rate then I have no choice but to pay 149.99
s1abx 3/26/2023 7:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

They emailed me on Friday saying that they don’t really change subscription fees for people but they will try and do me a one off favour. The current subscription I am on is 149.99 while the one I am trying to switch to is 75.00

They said they need to discuss this with the higher ups in the company to get permission to change subscription rates

This was on Friday and I assume they don’t work on Saturday and Sunday. I will therefore email them back on Monday to get any updates. If they refuse to change my subscription rate then I have no choice but to pay 149.99

Lool you should’ve just done FTDNA. Anyway, did you see this?

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/u...3andme.145235/

It is a Harti Abgaal individual with a B-M112 haplogroup. It seems it is most common in West Africa and a large number of Gulf Arabs have it too for some reason. It is also found in Malagasy individuals and in high frequency in South Sudan+ Sudan as well as Ethiopia. On the FTDNA website it says 117 from Saudi, 30 from Angola, 29 from Kuwait and 29 from other countries. I don’t see it being a descendant of the slaves brought to Somalia,, as they are mostly from Southern Africa. I doubt one can know however unless the person posts their autosomal makeup for any weird percentages.
Saeed 3/26/2023 9:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Lool you should’ve just done FTDNA. Anyway, did you see this?

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/u...3andme.145235/

It is a Harti Abgaal individual with a B-M112 haplogroup. It seems it is most common in West Africa and a large number of Gulf Arabs have it too for some reason. It is also found in Malagasy individuals and in high frequency in South Sudan+ Sudan as well as Ethiopia. On the FTDNA website it says 117 from Saudi, 30 from Angola, 29 from Kuwait and 29 from other countries. I don’t see it being a descendant of the slaves brought to Somalia,, as they are mostly from Southern Africa. I doubt one can know however unless the person posts their autosomal makeup for any weird percentages.

FTDNA is more expensive, even when you include Nebula's subscription.

Also I heard you have to pay to get your raw data from FTDNA, whereas Nebula upload it for you themselves.
Bulletproofpride 3/27/2023 2:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Lool you should’ve just done FTDNA. Anyway, did you see this?

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/u...3andme.145235/

It is a Harti Abgaal individual with a B-M112 haplogroup. It seems it is most common in West Africa and a large number of Gulf Arabs have it too for some reason. It is also found in Malagasy individuals and in high frequency in South Sudan+ Sudan as well as Ethiopia. On the FTDNA website it says 117 from Saudi, 30 from Angola, 29 from Kuwait and 29 from other countries. I don’t see it being a descendant of the slaves brought to Somalia,, as they are mostly from Southern Africa. I doubt one can know however unless the person posts their autosomal makeup for any weird percentages.

Yeh I saw that right now. It’s one of those old African lineages. Could it be native to Somalia or did it come with the ancient Cushitic pastoralist from further north?
s1abx 3/27/2023 3:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh I saw that right now. It’s one of those old African lineages. Could it be native to Somalia or did it come with the ancient Cushitic pastoralist from further north?

I doubt it is native. Apparently it is associated with Hunter Gatherers though.
drobbah 3/27/2023 3:12:00 AM

Might be of HG origin but considering it’s a Southerner, it’s very possible that he has a Bantu paternal ancestor
Bulletproofpride 3/27/2023 4:17:00 AM

S1bax what’s your haplotype?
s1abx 3/27/2023 1:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

S1bax what’s your haplotype?

Haplogroup? No idea. I am guessing it would be E-V32 or J1 though considering two people from my subsub of Abgaal got those results with 100% Somali, meaning the whole clan is possibly split into two.
s1abx 3/27/2023 1:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Might be of HG origin but considering it’s a Southerner, it’s very possible that he has a Bantu paternal ancestor

Slaves were mostly from Southern Africa so I highly doubt that. It is quite common in Sudan and Ethiopia too.
Bulletproofpride 3/27/2023 7:17:00 PM

My nebula results ready!
Bulletproofpride 3/27/2023 7:19:00 PM

They stole my 149.99 by force lol. Where do I click to see my haplogroup? Or is it only after I upload it on Yfull that I will see it? Guys help.
Garaacad 3/27/2023 7:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

They stole my 149.99 by force lol. Where do I click to see my haplogroup? Or is it only after I upload it on Yfull that I will see it? Guys help.

https://youtu.be/AtTtjBTGFkc

Skip through the video linked above to get to the relevant parts.
Bulletproofpride 3/27/2023 7:35:00 PM

Ok thanks. I’m at work now. I will watch it when I am free later on.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 1:22:00 AM

I’ve send off my CRAM file to Yfull. I copied and paste the link to the CRAM file to Yfull.

Automated reply saying “Hello! Your order will be verified by the manager. If the raw data link is correct, your analysis will be batched. Login and password will be sent to your email address. Notification for payment will be sent after completion of the interpretation. Thanks.”
farjanomar 3/28/2023 1:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I’ve send off my CRAM file to Yfull. I copied and paste the link to the CRAM file to Yfull.

Automated reply saying “Hello! Your order will be verified by the manager. If the raw data link is correct, your analysis will be batched. Login and password will be sent to your email address. Notification for payment will be sent after completion of the interpretation. Thanks.”

Congrats bro, your results finally here, although you paid more than expected.
Saeed 3/28/2023 1:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I’ve send off my CRAM file to Yfull. I copied and paste the link to the CRAM file to Yfull.

Automated reply saying “Hello! Your order will be verified by the manager. If the raw data link is correct, your analysis will be batched. Login and password will be sent to your email address. Notification for payment will be sent after completion of the interpretation. Thanks.”

Bro why did you do this long stuff lol, you should've just went to "reporting" then "deep ancestry" scroll down and click transfer to yfull and they wouldve created you an account instantly
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 1:48:00 AM

Thank you brother farjanomar and every other person out there who helped me out.

You are right they took 149.99 without my consent. I was going to by furniture with that money because I’m moving into a new property. Now I need to pay Yfull lol.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 1:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Bro why did you do this long stuff lol, you should've just went to "reporting" then "deep ancestry" scroll down and click transfer to yfull and they wouldve created you an account instantly

Lol. I have done what you said right now. It was much easier your way. What an idiot I am.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 1:59:00 AM

Saeed when I did your way now I received this message instantly saying

“ Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

What’s the difference between the messages? I must have send something different previously.
Saeed 3/28/2023 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Saeed when I did your way now I received this message instantly saying

“ Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

What’s the difference between the messages? I must have send something different previously.

The first one says "if the raw data link is correct", this way is more accurate, you just let Nebula do it for you. Now just wait for YFull's email.
Saeed 3/28/2023 3:11:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride Your result is up it seems, you got the same result as the Murusade guy before I think? Interesting.
s1abx 3/28/2023 3:14:00 AM

Is your result the new one under E-BY8081 that says analysis in progress?
farjanomar 3/28/2023 3:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Is your result the new one under E-BY8081 that says analysis in progress?

Yes that's him, just saw it also.
Garaacad 3/28/2023 3:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Is your result the new one under E-BY8081 that says analysis in progress?

It can't be anyone other than @Bulletproofpride; the testing company is Nebula.

Originally Posted by Saeed

@Bulletproofpride Your result is up it seems, you got the same result as the Murusade guy before I think? Interesting.

It's still early, but I think E-BY8081 is the dominant lineage in the Murursade clan. It would be great if we could get another more genealogically distant Murursade sample on YFull, since @Bulletproofpride shares an 8th-generation ancestor with the previous Murusades.
Saeed 3/28/2023 3:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

It can't be anyone other than @Bulletproofpride; the testing company is Nebula.

It's still early, but I think E-BY8081 is the dominant lineage in the Murursade clan. It would be great if we could get another more genealogically distant Murursade sample on YFull, since @Bulletproofpride shares an 8th-generation ancestor with the previous Murusades.

So @Bulletproofpride is closer to you than to me on there, is E-BY192465 the true Hawiye subclade?
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 3:48:00 AM

Lol I just see it now. No surprise there. The Murusade before was closely related to me.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 3:51:00 AM

I can’t believe this. ��
Garaacad 3/28/2023 3:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

So @Bulletproofpride is closer to you than to me on there, is E-BY192465 the true Hawiye subclade?

I honestly don't know. To me, it just looks like Murusades don't have the same ancestor as Hiiraabs.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I can’t believe this. ��

What's so hard to believe?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/28/2023 4:07:00 AM

It's quite overwhelming, when you take the test you could pretty much land any sub clade or Yfull page . It will take a very long time for your mind to process your new paternal origin.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 4:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

So @Bulletproofpride is closer to you than to me on there, is E-BY192465 the true Hawiye subclade?

Saeed my brother. Hawiye and Karanle are interchangeable. They are both sides of the same coin. Remember hawiye is buried in Qundhura and we all know who lives there. Also I doubt Hawiye was 2600 years old. E-BY192465 is 2600 years old. The TMRCA of 1350 that separates Murusade from MJ is perfect match for Hawiye. Remember our abtirsi started roughly after Islam not during Alexander the greats time at 600 BC. So far we only have hiiraab on that branch of yours. Who knows what the E-V32 Hawiye near Babili will get?
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 4:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I honestly don't know. To me, it just looks like Murusades don't have the same ancestor as Hiiraabs.

What's so hard to believe?

That my results are on Yfull. Also the fact that I am only 1350 years away from your average MJ while the Hiiraab brothers are 2600 years separated from me.
Saeed 3/28/2023 4:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That my results are on Yfull. Also the fact that I am only 1350 years away from your average MJ while the Hiiraab brothers are 2600 years separated from me.

Your result was just uploaded on there, the tmrca will change, your result needs to finish analysing first, it won't stay at 1350 probably.
Garaacad 3/28/2023 5:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That my results are on Yfull. Also the fact that I am only 1350 years away from your average MJ while the Hiiraab brothers are 2600 years separated from me.

Yeah, the results have been fairly interesting. By the way, have you convinced your Murusades friends on Twitter of the deep Y testing merits of Nebula.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 5:24:00 AM

Yes I have. The forculus ones I want to take samples from. Hopefully they will do it.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 7:33:00 AM

Who is this majerteen guy bombarding my thread on SSpot? Is he on this forum? What does he mean by “why don’t u upload the murusade result of ftdna to yfull $100 dollar for ftdna raw data and the 50 yfull fee=$150”

Nur ibn mujahid what does it mean?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/28/2023 11:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who is this majerteen guy bombarding my thread on SSpot? Is he on this forum? What does he mean by “why don’t u upload the murusade result of ftdna to yfull $100 dollar for ftdna raw data and the 50 yfull fee=$150”

Nur ibn mujahid what does it mean?

IHe is a old Marexaan Somali spot user lol. Don't wory about Libaax joore.
Omaar 3/28/2023 3:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That my results are on Yfull. Also the fact that I am only 1350 years away from your average MJ while the Hiiraab brothers are 2600 years separated from me.

Congratulations. The TMRCA of Murusade would be very interesting.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 8:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Omaar

Congratulations. The TMRCA of Murusade would be very interesting.

Thank you brother
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 8:07:00 PM

It looks like I got my own clade. I didn’t pay anything though. Could they have given me the other Murusade on FTDNA?
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 8:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

IHe is a old Marexaan Somali spot user lol. Don't wory about Libaax joore.

So who is the real marexaan you or him? I thought he was MJ?
farjanomar 3/28/2023 9:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It looks like I got my own clade. I didn’t pay anything though. Could they have given me the other Murusade on FTDNA?

Yeah, congrats. I think they matched you with the Murursade guy, Coz they still have his files although he is not there anymore.
Bulletproofpride 3/28/2023 11:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yeah, congrats. I think they matched you with the Murursade guy, Coz they still have his files although he is not there anymore.

Thank you brother. The previous Murusade did not have his own unique clade though. Aren’t you supposed to pay to be assigned one? I thought he refused to pay. Could this unique clade have been given to me because of the Murusade on FTDNA?
Riverman 3/28/2023 11:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you brother. The previous Murusade did not have his own unique clade though. Aren’t you supposed to pay to be assigned one? I thought he refused to pay. Could this unique clade have been given to me because of the Murusade on FTDNA?

If you have paid you being grouped with the other tester even if he didn't pay. There are various subclades on YFull with just one member because of that. Those which don't pay get deleted, but the new subclade stays usually afaik.
farjanomar 3/29/2023 2:16:00 AM

@Bulletproove I think the Murursade sample can be added to yfull without paying the $100, by only using only VCF file instead of BAM.

quite few members on yfull have only VCF. I will like to ask members here if that will be enough?
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 3:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bulletproove I think the Murursade sample can be added to yfull without paying the $100, by only using only VCF file instead of BAM.

quite few members on yfull have only VCF. I will like to ask members here if that will be enough?

Brother how do I do this. I want to see my TMRCA with the other Murusade on FTDNA. Direct me on what to do. I have been thinking about the E-By8081 tree a lot today. The mj TMRCA is 1200 years old. This means the MJ patriarch who started abtirsi 1200 years ago was only 150 years ago separated from the Karanle Hawiye patriarch. Meaning they are only separated by 4-5 forefathers. This means when they both started the abtirsi they must have been from the same village or town. This is mind boggling indeed. But DNA doesn’t know Karanle or Mj or any of the Somali patriarchs. Can someone help interpret the past event for me please. Could the TMRCA be much bigger because 150 year gap between the 2 groups sounds way too small.
farjanomar 3/29/2023 4:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Brother how do I do this. I want to see my TMRCA with the other Murusade on FTDNA. Direct me on what to do. I have been thinking about the E-By8081 tree a lot today. The mj TMRCA is 1200 years old. This means the MJ patriarch who started abtirsi 1200 years ago was only 150 years ago separated from the Karanle Hawiye patriarch. Meaning they are only separated by 4-5 forefathers. This means when they both started the abtirsi they must have been from the same village or town. This is mind boggling indeed. But DNA doesn’t know Karanle or Mj or any of the Somali patriarchs. Can someone help interpret the past event for me please. Could the TMRCA be much bigger because 150 year gap between the 2 groups sounds way too small.

I think Mujahid Nuur can help you with that, and who ever has his kit # and password. Also you tell Libaaxjoore to upload the VCF file to Yfull and you will pay for the Yfull fee.

Secondly i see brother that you have too much trust in age estimation/TMRCA. A lot People don't trust TMRCA's because the technology they are using is not yet advanced.Like me and others just focus on SNPs and their relationships. which is the most accurate thing they have.

For example: The Leelkase linked SNP. E-Y362403 is only 125 TMRCA (Darood Son clan) and I got 900 TMRCA iam like grand-gran-grand..... son clan of Darood.plus our ancestor (E-Y163949) is also 900 TMRCA that does not make sense at all.
Garaacad 3/29/2023 4:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Brother how do I do this. I want to see my TMRCA with the other Murusade on FTDNA. Direct me on what to do. I have been thinking about the E-By8081 tree a lot today. The mj TMRCA is 1200 years old. This means the MJ patriarch who started abtirsi 1200 years ago was only 150 years ago separated from the Karanle Hawiye patriarch. Meaning they are only separated by 4-5 forefathers. This means when they both started the abtirsi they must have been from the same village or town. This is mind boggling indeed. But DNA doesn’t know Karanle or Mj or any of the Somali patriarchs. Can someone help interpret the past event for me please. Could the TMRCA be much bigger because 150 year gap between the 2 groups sounds way too small.

We can't connect subclades of E-BY8081 to historical individuals yet, because MJs from older subclans remain underrepresented on YFull. We can only speculate about the MCRA of MJs and Murusades for now. But first, we need a Gungundhabe and older Murusade subclans on YFull to get a better idea of how our clans are related.
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 5:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I think Mujahid Nuur can help you with that, and who ever has his kit # and password. Also you tell Libaaxjoore to upload the VCF file to Yfull and you will pay for the Yfull fee.

Secondly i see brother that you have too much trust in age estimation/TMRCA. A lot People don't trust TMRCA's because the technology they are using is not yet advanced.Like me and others just focus on SNPs and their relationships. which is the most accurate thing they have.

For example: The Leelkase linked SNP. E-Y362403 is only 125 TMRCA (Darood Son clan) and I got 900 TMRCA iam like grand-gran-grand..... son clan of Darood.plus our ancestor (E-Y163949) is also 900 TMRCA that does not make sense at all.

What is VCF and why does libaax guy have it? Mujahid Nur what can you do for me?

Why do you believe Y163149 is more than 900 years old. There are enough samples on the tree to get the correct tmrca. Do you think it should be more? What clans are on that branch? Are both E-Y362403 leelKasse? The Y163149 has so many terminals.
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 5:47:00 AM

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y325713/

Is this my clade?

Why does it not show on this tee https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/29/2023 5:59:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride I can try to give you the murursade famkly tree loqin details. Privately inshallah.
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 6:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

We can't connect subclades of E-BY8081 to historical individuals yet, because MJs from older subclans remain underrepresented on YFull. We can only speculate about the MCRA of MJs and Murusades for now. But first, we need a Gungundhabe and older murusade on YFull to get a better idea of how our clans are related.

When you mean older you mean murusade like forculus who are more distantly away from me right? Will that calibrate the TMRCA?

If you get older MJ branches tested how will that impact the distance between Karanle and MJ? The gap between our ancestors would still be the same right? I mean, in the eyes of science a murusade will always be equally distantly away from all the other MJ branches. Or am I missing out on something? And if we get a gugundhabe the gap between Murusade and MJ will still be the same right?
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 6:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Bulletproofpride I can try to give you the murursade famkly tree loqin details. Privately inshallah.

Yes please. The murusade guy probably closer to me than we think.
Saeed 3/29/2023 6:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y325713/

Is this my clade?

Why does it not show on this tee https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8081/

YFull updates the site every month or two, you can see at the bottom it says last updated 24th march, the "live" section is always updated though, so in a month or two it will be on the normal section as well.
Garaacad 3/29/2023 6:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When you mean older you mean murusade like forculus who are more distantly away from me right? Will that calibrate the TMRCA?

If you get older MJ branches tested how will that impact the distance between Karanle and MJ? The gap between our ancestors would still be the same right? I mean, in the eyes of science a murusade will always be equally distantly away from all the other MJ branches. Or am I missing out on something? And if we get a gugundhabe the gap between Murusade and MJ will still be the same right?

Yes, but if your theory of MJs being descendants of Karanle (the man) is correct, the parent subclade of the oldest MJ subclans should be Karanle in origin.
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 7:27:00 AM

My Mtdna L0a1d1c

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L0a1d1c/
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 7:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Yes, but if your theory of MJs being descendants of Karanle (the man) is correct, the parent subclade of the oldest MJ subclans should be Karanle in origin.

No brother you misunderstood me.

Karanle Hawiye and Mj are from a proto Somali man that lived before the abtirsi started. This is what the DNA is telling us.

It’s like me and you for example. Say we share a common great grandfather who’s name is Mike. I started my own tribe by making sure my children always keep my name alive through abtirsi. Your children are doing the same. My descendants will be called bulletproof while yours are called garaacad. The garaacad tribe won’t know that they are related to Bulletproof because their abtirsi only ends with garaacad but science and DNA shows both tribes garaacad and bulletproof are linked by a man called Mike. This TMRCA of 1350 is Mike. In our case we don’t know the name of this common ancestor as he is older than both Karanle Hawiye and Mj. Hope this explains
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 7:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

YFull updates the site every month or two, you can see at the bottom it says last updated 24th march, the "live" section is always updated though, so in a month or two it will be on the normal section as well.

Thanks bro
farjanomar 3/29/2023 7:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What is VCF and why does libaax guy have it? Mujahid Nur what can you do for me?

Why do you believe Y163149 is more than 900 years old. There are enough samples on the tree to get the correct tmrca. Do you think it should be more? What clans are on that branch? Are both E-Y362403 leelKasse? The Y163149 has so many terminals.

FTDNA has two different files that you can load, a big one BAM and a smaller one VCF one is free. BAM is $100.

I meant the distance btw Y163949 and me- I am 30 plus generation from Darood. How can i have the same 900 TMCRA.
Bulletproofpride 3/29/2023 7:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has two different files that you can load, a big one BAM and a smaller one VCF one is free. BAM is $100.

I meant the distance btw Y163949 and me- I am 30 plus generation from Darood. How can i have the same 900 TMCRA.

Maybe because Y163949 is not darood but one of the descendants of darood that also happens to father all those tribes under Y163949. Could you please name all the tribes under Y163949 with their sub clades please. I’m trying to paint a picture. It looks like Y163949 is as old as Hiiraab.
farjanomar 3/29/2023 9:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Maybe because Y163949 is not darood but one of the descendants of darood that also happens to father all those tribes under Y163949. Could you please name all the tribes under Y163949 with their sub clades please. I’m trying to paint a picture. It looks like Y163949 is as old as Hiiraab.

E-Y183949 has 4 main subclades now:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163949*/

And 3 sub-subclades:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT24258*/
Mujahid Nur Marehan 3/29/2023 11:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

E-Y183949 has 4 main subclades now:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163949*/

And 3 sub-subclades:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT24258*/

Your Wabeneeye sample should have formed maximum 850 years ago, and have had a younger TMRC your shared with the rest of Wabeneeye. Also your Harti clade and E-163949 can't share same TMRC.

@BulletProofpride those mudug samples on E-163949 are Lelkase samples.
Omaar 3/29/2023 1:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Brother how do I do this. I want to see my TMRCA with the other Murusade on FTDNA. Direct me on what to do. I have been thinking about the E-By8081 tree a lot today. The mj TMRCA is 1200 years old. This means the MJ patriarch who started abtirsi 1200 years ago was only 150 years ago separated from the Karanle Hawiye patriarch. Meaning they are only separated by 4-5 forefathers. This means when they both started the abtirsi they must have been from the same village or town. This is mind boggling indeed. But DNA doesn’t know Karanle or Mj or any of the Somali patriarchs. Can someone help interpret the past event for me please. Could the TMRCA be much bigger because 150 year gap between the 2 groups sounds way too small.

You can try to do the age estimation of E-Y325713 by following these instructions.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 3:13:00 AM

I can’t believe I have my own subclade. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/
capsian 3/30/2023 4:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I can’t believe I have my own subclade. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/

Maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 4:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?

That E-Y325713 is my sample brother. Are you on Yfull?
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 4:50:00 AM

What are the clans under each of these clades. I’m trying to find out how Somali Darood clans are structured.

E-Y163928*

E-Y163949

E-Y163949*

E-FTC83339

E-Y362403

E-Y272428

E-FT24258

E-FT24258*

E-FT81055

E-FT18668

E-FT18668*

E-FT21265

E-FT21265*

E-FT22485
capsian 3/30/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That E-Y325713 is my sample brother. Are you on Yfull?

Yeah im in YFull , but im not E-V32
capsian 3/30/2023 5:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That E-Y325713 is my sample brother. Are you on Yfull?

congrat brother , but is impossible to formed single sample new branch
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 6:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

congrat brother , but is impossible to formed single sample new branch

I don’t understand brother, it looks like I’m an independent branch called E-Y325713

Are you E-M183?
capsian 3/30/2023 6:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I don’t understand brother, it looks like I’m an independent branch called E-Y325713

Are you E-M183?

I'm sure there is a sample, maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?

No im E-L19
this my subclade

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A30032/
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 6:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

I'm sure there is a sample, maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?

No im E-L19
this my subclade

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A30032/

Oh Yes you are the brother of E-M81.

But I still don’t understand what you’re saying. Who deleted what? My sample is here. I have my own clade. I didn’t pay anything. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y325713/
farjanomar 3/30/2023 6:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What are the clans under each of these clades. I’m trying to find out how Somali Darood clans are structured.

E-Y163928*

E-Y163949

E-Y163949*

E-FTC83339

E-Y362403

E-Y272428

E-FT24258

E-FT24258*

E-FT81055

E-FT18668

E-FT18668*

E-FT21265

E-FT21265*

E-FT22485

Just like ftdna projects, you can now view all the info with Clan Names on your yfull account. All yfull members are there with full info.

Have you tried to sign in and look up?
capsian 3/30/2023 6:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Oh Yes you are the brother of E-M81.

But I still don’t understand what you’re saying. Who deleted what? My sample is here. I have my own clade. I didn’t pay anything. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y325713/

I mean other sample (Unknown) , not about your sample
Saeed 3/30/2023 6:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

I'm sure there is a sample, maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

But I still don’t understand what you’re saying. Who deleted what? My sample is here. I have my own clade. I didn’t pay anything. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y325713/

There was another Murusade result on there before and yes YFull deleted it because he didn't pay the fee, that's why Bulletproofpride has this new subclade even though the other guy is no longer on there.
farjanomar 3/30/2023 7:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

I'm sure there is a sample, maybe it's a private sample ? or maybe YFULL Delete his sample in the Tree ?

No im E-L19
this my subclade

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-A30032/

Yes, yfull still has the guy's file so they matched him with the sample of Bulletproof.
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 7:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Omaar

You can try to do the age estimation of E-Y325713 by following these instructions.

[Bad Link]

Really complicated. Don’t fully understand what to do. I tried clicking on age estimation on the top left. It shows for my mtdna but not Y dna. Maybe I have to wait a little longer.
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 7:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Just like ftdna projects, you can now view all the info with Clan Names on your yfull account. All yfull members are there with full info.

Have you tried to sign in and look up?

Yes I signed in and started navigating it last night. I think I have to wait a bit longer or maybe pay and upgrade to get more access to these stuff.
drobbah 3/30/2023 8:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has two different files that you can load, a big one BAM and a smaller one VCF one is free. BAM is $100.

I meant the distance btw Y163949 and me- I am 30 plus generation from Darood. How can i have the same 900 TMCRA.

I use clan genealogy and the range given by yfull, the tmrca is just an average of the range.As Habar Awal (my clan) has been proven by deep-testing.The main two dominant clans (Sa'ad Musa & Isa Musa) split around 500-600 years ago based on genealogy but the tmrca given to us was 900 ybp yet the range given is 1400 -> 475 ybp which verifies our genealogical claims.Me and another fellow Sa'ad Musa who also belong to the same sub sub clan of Jibriil Abokor according to geneology should have a tmrca around 350-400 ybp but yfull gave us 600 ybp but again looking at the range given 1100 -> 275 ybp it again confirms our genealogical claims. When clans are confirmed (foundational lineages) by deep-testing it's best to use the tmrca range & compare it with oral genealogy

Show Spoiler
drobbah 3/30/2023 8:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes I signed in and started navigating it last night. I think I have to wait a bit longer or maybe pay and upgrade to get more access to these stuff.

Are you the new Somali L0a1d? It's crazy how all the Somalis are all under one clade except for me...mine seems to be an Ethiopian Highland L0a1d
Caaqila 3/30/2023 10:40:00 AM

My Foolculus 2nd nephew is on 23andme, I try ask him for his raw dna data.
s1abx 3/30/2023 1:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

My Foolculus 2nd nephew is on 23andme, I try ask him for his raw dna data.

Asc, you are the person that made the thread on the B-M60 Abgaal right? Do you mind listing his DNA makeup and also his sub-clan of Harti Abgaal or so? It is a West African huntergatherer haplogroup so that is confusing.
Caaqila 3/30/2023 2:38:00 PM

Wa alaikumsalaam warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh. Yes that was me, where do I find the list of his DNA makeu?
Garaacad 3/30/2023 2:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

My Foolculus 2nd nephew is on 23andme, I try ask him for his raw dna data.

What is his haplogroup? Is it E-V32 or T-L208? Try and get him to join this forum.
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 7:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Are you the new Somali L0a1d? It's crazy how all the Somalis are all under one clade except for me...mine seems to be an Ethiopian Highland L0a1d

Yes that’s me. Wait how are all the Somalis L mtdna under this? You mean all the L0a right? What does this clade mean. Is it ancient pastoral related or Somali hunter gatherer
drobbah 3/30/2023 7:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes that’s me. Wait how are all the Somalis L mtdna under this? You mean all the L0a right? What does this clade mean. Is it ancient pastoral related or Somali hunter gatherer

There are different L0a1 some brought from Sudan with the Cushites but our L0a1d seems to be an indigenous HG lineage.Seems that you and the other Somalis probably belong to a Lowland HG lineage as you and the other Somalis diverged from me and other L0a1d 15k years ago.My closest maternal match didn't upload on yfull, but he is an Oromo
s1abx 3/30/2023 8:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Wa alaikumsalaam warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh. Yes that was me, where do I find the list of his DNA makeu?

Sorry, I meant the autosomal makeup etc is he 100% Somali? I doubt that however if he has B-M60. If you can, can you ask him for his sub of Harti please?
Bulletproofpride 3/30/2023 9:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There are different L0a1 some brought from Sudan with the Cushites but our L0a1d seems to be an indigenous HG lineage.Seems that you and the other Somalis probably belong to a Lowland HG lineage as you and the other Somalis diverged from me and other L0a1d 15k years ago.My closest maternal match didn't upload on yfull, but he is an Oromo

The Mtdna TMRCA are really huge and complicated. They also happen to be scattered all over Africa. Tracing female ancestors is a nightmare. It’s weird that our ancestral father E-Y18629 is under 3000 years old but here you have a gap of 15k years between Somali brethren when looking at our female side
drobbah 3/31/2023 2:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Mtdna TMRCA are really huge and complicated. They also happen to be scattered all over Africa. Tracing female ancestors is a nightmare. It’s weird that our ancestral father E-Y18629 is under 3000 years old but here you have a gap of 15k years between Somali brethren when looking at our female side

You share a 7k year old maternal haplogroup with fellow Somalis which is impressive, my maternal lineage is probably of Oromo origin tbh.
farjanomar 3/31/2023 3:05:00 AM

@Garaacad.

Have you seen the Cisman M Sample E-Y18632*? He is Definitely an outlier. All MS are under E-BY8085 TMRCA 450 ybp.
Caaqila 3/31/2023 3:28:00 AM

Hes E-V32. I'll ask him
Bulletproofpride 3/31/2023 3:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Hes E-V32. I'll ask him

Please do, I want to compare myself to a forculus. Also if you know of any other Karanle be they Murusade or not please tell them to visit this website like garaacad said earlier.
Caaqila 3/31/2023 3:36:00 AM

My mtDNA is M1a5 which has south east asian origins,
Bulletproofpride 3/31/2023 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

My mtDNA is M1a5 which has south east asian origins,

It seems Cushitic in origin. https://www.yfull.com/mtree/M1a5/
Bulletproofpride 3/31/2023 3:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

You share a 7k year old maternal haplogroup with fellow Somalis which is impressive, my maternal lineage is probably of Oromo origin tbh.

There is one Somali i share with at 3k years ago and another at 7k and finally you at 15k. It just comes to show that mtdna is extremely difficult to track migration patterns.
Caaqila 3/31/2023 4:01:00 AM

Okay cool, the explanation on the 23andme website mentioned something about southeast asian.

Btw, what does it mean if someone has an E-V32 haplogroup and is from the branch E-M5021 and another E-M78? And they're meant to be from the same sib clan?
drobbah 3/31/2023 4:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

There is one Somali i share with at 3k years ago and another at 7k and finally you at 15k. It just comes to show that mtdna is extremely difficult to track migration patterns.

The generic 15k is just the actual haplogroup, There’s as clear SE African clade & a Somali clade.I think once a Central/North Ethiopian clade forms, I will belong to it Inshallah
capsian 3/31/2023 4:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Okay cool, the explanation on the 23andme website mentioned something about southeast asian.

Btw, what does it mean if someone has an E-V32 haplogroup and is from the branch E-M5021 and another E-M78? And they're meant to be from the same sib clan?

E-M5021 equiv to E-M35
Caaqila 3/31/2023 10:49:00 AM

Yes he is 100% Somali actually. He hasn't been active for a few days so he hasn't answered what he is after Harti Abgal.
Garaacad 3/31/2023 8:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Garaacad.

Have you seen the Cisman M Sample E-Y18632*? He is Definitely an outlier. All MS are under E-BY8085 TMRCA 450 ybp.

That subclade is probably from an older MJ subclan, IMO. The lower end of the TMCRA range is quite high at 700ypb. YFull will update E-TMCRAs for all of us within a couple of months, anyway.

FTDNA is now showing the E-BY8084 subclade on its website:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY8084/story

Am I right in assuming E-BY8084 = Reer Bicidyahan?
farjanomar 4/1/2023 3:03:00 AM

[QUOTE=Garaacad;923508]That subclade is probably from an older MJ subclan, IMO. The lower end of the TMCRA range is quite high at 700ypb. YFull will update E-TMCRAs for all of us within a couple of months, anyway.

FTDNA is now showing the E-BY8084 subclade on its website:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY8084/story

Am I right in assuming E-BY8084 = Reer Bicidyahan?[/QUOTE

NO. Reer Bicidyan samople at only Y37

I think there is a new guy, who is keeping his info private. I checked another site that says BY8084 exists.

30 FT18121

31 Y18637

32 BY8081

33 BY8084

34 BY8085
capsian 4/1/2023 4:49:00 AM

[QUOTE=farjanomar;923550]

Originally Posted by Garaacad

That subclade is probably from an older MJ subclan, IMO. The lower end of the TMCRA range is quite high at 700ypb. YFull will update E-TMCRAs for all of us within a couple of months, anyway.

FTDNA is now showing the E-BY8084 subclade on its website:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY8084/story

Am I right in assuming E-BY8084 = Reer Bicidyahan?[/QUOTE

NO. Reer Bicidyan samople at only Y37

I think there is a new guy, who is keeping his info private. I checked another site that says BY8084 exists.

30 FT18121

31 Y18637

32 BY8081

33 BY8084

34 BY8085

What is the background of the Libya sample is toubou?
Garaacad 4/1/2023 5:14:00 AM

[QUOTE=capsian;923559]

Originally Posted by farjanomar

What is the background of the Libya sample is toubou?

He isn’t a Toubou. I don’t know his tribal background, but he looks very MENA:

[Bad Link]

Views: 39

Size: 532.8 KB" winautomationvisibilitylandmark="true">2B8E828A-D264-4DB5-BE88-4781266A6A21.jpeg
farjanomar 4/1/2023 5:15:00 AM

@capsian.

I don't think so. He had his pic and son on Social Media and one guy who is also BY8085 posted on Somaliforum. He looked like average Libyan.
drobbah 4/1/2023 5:15:00 AM

He is a Sharif Arab from Sirte

Edit: Zliten,Libya east of Tripoli
capsian 4/1/2023 6:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@capsian.

I don't think so. He had his pic and son on Social Media and one guy who is also BY8085 posted on Somaliforum. He looked like average Libyan.

Oh thanks you i was think he is Toubou

but his TMRCA is close with people Horn Africa
Abceff 4/1/2023 6:09:00 AM

[QUOTE=Garaacad;923563]

Originally Posted by capsian

He isn’t a Toubou. I don’t know his tribal background but he looks very MENA:

[Bad Link]

Views: 39

i doubt that is the right person look at the top of the building

[Bad Link]

clearly in iran, his son in the other photo looks extremely kurdish or iranian
drobbah 4/1/2023 2:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

Oh thanks you i was think he is Toubou

but his TMRCA is close with people Horn Africa

We have people in the Horn who are E-M81 who claimed to Sharif but descend from medieval Sheikhs from Tunisia/Morocco.It seems some Somali scholars went North, there are documents about Somali scholars/Students of Knowledge in Egypt and even Syria, maybe a few ended up settling in the Maghreb region and claimed Quraishi origin.There’s also individuals from a Saudi clan from Najd that belongs to the Somali clade
Bulletproofpride 4/1/2023 7:56:00 PM

[QUOTE=farjanomar;923550]

Originally Posted by Garaacad

That subclade is probably from an older MJ subclan, IMO. The lower end of the TMCRA range is quite high at 700ypb. YFull will update E-TMCRAs for all of us within a couple of months, anyway.

FTDNA is now showing the E-BY8084 subclade on its website:

https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/E-BY8084/story

Am I right in assuming E-BY8084 = Reer Bicidyahan?[/QUOTE

NO. Reer Bicidyan samople at only Y37

I think there is a new guy, who is keeping his info private. I checked another site that says BY8084 exists.

30 FT18121

31 Y18637

32 BY8081

33 BY8084

34 BY8085

So E-Y18640* is now 8084 on ftdna?
farjanomar 4/2/2023 5:38:00 AM

[QUOTE=Bulletproofpride;923636]

Originally Posted by farjanomar

So E-Y18640* is now 8084 on ftdna?

We don't know yet, maybe they are the same. But right now its showing different.

Yfull has EY18640 sample and fdna has 8084 sample.
Bulletproofpride 4/3/2023 3:29:00 AM

Guys so who are these Arab people on the tree. Who is the By8100. He must be somali but what is his clan. Who is also this Libyan everyone talks about. Is he on FTDNA? Is he under the majerteen clade? Who is this other Arab on E-By8084?
capsian 4/3/2023 3:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

We have people in the Horn who are E-M81 who claimed to Sharif but descend from medieval Sheikhs from Tunisia/Morocco.It seems some Somali scholars went North, there are documents about Somali scholars/Students of Knowledge in Egypt and even Syria, maybe a few ended up settling in the Maghreb region and claimed Quraishi origin.There’s also individuals from a Saudi clan from Najd that belongs to the Somali clade

Saudi clan from Najd that belongs to the Somali clade

I have seen these people on Twitter saying they are pure Arabs and Somali people who belong to this subclade are Arabs
drobbah 4/3/2023 3:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Saudi clan from Najd that belongs to the Somali clade

I have seen these people on Twitter saying they are pure Arabs and Somali people who belong to this subclade are Arabs

They claim E-V32 is an Arabian clade which is hilariously wrong.The two Saudis I am speaking about are closer to the Somalis on this thread than me lol, that’s how deep they are in the Somali clade lol
capsian 4/3/2023 4:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

They claim E-V32 is an Arabian clade which is hilariously wrong.The two Saudis I am speaking about are closer to the Somalis on this thread than me lol, that’s how deep they are in the Somali clade lol

Yes you are right some of them claim Haplogroup E-V32 is a sublocade belonging to Akkadian

what is a subclade of this clan ?
drobbah 4/3/2023 4:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Yes you are right some of them claim Haplogroup E-V32 is a sublocade belonging to Akkadian

what is a subclade of this clan ?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8100/ both samples are from the same clan
capsian 4/3/2023 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8100/ both samples are from the same clan

Thanks you drobbah

What is the background sample YF013323 ?
drobbah 4/3/2023 5:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Thanks you drobbah

What is the background sample YF013323 ?

Same clan hence the very recent tmrca and they currently live in Najd but apparently their clan origin is actually from Yemen not that long ago
Araz 4/3/2023 12:17:00 PM

@Bulletproofpride, the Libyan guy is E-BY8085, which I am as well so an MJ Mahamoud Saleeban
Mcmoud72 4/3/2023 7:51:00 PM

kkkkk, "gangs" It reminded me that once upon a time in Xamar there were real gangs named Qatatow, Tabebo, Laameer.
s1abx 4/3/2023 8:20:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

kkkkk, "gangs" It reminded me that once upon a time in Xamar there were real gangs named Qatatow, Tabebo, Laameer.

Never heard of it, when was this? Isn’t Qatatow magac cideed from which some terrorise guy was from?
Garaacad 4/3/2023 10:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

kkkkk, "gangs" It reminded me that once upon a time in Xamar there were real gangs named Qatatow, Tabebo, Laameer.

Bit of a blunt question, but what is your qabiil? I think you’re Abgaal, no? They are the dominant clan of Banaadir.
Bulletproofpride 4/4/2023 5:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Araz

@Bulletproofpride, the Libyan guy is E-BY8085, which I am as well so an MJ Mahamoud Saleeban

Ah I see so the Libyan is a lost majerteen kkkk. And the two Saudis are on the BY8100 branch. Makes sense now. Thanks bro.
Mcmoud72 4/4/2023 5:54:00 AM

Brother I am a Sheekhaal Loobage, based upon every Loobage who tested so far on ancestry.com, 23andme shows that we Loobage are E-V32 and very very closely related to Mudulood Abgaal and Madarkicis before any other Somalis so we are descendants of Martiile Hiraab.
Garaacad 4/4/2023 7:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother I am a Sheekhaal Loobage, based upon every Loobage who tested so far on ancestry.com, 23andme shows that we Loobage are E-V32 and very very closely related to Mudulood Abgaal and Madarkicis before any other Somalis so we are descendants of Martiile Hiraab.

23andme is pretty much useless for clan research. For more detailed clan research, you want to purchase a DNA kit from Nebula.org. The deep version test on that website fully decodes your genome. Once the sequencing stage is completed, you get matched with other Somalis on a platform called YFull.

Scroll through this megathread to find my older posts on Nebula.

There is this subclade called E-FT77328 on YFull that is very common in South-Central Somalis. I think you may carry this downstream subclade of E-V32.
farjanomar 4/6/2023 5:12:00 AM

@Garaacad @s1abx New Cali Saleebaan sample from Oman has joined the Somali Project hopefully he gets big Y and join the Yfull CS sample. He is at Y111.
Garaacad 4/6/2023 6:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Garaacad @s1abx New Cali Saleebaan sample from Oman has joined the Somali Project hopefully he gets big Y and join the Yfull CS sample. He is at Y111.

Off-topic, but you should delete some of your older private messages. I can’t send you a private message anymore.
farjanomar 4/8/2023 6:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Off-topic, but you should delete some of your older private messages. I can’t send you a private message anymore.

I have deleted.
Mcmoud72 4/8/2023 9:24:00 AM

It was back in the 70s
s1abx 4/9/2023 6:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

It was back in the 70s

Lool I wasn’t even alive back then, makes sense.
s1abx 4/9/2023 6:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother I am a Sheekhaal Loobage, based upon every Loobage who tested so far on ancestry.com, 23andme shows that we Loobage are E-V32 and very very closely related to Mudulood Abgaal and Madarkicis before any other Somalis so we are descendants of Martiile Hiraab.

Are you planning on taking a Y-DNA test? I think the total cost is close to $400, however it will give you detailed information on where the Loobage stand.
Mcmoud72 4/10/2023 7:57:00 AM

Walaal: I am a Sheekhaal Loobage from Xamar; Ramadan Karim
Abdirahim 4/11/2023 1:27:00 PM

I am another Murusade not forculus but Sabti. E-V32 and L0a1 on 23andme.
s1abx 4/11/2023 5:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

I am another Murusade not forculus but Sabti. E-V32 and L0a1 on 23andme.

What is your sub of Sabti walaal?
Garaacad 4/12/2023 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

I am another Murusade not forculus but Sabti. E-V32 and L0a1 on 23andme.

Welcome to the forum. As you probably already know there are some reer Dhaaley > Murursade members of this forum with E-BY8081. Majeerteens also carry E-BY8081 but the TMCRA (Time to most common recent ancestor) between us is not live yet. Please consider taking a deep Y test from Nebula in order for us to understand how common E-BY8081 is within the Murursade clan.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/
Caaqila 4/12/2023 5:39:00 PM

Asalaamu alaikum, just a quick update on the Harti Abgal brother who got a BM112 haplogroup. He said he is Owbakar, Reer imaam
s1abx 4/12/2023 8:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Asalaamu alaikum, just a quick update on the Harti Abgal brother who got a BM112 haplogroup. He said he is Owbakar, Reer imaam

Wcs, Jazakallah. Very unexpected tbh, I would have expected it to be from a sub that lives next to Jareerweyn. I have already seen other E-V32 Harti Abgaals so this is most likely limited to a sub of Reer Imaam.
Bulletproofpride 4/12/2023 11:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

I am another Murusade not forculus but Sabti. E-V32 and L0a1 on 23andme.

MashaAllah another Sabti. I’m Sabti too. Abakar Sabti. Brother Garaacad explained everything I was going to tell you already.

Which branch Sabti are you? Please let me know brother. I hope you are abdalla sabti or ayaansame sabti.
Bulletproofpride 4/12/2023 11:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Asalaamu alaikum, just a quick update on the Harti Abgal brother who got a BM112 haplogroup. He said he is Owbakar, Reer imaam

Kkk that’s my mothers tribe. It seems the aw bakar lineage has assimilated a lot of people due to their prominence in south central Somalia the last 3 centuries. I remember seeing a Middle Eastern looking guy from the Aw bakar clan.
Bulletproofpride 4/12/2023 11:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Are you planning on taking a Y-DNA test? I think the total cost is close to $400, however it will give you detailed information on where the Loobage stand.

It’s £250. Don’t scare them off kkk.
Abdirahim 4/13/2023 12:06:00 AM

Lol actually didn't know there were dhaaley who already took it already. I am Israafiil abakar specifically dhaaley. Why are so many dhaleeys interstined in lol. ��. Is there a point of me taking the test and would they even send the kit to Qatar?
Bulletproofpride 4/13/2023 12:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

Lol actually didn't know there were dhaaley who already took it already. I am Israafiil abakar specifically dhaaley. Why are so many dhaleeys interstined in lol. ��. Is there a point of me taking the test and would they even send the kit to Qatar?

Kkk another dhaaley. I don’t think you need to take this test kkk. We have seen 3 Murusade and all of them are Dhaaley including me. Rest assured you are E-BY8081.
Garaacad 4/13/2023 12:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

Lol actually didn't know there were dhaaley who already took it already. I am Israafiil abakar specifically dhaaley. Why are so many dhaleeys interstined in lol. ��. Is there a point of me taking the test and would they even send the kit to Qatar?

Why don’t you get other Murursades on 23andme to join this forum.
Bulletproofpride 4/13/2023 2:30:00 AM

@Abdirahim please get some of the other Murusade to join this forum
s1abx 4/13/2023 4:16:00 AM

Not when you factor in the subscription
s1abx 4/13/2023 4:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

Lol actually didn't know there were dhaaley who already took it already. I am Israafiil abakar specifically dhaaley. Why are so many dhaleeys interstined in lol. ��. Is there a point of me taking the test and would they even send the kit to Qatar?

Dhaleeydu tiro badanaa mashallah. Are they the bulk of Israfil?
Bulletproofpride 4/13/2023 6:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Dhaleeydu tiro badanaa mashallah. Are they the bulk of Israfil?

Been thinking the same kkk. Mr Dhaaley is only 6 generations away from you and I just imagine.
Abdirahim 4/15/2023 12:09:00 AM

Wow that saved me a few bucks thanks bulletproofpride. Saw your message couldn't reply as I needed to comment 10 times on the forum first. So I am Farah Cigal not Adam Cigal. We meet at dhaaley, counting from my father Dhaleey is the 10th oday for me.

Also E-BY8081 can someone update me on which clans are this 1000 year old haplogroup lol.
Abdirahim 4/15/2023 12:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Why don’t you get other Murursades on 23andme to join this forum.

All my immediate family are a variety of Abakar.
Bulletproofpride 4/15/2023 3:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

Wow that saved me a few bucks thanks bulletproofpride. Saw your message couldn't reply as I needed to comment 10 times on the forum first. So I am Farah Cigal not Adam Cigal. We meet at dhaaley, counting from my father Dhaleey is the 10th oday for me.

Also E-BY8081 can someone update me on which clans are this 1000 year old haplogroup lol.

So far only majerteen and Murusade. But we need to test other Karanle tribes as well as Xaskul, Gugundhabe etc

There could be more tribes testing positive for this ancient branch.
Bulletproofpride 4/15/2023 3:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abdirahim

All my immediate family are a variety of Abakar.

Try and test some codweyne Abakar or saciid Abakar.
shabelle 4/15/2023 8:03:00 AM

New member 👋
Garaacad 4/15/2023 9:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

New member ��

What clan do you belong to? I can see you’re from Shabelle region.
shabelle 4/15/2023 10:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What clan do you belong to? I can see you’re from Shabelle region.

I belong to the Hawadle clan.
Saeed 4/15/2023 1:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I belong to the Hawadle clan.

You should do a full genome test, you'd be the first from your clan to do it, we don't really know what result a Hawadle would get on YFull.
shabelle 4/15/2023 3:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

You should do a full genome test, you'd be the first from your clan to do it, we don't really know what result a Hawadle would get on YFull.

What’s the steps of getting genome test and the cost?
Saeed 4/15/2023 6:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

What’s the steps of getting genome test and the cost?

Do a Nebula Genomics test: https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Scroll down and it's the "deep" whole genome test, the one on the left, right now they have a sale so it's 77% off and the cost is $149 (normal price is $649), if you're going to purchase it, where it says membership make sure to change it from "lifetime" to "yearly membership" so that when you receive your result and upload to YFull you can cancel it and not have to pay the membership.

If you do it, just let us know on here when you get your result and we'll help you upload to YFull.
shabelle 4/15/2023 7:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Do a Nebula Genomics test: https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Scroll down and it's the "deep" whole genome test, the one on the left, right now they have a sale so it's 77% off and the cost is $149 (normal price is $649), if you're going to purchase it, where it says membership make sure to change it from "lifetime" to "yearly membership" so that when you receive your result and upload to YFull you can cancel it and not have to pay the membership.

If you do it, just let us know on here when you get your result and we'll help you upload to YFull.

How long would the results take and upload them? Thanks
Saeed 4/15/2023 8:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

How long would the results take and upload them? Thanks

From them shipping it to you, you shipping it back and them analyzing your dna, it can take up to 12 weeks, though it could be earlier.

Uploading it to YFull is quick though, you'll have it uploaded within a day, they will do it for you.
s1abx 4/15/2023 9:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

How long would the results take and upload them? Thanks

149 is a really good price wlhi, I haven't seen it get below 249. It'd almost be the same price as a 23andme test.
s1abx 4/15/2023 9:37:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I belong to the Hawadle clan.

What is your sub out of curiosity?
shabelle 4/15/2023 10:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

From them shipping it to you, you shipping it back and them analyzing your dna, it can take up to 12 weeks, though it could be earlier.

Uploading it to YFull is quick though, you'll have it uploaded within a day, they will do it for you.

Thanks for clarifying, I will get it done in due time.
shabelle 4/15/2023 10:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

What is your sub out of curiosity?

I am cali madaxweyne (cise dige samatalis) and my mother cabdi yusuf (yusuf samatalis) are you from neighbouring clan?
s1abx 4/15/2023 10:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I am cali madaxweyne (cise dige samatalis) and my mother cabdi yusuf (yusuf samatalis) are you from neighbouring clan?

I am Abgaal, but not a neighbouring Abgaal. I do have Cali Madaxweyne relatives though.
shabelle 4/15/2023 10:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I am Abgaal, but not a neighbouring Abgaal. I do have Cali Madaxweyne relatives though.

Likewise I have Abgaal relatives, we are closely related clans. I would expect some matches from Abgaals.
s1abx 4/16/2023 12:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

Likewise I have Abgaal relatives, we are closely related clans. I would expect some matches from Abgaals.

Not closely related, but yes we are neighbouring clans.
Bulletproofpride 4/16/2023 6:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I belong to the Hawadle clan.

MashaAllah. Are you reer Samatalis? I told my xawaadle relative to join this forum. Could this be you?
Bulletproofpride 4/16/2023 6:51:00 AM

Xawaadle results will be so interesting.
s1abx 4/16/2023 9:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

MashaAllah. Are you reer Samatalis? I told my xawaadle relative to join this forum. Could this be you?

He said he is Ali Madaxweyne, so yes, he is Samatalis. They don’t identify with Samatalis but their respective sub-clans.
shabelle 4/16/2023 5:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

MashaAllah. Are you reer Samatalis? I told my xawaadle relative to join this forum. Could this be you?

No bro im just lurker on Reddit and Somali forums i don’t have account though. I just have side interest in anthropology and history.
shabelle 4/16/2023 5:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

He said he is Ali Madaxweyne, so yes, he is Samatalis. They don’t identify with Samatalis but their respective sub-clans.

That’s correct
shabelle 4/16/2023 5:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

MashaAllah. Are you reer Samatalis? I told my xawaadle relative to join this forum. Could this be you?

Didn’t one Hawadle got tested and plotted in the same group as other hawiyes? Abgaal and Habar Gidir? Correct me if I’m wrong
EV32 4/16/2023 6:24:00 PM

ASC my brothers, new user here! I had questions about doing the bigY700.

which country is nebula based in I want to see if the testing will be done in Europe or the US.
Bulletproofpride 4/16/2023 8:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

Didn’t one Hawadle got tested and plotted in the same group as other hawiyes? Abgaal and Habar Gidir? Correct me if I’m wrong

I’m not sure brother. I don’t think we have seen a big Y results of a Xawaadle yet. Please make sure you do yours. It would be great. Gives us a better understanding.
Bulletproofpride 4/16/2023 8:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by EV32

ASC my brothers, new user here! I had questions about doing the bigY700.

which country is nebula based in I want to see if the testing will be done in Europe or the US.

It’s American but it ships to Europe too. I live in the UK and just had my results with nebula. What clan are you if I may ask brother. I’m so excited seeing all these different Somalis join the forum.

Make sure you guys go for Nebula whole genome sequencing with the quarterly subscription. You will then cancel the subscription as soon as you get your results.
Saeed 4/16/2023 9:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by shabelle

Didn’t one Hawadle got tested and plotted in the same group as other hawiyes? Abgaal and Habar Gidir? Correct me if I’m wrong

I think there is a Hawadle on FTDNA but they haven't done full genome test, just the basic one, so the grouping is kind of a guess I think. If you do it, you'd be the first.
Saeed 4/16/2023 9:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by EV32

ASC my brothers, new user here! I had questions about doing the bigY700.

which country is nebula based in I want to see if the testing will be done in Europe or the US.

Nebula ships to most of the world, here's a map:

[Bad Link]

The company is based in the United States.
s1abx 4/17/2023 3:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

That’s correct

Are you by any chance Darood Ali? It would be interesting to see what is behind the name.
shabelle 4/17/2023 5:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Are you by any chance Darood Ali? It would be interesting to see what is behind the name.

I am Maxamed Cali

The name comes from his mother being darod woman. We also have Habar Duduble and Habar Martile in Adan Warsame sub clans.
Bulletproofpride 4/17/2023 5:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I am Maxamed Cali

The name comes from his mother being darod woman. We also have Habar Duduble and Habar Martile in Adan Warsame sub clans.

When are you going to order your nebula kit my brother.
shabelle 4/17/2023 6:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When are you going to order your nebula kit my brother.

Check DM
Garaacad 4/18/2023 7:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by shabelle

I am Maxamed Cali

The name comes from his mother being darod woman. We also have Habar Duduble and Habar Martile in Adan Warsame sub clans.

Just out of curiosity, how old is the Daarood Cali subclan?

Originally Posted by shabelle

How long would the results take and upload them? Thanks

While waiting for your Nebula results, you can test for Y18637 and an SNP of E-BY192465 (BY192797) on YSEQ. Both SNPs have a high confidence rating on YFull, so they are not false positives. Testing for two SNPs costs $36, with a two-week turnaround time.

Link to website: [Bad Link]

There are three Somalis with E-BY192465 on YFull. They belong to the Raxanweyn, Abgaal, and Cayr clans.
EV32 4/18/2023 6:03:00 PM

Oh ok thanks. Am

Ogaadeen.
EV32 4/18/2023 6:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s American but it ships to Europe too. I live in the UK and just had my results with nebula. What clan are you if I may ask brother. I’m so excited seeing all these different Somalis join the forum.

Make sure you guys go for Nebula whole genome sequencing with the quarterly subscription. You will then cancel the subscription as soon as you get your results.

Can I do this too $36 Sounds so cheap I can do for me and some others or do I have to do the $149?
Caaqila 4/18/2023 7:11:00 PM

Are you dhaaleey too?? ♥️😊 We might be related
Garaacad 4/18/2023 9:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by EV32

Can I do this too $36 Sounds so cheap I can do for me and some others, or do I have to do the $149?

Register and under categories on the left-hand side, click on SNPs, then in the 'search criteria' box, type in Y18637 and BY203771. SNP tests are used to debunk or uphold theories. As the Ogaden clan doesn't have a subclade/SNP exclusive to them, you should do Nebula along with these SNP tests.

Link to website: https://www.yseq.net/advanced_search.php
Bulletproofpride 4/19/2023 12:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Caaqila

Are you dhaaleey too?? ♥️�� We might be related

He is Farax cigaal
Mujahid Nur Marehan 4/19/2023 12:52:00 PM

We have a new Majeerteen Maxamed Talareer (Wadalmuge) sample on FTD does his STR'S match E-163949 or E-by8081?

This majerteen sub clan has a very similar name to a Lelkase sub clan called Malismuge.
farjanomar 4/19/2023 3:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

We have a new Majeerteen Maxamed Talareer (Wadalmuge) sample on FTD does his STR'S match E-163949 or E-by8081?

This majerteen sub clan has a very similar name to a Lelkase sub clan called Malismuge.

No, he is negative for allele DYS388-13. His STRs are close to the other E-BY8081 MJs.

Wadalmuge is brother to siwaaqroon. Maxamed Talareer and Hussen Talareer.
Mcmoud72 4/19/2023 6:45:00 PM

Hi Brothers , I am looking forward to recieve Nebula Genomics Kit : below is the message i got today

Hi, Your Nebula Genomics kit has shipped! NOTE: Due to shipping delays and restrictions related to covid-19, there has been a delay on some domestic and international orders. Please expected delayed international shipments. Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. Once you receive your kit, make sure to register it at www.nebula.org/register. Additional instructions can be found here as well.

Your kit ID(s) :
Mujahid Nur Marehan 4/19/2023 7:09:00 PM

@Mcmoud72 what's your sub clan?, if you don't mind...
Mcmoud72 4/19/2023 7:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Mcmoud72 what's your sub clan?, if you don't mind...

Asc Brother: I am a Sheekhaal Loobage;
Bulletproofpride 4/19/2023 7:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Asc Brother: I am a Sheekhaal Loobage;

Nice work brother. I expect you will get that Hiiraab lineage. Loobaage are the sheekhaal from Galmudug right?
s1abx 4/19/2023 7:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Hi Brothers , I am looking forward to recieve Nebula Genomics Kit : below is the message i got today

Hi, Your Nebula Genomics kit has shipped! NOTE: Due to shipping delays and restrictions related to covid-19, there has been a delay on some domestic and international orders. Please expected delayed international shipments. Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. Once you receive your kit, make sure to register it at www.nebula.org/register. Additional instructions can be found here as well.

Your kit ID(s) :

Masha Allah brother, very exciting. It would be interesting to see where the Loobage stand. Are you that Sheikhaal guy I encountered on another website saying he was E-V32?
Bulletproofpride 4/19/2023 10:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Masha Allah brother, very exciting. It would be interesting to see where the Loobage stand. Are you that Sheikhaal guy I encountered on another website saying he was E-V32?

I think he is the sheekhaal brother I have on twitter and on sspot.
s1abx 4/20/2023 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I think he is the sheekhaal brother I have on twitter and on sspot.

I saw him on Reddit. They type similar too.
Saeed 4/20/2023 12:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I saw him on Reddit. They type similar too.

They have the female sign ♀️ where it says "sex:" so it's not a guy unless they did that as a mistake.

@Mcmoud72 If you're a girl, make sure a male member of your family from your fathers side (brother/father) does the Nebula test so you can get your paternal result since only men get those, their result will be the same for you.
Garaacad 4/20/2023 1:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

No, he is negative for allele DYS388-13. His STRs are close to the other E-BY8081 MJs.

Wadalmuge is brother to siwaaqroon. Maxamed Talareer and Hussen Talareer.

His first STR value was 14, whereas everyone else was 13. He must have an early E-BY8081 subclade, or he is positive for another E-Y18637 subclade.
farjanomar 4/20/2023 2:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

His first STR value was 14, whereas everyone else was 13. He must have an early E-BY8081 subclade, or he is positive for another E-Y18637 subclade.

Yeah, i saw that. Its anomaly. It happens sometimes. It happened to a Leelkase sample before. His second STR value was 21 instead of 24 like the rest. They even gave him HAP E-M2. But after a big Y he got E-Y163949.
Bulletproofpride 4/20/2023 3:48:00 AM

So another MJ tested positive for the same E-Y18632? It seems MJ are willing to find out their past more than other clans. I tried to persuade some of my clansmen but they don’t budge. And the ones that do take it are all from the same sub sub clan. I just have to be more patient.
s1abx 4/20/2023 7:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So another MJ tested positive for the same E-Y18632? It seems MJ are willing to find out their past more than other clans. I tried to persuade some of my clansmen but they don’t budge. And the ones that do take it are all from the same sub sub clan. I just have to be more patient.

Same here. I think it’s a similar story with the Arabs. Most of the MJ farax’s who tested are properly rich truck drivers like the oil rich Arabs.
Mcmoud72 4/20/2023 8:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Nice work brother. I expect you will get that Hiiraab lineage. Loobaage are the sheekhaal from Galmudug right?

Insha Allah brother i am looking forward the Hiraab lineage to be confirmed. On other hand 40 % of the Loobage live in Galmudug, the remaing are in Jubba land.
Mcmoud72 4/20/2023 8:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Masha Allah brother, very exciting. It would be interesting to see where the Loobage stand. Are you that Sheikhaal guy I encountered on another website saying he was E-V32?

Yes brother , it is me, nice to see you here. Insha Allah i will keep update my test .
Mcmoud72 4/20/2023 8:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

They have the female sign ♀️ where it says "sex:" so it's not a guy unless they did that as a mistake.

@Mcmoud72 If you're a girl, make sure a male member of your family from your fathers side (brother/father) does the Nebula test so you can get your paternal result since only men get those, their result will be the same for you.

Saaxib Saeed i am an old dude kkkkkkkk
s1abx 4/20/2023 8:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Yes brother , it is me, nice to see you here. Insha Allah i will keep update my test .

If I recall correctly you were saying you did a 23andme test and was 100% Somali E-V32 and you encountered many other Loobage in a similar position? I’ve seen 2 E-M81 Aw Qudubs.
Saeed 4/20/2023 10:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Saaxib Saeed i am an old dude kkkkkkkk

Lol my bad, that sign confused me, your result will be interesting
Araz 4/21/2023 1:18:00 PM

It will be interesting to see these results.
Araz 4/21/2023 1:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Same here. I think it’s a similar story with the Arabs. Most of the MJ farax’s who tested are properly rich truck drivers like the oil rich Arabs.

@s1abx lol I don't know about other MJs, but I can't drive a truck to save my life and did the test because I find this stuff fascinating, but it is expensive! Eid Mubarak brother.
Saeed 4/21/2023 2:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Same here. I think it’s a similar story with the Arabs. Most of the MJ farax’s who tested are properly rich truck drivers like the oil rich Arabs.

It's just that one Libaax Joore guy who spent a lot testing his clan, think he said he spent more than $3000.
Mcmoud72 4/21/2023 7:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Lol my bad, that sign confused me, your result will be interesting

thanks Saaxib, i tried to change the female sign but something went wrong, do have any idea how to change into the male sign?
Mcmoud72 4/21/2023 7:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

If I recall correctly you were saying you did a 23andme test and was 100% Somali E-V32 and you encountered many other Loobage in a similar position? I’ve seen 2 E-M81 Aw Qudubs.

Yes brother, i remember it very well , almost all Loobage tested( around 30) so far are E-v32 , as far as Aw Qudub are concerned I’ve seen the results of the 2 with E-M81 and one with E-v32. I am now trying to convince several Aw Qudub friends to taste.
Saeed 4/21/2023 7:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

thanks Saaxib, i tried to change the female sign but something went wrong, do have any idea how to change into the male sign?

I looked, I can't find how to change it, it's no big deal but if you really want you can ask a moderator.
Mcmoud72 4/22/2023 5:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I looked, I can't find how to change it, it's no big deal but if you really want you can ask a moderator.

Thanks brother.
Farroukh 4/23/2023 2:25:00 AM

What can you say about Barkhad Abdi's haplogroup?
Saeed 4/23/2023 2:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

What can you say about Barkhad Abdi's haplogroup?

Probably E-V32 > E-BY8081
Bulletproofpride 4/23/2023 7:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Probably E-V32 > E-BY8081

Kkkk this funny. He MJ?
Saeed 4/23/2023 7:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Kkkk this funny. He MJ?

Apparently so, that's what the people on Sspot said anyway.
Bulletproofpride 4/23/2023 8:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

What can you say about Barkhad Abdi's haplogroup?

Lol this got me laughing hard
Bulletproofpride 4/23/2023 8:09:00 AM

I found out a Gidir karanle got T on 23andme. I then went to encourage my Gidir friend to take it because Karanle be getting all sort of lineages from J1 to T to E. Apparently he told me his cousin did DNA test and got E-V32 and that he himself will do one to check what he gets. I encouraged him to do Nebula and I told him to let hos cousin join anthrogenica.

It could be that this is the common denominator among us all. Hopefully he takes it soon. It’s good to know that the E-V32 strain was found in his family among one of his cousins
Farroukh 4/23/2023 10:12:00 AM

I see that Somalian people have deep tribal/clan structure. In some cases also we have YDNA results of men from different branches which allows to predict the same for other paternally related persons. (Reading this over 160 pages topic is like reading interesting novel about Somalian YDNA).

Probably, Barkhad himself or his paternally related relatives tested their YDNA. That is why I asked.
Farroukh 4/23/2023 11:18:00 AM

Probably E-V32 > E-BY8081

Saed, can you explain it more detaily? Does he belong to Majeerteen clan?
Saeed 4/23/2023 11:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Farroukh

Saed, can you explain it more detaily? Does he belong to Majeerteen clan?

That's what I've read, yes, and that is the subclade the majority of that clan get.
Bulletproofpride 4/24/2023 4:59:00 AM

Guys someone asked

“Do you know what specific clan the person from Baay belongs to on YFull? He’s basal to the Hiraab guys that are downstream of him and there’s more than 1500yr gap between them in terms of tmrca.

Im Reewin btw so I’m interested in this persons result”

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/
Bulletproofpride 4/24/2023 5:00:00 AM

Please let me know so I can tell him/her
Garaacad 4/24/2023 5:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys someone asked

“Do you know what specific clan the person from Baay belongs to on YFull? He’s basal to the Hiraab guys that are downstream of him and there’s more than 1500yr gap between them in terms of tmrca.

Im Reewin btw so I’m interested in this persons result”

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY192465/

His clan is unknown, but he is most likely a Raxanweyn based on the TMCRA range.
Bulletproofpride 4/24/2023 5:22:00 AM

Thanks garaacad. I was asked this question by reerwin. Didn’t one of them get rare y dna T
Garaacad 4/24/2023 5:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thanks garaacad. I was asked this question by reerwin. Didn’t one of them get rare y dna T

Yh, an Cadde Mirifle Maxamad Reewin from FTDNA scored a Cushitic version of T.
Saeed 4/24/2023 5:43:00 AM

Why would Hiraab match Raxanweyn though, what if the Bay guy is Hawiye.

Idk why some people are so secretive about their clan, I messaged the guy a couple of months ago but he never replied.
Garaacad 4/24/2023 6:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Why would Hiraab match Raxanweyn though, what if the Bay guy is Hawiye.

Idk why some people are so secretive about their clan, I messaged the guy a couple of months ago but he never replied.

He is unlikely to be Hawiye. The TMCRA of E-BY192465 is much older than the TMCRA of T-BY181210. And as Dir and Hawiye were contemporaries, these clashing TMCRA dates make no sense.
Bulletproofpride 4/24/2023 6:30:00 AM

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z482*/

Who is this guy I was asked? Is he bah Geri?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 4/24/2023 7:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z482*/

Who is this guy I was asked? Is he bah Geri?

I have no idea, but I ramember on somali spot a very close relative of sarif sakeen, who was the former president of South West state did 23andme and he was j2, I can't ramember which subclade of j2 he was. But anyhow this j2 Somali sample is removed from Arabia and is very closely related to Anatolian and European samples. I think this Somali sample decend fromItalian soldiers who colonised somalia, not long ago. Basically his closest relatives in yfull are Italians.
Bulletproofpride 4/24/2023 7:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I have no idea, but I ramember on somali spot a very close relative of sarif sakeen, who was the former president of South West state did 23andme and he was j, I can't ramember which subclade of j2 he was. But anyhow this j2 Somali sample is removed from Arabia and is very closely related to Anatolian and European samples.

Yeh he looks to be of Italian descent
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 5:46:00 AM

This libaax joore guy who tested so many of his clansmen told me that TMRCA doesn’t change. He told me the TMRCA between MJ and I will stay 1350. Is this true?
Garaacad 4/26/2023 6:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This libaax joore guy who tested so many of his clansmen told me that TMRCA doesn’t change. He told me the TMRCA between MJ and I will stay 1350. Is this true?

No, the TMCRA can go as low as 925 years before present. Occam's razor: The connection between our clans comes from the 11th century. Hawiye lived in Ras Xaafuun around 1154 AD or slightly earlier, according to an Arab scholar called Al-Idiris.

Several YFull results from older subclans in Murusade will solidify or debunk this theory. I am unsure if other Hawiyes have E-BY8081, but testing other subclans will be worth it, IMO.
drobbah 4/26/2023 6:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I have no idea, but I ramember on somali spot a very close relative of sarif sakeen, who was the former president of South West state did 23andme and he was j2, I can't ramember which subclade of j2 he was. But anyhow this j2 Somali sample is removed from Arabia and is very closely related to Anatolian and European samples. I think this Somali sample decend fromItalian soldiers who colonised somalia, not long ago. Basically his closest relatives in yfull are Italians.

There was an Ashraaf on this site that belonged to a Levantine J2 subclade, there's also a MJ Darod J2 I've seen from Ethiopia who was J2.Probably came in the medieval period just like other exotic haplogroups with foreign Islamic Sheikhs
Garaacad 4/26/2023 7:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This libaax joore guy who tested so many of his clansmen told me that TMRCA doesn’t change. He told me the TMRCA between MJ and I will stay 1350. Is this true?

Your sample hasn’t finished processing, so our TMCRA won’t change for now. But several weeks into May, E-BY8081’s TMCRA should change to account for your new subclade.

On the info page of E-BY8081, click on samples, and you should see your sample status. Then hover over the red icon with your mouse to see a date.

So, in your case, you will receive a TMCRA for your subclade on the 27th of June.
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 8:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

No, the TMCRA can go as low as 925 years before present. Occam's razor: The connection between our clans comes from the 11th century. Hawiye lived in Ras Xaafuun around 1154 AD or slightly earlier, according to an Arab scholar called Al-Idiris.

Several YFull results from older subclans in Murusade will solidify or debunk this theory. I am unsure if other Hawiyes have E-BY8081, but testing other subclans will be worth it, IMO.

I find it weird that the TMRCA for MJ haven’t changed apparently even after testing so many different sub clans. What do you think is going on?

I believe our TMRCA is 1350 years? 2023-1350=673 this is the 7th century if my calculations are correct. The Gurgaarte and some Karanle branches migrated southwards into Mudug from Nugaal (solid evidence is Abgaal burial in waqooye as well as Karanle records mentioning Nugaal exodus). Other Hawiye branches like some Karanle sub branches etc went back to their ancestral lands in the Ethiopian highlands as the heat was unbearable in Nugaal for the women and children. This migration to Nugaal happend after the collapse of the Karanle kingdom according to what I have read and understood. However I do not know with certainty which kingdom is referred to as the Karanle kingdom when they say Boqortooyida Karanle. Is it Adal or Hobat that preceded it? Since you mentioned al idrisi 12th century mentioning Hawiye all the way in Ras Xasfuun I would assume it’s during the collapse of Hobat that some of Hawiye migrated towards Nugaal. However I can’t remember reading Hobat ever collapsing. Hobat was a confederate state allied with Ifat and it’s modern day Babile Erer Yarey, it is where the old Hawiye use to crown their Garads that later produced the line of Ahmed Gurey and other Hawiye lineages. The state would evolve into Adal shortly afterwards. Also it wouldn’t make sense for one group (MJ) to associate with Darood and another with Hawiye (Murusade) if they knew they were related. This can only mean one thing and that’s that both the proto Amale and proto Karanle group already went their separate ways before the culture of abtirsi started. This theory will be correct if other Karanle branches test positive for this E-BY8081.

Another usefull information is the oldest documented abtirsi we have among any Somali person alive. The Amhara GOAT mekuria dedicated a 1k page book on the identity of the imam and the Melassay. With the help of the great Harari scholar Ahmed Sami who published the book “Fatah medinat Harar” for several European institutions in the 20th century has recorded 8 forefathers from Gurey to Hawiye. Gurey lived in the 16th century so you do the math.

[Bad Link]

Makuria here says in the first line hawiye multiplied the number of branches i.e skips names, so its likely axmed gureys abtirsi skips names and those 8 names of his lineage tree are his immediate ancestors and then the author just put karanle at the top of those names to signify his origin. In other words the abtirsi could be much longer to Hawiye thus aligning with the Al idrisi of having seen Hawiye near Ras Xafuun to Merca.

[Bad Link]

With all this information available and taking into consideration the other clans of Somaliweyne and when they roughly started their abtirsi we can estimate Hawiye to have been alive somewhere between the 7-9 century AD. The exact area where Hawiye and Karanle are buried is going through archaeological research. They are discovering 8-9th century masjids in the same area.

One more thing is that, medieval towns with the names “Hawiye” are dotted all over the region. I have posted some of them before I think but look at the Erer Kabele/District of Harar below. En entire Kebele named Irir Hawiye.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 8:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Your sample hasn’t finished processing, so our TMCRA won’t change for now. But several weeks into May, E-BY8081’s TMCRA should change to account for your new subclade.

On the info page of E-BY8081, click on samples, and you should see your sample status. Then hover over the red icon with your mouse to see a date.

So, in your case, you will receive a TMCRA for your subclade on the 27th of June.

Interesting thanks. I can’t hover as I’m on my mobile. I assume you checked it for me and it’s the 27th June?
Jamson22 4/26/2023 12:47:00 PM

Where do you find the quarterly subscription for Nebula Deep? I see the lifetime $275 and the annual $149 ($12.49/mo) options.
Saeed 4/26/2023 3:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Where do you find the quarterly subscription for Nebula Deep? I see the lifetime $275 and the annual $149 ($12.49/mo) options.

I think annual is the cheapest option, I don't see a quarterly one either. Go with annual and then cancel the subscription before the year ends.
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 6:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Where do you find the quarterly subscription for Nebula Deep? I see the lifetime $275 and the annual $149 ($12.49/mo) options.

It seems they have changed their options. I have bombarded them with emails and I believe they got sick and tired of this lol. They only have 2 options now lol.
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 6:28:00 PM

I have noticed heavy traffic towards this thread lately since I advertised my results on several social media platforms. Google algorithm is also picking up on the key words and sending them this way. I hope more Hawiye join.
Jamson22 4/26/2023 10:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It seems they have changed their options. I have bombarded them with emails and I believe they got sick and tired of this lol. They only have 2 options now lol.

I e-mailed them as well. They said the quarterly option is only available when kits are at full price, but due to the promotion only lifetime and annual options are available.
Garaacad 4/26/2023 11:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I find it weird that the TMRCA for MJ haven’t changed apparently even after testing so many different sub clans. What do you think is going on?

I believe our TMRCA is 1350 years? 2023-1350=673 this is the 7th century if my calculations are correct. The Gurgaarte and some Karanle branches migrated southwards into Mudug from Nugaal (solid evidence is Abgaal burial in waqooye as well as Karanle records mentioning Nugaal exodus). Other Hawiye branches like some Karanle sub branches etc went back to their ancestral lands in the Ethiopian highlands as the heat was unbearable in Nugaal for the women and children. This migration to Nugaal happend after the collapse of the Karanle kingdom according to what I have read and understood. However I do not know with certainty which kingdom is referred to as the Karanle kingdom when they say Boqortooyida Karanle. Is it Adal or Hobat that preceded it? Since you mentioned al idrisi 12th century mentioning Hawiye all the way in Ras Xasfuun I would assume it’s during the collapse of Hobat that some of Hawiye migrated towards Nugaal. However I can’t remember reading Hobat ever collapsing. Hobat was a confederate state allied with Ifat and it’s modern day Babile Erer Yarey, it is where the old Hawiye use to crown their Garads that later produced the line of Ahmed Gurey and other Hawiye lineages. The state would evolve into Adal shortly afterwards. Also it wouldn’t make sense for one group (MJ) to associate with Darood and another with Hawiye (Murusade) if they knew they were related. This can only mean one thing and that’s that both the proto Amale and proto Karanle group already went their separate ways before the culture of abtirsi started. This theory will be correct if other Karanle branches test positive for this E-BY8081.

Another usefull information is the oldest documented abtirsi we have among any Somali person alive. The Amhara GOAT mekuria dedicated a 1k page book on the identity of the imam and the Melassay. With the help of the great Harari scholar Ahmed Sami who published the book “Fatah medinat Harar” for several European institutions in the 20th century has recorded 8 forefathers from Gurey to Hawiye. Gurey lived in the 16th century so you do the math.

[Bad Link]

Makuria here says in the first line hawiye multiplied the number of branches i.e skips names, so its likely axmed gureys abtirsi skips names and those 8 names of his lineage tree are his immediate ancestors and then the author just put karanle at the top of those names to signify his origin. In other words the abtirsi could be much longer to Hawiye thus aligning with the Al idrisi of having seen Hawiye near Ras Xafuun to Merca.

[Bad Link]

With all this information available and taking into consideration the other clans of Somaliweyne and when they roughly started their abtirsi we can estimate Hawiye to have been alive somewhere between the 7-9 century AD. The exact area where Hawiye and Karanle are buried is going through archaeological research. They are discovering 8-9th century masjids in the same area.

One more thing is that, medieval towns with the names “Hawiye” are dotted all over the region. I have posted some of them before I think but look at the Erer Kabele/District of Harar below. En entire Kebele named Irir Hawiye.

[Bad Link]

TMCRA dates are not set in stone. And if current genetic trends are anything to go by, Daarood himself was only 31 years old in 1154 AD. I think the E-Y163949 group originated in West Sanaag.
Garaacad 4/26/2023 11:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

I e-mailed them as well. They said the quarterly option is only available when kits are at full price, but due to the promotion only lifetime and annual options are available.

What's your qabiil? We can make an educated guess about your Nebula results based on it.
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 11:41:00 PM

Hey what happens if I pay Yfull the full price? Will I be assigned a clade? TMRCA? I want to pay today.
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 11:45:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

TMCRA dates are not set in stone. And if current genetic trends are anything to go by, Daarood himself was only 31 years old in 1154 AD. I think the E-Y163949 group originated in West Sanaag.

Why didn’t the Mj TMRCA change? They hava so many different subclades on it? Which lineage is Darood that makes him only 31 years old in 1154?
Bulletproofpride 4/26/2023 11:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What's your qabiil? We can make an educated guess about your Nebula results based on it.

I hope he is Hawiye.
Garaacad 4/26/2023 11:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey, what happens if I pay Yfull the full price? Will I be assigned a clade? TMRCA? I want to pay today.

You will not be assigned a TMCRA straight away. TMCRAs are usually updated a month before the locked date on YFull.
Bulletproofpride 4/27/2023 12:14:00 AM

So I pay to keep my result on it? That’s it?
Garaacad 4/27/2023 12:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why didn’t the Mj TMRCA change? They hava so many different subclades on it? Which lineage is Darood that makes him only 31 years old in 1154?

Most under those subclades are Maxamuud Saleebaan and Ali Saleebaan MJs. The older subclans have only gone through Y-STR testing on FTDNA. If you check E-Y163949's TMCRA statistic, you will see the subclade is dated at 1123 AD. So, Daarood would be around 31 years of age in 1154 AD.
Bulletproofpride 4/27/2023 12:35:00 AM

I just paid my Yfull fee. What are some of the privileges I will get now?
Saeed 4/27/2023 1:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I just paid my Yfull fee. What are some of the privileges I will get now?

"Find matches based on Y chromosomal DNA, identification of all Y chromosomal SNPs and STRs and regular updates" is what Nebula says, basically they will finish analysing your sample now that you've paid and your result will be there forever.
Bulletproofpride 4/27/2023 2:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

"Find matches based on Y chromosomal DNA, identification of all Y chromosomal SNPs and STRs and regular updates" is what Nebula says, basically they will finish analysing your sample now that you've paid and your result will be there forever.

Recieved email saying

Your STR data (YF116712) analysis has been successfully completed and posted on the "STR results" page.

https://www.yfull.com/str/

Some markers require manual verification. After the verification is completed, a notification will be sent to your email address. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

YFull Team
Bulletproofpride 4/27/2023 2:54:00 AM

When will that star E-BY8081* leave? So I will get TMRCA next month?
Saeed 4/27/2023 3:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When will that star E-BY8081* leave? So I will get TMRCA next month?

Yh next month probably, since the last time the site updated was March.
Bulletproofpride 4/27/2023 3:56:00 AM

@saeed @farjonomar @garacad etc

What do you geuss the TMRCA to be that will be assigned to me? Any guesses?
Mcmoud72 4/27/2023 5:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I just paid my Yfull fee. What are some of the privileges I will get now?

Brother ; How much does it cost Yfull fee?
Saeed 4/27/2023 5:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother ; How much does it cost Yfull fee?

$45, but you don't need to pay it straight away, you have 3 months to do it after uploading to YFull.
farjanomar 4/28/2023 7:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@saeed @farjonomar @garacad etc

What do you geuss the TMRCA to be that will be assigned to me? Any guesses?

Its not easy, unless we just throw around numbers. It will also depend on whether you will form a sibling to MJ or upstream (ancestral) Subclade of E-BY8081.
Bulletproofpride 4/28/2023 8:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Its not easy, unless we just throw around numbers. It will also depend on whether you will form a sibling to MJ or upstream (ancestral) Subclade of E-BY8081.

Ancestral to E-BY8081? How? This clade in it self is 2600 years old. I’m confused.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 4/28/2023 8:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Ancestral to E-BY8081? How? This clade in it self is 2600 years old. I’m confused.

Ancestral to MJ, he probibally means if your upstream from the 1200 ypd MJ sample on Yfull. I think it would be interesting if you guys could convince the Sacad on Yfull to upgrade, I heard Sacad Habar Gedir lived in Burtinle Nugal, until very recently..
farjanomar 4/28/2023 8:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Ancestral to E-BY8081? How? This clade in it self is 2600 years old. I’m confused.

Meant sublade of E-By8081 for example: A- completely different branch or B- the same as Mjs, but upstream of E-Y18632.
SDPP 4/28/2023 9:15:00 AM

So you’re the new Mursade sample on Yfull? Pretty fascinating to see that some of the MJs may have closer links to Mursade than other Darood groups. Weird, but not unusual. There was another Mursade sample on yfull but he was run off by a admin on Somali spot after making him seem like he was a lost MJ smh. In reality it seems the MJs may have descended from Mursade. We won’t know for certain until the next update though.

[Bad Link]
EV32 4/28/2023 12:03:00 PM

Apart from MJ and the mareexan brother in this forum are there any other daroods in this forum who took the bigY700?
SDPP 4/28/2023 12:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by EV32

Apart from MJ and the mareexan brother in this forum are there any other daroods in this forum who took the bigY700?

There’s Leelkase, Dhulbahante, Ogaden, Warsangili from what I can recall who have done big Y. Not sure if they are on this forum though.
Saeed 4/28/2023 5:11:00 PM

What clan is the new E-FT420077 guy, Ogaden?
Garaacad 4/28/2023 8:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

What clan is the new E-FT420077 guy, Ogaden?

I think the new guy is Bowda-dheer from SSpot.
SDPP 4/28/2023 10:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I think the new guy is Bowda-dheer from SSpot.

Is he reer warfa? Or Ogaden? There is a reer warfa that he shares a sub clade with on yfull. The only other Ogaden we have on yfull is a Bah Gari sample who matched with Canbuur Guleed and are under the E-FTC83339.
Bulletproofpride 4/28/2023 11:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I think the new guy is Bowda-dheer from SSpot.

Kkkk nah I remember him saying he still hasn’t ordered it yet.
Bulletproofpride 4/28/2023 11:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

So you’re the new Mursade sample on Yfull? Pretty fascinating to see that some of the MJs may have closer links to Mursade than other Darood groups. Weird, but not unusual. There was another Mursade sample on yfull but he was run off by a admin on Somali spot after making him seem like he was a lost MJ smh. In reality it seems the MJs may have descended from Mursade. We won’t know for certain until the next update though.

[Bad Link]

Lol why did admin run him off? The MJ on that forum took the E-BY8081 hostage. Anyone that is positive for it is a lost MJ kkk. I argued with them hard and manage to convince countless of other Somalis that we are just siblings and neither one of us is descended from the other.

Are you that J1 person madhibaan that made that tree with the clans on it?
Bulletproofpride 4/28/2023 11:56:00 PM

Guys can you guys explain to me what subclades Ogaden are getting. Apparently reading the last few post on this thread Ogaden get different lineages. This guy Bowa dheer however argues that Ogaden is real clan and not a confederate.

Please tell me the Ogaden subs and their lineages on Yfull please.
Garaacad 4/28/2023 11:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Is he reer warfa? Or Ogaden? There is a reer warfa that he shares a sub clade with on yfull. The only other Ogaden we have on yfull is a Bah Gari sample who matched with Canbuur Guleed and are under the E-FTC83339.

He is Ogadeni, but I don't know his subclan.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Kkkk nah I remember him saying he still hasn’t ordered it yet.

Have you asked him? I'm pretty sure he's the new guy.

Look at this thread: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/l...estion.140724/
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 12:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

He is Ogadeni, but I don't know his subclan.

Have you asked him? I'm pretty sure he's the new guy.

Look at this thread: https://www.somalispot.com/threads/l...estion.140724/

I will ask him but I don’t think it’s him. Let me find out. I do know that leelkase ordered kit and a sheikhaal and xawaadle.
SDPP 4/29/2023 12:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Lol why did admin run him off? The MJ on that forum took the E-BY8081 hostage. Anyone that is positive for it is a lost MJ kkk. I argued with them hard and manage to convince countless of other Somalis that we are just siblings and neither one of us is descended from the other.

Are you that J1 person madhibaan that made that tree with the clans on it?

Agreed most Somalis are under the E-Z813 clade and are connected one way or another even if they aren’t as close as they thought. I think many folks are taken back when it doesn’t always align with the oral genealogy and they are closer to someone from another clan than someone from their own. They either want to lie and ignore the facts or they learn to move forward and see how these test can better connect the Somali people.

I am not Madhiban but Birmaal aka Tumaal ⚔️ but have assimilated into to the Hayaag aka the fighting class of which many Tumaal Ev-32 carriers are paternally linked to. The Birmaal carry EV32, T, J1 hablogroups thus far and have many subclans showing variances in Ydna. Madhibans thus far carry a downstream of E-18637 and J1. Anas aka Yiber are ev32 with their closest Ydna matches in the Darood groups. Hawle Qaasim is also E-V32 and connected to Darood groups. The artisans are out there lol and aren’t Jewish or some guys who flew out the sky with their skill sets but people that have been Somali and ruled and dominated before their fall. We are as Somali as can be and even in some cases showing to be the elder ancestors to the Somali people. Let’s see and watch as more test come in. Very interesting if I do say so myself.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 12:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Agreed most Somalis are under the E-Z813 clade and are connected one way or another even if they aren’t as close as they thought. I think many folks are taken back when it doesn’t always align with the oral genealogy and they are closer to someone from another clan than someone from their own. They either want to lie and ignore the facts or they learn to move forward and see how these test can better connect the Somali people.

I am not Madhiban but Birmaal aka Tumaal ⚔️ but have assimilated into to the Hayaag aka the fighting class of which many Tumaal Ev-32 carriers are paternally linked to. The Birmaal carry EV32, T, J1 hablogroups thus far and have many subclans showing variances in Ydna. Madhibans thus far carry a downstream of E-18637 and J1. Anas aka Yiber are ev32 with their closest Ydna matches in the Darood groups. Hawle Qaasim is also E-V32 and connected to Darood groups. The artisans are out there lol and aren’t Jewish or some guys who flew out the sky with their skill sets but people that have been Somali and ruled and dominated before their fall. We are as Somali as can be and even in some cases showing to be the elder ancestors to the Somali people. Let’s see and watch as more test come in. Very interesting if I do say so myself.

Amazing thanks for the info. I however find it confusing when you said Murusade is ancestral to MJ. How can one be ancestral to the other if both groups are from E-BY8081 eventually. Same with the tumaal, how are they ancestral to modern day Somali groups. I think you mean they branched of early from the rest. Just like haplogroup A branched off early from the rest of mankind and therefore not necessarily an ancestor to the rest of mankind
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 12:34:00 AM

It will be the greatest piece of oral history if I test positive for the same lineage as the Hawiye from Galbeed. That migration to Somalia and living with ilmo gorgarte will bare fruits. My job is to just get these guys from iimey and babili to take the test and see if their E-V32 is similar to mine.
SDPP 4/29/2023 2:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Amazing thanks for the info. I however find it confusing when you said Murusade is ancestral to MJ. How can one be ancestral to the other if both groups are from E-BY8081 eventually. Same with the tumaal, how are they ancestral to modern day Somali groups. I think you mean they branched off early from the rest. Just like haplogroup A branched off early from the rest of mankind and therefore not necessarily an ancestor to the rest of mankind

The time to most recent ancestor is estimated within a haplogroup and defined by the accumulation of mutations in STRs sequences of the Y-Chromosome of that haplogroup. The formed date of the Mursade clade thus far is 2600 ybp and tmrca is 1350 ybp with the younger branches. The oldest E-Y18632 Mj clade formed 1350 ybp and branched off E-BY8081 making it seem like one branched off the other. These are based off of current tmrcas. However, when you look at the live option it shows you have gotten a new clade under E-BY8081; E-Y325713. We won’t know for sure until the full update and this can change as more people take the test. They may be sibling clades and not necessarily elders.

As for the artisan groups E-18637 is Muse Dhiriye Dir and formed 2600 years ago as well but it seems like others branched off of him chart view. But like I said it can change as these samples find others that share the same mutations or clade. Same goes for one of the Birmaal Hayaag E-163928 and Hawle qasiim E-163949 who formed a few centuries before the rest of the Darood and share TMRCA of 900-1550 ybp. They may also need others that match to fully form an official clade.

We will keep learning as more take the test!
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 4:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I think the new guy is Bowda-dheer from SSpot.

Just confirmed he is not that guy. Bowadheere hasn’t even ordered the kit. He is also refuting all these ogadens on the tree. Apparently they are all SDPP sheegato.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 4:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

The time to most recent ancestor is estimated within a haplogroup and defined by the accumulation of mutations in STRs sequences of the Y-Chromosome of that haplogroup. The formed date of the Mursade clade thus far is 2600 ybp and tmrca is 1350 ybp with the younger branches. The oldest E-Y18632 Mj clade formed 1350 ybp and branched off E-BY8081 making it seem like one branched off the other. These are based off of current tmrcas. However, when you look at the live option it shows you have gotten a new clade under E-BY8081; E-Y325713. We won’t know for sure until the full update and this can change as more people take the test. They may be sibling clades and not necessarily elders.

As for the artisan groups E-18637 is Muse Dhiriye Dir and formed 2600 years ago as well but it seems like others branched off of him chart view. But like I said it can change as these samples find others that share the same mutations or clade. Same goes for one of the Birmaal Hayaag E-163928 and Hawle qasiim E-163949 who formed a few centuries before the rest of the Darood and share TMRCA of 900-1550 ybp. They may also need others that match alto fully form an official clade.

We will keep learning as more take the test!

Yes, so in other words some Somalis branch off early thus being more distantly related not ancestral.

I think MJ is 1200 years old not 1350.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18632/

MJ ancestor Amale separated from Murusade at the 1350 years ago mark. The question is why was this 1350 given at the 1st place. Was it because of the previous Murusade? If so then nothing will change in terms of TMRCA because we are close relatives.
SDPP 4/29/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Just confirmed he is not that guy. Bowadheere hasn’t even ordered the kit. He is also refuting all these ogadens on the tree. Apparently they are all SDPP sheegato.

Oh gosh hahahaha. How is someone not man enough to take the test talking about others being sheegato lol. Tell him to grow some and take one or is he afraid he’s gonna connect to a SDPP sheegato ? The mind games some people play on themselves is ridiculously out of this world.
SDPP 4/29/2023 5:12:00 AM

Yes precisely and I think the estimates given are based off the first Mursade.
drobbah 4/29/2023 5:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Agreed most Somalis are under the E-Z813 clade and are connected one way or another even if they aren’t as close as they thought. I think many folks are taken back when it doesn’t always align with the oral genealogy and they are closer to someone from another clan than someone from their own. They either want to lie and ignore the facts or they learn to move forward and see how these test can better connect the Somali people.

I am not Madhiban but Birmaal aka Tumaal ⚔️ but have assimilated into to the Hayaag aka the fighting class of which many Tumaal Ev-32 carriers are paternally linked to. The Birmaal carry EV32, T, J1 hablogroups thus far and have many subclans showing variances in Ydna. Madhibans thus far carry a downstream of E-18637 and J1. Anas aka Yiber are ev32 with their closest Ydna matches in the Darood groups. Hawle Qaasim is also E-V32 and connected to Darood groups. The artisans are out there lol and aren’t Jewish or some guys who flew out the sky with their skill sets but people that have been Somali and ruled and dominated before their fall. We are as Somali as can be and even in some cases showing to be the elder ancestors to the Somali people. Let’s see and watch as more test come in. Very interesting if I do say so myself.

What are the haplogroups you have seen among the various Gabooye (is this a politically correct term?) clans? I know there is a heavy J-P58 presence among you & some that fall under E-Y163928 & E-Y18637 but has there been any exotic haplogroups found in any of the different clans?
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 5:21:00 AM

——

Sorry for the re posting the same thing. Mobile phone acting funny
s1abx 4/29/2023 5:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

——

Sorry for the re posting the same thing. Mobile phone acting funny

Thought it was just me. Even when I send a reply it keeps the same text. It doesn’t do that on laptop. Beri inaa qolof cusub soo qaato waaye����
s1abx 4/29/2023 5:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

What are the haplogroups you have seen among the various Gabooye (is this a politically correct term?) clans? I know there is a heavy J-P58 presence among you & some that fall under E-Y163928 & E-Y18637 but has there been any exotic haplogroups found in any of the different clans?

There’s one with an A haplogroup on FTDNA.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 5:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes precisely and I think the estimates given are based off the first Mursade.

Thank you. This is why I believe the TMRCA I will get next month that separates us from the the Mj stays at 1350 similar to the current one we have which was based of the previous Murusade. However another separate TMRCA of just 250 years would have been given to both of us Murusade as we are close relatives. So a TMRCA of 1350 between Murusade and MJ. And another TMRCA of 250 between the previous Murusade and I. Too bad he left so it won’t be given that.

If hypothetically the other Karanle do match with me than they would form a TMRCA of 1200 from us Murusade. Meaning the MJ would separate at the 1350 mark followed by the other Karanle branches at 1200. Leaving a gap of 150 years between Karanle and Mj.

This is all hypothetical of course.
s1abx 4/29/2023 5:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes precisely and I think the estimates given are based off the first Mursade.

Are you that same Gabooye I have interacted with who posted their 23andme on Reddit? I’ve corrected you many times but you still keep saying the same wrong thing. These groups are not Darood or Hawiye, as your own DNA testing has shown. They do not link closely to a certain group so their ancestors must have been related but related far, etc on the E-Y163949 the Daroods plot close but the Gabooye are totally different branch, the Ogaden on there is a fake guy and so are the others. The E-Y18637 branch of Madhiban also do not plot closely to Hawiye.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 5:36:00 AM

lol this comment made me laugh
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 5:39:00 AM

Interesting
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 5:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Are you that same Gabooye I have interacted with who posted their 23andme on Reddit? I’ve corrected you many times but you still keep saying the same wrong thing. These groups are not Darood or Hawiye, as your own DNA testing has shown. They do not link closely to a certain group so their ancestors must have been related but related far, etc on the E-Y163949 the Daroods plot close but the Gabooye are totally different branch, the Ogaden on there is a fake guy and so are the others. The E-Y18637 branch of Madhiban also do not plot closely to Hawiye.

Interesting
Garaacad 4/29/2023 6:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

The time to most recent ancestor is estimated within a haplogroup and defined by the accumulation of mutations in STRs sequences of the Y-Chromosome of that haplogroup. The formed date of the Mursade clade thus far is 2600 ybp and tmrca is 1350 ybp with the younger branches. The oldest E-Y18632 Mj clade formed 1350 ybp and branched off E-BY8081 making it seem like one branched off the other. These are based off of current tmrcas. However, when you look at the live option it shows you have gotten a new clade under E-BY8081; E-Y325713. We won’t know for sure until the full update and this can change as more people take the test. They may be sibling clades and not necessarily elders.

As for the artisan groups E-18637 is Muse Dhiriye Dir and formed 2600 years ago as well but it seems like others branched off of him chart view. But like I said it can change as these samples find others that share the same mutations or clade. Same goes for one of the Birmaal Hayaag E-163928 and Hawle qasiim E-163949 who formed a few centuries before the rest of the Darood and share TMRCA of 900-1550 ybp. They may also need others that match to fully form an official clade.

We will keep learning as more take the test!

No, we did not branch off from id:YF092955. YFull can't define his lineage beyond E-Y18637, which is why he has that asterisk.

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes, so in other words some Somalis branch off early thus being more distantly related not ancestral.

I think MJ is 1200 years old not 1350.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18632/

MJ ancestor Amale separated from Murusade at the 1350 years ago mark. The question is why was this 1350 given at the 1st place. Was it because of the previous Murusade? If so then nothing will change in terms of TMRCA because we are close relatives.

The MJ clan could be older or younger than that 1200-year-old TMCRA. The E-Y18632 sample clearly got his lineage from another MJ, so it's unwise to make these assumptions. This is what YFull says: Subclade "formed" age: The TMRCA of a subclade is used as the "formed" age of each branch of the subclade. In other words, the formed age of a branch is the same as the TMRCA of the "parent" subclade of the branch. The TMCRA given to E-Y18632* came from E-BY8081*.

Originally Posted by SDPP

Oh gosh hahahaha. How is someone not man enough to take the test talking about others being sheegato lol. Tell him to grow some and take one or is he afraid he’s gonna connect to a SDPP sheegato ? The mind games some people play on themselves is ridiculously out of this world.

People have issues with the Somali DNA peace project because you think Gabooye clans don't exist. It's hard to determine the relationship between clans if people with unverified origins upload to YFull alongside those who legitimately descend from the clan. I can accept some Gabooyes are former Daaroods, Hawiyes, etc. We just want transparency when it comes to the labeling of samples.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 6:15:00 AM

@Garaacad, 2 questions I need answers to.

1) If the TMRCA of Mj becomes older than that 1200 then wouldn’t that push the TMRCA they now share with me (1350) even further away?

2) what’s the current TMRCA of E-Y18632? How much larger do you think it can get? And where would that place my TMRCA?
Garaacad 4/29/2023 6:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad, 2 questions I need answers to.

1) If the TMRCA of Mj becomes older than that 1200 then wouldn’t that push the TMRCA they now share with me (1350) even further away?

2) what’s the current TMRCA of E-Y18632? How much larger do you think it can get? And where would that place my TMRCA?

Yes, but I think E-Y18632's TMCRA will decrease rather than increase. The current TMCRA of 1200ypb makes little sense to me.
Bulletproofpride 4/29/2023 6:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Yes, but I think E-Y18632's TMCRA will decrease rather than increase. The current TMCRA makes little sense to me.

Thank you. It doesn’t make sense to me as well. The gap between Mj and I is really way too small. It also makes MJ a very old clan. Do you think the TMRCA I will get next month would update the entire tree a bit more accurately?
SDPP 4/29/2023 7:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

What are the haplogroups you have seen among the various Gabooye (is this a politically correct term?) clans? I know there is a heavy J-P58 presence among you & some that fall under E-Y163928 & E-Y18637 but has there been any exotic haplogroups found in any of the different clans?

Thank you for asking. Not too sure if Gaboye is a political correct term you would have to ask each person that is associated with the various groups. Some may like the umbrella term and see it as uniting where others see it as a form of continual oppression, contempt, and erasure of one’s true lineage.

The term Gaboye is the bag or sash which carries spears. Some of the artisans did not make the spear nor the bag, where others did, so calling them all Gaboye can be condescending.

As you dna studies prove, and they all know, these groups hail from different lines but were put together under the 4.5 system to try to find a solution to the dire situation of our country but instead made things worse.

As for me, I can understand both perspectives and respect each persons individual choice and our political systems should too by placing a 1 person 1 vote system in place. I really don’t know what term is appropriate, maybe just starting off by calling us by our given names is easiest lol. And from there if need be our appropriate clan Birmaal, Madhiban, Hawle, Anas etc.

I haven’t come across any exotic haplogroups in the artisan groups yet. There was one A-M18 or 14 and it turned out he was Oromo paternally. Otherwise it’s the basic found in Somalis and Eastern Africa. I’ve shared some below.

Birmaal/Tumaal- E-V32 so far E-Y163928 (Hayag), E-FT24258 (Dhulbahante reer Osman, E-FTC83339 (Canbuur Guled) , E-18668 (Abukar Adan Hayag) , T-Y358215 (Baxar Guled), and downstreams of J1> J-Y179455 (Omar Cade, Cisse Cade, Reer Osman)

Muse Dheriye Dir- E-V32>Y18637

Madhiban- E-V32>Y-18637> E-FTB57462 and J1>J-FT117952

Hawle Qaasim- E-V32> E-Y163949

Anas Yiber - E-V32 closest matches @37 markers are Darood groups (waiting on big Ys)

Galgale- E-V32-closest matches Darood groups waiting on Big Y

Yaxar E-V32 (need to do big y)
SDPP 4/29/2023 8:54:00 AM

[/QUOTE]

People have issues with the Somali DNA peace project because you think Gabooye clans don't exist. It's hard to determine the relationship between clans if people with unverified origins upload to YFull alongside those who legitimately descend from a clan. I can accept some Gabooyes are former Daaroods, Hawiyes, etc. We just want transparency when comes to the labeling of samples.[/QUOTE]

No one said they don’t exist they exist because we had ways people cultivated the earth for survival before we became crazy tribalist with nothing better to do then rip each other apart. Birmaal, Xolomaal, biyomaal, Somaal etc were ways or means for us to create the food, medical needs, clothes, homes, shoes, tools and weapons etc with the god given skills Allah has given humans. For some reason the Birmaal, Madhiban, Anas, and Muse etc were ostracized for their skills sets and grouped together but the xolodhaqato were not. We don’t have a tribe called xolodhaqato or geeljire etc.

This journey has nothing to really do with insecure people that are making this about themselves, this is a journey for artisans and Somalis alike to learn about themselves and find their truths. Our ancestors were resourceful and fought off colonial powers and what have we accomplished? What does some story of how great your ancestor was matter when you do nothing but hurt each other and carry on colonial systems meant to separate and divide? The reason these so called “unverified origins” stick to other Somalis is cause they are SOMALI. Where else would they go? And who tf are you to verify someone? What does that even mean lol!? When Allah himself created all humans from Adam and Hawa.

Let’s be serious when people are searching for answers, don’t get scared because you’ll be thrown out of line, there are ways to all help each other while learning more of oneself. With each test we take we ask what their tribe was and association and listed as such many of the J1 had assimilated with the dishishle, bah Bari others Dhulbahante, so we listed it as such. For the E-V32 Tumaals who know they are Darood and have proven to be so and the Madhibaan E-V32 that know they are Gorgate are comfortable where they are because their familial stories were correct.

We don’t have any fake test and there are artisans in our samples and many that are not but for the sake of Somalinimo and seeing how we all connect decided to participate. Either way, our project will continue with or without others approval. It’s the only way to dismantle the systems hurting all Somali people or at least we will have a scientific understanding of how the Somali people connect to each other and others nearby.
Mcmoud72 4/29/2023 9:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Just confirmed he is not that guy. Bowadheere hasn’t even ordered the kit. He is also refuting all these ogadens on the tree. Apparently they are all SDPP sheegato.

Si xun aan u qoslay walaahi kkkkkkkkkkkk
Garaacad 4/29/2023 6:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

No one said they don’t exist they exist because we had ways people cultivated the earth for survival before we became crazy tribalist with nothing better to do then rip each other apart. Birmaal, Xolomaal, biyomaal, Somaal etc were ways or means for us to create the food, medical needs, clothes, homes, shoes, tools and weapons etc with the god given skills Allah has given humans. For some reason the Birmaal, Madhiban, Anas, and Muse etc were ostracized for their skills sets and grouped together but the xolodhaqato were not. We don’t have a tribe called xolodhaqato or geeljire etc.

This journey has nothing to really do with insecure people that are making this about themselves, this is a journey for artisans and Somalis alike to learn about themselves and find their truths. Our ancestors were resourceful and fought off colonial powers and what have we accomplished? What does some story of how great your ancestor was matter when you do nothing but hurt each other and carry on colonial systems meant to separate and divide? The reason these so called “unverified origins” stick to other Somalis is cause they are SOMALI. Where else would they go? And who tf are you to verify someone? What does that even mean lol!? When Allah himself created all humans from Adam and Hawa.

Let’s be serious when people are searching for answers, don’t get scared because you’ll be thrown out of line, there are ways to all help each other while learning more of oneself. With each test we take we ask what their tribe was and association and listed as such many of the J1 had assimilated with the dishishle, bah Bari others Dhulbahante, so we listed it as such. For the E-V32 Tumaals who know they are Darood and have proven to be so and the Madhibaan E-V32 that know they are Gorgate are comfortable where they are because their familial stories were correct.

We don’t have any fake test and there are artisans in our samples and many that are not but for the sake of Somalinimo and seeing how we all connect decided to participate. Either way, our project will continue with or without others approval. It’s the only way to dismantle the systems hurting all Somali people or at least we will have a scientific understanding of how the Somali people connect to each other and others nearby.

What does your wall of text above have to do with my points? Hawle Qaasim is not recently related to any Majeerteen subclan. They are unrelated to E-FT24258 Wabeeneyes and E-BY8081 MJs, so you cannot describe their results as Majeerteen. There are many more examples of this.

Until the Somali DNA peace project starts accurately labeling samples, people will continue to assume the results of your entire project are unreliable.

No, their origin stories have been proven false. Madhibaans that claim to be Gorgaarte Hawiye have a completely different subclade to regular Hawiyes.

I'm not against you respecting the stories of their origins. I'm only against you failing to disclose the fact that certain samples are Gabooye. Now, because of you, many people think every single E-Y163949 sample is Gabooye.
Garaacad 4/29/2023 10:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you. It doesn’t make sense to me as well. The gap between Mj and I is really way too small. It also makes MJ a very old clan. Do you think the TMRCA I will get next month would update the entire tree a bit more accurately?

Yes, but we still need more samples.
SDPP 4/29/2023 11:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What does your wall of text above have to do with my points? Hawle Qaasim is not recently related to any Majeerteen subclan. They are unrelated to E-FT24258 Wabeeneyes and E-BY8081 MJs, so you cannot describe their results as Majeerteen. There are many more examples of this.

Until the Somali DNA peace project starts accurately labeling samples, people will continue to assume the results of your entire project are unreliable.

I understand you have issues with anyone that claims Majeerteen and differs from your results. Hawle Qaasim are said to be reer Mahamud and Harti, ask any Hawle. People say they are MJ and others say they are not. It’s not my job to say who is MJ and who isn’t. Everyone has their own lineage story and I respect that. MJ can be a confederation like many other Somali tribes are showing tol waa tolane. We have ordered another nebula test for another Hawle to see if they will branch off together and create an official clade. Insha Allah when we can afford it, we may test another non ostracized sub group closely related to them who are Majeerteen and even they claim closeness. see if the stories match up. I have recently learned about them and my job is not to tell them who they are based on I didn’t make that up. is not listed as Majeerteen. We haven’t brought any Wabeeneyes to test but what I understand they are Majeerteen or very closely related, so far they are Harti based on yfull and matches their abtirsi.

I want to also let people know that the FTDNA Somali Project started way before the Somali DNA Peace Project started. There were groups of Isaac, Darood, Hawiye etc on there before we added our kits. We have no admin affiliation with FTDNAs Somali Project. They have kind of jumped ship it seems since they too were attacked for “fake results”. SDPP is the East African DNA Peace Project on FTDNA because they stopped grouping any new test.

Our mission started when we took 23andMe autosomal test and noticed we were the only J1 out of our family and the over 240 matches that came up for us. This was quite a shock. As we learned more of our families stories we noticed huge discrepancies among all Somalis. Darood and Hawiye are not as different as people make them; most share the same haplogroup of E-V32. Isaac also had different paternal haplogroups; T & E etc. It was heart breaking to realize our people have been killing each other and used as political tools to uphold greedy politicians way of life to the demise of normal Somali citizens fleeing their homes, way of life to unforeseen trials in other parts of the world and at home; that we have almost this cult like mentality of clan affiliation and will kill and hurt others for it. This needs to stop. It does not help us or our country.
Garaacad 4/30/2023 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I understand you have issues with anyone that claims Majeerteen and differs from your results. Hawle Qaasim are said to be reer Mahamud and Harti, ask any Hawle. People say they are MJ and others say they are not. It’s not my job to say who is MJ and who isn’t. Everyone has their own lineage story and I respect that. MJ can be a confederation like many other Somali tribes are showing tol waa tolane. We have ordered another nebula test for another Hawle to see if they will branch off together and create an official clade. Insha Allah when we can afford it, we may test another non ostracized sub group closely related to them who are Majeerteen and even they claim closeness. see if the stories match up. I have recently learned about them and my job is not to tell them who they are based on I didn’t make that up. is not listed as Majeerteen. We haven’t brought any Wabeeneyes to test but what I understand they are Majeerteen or very closely related, so far they are Harti based on yfull and matches their abtirsi.

I want to also let people know that the FTDNA Somali Project started way before the Somali DNA Peace Project started. There were groups of Isaac, Darood, Hawiye etc on there before we added our kits. We have no admin affiliation with FTDNAs Somali Project. They have kind of jumped ship it seems since they too were attacked for “fake results”. SDPP is the East African DNA Peace Project on FTDNA because they stopped grouping any new test.

Our mission started when we took 23andMe autosomal test and noticed we were the only J1 out of our family and the over 240 matches that came up for us. This was quite a shock. As we learned more of our families stories we noticed huge discrepancies among all Somalis. Darood and Hawiye are not as different as people make them; most share the same haplogroup of E-V32. Isaac also had different paternal haplogroups; T & E etc. It was heart breaking to realize our people have been killing each other and used as political tools to uphold greedy politicians way of life to the demise of normal Somali citizens fleeing their homes, way of life to unforeseen trials in other parts of the world and at home; that we have almost this cult like mentality of clan affiliation and will kill and hurt others for it. This needs to stop. It does not help us or our country.

Hawle Qaasim could descend from another Harti clan, but it doesn't look like they are MJ. Under E-FT81055, there are two Wabeeneeye Majeerteens, and Hawle Qaasim doesn't match them. That's why I brought up that subclan.
SDPP 4/30/2023 12:26:00 AM

We all know most Hawiye Fall under E-18637 thus far, right? Madhiban are not saying they are Hawiye, the are saying they are Mahamed “Madhiban “ Gargate. It seems those with E-18637 formed 2600ypb and Madhiban, Mursade, and another Hawiye clade are under E-18637 and seems to be brother clades. Explain how you completely disproved their connection to other Hawiyes.

[Bad Link]
Garaacad 4/30/2023 12:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We all know most Hawiye Fall under E-18637 thus far, right? Madhiban are not saying they are Hawiye, the are saying they are Mahamed “Madhiban “ Gargate. It seems those with E-18637 formed 2600ypb and Madhiban, Mursade, and another Hawiye clade are under E-18637 and seems to be brother clades. Explain how you completely disproved their connection to other Hawiyes.

[Bad Link]

You must be joking... Gorgaarte was the son of Hawiye. Are you seriously telling me Hawiye (the man) was alive 2600 years ago? Related clans should match at 1000-1500 years ago. It's just common sense. No abtiris goes on forever.
SDPP 4/30/2023 1:31:00 AM

I respect both abtiris/oral genealogy but also want to compare genetic genealogy. I am living in the now and want to learn more of myself and people. Only Allah knows what was and what will be. We all know sometimes it doesn’t match up but where is hawiye on these test? The children of Hawiye are coming under E-18637 so where is the hawiye connect? Maybe more testing needs to be done? Idk but would love to find out.
Garaacad 4/30/2023 2:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I respect both abtiris/oral genealogy but also want to compare genetic genealogy. I am living in the now and want to learn more of myself and people. Only Allah knows what was and what will be. We all know sometimes it doesn’t match up but where is hawiye on these test? The children of Hawiye are coming under E-18637 so where is the hawiye connect? Maybe more testing needs to be done? Idk but would love to find out.

It's hard to imagine somebody can be this stubborn. E-Y18637 was an ancient man who lived well before Hawiye is said to have existed. Hawiye abtiris does not identify Majeerteen (E-BY8081) and Ugaaslabe (E-Y229068) as kin despite both groups falling under E-Y18637.
s1abx 4/30/2023 2:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We all know most Hawiye Fall under E-18637 thus far, right? Madhiban are not saying they are Hawiye, the are saying they are Mahamed “Madhiban “ Gargate. It seems those with E-18637 formed 2600ypb and Madhiban, Mursade, and another Hawiye clade are under E-18637 and seems to be brother clades. Explain how you completely disproved their connection to other Hawiyes.

[Bad Link]

Gorgarte is the son of Hawiye. Madhiban claim Maxamed Gorgarte while Maxamud Gorgarte is the forefather of HG, Abgaal etc. We have Maxamud Gorgarte results from those 2 mentioned subs and they are E-Y18637 --> E-BY192465. This E-BY192465 has a TMRCA of 2600 years, so surely if Madhiban was the son of Maxamed Gorgarte, he would be E-BY192465. He is not, so it is clear they are not Gorgarte. They are most likely the son of a higher group maybe Abrone, as I know the Galgale group's supposed abtiris is Galgale Abroone and the TMRCA would make more sense. Hawiye meets up with Abroone at Irir Samaale Hiil Abroone. Raxanweyn who are Sab Hiil Abrone get E-BY192465.
SDPP 4/30/2023 2:56:00 AM

So what is it that you want us to believe? That the YDNA findings are false? How are you gonna use the studies to make a claim supporting certain peoples connection yet use oral genealogy to disprove another? I am just sharing what we see and am learning like many others. To each his own.
s1abx 4/30/2023 2:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I respect both abtiris/oral genealogy but also want to compare genetic genealogy. I am living in the now and want to learn more of myself and people. Only Allah knows what was and what will be. We all know sometimes it doesn’t match up but where is hawiye on these test? The children of Hawiye are coming under E-18637 so where is the hawiye connect? Maybe more testing needs to be done? Idk but would love to find out.

Hawiye themselves do not match, with Gorgarte and Karanle being related at 2600 years each. If the Karanle samples we have turn out to be the fake son of Hawiye and all Samaale groups are E-BY192465, we can say that we meet up with Madhiban somewhere upwards, like I said maybe Abrone. If Karanle are the real son, something similar. Long story short, we can only tell when we get non Gorgarte and Murusade samples from Hawiye.
s1abx 4/30/2023 2:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

So what is it that you want us to believe? That the YDNA findings are false? How are you gonna use the studies to make a claim supporting certain peoples connection yet use oral genealogy to disprove another? I am just sharing what we see and am learning like many others. To each his own.

They're not but you are interpreting them incorrectly. They are related to Hawiye yes, but with a 2600 year old relation they surely aren't Hawiye.
SDPP 4/30/2023 5:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Gorgarte is the son of Hawiye. Madhiban claim Maxamed Gorgarte while Maxamud Gorgarte is the forefather of HG, Abgaal etc. We have Maxamud Gorgarte results from those 2 mentioned subs and they are E-Y18637 --> E-BY192465. This E-BY192465 has a TMRCA of 2600 years, so surely if Madhiban was the son of Maxamed Gorgarte, he would be E-BY192465. He is not, so it is clear they are not Gorgarte. They are most likely the son of a higher group maybe Abrone, as I know the Galgale group's supposed abtiris is Galgale Abroone and the TMRCA would make more sense. Hawiye meets up with Abroone at Irir Samaale Hiil Abroone. Raxanweyn who are Sab Hiil Abrone get E-BY192465.

What clan of hawiye is E-BY192465? He doesn’t have one listed on yfull and I heard he may be raxweyn? But we definitely need more Hawiye and really all Somalis to take these test. We just don’t have enough to make a full decision but we can see where they are at this point with what we have. I believe Galgale will have a downstream of E-Y163928 based on 37 marker testing and their matches with Darood groups. But we will see once upgraded.
s1abx 4/30/2023 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

What clan of hawiye is E-BY192465? He doesn’t have one listed on yfull and I heard he may be raxweyn? But we definitely need more Hawiye and really all Somalis to take these test. We just don’t have enough to make a full decision but we can see where they are at this point with what we have. I believe Galgale will have a downstream of E-Y163928 based on 37 marker testing and their matches with Darood groups. But we will see once upgraded.

The Abgaal and Habargidir samples are E-BY192456 and they have a good TMRCA with Raxanweyn sample. Going by your logic, Galgale should plot closely to MJ not Darood seeming as they claim they are Majerteen, Maxamud Saleeban, Nuux Maxamud. They are accepted widely anyway.
SDPP 4/30/2023 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

The Abgaal and Habargidir samples are E-BY192456 and they have a good TMRCA with Raxanweyn sample. Going by your logic, Galgale should plot closely to MJ not Darood seeming as they claim they are Majerteen, Maxamud Saleeban, Nuux Maxamud. They are accepted widely anyway.

Abgaal and habr gidir are downstreams of the raxanweyn is what you are saying. The E-BY192465 is Raxanweyn. Galgale are not Madhiban not sure why you brought them up. Galgale are known to be Darood but for some reason they are pulled in between hawiye and Darood.
s1abx 4/30/2023 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Abgaal and habr gidir are downstreams of the raxanweyn is what you are saying. The E-BY192465 is Raxanweyn. Galgale are not Madhiban not sure why you brought them up. Galgale are known to be Darood but for some reason they are pulled in between hawiye and Darood.

Not downstreams but they are related. They are from a different branch of E-BY192465. I saw you talking about Galgale earlier. They are assimilated to Darood and are apparently Gabooye or Hawiye in origin, no one is sure of their origins. Ma 🍔 baa mise waa Darood, only DNA will tell.
Bulletproofpride 4/30/2023 5:59:00 AM

It’s the fault of us Somalis who don’t want to to spend 150 dollars to get a better understanding of how we all relate. This tribal culture doesn’t always go strictly by abtirsi. Sometimes there were alliances forged between different factions for security reasons. We see this with the Adnan sometimes joining Qathan dominated area and Qathan joining Adnan dominated area.
Bulletproofpride 4/30/2023 6:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Not downstreams but they are related. They are from a different branch of E-BY192465. I saw you talking about Galgale earlier. They are assimilated to Darood and are apparently Gabooye or Hawiye in origin, no one is sure of their origins. Ma 🍔 baa mise waa Darood, only DNA will tell.

Kkkk lol
Bulletproofpride 4/30/2023 6:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Abgaal and habr gidir are downstreams of the raxanweyn is what youe are saying. The E-BY192465 is Raxanweyn. Galgale are not Madhiban not sure why you brought them up. Galgale are known to be Darood but for some reason they are pulled in between hawiye and Darood.

Raxanweyne still hasn’t gotten his TMRCA I believe. He seems to have branched off early from the proto Hiiraab group, making him a long lost ancient brother. But can we really call him RX?
SDPP 4/30/2023 8:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Not downstreams but they are related. They are from a different branch of E-BY192465. I saw you talking about Galgale earlier. They are assimilated to Darood and are apparently Gabooye or Hawiye in origin, no one is sure of their origins. Ma 🍔 baa mise waa Darood, only DNA will tell.

Obviously they know their origins but other folks that are confused of their origins don’t allow it. It looks like we have a who the daddy dilemma with a lot of people as DNA is showing lol. It’s inappropriate to call them 🍔 though for real. Whatever tribe they are Somalis, and deserve respect. By the way, have you taken a Ydna test? If seems like a lot of the ones who got a lot to say haven’t even taken a big Y
s1abx 4/30/2023 5:07:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Obviously they know their origins but other folks that are confused of their origins don’t allow it. It looks like we have a who the daddy dilemma with a lot of people as DNA is showing lol. It’s inappropriate to call them 🍔 though for real. Whatever tribe they are Somalis, and deserve respect. By the way, have you taken a Ydna test? If seems like a lot of the ones who got a lot to say haven’t even taken a big Y

Those origins are false. If they were really Maxamed Gorgarte they would be E-BY192456. What is so hard to understand?
SDPP 5/1/2023 2:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Those origins are false. If they were really Maxamed Gorgarte they would be E-BY192456. What is so hard to understand?

E-BY192456 is rahanweyn thus far. What hawiye is that specific clade if it isn’t Rahanweyn? I know habar gidir and abgaal have their own subclades. I don’t know what’s false and what is true about someones line. I wasn’t there when they were created lol. Only Allah knows this and the two who made them, sometimes not even them. I am just going on what some of the lineage stories are and comparing to dna findings. Save your coins and take the test, if you can afford it bring more Hawiye. For now watch these videos below to see I am not making up these connection stories. Also on that abtirsi site I found Madhiban listed as one of Gorgaate.

[Bad Link]

https://www.facebook.com/10006395055...L4cgl/?app=fbl

https://youtu.be/SJ6kTU-BHVY

https://youtu.be/N1hSLRXJEYc

https://youtu.be/5n8oO6NHTBw

https://youtu.be/s1sBe1Lt7Bg

https://youtu.be/oei3aErOk1k
Saeed 5/1/2023 4:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

E-BY192456 is rahanweyn thus far. What hawiye is that specific clade if it isn’t Rahanweyn? I know habar gidir and abgaal have their own subclades. I don’t know what’s false and what is true about someones line. I wasn’t there when they were created lol. Only Allah knows this and the two who made them, sometimes not even them. I am just going on what some of the lineage stories are and comparing to dna findings. Save your coins and take the test, if you can afford it bring more Hawiye. For now watch these videos below to see I am not making up these connection stories. Also on that abtirsi site I found Madhiban listed as one of Gorgaate.

[Bad Link]

https://www.facebook.com/10006395055...L4cgl/?app=fbl

https://youtu.be/SJ6kTU-BHVY

https://youtu.be/N1hSLRXJEYc

https://youtu.be/5n8oO6NHTBw

https://youtu.be/s1sBe1Lt7Bg

https://youtu.be/oei3aErOk1k

I think people are just assuming it's a Raxanweyn due to location, I don't think there is any confirmation, but even if it is a Raxanweyn, he is a descendant of E-BY192465 and Hiraab also descend from it.

E-BY192465 does not equal Raxanweyn just because he has E-BY192465*, you say the same thing with the Muse Dhiriye Dir because he has E-Y18637* and think the rest of us under E-Y18637 branched off from him when it just means he doesn't have a specific subclade yet.
Bulletproofpride 5/1/2023 4:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I think people are just assuming it's a Raxanweyn due to location, I don't think there is any confirmation, but even if it is a Raxanweyn, he is a descendant of E-BY192465 and Hiraab also descend from it.

E-BY192465 does not equal Raxanweyn just because he has E-BY192465*, you say the same thing with the Muse Dhiriye Dir because he has E-Y18637* and think the rest of us under E-Y18637 branched off from him when it just means he doesn't have a specific subclade yet.

I agree, it’s impossible for a modern day group to branch off from another modern day group. It doesn’t make sense at all.
s1abx 5/1/2023 5:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

E-BY192456 is rahanweyn thus far. What hawiye is that specific clade if it isn’t Rahanweyn? I know habar gidir and abgaal have their own subclades. I don’t know what’s false and what is true about someones line. I wasn’t there when they were created lol. Only Allah knows this and the two who made them, sometimes not even them. I am just going on what some of the lineage stories are and comparing to dna findings. Save your coins and take the test, if you can afford it bring more Hawiye. For now watch these videos below to see I am not making up these connection stories. Also on that abtirsi site I found Madhiban listed as one of Gorgaate.

[Bad Link]

https://www.facebook.com/10006395055...L4cgl/?app=fbl

https://youtu.be/SJ6kTU-BHVY

https://youtu.be/N1hSLRXJEYc

https://youtu.be/5n8oO6NHTBw

https://youtu.be/s1sBe1Lt7Bg

https://youtu.be/oei3aErOk1k

I know, I’ve seen them. Maybe there are some original Madhiban who link closely and these are assimilated ones, who knows. Anyway point is the samples we have are related at over 2600 years to Gorgarte samples so they cannot possibly be Gorgarte.
s1abx 5/1/2023 5:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I think people are just assuming it's a Raxanweyn due to location, I don't think there is any confirmation, but even if it is a Raxanweyn, he is a descendant of E-BY192465 and Hiraab also descend from it.

E-BY192465 does not equal Raxanweyn just because he has E-BY192465*, you say the same thing with the Muse Dhiriye Dir because he has E-Y18637* and think the rest of us under E-Y18637 branched off from him when it just means he doesn't have a specific subclade yet.

Interesting theory. The only Hawiye group I know of who live in Bay are Jijeele Gugundhabe Hawiye. It would be interesting if someone could find out their clan. Any contact information for that guy?
SDPP 5/1/2023 7:04:00 AM

I get you all are saying no one branches of anyone unless it matches oral genealogy lol. But so far the rahanweyn shares that clade group until it is confirmed or given another. Madhiban will be Mohamed Madhiban regardless of where they are shown on the yfull tree and we know for sure they are Somali. Unless we’d like to question this as well lol.
SDPP 5/1/2023 7:08:00 AM

So who are considered modern day groups? Were they called something else before. If so what?
Saeed 5/1/2023 8:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Interesting theory. The only Hawiye group I know of who live in Bay are Jijeele Gugundhabe Hawiye. It would be interesting if someone could find out their clan. Any contact information for that guy?

I messaged him on YFull a couple of months ago but he didn't reply
s1abx 5/1/2023 3:45:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I get you all are saying no one branches of anyone unless it matches oral genealogy lol. But so far the rahanweyn shares that clade group until it is confirmed or given another. Madhiban will be Mohamed Madhiban regardless of where they are shown on the yfull tree and we know for sure they are Somali. Unless we’d like to question this as well lol.

When did I say they weren’t Somali? They are as Somali as you and me, I have seen a big rise in Madhiban who claim

Hawiye though. Oral genealogy cannot be trusted, we can see MJ are not really Harti yet not one single person ever has said they are not Darood or brought an alternative lineage before the testing started. We have Gorgarte and Karanle not matching too.
SDPP 5/1/2023 9:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

When did I say they weren’t Somali? They are as Somali as you and me, I have seen a big rise in Madhiban who claim

Hawiye though. Oral genealogy cannot be trusted, we can see MJ are not really Harti yet not one single person ever has said they are not Darood or brought an alternative lineage before the testing started. We have Gorgarte and Karanle not matching too.

Exactly my point we need to compare the oral and scientific knowledge we have in a constructive and fair way. There are many inconsistencies but there are also many that line up. A Somali is a Somali regardless of haplogroup. For Madhiban I never heard them say they were Hawiye but heard some of them and others say they are Mohamed Gorgate, I get that automatically means Hawiye in these times but I too feel it could just be a political move or something to add them to the Hawiye but only Allah knows.

On a lighter note, I am optimistic and glad that many people are trying to learn more of themselves and region. It’s important to look into these types of things for ourselves rather than depend on what others wrote of us. May Allah make it good for us!
Bulletproofpride 5/2/2023 2:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

So who are considered modern day groups? Were they called something else before. If so what?

What I meant was no modern group is ancestral to another modern group. For example the RX is not “ancestral” to Hiiraab, Murusade is not ancestral to MJ etc. We are all just “distantly” related to one another.
SDPP 5/2/2023 5:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

What I meant was no modern group is ancestral to another modern group. For example the RX is not “ancestral” to Hiiraab, Murusade is not ancestral to MJ etc. We are all just “distantly” related to one another.

I get what you are saying and agree for the most part. That those formed around the same time, say 2600ybp, seem to be distantly related to each other. Some modern groups do seem standalone and may not be ancestral to each other but can come from a common place.

However, you’ll see others below them that formed for example 1550, 950, 600ybp etc.

How would you explain those in relation to each other? Like In the case of E-Y163949 and the 4 groups affiliated with Darod groups that branch down Or the relationship of E-FT24258 and those below. If a father and son take these test, I’m sure one will go above the other.

E-BY8081 formed 2600 ybp and E-Y18632 1350 ybp and E-Y18640 1200 and so forth. If you were to look at that without knowing anything about oral genealogy what would you think? I understand these are estimates and connections could change anytime but this is what it is looking like right now, to me at least and in other groups this is how it’s explained. I am up for all suggestions and ideas.
Bulletproofpride 5/2/2023 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I get what you are saying and agree for the most part. That those formed around the same time, say 2600ybp, seem to be distantly related to each other. Some modern groups do seem standalone and may not be ancestral to each other but can come from a common place.

However, you’ll see others below them that formed for example 1550, 950, 600ybp etc.

How would you explain those in relation to each other? Like In the case of E-Y163949 and the 4 groups affiliated with Darod groups that branch down Or the relationship of E-FT24258 and those below. If a father and son take these test, I’m sure one will go above the other.

E-BY8081 formed 2600 ybp and E-Y18632 1350 ybp and E-Y18640 1200 and so forth. If you were to look at that without knowing anything about oral genealogy what would you think? I understand these are estimates and connections could change anytime but this is what it is looking like right now, to me at least and in other groups this is how it’s explained. I am up for all suggestions and ideas.

It’s simple, with the case of E-Y163949, it split into 5 tribes. One of those tribes FT24258 was successful enough to further branch into several sub tribes. This does not mean that the Somalis under E-FT22485 are “modern” or “young” compared to the Somalis who test positive for E-Y272428. Because this would imply that the later is a parent to the former which is not true. For example if another 6 closely related Abgaal that are relatives to one of the Abgaals (id:YF094679) on the branch take the test and come on Yfull then those 7 would form their own branch with 7 sub branches. And because the HG and the other Abgaal haven’t branched out yet on the tree it would look to the untrained eye that both the HG and to an extent the lonely abgaal are ancestral to all of the 7 closely related Abgaals.

Because I am the only Murusade on the tree my branch hasn’t branched out yet and many Mj have taken the test it looks like I am ancestral to them. The mj under 18632* looks ancestral to the others but it’s not the case. It just means this specific MJ hasn’t branched out yet as no relative of him had tested yet to join him and form a sub branch.
SDPP 5/2/2023 8:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s simple, with the case of E-Y163949, it split into 5 tribes. One of those tribes FT24258 was successful enough to further branch into several sub tribes. This does not mean that the Somalis under E-FT22485 are “modern” or “young” compared to the Somalis who test positive for E-Y272428. Because this would imply that the later is a parent to the former which is not true. For example if another 6 closely related Abgaal that are relatives to one of the Abgaals (id:YF094679) on the branch take the test and come on Yfull then those 7 would form their own branch with 7 sub branches. And because the HG and the other Abgaal haven’t branched out yet on the tree it would look to the untrained eye that both the HG and to an extent the lonely abgaal are ancestral to all of the 7 closely related Abgaals.

Because I am the only Murusade on the tree my branch hasn’t branched out yet and many Mj have taken the test it looks like I am ancestral to them. The mj under 18632* looks ancestral to the others but it’s not the case. It just means this specific MJ hasn’t branched out yet as no relative of him had tested yet to join him and form a sub branch.

Thanks for your input! We shall see how the branches change and shift as more people come in! https://youtu.be/rbECdtbdr64
s1abx 5/2/2023 8:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Exactly my point we need to compare the oral and scientific knowledge we have in a constructive and fair way. There are many inconsistencies but there are also many that line up. A Somali is a Somali regardless of haplogroup. For Madhiban I never heard them say they were Hawiye but heard some of them and others say they are Mohamed Gorgate, I get that automatically means Hawiye in these times but I too feel it could just be a political move or something to add them to the Hawiye but only Allah knows.

On a lighter note, I am optimistic and glad that many people are trying to learn more of themselves and region. It’s important to look into these types of things for ourselves rather than depend on what others wrote of us. May Allah make it good for us!

We will have to drop this here, I know we won’t agree any further like last time. Mohamed Gorgarte is a new ideology anyway. As long as they match, we will welcome them. They are the limit though, other Gabooye groups must find their real clans like Madhiban has done. Btw, who are Canbuur Guuleed and the other ones? You say they are Tumaal however I have searched the internet and asked a Tumaal guy and I have never come across one single mention of them. Also in the Somali DNA project, you list some of the J entry as etc Bahgari (Tumaal Ciise Cade assimilate). How do you know they are Ciise Cade if they are assimilated into Bahgari? Is there any evidence that single person and their family are assimilated into Bahgari?
SDPP 5/3/2023 12:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

We will have to drop this here, I know we won’t agree any further like last time. Mohamed Gorgarte is a new ideology anyway. As long as they match, we will welcome them. They are the limit though, other Gabooye groups must find their real clans like Madhiban has done. Btw, who are Canbuur Guuleed and the other ones? You say they are Tumaal however I have searched the internet and asked a Tumaal guy and I have never come across one single mention of them. Also in the Somali DNA project, you list some of the J entry as etc Bahgari (Tumaal Ciise Cade assimilate). How do you know they are Ciise Cade if they are assimilated into Bahgari? Is there any evidence that single person and their family are assimilated into Bahgari?

Alhamdulilah I’m all ears and doing my part in collecting and sharing information walaal. It’s okay to disagree but that doesn’t mean we can’t agree eventually, or our minds can’t be changed, and if worse comes to worse, agree to disagree.

Our goal is not to claim someone else’s clan. Madhiban is Madhiban and Mursade Abgaaal etc are their own. We have our own lines and deserve to know where we stand within our Somali Family. We are comparing “our lineage stories” with the DNA nothing more nothing less.

Based on what I hear from the Birmaal/Tumaal groups, elders, and the other artisans Cisse Cade, Omar Cade, Cade Osman or reer Osman, typically J1 (a reer osman E-V32 is waiting for his big y) live among the dhishishle and other Hayaag groups, and depending on where they are situated it can range to Bah gari etc.

2 of the samples that claimed Bah Gari pay dia money with them. That’s all I know and Reer Daud is their family name. There is not a Cisse Cade that is listed as assimilated Bahgari. Reer Daud are the ones who live with Bah Gari and Madhibaan.

Abukar Adan, Bah Hayaag, Canbuur Guleed E-V32 and some others I forget, claim Hayaag. That’s all I know but I’m sure if you ask a Tumaal elder they can give you more details.
EV32 5/3/2023 3:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Alhamdulilah I’m all ears and doing my part in collecting and sharing information walaal. It’s okay to disagree but that doesn’t mean we can’t agree eventually, or our minds can’t be changed, and if worse comes to worse, agree to disagree.

Our goal is not to claim someone else’s clan. Madhiban is Madhiban and Mursade Abgaaal etc are their own. We have our own lines and deserve to know where we stand within our Somali Family. We are comparing “our lineage stories” with the DNA nothing more nothing less.

Based on what I hear from the Birmaal/Tumaal groups, elders, and the other artisans Cisse Cade, Omar Cade, Cade Osman or reer Osman, typically J1 (a reer osman E-V32 is waiting for his big y) live among the dhishishle and other Hayaag groups, and depending on where they are situated it can range to Bah gari etc.

2 of the samples that claimed Bah Gari pay dia money with them. That’s all I know and Reer Daud is their family name. There is not a Cisse Cade that is listed as assimilated Bahgari. Reer Daud are the ones who live with Bah Gari and Madhibaan.

Abukar Adan, Bah Hayaag, Canbuur Guleed E-V32 and some others I forget, claim Hayaag. That’s all I know but I’m sure if you ask a Tumaal elder they can give you more details.

I don’t understand why you would label them with the clan they pay diya with? You already know their identity why two labels? One hayaag and one their real clan? Or did you start having the two labels after people called you out ?
Garaacad 5/3/2023 3:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by EV32

I don’t understand why you would label them with the clan they pay diya with? You already know their identity why two labels? One hayaag and one their real clan? Or did you start having the two labels after people called you out ?

The testers probably put that information down. They may very well be lost Hayaag and Bah Geri, but I agree it's strange. They first need to match with legitimate Bah Geri and Hayaag to claim Bah Geri and Hayaag. Otherwise, their results will confuse people who are actually from those clans. To be fair to them, they are probably ashamed of their clan.
EV32 5/3/2023 4:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The testers probably put that information down. They may very well be lost Hayaag and Bah Geri, but I agree it's strange. They first need to match with legitimate Bah Geri and Hayaag to claim Bah Geri and Hayaag. Otherwise, their results will confuse people who are actually from those clans. To be fair to them, they are probably ashamed of their clan.

The testers said they’re gabooye but pay diyah with the other clans? If that’s the case we already know they’re gabooye why the need for the other label if the person already knows they’re a gabooye that’s part of a another clan for protection reasons? There are some Hawiye who know they’re Hawiye but for protection live in a daarood village should we start labeling them as daaroods ? Wouldn’t that be unfair to those daarods who have only one identity?
SDPP 5/3/2023 4:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by EV32

I don’t understand why you would label them with the clan they pay diya with? You already know their identity why two labels? One hayaag and one their real clan? Or did you start having the two labels after people called you out ?

If someone tells you they are Bahgari you as a test taker will put that down. How would you like if someone told you to put another clan when that is all you are known to be?

I think the J1s are where the confusion lies as they aren’t as large and did mix and live with others. Kind of like how the Isaac Ts are. You will eventually mix in with those closest to you.

The EV32 Madhiban, Tumaal, Halwe etc are listed as such on yfull with their subclans etc. Madhiban is a known tribe and are mostly E-18637. Tumaal Aka Blacksmith is complicated one as they don’t fall under one line mainly. They are found mostly with E-v32 but also carry T, J. They are spread amoung “Darood” groups genetically.

The reason we had to change the titles was because some dude on Somalispot libax jeere and puntite qween or pwenth galtrow I think their names were were making a fuss because Cisse Cade and Omar Cade both who were affiliated with Majeerteen and also tumaal told me to put that down. These 2 from sspot had an issue because there was a battle going on for the MJ title between two groups on FTDNA before we got there. The Cisse Cade and Omar Cade sample takers believe their job or what their ancestors did for work cannot be a lineage and they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade and not their line of work. So it is what it is and as they learn more things could change. As for now they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade, Reer Daud, Canbuur Guleed, Bah Hayaag, reer osman, Abukar Adan etc.
SDPP 5/3/2023 4:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The testers probably put that information down. They may very well be lost Hayaag and Bah Geri, but I agree it's strange. They first need to match with legitimate Bah Geri and Hayaag to claim Bah Geri and Hayaag. Otherwise, their results will confuse people who are actually from those clans. To be fair to them, they are probably ashamed of their clan.

No one is ashamed of their clan wtf lol. They just have legitimate lineage stories that people DON’T want to hear. They were dispersed all over Somalia, Ethiopia, and even Kenya due to the colonial wars and internal battles. They aren’t lost, they were oppressed and stigmatized for their skills by imperialist and their own. We are just trying to bring back the pieces.
Garaacad 5/3/2023 4:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

No one is ashamed of their clan wtf lol. They just have legitimate lineage stories that people DON’T want to hear. They were dispersed all over Somalia, Ethiopia, and even Kenya due to the colonial wars and internal battles. They aren’t lost, they were oppressed and stigmatized for their skills by imperialist and their own. We are just trying to bring back the pieces.

C'mon, stop beating around the bush. Gabooyes always claim to be from noble clans in the West. Many are ashamed but not all. I mean no disrespect but that's what I've observed in the diaspora.

Originally Posted by SDPP

If someone tells you they are Bahgari you as a test taker will put that down. How would you like if someone told you to put another clan when that is all you are known to be?

I think the J1s are where the confusion lies as they aren’t as large and did mix and live with others. Kind of like how the Isaac Ts are. You will eventually mix in with those closest to you.

The EV32 Madhiban, Tumaal, Halwe etc are listed as such on yfull with their subclans etc. Madhiban is a known tribe and are mostly E-18637. Tumaal Aka Blacksmith is complicated one as they don’t fall under one line mainly. They are found mostly with E-v32 but also carry T, J. They are spread amoung “Darood” groups genetically.

The reason we had to change the titles was because some dude on Somalispot libax jeere and puntite qween or pwenth galtrow I think their names were were making a fuss because Cisse Cade and Omar Cade both who were affiliated with Majeerteen and also tumaal told me to put that down. These 2 from sspot had an issue because there was a battle going on for the MJ title between two groups on FTDNA before we got there. The Cisse Cade and Omar Cade sample takers believe their job or what their ancestors did for work cannot be a lineage and they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade and not their line of work. So it is what it is and as they learn more things could change. As for now they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade, Reer Daud, Canbuur Guleed, Bah Hayaag, reer osman, Abukar Adan etc.

I can assure you there is no dispute. Ciise Cadde are not accepted in Somalia as well. Look up the story of General Mohamed Ali Samatar. You have yet to prove their genetic relationship to any MJ subclan.
Samaal 5/3/2023 4:57:00 AM

Due to Somali discrimination, Gabooye clans are angry and that is perfectly understandable. However, that does not mean that Gabooye people should place their results under the clans they live with. In Somalia, Madhibaan, Tumaal, Yibir etc, are called by these names and they operate as separate clans socially and politically. General Mohamed Ali Samatar is a Tumaal from Eyl and that's what his clan is and he has never claimed to be Majeerteen or Harti.

It is unfortunate and quite frankly, unethical, what is happening here.
Samaal 5/3/2023 5:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

No one is ashamed of their clan wtf lol. They just have legitimate lineage stories that people DON’T want to hear. They were dispersed all over Somalia, Ethiopia, and even Kenya due to the colonial wars and internal battles. They aren’t lost, they were oppressed and stigmatized for their skills by imperialist and their own. We are just trying to bring back the pieces.

Of course Madhibaan and Tumaal people who list themselves as Daarood sub-clans, are ashamed of their clan, if they were not ashamed, they would proudly claim their clan instead of claiming a clan they live with. It is heartbreaking to see what is happening to my fellow Somalis and it's a shame that organisations such as yours are enabling this behaviour. Furthermore, thanks to the incorrect labelling, these results are no longer credible.
SDPP 5/3/2023 5:39:00 AM

No one is ashamed of their clan we are happy to know we were the smartest of all and created things that humankind sees as beneficial. The ones to create the weapons to defend ourselves with, the pot and pans you cooked in, the bowls you eat from, the ones that made the shoes we walked on, the ships we sailed, the clothes to cover our bodies, the sheikhs, and healers to birth and circumcise you. We as the artisan class could survive . I could care less of titles, and have everything I could possibly want in life alhamdulilah. No one is angry or mad, we are being civil and using the technology Allah has blessed us with to not further lose our history and this includes Somali history. Where the world is fighting over who was the first to create, we are the only ones to try to hold them down. Get over yourselves, this is bigger than yourselves. It’s for the betterment of our people and nation. This is the last I am going to argue about what we write on our test as that is solely up to the taker; artisan and non artisan.
Garaacad 5/3/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by EV32

The testers said they’re gabooye but pay diyah with the other clans? If that’s the case we already know they’re gabooye why the need for the other label if the person already knows they’re a gabooye that’s part of a another clan for protection reasons? There are some Hawiye who know they’re Hawiye but for protection live in a daarood village should we start labeling them as daaroods ? Wouldn’t that be unfair to those daarods who have only one identity?

I am not defending their behavior. I'm just providing a reason as to why they aren't claiming their real clans. They claim Bah Geri because they believe they are Bah Geri. I'm saying they should describe themselves as reer Daud claiming Bah Geri, etc. That way, if they match with legitimate Bah Geri, their origin stories can be proven without confusing people.

I was using Bah Geri as an example, but you get the idea.
Garaacad 5/3/2023 6:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

No one is ashamed of their clan we are happy to know we were the smartest of all and created things that humankind sees as beneficial. The ones to create the weapons to defend ourselves with, the pot and pans you cooked in, the bowls you eat from, the ones that made the shoes we walked on, the ships we sailed, the clothes to cover our bodies, the sheikhs, and healers to birth and circumcise you. We as the artisan class could survive . I could care less of titles, and have everything I could possibly want in life alhamdulilah. No one is angry or mad, we are being civil and using the technology Allah has blessed us with to not further lose our history and this includes Somali history. Where the world is fighting over who was the first to create, we are the only ones to try to hold them down. Get over yourselves, this is bigger than yourselves. It’s for the betterment of our people and nation. This is the last I am going to argue about what we write on our test as that is solely up to the taker; artisan and non artisan.

What if 'reer Daud' descend from a different Bah Geri subclan to the ones they pay blood money with? Transparency is in their best interests.
drobbah 5/3/2023 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

No one is ashamed of their clan wtf lol. They just have legitimate lineage stories that people DON’T want to hear. They were dispersed all over Somalia, Ethiopia, and even Kenya due to the colonial wars and internal battles. They aren’t lost, they were oppressed and stigmatized for their skills by imperialist and their own. We are just trying to bring back the pieces.

The Somali caste system has nothing to do with European colonialism or colonial wars.This caste system can be seen among other Horner ethnic groups,Tuareg nomadic Berbers & the Bedouins of Arabia.It is clearly an ancient social system and a way for Somalis to organize their society.Obviously it was an unjust system and I sympathize with the various “low-caste” communities of Somaliweyn. The prejudice against them in the modern age is due to sheer ignorance.
SDPP 5/3/2023 6:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Somali caste system has nothing to do with European colonialism or colonial wars.This caste system can be seen among other Horner ethnic groups,Tuareg nomadic Berbers & the Bedouins of Arabia.It is clearly an ancient social system and a way for Somalis to organize their society.Obviously it was an unjust system and I sympathize with the various “low-caste” communities of Somaliweyn. The prejudice against them in the modern age is due to sheer ignorance.

If this is the case why are Somalis the only ones that shy from black-smithery and do not carry swords like the Sudanese? All the North Africans and Arabs alike have their daggers on their side still. The Bedouins are Bedouin’s and not everyone on their side lives that way. In Somalia we had socioeconomic systems that worked well like in the case of Birmaal, Biyomaal, Somaal, Xolomaal etc. After the Ahmed gurey movement, anti Islam agenda was formed and I believe the best areas to break down a stronghold is economical and socially. Most Arab countries are thriving and have all kinds of artisans selling in their markets and don’t tell their daughters or sons they can’t mix with a blacksmith or a shoemaker. Somalis have taken it way too far and it only hurts themselves.
Garaacad 5/3/2023 7:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Due to Somali discrimination, Gabooye clans are angry and that is perfectly understandable. However, that does not mean that Gabooye people should place their results under the clans they live with. In Somalia, Madhibaan, Tumaal, Yibir etc, are called by these names and they operate as separate clans socially and politically. General Mohamed Ali Samatar is a Tumaal from Eyl and that's what his clan is and he has never claimed to be Majeerteen or Harti.

It is unfortunate and quite frankly, unethical, what is happening here.

Finally, someone who doesn't live in la la land. How will anyone back home accept these results if the SDPP isn't giving us any subclan details? Reer Daud need to prove their relationship to other Bah Geri subclans before they call themselves Bah Geri. I don't get why people feel offended by the truth.

Just look at how confusing E-Y163949 has become now. There is no Kabalalax subclade or Koombe subclade on that tree, and Harti appears to be a direct son of Daarood. All we want is transparency.
SDPP 5/3/2023 7:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Finally, someone who doesn't live in la la land. How will anyone back home accept these results if the SDPP isn't giving us any subclan details? Reer Daud need to prove their relationship to other Bah Geri subclans before they call themselves Bah Geri. I don't get why people feel offended by the truth.

Just look at how confusing E-Y163949 has become now. There is no Kabalalax subclade or Koombe subclade on that tree, and Harti appears to be a direct son of Daarood. All we want is transparency.

Hawle, Madhiban, Galgale, Yaxar, and Anas aka yiber are listed as such. I will reach out to the sample takers and do the same for remaining Birmaal/Tumaal/ Blacksmith. We will list both their artisan connection and clan connections they believe they are. For the non artisan affiliated Leelkase, Marexaan, dhulbahante (2), Reer warfa, Bah Gari, Harti Abgaal etc they will still have the SDPP label although they are not artisan. Hope this helps clear things up for those who can’t tell who is who.
gazgaz 5/3/2023 9:51:00 AM

My somali g25 coordinates. can someone run them and tell me something interesting.

AbeGaz_scaled,-0.274314,0.084289,-0.036958,-0.063954,-0.001846,-0.028726,-0.017861,0.005307,0.11801,-0.076175,-0.012666,-0.002398,-0.002973,-0.007569,0.021851,-0.016706,0.02373,-0.005194,0.009804,0.005503,0.004367,0.000495,-0.0053,0.005061,0.001916
Saeed 5/3/2023 9:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by gazgaz

My somali g25 coordinates. can someone run them and tell me something interesting.

AbeGaz_scaled,-0.274314,0.084289,-0.036958,-0.063954,-0.001846,-0.028726,-0.017861,0.005307,0.11801,-0.076175,-0.012666,-0.002398,-0.002973,-0.007569,0.021851,-0.016706,0.02373,-0.005194,0.009804,0.005503,0.004367,0.000495,-0.0053,0.005061,0.001916

Target: AbeGaz_scaled

Distance: 6.6813% / 0.06681254

42.8 Dinka

35.2 Levant_PPNB

9.2 ETH_4500BP

8.2 MAR_Taforalt

4.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

What did you get on 23andMe? 100% Somali?
EV32 5/3/2023 11:43:00 AM

You guys are all doing great job I can't stress how much I appreciate everyone of your contribution to the somali dna community.

Many more people will be joining you as dna becomes cheaper and in reach to our people. We want our people to be sure they're getting the right information from here.

This is online there's no way we can verify what's correct but let us pay extra attention. It's 2023 there's no single somali in the west who claims a clan they're not.

Gabooye community in the United states for example are the most respected and feared community in Minnesota those who have been to MN will tell you.
SDPP 5/3/2023 2:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by EV32

You guys are all doing great job I can't stress how much I appreciate everyone of your contribution to the somali dna community.

Many more people will be joining you as dna becomes cheaper and in reach to our people. We want our people to be sure they're getting the right information from here.

This is online there's no way we can verify what's correct but let us pay extra attention. It's 2023 there's no single somali in the west who claims a clan they're not.

Gabooye community in the United states for example are the most respected and feared community in Minnesota those who have been to MN will tell you.

I feel it, thanks for your thoughtful words. I think learning more of our roots is essential and speaking up against injustice is even more key to building a better future for all of us, our nation as well as the global community. Working together will help move things in the right direction Insha Allah.

“It is fear that reinforces the walls we build, people are afraid to be swayed from their convictions, afraid to question their moral instincts and expose themselves to ideas that may challenge the fabric of their entire existence, but what are we if we are not seeking to better ourselves?”
Samaal 5/3/2023 2:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

If someone tells you they are Bahgari you as a test taker will put that down. How would you like if someone told you to put another clan when that is all you are known to be?

I think the J1s are where the confusion lies as they aren’t as large and did mix and live with others. Kind of like how the Isaac Ts are. You will eventually mix in with those closest to you.

The EV32 Madhiban, Tumaal, Halwe etc are listed as such on yfull with their subclans etc. Madhiban is a known tribe and are mostly E-18637. Tumaal Aka Blacksmith is complicated one as they don’t fall under one line mainly. They are found mostly with E-v32 but also carry T, J. They are spread amoung “Darood” groups genetically.

The reason we had to change the titles was because some dude on Somalispot libax jeere and puntite qween or pwenth galtrow I think their names were were making a fuss because Cisse Cade and Omar Cade both who were affiliated with Majeerteen and also tumaal told me to put that down. These 2 from sspot had an issue because there was a battle going on for the MJ title between two groups on FTDNA before we got there. The Cisse Cade and Omar Cade sample takers believe their job or what their ancestors did for work cannot be a lineage and they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade and not their line of work. So it is what it is and as they learn more things could change. As for now they are Cisse Cade and Omar Cade, Reer Daud, Canbuur Guleed, Bah Hayaag, reer osman, Abukar Adan etc.

Why would there be a battle over who is Majeerteen, between Majeerteen and Tumaal people? Nobody in Somalia thinks Tumaal and Majeerteen are the same people.

What does happen, is that some Gabooye people claim different clans to avoid discrimination. At the same time there are many Gabooye people who refuse to claim a clan they are not and would never list their result under Daarood sub-clans.
Samaal 5/3/2023 2:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Somali caste system has nothing to do with European colonialism or colonial wars.This caste system can be seen among other Horner ethnic groups,Tuareg nomadic Berbers & the Bedouins of Arabia.It is clearly an ancient social system and a way for Somalis to organize their society.Obviously it was an unjust system and I sympathize with the various “low-caste” communities of Somaliweyn. The prejudice against them in the modern age is due to sheer ignorance.

That is correct. The Somali caste system has nothing to do with colonialism, these are real clans and they are recognised in Somalia as real clans.

The trouble with labelling Gabooye results as other clan results, is that it makes Gabooye clans look like they are owned by other clans.

It reinforces the notion of being low-caste.
drobbah 5/3/2023 4:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Target: AbeGaz_scaled

Distance: 6.6813% / 0.06681254

42.8 Dinka

35.2 Levant_PPNB

9.2 ETH_4500BP

8.2 MAR_Taforalt

4.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

What did you get on 23andMe? 100% Somali?

Seems heavily Oromo admixed

Target: AbeGaz_scaled

Distance: 6.4390% / 0.06439039

42.4 Sudanese

40.2 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

9.0 ETH_Mota

5.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

2.8 MAR_Taforalt
drobbah 5/3/2023 4:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

If this is the case why are Somalis the only ones that shy from black-smithery and do not carry swords like the Sudanese? All the North Africans and Arabs alike have their daggers on their side still. The Bedouins are Bedouin’s and not everyone on their side lives that way. In Somalia we had socioeconomic systems that worked well like in the case of Birmaal, Biyomaal, Somaal, Xolomaal etc. After the Ahmed gurey movement, anti Islam agenda was formed and I believe the best areas to break down a stronghold is economical and socially. Most Arab countries are thriving and have all kinds of artisans selling in their markets and don’t tell their daughters or sons they can’t mix with a blacksmith or a shoemaker. Somalis have taken it way too far and it only hurts themselves.

The Bedouin Arabs still don’t marry the artisanal caste, former slaves communities, or non-tribals similar to Somalis.Not too sure about the Tuareg today but the nobility class doesn’t intermix with lower classes either.I don’t know where you got your info that nomadic noble Somalis didn’t have weapons..we had Iron spears,short swords,daggers,shields made of animal hide,axes & war clubs.The Somali nomads lived in a very violent society, ofcourse they carried weapons which were obviously crafted by our talented local artisanal castes or bought from foreigners on the coast.

Imam Axmed campaign and what followed had nothing to do with the treatment of the Gabooye communities or some “anti-Islam agenda”.In fact the various Gabooye communities weren’t mentioned in the Futuh unlike my Habar Magaadle (majority of the Isaaqs), various Darod subclans and the Hawiye (without subclan being named).
Bulletproofpride 5/3/2023 8:47:00 PM

Nebula went back to 249. When will it be 149 again you think? My Gidir friend wants to take it now it seems.
Bulletproofpride 5/3/2023 9:01:00 PM

Murusade is also artisan in a way. We historically made the burjiko to cook with and the dabqaad for incense burning. All made by hand. The burjiko is made from sepiolite mined from Somalia's central district of El Buur. The dabqaad pot is made from a white clay or soapstone found in specific areas of Somalia. Meerschaum (sepiolite) is used to make the dabqaad, with the district of El Buur serving as a center for quarrying. El Buur is also the place of origin of the local pipe-making industry. We also sold maqaar. At one point it was the 4th highest commodity in the country after livestock, bananas and incenses.
SDPP 5/3/2023 9:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Bedouin Arabs still don’t marry the artisanal caste, former slaves communities, or non-tribals similar to Somalis.Not too sure about the Tuareg today but the nobility class doesn’t intermix with lower classes either.I don’t know where you got your info that nomadic noble Somalis didn’t have weapons..we had Iron spears,short swords,daggers,shields made of animal hide,axes & war clubs.The Somali nomads lived in a very violent society, ofcourse they carried weapons which were obviously crafted by our talented local artisanal castes or bought from foreigners on the coast.

Imam Axmed campaign and what followed had nothing to do with the treatment of the Gabooye communities or some “anti-Islam agenda”.In fact the various Gabooye communities weren’t mentioned in the Futuh unlike my Habar Magaadle (majority of the Isaaqs), various Darod subclans and the Hawiye (without subclan being named).

Ahmed Gurey was most like a Karanale and most likely mixed with Arab or Harari. He also had Harla relatives which were a big chunk of his force. Somalis in general were the backbone of his movement. I believe the reason the artisans were not mentioned Futuh Al Habesha is because these occupational caste did not exist and they were within these Somali groups that were fighting. Automosal DNA testing is proof as after 4 generations all Somalis artisan or not come up for each other and sometimes even earlier generations. I know for example the name Somaal and Birmaal etc were in existence before the normalization of Arab style emphasis on tribes, clans, sub clan, sub sub clans worshipping. For example Somalis were known as Tum Tum in Harar and parts of Oromia before being called Somali. The name Somali itself was from Ethiopians.

In regards to Bedouins just like you see in Somalis the reer mee or reer badiyo or the inland nomadic people and city dwellers costal people dislike or distaste for one another. They had their way of life and didn’t understand how the other did what they did. The nomads a free people who went where it was best for their camels or sheep etc felt the city people who were mainly sedentary as stuck and held down. What each was doing was perfectly fine but it is human nature when one doesn’t understand something to try to look down. Kind of like how coastal people eat fish etc. inland folks see it as weird and disgusting.

Whatever way you’d like to see the artisans aka gaboye they are connected one way or another. They are happy with their skills for those that still practice. Most Somalis today work in gaboyee positions across the world.

Either way artisans are found in each haplogroup and share kinship with all Somalis, love it or hate. By no choice of their own they are stuck being Somali.
SDPP 5/3/2023 10:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Murusade is also artisan in a way. We historically made the burjiko to cook with and the dabqaad for incense burning. All made by hand. The burjiko is made from sepiolite mined from Somalia's central district of El Buur. The dabqaad pot is made from a white clay or soapstone found in specific areas of Somalia. Meerschaum (sepiolite) is used to make the dabqaad, with the district of El Buur serving as a center for quarrying. El Buur is also the place of origin of the local pipe-making industry. We also sold maqaar. At one point it was the 4th highest commodity in the country after livestock, bananas and incenses.

That’s great to know. I think I may have read about El Buur not too long ago. I believe there are so many innovations and human advancements that took place in Somalia and it seems many of our artifacts are held in the British museum. Would be great to document the last of those who make and practice their craft. I know the Muse Dhirii Dir were pottery makers etc also.
Bulletproofpride 5/3/2023 10:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

That’s great to know. I think I may have read about El Buur not too long ago. I believe there are so many innovations and human advancements that took place in Somalia and it seems many of our artifacts are held in the British museum. Would be great to document the last of those who make and practice their craft. I know the Muse Dhirii Dir were pottery makers etc also.

Thanks for the feed back. The practice of making the incense burner and the burjiko is still ongoing and it’s mass produced. It’s nice to know Muse Dhirii Dir were doing similar work. Artisan were the back bone of many nations

https://twitter.com/dhoocilk/status/...yuY4wZOudMERxA
SDPP 5/3/2023 11:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thanks for the feed back. The practice of making the incense burner and the burjiko is still ongoing and it’s mass produced. It’s nice to know Muse Dhirii Dir were doing similar work. Artisan were the back bone of many nations

https://twitter.com/dhoocilk/status/...yuY4wZOudMERxA

That’s great to know! Hope I have the means to see firsthand the amazing work they all do. May Allah protect them.
s1abx 5/3/2023 11:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

That’s great to know. I think I may have read about El Buur not too long ago. I believe there are so many innovations and human advancements that took place in Somalia and it seems many of our artifacts are held in the British museum. Would be great to document the last of those who make and practice their craft. I know the Muse Dhirii Dir were pottery makers etc also.

Why do you call them Dir if they are E-V32 specifically E-Y18637 allegedly? Dir are T haplogroup and the original ones are E-BY155496 something.
Samaal 5/3/2023 11:54:00 PM

Madhibaan and Tumaal people live dispersed across Somalia and they live with families from other clans. Historically and even in present-day, they make shoes, metal items and also tend to the animals, but they are not allowed to cook food. In exchange for protection, madhibaan and tumaal pay blood money with the clans they live. This does make people privy to the clan names and abtiris of the clans they live with, but there is no understood or acceptable practice of 'assimilation'. It is haram in Islam and deeply frowned upon in Somalia. Perhaps some of you are mistaking Somalis for other ethnic groups. In the West, there are proud Madhibaan and Tumaal people who claim their clans and then there are those who claim the clans they worked for, but it is always discovered. I suggest travelling to Somalia and doing some research on this.
s1abx 5/3/2023 11:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Hawle, Madhiban, Galgale, Yaxar, and Anas aka yiber are listed as such. I will reach out to the sample takers and do the same for remaining Birmaal/Tumaal/ Blacksmith. We will list both their artisan connection and clan connections they believe they are. For the non artisan affiliated Leelkase, Marexaan, dhulbahante (2), Reer warfa, Bah Gari, Harti Abgaal etc they will still have the SDPP label although they are not artisan. Hope this helps clear things up for those who can’t tell who is who.

Do you have Yaxar samples? Yaxar are Yibir allegedly. Galgale are also Majerteen, no? 99% of MJs accept them as MJ so this is one instance it is better to list them as Nuux Maxamud maybe as that's what they're known as.
Samaal 5/4/2023 12:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Do you have Yaxar samples? Yaxar are Yibir allegedly. Galgale are also Majerteen, no? 99% of MJs accept them as MJ so this is one instance it is better to list them as Nuux Maxamud maybe as that's what they're known as.

I hear Nuux Maxamoud and Galgala are two separate things but will provide more information when discovered.
Samaal 5/4/2023 12:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Hawle Qaasim could descend from another Harti clan, but it doesn't look like they are MJ. Under E-FT81055, there are two Wabeeneeye Majeerteens, and Hawle Qaasim doesn't match them. That's why I brought up that subclan.

Hawle Qaasim does not match with Majeerteen, because they are not Majeerteen, they are a known Madhibaan clan from DDSI.

If they are claiming Harti, it's because they worked for that clan like the other people who are submitting their name as the name of the clan they were employed for. But they need to add a disclaimer to show this. We need transparency.

The two "Wabeeneye" are also Madhibaan people, who have decided to claim the clan they worked for, instead of their own Madhibaan or Tumaal family names.

I believe both of the men are in this thread so they can explain to everyone why they choose to do this.
SDPP 5/4/2023 12:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Madhibaan and Tumaal people live dispersed across Somalia and they live with families from other clans. Historically and even in present-day, they make shoes, metal items and also tend to the animals, but they are not allowed to cook food. In exchange for protection, madhibaan and tumaal pay blood money with the clans they live. This does make people privy to the clan names and abtiris of the clans they live with, but there is no understood or acceptable practice of 'assimilation'. It is haram in Islam and deeply frowned upon in Somalia. Perhaps some of you are mistaking Somalis for other ethnic groups. I suggest travelling to Somalia and doing some research on this.

I have never experienced this and our family is mixed with artisan and non. Even in hargeisa, burco, Mogadishu, and lascanood where we have family they share meals with others and live with other Somalis. One of my relatives even has a Cafe and restaurant where many eat and dine. Just because one family behaves a certain way does not mean others do as well. Also when it comes to lineage and living amoung others there are some of the tumaal brothers that are paternally matched with other Somali groups. As they hold their Birmaal legacy they also share gentically the same fathers line in many cases with Some Somali groups. So while you preach about the right behaviors and Islamic etiquette, watch that you are not the one denying others of their truth. Every human comes from a set of parents. No one wants to be from your parents and are happily who Allah created them to be. Allah greatly frowns upon injustice and oppression. So if you don’t have any contributions towards learning about Somali history or how we are all connected and differ I suggest you do some research as well. Yes some Somalis are craftsmen, yes some of the nomadic groups preferred not to marry them, yes there was a stigma with the jobs they preformed. And So what? The first world nations become who they are by supporting and promoting these innovations. What was happened, what is is, what takes places going forward only Allah knows. Work for your akhira and the betterment of the present. To each his own.
Samaal 5/4/2023 12:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I have never experienced this and our family is mixed with artisan and non. Even in hargeisa, burco, Mogadishu, and lascanood where we have family they share meals with others and live with other Somalis. One of my relatives even has a Cafe and restaurant where many eat and dine. Just because one family behaves a certain way does not mean others do as well. Also when it comes to lineage and living amoung others there are some of the tumaal brothers that are paternally matched with other Somali groups. As they hold their Birmaal legacy they also share gentically the same fathers line in many cases with Some Somali groups. So while you preach about the right behaviors and Islamic etiquette, watch that you are not the one denying others of their truth. Every human comes from a set of parents. No one wants to be from your parents and are happily who Allah created them to be. Allah greatly frowns upon injustice and oppression. So if you don’t have any contributions towards learning about Somali history or how we are all connected and differ I suggest you do some research as well. Yes some Somalis are craftsmen, yes some of the nomadic groups preferred not to marry them, yes there was a stigma with the jobs they preformed. And So what? The first world nations become who they are by supporting and promoting these innovations. What was happened, what is is, what takes places going forward only Allah knows. Work for your akhira and the betterment of the present. To each his own.

My dear.

I do not condone of discrimination. I am simply relaying the truth about the unfortunate caste system in Somalia. In order to address and rectify injustice we must tell the true and full story.

Madhibaan and Tumaal people are subservient to larger clans and they work for them. They do not have political power and socially they are repressed to varying levels depending on where in Somalia. This is why the unfortunate practice of shegatnimo arose. What I find perplexing is why educated, intelligent and empowered Gabooye people want to continue labelling results as subservient or even worse; erasing the proud identity of their true forebears.
Samaal 5/4/2023 12:25:00 AM

Furthermore my dear @sdpp

You mentioned many times that this is a job and not a lineage. This is not true. Whilst we cannot point out how the caste system arose, we do know for certain that these families turned into larger families and eventually, clans. This is why they call themselves Reer hebel. For example, you mention the name Ciise, Cumar and Cali Cadde. These are sub-clans of the Tumaal clan. They are not individuals, they number in the hundreds if not thousands and they can do abtiris for Centuries. I suspect you are mistaking the Somali caste system for another ethnic group? Perhaps the Oromos? This is why I suggested that people do research and visit Somalia.

Do not take offence, I do not mean you harm. I hope we can continue to have fruitful discussions!
Saeed 5/4/2023 12:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

This does make people privy to the clan names and abtiris of the clans they live with, but there is no understood or acceptable practice of 'assimilation'. It is haram in Islam and deeply frowned upon in Somalia. Perhaps some of you are mistaking Somalis for other ethnic groups.

Well YFull proves many clans have been assimilated.
SDPP 5/4/2023 12:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Do you have Yaxar samples? Yaxar are Yibir allegedly. Galgale are also Majerteen, no? 99% of MJs accept them as MJ so this is one instance it is better to list them as Nuux Maxamud maybe as that's what they're known as.

We thought Yaxar would be the same as Arab salax paternally and would get J1 but two samples we took of Yaxar and Arab salah are both E-v32. Galgale is also E-V32 and match at 37 markers with some MJs. Yiber samples at 37 markers also matched with Darood groups. Both Anas aka Yiber are waiting for upgrades to eventually get them on yfull. These test are pricey and not many want to pay for them. We are hoping to search for Harla and Gheri soon as I heard they are older when it comes to Kombe kablalax.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 5/4/2023 12:37:00 AM

I agree with SDPP 100%. Some Madibaan clans knew their tribal Somali origin forinstance the Canbuur sub clan who turned out to be E-163949, however because they adopted crafts hip roles members of their own sub sub clan stoped marrying from them. This resulted in them adopting the Madibaan and their clan identity simultaneously for marriage and reproduction purposes.
Samaal 5/4/2023 12:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Well YFull proves many clans have been assimilated.

The people who are assimilated don't know anything about being madhibaan or tumaal, they think their real forebear is from the clan they claim. The clans that claim to be assimilated come from families who worked for the families they claim. You will see it in this thread with people claiming Hawle Qasim, Maxad Barre, Hayag etc. They know they are actually Madhibaan or Tumaal who just happens to work for those families and not actual real life family members.
SDPP 5/4/2023 12:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Furthermore my dear @sdpp

You mentioned many times that this is a job and not a lineage. This is not true. Whilst we cannot point out how the caste system arose, we do know for certain that these families turned into larger families and eventually, clans. This is why they call themselves Reer hebel. For example, you mention the name Ciise, Cumar and Cali Cadde. These are sub-clans of the Tumaal clan. They are not individuals, they number in the hundreds if not thousands and they can do abtiris for Centuries. I suspect you are mistaking the Somali caste system for another ethnic group? Perhaps the Oromos? This is why I suggested that people do research and visit Somalia.

Do not take offence, I do not mean you harm. I hope we can continue to have fruitful discussions!

I am not taking anything wrong and respect all people’s ideas and input. I am also learning along the way so no issue on my end. None the less, I don’t see how the craftsmen were working or subservient for any Somali people. They were providing a service for a fee or trade like all businesses do. The cars your drive, shoes you wear, food you eat are bought from someone else unless you can make your own. Another theory is the craftsmen held a monopoly over resources and the nomadic Somalis were tired of paying so much and decided to stop and oppress them through social means. There are lots of stories and even then, this is in the past.

We have many instances of certain tribes actually working for colonial powers but I can promise you it wasn’t the craftsmen who were booty clapping for them.
SDPP 5/4/2023 12:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Hawle Qaasim does not match with Majeerteen, because they are not Majeerteen, they are a known Madhibaan clan from DDSI.

If they are claiming Harti, it's because they worked for that clan like the other people who are submitting their name as the name of the clan they were employed for. But they need to add a disclaimer to show this. We need transparency.

The two "Wabeeneye" are also Madhibaan people, who have decided to claim the clan they worked for, instead of their own Madhibaan or Tumaal family names.

I believe both of the men are in this thread so they can explain to everyone why they choose to do this.

Look I don’t know why you are bringing Hawle and Wabaneeye up over and over. I know you must be MJ cause it seems you all have issue with them. I don’t have any Wabaneeye sample on SDPP but there are brothers who have taken samples who match with the harti groups this far.

You guys have to figure that mixup within yourselves if you don’t match. DNA has shown confederations in many groups and that is OKAY. You all ain’t the only ones lol.
Samaal 5/4/2023 1:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I am not taking anything wrong and respect all people’s ideas and input. I am also learning along the way so no issue on my end. None the less, I don’t see how the craftsmen were working or subservient for any Somali people. They were providing a service for a fee or trade like all businesses do. The cars your drive, shoes you wear, food you eat are bought from someone else unless you can make your own. Another theory is the craftsmen held a monopoly over resources and the nomadic Somalis were tired of paying so much and decided to stop and oppress them through social means. There are lots of stories and even then, this is in the past.

We have many instances of certain tribes actually working for colonial powers but I can promise you it wasn’t the craftsmen who were booty clapping for them.

The caste system in Somalia is very real and it's a very ugly reality. My dear sister, Somali nomads and merchants have made these clans subservient and this is why till this day, Somalis from nomadic or merchant clans refuse to do manual labour, lest they be called 🌮 and refused marriage. I have Madhibaan and Tumaal friends and I have families that work for my clan and I know the reality in Somalia. There are countless Gabooye people in Somalia who need a voice and who need diasporans such as yourself to speak for them, to uplift them and to honour them. Instead you have chosen to list their names with the clans they work for. Effectively, erasing them and making them subservient even on the spreadsheets!

My dear sister, I don't know what you are saying about Colonials and bootyclapping but let's not regress to fadhi ku dirir, especially not on a non-Somali platform.
Samaal 5/4/2023 1:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Look I don’t know why you are bringing Hawle and Wabaneeye up over and over. I know you must be MJ cause it seems you all have issue with them. I don’t have any Wabaneeye sample on SDPP but there are brothers who have taken samples who match with the harti groups this far.

You guys have to figure that mixup within yourselves if you don’t match. DNA has shown confederations in many groups and that is OKAY. You all ain’t the only ones lol.

When you say "Harti group", are you referring the Madhiban and Tumaal results that you titled 'assimilated'.
Samaal 5/4/2023 1:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We thought Yaxar would be the same as Arab salax paternally and would get J1 but two samples we took of Yaxar and Arab salah are both E-v32. Galgale is also E-V32 and match at 37 markers with some MJs. Yiber samples at 37 markers also matched with Darood groups. Both Anas aka Yiber are waiting for upgrades to eventually get them on yfull. These test are pricey and not many want to pay for them. We are hoping to search for Harla and Gheri soon as I heard they are older when it comes to Kombe kablalax.

Would it not be more fruitful to investigate the Somali folklore that Madhibaan are Gorgarte Hawiye?
SDPP 5/4/2023 1:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Would it not be more fruitful to investigate the Somali folklore that Madhibaan are Gorgarte Hawiye?

There are a few positioned on Yfull under E-18637. We know where they stand within the Somali Yfull family. What would be even more fruitful would be all Somalis looking into our history together, undivided.
Samaal 5/4/2023 1:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

There are a few positioned on Yfull under E-18637. We know where they stand within the Somali Yfull family. What would be even more fruitful would be all Somalis looking into our history together, undivided.

Undivided and united in telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me Allah.
SDPP 5/4/2023 2:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Undivided and united in telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me Allah.

Yes sir! Whole truth and nothing but the truth. My truth though, may not be your truth, but these studies will like Maury does and reveal who IS or IS NOT the Father lol.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

There are a few positioned on Yfull under E-18637. We know where they stand within the Somali Yfull family. What would be even more fruitful would be all Somalis looking into our history together, undivided.

Are there Gorgaarte Hawiye other than Hiraab on the E-Y18637 Yfull tree?
SDPP 5/4/2023 2:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are there Gorgaarte Hawiye other than Hiraab on the E-Y18637 Yfull tree?

I’ll be honest I don’t know much of who falls under who. I fell into this by accident, I don’t know much of clan trees. So far it seems abgaal, haber gidir, and your test are the 3 listed on yfull. You would have to help me learn who all falls under gorgate or share a tree or list. We have a harti Agaal under SDPP at 37markers on FTDNA have not upgraded. Another Hawadle wants to participate as well and we hope to add him when we have the means.
Garaacad 5/4/2023 2:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

I hear Nuux Maxamoud and Galgala are two separate things but will provide more information when discovered.

The only Nuux Maxamoud sample on FTDNA is ungrouped and looks closer to the E-Y163949 group than to E-BY8081 carriers.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 2:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I’ll be honest I don’t know much of who falls under who. I fell into this by accident, I don’t know much of clan trees. So far it seems abgaal, haber gidir, and your test are the 3 listed on yfull. You would have to help me learn who all falls under gorgate or share a tree or list. We have a harti Agaal under SDPP at 37markers on FTDNA have not upgraded. Another Hawadle wants to participate as well and we hope to add him when we have the means.

It would be nice to see Xawaadle results. How reliable are the 37 mark tests? I heard from Garaacad and others they are not 100% accurate. What’s up with that? I believe the Hiiraab brothers know who is Gorgaarte. I know of Silcis Gorgaarte and Wadalaan Gorgaarte.
s1abx 5/4/2023 2:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

I hear Nuux Maxamoud and Galgala are two separate things but will provide more information when discovered.

Apparently they were before but in 1991 they were assimilated into it.
s1abx 5/4/2023 2:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We thought Yaxar would be the same as Arab salax paternally and would get J1 but two samples we took of Yaxar and Arab salah are both E-v32. Galgale is also E-V32 and match at 37 markers with some MJs. Yiber samples at 37 markers also matched with Darood groups. Both Anas aka Yiber are waiting for upgrades to eventually get them on yfull. These test are pricey and not many want to pay for them. We are hoping to search for Harla and Gheri soon as I heard they are older when it comes to Kombe kablalax.

Carab Saalax are J1 la hubo sxb. Don’t know where you’re getting this from. I have seen one on 23andme and there was also one who took a big Y on SSpot and he linked closely to Mehris.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 2:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Carab Saalax are J1 la hubo sxb. Don’t know where you’re getting this from. I have seen one on 23andme and there was also one who took a big Y on SSpot and he linked closely to Mehris.

Carab Salax are 100% Mehri. No doubt.
s1abx 5/4/2023 2:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I’ll be honest I don’t know much of who falls under who. I fell into this by accident, I don’t know much of clan trees. So far it seems abgaal, haber gidir, and your test are the 3 listed on yfull. You would have to help me learn who all falls under gorgate or share a tree or list. We have a harti Agaal under SDPP at 37markers on FTDNA have not upgraded. Another Hawadle wants to participate as well and we hope to add him when we have the means.

Brief map. Hiraab isn’t the son of Maxamud though, he counts 8 or so to Maxamud.

[Bad Link]
drobbah 5/4/2023 3:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Ahmed Gurey was most like a Karanale and most likely mixed with Arab or Harari.

Axmed Gurey was Habar Magaadle, the Imam who you are probably referring too was neither Somali (let alone Hawiye) nor was he Harari (medieval migrants fleeing the Oromo expansions from Sidama inhabited areas as proven by their Sidamic substratum) and definitely not Arab as he was never mentioned to be Arab by the Futuh chronicler.He seem to be an outsider to all these groups (Harla,Somalis,Yemenis,Maghrebis,Arab Sharifs etc).The Futuh does mention Northern Horner Muslims settling in the Ifat Sultanate during the time of Sultan Sa’ad-Din so maybe he came from them but unfortunately we will never know his confirmed ethnicity

He also had Harla relatives which were a big chunk of his force.

He had a relative that was the Sultan of Shewa through the Imam’s mother and the Somali Geri Koombe chief was his brother-in-law. He definitely had political connections to various Horner groups.

Somalis in general were the backbone of his movement. I believe the reason the artisans were not mentioned Futuh Al Habesha is because these occupational caste did not exist and they were within these Somali groups that were fighting.

I think this is just false, the most probable reason they weren’t fighting was because fighting was the responsibility of noble nomadic & semi-nomadic clans not the artisanal caste.Essentially Noble Somalis were the warrior caste

Automosal DNA testing is proof as after 4 generations all Somalis artisan or not come up for each other and sometimes even earlier generations. I know for example the name Somaal and Birmaal etc were in existence before the normalization of Arab style emphasis on tribes, clans, sub clan, sub sub clans worshipping. For example Somalis were known as Tum Tum in Harar and parts of Oromia before being called Somali. The name Somali itself was from Ethiopians.

More Psuedo-science.Somalis & Pastoral Cushites (including the proto-Cushites) as a whole were very clan-based kinship societies.We didn’t pick this up from Bedouins considering Bedouins never came to our shores mostly the settled Agrarian Yemenis who are not as tribal as the actual true Arabic speaking Bedouins of the Arabian Peninsula.This clan system is simply a shared system between nomadic Cushites & nomadic Semites.

Either way artisans are found in each haplogroup and share kinship with all Somalis, love it or hate. By no choice of their own they are stuck being Somali.

I have nothing against the Gabooye community and I fight back against ignorants who speak ill of them irl.So far tho, the Gabooye clans mostly seem to be among Darood branches & the Southern Branch of E-Y1637.I haven’t seen Gabooye matching with us Habar Awal for example.So to make a blank statement that Gabooye can be found in every single noble clan is just false.They can be found in some but not all
Samaal 5/4/2023 3:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Axmed Gurey was Habar Magaadle, the Imam who you are probably referring too was neither Somali (let alone Hawiye) nor was he Harari (medieval migrants fleeing the Oromo expansions from Sidama inhabited areas as proven by their Sidamic substratum) and definitely not Arab as he was never mentioned to be Arab by the Futuh chronicler.He seem to be an outsider to all these groups (Harla,Somalis,Yemenis,Maghrebis,Arab Sharifs etc).The Futuh does mention Northern Horner Muslims settling in the Ifat Sultanate during the time of Sultan Sa’ad-Din so maybe he came from them but unfortunately we will never know his confirmed ethnicity

He had a relative that was the Sultan of Shewa through the Imam’s mother and the Somali Geri Koombe chief was his brother-in-law. He definitely had political connections to various Horner groups.

I think this is just false, the most probable reason they weren’t fighting was because fighting was the responsibility of noble nomadic & semi-nomadic clans not the artisanal caste.Essentially Noble Somalis were the warrior caste

More Psuedo-science.Somalis & Pastoral Cushites (including the proto-Cushites) as a whole were very clan-based kinship societies.We didn’t pick this up from Bedouins considering Bedouins never came to our shores mostly the settled Agrarian Yemenis who are not as tribal as the actual true Arabic speaking Bedouins of the Arabian Peninsula.This clan system is simply a shared system between nomadic Cushites & nomadic Semites.

I have nothing against the Gabooye community and I fight back against ignorants who speak ill of them irl.So far tho, the Gabooye clans mostly seem to be among Darood branches & the Southern Branch of E-Y1637.I haven’t seen Gabooye matching with us Habar Awal for example.So to make a blank statement that Gabooye can be found in every single noble clan is just false.They can be found in some but not all

The results touted as Darod on SDPP list are inaccurate.

If you analyse the results you will see fake clan names and there are people who have already been exposed as claiming multiple clans that have submitted their results. The only thing we can do at this point, is ask the DNA testing crowd to meet in real life and then once their clan verifies their existence, do testing. Our dear sister SDPP and her friends add their results to the clans that they work for. This does not make them Daarood. If my employer is called Jackson, I cannot call myself a son of Jackson.
SDPP 5/4/2023 3:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Carab Salax are 100% Mehri. No doubt.

Yes that is what I thought too and still believe. Arab salax I’ve seen on 23andme are J1 and a sample on yfull too. I think both these test are Yaxar as they came up for one another on FTDNA and no ones else.

FTDNA 37 markers isn’t as accurate as the deeper analysis but typically matches at 37 marker can be close to accurate and high chance you’ll most likely end up close on the yfull, maybe not the same clade but near. There has been cases though for older groups of Somalis to match with Somalis from all clans and later with the upgrade connect to those who are closer.
drobbah 5/4/2023 3:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

The results touted as Darod on SDPP list are inaccurate.

If you analyse the results you will see fake clan names and there are people who have already been exposed as claiming multiple clans that have submitted their results. The only thing we can do at this point, is ask the DNA testing crowd to meet in real life and then once their clan verifies their existence, do testing. Our dear sister SDPP and her friends add their results to the clans that they work for. This does not make them Daarood. If my employer is called Jackson, I cannot call myself a son of Jackson.

When they cluster in the Darood subclade with actual confirmed Darood while also claiming to have Darood origin.That makes their case of them originally being Darood stronger.It’s like the Isaaq clan, Dir always claimed us Isaaqs were Dir while Isaaqs denied it.Many Isaaqs (except HA & Arap) ended up in the Dir subclade, science + oral history lined up pretty good and strengthen the Dir claim that many Isaaqs were indeed of Dir origin.When genetics & oral history both come to the same conclusion it is pretty hard to refute it walaal
SDPP 5/4/2023 3:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Axmed Gurey was Habar Magaadle, the Imam who you are probably referring too was neither Somali (let alone Hawiye) nor was he Harari (medieval migrants fleeing the Oromo expansions from Sidama inhabited areas as proven by their Sidamic substratum) and definitely not Arab as he was never mentioned to be Arab by the Futuh chronicler.He seem to be an outsider to all these groups (Harla,Somalis,Yemenis,Maghrebis,Arab Sharifs etc).The Futuh does mention Northern Horner Muslims settling in the Ifat Sultanate during the time of Sultan Sa’ad-Din so maybe he came from them but unfortunately we will never know his confirmed ethnicity

He had a relative that was the Sultan of Shewa through the Imam’s mother and the Somali Geri Koombe chief was his brother-in-law. He definitely had political connections to various Horner groups.

I think this is just false, the most probable reason they weren’t fighting was because fighting was the responsibility of noble nomadic & semi-nomadic clans not the artisanal caste.Essentially Noble Somalis were the warrior caste

More Psuedo-science.Somalis & Pastoral Cushites (including the proto-Cushites) as a whole were very clan-based kinship societies.We didn’t pick this up from Bedouins considering Bedouins never came to our shores mostly the settled Agrarian Yemenis who are not as tribal as the actual true Arabic speaking Bedouins of the Arabian Peninsula.This clan system is simply a shared system between nomadic Cushites & nomadic Semites.

I have nothing against the Gabooye community and I fight back against ignorants who speak ill of them irl.So far tho, the Gabooye clans mostly seem to be among Darood branches & the Southern Branch of E-Y1637.I haven’t seen Gabooye matching with us Habar Awal for example.So to make a blank statement that Gabooye can be found in every single noble clan is just false.They can be found in some but not all

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the input. We do have a Baxaar Guleed Birmaal affiliated on the T-BY181210 clade who are close to some Isaacs and Gudabirsi. Can you remind me where you are on the yfull tree?
SDPP 5/4/2023 3:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

The results touted as Darod on SDPP list are inaccurate.

If you analyse the results you will see fake clan names and there are people who have already been exposed as claiming multiple clans that have submitted their results. The only thing we can do at this point, is ask the DNA testing crowd to meet in real life and then once their clan verifies their existence, do testing. Our dear sister SDPP and her friends add their results to the clans that they work for. This does not make them Daarood. If my employer is called Jackson, I cannot call myself a son of Jackson.

How about your bring some Somali groups outside of E-8081 or your own qabiil? Then we can talk or meet in person if you’d like.
Garaacad 5/4/2023 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It would be nice to see Xawaadle results. How reliable are the 37 mark tests? I heard from Garaacad and others they are not 100% accurate. What’s up with that? I believe the Hiiraab brothers know who is Gorgaarte. I know of Silcis Gorgaarte and Wadalaan Gorgaarte.

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes that is what I thought too and still believe. Arab salax I’ve seen on 23andme are J1 and a sample on yfull too. I think both these test are Yaxar as they came up for one another on FTDNA and no ones else.

FTDNA 37 markers isn’t as accurate as the deeper analysis but typically matches at 37 marker can be close to accurate and high chance you’ll most likely end up close on the yfull, maybe not the same clade but near. There has been cases though for older groups of Somalis to match with Somalis from all clans and later with the upgrade connect to those who are closer.

E-Y18637 carriers share some mutations on their Y-Chromosomes, which complicates the analysis. The Xawaadle needs to go onto Y67 or higher.

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the input. We do have a Baxaar Guleed Birmaal affiliated on the T-BY181210 clade who are close to some Isaacs and Gudabirsi. Can you remind me where you are on the yfull tree?

id:YF108309 is Tumaal but shares a 350-year-old TMCRA with a Samaroon. No, other Gabooye is on that tree.
drobbah 5/4/2023 3:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the input. We do have a Baxaar Guleed Birmaal affiliated on the T-BY181210 clade who are close to some Isaacs and Gudabirsi. Can you remind me where you are on the yfull tree?

I’m in the tree matching a fellow Sacad Muuse (I’m the one with the Ethio flag) & an upstream of Ciise Muuse.

I also thought the Baxar Guleed T-M70 sample was Gabooye but the Samarone are claiming they are actually of recent Samarone origin.Considering he has a 350 ybp with a Samarone from Awdal it does check out

Habar Awal medieval clade

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y219427/
SDPP 5/4/2023 4:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I’m in the tree matching a fellow Sacad Muuse (I’m the one with the Ethio flag) & an upstream of Ciise Muuse.

I also thought the Baxar Guleed T-M70 sample was Gabooye but the Samarone are claiming they are actually of recent Samarone origin.Considering he has a 350 ybp with a Samarone from Awdal it does check out

Habar Awal medieval clade

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y219427/

I thought you were there but couldn’t find your clade based on the one listed on your profile. Thanks for clarifying.

As far as Baxar Guleed T-M70 are stigmatized for being Birmaal but also have a Samarone lineage story. Same for Eidlee Guleed. The upgraded kit which is the sample on yfull lives with the Ogaden Southern Somalia and in the NFD areas etc. We have another Baxaar Guleed on FTDNA at 37markers who lives in gabilee and maroodi jeex. A Eidlee Guleed sample is on its way from Hargeisa.
drobbah 5/4/2023 4:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I thought you were there but couldn’t find your clade based on the one listed on your profile. Thanks for clarifying.

As far as Baxar Guleed T-M70 consider themselves stigmatized for being Birmaal but also have a Samarone lineage story. Same for Eidlee Guleed. One of the upgraded kits which is the sample of yfull lives with the Ogaden and their family hold positions in the NFD areas etc and are well off. We have another Baxaar Guleed on FTDNA at 37markers. A Eidlee Guleed sample is on its way from Hargeisa.

Isn’t there another Baxaar Guleed who belongs to Haplogroup A? I think I’ve seen it in the ftdna Somali DNA project
Garaacad 5/4/2023 4:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I thought you were there but couldn’t find your clade based on the one listed on your profile. Thanks for clarifying.

As far as Baxar Guleed T-M70 are stigmatized for being Birmaal but also have a Samarone lineage story. Same for Eidlee Guleed. The upgraded kit which is the sample on yfull lives with the Ogaden Southern Somalia and in the NFD areas etc. We have another Baxaar Guleed on FTDNA at 37markers who lives in gabilee and maroodi jeex. A Eidlee Guleed sample is on its way from Hargeisa.

Is the new guy from Hiiraan (id:YF117900) Gabooye and not Hawiye? I thought he was Hawiye, but I have a feeling he is not now.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L208/
SDPP 5/4/2023 4:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Isn’t there another Baxaar Guleed who belongs to Haplogroup A? I think I’ve seen it in the ftdna Somali DNA project

We thought he was Canbuur Guleed turns out he was has a oromo father and his mother is canbuur. The canbuur Guleed of which one is on yfull are E-V32 so far.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 4:26:00 AM

Sdpp you are right, the imam was Karanle from his father side and Harla on his mother side. He was close to the Somalis via his father and was close to the Harla through his mother. Karanle’s history is far greater than imam. Before Harar you had Hobat which was a confederate state that was allied with Ifat in the 13th century. It’s where the old Hawiye used to crown their Garaads that eventually produced the line of Imam Ahmed gurey.

Awsa chronicles mention imam mohamed gasa hes a distant nephew of gragne seen in mekurias lineage tree, he founded awsa sultanate the precursor to modern day afar mudayto imamate,

Awsa was founded after the imam was killed and his brothers and sons after wasiir cabaas left harar to form a state in aussa modern day afar region in eritrea and ethiopia, by the 18th century they got swallowed by afar dynasties that even took hold of zaila at one point whilst they allowed hawiye to remain as judges in zeila until the pro british ottomans brought an isaaq to lead as sultan

I believe the Hawiye Harari guy that Burton met was a descendant of the earlier Harar/Awssa Karanle rulers, it explains why they held a dynasty of judges in a town that was clearly surrounded by Gadabursi, Essa and Isaaq in the 19th century.

Afars brokered some kind of deals with Karanle to have them there, possibly because they needed Karanle cooperation in the Awssa areas and weren't familiar with other Somalis, they bordered Issa and Gadabursi for a long time but i think rivalry began with Afar in Sharmarkes time he killed Abu Bakr.

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It might have even been by ottoman permission to have Karanle there and not necessarily the Afar who were anti Somali

Ffs you have the entire eastern half of Harar’s kebele named after Irir Hawiye. People literally go to visit Sheikh Hawiye burial place at Hobat.
SDPP 5/4/2023 4:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Is the new guy from Hiiraan (id:YF117900) Gabooye and not Hawiye? I thought he was Hawiye, but I have a feeling he is not now.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-L208/

Not sure about that kit. Baxar Guleed is kit YF108309.
SDPP 5/4/2023 4:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Sdpp you are right, the imam was Karanle from his father side and Harla on his mother side. He was close to the Somalis via his father and was close to the Harla through his mother. Karanle’s history is far greater than imam. Before Harar you had Hobat which was a confederate state that was allied with Ifat in the 13th century. It’s where the old Hawiye used to crown their Garaads that eventually produced the line of Imam Ahmed gurey.

Awsa chronicles mention imam mohamed gasa hes a distant nephew of gragne seen in mekurias lineage tree, he founded awsa sultanate the precursor to modern day afar mudayto imamate,

Awsa was founded after the imam was killed and his brothers and sons after wasiir cabaas left harar to form a state in aussa modern day afar region in eritrea and ethiopia, by the 18th century they got swallowed by afar dynasties that even took hold of zaila at one point whilst they allowed hawiye to remain as judges in zeila until the pro british ottomans brought an isaaq to lead as sultan

I believe the Hawiye Harari guy that Burton met was a descendant of the earlier Harar/Awssa Karanle rulers, it explains why they held a dynasty of judges in a town that was clearly surrounded by Gadabursi, Essa and Isaaq in the 19th century.

Afars brokered some kind of deals with Karanle to have them there, possibly because they needed Karanle cooperation in the Awssa areas and weren't familiar with other Somalis, they bordered Issa and Gadabursi for a long time but i think rivalry began with Afar in Sharmarkes time he killed Abu Bakr.

[Bad Link]

It might have even been by ottoman permission to have Karanle there and not necessarily the Afar who were anti Somali

Ffs you have the entire eastern half of Harar’s kebele named after Irir Hawiye. People literally go to visit Sheikh Hawiye burial place at Hobat.

Thank you for the useful information. I am happy to hear that as Somalis we have a lot to be proud of! We are mapping things out so we don’t lose and actually make use of the little we do have for future generations. As they say when brothers fight to that death, a stranger inherits their home.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 4:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thank you for the useful information. I am happy to hear that as Somalis we have a lot to be proud of! We are mapping things out so we don’t lose and actually make use of the little we do have for future generations. As they say when brothers fight to the death, a stranger inherits their home.

Thank you sister. The irony is that the history of Adal which includes the imams family is literally being preserved by Allah through the Amhara elite who we were fighting for 8 centuries. Any thing regarding the imam or Adal goes through the federal republic of Ethiopia. The books are being safeguarded in the Addis Ababa National library. The Amhara know who burned their churches and don’t fabricate history on the same way us Somalis do. We would rather give our history to Arabs and Turks instead of accepting it for our Somali brother
SDPP 5/4/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you sister. The irony is that the history of Adal which includes the imams family is literally being preserved by Allah through the Amhara elite who we were fighting for 8 centuries. Any thing regarding the imam or Adal goes through the federal republic of Ethiopia. The books are being safeguarded in the Addis Ababa National library. The Amhara know who burned their churches and don’t fabricate history on the same way us Somalis do. We would rather give our history to Arabs and Turks instead of accepting it for our Somali brother

As much as I would love if we safe kept our own history I am happy that it is safe. Don’t you wonder why some Ethiopians claim him as well. I know there were Muslim ones fighting alongside the Imam under the banner of Islam. Is it a love for him that does this? I hope we can get to the bottom of his family kinda odd how it’s up for debate.
Saeed 5/4/2023 6:29:00 AM

@Bulletproofpride I agree with you but chill with the insults sxb, your comment will just be deleted.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 7:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

@Bulletproofpride I agree with you but chill with the insults sxb, your comment will just be deleted.

I apologise for the harsh words and getting of topic. I like to stick to DNA research. However I can’t help but feel insulted when someone literally denies the existence of an entire branch of my clan and treats them like some mystical people that disappeared in the past. Italian and British travellers like Richard Burton wrote extensively about the imams family Reer Ibrahim and the Karanle at large. If that wasn’t enough, even the noble Geri Koombe leader and brother in law of the imam, Garaad mataan came from a lineage of Garaads that are exclusively called Bah Hawiye and live with the Karanle till this day around the vicinity of Harar. Heck even the 1500 horses that participated in the wars were recorded with the beesha’s signature on them.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 7:18:00 AM

Anyways let’s discuss genetics now. My Gidir friend is ready for the test but it’s only happening when the next discount comes along. It went back to £249 unfortunately. Having him tested and match my results would be one of the greatest discoveries ever.
Administrator 5/4/2023 7:47:00 AM

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SDPP 5/4/2023 7:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Anyways let’s discuss genetics now. My Gidir friend is ready for the test but it’s only happening when the next discount comes along. It went back to £249 unfortunately. Having him tested and match my results would be one of the greatest discoveries ever.

Yeah we were going to order 2 test for Harla and Gheri but it went up on us too. Wondering when it’ll go back to $149 again. It would be good to have another habargidir on there. Do you think he’ll match with the other habargidir on there or you?
Saeed 5/4/2023 9:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yeah we were going to order 2 test for Harla and Gheri but it went up on us too. Wondering when it’ll go back to $149 again. It would be good to have another habargidir on there. Do you think he’ll match with the other habargidir on there or you?

Gidir Karanle, not Habar Gidir.

Other Habar Gidir will match me.
SDPP 5/4/2023 12:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Gidir Karanle, not Habar Gidir.

Other Habar Gidir will match me.

Got it!
SDPP 5/4/2023 6:06:00 PM

Updated most of the grouped Birmaal to reflect their occupational connect and family oral genealogy on FTDNA. Still working on some ungrouped ones.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 10:23:00 PM

@Farjanomar @Saeed @ Mujahid Nur

Is it possible to get the Murusade over on FTDNA to join Yfull? I say this because it will help get a better TMRCA estimate or no?
Samaal 5/4/2023 10:36:00 PM

Gabooye clans are not occupational groups. They are clans who happen to do certain manual work.

@sdpp Are you confusing Somalia with Oromia?
SDPP 5/4/2023 10:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Gabooye clans are not occupational groups. They are clans who happen to do certain manual work.

@sdpp Are you confusing Somalia with Oromia?

Go ask the ones who do the work what they think before answering for them. Some fall under being a clan like Muse Dhiri Dir, Madhiban, Hawle Qasiim, Baxaar Guleed but the term Tumaal/Birmaal/Blacksmith is clearly occupational. Can certain groups create guilds and unions like you see at places of employment etc, yes. Birmaal is a confederation of different clans that came under the title of Birmaal. Some identify with their occupational title while others prefer their paternal line. Which one does Allah want you to follow? Your job as a taxi driver or barista or doctor or your fathers line? I labeled based on the wants and need of those who are tested. If you want to bring some test go ahead and do so. It is an open space for all who want to learn more and collaborate with others.
Samaal 5/4/2023 11:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Go ask the ones who do the work what they think before answering for them. Some fall under being a clan like Muse Dhiri Dir, Madhiban, Hawle Qasiim, Baxaar Guleed but the term Tumaal/Birmaal/Blacksmith is clearly occupational. Can certain groups create guilds and unions like you see at places of employment etc, yes. Birmaal is a confederation of different clans that came under the title of Birmaal. Some identify with their occupational title while others prefer their paternal line. Which one does Allah want you to follow? Your job as a taxi driver or barista or doctor or your fathers line? I labeled based on the wants and need of those who are tested. If you want to bring some test go ahead and do so. It is an open space for all who want to learn more and collaborate with others.

Allah wants people to claim the name of their fathers, not the name of the man their father worked for.

This is why I asked why you want to make your people look subservient or like they were owned by other clans on spreadsheets. We know that clans like Muse Dhiriye Baxar, Hawle are part of an official clan whose name is Madhiban. Gaboye Brothers and sisters can do what they want, nobody can go to their house and make them write the name of their actual ancestor. Nevertheless sister, people will ask questions, particularly as this becomes more common knowledge.

Madhiban, Tumaalo,Yibro, Yaxar are recognised clans in Somalia. Not work unions or confederations.
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 11:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

As much as I would love if we safe kept our own history I am happy that it is safe. Don’t you wonder why some Ethiopians claim him as well. I know there were Muslim ones fighting alongside the Imam under the banner of Islam. Is it a love for him that does this? I hope we can get to the bottom of his family kinda odd how it’s up for debate.

It’s kind of safeguarded by us Somalis in a way. The Ethiopian government before nationalising the history of Ifat, Adal etc in the 20th century needed help from Harari scholars to get it’s accuracy. Some of the greatest imams and sheikhs from Harar were Somalis. A great example would be sh Muhammad Khalifa a Hawiye who was the imam of the grand mosque of Harar that got converted to a church by the Abbysinians. He was stabbed with his own sword outside the mosque because of refusal to leave when Meneliks army ordered him to surrender. He bled a lot, giving him the title “Cano Baxey”.

The non Somali claim Imam Ahmed out of love for the imam which is perfectly fine. The Hararis and other Muslim communities know he is Karanle and therefore claim Karanle were not Somalis initially but became so afterwards due to assimilation. In fact the Hararis have traditions claiming they were of Karanle descent.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 5/4/2023 11:22:00 PM

When is the exact date I will get my TMRCA and a proper clade assigned to me?
Saeed 5/4/2023 11:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Farjanomar @Saeed @ Mujahid Nur

Is it possible to get the Murusade over on FTDNA to join Yfull? I say this because it will help get a better TMRCA estimate or no?

Do you want to do it for him? I think Libaax Joore said you'd need to pay $100 to download his raw data and then $45 for the YFull fee. I don't think he's interested in doing it.
Saeed 5/4/2023 11:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When is the exact date I will get my TMRCA and a proper clade assigned to me?

Soon, sometime this month probably since the last update was March.
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 12:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Do you want to do it for him? I think Libaax Joore said you'd need to pay $100 to download his raw data and then $45 for the YFull fee. I don't think he's interested in doing it.

Damn that’s a lot. I had a 2nd thought. I’d rather spend the £100 on my Gidir friend when the price gets discounted to £149 so he will only have to pay £49. His results are more important I believe than this guy on FTDNA who is a close relative of mine. He wont help with that much with the TMRCA I believe compared to the GIdir guy.
SDPP 5/5/2023 12:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s kind of safeguarded by us Somalis in a way. The Ethiopian government before nationalising the history of Ifat, Adal etc in the 20th century needed help from Harari scholars to get it’s accuracy. Some of the greatest imams and sheikhs from Harar were Somalis. A great example would be sh Muhammad Khalifa a Hawiye who was the imam of the grand mosque of Harar that got converted to a church by the Abbysinians. He was stabbed with his own sword outside the mosque because of refusal to leave when Meneliks army ordered him to surrender. He bled a lot, giving him the title “Cano Baxey”.

The non Somali claim Imam Ahmed out of love for the imam which is perfectly fine. The Hararis and other Muslim communities know he is Karanle and therefore claim Karanle were not Somalis initially but became so afterwards due to assimilation. In fact the Hararis have traditions claiming they were of Karanle descent.

[Bad Link]

Thanks for the information. I heard a lot of history is hidden in Harar. Would love to see the varied Harari mosques, Somalia influences left behind, and the autosomal and YDNA results found in the vibrant area. I’m sure it would be what we find in Somalis but even more diverse. This video was pretty interesting to watch. Watch when you are able. https://youtu.be/4GSErYeJ2Gw
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 12:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Soon, sometime this month probably since the last update was March.

Hey Saeed, wouldn’t it be more confusing if this Gidir guy gets a complete different result compared to mine and yours? Just the thought of it makes me question a lot of things kkk
SDPP 5/5/2023 12:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When is the exact date I will get my TMRCA and a proper clade assigned to me?

I think typically it takes about a month or a bit longer. The other guys probably know better than me though but that’s what I have experienced.
Garaacad 5/5/2023 12:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Damn that’s a lot. I had a 2nd thought. I’d rather spend the £100 on my Gidir friend when the price gets discounted to £149 so he will only have to pay £49. His results are more important I believe than this guy on FTDNA who is a close relative of mine. He wont help with that much with the TMRCA I believe compared to the GIdir guy.

Get him to test for Y18637 on YSEQ.
Saeed 5/5/2023 12:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey Saeed, wouldn’t it be more confusing if this Gidir guy gets a complete different result compared to mine and yours? Just the thought of it makes me question a lot of things kkk

That would be interesting but he'll probably get the same result as you.
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 12:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Get him to test for Y18637 on YSEQ.

The Murusade on FTDNA? I have no idea how to get hold of him. Nur ibn mujahid has contact with them I believe.
drobbah 5/5/2023 1:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Samaal

Allah wants people to claim the name of their fathers, not the name of the man their father worked for.

This is why I asked why you want to make your people look subservient or like they were owned by other clans on spreadsheets. We know that clans like Muse Dhiriye Baxar, Hawle are part of an official clan whose name is Madhiban. Gaboye Brothers and sisters can do what they want, nobody can go to their house and make them write the name of their actual ancestor. Nevertheless sister, people will ask questions, particularly as this becomes more common knowledge.

Madhiban, Tumaalo,Yibro, Yaxar are recognised clans in Somalia. Not work unions or confederations.

Most tribes are political alliances of various subgroups that later on created a united clan myths to unite the various groups into one clan.So far besides the J-P58 Gabooye have a medieval clade, the other E-V32 Gabooye clearly belong to many different groups.

So far the only deep-y confirmed Somali clans are:

1. Habar Awal (not Isaaq)

2. Dir (including many Isaaqs)

3.Darood (excluding MJ & Dashiishe)

4. Majerteen (not Darood)
Garaacad 5/5/2023 3:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Murusade on FTDNA? I have no idea how to get hold of him. Nur ibn mujahid has contact with them I believe.

I was talking about your Gidir friend.
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 3:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I was talking about your Gidir friend.

Why not nebula whole genome sequencing like I did? Is that not more safe and precise without the need to upgrade? What if he turns out to be J1 or a E-V32 that is non E-Y18629? What do you think?
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 3:56:00 AM

Hey Mujahid get one of your two israfeel friend to contact me. I will pay for at least one of them to get on Yfull.
Garaacad 5/5/2023 4:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why not nebula whole genome sequencing like I did? Is that not more safe and precise without the need to upgrade? What if he turns out to be J1 or a E-V32 that is non E-Y18629? What do you think?

YSEQ isn't a competitor to Nebula. It allows people to cheaply test for SNPs with a high confidence rating on YFull.

He is testing for the E-Y18637 mutation on its own. We'll be able to tell if he is negative for E-Y18629.
Saeed 5/5/2023 5:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey Mujahid get one of your two israfeel friend to contact me. I will pay for at least one of them to get on Yfull.

Idk how it works but is it possible to pay the $45 fee for the one that had already uploaded to YFull before? That way you wouldn't need to spend $100 on the other one.
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 5:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Idk how it works but is it possible to pay the $45 fee for the one that had already uploaded to YFull before? That way you wouldn't need to spend $100 on the other one.

Yes I’m ready. Where is he? Mujahid knows I believe.
Bulletproofpride 5/5/2023 5:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

YSEQ isn't a competitor to Nebula. It allows people to cheaply test for SNPs with a high confidence rating on YFull.

He is testing for the E-Y18637 mutation on its own. We'll be able to tell if he is negative for E-Y18629.

So we just testing for the E-Y18637 mutation only? If he turns out to be positive for it will he be assigned the exact position on the tree like E-BY8081 , BY8100 etc? If so how much is the cost of the test in itself?
Turqoise 5/5/2023 7:24:00 AM

Ello lads, newbie here. Gonna try and binge through this thread
SDPP 5/5/2023 8:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Ello lads, newbie here. Gonna try and binge through this thread

Good luck

Welcome, for the most part it’ll be useful!
Saeed 5/5/2023 8:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Ello lads, newbie here. Gonna try and binge through this thread

What is your clan?
Turqoise 5/5/2023 8:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

What is your clan?

Duduble. Is this Saeed from discord/forums?
Saeed 5/5/2023 8:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Duduble. Is this Saeed from discord/forums?

Yes, good to see you on here brother, hope you end up doing a Nebula test eventually
Turqoise 5/5/2023 9:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Yes, good to see you on here brother, hope you end up doing a Nebula test eventually

InshaAllah bro, definitely need to represent tolka
s1abx 5/5/2023 12:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Duduble. Is this Saeed from discord/forums?

I think you are that Onkowa guy.
Turqoise 5/5/2023 6:26:00 PM

Yep that's me
s1abx 5/5/2023 10:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Yep that's me

Welcome ina abti. The K1 gave it away. Unfortunately you missed the $149 test price. It’s back to $249 now.
Garaacad 5/5/2023 11:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Welcome ina abti. The K1 gave it away. Unfortunately you missed the $149 test price. It’s back to $249 now.

He can always test for BY192438 on YSEQ. It's an SNP of E-FT77328 on YFull.

[Bad Link]
Turqoise 5/6/2023 12:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Welcome ina abti. The K1 gave it away. Unfortunately you missed the $149 test price. It’s back to $249 now.

Hopefully it never goes any higher
s1abx 5/6/2023 12:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Hopefully it never goes any higher

You'll have to pay another 75$ or so to get your results due to an imposed mandatory yearly subscription. I would advise testing for the SNP that @Garacad said. It is only 18$ and you will get your result much quicker in 4-6 weeks if I am correct, luckily Saeed has tested and found out the Hiraab sub-clade and any further one the sons of Maxamud Hiraab may be.
Turqoise 5/6/2023 3:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You'll have to pay another 75$ or so to get your results due to an imposed mandatory yearly subscription. I would advise testing for the SNP that @Garacad said. It is only 18$ and you will get your result much quicker in 4-6 weeks if I am correct, luckily Saeed has tested and found out the Hiraab sub-clade and any further one the sons of Maxamud Hiraab may be.

Many thanks, I'll go with that option instead
Mcmoud72 5/6/2023 7:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Duduble. Is this Saeed from discord/forums?

Walaahi It's great to have a Duduble brother here, welcome brother.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 5/6/2023 9:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Most tribes are political alliances of various subgroups that later on created a united clan myths to unite the various groups into one clan.So far besides the J-P58 Gabooye have a medieval clade, the other E-V32 Gabooye clearly belong to many different groups.

So far the only deep-y confirmed Somali clans are:

1. Habar Awal (not Isaaq)

2. Dir (including many Isaaqs)

3.Darood (excluding MJ & Dashiishe)

4. Majerteen (not Darood)

Ogaden will be the biggest confederacy, I don't think we will ever get the bottom line, especially when the rer ugaas Warfa have formed their own sub clade.
Turqoise 5/6/2023 10:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Walaahi It's great to have a Duduble brother here, welcome brother.

Happy to be here brother
SDPP 5/6/2023 3:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Ogaden will be the biggest confederacy, I don't think we will ever get the bottom line, especially when the rer ugaas Warfa have formed their own sub clade.

Have we learned the new kit belongs to another reer warfa? Last time I knew we were not sure who it was.
farjanomar 5/6/2023 6:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Have we learned the new kit belongs to another reer warfa? Last time I knew we were not sure who it was.

I don't think anyone knows yet.
farjanomar 5/6/2023 6:55:00 PM

Someone at the T Somali thread has confirmed the sample is his cousin (Dir?Surre)
farjanomar 5/6/2023 6:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Duduble. Is this Saeed from discord/forums?

Welcome bro.
farjanomar 5/6/2023 7:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Most tribes are political alliances of various subgroups that later on created a united clan myths to unite the various groups into one clan.So far besides the J-P58 Gabooye have a medieval clade, the other E-V32 Gabooye clearly belong to many different groups.

So far the only deep-y confirmed Somali clans are:

1. Habar Awal (not Isaaq)

2. Dir (including many Isaaqs)

3.Darood (excluding MJ & Dashiishe)

4. Majerteen (not Darood)

It would be nice to have another Dashiihe sample to get full confirmation.
farjanomar 5/6/2023 7:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

Ogaden will be the biggest confederacy, I don't think we will ever get the bottom line, especially when the rer ugaas Warfa have formed their own sub clade.

Majority of of Ogaden will be E-Y163949. Their were two Ogaden who got tested with National Geographic in 2000s. The were all positive E-Y163949.

[Bad Link]
s1abx 5/6/2023 8:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Majority of of Ogaden will be E-Y163949. Their were two Ogaden who got tested with National Geographic in 2000s. The were all positive E-Y163949.

[Bad Link]

How can you tell? I only see a list of numbers. There are also entries for Xawaadle and Sacad, would it be possible to work out their sub-clade from that too? According to that there is a E-V32 Gadarbursi/Samaroon and Reer Ow Xassan too.
Bulletproofpride 5/7/2023 1:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Majority of of Ogaden will be E-Y163949. Their were two Ogaden who got tested with National Geographic in 2000s. The were all positive E-Y163949.

[Bad Link]

Great info. Is this legit?
Bulletproofpride 5/7/2023 1:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How can you tell? I only see a list of numbers. There are also entries for Xawaadle and Sacad, would it be possible to work out their sub-clade from that too? According to that there is a E-V32 Gadarbursi/Samaroon and Reer Ow Xassan too.

Good points to think about. I believe it’s better to wait. An Ogaden sample with FTDNA is due soon. A leelkase is on the way as well.
farjanomar 5/7/2023 2:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How can you tell? I only see a list of numbers. There are also entries for Xawaadle and Sacad, would it be possible to work out their sub-clade from that too? According to that there is a E-V32 Gadarbursi/Samaroon and Reer Ow Xassan too.

I can tell because, i learned a little bit of how to read STRs. (Not expert yet). Long story short. National Geography did a big YDNA Project, they sampled many communities that included some Somalis. After the results were published, Some guy named James collected the results and organized them in groups according to Clan affiliation. I think he did job knowing we did not have a lot of tested Somalis to compare with like now.

Note: James Could be Somali or maybe not. He is the owner of abtirsi site.
farjanomar 5/7/2023 2:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Great info. Is this legit?

Yes. Some of the People took a full big y test and some did not continue with more tests.
s1abx 5/7/2023 2:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I can tell because, i learned a little bit of how to read STRs. (Not expert yet). Long story short. National Geography did a big YDNA Project, they sampled many communities that included some Somalis. After the results were published, Some guy named James collected the results and organized them in groups according to Clan affiliation. I think he did job knowing we did not have a lot of tested Somalis to compare with like now.

Note: James Could be Somali or maybe not. He is the owner of abtirsi site.

How does one read STRs? Can you also try read the Sacad STR, I am really interested in that one.
farjanomar 5/7/2023 4:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How does one read STRs? Can you also try read the Sacad STR, I am really interested in that one.

Read the FTDNA Somali Project spreadsheet or E-M35 Project and Compare the STRs #s and see if the sub groups have unique #s that they share.

You can only do that with big Somali branches coz there is a lot samples (others may know more), For example:

The three subclades of EY18629: E-y163949 has STR Allele DYS388-13 which the other two do not have. And E-BY155996 has DYS393-12 which the other

branches are negative for.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 5/7/2023 4:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Read the FTDNA Somali Project spreadsheet or E-M35 Project and Compare the STRs #s and see if the sub groups have unique #s that they share.

You can only do that with big Somali branches coz there is a lot samples (others may know more), For example:

The three subclades of EY18629: E-y163949 has STR Allele DYS388-13 which the other two do not have. And E-BY155996 has DYS393-12 which the other

branches are negative for.

I can't view it. Can you copy and past them on this page? Or you can tell us the sub clans rhar are positive for STR Allele DYS388-13. I'd like to know which Ogaden sub clan ��
farjanomar 5/7/2023 4:38:00 AM

You can use the E-M35 project instead, most somalis are there. [Bad Link]
Saeed 5/7/2023 4:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Most tribes are political alliances of various subgroups that later on created a united clan myths to unite the various groups into one clan.So far besides the J-P58 Gabooye have a medieval clade, the other E-V32 Gabooye clearly belong to many different groups.

So far the only deep-y confirmed Somali clans are:

1. Habar Awal (not Isaaq)

2. Dir (including many Isaaqs)

3.Darood (excluding MJ & Dashiishe)

4. Majerteen (not Darood)

You forgot Hiraab
Bulletproofpride 5/7/2023 5:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

You forgot Hiraab

Yes hiiraab is confirmed. This Duduble brother will form a 3rd branch. And maybe the sheekhaal brother the 4th and last branch. The next thing for hiiraab now is to find out who is their closest relative. The RX is far removed and I believe there should be others closer. Best thing is to find another Gurgaarte or maybe a Gugundhabe
s1abx 5/7/2023 5:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes hiiraab is confirmed. This Duduble brother will form a 3rd branch. And maybe the sheekhaal brother the 4th and last branch. The next thing for hiiraab now is to find out who is their closest relative. The RX is far removed and I believe there should be others closer. Best thing is to find another Gurgaarte or maybe a Gugundhabe

Gurgarte��Got a little to used to saying Hassan Gurgurte.
s1abx 5/7/2023 5:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Read the FTDNA Somali Project spreadsheet or E-M35 Project and Compare the STRs #s and see if the sub groups have unique #s that they share.

You can only do that with big Somali branches coz there is a lot samples (others may know more), For example:

The three subclades of EY18629: E-y163949 has STR Allele DYS388-13 which the other two do not have. And E-BY155996 has DYS393-12 which the other

branches are negative for.

Read them if you mean comparing their STRs etc if they got the same one going on. Seems that the Hawiye branch all link closely until one of the Madhiban samples cuts off then the other one then the Murusade then the Sacad. Xawaadle and Leelkase don't match at all unless they're fake samples.
Saeed 5/7/2023 6:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes hiiraab is confirmed. This Duduble brother will form a 3rd branch. And maybe the sheekhaal brother the 4th and last branch. The next thing for hiiraab now is to find out who is their closest relative. The RX is far removed and I believe there should be others closer. Best thing is to find another Gurgaarte or maybe a Gugundhabe

Yh I hope @Turqoise still ends up doing Nebula when it comes back down to $149 because it would be better for him to upload to the YFull tree so that we can see tmrca for our clans.

I want another Habar Gidir result as well so I can get my own subclade
Bulletproofpride 5/7/2023 8:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Yh I hope @Turqoise still ends up doing Nebula when it comes back down to $149 because it would be better for him to upload to the YFull tree so that we can see tmrca for our clans.

I want another Habar Gidir result as well so I can get my own subclade

Why do you still have the *sign next to your clade? Your no different than me who is waiting for a subclade. At least I have one on Yfull live. You don’t. How come?
Saeed 5/7/2023 8:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why do you still have the *sign next to your clade? Your no different than me who is waiting for a subclade. At least I have one on Yfull live. You don’t. How come?

They matched you with the previous Murusade guy and gave you a new subclade based on that, meanwhile I am the only Habar Gidir on there so until another Habar Gidir uploads, they cannot give me anything more specific than E-FT77328 (Hiraab)
drobbah 5/7/2023 10:44:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

You forgot Hiraab

Where’s the Hiraab clade? And have the major subclans of Hiraab tested?
Bulletproofpride 5/8/2023 12:41:00 AM

Is there a E-BY8081 kit I can order for my Gidir friend? How much is it?
Jamson22 5/8/2023 2:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Is there a E-BY8081 kit I can order for my Gidir friend? How much is it?

If you're looking for WGS rather than YSEQ SNP testing, Dantelabs has a mother's day sale going on. $299 for everything + 1 yr membership + international shipping

https://us.dantelabs.com/ 'MOTHER' at checkout
Bulletproofpride 5/8/2023 2:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

If you're looking for WGS rather than YSEQ SNP testing, Dantelabs has a mother's day sale going on. $299 for everything + 1 yr membership + international shipping

https://us.dantelabs.com/ 'MOTHER' at checkout

Wow 299 is very expensive. I have tested already. I need a cheap test for my friend that is reliable to get him on Yfull. IS there a YSEQ for E-BY8081?
Jamson22 5/8/2023 3:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Wow 299 is very expensive. I have tested already. I need a cheap test for my friend that is reliable to get him on Yfull. IS there a YSEQ for E-BY8081?

The $299 is basically the same price as discounted Nebula at $149 sale and minimum 1 yr membership ($12.49*12 months). Not sure about the E-BY8081 SNPs.
Bulletproofpride 5/8/2023 3:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

The $299 is basically the same price as discounted Nebula at $149 sale and minimum 1 yr membership ($12.49*12 months). Not sure about the E-BY8081 SNPs.

Yeh but I can trick my friend to pay 149 and then he is forced to pay the rest to see his results. Convincing him to pay 299 is impossible.
Bulletproofpride 5/8/2023 3:18:00 AM

I think once I get my own sub clade within E-BY8081 will Yfull have sufficient information about the snp’s to test for it.
Saeed 5/8/2023 6:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Wow 299 is very expensive. I have tested already. I need a cheap test for my friend that is reliable to get him on Yfull. IS there a YSEQ for E-BY8081?

I don't think you can get on YFull with YSEQ, you need a full genome test for that.
Saeed 5/8/2023 6:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Where’s the Hiraab clade? And have the major subclans of Hiraab tested?

E-FT77328 is Hiraab so far with Abgaal and Habar Gidir under it, we're waiting for Sheekhaal Loobage and hopefully Duduble results too so if they match with us it's confirmed even more.
Mcmoud72 5/9/2023 8:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

E-FT77328 is Hiraab so far with Abgaal and Habar Gidir under it, we're waiting for Sheekhaal Loobage and hopefully Duduble results too so if they match with us it's confirmed even more.

Brother Said , Alxamdulilaah my kit is now in Stockholm, hopefully it will come to me ,may be, tomorrow.
Bulletproofpride 5/9/2023 11:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother Said , Alxamdulilaah my kit is now in Stockholm, hopefully it will come to me ,may be, tomorrow.

MashaAllah, are you Hawiye?
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 3:03:00 AM

Where is Mcmoud from?
Saeed 5/10/2023 3:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

MashaAllah, are you Hawiye?

He is the Sheekhaal Loobage brother
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 3:19:00 AM

Ah yes. He is the one I invited from twitter. I think he doesn’t recognise me with this username on this site.
Mcmoud72 5/10/2023 3:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

MashaAllah, are you Hawiye?

Yes brother I am a Sheekhaal Loobage guy ! you remember me very well. I think ! kkkkkkkk
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 3:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Yes brother I am a Sheekhaal Loobage guy ! you remember me very well. I think ! kkkkkkkk

Kkk mashaAllah. I’m so happy you are well and alive. Even more so that you have received your kit. Can’t wait to see your results my brother.
Mcmoud72 5/10/2023 3:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Where is Mcmoud from?

Brother I am the Sheekhaal Loobage guy who have been here for quite sometime with you here. kkkkkkkk
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 3:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother I am the Sheekhaal Loobage guy who have been here for quite sometime with you here. kkkkkkkk

Yes of course. We met on twitter first several months ago. I thought you left. Didn’t know you was MCmoud
Mcmoud72 5/10/2023 3:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Ah yes. He is the one I invited from twitter. I think he doesn’t recognise me with this username on this site.

Brother I don't remeber walaahi, would you pm your name on twitter so that we can in touch with each other, thanks
Mcmoud72 5/10/2023 3:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

He is the Sheekhaal Loobage brother

Thanks my brother Saeed. This Mcmoud is somewhat strange name even for me , may be i have to change it to my real name Mahamud .
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 7:15:00 AM

Hey farjanomar check your inbox
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 9:37:00 PM

Hey the table got updated. I got my TMRCA. It went from 1350 to 1150. I don’t know why it got smaller. Let me read the graphs properly. Apparently the other Israfiil was only 350 years away from me.
s1abx 5/10/2023 9:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey the table got updated. I got my TMRCA. It went from 1350 to 1150. I don’t know why it got smaller. Let me read the graphs properly. Apparently the other Israfiil was only 350 years away from me.

How much do you count to Dhaleey and how much does it count to Murusade? Let’s get an accurate idea of whether the TMRCA is close or not. That’s interesting though, 873 give or take a few hundred years. It will most likely get smaller.
Bulletproofpride 5/10/2023 10:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How much do you count to Dhaleey and how much does it count to Murusade? Let’s get an accurate idea of whether the TMRCA is close or not. That’s interesting though, 873 give or take a few hundred years. It will most likely get smaller.

I count 8 to dhaaley. But the other guy is “reer dhaaley”. It does not necessarily mean we meet at dhaaley. I can’t give the precise number of abtirsi to Murusade. I was raised by my reer abti (abgaal) and don’t have much connection with my tribe. The sister caaqilah knows my family because I’m related to her via her mother side. Let me ask her for my abtirsi reer dhaaley on wards. I am sure she knows.

I had it written out to me on WhatsApp few years back and remember it being a very long abtirsi but I can’t remember it now unfortunately. But I will follow up on this.
s1abx 5/10/2023 11:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I count 8 to dhaaley. But the other guy is “reer dhaaley”. It does not necessarily mean we meet at dhaaley. I can’t give the precise number of abtirsi to Murusade. I was raised by my reer abti (abgaal) and don’t have much connection with my tribe. The sister caaqilah knows my family because I’m related to her via her mother side. Let me ask her for my abtirsi reer dhaaley on wards. I am sure she knows.

I had it written out to me on WhatsApp few years back and remember it being a very long abtirsi but I can’t remember it now unfortunately. But I will follow up on this.

I feel you walaal. I only recently learned my abtirsi too after it being hammered into my mind for good years. Makes it easier that I count 13 to Abgaal itself. 350 TMRCA is way too short for 8th ancestor, at the very least 8 x 30 = 240. Inaccurate.
Bulletproofpride 5/11/2023 12:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I feel you walaal. I only recently learned my abtirsi too after it being hammered into my mind for good years. Makes it easier that I count 13 to Abgaal itself. 350 TMRCA is way too short for 8th ancestor, at the very least 8 x 30 = 240. Inaccurate.

You mean it’s way too long. 350 is long. Just got my abtirsi to Israfiil Abakar from my cousin Caaqilah. It is exactly how I rememberd. Dhaaley is 9th father on my abtirsi. I will get the remaining abtirsi to Murusade for future reference. I realised once I get a foolculus tested I will get a better TMRCA. It will also improve the MJ TMRCA even further.
Bulletproofpride 5/11/2023 12:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I feel you walaal. I only recently learned my abtirsi too after it being hammered into my mind for good years. Makes it easier that I count 13 to Abgaal itself. 350 TMRCA is way too short for 8th ancestor, at the very least 8 x 30 = 240. Inaccurate.

Yeh abgaal is a recent individual. I remember watching the Murusade nabadoon Xaad in a recent interview where he said that Murusade as an individual was present when hiiraabs father was alive. I’m not sure if I understood it properly Watch 5:50 onwards
s1abx 5/11/2023 12:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You mean it’s way too long. 350 is long. Just got my abtirsi to Israfiil Abakar from my cousin Caaqilah. It is exactly how I rememberd. Dhaaley is 9th father on my abtirsi. I will get the remaining abtirsi to Murusade for future reference. I realised once I get a foolculus tested I will get a better TMRCA. It will also improve the MJ TMRCA even further.

Yeah I meant long.
s1abx 5/11/2023 12:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh abgaal is a recent individual. I remember watching the Murusade nabadoon Xaad in a recent interview where he said that Murusade as an individual was present when hiiraabs father was alive. I’m not sure if I understood it properly Watch 5:50 onwards

I think it’s just me. My mother counts 19 herself so logically if I abtiris’d to her it would be 20. Same with my grandma who counts 17 or so herself. I’ve noticed other Abgaal do the same. Could be something to do with the J1.

Also yes, in that video the guy said his sister was the mother of Hiraab which is technically true, Fadumo Karanle. Perfectly possible seeming as the abtiris match up somewhere.
Bulletproofpride 5/11/2023 1:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I think it’s just me. My mother counts 19 herself so logically if I abtiris’d to her it would be 20. Same with my grandma who counts 17 or so herself. I’ve noticed other Abgaal do the same. Could be something to do with the J1.

Also yes, in that video the guy said his sister was the mother of Hiraab which is technically true, Fadumo Karanle. Perfectly possible seeming as the abtiris match up somewhere.

Oh are you J1? Your a Semite yeh? Have you taken Big Y to check which tribe in Arabia you belong?

I count 26 to Murusade and 29 to Hawiye from memory. It should be slightly longer. I am missing out on names.
s1abx 5/11/2023 1:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Oh are you J1? Your a Semite yeh? Have you taken Big Y to check which tribe in Arabia you belong?

I count 26 to Murusade and 29 to Hawiye from memory. It should be slightly longer. I am missing out on names.

Not yet, I’d rather not find out whether am J1 or E-V32. Being J1 but not Banu Hashim is basically useless, maybe I’ll do it one day though. But yeah, logically if I take my mothers abtiris she would be counting 37 to Hawiye or so, which is pretty standard.
farjanomar 5/11/2023 3:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey the table got updated. I got my TMRCA. It went from 1350 to 1150. I don’t know why it got smaller. Let me read the graphs properly. Apparently the other Israfiil was only 350 years away from me.

Congrats Sxb. The table is not organised its upside down-they do this once there is an update and in few days they will change,then we will see where

they place you.
Bulletproofpride 5/11/2023 3:23:00 AM

Nebula went back down to 175 dollars. Brothers take advantage of this.
Bulletproofpride 5/11/2023 3:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Congrats Sxb. The table is not organised its upside down-they do this once there is an update and in few days they will change,then we will see where

they place you.

Thank you brother. You think TMRCA will change? It looks weird seeing the small TMRCA
farjanomar 5/11/2023 10:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Thank you brother. You think TMRCA will change? It looks weird seeing the small TMRCA

TMRCA changes most times with new samples.
SDPP 5/13/2023 9:27:00 AM

Does anyone know who FTDNA kit #SI12862 listed as Darood Majeerteen Wabeeneye belongs to? They have a E-M35 and haven’t upgraded to big Y but do match with many of the Darood. It seems people are making a big fuss about the Wabeeneye and I’d like to learn more about them. Are they a stand-alone clan? Will ask elders more as well.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 5/13/2023 7:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Does anyone know who FTDNA kit #SI12862 listed as Darood Majeerteen Wabeeneye belongs to? They have a E-M35 and haven’t upgraded to big Y but do match with many of the Darood. It seems people are making a big fuss about the Wabeeneye and I’d like to learn more about them. Are they a stand-alone clan? Will ask elders more as well.

They are wabeenaye a sub clan of Majerteen, I would love to see their connection to E-163949, is there any chance the Somali dna project can upgrade his sample?
SDPP 5/13/2023 10:44:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

They are wabeenaye a sub clan of Majerteen, I would love to see their connection to E-163949, is there any chance the Somali dna project can upgrade his sample?

I wouldn’t mind fundraising or helping towards upgrading this persons kit but would need to know more about him. I am not an administrator on Somali FTDNA Project but if he joins the East African DNA Peace Project where we manage our kits and gives us permissions we may able to contribute with part of the big y upgrade or pay for it in total if enough people donate. Tell him to reach out via pm on here or SomaliDnaPeaceProject@gmail.com or provide me a contact for him.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 12:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I wouldn’t mind fundraising or helping towards upgrading this persons kit but would need to know more about him. I am not an administrator on Somali FTDNA Project but if he joins the East African DNA Peace Project where we manage our kits and gives us permissions we may able to contribute with part of the big y upgrade or pay for it in total if enough people donate. Tell him to reach out via pm on here or SomaliDnaPeaceProject@gmail.com or provide me a contact for him.

Please try and test Murusade and other Karanle for me please. I will chip money as well. Let me know if you have any Murusade on the project who need upgrading
SDPP 5/14/2023 2:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Please try and test Murusade and other Karanle for me please. I will chip money as well. Let me know if you have any Murusade on the project who need upgrading

I think I know 2 Mursade that wants to test one is foolculus the other I will have to ask and get back to you. Also do you know of any Karanale that wants to test? What sub clan of Karanale are you looking for. If you have a volunteer we can contribute insha Allah. If not we may be able to look for some.
Garaacad 5/14/2023 3:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I think I know 2 Mursade that wants to test one is foolculus the other I will have to ask and get back to you. Also do you know of any Karanale that wants to test? What sub clan of Karanale are you looking for. If you have a volunteer we can contribute insha Allah. If not we may be able to look for some.

Are you in contact with the Forculus Murusade?
SDPP 5/14/2023 3:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Are you in contact with the Forculus Murusade?

Yes, he is my cousins son. The other Mursade is a family friend.
Garaacad 5/14/2023 3:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes, he is my cousins son. The other Mursade is a family friend.

Thanks for responding. Are you planning on ordering a Nebula kit for him? There is another sale on Nebula's website that you can take advantage of right now.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I think I know 2 Mursade that wants to test one is foolculus the other I will have to ask and get back to you. Also do you know of any Karanale that wants to test? What sub clan of Karanale are you looking for. If you have a volunteer we can contribute insha Allah. If not we may be able to look for some.

Yesss. I loved reading this post. Please do test the foolculus. I know of one Gidir Karanle elder on twitter. He might want to get tested. I tried explaining the importance to but I believe he was put off by the price. He might do it if I tell him it’s fee this time. Are you sure it’s free? He lives in Canada.

Please make sure the guys you are testing are legit Murusade. Make sure he is not assimilated. I will try and get the karanle guy now. How shall I link you both together?
SDPP 5/14/2023 4:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Thanks for responding. Are you planning on ordering a Nebula kit for him? There is another sale on Nebula's website that you can take advantage of right now.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

We would like to but there are others waiting to be tested before him. If we can crowdfund with even 2 or 3 people we can get it easily. We are willing to pay 1/3 or even half of the nebula test if others are willing to contribute. Or we will have to put it on hold for a bit as we are finishing other testings.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Thanks for responding. Are you planning on ordering a Nebula kit for him? There is another sale on Nebula's website that you can take advantage of right now.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

Thanks for your help garaacad. Here join here https://somaliwave.com/index.php?threads/big-y-dna-test-needed-from-certain-clans.40988/
SDPP 5/14/2023 4:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yesss. I loved reading this post. Please do test the foolculus. I know of one Gidir Karanle elder on twitter. He might want to get tested. I tried explaining the importance to but I believe he was put off by the price.

Please make sure the guys you are testing are legit Murusade. Make sure he is not assimilated. I will try and get the karanle guy now. How shall I link you both together?

If you don’t trust our test, willing to contribute for a Mursade of your own, that is “legit”. We are doing these test for the benefit of our nation and future generations.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We would like to but there are others waiting to be tested before him. If we can crowdfund with even 2 or 3 people we can get it easily. We are willing to pay 1/3 or even half of the nebula test if others are willing to contribute. Or we will have to put it on hold for a bit as we are finishing other testings.

Ah I see. How long is the waiting? I will contribute with the money to help speed up the process.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

If you don’t trust our test, willing to contribute for a Mursade of your own, that is “legit”. We are doing these test for the benefit of our nation and future generations.

It’s not about trust my sister. You can’t tell if he is legit Murusade. He could be a assimilated into Murusade and mess up the project you was working on for so long. If your sure he is then go for it. Test him.
SDPP 5/14/2023 4:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It’s not about trust my sister. You can’t tell if he is legit Murusade. He could be a assimilated into Murusade and mess up the project you was working on for so long. If your sure he is then go for it. Test him.

Got you, yes this person is well known as his family is too. What is the easiest way for you to contribute? If we have the funds we can easily order ASAP. Is there anyone else willing to help it’ll be less over all cost? @garcaad are you down? It’ll be $60 each if we divide by 3 or $43 by 4. Let me know and we can figure it out insha Allah. I would like to to test a Karanale as well but don’t know of any right now. Can ask our connects back home if need be.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Got you, yes this person is well known as his family is too. What is the easiest way for you to contribute? If we have the funds we can easily order ASAP. Is there anyone else willing to help it’ll be less over all cost? @garcaad are you down? It’ll be $60 each if we divide by 3 or $43 by 4. Let me know and we can figure it out insha Allah. I would like to to test a Karanale as well but don’t know of any right now. Can ask our connects back home if need be.

Nice !

I will be getting home soon and will get in contact with my Gidir friend. If he is ready I will pay 1/3 of the price. Please arrange for the other 2/3 if possible.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 4:32:00 AM

If the Gidir karanle is not ready we can test your Foolculus family member. I’m willing to pay 1/3 of his as well.
SDPP 5/14/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

If the Gidir karanle is not ready we can test your Foolculus family member. I’m willing to pay 1/3 of his as well.

Sounds good!
Hilmaam 5/14/2023 6:27:00 AM

Asc thanks for welcome bulletofpride, I don't have direct PM privileges yet.

Figured I would create an account and post results here and somalispot when I get nebula results. Lots of good information here to read through
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 6:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hilmaam

Asc thanks for welcome bulletofpride, I don't have direct PM privileges yet.

Figured I would create an account and post results here and somalispot when I get nebula results. Lots of good information here to read through

Your welcome brother. Soo Dhawoow. Feel free to ask any question.
s1abx 5/14/2023 6:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hilmaam

Asc thanks for welcome bulletofpride, I don't have direct PM privileges yet.

Figured I would create an account and post results here and somalispot when I get nebula results. Lots of good information here to read through

Are you that Leelkase from Sspot?
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 7:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Are you that Leelkase from Sspot?

Yes he is. His results are due soon.
SDPP 5/14/2023 7:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hilmaam

Asc thanks for welcome bulletofpride, I don't have direct PM privileges yet.

Figured I would create an account and post results here and somalispot when I get nebula results. Lots of good information here to read through

Welcome! In the video I am sharing below is a Leelkase brother and Mursade brother that took FTDNA 37markers Ydna testing way before many of us did. Although they did not upgrade on FTDNA they come up as matches to other Somalis even closer to those who share a sub clan. https://youtu.be/CAe903LxfYI
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 8:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Welcome! In the video I am sharing below is a Leelkase brother and Mursade brother that took FTDNA 37markers Ydna testing way before many of us did. Although they did not upgrade on FTDNA they come up as matches to other Somalis even closer to those who share a sub clan. https://youtu.be/CAe903LxfYI

I’m confused. So you telling me a Murusade was closer to other Somalis instead of his fellow Murusade clan members?
Hilmaam 5/14/2023 8:06:00 AM

Yes I am
SDPP 5/14/2023 8:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I’m confused. So you telling me a Murusade was closer to other Somalis instead of his fellow Murusade clan members?

What they are pointing out is majority of Somalis come from one man like the E-Z813 clade is showing. Yes typically you’ll see those closer to each other match closer. They were doing a general overview of the Somali dna based on what they saw.

This Leelkase guy came up closer to the two other Leelkase who upgraded on FTDNA and are now on yfull. The Murusade came up closer to other hawiye than he did other Somalis. In many cases there are connections in other cases there may be assimilations and confederations established.
Jamson22 5/14/2023 9:10:00 AM

Does anyone know the clan or sub-clan identity of the new E-FT420077 individual YF117863 on yfull?
SDPP 5/14/2023 10:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Does anyone know the clan or sub-clan identity of the new E-FT420077 individual YF117863 on yfull?

Wondering too. I’m guessing he is Ogaden reer warfa like the other test. But we can never be 100% until they share. Typically people share their findings. Maybe wasn’t expecting to be placed there or just want to keep it private. Would be great to learn though.
msukhalid 5/14/2023 2:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Does anyone know the clan or sub-clan identity of the new E-FT420077 individual YF117863 on yfull?

I am wondering the same. I actually emailed the guy but he didn't respond. My sample is the one ending with 297 under E-Y229068 I am Ali Saleebaan ogayslabe the other sample under this haplogroup belong to Ismail Saleebaan ogayslabe. If that person was another ogayslabe there's a chance we might form a new sub clade.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 8:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by msukhalid

I am wondering the same. I actually emailed the guy but he didn't respond. My sample is the one ending with 297 under E-Y229068 I am Ali Saleebaan ogayslabe the other sample under this haplogroup belong to Ismail Saleebaan ogayslabe. If that person was another ogayslabe there's a chance we might form a new sub clade.

Brother who are the ogayslabe? Are they darood? What region you guys live in Somalia?

I don’t think the 2 samples above you 2 are ogayslabe. The TMRCA is too large (1550). What do you think? Who is the id:YF092954? He seems closely related to this individual.
Bulletproofpride 5/14/2023 8:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Wondering too. I’m guessing he is Ogaden reer warfa like the other test. But we can never be 100% until they share. Typically people share their findings. Maybe wasn’t expecting to be placed there or just want to keep it private. Would be great to learn though.

Are you 100% sure the person id:YF092954 is Ogaden?
SDPP 5/14/2023 10:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are you 100% sure the person id:YF092954 is Ogaden?

Based on what he shared yes. No one associated him with any other groups. I can’t be 100% sure though only Allah knows but I have heard Ogaden is known to be a confederation of many Somalis. Hope we find another Reer Warfa or more Ogaden in general. Only other one so far is the Bah Gari brother under YF106119 with the sub clade E-FTC83339.
Saeed 5/14/2023 11:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by msukhalid

I am wondering the same. I actually emailed the guy but he didn't respond. My sample is the one ending with 297 under E-Y229068 I am Ali Saleebaan ogayslabe the other sample under this haplogroup belong to Ismail Saleebaan ogayslabe. If that person was another ogayslabe there's a chance we might form a new sub clade.

On the live tree they already formed a subclade with the Ogaden guy above you two.
Bulletproofpride 5/15/2023 2:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

On the live tree they already formed a subclade with the Ogaden guy above you two.

So saeed how many ogadens confirmed on the tree and which branch exactly.

There is one on E-Y18637 and another on the E-Y163928?
Saeed 5/15/2023 2:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So saeed how many ogadens confirmed on the tree and which branch exactly.

There is one on E-Y18637 and another on the E-Y163928?

Yh from what I can see Ogaden Reer Warfa under E-Y18637 and Ogaden Bah Gari under E-Y163928

Btw you can check it yourself by logging into YFull and going on SNP matches.
Jamson22 5/15/2023 3:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by msukhalid

I am wondering the same. I actually emailed the guy but he didn't respond. My sample is the one ending with 297 under E-Y229068 I am Ali Saleebaan ogayslabe the other sample under this haplogroup belong to Ismail Saleebaan ogayslabe. If that person was another ogayslabe there's a chance we might form a new sub clade.

That's unfortunate. Hopefully he has a change of heart and shares with us.

It looks like he formed a new clade E-FTB36204 with the reer Warfa Ogaden sample.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT420077/
drobbah 5/15/2023 10:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

E-FT77328 is Hiraab so far with Abgaal and Habar Gidir under it, we're waiting for Sheekhaal Loobage and hopefully Duduble results too so if they match with us it's confirmed even more.

Idk much about Southern Somali clans but aren’t the Sheekhaal their own stand-alone clan?
Saeed 5/16/2023 2:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Idk much about Southern Somali clans but aren’t the Sheekhaal their own stand-alone clan?

Idk much about them either, they seem like a confederation, this specific Sheekhaal seem to be Hiraab according to their abtirsi so we'll see what they get.
Bulletproofpride 5/16/2023 2:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Idk much about them either, they seem like a confederation, this specific Sheekhaal seem to be Hiraab according to their abtirsi so we'll see what they get.

Hey saeed is it true that the only major clans positive for E-Y18637 is Hiiraab, Murusade (Israfeel) and Mj?

Who are the other individuals from Sanaag, Bari etc under E-FT420077 and E-FTB57462?
Saeed 5/16/2023 4:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey saeed is it true that the only major clans positive for E-Y18637 is Hiiraab, Murusade (Israfeel) and Mj?

Who are the other individuals from Sanaag, Bari etc under E-FT420077 and E-FTB57462?

Hiiraab (Abgaal + Habar Gidir)

Murusade

Mj

Ugaaslabe

Ogaden

Muuse Dhariyo Dir

Madhiban

Supposedly a Raxanweyn

Two Arabs
Mcmoud72 5/17/2023 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Idk much about Southern Somali clans but aren’t the Sheekhaal their own stand-alone clan?

Brother, I am Sheekhaal Loobage, and very much agree with brother Saeed that we are kind of confederation like the majority of the Somali clans. For instance my abtirsi goes direct to Martiile Hiraab while Aw Qutubs lineage goes to Sayiduna Abubakar Al Sadiq.
s1abx 5/17/2023 1:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother, I am Sheekhaal Loobage, and very much agree with brother Saeed that we are kind of confederation like the majority of the Somali clans. For instance my abtirsi goes direct to Martiile Hiraab while Aw Qutubs lineage goes to Sayiduna Abubakar Al Sadiq.

Kind of true seeming as they get E-M81. From what I understand, Loobage, Cabdi Sheekh and a few of the smaller ones like Reer Aw Xasan are Somali asal with Reer Aw Xasan being different ancestor, then Qudub has a Arab ancestor while Gendershe and Jaziira are carab cadiya, you can tell if you look at them.
Mcmoud72 5/19/2023 3:24:00 AM

Please help me here: last week i recieved my kit from Nebula, when i opened it there is only one vial and two swabs. Could someone please confirm if it is suppose to have two vials or just one together with two swabs?

Here are the answer from Nebula support: Stephanie (Nebula Genomics)

May 18, 2023, 5:11 PM EDT

Hello,

Yes, I completly understand. Our kits don't come with 2 vials, Only 2 swabs so you can collect the most out of your DNA. I can promis you that your kit was properly packaged. Please see our refund policy below.

Refund and Cancellation Policy – Nebula Genomics (zendesk.com)

Kind regards,

Stephanie
Bulletproofpride 5/19/2023 3:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Please help me here: last week i recieved my kit from Nebula, when i opened it there is only one vial and two swabs. Could someone please confirm if it is suppose to have two vials or just one together with two swabs?

Here are the answer from Nebula support: Stephanie (Nebula Genomics)

May 18, 2023, 5:11 PM EDT

Hello,

Yes, I completly understand. Our kits don't come with 2 vials, Only 2 swabs so you can collect the most out of your DNA. I can promis you that your kit was properly packaged. Please see our refund policy below.

Refund and Cancellation Policy – Nebula Genomics (zendesk.com)

Kind regards,

Stephanie

Your good. Just take a lot of saliva and put in the vial. Send it off immediately
Mcmoud72 5/19/2023 3:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Your good. Just take a lot of saliva and put in the vial. Send it off immediately

Thanks brother, but there two swabs and one vail, so please explain to me how can i use both swabs with one vail?
Bulletproofpride 5/19/2023 4:34:00 AM

You use both swaps for the 1 vail. They want as much saliva as possible in that one vail. This is why they gave you two.
SDPP 5/19/2023 4:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Please help me here: last week i recieved my kit from Nebula, when i opened it there is only one vial and two swabs. Could someone please confirm if it is suppose to have two vials or just one together with two swabs?

Here are the answer from Nebula support: Stephanie (Nebula Genomics)

May 18, 2023, 5:11 PM EDT

Hello,

Yes, I completly understand. Our kits don't come with 2 vials, Only 2 swabs so you can collect the most out of your DNA. I can promis you that your kit was properly packaged. Please see our refund policy below.

Refund and Cancellation Policy – Nebula Genomics (zendesk.com)

Kind regards,

Stephanie

This is a video I found online. Fast forward to the instructions part. It’s typical to have 2 swabs and one collection vial.

https://youtu.be/xbehRH0KsiM
drobbah 5/19/2023 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother, I am Sheekhaal Loobage, and very much agree with brother Saeed that we are kind of confederation like the majority of the Somali clans. For instance my abtirsi goes direct to Martiile Hiraab while Aw Qutubs lineage goes to Sayiduna Abubakar Al Sadiq.

The Aw-Qutub are mainly E-M81 (Amazigh marker), their claim of descending from Abu Bakr seems fabricated
Mcmoud72 5/19/2023 5:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

This is a video I found online. Fast forward to the instructions part. It’s typical to have 2 swabs and one collection vial.

https://youtu.be/xbehRH0KsiM

Thanks walaal , the video was very helpful. I will post it tomorrow, do you have any idea how long will it take to get the results?
Mcmoud72 5/19/2023 5:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The Aw-Qutub are mainly E-M81 (Amazigh marker), their claim of descending from Abu Bakr seems fabricated

Exactly, Now i understand why one of my very close friend who is reer Aw Qutub resembles zinedine zidane kkkkkkkkkkkk
SDPP 5/19/2023 9:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Thanks walaal , the video was very helpful. I will post it tomorrow, do you have any idea how long will it take to get the results?

You’re welcome walaal and the results seem to take 8 weeks or so; highest wait times seem to be 12-14 weeks as listed on the Nebula website.
Bulletproofpride 5/23/2023 3:19:00 AM

Nebula went back to 149 dollars
Bulletproofpride 5/23/2023 6:17:00 PM

New confirmed 37 marker Ogaden results on FTDNA. Seems to match the Darood brothers like MX, Dhulbahante etc.
Bulletproofpride 5/23/2023 8:37:00 PM

It seems Ogaden and Dhulbahante are brothers. I could be wrong on all this though but it looks like MJ and maybe few others are the Ras Xaafuuni Hawiye mentioned by early travellers. The Hawiye migrated to Nugaal after the collapse of the kingdom in Hararghe. Nugaal served as a reffugium for the Hawiye. Some of the Karanle and Hawiye returned back to the Ethiopian highlands while others like Murusade and Gurgarte ventured south from Nugaal into Mudug. Mj stayed behind and joined the E-Y163928 to become the Darood they are now.

@Garaacad what do you think?
farjanomar 5/24/2023 2:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

New confirmed 37 marker Ogaden results on FTDNA. Seems to match the Darood brothers like MX, Dhulbahante etc.

He is not on Somali Project yet, where did you see him?
Bulletproofpride 5/24/2023 3:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

He is not on Somali Project yet, where did you see him?

He is on sspot. His name is abaq. He is a confirmed Ogaden on the forum. He recieved his results todays. SSDP noticed his results matching with dhulbahante brothers on FTDNA. I think she can further assist.
SDPP 5/24/2023 1:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He is on sspot. His name is abaq. He is a confirmed Ogaden on the forum. He recieved his results todays. SSDP noticed his results matching with dhulbahante brothers on FTDNA. I think she can further assist.

I think the new 37 marker FTDNA results are from the Ogaden brother as bulletproof mentioned. He did match with many of the brothers that are under the E-Y163928 group so far. High chance he will place somewhere under this clade as well when he upgrades to big y.

Still don’t know who the new YF117863 kit is that created a subclade with the reer warfa on yfull.

[Bad Link]
farjanomar 5/25/2023 2:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I think the new 37 marker FTDNA results are from the Ogaden brother as bulletproof mentioned. He did match with many of the brothers that are under the E-Y163928 group so far. High chance he will place somewhere under this clade as well when he upgrades to big y.

Still don’t know who the new YF117863 kit is that created a subclade with the reer warfa on yfull.

[Bad Link]

He just upgraded to big Y. Lets see if he joins the other Bah-geri subclade or stays at E-163949.
Bulletproofpride 5/25/2023 3:30:00 AM

They only have lifetime membership on nebula. They are scamming people.
SDPP 5/25/2023 7:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

They only have lifetime membership on nebula. They are scamming people.

Yeah seems like they want to pull people in with the sale but it nearly triples in price because of the lifetime membership. The last sale had the option to enroll in a monthly for $12 where you can cancel once you upload your results. When it was at $175 it also had the option for monthly. Keep an eye out.

We were hoping to order 2 test for a Harla and another a Hawle Qassim as we have someone traveling to areas they live but we may have to wait too.
SDPP 5/25/2023 7:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

He just upgraded to big Y. Lets see if he joins the other Bah-geri subclade or stays at E-163949.

Yeah with these Ydna testings all kinds of surprises pop up lol. But based on his 37 marker matches he won’t be far from them on yfull. But you can never be too sure. I really wish every Somali can take this test.
SDPP 5/25/2023 7:51:00 AM

So the Galgale are a group that seems to be ostracized in some way but they don’t seem to have an artisan connect or an occupational skill they are connected to. Why is their lineage up for debate? I don’t know much about qabiil but because we are trying to see how Somalis all connect and how the artisan groups connect among each other, Galgale naturally came up as did Yaxar. Yaxar has a high chance if upgraded to big y to go under E-18637 based on 37marker matches. Galgale more so Darood. Can anyone give me an idea of the groups or share what they know of them?
Saeed 5/25/2023 6:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

They only have lifetime membership on nebula. They are scamming people.

To be fair the price now is no different to FTDNA's price, in fact Nebula is still cheaper even with lifetime.
Bulletproofpride 5/25/2023 7:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yeah seems like they want to pull people in with the sale but it nearly triples in price because of the lifetime membership. The last sale had the option to enroll in a monthly for $12 where you can cancel once you upload your results. When it was at $175 it also had the option for monthly. Keep an eye out.

We were hoping to order 2 test for a Harla and another a Hawle Qassim as we have someone traveling to areas they live but we may have to wait too.

Harla results would be nice.
s1abx 5/26/2023 12:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

So the Galgale are a group that seems to be ostracized in some way but they don’t seem to have an artisan connect or an occupational skill they are connected to. Why is their lineage up for debate? I don’t know much about qabiil but because we are trying to see how Somalis all connect and how the artisan groups connect among each other, Galgale naturally came up as did Yaxar. Yaxar has a high chance if upgraded to big y to go under E-18637 based on 37marker matches. Galgale more so Darood. Can anyone give me an idea of the groups or share what they know of them?

They don’t have an artisan connect or an occupational skill they are connected to, they are just regular people. Story goes their lineage is langaab so they wanted to join Abgaal to be the 10th Abgaal, Abgaal refused as Galgale are small people under the guardianship of our fellow member’s reer abti Owbakar Gaabane who count 8 to Abgaal. They were slaves for them for more than 150+ years. All that time they claimed Gabooye as their lineage was up for debate, maybe he was a wecel who knows but today they claim Nuux Maxamud MJ. I will have to ask for information on their lineage but I’ve heard it is Galgale Abrone, Abrone is the ancestor of Samaale.
SDPP 5/26/2023 2:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

They don’t have an artisan connect or an occupational skill they are connected to, they are just regular people. Story goes their lineage is langaab so they wanted to join Abgaal to be the 10th Abgaal, Abgaal refused as Galgale are small people under the guardianship of our fellow member’s reer abti Owbakar Gaabane who count 8 to Abgaal. They were slaves for them for more than 150+ years. All that time they claimed Gabooye as their lineage was up for debate, maybe he was a wecel who knows but today they claim Nuux Maxamud MJ. I will have to ask for information on their lineage but I’ve heard it is Galgale Abrone, Abrone is the ancestor of Samaale.

Thanks for sharing, it’s interesting to hear. We had a Galgale brother from xameer take a sample but haven’t upgraded yet. Is there any documentation of them being slaves? Or is it more of an oral story? Would definitely be interesting to see where they fall on the yfull tree.
AwliyoAlle 5/26/2023 1:14:00 PM

What's upppp my somali people?

One of my 23andme relatives told me to do Y dna so am here after some searches.

I currently have my haplogroup on 23andme as E-V32.

what's the best company FTDNA vs Nebula Genomics?
AwliyoAlle 5/26/2023 1:17:00 PM

This is FTDNA where my friend is on

Y-37

ONLY$119USD

Y-111

ONLY$249USD

Big Y-700

ONLY$449USD

which one do you recommend?
s1abx 5/26/2023 3:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by AwliyoAlle

What's upppp my somali people?

One of my 23andme relatives told me to do Y dna so am here after some searches.

I currently have my haplogroup on 23andme as E-V32.

what's the best company FTDNA vs Nebula Genomics?

What clan are you?
s1abx 5/26/2023 3:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for sharing, it’s interesting to hear. We had a Galgale brother from xameer take a sample but haven’t upgraded yet. Is there any documentation of them being slaves? Or is it more of an oral story? Would definitely be interesting to see where they fall on the yfull tree.

Mostly oral accounts. There might be a few sources but I haven’t come across any of them yet. There are no Galgale in Xamar as far as I am aware, they got butchered badly in the civil war and the few ones that remained went to Kismaayo. Are you sure he is Galgale and does he claim MJ?
AwliyoAlle 5/26/2023 5:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

What clan are you?

my abtirsi goes Ogaadeen Awliyahan reer afgaab.
SDPP 5/26/2023 10:19:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Mostly oral accounts. There might be a few sources but I haven’t come across any of them yet. There are no Galgale in Xamar as far as I am aware, they got butchered badly in the civil war and the few ones that remained went to Kismaayo. Are you sure he is Galgale and does he claim MJ?

Okay thanks for the info. Although many of them fled during those times when they got butchered for being Darood, the test taker explains there are still some in xamar as this is the capital of Somalia and you’ll find all tribes there. This sample says he is nuux Mahamud. He is sure he is Galgale as much as you are sure of your tribe haha. He only goes by what he was told like you go by what you were told. It’s always good to have a good amount of samples to compare.
SDPP 5/26/2023 10:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by AwliyoAlle

What's upppp my somali people?

One of my 23andme relatives told me to do Y dna so am here after some searches.

I currently have my haplogroup on 23andme as E-V32.

what's the best company FTDNA vs Nebula Genomics?

Welcome! My cousins mother is the same jilib as you she lives in jigjiga at the moment. The best is always big Y or the deep test with nebula. If you can’t afford to do the more expensive test you should start off with the 37marker testing on FTDNA and upgrade to big Y when you have the means. Sometimes nebula has sales recently the lowest was $149 with a $12 monthly subscription you can cancel after your results. Now nebula has a “sale” with a yearly subscription on top of the $149 which makes the test around $420, which is close to just getting the big y with FTDNA. Good to keep an eye out or if you can’t wait order based on what you can afford.
farjanomar 5/26/2023 10:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by AwliyoAlle

my abtirsi goes Ogaadeen Awliyahan reer afgaab.

Welcome walaal. We are growing the Somali Genetic Y DNA, so far a lot Clans have been tested and many clans have not been tested yet.

For the test i would suggest FTDNA since the price of Nebula is almost the same. You will get you results faster with FTDNA than Nebula.
s1abx 5/27/2023 1:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Okay thanks for the info. Although many of them fled during those times when they got butchered for being Darood, the test taker explains there are still some in xamar as this is the capital of Somalia and you’ll find all tribes there. This sample says he is nuux Mahamud. He is sure he is Galgale as much as you are sure of your tribe haha. He only goes by what he was told like you go by what you were told. It’s always good to have a good amount of samples to compare.

I’m surprised his family is still alive tbh. That’s the thing. There is no way in hell Galgale is MJ, we wouldn’t have allowed them to live with us. Galgale were always known as a outcast group. MJ is from 1991 and if you ask a Galgale man who was alive during those times to swear on the kitaab that they were MJ before 91 you won’t find one. Already them matching with Darood is a sign they are sheegad, they should’ve matched with MJ.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 1:55:00 AM

Please stop slandering the great people of nuh mohamud they never been slave to nobody they are Landhere Majerteeen mohamud saleebaan…. Iam their big brother osman mohamud saleebaan
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:18:00 AM

@adminstor please ���� don’t let S1abx inslut the noble people of nuh mohamud his calling them outcast because of tribal hate … this is genetic farum he should stay in topic not to inslut people
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Please stop slandering the great people of nuh mohamud they never been slave to nobody they are Landhere Majerteeen mohamud saleebaan…. Iam their big brother osman mohamud saleebaan

Why are you turning it into a qabiil discussion? Information on the group was asked and I provided it. Everyone and their mother knows their history.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:24:00 AM

Why are u calling nuh mohamud outcast and slave when they are noble majerteen mohamud saleebaan? This is genetic farum stop insulting people
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:25:00 AM

Please stop insulting nobody ask you about thier history stay in topic
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Why are u calling nuh mohamud outcast and slave when they are noble majerteen mohamud saleebaan? This is genetic farum stop insulting people

Just the fact they don’t match with MJ shows you they are not MJ really. They were under the leadership of Abgaal and were treated lower than low and as slaves which is the sad part of history, denying history will not help it, rather acknowledging it and how to not make the same mistake in the future. Fadlan take your FKD elsewhere waqti kuma haayi yaroow.
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Please stop insulting nobody ask you about thier history stay in topic

If you scrolled back a page, you’d see SDPP asked for their history and whether they are associated with any trade or artisan lineage. Me telling their history is on topic, no where did I insult them on this thread and I am very hurt by your points you are insinuating I would curse another tribe. Once you get past the denial step and into accepting, history changes and closure happens. Closure is a very important part of history and that is why every human part of a massacre seeks closure, denial of history doesn’t help or change a bit.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:33:00 AM

Wait for me to test them and then will know if they match us or not

We have murursade that didn’t match other hawiye have u seen me insluting them

Murursade didn’t match abgal&habargidir for 2600 years … we have habar awal and garxaajis not matching for 70k years I don’t see you insluting them why pick on nuh mohamud saleebaan and slander thier name
SDPP 5/27/2023 2:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I’m surprised his family is still alive tbh. That’s the thing. There is no way in hell Galgale is MJ, we wouldn’t have allowed them to live with us. Galgale were always known as a outcast group. MJ is from 1991 and if you ask a Galgale man who was alive during those times to swear on the kitaab that they were MJ before 91 you won’t find one. Already them matching with Darood is a sign they are sheegad, they should’ve matched with MJ.

Yeah it’s a great tragedy that we have killed one another over clan affiliation and power etc. It has done nothing but left our region in a devastated state. I hope we can come to a better mindset as a people and nation. It’s great to hear the different stories insha Allah we will see how it compares to the DNA studies. Galgale will def be next on the YDNA upgrade que.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:35:00 AM

Calling them slave and outcast isn’t insult … how are they slave or outcast when they are noble people
drobbah 5/27/2023 2:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Just the fact they don’t match with MJ shows you they are not MJ really. They were under the leadership of Abgaal and were treated lower than low and as slaves which is the sad part of history, denying history will not help it, rather acknowledging it and how to not make the same mistake in the future. Fadlan take your FKD elsewhere waqti kuma haayi yaroow.

I have never heard of ethnic Somalis being slaves to another ethnic Somali clan.Do you have any evidence for this claim?
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 2:55:00 AM

That is fake story in 1964 abgal were singing�� if u move from middle shabelle do u have a house in garowe , their were always Majerteeen I don’t see why claim Majerteeen if they were not what is special about claiming Majerteeen hmmm… inshallah I will test nuh mohamud soon �� until then stop slandering thier name
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yeah it’s a great tragedy that we have killed one another over clan affiliation and power etc. It has done nothing but left our region in a devastated state. I hope we can come to a better mindset as a people and nation. It’s great to hear the different stories insha Allah we will see how it compares to the DNA studies. Galgale will def be next on the YDNA upgrade que.

I searched it up and I didn’t find this. This is interesting, I will have to ask my elders about this.

She said that the Galgala (Galgalo or Galegale) were a small low status group who perform tasks such as slaughtering animals and making shoes. They were especially known as wood carvers. In one way they were similar to the 🌮 and other “caste” groups in Somalia. They were to be regarded as a special case in that unlike most of the caste groups they had been singled out for massacre in recent times and did not receive the protection from “noble” clans which they formerly did.
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I have never heard of ethnic Somalis being slaves to another ethnic Somali clan.Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Oral history, ask any Abgaal or Galgale person you see. The only document on the internet I could find was this tribunal one and it explains their circumstances quite well, of course leaving out the slaves part as what right person would admit that.

[Bad Link]
s1abx 5/27/2023 2:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

That is fake story in 1964 abgal were singing�� if u move from middle shabelle do u have a house in garowe , their were always Majerteeen I don’t see why claim Majerteeen if they were not what is special about claiming Majerteeen hmmm… inshallah I will test nuh mohamud soon �� until then stop slandering thier name

Pretty sure that was 1991. We will see when you test them though, for now the sample we have doesn’t link closely to Hawiye. It doesn’t change their history either way.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 3:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Oral history, ask any Abgaal or Galgale person you see. The only document on the internet I could find was this tribunal one and it explains their circumstances quite well, of course leaving out the slaves part as what right person would admit that.

[Bad Link]

This is all fake story to slander the name noble people of Nuh Mohamud.. how do u feel if I say abgal and habargidir were slave and outcast of sultan Ali yusuf kenaadid… they used to say ninki sarta saraan suldan ali waye ninki dhulka joogo adoonkis waye
drobbah 5/27/2023 3:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Oral history, ask any Abgaal or Galgale person you see. The only document on the internet I could find was this tribunal one and it explains their circumstances quite well, of course leaving out the slaves part as what right person would admit that.

[Bad Link]

I have a hard time believing they were slaves sounds like sheeko maqaaxi tbh
s1abx 5/27/2023 3:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

This is all fake story to slander the name noble people of Nuh Mohamud.. how do u feel if I say abgal and habargidir were slave and outcast of sultan Ali yusuf kenaadid… they used to say ninki sarta saraan suldan ali waye ninki dhulka joogo adoonkis waye

The British government and a Galgale person have reported lies? Interesting… Abgaal have never even reached to Hobyo or interacted with MJ before Xamar sso I have no idea what you are talking about. Besides, why are you turning this into qabiil? We are discussing the artisanal lineages of Galgale and you randomly started saying I was insulting them and now you are bringing other clans into this. I take deep offence from this false statement you have made and will be there to get you on Yawmul Aakhirah for this.
s1abx 5/27/2023 3:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I have a hard time believing they were slaves sounds like sheeko maqaaxi tbh

No one asked for you to believe it. I am sure there are sources online if someone is bothered to search for it. History cannot be changed as sad as it is, and this piece of information is important in the DNA as we see they were known as Yibir so they could possibly have Yibir origins.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 3:09:00 AM

S1abx listen to this xawadle guy saying the only qabil in somalia to be inslave by another qabil is hiraab

https://youtu.be/lsBiWigkJTA
drobbah 5/27/2023 3:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

No one asked for you to believe it. I am sure there are sources online if someone is bothered to search for it. History cannot be changed as sad as it is.

The link you posted refuted your own claim

Although the position of the Sab have many points in common with the position of slaves in Somali society their position was nevertheless distinct. Although they own no land, they are nevertheless distinct communities with their own customs. The Sab have the right to move from noble family to family at will.

They were just low caste (like the other Gabooye clans) and not slaves.Ethnic Somalis historically never practiced enslaving our own no matter their status.
SDPP 5/27/2023 3:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I searched it up and I didn’t find this. This is interesting, I will have to ask my elders about this.

She said that the Galgala (Galgalo or Galegale) were a small low status group who perform tasks such as slaughtering animals and making shoes. They were especially known as wood carvers. In one way they were similar to the 🌮 and other “caste” groups in Somalia. They were to be regarded as a special case in that unlike most of the caste groups they had been singled out for massacre in recent times and did not receive the protection from “noble” clans which they formerly did.

Interesting. I don’t know what it is with shaming folks about the very skills needed for survival and advancement of humankind. Like why would you fight or try to oppress your shoemaker, healers, blacksmith, potters, butchers, farmers etc. Life becomes easier when you have people specialize in different areas and overtime excel and naturally innovations and advancements take place. Walahi we can’t even figure out a water system to make sure our people have water the necessity to sustain life. Yaab badaana lol. Makes no sense to me. May Allah guide us all as we are slowly helping to end Somalis as a whole.
s1abx 5/27/2023 3:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

S1abx listen to this xawadle guy saying the only qabil in somalia to be inslave by another qabil is hiraab

https://youtu.be/lsBiWigkJTA

Did he say Hiraab or Habargidir? And why are you doing FKD in a DNA forum? It seems you can’t take the history.
s1abx 5/27/2023 3:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The link you posted refuted your own claim

They were just low caste (like the other Gabooye clans) and not slaves.Ethnic Somalis historically never practiced enslaving our own no matter their status.

Like I said, which individual would admit he is a slave? I don’t know what your definition of a slave is, but many ethnic Somalis have done enslaving but that is a totally different topic and not related to DNA.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 3:18:00 AM

Nuh Mohamud lived with abgal and married from them he just insluting them because of qabil reason or them being a pro afweyne government if anybody was inslave or was low caste it’s abgal listen to faysal ali warabe talking about it

https://youtube.com/shorts/o_gkmCtHGzE?feature=share
s1abx 5/27/2023 3:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Nuh Mohamud lived with abgal and married from them he just insluting because of qabil reason or them being a pro afweyne government if anybody was inslave or was low caste it’s abgal listen to faysal ali warabe talking about it

https://youtube.com/shorts/o_gkmCtHGzE?feature=share

I thought he was your enemy? All of a sudden taking his words. Abgaal are far from low caste, but like I said, that is a different topic. We have never married from Nuh Mohamoud and it was a sub that abtirsis 9 to Abgaal that kept control of them called Owbakar and were also the ones who enslaved them and killed them in 1991. Ironically a Warsangeli Abgaal sheikh was the one who saved a lot of them and created safe bases and the ones alive today are owed to him. That document explains everything except the slave part.
AwliyoAlle 5/27/2023 3:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Welcome! My cousins mother is the same jilib as you she lives in jigjiga at the moment. The best is always big Y or the deep test with nebula. If you can’t afford to do the more expensive test you should start off with the 37marker testing on FTDNA and upgrade to big Y when you have the means. Sometimes nebula has sales recently the lowest was $149 with a $12 monthly subscription you can cancel after your results. Now nebula has a “sale” with a yearly subscription on top of the $149 which makes the test around $420, which is close to just getting the big y with FTDNA. Good to keep an eye out or if you can’t wait order based on what you can afford.

order done am going on a vacay in 2 weeks hoping it arrives on time.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 3:26:00 AM

Today they are the Landhere of kismaayo

https://youtu.be/uOWfH9BQR2M
Bulletproofpride 5/27/2023 3:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Wait for me to test them and then will know if they match us or not

We have murursade that didn’t match other hawiye have u seen me insluting them

Murursade didn’t match abgal&habargidir for 2600 years … we have habar awal and garxaajis not matching for 70k years I don’t see you insluting them why pick on nuh mohamud saleebaan and slander thier name

Warya joore salaam caleykum. You say Murusade don’t match other Hawiye but we only have 2 Hawiye tested, Murusade and Hiiraab. There is no other Hawiye.
drobbah 5/27/2023 3:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Like I said, which individual would admit he is a slave? I don’t know what your definition of a slave is, but many ethnic Somalis have done enslaving but that is a totally different topic and not related to DNA.

Many Somalis did enslave people, those people depending on where in the Horn they are from tended to be non-Somali. Again you continue to make historically inaccurate claims
s1abx 5/27/2023 6:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Many Somalis did enslave people, those people depending on where in the Horn they are from tended to be non-Somali. Again you continue to make historically inaccurate claims

They are not historically inaccurate claims and everyone and their mother knows this, but I wouldn’t expect someone who isn’t from South to know this. That document alone shows what they used to do for Abgaal, if you don’t call that a slave you need to get your definitions checked.
SDPP 5/27/2023 7:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by AwliyoAlle

order done am going on a vacay in 2 weeks hoping it arrives on time.

You should be good! In the states it arrives pretty quickly, within a few days for us. Which company did you go with it?
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 7:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

They are not historically inaccurate claims and everyone and their mother knows this, but I wouldn’t expect someone who isn’t from South to know this. That document alone shows what they used to do for Abgaal, if you don’t call that a slave you need to get your definitions checked.

Did u do the ydna test ? Abgal have all type of haplogroup from A to b ,ev32,j and E-M2
AwliyoAlle 5/27/2023 8:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

You should be good! In the states it arrives pretty quickly, within a few days for us. Which company did you go with it?

I went with nebula genomics. Thanks.
s1abx 5/27/2023 4:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Did u do the ydna test ? Abgal have all type of haplogroup from A to b ,ev32,j and E-M2

There is no A haplogroup Abgaal however there are many Darood with A such as Gerikombe. We are mostly E-V32. I am sure if you take a sample from Bosaaso we will see E1B1A.
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 6:21:00 PM

Asalaamu alaikum all! Ramadhan Mubarak.

I matched as a '4th cousin' with a guy on 23andme who is Harti Abgaal with a paternal haplogroup: B-M112

Not sure I've come across that at all.

He is maternally Murusade - Israfiil abakar. His maternal haplogroup group is: L0a1d

Very different to all the other israfiil/ or abakar murusade results I've seen.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/u...3andme.145235/
Libaax-Joore 5/27/2023 6:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

There is no A haplogroup Abgaal however there are many Darood with A such as Gerikombe. We are mostly E-V32. I am sure if you take a sample from Bosaaso we will see E1B1A.

Reer bari haplogroup try again over 20 sample and they all tested the same

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18632/
drobbah 5/27/2023 7:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Asalaamu alaikum all! Ramadhan Mubarak.

I matched as a '4th cousin' with a guy on 23andme who is Harti Abgaal with a paternal haplogroup: B-M112

SE African HG lineage probably Bantu ( & Somali Bantu) mediated. There are others from Southern Somalia with exotic non-Cushitic African haplogroups
s1abx 5/27/2023 7:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Asalaamu alaikum all! Ramadhan Mubarak.

I matched as a '4th cousin' with a guy on 23andme who is Harti Abgaal with a paternal haplogroup: B-M112

Not sure I've come across that at all.

He is maternally Murusade - Israfiil abakar. His maternal haplogroup group is: L0a1d

Very different to all the other israfiil/ or abakar murusade results I've seen.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/u...3andme.145235/

Read my post again and tell me where I denied there is a B haplogroup Abgaal. It’s most likely one family that is assimilated and he is 100% Somali too. I don’t think you’ve seen the J haplogroup Bicidyahaan yet and the more to come A haplogroup Darood.
SDPP 5/27/2023 9:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

There is no A haplogroup Abgaal however there are many Darood with A such as Gerikombe. We are mostly E-V32. I am sure if you take a sample from Bosaaso we will see E1B1A.

It’s pretty cool learning about the different haplogroups in Somalia and it shouldn’t be something negative as we are in Africa where life began and has the most genetic diversity as well. I understand why folks would want to fit in line with their group for this is a big part of Somali society and structure however I think a Somali is a Somali regardless of their haplogroup. Yes there are different ethnicities found which is normal as mixing up is a result of migrations and settling down in new parts of the world. That is just how humans work. So far we do see a big sign of alliances and confederations but this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, in fact this shows human collaboration and survival skills.

Sorry for the rant. That was not addressed to you solely lol. However about the Geri Kombe you saw with the A haplogroup never came across one before on any dna test. Just the other day a Geri kombe sent in his kit to Nebula. It’ll be interesting to see where he is placed on yfull. We ordered a test for a Harla Kombe as well but that sample taker won’t be easy to find as many people are saying Harla isn’t as big as other groups but it’s interesting to know both Geri and Harla had a big part of the Ahmed Gurey movements and are named in futuh Al habashi. Someone is traveling to Hargeisa and hopefully we can find someone in Jigjiga or deeper into Ethiopia.
Bulletproofpride 5/27/2023 10:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

It’s pretty cool learning about the different haplogroups in Somalia and it shouldn’t be something negative as we are in Africa where life began and has the most genetic diversity as well. I understand why folks would want to fit in line with their group for this is a big part of Somali society and structure however I think a Somali is a Somali regardless of their haplogroup. Yes there are different ethnicities found which is normal as mixing up is a result of migrations and settling down in new parts of the world. That is just how humans work. So far we do see a big sign of alliances and confederations but this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, in fact this shows human collaboration and survival skills.

Sorry for the rant. That was not addressed to you solely lol. However about the Geri Kombe you saw with the A haplogroup never came across one before on any dna test. Just the other day a Geri kombe sent in his kit to Nebula. It’ll be interesting to see where he is placed on yfull. We ordered a test for a Harla Kombe as well but that sample taker won’t be easy to find as many people are saying Harla isn’t as big as other groups but it’s interesting to know both Geri and Harla had a big part of the Ahmed Gurey movements and are named in futuh Al habashi. Someone is traveling to Hargeisa and hopefully we can find someone in Jigjiga or deeper into Ethiopia.

Geri koombe and Harla are very important groups. Would love to see their results. Your doing a great job. Keep going!
SDPP 5/27/2023 10:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Geri koombe and Harla are very important groups. Would love to see their results. Your doing a great job. Keep going!

They are! Appreciate your support and you taking your test and looking into the history etc is awesome. Keep up your work as well. The least we could do is pay tribute to our ancestors and the Somalis who fought for our region and religion by learning of them and planting better seeds for future generations to come. What we do today should be that which benefits those to come. It’s the opposite for us lol. We are in nothing but social and economical debt and turmoil by all the negatives that took place over the last centuries. We have a lot to make up for.
s1abx 5/28/2023 4:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

It’s pretty cool learning about the different haplogroups in Somalia and it shouldn’t be something negative as we are in Africa where life began and has the most genetic diversity as well. I understand why folks would want to fit in line with their group for this is a big part of Somali society and structure however I think a Somali is a Somali regardless of their haplogroup. Yes there are different ethnicities found which is normal as mixing up is a result of migrations and settling down in new parts of the world. That is just how humans work. So far we do see a big sign of alliances and confederations but this isn’t necessarily a bad thing, in fact this shows human collaboration and survival skills.

Sorry for the rant. That was not addressed to you solely lol. However about the Geri Kombe you saw with the A haplogroup never came across one before on any dna test. Just the other day a Geri kombe sent in his kit to Nebula. It’ll be interesting to see where he is placed on yfull. We ordered a test for a Harla Kombe as well but that sample taker won’t be easy to find as many people are saying Harla isn’t as big as other groups but it’s interesting to know both Geri and Harla had a big part of the Ahmed Gurey movements and are named in futuh Al habashi. Someone is traveling to Hargeisa and hopefully we can find someone in Jigjiga or deeper into Ethiopia.

No problem. We are also getting Xawaadle results I hear. Some guy ordered a YSEQ for his Cali Madaxweyne Xawaadle uncle. This will be crucial in seeing who is the real Hawiye. Xawaadle and Hawiye share a common ancestor so logic states that since Xawaadle is Mayle Samaale then he should have the same sub-clade as Irir Samaale.

The guy tested for the E-BY192456 YSEQ option so if he gets that then the real Hawiye is cleared. That is of course, if Xawaadle isn’t Darood. It could be possible he is E-Y18637 but not E-BY192456 and he could be E-BY8081. @Garacad
SDPP 5/28/2023 4:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

No problem. We are also getting Xawaadle results I hear. Some guy ordered a YSEQ for his Cali Madaxweyne Xawaadle uncle. This will be crucial in seeing who is the real Hawiye. Xawaadle and Hawiye share a common ancestor so logic states that since Xawaadle is Mayle Samaale then he should have the same sub-clade as Irir Samaale.

The guy tested for the E-BY192456 YSEQ option so if he gets that then the real Hawiye is cleared. That is of course, if Xawaadle isn’t Darood. It could be possible he is E-Y18637 but not E-BY192456 and he could be E-BY8081. @Garacad

It would be great to see Xawaadle results. I met someone on 23andMe that said they would take one also.
Turqoise 5/28/2023 5:07:00 AM

Completely random and off topic, but I wanted to ask you guys a question. If Iberomaurusians were 1/3 sub saharan, and 2/3 natufian-like, does that mean they looked like modern horners?
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 6:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

No problem. We are also getting Xawaadle results I hear. Some guy ordered a YSEQ for his Cali Madaxweyne Xawaadle uncle. This will be crucial in seeing who is the real Hawiye. Xawaadle and Hawiye share a common ancestor so logic states that since Xawaadle is Mayle Samaale then he should have the same sub-clade as Irir Samaale.

The guy tested for the E-BY192456 YSEQ option so if he gets that then the real Hawiye is cleared. That is of course, if Xawaadle isn’t Darood. It could be possible he is E-Y18637 but not E-BY192456 and he could be E-BY8081. @Garacad

The true Haiwye are the Galbeed ones from Baabili, Mieso, Harar, Iimey etc. They are the true Hawiye and the ones mentioned in the futuh. Hawiye is buried in Qundhura and next to him are his two sons Xaskul and Karanle. The descendants of these Hawiye are safeguarding Hawiye’s burial place.

Also Hawiye has no special connection to Xawaadle Mayle Samaale. Dir is closer to Hawiye but they carry mostly Y dna T.

I doubt Xawaadle will be E-BY8081. They most likely going to match the Hiiraan sample we already have. They could also match the Hiiraab/RX as this clade seems to be dominant in the south.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 6:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Completely random and off topic, but I wanted to ask you guys a question. If Iberomaurusians were 1/3 sub saharan, and 2/3 natufian-like, does that mean they looked like modern horners?

They were said to match Afar in terms of their genetic composition. Others can elaborate on it further.
s1abx 5/28/2023 4:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The true Haiwye are the Galbeed ones from Baabili, Mieso, Harar, Iimey etc. They are the true Hawiye and the ones mentioned in the futuh. Hawiye is buried in Qundhura and next to him are his two sons Xaskul and Karanle. The descendants of these Hawiye are safeguarding Hawiye’s burial place.

Also Hawiye has no special connection to Xawaadle Mayle Samaale. Dir is closer to Hawiye but they carry mostly Y dna T.

I doubt Xawaadle will be E-BY8081. They most likely going to match the Hiiraan sample we already have. They could also match the Hiiraab/RX as this clade seems to be dominant in the south.

There already is a Xawaadle sample and the STRs match up with the Hawiye samples there. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with a guy who can’t differentiate between Karanle who are born in Ethiopia and still live there to this day vs a “sub” called Murusade that were born in Somalia and live in Somalia like Hiraab. Regardless of what you like, Mayle Samaale and Irir have a common ancestor so will have the same sub-clade. Whoever they match with is the true Hawiye and it isn’t up for debate. If you can’t get that in your brain do yourself a favour and don’t reply.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 4:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

There already is a Xawaadle sample and the STRs match up with the Hawiye samples there. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with a guy who can’t differentiate between Karanle who are born in Ethiopia and still live there to this day vs a “sub” called Murusade that were born in Somalia and live in Somalia like Hiraab. Regardless of what you like, Mayle Samaale and Irir have a common ancestor so will have the same sub-clade. Whoever they match with is the true Hawiye and it isn’t up for debate. If you can’t get that in your brain do yourself a favour and don’t reply.

Stop rewriting history. All the Karanle migrated to Nugaal. It’s part of our history. I can send you videos of Karanle elder making it clear that everyone migrated to Nugaal and we then dispersed from there to all corners of the Horn of Africa.

Murusade migrated to the south with his older sister according to oral history of the hiiraab. There is a reason why Hiiraab call him hiradeed. He was against the marriage.

So you have two different oral traditions stating the same thing that the migration started from the north.

Once again I will make it clear. The true Hawiye are the once from Galbeed. Matching a Xawaadle and a RX won’t make you Hawiye. That’s wishful thinking. It just makes you assimilated if you end up being different to the Hawiye from Galbeed.
s1abx 5/28/2023 5:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Stop rewriting history. All the Karanle migrated to Nugaal. It’s part of our history. I can send you videos of Karanle elder making it clear that everyone migrated to Nugaal and we then dispersed from there to all corners of the Horn of Africa.

Murusade migrated to the south with his older sister according to oral history of the hiiraab. There is a reason why Hiiraab call him hiradeed. He was against the marriage.

So you have two different oral traditions stating the same thing that the migration started from the north.

Once again I will make it clear. The true Hawiye are the once from Galbeed. Matching a Xawaadle and a RX won’t make you Hawiye. That’s wishful thinking. It just makes you assimilated if you end up being different to the Hawiye from Galbeed.

How do you know you’re the true Hawiye subclade? Murusade was present when Hiraab’s father was alive and they and their ancestors were both born in Somalia so there is no possible way he was born in Ethiopia. If you are insecure about your lineage, there is no need to display it. Hiraab are still the laandheer of Hawiye and without us, Hawiye wouldn’t be shit and everyone you ask will tell you that. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with someone who when you tell him something, information goes in one ear and comes out the other. This is the 3rd time and there’s no point of arguing with someone who likes to call his own mothers clan “langaab” “low caste” “non-Hawiye” and various other insults. Whether you like it or not, the Xawaadle results will sort things out and there isn’t shit you can do about it.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 5:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

How do you know you’re the true Hawiye subclade? Murusade was present when Hiraab’s father was alive and they and their ancestors were both born in Somalia so there is no possible way he was born in Ethiopia. If you are insecure about your lineage, there is no need to display it. Hiraab are still the laandheer of Hawiye and without us, Hawiye wouldn’t be shit and everyone you ask will tell you that. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with someone who when you tell him something, information goes in one ear and comes out the other. This is the 3rd time and there’s no point of arguing with someone who likes to call his own mothers clan “langaab” “low caste” “non-Hawiye” and various other insults. Whether you like it or not, the Xawaadle results will sort things out and there isn’t shit you can do about it.

I didn’t say I carry the true Hawiye clade by default.

Let me make it clear for the 100th time.

The true Hawiye clade is carried by the Hawiye from Galbeed like the Karanle and Xaskul from baabili, mieso, Iimey, Harar, qarsadulla etc.

You won’t become Hawiye by having non hawiye southerners like Xawaadle and RX test positive for the same lineage as you. It doesn’t work that way.

I am not here to insult Hiiraab so I suggest you stop insulting Laandheere Karanle Hawiye. My people have the most illustrious history in the horn only outmatched by the Aksumites. You can’t compare yourself to me.
s1abx 5/28/2023 5:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I didn’t say I carry the true Hawiye clade by default.

Let me make it clear for the 100th time.

The true Hawiye clade is carried by the Hawiye from Galbeed like the Karanle and Xaskul from baabili, mieso, Iimey, Harar, qarsadulla etc.

You won’t become Hawiye by having non hawiye southerners like Xawaadle and RX test positive for the same lineage as you. It doesn’t work that way.

I am not here to insult Hiiraab so I suggest you stop insulting Laandheere Karanle Hawiye. My people have the most illustrious history in the horn only outmatched by the Aksumites. You can’t compare yourself to me.

Yes, the true Hawiye clade is carried by Hawiye who have never left the Ethiopia area. Most Hawiye have left today and on the way they could’ve had a different father event. Hawiye and Raxanweyn have the same ancestor so logically they should have the same sub-clade of Oday Samaale, how much simpler does it get? You did insult Hiraab various times saying how “Murusade murder Hiraab” which is totally false btw, and other things I would pull up but thanks to you, Ian banned. I am not insulting Karanle Hawiye but Murusade. Besides, history doesn’t matter today, it is Karanle who are getting absorbed by Oromo and being killed by Ogaden and Oromo in Ethiopia. If Karanle were strong they would have stopped that, Hiraab wouldn not have that. Gorgarte has history too with it ruling Lower Shabelle, Mogadishu and Hirshabelle regions and Ceeldheer if I am correct in the 17th history; then the Hiraab Imamate in the 18-19th century. If anything that is more stronger history than you. Anyway, I am not going to waste my time with a guy who holds no respect for his reer abti whatsoever and due to one guy curses them all out. Waxaas nin uma aqaani waa naag waaxid ah, no man should ever curse his reer abti.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 7:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Yes, the true Hawiye clade is carried by Hawiye who have never left the Ethiopia area. Most Hawiye have left today and on the way they could’ve had a different father event. Hawiye and Raxanweyn have the same ancestor so logically they should have the same sub-clade of Oday Samaale, how much simpler does it get? You did insult Hiraab various times saying how “Murusade murder Hiraab” which is totally false btw, and other things I would pull up but thanks to you, Ian banned. I am not insulting Karanle Hawiye but Murusade. Besides, history doesn’t matter today, it is Karanle who are getting absorbed by Oromo and being killed by Ogaden and Oromo in Ethiopia. If Karanle were strong they would have stopped that, Hiraab wouldn not have that. Gorgarte has history too with it ruling Lower Shabelle, Mogadishu and Hirshabelle regions and Ceeldheer if I am correct in the 17th history; then the Hiraab Imamate in the 18-19th century. If anything that is more stronger history than you. Anyway, I am not going to waste my time with a guy who holds no respect for his reer abti whatsoever and due to one guy curses them all out. Waxaas nin uma aqaani waa naag waaxid ah, no man should ever curse his reer abti.

You called me langaab and wecel on the forum and that’s why I had to respond in a negative way.

Karanle are doing fine today. We don’t get killed by Oromo or Ogaden. That’s wishful thinking. We were the most powerfull group from the days of Hobat all the way to the 20th century. We are well recorded in the famous battle of jelenqo where you had emperor Menelik vs a coalition of Somalis that were led by the karanle. Today we have border clashes with the ruling class of the mighty Ethiopia (Oromo) and are holding it down. It was Murusade that got rid of the Ethiopians in Mogadishu 2007. This was at a time when an abgaal was the pm.

You are making things up and are still insulting me by making up lies. You say stuff like “Murusade is not Karanle because they are in Somalia”. It’s like saying “Baadicade are not Gugundhabe because they are in Somalia”. I see you say often “Murusade don’t know their abtirsi”. All lies insults. You are desperatly trying to disconnect me from my roots. You are indirectly insulting the other Karanle by saying Murusade is unknown. @Caaqilah will tell you that your wrong since she is Karanle herself.

You can’t also compare our history to yours. Only the Aksumites and the Karanle ruled over various different ethnic groups speaking different languages. Ajuuraan come 3rd. The rest of the other Sultanates are tribal enclaves.

I will make it clear once again.

Hawiye clade is carried by the Karanle, Xaskul etc from Baabili and Iimey. Xawaadle and RX won’t make you Hawiye. You have the right to claim it but I see that as a desperate move. Just be confident and wait for more diverse Hawiye to take the big Y.
s1abx 5/28/2023 7:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You called me langaab and wecel on the forum and that’s why I had to respond in a negative way.

Karanle are doing fine today. We don’t get killed by Oromo or Ogaden. That’s wishful thinking. Your making things up and are still insulting me by making up lies. You say stuff like “Murusade is not Karanle because they are in Somalia”. It’s like saying “Baadicade are not Gugundhabe because they are in Somalia” or “Murusade don’t know their abtirsi”. All lies insults.

You can’t also compare our history to yours. Only the Aksumites and the Karanle ruled over various different ethnic groups speaking different languages. Ajuuraan come 3rd. The rest of the other Sultanates are tribal enclaves.

I will make it clear once again.

Hawiye clade is carried by the Karanle, Xaskul etc from Baabili and Iimey. Xawaadle and RX won’t make you Hawiye. You have the right to claim it but I see that as a desperate move. Just be confident and wait for more diverse Hawiye to take the big Y.

I knew you were blind. I didn’t call you wecel, but said maybe Murusade is one. I am not like some people who curse mothers. I also called you a langaab after you said that we are Hawiye due to Fadumo Karanle which is totally false and incorrect. Karanle didn’t rule over no one but Somalis and Hararis and a few Oromos who are tiroyar, Hiraab Imamate more or less did the same thing. Hiraab Imamate ruled Murusade lands, did you forget? The Karanle empire wasn’t even Murusade, bring a Murusade acheivement. There is none other than Khaire who is a terrorist, it’s thanks to Hassan Sheikh he can travel out of Somalia. Anyway, it seems you are scared the Xawaadle result will prove you aren’t Hawiye. Again, you are not understanding that Murusade aren’t from Ethiopia and a non paternal event could’ve happened on the way. Get your Gidir friend to do the 18$ YSEQ test instead of waiting and we will see who truly is the langaab.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 8:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I knew you were blind. I didn’t call you wecel, but said maybe Murusade is one. I am not like some people who curse mothers. I also called you a langaab after you said that we are Hawiye due to Fadumo Karanle which is totally false and incorrect. Karanle didn’t rule over no one but Somalis and Hararis and a few Oromos who are tiroyar, Hiraab Imamate more or less did the same thing. Hiraab Imamate ruled Murusade lands, did you forget? The Karanle empire wasn’t even Murusade, bring a Murusade acheivement. There is none other than Khaire who is a terrorist, it’s thanks to Hassan Sheikh he can travel out of Somalia. Anyway, it seems you are scared the Xawaadle result will prove you aren’t Hawiye. Again, you are not understanding that Murusade aren’t from Ethiopia and a non paternal event could’ve happened on the way. Get your Gidir friend to do the 18$ YSEQ test instead of waiting and we will see who truly is the langaab.

Again your lying. Adal stretched from Eritrea to Somalia and had the bulk of Ethiopia under its control. You had Hobat in the 13th century competing with Ifat when your clan was unheard off. You had Awsa inmate after Adal that was ruled by Karanle as stated by the Awsa (Afar) chronicles well up to the 19th century. Even Richard Burton met a dynasty of Hawiye judges stationed at Zeila during sharmaarke era.

Your Imamate is insignificant. It’s similar to warsengeli sultanate up north and other such sultanates. Mogadishu was a lot more prosperous when Ajuuraan and its predecessor “Mogadishu sultanate” were ruling it

All the Gurgaarte live in south Somalia. It’s your heartland. You are comparing and competing yourself to a sub sub Karanle clan called Murusade.

Ask yourself why is there a Karanle in south Somalia in the midst of the Gorgaarte but there is not a single Gorgaarte clan in Hararghe? Why is this the case? I thought you was Hawiye and had history? Where is the written evidence that you was ever present in Hararghe?
Turqoise 5/28/2023 8:34:00 PM

Saying certain folks are assimilated does imply they are garac, and anger is a justifiable reaction from such an accusation. I also disagree that XL would definitively prove a true Hawiye lineage, since Dir are supposedly closer to us abtirsi wise despite DNA proving this is not the case.

Somewhat related question - what is the upper age limit of a clan's progenitor? How long ago could Hawiye have lived, hypothetically?
s1abx 5/28/2023 8:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Again your lying. Adal stretched from Eritrea to Somalia and had the bulk of Ethiopia under its control. You had Hobat in the 13th century competing with Ifat when your clan was unheard off. You had Awsa inmate after Adal that was ruled by Karanle as stated by the Awsa (Afar) chronicles well up to the 19th century. Even Richard Burton met a dynasty of Hawiye judges stationed at Zeila during sharmaarke era.

Your Imamate is insignificant. It’s similar to warsengeli sultanate up north and other such sultanates. Mogadishu was a lot more prosperous when Ajuuraan and its predecessor “Mogadishu sultanate” were ruling it

All the Gurgaarte live in south Somalia. It’s your heartland. You are comparing and competing yourself to a sub sub Karanle clan called Murusade.

Ask yourself why is there a Karanle in south Somalia in the midst of the Gorgaarte but there is not a single Gorgaarte clan in Hararghe? Why is this the case? I thought you was Hawiye and had history? Where is the written evidence that you was ever present in Hararghe?

Are you seriously telling me Adal Sultanate was Hawiye? You are madder than I thought. It didn’t even control past Mudug anyway. In the 13th century there was no Hiraab until the 16th. Here you are again claiming non Murusade achievements. Why are you claiming Sexawle, Gidir and Kaariye achievements? Are there no Murusade achievements for you to claim? Do you see me claiming Habargidir or other Hiraab achievements? Do you see me claiming something Abgaal wasn’t in? This is exactly how I know you are langaab, claiming everything that isn’t yours. I doubt even a single Murusade was present there, it was a collaboration of other Karanle and Gugundhabe. Now tell me, where is the written history Murusade was ever present in Hararghe? Where is the written history Murusade did all of this you are mentioning? It’s funny of you to say I am comparing a sub sub of Karanle when I am comparing it from a sub that counts 11 to Gorgarte.
Turqoise 5/28/2023 8:39:00 PM

I stand by my crackpot theory that Hawiye is the 2.6k yr old progenitor of E-Y18637
drobbah 5/28/2023 8:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

I stand by my crackpot theory that Hawiye is the 2.6k yr old progenitor of E-Y18637

Doubt it as even the non-Somali Raxanweyn falls under that clade and their language separated from Somali (Af-Maxaa) ~1500 years ago, most Somali clans founder effects tend to be between the 11-13th century.The 13th century clade the Hiraab currently fall under is a better candidate for a “Hawiye” marker
s1abx 5/28/2023 8:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Saying certain folks are assimilated does imply they are garac, and anger is a justifiable reaction from such an accusation. I also disagree that XL would definitively prove a true Hawiye lineage, since Dir are supposedly closer to us abtirsi wise despite DNA proving this is not the case.

Somewhat related question - what is the upper age limit of a clan's progenitor? How long ago could Hawiye have lived, hypothetically?

His fault for saying Hiraab aren’t Hawiye. Anyway, what does Dir have to do with this? Samaale is the ancestor of Hawiye and Xawaadle so logically they would have the same sub-clade. It is literally as simple as that.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 9:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Saying certain folks are assimilated does imply they are garac, and anger is a justifiable reaction from such an accusation. I also disagree that XL would definitively prove a true Hawiye lineage, since Dir are supposedly closer to us abtirsi wise despite DNA proving this is not the case.

Somewhat related question - what is the upper age limit of a clan's progenitor? How long ago could Hawiye have lived, hypothetically?

Brother I would say Haiwye was from the 8-9th century. He was supposedly a Muslim. First kingdom of Karanle was Hobat Kingdom of Ifat era in the 13th century, Hobat was a confederate state allied with Ifat and is modern day Babile Erer Yarey, it is where the old Hawiye use to crown their Garads that later produced the line of Ahmed Gurey and other Hawiye lineages.

Now since Hawiye clans were already present during the 13th century (700 year ago) I would assume the 8-9th century would be ideal time frame for Haiwye the patriarch.
Bulletproofpride 5/28/2023 9:07:00 PM

Nah I never said that . @Turqoise and I used to tag team against the rest on the forum. He is a Hiiraab himself and he knows I only defend my self. It’s you who came on the forum and tried to convince the people that RX and Xawaadle is enough to confirm the Hawiye lineage.

I make it clear once again.

No one but the Hawiye from Adari can claim Hawiye. Hawiye is a northerner linked to the tribes of yeh Awash valley. No one can do a “unuka leh” with Hawiye when Karanle is still alive!
Aben Aboo 5/28/2023 9:52:00 PM

Astaghfiru'Llâh al 'Adhim, Ittaqu'Llâh Ahbâb, كُلُّ نَفْسٍ ذَآئِقَةُ ٱلْمَوْتِ ثُمَّ إِلَيْنَا تُرْجَعُونَ, kullukum Antum Ahlu'l Khayr, it's only DNA Forum for to learn and for to share informations no more, and excuse me for this little intrusion but i see some very bad words on the activity stream and it saddens me, please reconcile and avoid getting banned or suspended, wa Salâm.
Garaacad 5/28/2023 10:57:00 PM

E-Y17859 discussion thread.

Thread continuation from Somalis and E-Y17859: [Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 5/30/2023 3:02:00 AM

Guys I’m really sorry for ruining the thread.
SDPP 5/30/2023 4:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys I’m really sorry for ruining the thread.

I think we can learn from these tensions and see that what’s happening on here is a reflection of bigger societal problems. We are stuck in what our so called families did with nothing to show for it. With the many great minds I see on this forum we can change the trajectory of our region if we think outside of ourselves. When one misbehaves another should correct them. Instead it is each for their own. May we all be guided. @bulletproofpride owning up to your mistakes takes a lot. It was obviously a reaction to negative energy that I am sure we all felt.

https://youtu.be/h0BNH9ix_Vs

“When brothers fight to the death, a stranger Inherits their home.” We need to learn, share, and reflect without name calling.
SDPP 5/30/2023 4:33:00 AM

An update on our search for an Harla. When our connect reached out to a person in jigjiga he explained his theory on why the Harla are not as large as they should be lol. He said a volcano erupted where they lived and many lost their lives….Subhan Allah what a story. Our people and their imagination never cease to impress me lol but we are all ears. He explained he will keep us updated and will continue his search….and we wait.
drobbah 5/30/2023 4:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

An update on our search for an Harla. When our connect reached out to a person in jigjiga he explained his theory on why the Harla are not as large as they should be lol. He said a volcano erupted where they lived and many lost their lives….Subhan Allah what a story. Our people and their imagination never cease to impress me lol but we are all ears. He explained he will keep us updated and will continue his search….and we wait.

Harla weren't even Somali and lived somewhere in Eastern Shewa to areas of modern Harar.In the Futuh Somalis & Harla are consistently differentiated & are even separated from each other in the Imam's Army due to animosity between us and the Harla.These Harla were probably responsible for all the South Ethio-Semitic loanwords found in Northern Somali as it is very likely they spoke a form of South Ethio-Semitic but I'm pretty sure it will be unrelated to Harari (Sidamic substratum). In history many different ethnic groups have gone extinct, it is a normal part of history. There are Somali tribes mentioned in the Futuh that for example no longer exist.
SDPP 5/30/2023 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Harla weren't even Somali and lived somewhere in Eastern Shewa to areas of modern Harar.In the Futuh Somalis & Harla are consistently differentiated & are even separated from each other in the Imam's Army due to animosity between us and the Harla.These Harla were probably responsible for all the South Ethio-Semitic loanwords found in Northern Somali as it is very likely they spoke a form of South Ethio-Semitic but I'm pretty sure it will be unrelated to Harari (Sidamic substratum). In history many different ethnic groups have gone extinct, it is a normal part of history. There are Somali tribes mentioned in the Futuh that for example no longer exist.

It’ll be interesting to see where they fall if we get samples because of these very points. Some Somalis believe Harla are Somali. There may have been animosity between them in Ahmed Gureys Army but isn’t there issues between Somali groups now. I am not sure this eliminates them from being Somali. If they exist, it’ll be interesting to hear their story. If they are extinct or no longer exist, where are their relatives? It wasn’t that long ago but I also understand wars and relocations can affect family histories. Why do you think Somalis claim them? Are there others that claim them in the horn?
drobbah 5/30/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

It’ll be interesting to see where they fall if we get samples because of these very points. Some Somalis believe Harla are Somali. There may have been animosity between them in Ahmed Gureys Army but isn’t there issues between Somali groups now. I am not sure this eliminates them from being Somali. If they exist, it’ll be interesting to hear their story. If they are extinct or no longer exist, where are their relatives? It wasn’t that long ago but I also understand wars and relocations can affect family histories. Why do you think Somalis claim them? Are there others that claim them in the horn?

All the Somalis were grouped together in the Imam's Army and the man given charge of the Harla part of the army was the Sultan of Shewa at the time who was related to the Imam through his aunt. I don't see any evidence from this primary source to suggest they are a Somali clan and not a separate ethnicity.
SDPP 5/30/2023 9:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

All the Somalis were grouped together in the Imam's Army and the man given charge of the Harla part of the army was the Sultan of Shewa at the time who was related to the Imam through his aunt. I don't see any evidence from this primary source to suggest they are a Somali clan and not a separate ethnicity.

I understand what you’re saying. I remember reading the Somalis being positioned together but there were also many things that were not clear in the futuh like if the Imam himself was Somali. Although we all believe he was we don’t have any concrete connections. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t but we don’t have proof he was either. I wouldn’t be surprised if Harla turns out to be different but maybe an alliance was created between them and Somalis leading them to blend in with them. I hear Harla and Gheri are connected but we shall see over time. Also heard they are connected to Cisse. There were many groups under the banner of Islam that fought and mixed up.

https://youtu.be/E-b4El_66Gc
drobbah 5/30/2023 5:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I understand what you’re saying. I remember reading the Somalis being positioned together but there were also many things that were not clear in the futuh like if the Imam himself was Somali. Although we all believe he was we don’t have any concrete connections. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t but we don’t have proof he was either. I wouldn’t be surprised if Harla turns out to be different but maybe an alliance was created between them and Somalis leading them to blend in with them. I hear Harla and Gheri are connected but we shall see over time. Also heard they are connected to Cisse. There were many groups under the banner of Islam that fought and mixed up.

https://youtu.be/E-b4El_66Gc

It’s pretty clear from the Futuh that the Imam isn’t Somali either
SDPP 5/30/2023 11:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

It’s pretty clear from the Futuh that the Imam isn’t Somali either

It wasn’t mentioned at all what he was which was pretty interesting. Everybody and their momma was grouped or called by their tribe or nationality. Even those he was closest to. Maybe the writer just assumed everyone would know Or maybe we just aren’t supposed to know. They all worked together from all over and made it work for the sake of Islam. May Allah grant them jannah.
Bulletproofpride 5/30/2023 11:24:00 PM

Harla I believe were different to the Somalis but close at the same time. I see them as a parallel group that did not survive the passage of time. Many of them died during the wars and others got assimilated into Oromo and Somali families. The imam’s mother was Harla. The Harla kingdom and Hobat kingdom were neighbours. Even king Amde Seyon mentioned the Harala & Hobat leaders separately when they came to him. Both these states were allied with Ifat.

Futuh makes it clear that the imam was from the Balaw tribe who live in Hobat and still do till this day. Hobat today is at erer yarey near baabili. More than 7 library books confirm Imam being from the Hawiye Balaw tribe who are sub clan part of the Sixawle Karanle tribe. Hobat the birth place of Imam Ahmed is still occupied by the Karanle. Sim & Za'kah towns where the Imam used to hide himself from Abu Baker are still inhabited by Karanle. The Ethiopians and Oromo admit that “academically” imam Ahmed’s identity is settled as Beesha Karanle.

History is one of continuation not fluctuation. Battle of Chelenqo 1887 was led by the Karanle when Menilk was expanding to take Harar. We would lead again a battle couple of decades later during Lig Iyasu time. Forward few decades later during the Siyaad barre era the Somali rebels from Babili were known as the Axmed gurey battalion. Maxamad cali a HY Isaaq military leader of SNM former WSLF and Afraad commander mentions in his biographgy his deputy in the Ahmed Gurey batallion of 77 was a Karanle called Axmad Cali Nuur a Gidir Karanle.

There is a guy I knew who meet the descandants of Garaad Abun Cadeshe in Funyan Bira some time back and he told me about their opinion on all the claims on their forefathers and they reliped he was the hero of all the Somalis and muslims in the area so we are okay with as long as they claim him as their own because he was fighting for all of them under the same flag.. that was quite powerful and noble answer which surprised the guy.

He also meet quite few Reer Naaji Ahmed in Harar and all of their territory is inside proper ethiopia meaning not in Somali region. Majority of them live in Harar. Fun fact Harar was their capital for centuries.

You guys should go see Harar sometime you may like what you find there. Alot of Murusade youths who live in the west do pilgrimage visits to Harar from time to time. It is a sacred place to them, not because of only historic value but so many of them live in Harar
Bulletproofpride 5/31/2023 5:32:00 AM

@Garaacad

Current TMRCA of E-BY8081 is only 1150. Give me your opinion? Do you think it will change? I was given a separate clade despite being separated by 1150 years which is the same time as the time when E-Y18632* separated from the other MJ’s.
Libaax-Joore 5/31/2023 8:07:00 AM

Garacad we have Abdirahim saleeban id:YF118784 e-by8085 ist save to say e-by8085 is saleeban mohamed
Sakhar 5/31/2023 10:13:00 PM

Libaax-Joore thanks for keeping us up-dated!
Garaacad 6/1/2023 3:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Garaacad

Current TMRCA of E-BY8081 is only 1150. Give me your opinion? Do you think it will change? I was given a separate clade despite being separated by 1150 years which is the same time as the time when E-Y18632* separated from the other MJ’s.

I have no opinion on this matter. I think we should wait for more data.

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Garacad we have Abdirahim saleeban id:YF118784 e-by8085 ist save to say e-by8085 is saleeban mohamed

We shall see. He needs to create a new subclade on the live tree for Saleebaan Maxamed to be E-BY8085.
Bulletproofpride 6/3/2023 12:25:00 AM

Who is the new Y18632* sample?
SDPP 6/5/2023 7:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who is the new Y18632* sample?

Have you figured out who that kit belongs to you were asking about? I have no idea who it is. What about kit YF117863 that came under FT-420077? We have 2 mystery results lol. More people may decide to do this for privacy due to how others act haha. I don’t blame them.

We have one new test result that came under SDPP on yfull. He is Bah Hayaag reer osman Birmaal from Djibouti. He is under E-Y163949/ BY203771 with Hawle Qaasim for now but I expect him to probably create a subclade with kit ending in 51 under FT24258 because that sample is one of the test who whose family were in Bale Ethiopia for generations due to wars and religion and they were called Waraa Hayaag in Bale. I am assuming bah Hayaag and waraa Hayaag may be the same. Or another theory is the bah Hayaag are the J1 Somalis and the E carriers are just typical Harti with blacksmith skills sets. We shall see.
SDPP 6/6/2023 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who is the new Y18632* sample?

Looks like the new brother under Y18632* is tumaal or Birmaal. If you message on yfull he will answer. Interesting first of the blacksmiths to go under this subclade. Wondering if he has any connection to Galgale or Yaxar. Sometimes since a confederation was built with the blacksmiths people under this group can get mixed up with each other over a long period.
drobbah 6/6/2023 4:16:00 AM

The new YF119311 sample is also L0a1d1
Garaacad 6/6/2023 4:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Looks like the new brother under Y18632* is tumaal or Birmaal. If you message on yfull he will answer. Interesting first of the blacksmiths to go under this subclade. Wondering if he has any connection to Galgale or Yaxar. Sometimes since a confederation was built with the blacksmiths people under this group can get mixed up with each other over a long period.

Tell him to list his ancestral province and Somalia as his country of origin. What is his origin story? Does he claim to be of Majeerteen descent?
SDPP 6/6/2023 4:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The new YF119311 sample is also L0a1d1

Pretty cool. What have you learned about this maternal haplogroup? I need to focus more on this area, all I know is L is considered scientific or mitochondrial Eve’s Gene and many East Africans carry downstreams of L.
SDPP 6/6/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Tell him to list his ancestral province and Somalia as his country of origin. What is his origin story? Does he claim to be of Majeerteen descent?

Message him on yfull. I asked him to share his tribe and he shared he was tumaal. I gave him my email address for more information and IÂ’ll ask him those questions too if he contacts me and to list his country and province.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 6:23:00 AM

There are stories about criminals and ostracised persons from noble clans who, in a place where nobody knows them, change their identity to a minority group and marry a woman from that same minority group. This Tumaal individual is probably the only member of his group that is descended from MJ.
Jamson22 6/6/2023 6:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Pretty cool. What have you learned about this maternal haplogroup? I need to focus more on this area, all I know is L is considered scientific or mitochondrial Eve’s Gene and many East Africans carry downstreams of L.

Every human carries downstreams of L

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/
SDPP 6/6/2023 6:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

There are stories about criminals and ostracised persons from noble clans who, in a place where nobody knows them, change their identity to a minority group and marry a woman from that same minority group. This Tumaal individual is probably the only member of his group that descends from MJ.

Interesting theories. No way telling as there are Galgale and Yaxar missing from the artisanal or gaboyee groups. I don’t believe the criminal or ostracized stories as the original story was two brothers eating from a dead carcass and one brother spitting it out while another swallowed therefore one of them being ostracized. It seems to be more of a political movement more than anything to me from within or outside. Especially based on how most of these artisan groups are everywhere.
SDPP 6/6/2023 6:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Every human carries downstreams of L

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/

I meant to say other forms of L. I see what you mean, just like all humans come from scientific Adam or carry downstreams of A or BT they carry L. After all we all come from Adam and Eve, Hawa and Adam. We are after all, Banu Adam.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 8:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Interesting theories. No way telling as there are Galgale and Yaxar missing from the artisanal or gaboyee groups. I don’t believe the criminal or ostracized stories as the original story was two brothers eating from a dead carcass and one brother spitting it out while another swallowed therefore one of them being ostracized. It seems to be more of a political movement more than anything to me from within or outside. Especially based on how most of these artisan groups are everywhere.

While Gabooye is a blanket term used to describe a plethora of unrelated minority groups, its subdivisions, such as Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., are real groupings not based on shared values; Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., were originally based on paternal descent from one man, but over time these groups assimilated ostracised persons from noble clans.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 9:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

While Gabooye is a blanket term used to describe a plethora of unrelated minority groups, its subdivisions, such as Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., are real groupings not based on shared values; Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., were originally based on paternal descent from one man, but over time these groups assimilated ostracised persons from noble clans.

Case in point, E-FTB57462 is 2600 years removed from E-BY8081, E-BY192465, E-FT420077, etc.
SDPP 6/6/2023 9:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

While Gabooye is a blanket term used to describe a plethora of unrelated minority groups, its subdivisions, such as Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., are real groupings not based on shared values; Yibir, Madhibaan, etc., were originally based on paternal descent from one man, but over time these groups assimilated ostracised persons from noble clans.

While yiber aka Anas or Banu Hanifa, Madhiban , Hawle Qaasim, Muse Dhiirye Dir etc are real men they are not paternally related to other artisans or gaboyee groups. They are closer to other Somali paternal lines outside their clans. As we already see (if we allow ourselves to) they carry varied E, T, J paternal haplogroups. We still need to upgrade Galgale and Yaxar to see where they go. If one wants to learn, along with us, it’s in your face. I am sharing how I see things with YDNA testings thus far.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 3:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

While yiber aka Anas or Banu Hanifa, Madhiban , Hawle Qaasim, Muse Dhiirye Dir etc are real men they are not paternally related to other artisans or gaboyee groups. They are closer to other Somali paternal lines outside their clans. As we see already see (if we allow ourselves to) they carry varied E, T, J paternal haplogroups. We still need to upgrade Galgale and Yaxar to see where they go. If one wants to learn, along with us, it’s in your face. I am sharing how I see things with YDNA testings thus far.

We also have subclades like E-BY8100 (associated with Arabian Tumaal-like group) and E-FTB57462 (linked to Madhibaan) that have not shown up in non-Madhibaan, Yibir, etc.
Bulletproofpride 6/6/2023 5:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Message him on yfull. I asked him to share his tribe and he shared he was tumaal. I gave him my email address for more information and IÂ’ll ask him those questions too if he contacts me and to list his country and province.

MashaAllah, so it looks like the other E-Y18632* is a tumaal as well?
Bulletproofpride 6/6/2023 5:03:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

While yiber aka Anas or Banu Hanifa, Madhiban , Hawle Qaasim, Muse Dhiirye Dir etc are real men they are not paternally related to other artisans or gaboyee groups. They are closer to other Somali paternal lines outside their clans. As we see already see (if we allow ourselves to) they carry varied E, T, J paternal haplogroups. We still need to upgrade Galgale and Yaxar to see where they go. If one wants to learn, along with us, it’s in your face. I am sharing how I see things with YDNA testings thus far.

It looks like many clans had a artisans within them. Allah showed us through science that they are not all related but can be found in every Somali lineage.
Bulletproofpride 6/6/2023 5:16:00 PM

Does this make the MJ clan E-Y18640 (only 800 years old)? This means we are not that close as we initially thought to be. This 800 year makes more sense as this is when most of the clans were being formed. @Garaacad @Libaax joore @Sdpp what do you guys think? Is the other mysterious E-Y18632* also a tumaal/Birmaal?
SDPP 6/6/2023 10:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

We also have subclades like E-BY8100 (associated with Arabian Tumaal-like group) and E-FTB57462 (linked to Madhibaan) that have not shown up in non-Madhibaan, Yibir, etc.

How do you know E-BY8100 is associated with Arabian Tumaal like group? This is pretty new to me.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 10:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

How do you know E-BY8100 is associated with Arabian Tumaal like group? This is pretty new to me.

I cannot quote posts from a closed thread, so the following is a copy-and-paste post from user Msukhalid:

"Hi guys. I am the one of the two ogayslabe samples on yfull belonging to E-Y229068. Another ogayslabe living in Denmark tested through whole genome and uploaded his test to Yfull and we formed our previously mentioned sub clade with a 550 years TMRCA. Our closest relatives are Reer warfaa Ogaden Daarood. Both of us share haplogroup E-FT420077 with a 1550 years TMRCA. We clearly need more individuals to test to have a clearer picture of our genetic situation.

Anyway, I am a third generation Saudi Arabian. We have been in Saudi Arabia since 1947. Therefore; I have a decent understanding of the Saudi clan system. I contacted one of the people belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 through my Majeerteen friend in America and made investigations about the two samples belonging to E-BY8100 and here's what I found. The person I called hails from City dellwers and he said they came from Zabid in Yemen to Najd even though his "tamimi relatives" insist that they belong to Bani Tamim. He said that his grandmother told him that we came here with Al hubeshi (a noble Arab clan that have nothing to do with Abyssinia) and that they moved to the Eastern province to join Al Ajman tribe about 200 years ago put in mind that thus was before they tested. The person I called who said he originally hailed from Al Alimi clan did his Big Y in 2014 and the other guy did it a year later or so. Al Alimi discovered that his ayeeyo was right about some of their tribesmen going to Eastern province but what she failed to understand is that they joined Al Hubeshi branch (most of whom belong to haplogroup J1) of Al Ajman tribe. Al Hubeshi belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 was very upset to learn that he didn't cluster with the rest of his bedouin sub clan and that he descend from city dellwers in Nejd. He asked Al Alimi to never contact him again and hid his sample and information. Anyway, after a year of my call with Mr. Al Alimi. I learned that it was rumoured in their region in Nejd that this family is of a slave descent and that they were incorporated into Al Khudhari community which has Madhiban like status and work in occupations similar to Madhiban with a strict marriage system of their own. That's why the guy who's essentially a shegato as was confirmed by his DNA results was very upset to learn that he is a descendant of that lower caste community. Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to clarify how this very unique samples ended up amongst Somalis".
SDPP 6/6/2023 11:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Does this make the MJ clan E-Y18640 (only 800 years old)? This means we are not that close as we initially thought to be. This 800 year makes more sense as this is when most of the clans were being formed. @Garaacad @Libaax joore @Sdpp what do you guys think? Is the other mysterious E-Y18632* also a tumaal/Birmaal?

I did notice the years changed but as we all know new test could change the clades as well as dates. On ytree the MJs are listed as being formed 1650<->650 ybp, TMRCA CI 1200<->400 ybp.

I have no clue who the other E-18632 is but they have their province as Bari. Maybe the next update will give us an idea how close he is with the Tumaal/Birmaal brother with the tmrca between the two if they are still under the same sub clade.
Garaacad 6/6/2023 11:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Does this make the MJ clan E-Y18640 (only 800 years old)? This means we are not that close as we initially thought to be. This 800 year makes more sense as this is when most of the clans were being formed. @Garaacad @Libaax joore @Sdpp what do you guys think? Is the other mysterious E-Y18632* also a tumaal/Birmaal?

As far as I know, the other guy is Cismaan Maxamuud. I don't think E-Y18640 is a suitable candidate for MJ, but more data is required for my opinion to be conclusive.
SDPP 6/6/2023 11:14:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I cannot quote posts from a closed thread, so the following is a copy-and-paste post from user Msukhalid:

"Hi guys. I am the one of the two ogayslabe samples on yfull belonging to E-Y229068. Another ogayslabe living in Denmark tested through whole genome and uploaded his test to Yfull and we formed our previously mentioned sub clade with a 550 years TMRCA. Our closest relatives are Reer warfaa Ogaden Daarood. Both of us share haplogroup E-FT420077 with a 1550 years TMRCA. We clearly need more individuals to test to have a clearer picture of our genetic situation.

Anyway, I am a third generation Saudi Arabian. We have been in Saudi Arabia since 1947. Therefore; I have a decent understanding of the Saudi clan system. I contacted one of the people belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 through my Majeerteen friend in America and made investigations about the two samples belonging to E-BY8100 and here's what I found. The person I called hails from City dellwers and he said they came from Zabid in Yemen to Najd even though his "tamimi relatives" insist that they belong to Bani Tamim. He said that his grandmother told him that we came here with Al hubeshi (a noble Arab clan that have nothing to do with Abyssinia) and that they moved to the Eastern province to join Al Ajman tribe about 200 years ago put in mind that thus was before they tested. The person I called who said he originally hailed from Al Alimi clan did his Big Y in 2014 and the other guy did it a year later or so. Al Alimi discovered that his ayeeyo was right about some of their tribesmen going to Eastern province but what she failed to understand is that they joined Al Hubeshi branch (most of whom belong to haplogroup J1) of Al Ajman tribe. Al Hubeshi belonging to haplogroup E-BY8100 was very upset to learn that he didn't cluster with the rest of his bedouin sub clan and that he descend from city dellwers in Nejd. He asked Al Alimi to never contact him again and hid his sample and information. Anyway, after a year of my call with Mr. Al Alimi. I learned that it was rumoured in their region in Nejd that this family is of a slave descent and that they were incorporated into Al Khudhari community which has Madhiban like status and work in occupations similar to Madhiban with a strict marriage system of their own. That's why the guy who's essentially a shegato as was confirmed by his DNA results was very upset to learn that he is a descendant of that lower caste community. Sorry for the lengthy post but I had to clarify how this very unique samples ended up amongst Somalis".

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. So the E-BY8100 didn’t match up with the rest of his tribal members and was called hubeshi he isn’t far from it, to them Somalis are no different then Ethiopians. Poor guy should be proud he clusters with Somalis who have a rich history. This city dweller and Bedouin feud is deadly lol and seems like it’s been going on for a long time. One believes his way of living is best while the other is doing what he knows best. There is no shame in either as it provides halal means of living.
Dave12 6/7/2023 1:52:00 AM

Hi guys, I have been lazily lurking until today when I got my G25 co-ordinates and did some runs. Some thing I cant quite get the hang of is how I'm far closer to Somali Kenyans than I am to Somali samples despite having 0% Mota. My closest modern pop on Illustrative is Somali_Kenya and I cluster with them on their plot. My theory is that the fact that I also have 0% Arabian means I am noticeable more SSA shifted (61% EA HG/33.2% Natufian/5.8% NA Farmer) than the somali samples we have, which makes sense considering my clan lives in the interior far from the coast where Yemeni influence is high (SL and northern PL).

I think I'm even more SSA shifted and closer to kenyan somalis than the user Saeed.

Show Spoiler

@drobbah , If you dont mind could you run some basic ancestry tests on my numbers? In particular how I compare to user Mujahid who is a southern Marehan while I'm a central Marehan with no Jubaland/NFD ancestors as well as where I plot in the PCA plot you ran with Saeed. I think I will be close to him and maybe even more SSA shifted.

My scaled co-ordinates

Show Spoiler
Jamson22 6/7/2023 2:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The new YF119311 sample is also L0a1d1

Do you know this new J2 Somali sample?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z482/
Saeed 6/7/2023 3:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Hi guys, I have been lazily lurking until today when I got my G25 co-ordinates and did some runs. Some thing I cant quite get the hang of is how I'm far closer to Somali Kenyans than I am to Somali samples despite having 0% Mota. My closest modern pop on Illustrative is Somali_Kenya and I cluster with them on their plot. My theory is that the fact that I also have 0% Arabian means I am noticeable more SSA shifted (61% EA HG/33.2% Natufian/5.8% NA Farmer) than the somali samples we have, which makes sense considering my clan lives in the interior far from the coast where Yemeni influence is high (SL and northern PL).

I think I'm even more SSA shifted and closer to kenyan somalis than the user Saeed.

Show Spoiler

@drobbah , If you dont mind could you run some basic ancestry tests on my numbers? In particular how I compare to user Mujahid who is a southern Marehan while I'm a central Marehan with no Jubaland/NFD ancestors as well as where I plot in the PCA plot you ran with Saeed. I think I will be close to him and maybe even more SSA shifted.

My scaled co-ordinates

Show Spoiler

Target: DMA_scaled

Distance: 7.4047% / 0.07404729

52.4 Dinka

34.4 Levant_PPNB

6.8 ETH_4500BP

6.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 7.9219% / 0.07921853

58.0 Dinka

34.8 Levant_PPNB

7.0 MAR_Taforalt

0.2 ETH_4500BP

You get more Mota than me

Your result on IllustrativeDNA is pretty similar to mine though.

Ask to be put on the African PCA in this thread to see how you cluster with other Somali users: [Bad Link]
drobbah 6/7/2023 4:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Do you know this new J2 Somali sample?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z482/

It’s a self declared Ashraaf who was banned from the forum
drobbah 6/7/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Hi guys, I have been lazily lurking until today when I got my G25 co-ordinates and did some runs. Some thing I cant quite get the hang of is how I'm far closer to Somali Kenyans than I am to Somali samples despite having 0% Mota. My closest modern pop on Illustrative is Somali_Kenya and I cluster with them on their plot. My theory is that the fact that I also have 0% Arabian means I am noticeable more SSA shifted (61% EA HG/33.2% Natufian/5.8% NA Farmer) than the somali samples we have, which makes sense considering my clan lives in the interior far from the coast where Yemeni influence is high (SL and northern PL).

I think I'm even more SSA shifted and closer to kenyan somalis than the user Saeed.

Show Spoiler

@drobbah , If you dont mind could you run some basic ancestry tests on my numbers? In particular how I compare to user Mujahid who is a southern Marehan while I'm a central Marehan with no Jubaland/NFD ancestors as well as where I plot in the PCA plot you ran with Saeed. I think I will be close to him and maybe even more SSA shifted.

My scaled co-ordinates

Show Spoiler

You don't seem to have much Mota ancestry but you do have a pretty bad fit.Is this from a 23&Me V5 kit?

Ancient Breakdown:

Code:

Target: DMA_scaled

Distance: 6.4181% / 0.06418053

57.4 South_Sudanese

39.0 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

2.2 Ganj_Dareh_N

1.4 ETH_Mota

My results in comparison (My mota ancestry is also confirmed via qpadm):

Code:

Target: FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 5.3275% / 0.05327543

51.4 South_Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

4.8 ETH_Mota

4.4 Ganj_Dareh_N

Cushitic vs Arabian model:

Code:

Target: DMA_scaled

Distance: 2.6345% / 0.02634544

97.0 Cushitic

3.0 Yemeni_Mahra

My results in same model for comparison purposes:

Code:

Target: Drobbah_FTDNA_scaled

Distance: 2.0557% / 0.02055668

92.0 Cushitic

8.0 Yemeni_Mahra

You plot closer to the more SSA Kenyan "Somali" samples but they have significant Borana admixture (heavy Mota) unlike you which is why you drift away from them.There's a few other Southern Somalis who are similar to you (with 0% Mota) but also have pretty bad fits.We are clearly missing something tbh
drobbah 6/7/2023 6:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

far from the coast where Yemeni influence is high (SL and northern PL).

Both my parents are from interior clans but my mothers side has recent known Arabian ancestry which explains her high Arabian (although levels to the regular PL samples).My father has similar Arabian to you but far more Mota shifted.Northern PL and Eastern SL seems to have high levels of Yemeni admixture regardless if they are coastal or not.

Here's an Cibraan Isaaq from Toghdheer vs my father (Fafaan DDS & Gabiley region) for ancient breakdown:

Code:

Target: Toghdheer_Somaliland

Distance: 5.4772% / 0.05477152

47.6 South_Sudanese

44.6 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

6.6 Ganj_Dareh_N

1.2 ETH_Mota

Target: Father

Distance: 5.9494% / 0.05949413

49.6 South_Sudanese

39.4 Levant_Natufian_EpiP

7.8 ETH_Mota

3.2 Ganj_Dareh_N

Cushitic vs Arabian:

Code:

Target: Toghdheer_Somaliland

Distance: 2.7180% / 0.02718044

84.2 Cushitic

15.8 Yemeni_Mahra

Target: Father

Distance: 1.8955% / 0.01895549

97.2 Cushitic

2.8 Yemeni_Mahra
capsian 6/7/2023 6:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

You don't seem to have much Mota ancestry but you do have a pretty bad fit.Is this from a 23&Me V5 kit?

Hi drobbah yes i notice this because i uploaded my file 23andME V5 in DNA in genisdna but is very bad

Target: capsian_scaled

Distance: 1.7373% / 0.01737326

39.2 Anatolia_Greece_10KYA

38.8 Northwest_Africa_10KYA

8.4 Levant_10KYA

5.4 West_Africa_10KYA

4.8 Caucasus_10KYA

1.2 South_Africa_10KYA

1.2 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA

0.8 Southeast_Europe_10KYA

0.2 South_America(west)_10KYA

Target: sample

Distance: 2.0812% / 0.02081236

41.4 Levant_10KYA

22.6 Northwest_Africa_10KYA

12.0 Anatolia_Greece_10KYA

9.4 West_Africa_10KYA

8.0 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA

5.8 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya

0.4 Japan-Islands_and_Taiwan-Strait_10KYA

0.4 South_Africa_10KYA
drobbah 6/7/2023 6:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

Hi drobbah yes i notice this because i uploaded my file 23andME V5 in DNA in genisdna but is very bad

Target: capsian_scaled

Distance: 1.7373% / 0.01737326

39.2 Anatolia_Greece_10KYA

38.8 Northwest_Africa_10KYA

8.4 Levant_10KYA

5.4 West_Africa_10KYA

4.8 Caucasus_10KYA

1.2 South_Africa_10KYA

1.2 South_Baltic_Coast_10KYA

0.8 Southeast_Europe_10KYA

0.2 South_America(west)_10KYA

Target: sample

Distance: 2.0812% / 0.02081236

41.4 Levant_10KYA

22.6 Northwest_Africa_10KYA

12.0 Anatolia_Greece_10KYA

9.4 West_Africa_10KYA

8.0 Zagros_Mountains_10KYA

5.8 Steppe_Proto_Yamnaya

0.4 Japan-Islands_and_Taiwan-Strait_10KYA

0.4 South_Africa_10KYA

My V4 was bad as well, it gave me more Mota than even my father but with ftdna everything seems fine and results make far more sense.This is why I just bought my wife a ftdna kit instead of 23&me as ftdna tests more snps than 23&me especially compared to V5
capsian 6/7/2023 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

My V4 was bad as well, it gave me more Mota than even my father but with ftdna everything seems fine and results make far more sense.This is why I just bought my wife a ftdna kit instead of 23&me as ftdna tests more snps than 23&me especially compared to V5

so you don't advice example an anyone to transfer his file 23andME V5 or V4 to G25 ?
capsian 6/7/2023 6:30:00 AM

file WGS i think is more good like FTDNA to transfer a G25 ?
drobbah 6/7/2023 6:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by capsian

so you don't advice example an anyone to transfer his file 23andME V5 or V4 to G25 ?

Can't speak for other ethnicities but from the results of I seen of Somalis with 23&me, they get wonky results on G25. FTDNA or AncestryDNA seems a lot better.My parents took AncestryDNA
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/7/2023 10:35:00 AM

@Dave12 are you EV32?

So far majority of marehan sub clans are not tested in Galmudug.
Libaax-Joore 6/8/2023 12:07:00 PM

Yes sir his osman mohamud bah diroble i test him
Libaax-Joore 6/8/2023 12:08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

As far as I know, the other guy is Cismaan Maxamuud. I don't think E-Y18640 is a suitable candidate for MJ, but more data is required for my opinion to be conclusive.

Yes sir his osman mohamud bah diroble I test him
Dave12 6/9/2023 4:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

You get more Mota than me

Your result on IllustrativeDNA is pretty similar to mine though.

Your right it seems. I played around with different models and I have noticeably higher Mota than you in all of them even with bad fits. You are from central somalia?

Originally Posted by drobbah

Both my parents are from interior clans but my mothers side has recent known Arabian ancestry which explains her high Arabian (although levels to the regular PL samples).My father has similar Arabian to you but far more Mota shifted.Northern PL and Eastern SL seems to have high levels of Yemeni admixture regardless if they are coastal or not.

That area was close to or part of Adal territory where Somalis didn't have much qualm with marrying other Muslim horner groups. Northern PL because of Meheri influence from Socotra? I would imagine the arabian influence would drop the closer you get to central geographical "somaliweyne". My own suugo theory but the somalis with the least admixture would probably be those who live in a city such as Qabridahare, far from the port cities and far from historical oromo lands.

My kit is indeed from 23andme and is V5. I already knew it was not the best for G25 coordinates. I might go for FTDNA or Ancestry in the future.

One funny thing I got in Illustrative is trace AASI on top of cushitic and nilo, noise but still got me laughing because I remembered how quite a number of somalis on my 23 relatives list just missed out on 100% somali because of noise.
Saeed 6/9/2023 5:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Your right it seems. I played around with different models and I have noticeably higher Mota than you in all of them even with bad fits. You are from central somalia?

That area was close to or part of Adal territory where Somalis didn't have much qualm with marrying other Muslim horner groups. Northern PL because of Meheri influence from Socotra? I would imagine the arabian influence would drop the closer you get to central geographical "somaliweyne". My own suugo theory but the somalis with the least admixture would probably be those who live in a city such as Qabridahare, far from the port cities and far from historical oromo lands.

My kit is indeed from 23andme and is V5. I already knew it was not the best for G25 coordinates. I might go for FTDNA or Ancestry in the future.

One funny thing I got in Illustrative is trace AASI on top of cushitic and nilo, noise but still got me laughing because I remembered how quite a number of somalis on my 23 relatives list just missed out on 100% somali because of noise.

Me and my parents were born in Mogadishu but yes most of my family is from Central Somalia.

I haven't come across any Somali with lower Mota than me yet.
BluRayHiDef 6/10/2023 12:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Target: DMA_scaled

Distance: 7.4047% / 0.07404729

52.4 Dinka

34.4 Levant_PPNB

6.8 ETH_4500BP

6.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Saeed_scaled

Distance: 7.9219% / 0.07921853

58.0 Dinka

34.8 Levant_PPNB

7.0 MAR_Taforalt

0.2 ETH_4500BP

You get more Mota than me

Your result on IllustrativeDNA is pretty similar to mine though.

Ask to be put on the African PCA in this thread to see how you cluster with other Somali users: [Bad Link]

Hey, I'm new to this space and I've never used the type of software that you guys are discussing. Can you guys explain it to me? I'd like to have my DNA analyzed/ sequenced as well? I submitted my DNA to 23andme in the past. Can my raw data be used by the software?
Saeed 6/10/2023 8:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Hey, I'm new to this space and I've never used the type of software that you guys are discussing. Can you guys explain it to me? I'd like to have my DNA analyzed/ sequenced as well? I submitted my DNA to 23andme in the past. Can my raw data be used by the software?

IllustrativeDNA is what I used: https://illustrativedna.com/

You download your raw data from 23andMe and upload it there (you need to pay $30 to upload it though), that site will then give you some results, but you can also get coordinates based on your raw data from them which is what we are using on different sites to run multiple tests.

So use IllustrativeDNA and get your coordinates from them first.
BluRayHiDef 6/10/2023 2:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

IllustrativeDNA is what I used: https://illustrativedna.com/

You download your raw data from 23andMe and upload it there (you need to pay $30 to upload it though), that site will then give you some results, but you can also get coordinates based on your raw data from them which is what we are using on different sites to run multiple tests.

So use IllustrativeDNA and get your coordinates from them first.

Thank you very much. I will look into this.
BluRayHiDef 6/10/2023 6:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

IllustrativeDNA is what I used: https://illustrativedna.com/

You download your raw data from 23andMe and upload it there (you need to pay $30 to upload it though), that site will then give you some results, but you can also get coordinates based on your raw data from them which is what we are using on different sites to run multiple tests.

So use IllustrativeDNA and get your coordinates from them first.

I've uploaded my raw data to IllustrativeDNA and have paid the fee of ~$30.00. Now, I must wait up to three days for the results. Once again, thanks for telling me about this.
BluRayHiDef 6/12/2023 3:16:00 PM

IllustrativeDNA has processed the raw data of my DNA that I acquired from 23andme. I've listed some of them below; I can't upload more than five new images per post, so I've included only some of the results and my 23andme results for comparison.

I'm predominantly of West African descent. So, I find it interesting that 51.8% of my DNA is similar to that of the Shum Laka foragers, because I was under the impression that West Africans have little genetic similarity to them based on the following quote.

Originally Posted by Ancient West African foragers in the context

of African population history

However, the genome-wide ancestry profles of all four individuals are most similar to

those of present-day hunter-gatherers from western Central Africa, which implies that

populations in western Cameroon today—as well as speakers of Bantu languages from

across the continent—are NOT DESCENDED SUBSTANTIALLY from the population

represented by these four people .

Periodical Ancient Ancestry Breakdown

Show Spoiler

Genetically Closest Ancient Populations

Show Spoiler

Hunter Gatherer & Farmer Ancestry

Show Spoiler

23andme Results

Show Spoiler

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Turqoise 6/12/2023 3:24:00 PM

Awesome results!
BluRayHiDef 6/12/2023 3:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Awesome results!

Thank you. What do you find to be awesome about my results? I'm curious.
capsian 6/12/2023 3:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Awesome results!

He is have high SSA comparison Afro-american i think ?
capsian 6/12/2023 3:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

IllustrativeDNA has processed the raw data of my DNA that I acquired from 23andme. I've listed some of them below; I can't upload more than five new images per post, so I've included only some of the results and my 23andme results for comparison.

I'm predominantly of West African descent. So, I find it interesting that 51.8% of my DNA is similar to that of the Shum Laka foragers, because I was under the impression that West Africans have little genetic similarity to them based on the following quote.

Periodical Ancient Ancestry Breakdown

Show Spoiler

Genetically Closest Ancient Populations

Show Spoiler

Hunter Gatherer & Farmer Ancestry

Show Spoiler

23andme Results

Show Spoiler

Are you Afro-American ?
BluRayHiDef 6/12/2023 3:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by capsian

Are you Afro-American ?

I was born in America, but my father was from Haiti and my mother is from Jamaica. This is what I look like.

Attached Images

20230607_132649.jpg

(1.75 MB, 139 views)
Turqoise 6/13/2023 4:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Thank you. What do you find to be awesome about my results? I'm curious.

Just cool in general haha. Might also try this since the infographics look cool
drobbah 6/13/2023 4:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Your right it seems. I played around with different models and I have noticeably higher Mota than you in all of them even with bad fits. You are from central somalia?

That area was close to or part of Adal territory where Somalis didn't have much qualm with marrying other Muslim horner groups. Northern PL because of Meheri influence from Socotra? I would imagine the arabian influence would drop the closer you get to central geographical "somaliweyne". My own suugo theory but the somalis with the least admixture would probably be those who live in a city such as Qabridahare, far from the port cities and far from historical oromo lands.

My kit is indeed from 23andme and is V5. I already knew it was not the best for G25 coordinates. I might go for FTDNA or Ancestry in the future.

One funny thing I got in Illustrative is trace AASI on top of cushitic and nilo, noise but still got me laughing because I remembered how quite a number of somalis on my 23 relatives list just missed out on 100% somali because of noise.

I have relatives who tested so I know my father’s 7-8% Mota comes directly from my paternal grandmother which means she was roughly 14-15% Mota despite her being pure Somali (& Habar Awal specifically). That’s higher Mota than even the Amhara who hover around the Mota level of my father.My father & I both also get matches with random Oromos from different regions (Wollo to N.Kenya).

My own theory is that the Oromo expansion after Adal’s collapse was spear-headed by groups who were similar to modern Boranas but with lower Arabian than they have now. The Akiisho & Jaarso of Fafaan,Gabiley & Awdal region are descendants of those expansionists who ended up being defeated by local Somalis and via intermarriage with their women spread Mota ancestry in Fafaan,Gabiley & Awdal imo without increasing Arabian by much. Modern Oromos like Afran Qallo of Harar region for example are too Arabian to have passed this Oromo ancestry into the fertile parts of K5 & SL
Bulletproofpride 6/15/2023 1:34:00 PM

The tumaal brother on E-BY8081 wants to join this forum but apparently sign ups are closed he says.
farjanomar 6/16/2023 4:29:00 AM

ASC.

Since it has been quiet, i think is good idea to get a few updates on the brothers waiting for big Y results.

I think Abaq the Ogaden Makahil guy should get his ftdna results very soon, since he upgraded 3 weeks a go. Also the Leelkase sample from nebula, is in the last testing stage.

Can the other brothers update us?
Mcmoud72 6/16/2023 6:17:00 AM

ASC brothers and sisters.

My kit arrived at lab last week after being held at least three weeks by US customs for unknown reasons . They are now working to extract my dna and Insha Allah i will keep you updated on the progress.
SDPP 6/16/2023 12:04:00 PM

We are new to nebula and have a few test processing. How many stages are there? I have listed the processing and up coming test below.

3 Nebula:

Muse dhiriye test- processing

Bahgheri- processing: in quality control

Gheri Kombe- processing: extraction of dna

3 Family tree 37 marker test:sent yesterday

Bah Hayaag, Reer Iidle Guled , Reer Cade Omar all Tumaal/Birmaal

2 Prospects: Nebula test

Harla and Jiraan Kombe traveling from Jigjiga to Hargeisa on the 25th for sports volunteered to take test. Arranged meeting insha Allah with someone there.
SDPP 6/16/2023 12:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The tumaal brother on E-BY8081 wants to join this forum but apparently sign ups are closed he says.

Is it normal to have non registration periods?
farjanomar 6/16/2023 11:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Is it normal to have non registration periods?

I think that happened to me when i signed up. You have to try every week until you allowed to sign up.
Bulletproofpride 6/16/2023 11:25:00 PM

Not sure but farjanomar answered your question.
Bulletproofpride 6/16/2023 11:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

ASC.

Since it has been quiet, i think is good idea to get a few updates on the brothers waiting for big Y results.

I think Abaq the Ogaden Makahil guy should get his ftdna results very soon, since he upgraded 3 weeks a go. Also the Leelkase sample from nebula, is in the last testing stage.

Can the other brothers update us?

You are correct!
Saeed 6/17/2023 5:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We are new to nebula and have a few test processing. How many stages are there?

I took a screenshot when I was waiting for my result and these were the stages:

[Bad Link]
SDPP 6/17/2023 11:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

I took a screenshot when I was waiting for my result and these were the stages:

[Bad Link]

Appreciate it !
Garaacad 6/17/2023 9:35:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We are new to nebula and have a few test processing. How many stages are there? I have listed the processing and up coming test below.

3 Nebula:

Muse dhiriye test- processing

Bahgheri- processing: in quality control

Gheri Kombe- processing: extraction of dna

3 Family tree 37 marker test:sent yesterday

Bah Hayaag, Reer Iidle Guled , Reer Cade Omar all Tumaal/Birmaal

2 Prospects: Nebula test

Harla and Jiraan Kombe traveling from Jigjiga to Hargeisa on the 25th for sports volunteered to take test. Arranged meeting insha Allah with someone there.

Where do you meet all these people? I know some are on your 23andme list of relatives but what about the others?
SDPP 6/17/2023 10:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Where do you meet all these people? I know some are on your 23andme list of relatives but what about the others?

Yes some are on our 23andme and other dna test while others hear about our project and reach out as we are pretty open and transparent in our work and hope to understand how Somalis are connected. We have our older generation who excel at finding one another, you know Somalis will find anyone through connections of others. It’s quite amazing walahi no matter where they are in the world somebody knows someone from so and so clan. So it’s word of mouth and network building. We have many who are on wait list but we don’t have the funds as this is all voluntary work. If we had the means we would test all Somalis, every African, and every human to showcase the ultimate connection of the human race.
s1abx 6/18/2023 12:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes some are on our 23andme and other dna test while others hear about our project and reach out as we are pretty open and transparent in our work and hope to understand how Somalis are connected. We have our older generation who excel at finding one another, you know Somalis will find anyone through connections of others. It’s quite amazing walahi no matter where they are in the world somebody knows someone from so and so clan. So it’s word of mouth and network building. We have many who are on wait list but we don’t have the funds as this is all voluntary work. If we had the means we would test all Somalis, every African, and every human to showcase the ultimate connection of the human race.

You are on FTDNA, right? I haven’t encountered it and I would be interested to see it if you can send the link
Sakhar 6/19/2023 12:59:00 AM

Libaax-Joore that brother has an important project. I'm speaking as an elder here and the last thread was closed as I could see where it was heading.

This Tumaal pushing on Majeerteen needs to stop for once and all. Whether it be those claiming Majerten and having same results as other Darood's but not Majeerteen results or labelling known Majeerteen clans as Tumaal is not good. Tumaal who have Darod results are labelled as Majerten and Majerten clans who have same results as Majerten are labelled as Tumaal. This has to stop and cannot continue.

I plea for some sense.
SDPP 6/19/2023 5:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You are on FTDNA, right? I haven’t encountered it and I would be interested to see it if you can send the link

We don’t have much of a social media presence yet but we do hope to start a website and add some more social media platforms in the near future. Not the greatest in that area lol. But Looking forward to share our findings and stories of the test takers that are open to it including our own.

We are on Facebook and TikTok as Somali DNA Peace Project

FTDNA as the East African DNA Peace Project. Didn’t want to start another Somali Dna project as it would confuse people but the admins that started the Somali Project kind of abandoned it on FTDNA although they carry the Somali name.

CashApp for those who are interested in supporting SDPP or need support paying for a test when we are able.

https://cash.app/$SomaliPeaceProject
SDPP 6/19/2023 5:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

His not tumaal his beesha ali hajile Majerteeen

https://youtu.be/ezw25z2ezEA

Who are you talking about?
SDPP 6/19/2023 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

His not tumaal his beesha ali hajile Majerteeen

https://youtu.be/ezw25z2ezEA

Have you tested any ali hajile, wabeeneye, or nux Mahamud? I know you are big on testing Mjs why not test them if you’d like to know the breakdown?
SDPP 6/19/2023 6:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sakhar

Libaax-Joore that brother has an important project. I'm speaking as an elder here and the last thread was closed as I could see where it was heading.

This Tumaal pushing on Majeerteen needs to stop for once and all. Whether it be those claiming Majerten and having same results as other Darood's but not Majeerteen results or labelling known Majeerteen clans as Tumaal is not good. Tumaal who have Darod results are labelled as Majerten and Majerten clans who have same results as Majerten are labelled as Tumaal. This has to stop and cannot continue.

I plea for some sense.

I am not sure why this always comes back to Majertan? People are testing themselves for their own purposes, please let’s stop making this about one group of Somali people and learn from what the dna results are showing. The Somali people have bigger fish to fry. Let’s learn from history and move towards the betterment of our community. We do not want this thread to be derailed by ulterior motives. To peace and prosperity!
Libaax-Joore 6/19/2023 10:51:00 AM

Am talking about they new e-y18632 result his not tumaal but Majerteeen ali hajile
s1abx 6/19/2023 1:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

We don’t have much of a social media presence yet but we do hope to start a website and add some more social media platforms in the near future. Not the greatest in that area lol. But Looking forward to share our findings and stories of the test takers that are open to it including our own.

We are on Facebook and TikTok as Somali DNA Peace Project

FTDNA as the East African DNA Peace Project. Didn’t want to start another Somali Dna project as it would confuse people but the admins that started the Somali Project kind of abandoned it on FTDNA although they carry the Somali name.

CashApp for those who are interested in supporting SDPP or need support paying for a test when we are able.

https://cash.app/$SomaliPeaceProject

Can you drop a link for the FTDNA project? When I search it I can’t find it.
SDPP 6/19/2023 3:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Can you drop a link for the FTDNA project? When I search it I can’t find it.

Try this link insha Allah:

[Bad Link]
SDPP 6/19/2023 3:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

Am talking about they new e-y18632 result his not tumaal but Majerteeen ali hajile

He is Tumaal, Reer Osman as he shared. Several people have confirmed with him on yfull.

[ad hominem removed by Administrator]

[Bad Link]
Libaax-Joore 6/19/2023 6:34:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

He is Tumaal, Reer Osman as he shared. Several people have confirmed with him on yfull.

[ad hominem removed by Administrator]

[Bad Link]He can’t be tumaal dna already proof his majerteen e-y18632
Administrator 6/19/2023 8:02:00 PM

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s1abx 6/20/2023 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Try this link insha Allah:

[Bad Link]

Jazakallah
Turqoise 6/21/2023 2:31:00 AM

Good evening lads. I did a single SNP test with YSEQ for BY192438 and it came up as "G+". Any ideas what this means?[Bad Link]
Saeed 6/21/2023 3:23:00 AM

Who is the new E-Y18629* result?
Saeed 6/21/2023 3:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

He can’t be tumaal dna already proof his majerteen e-y18632

He doesn't claim to be majerteen though, only he can decide his identity, most people will not change their identity based on these results.
Saeed 6/21/2023 3:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Good evening lads. I did a single SNP test with YSEQ for BY192438 and it came up as "G+". Any ideas what this means?[Bad Link]

@Garaacad can help, I'm not familiar with that company, but it looks like you are E-FT77328 like me.

Still hope you do full genome one day so we can see how we match on the tree specifically.
Garaacad 6/21/2023 4:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Good evening lads. I did a single SNP test with YSEQ for BY192438 and it came up as "G+". Any ideas what this means?[Bad Link]

The G-plus result means your subclade is under E-FT77328.
Garaacad 6/21/2023 4:10:00 AM

[Bad Link]
Garaacad 6/21/2023 4:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Who is the new E-Y18629* result?

The new result could belong to Diini95. He is Reer Aw Hassan and mentioned wanting to do Nebula in the old thread.
Bulletproofpride 6/21/2023 4:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The G-plus result means your subclade is under E-FT77328.

Will you be placed on yfull by just doing a Yseq for $18?

If so can I have the link to the E-BY8081 clade please. It seems they dont have that on yseq?
Bulletproofpride 6/21/2023 4:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

Good evening lads. I did a single SNP test with YSEQ for BY192438 and it came up as "G+". Any ideas what this means?[Bad Link]

Congratulations my brother.
Garaacad 6/21/2023 4:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Will you be placed on yfull by just doing a Yseq for $18?

If so can I have the link to the E-BY8081 clade please. It seems they dont have that on yseq?

Copy-and-paste post from NetNomad on this topic:

YFull is only for whole genome sequencing of the Y-Chromosome. What you tested with at YSeq is just a SNP test. Very different things. You can't upload to YFull with just YSeq SNP test.
Bulletproofpride 6/21/2023 4:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Copy-and-paste post from NetNomad on this topic:

YFull is only for whole genome sequencing of the Y-Chromosome. What you tested with at YSeq is just a SNP test. Very different things. You can't upload to YFull with just YSeq SNP test.

Ah I see, so it will just give you what subclade you would have gotten if you paid for the whole genome sequencing.
farjanomar 6/21/2023 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Who is the new E-Y18629* result?

It could be another reer Reerowhassan, last time i talked to him-was trying to test one his relatives.
Saeed 6/21/2023 8:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The new result could belong to Diini95. He is Reer Aw Hassan and mentioned wanting to do Nebula in the old thread.

Originally Posted by farjanomar

It could be another reer Reerowhassan, last time i talked to him-was trying to test one his relatives.

Hmm we'll see, if they're both reer aw hassan, shouldn't they form a subclade? Diini was even the same sub as the sample we already have.
farjanomar 6/21/2023 9:16:00 AM

It will be nice if they make a new subclade.
Bulletproofpride 6/21/2023 6:43:00 PM

Is this different to YSEQ? It looks more comprehensive. Someone explain this please.

[Bad Link]
diini95 6/22/2023 12:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The new result could belong to Diini95. He is Reer Aw Hassan and mentioned wanting to do Nebula in the old thread.

Unfortunately I haven't done any test with Nebula yet so it's not me.
diini95 6/22/2023 12:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

Hmm we'll see, if they're both reer aw hassan, shouldn't they form a subclade? Diini was even the same sub as the sample we already have.

Yes I'm reer aw Xasan and my sub clan is Reer aw Cilmi if I'm not wrong he should also be Reer aw Cilmi.
farjanomar 6/22/2023 12:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by diini95

Unfortunately I haven't done any test with Nebula yet so it's not me.

I have just sent an email to reer aw hassan on yfull, hope to get an answer soon, who the new sample is.
farjanomar 6/23/2023 12:03:00 AM

MashaAllaah, this is amazing, there could even be a 5th sub-clade of Awoowe E-18629. The second new sample has not been matched with the reer aw hassan sample close to three days now. The new member does not look like he is reer aw hassan, he is from Carta Djibouti. I can't message him Coz he is still new.
farjanomar 6/23/2023 12:13:00 AM

Could this be the mysterious ancient harla, since some of the remnants are said to live in Djibouti.
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 1:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

MashaAllaah, this is amazing, there could even be a 5th sub-clade of Awoowe E-18629. The second new sample has not been matched with the reer aw hassan sample close to three days now. The new member does not look like he is reer aw hassan, he is from Carta Djibouti. I can't message him Coz he is still new.

Why was he placed under the Aw Xassan if he doesn’t even belong on that ancient branch? He seems to be positive for that lineage. He might form his own separate subclade underneath. What do you think?
Garaacad 6/23/2023 2:13:00 AM

A little-known fact about Ciise is the existence of three sub-clans, which the rest know are sheegad. Their names are Urweyne, Wardiiq, and Horoone. Monk307 can correct me here, but Urweyne predominately lives in Djibouti, while the rest live in Galbeed. id: YF120426 could belong to Urweyne.

But much to the disappointment of everyone, the new sample is likely Gabooye, as they often take whole genome tests without notifying anyone.
drobbah 6/23/2023 2:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

A little-known fact about Ciise is the existence of three sub-clans, which the rest know are sheegad. Their names are Urweyne, Wardiiq, and Horoone. Monk307 can correct me here, but Urweyne predominately lives in Djibouti, while the rest live in Galbeed. id: YF120426 could belong to Urweyne.

But much to the disappointment of everyone, the new sample is likely Gabooye, as they often take whole genome tests without notifying anyone.

The other Jabuuti sample is also Gabooye. So you are probably right
farjanomar 6/23/2023 2:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why was he placed under the Aw Xassan if he doesn’t even belong on that ancient branch? He seems to be positive for that lineage. He might form his own separate subclade underneath. What do you think?

Yfull terminology both are private meaning they each wait for someone to match with. In my group E-163949 there now two private SNP samples.

From FTDNA:

He is the ancestor of at least 6 descendant lineages known as E-FT24258, E-FTC21443, E-FTA15178, E-FTC83339 and 2 yet unnamed lineages.
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 3:03:00 AM

Who is testing all these Gabooye? Sister SDPP is putting in work by testing a lot of the Gabooye I believe. She is responsible for most of these new samples we are seeing. Libaax Joore comes in at 2nd place.
SDPP 6/23/2023 5:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who is testing all these Gabooye? Sister SDPP is putting in work by testing a lot of the Gabooye I believe. She is responsible for most of these new samples we are seeing. Libaax Joore comes in at 2nd place.

Yes, most of the Artisan groups are tested under the Somali DNA Peace Project and labeled as SDPP. We also have other kits in Darood groups and Hawiye etc we have tested with more coming labeled SDPP that are not artisan connected. We are quite transparent in our work and have been sharing what test we have taken and plan to take.

I would suggest @garaacad to support rather than blame every negative you come across on these groups. There are Gaboyee who have taken these test out of our project without any connection to SDPP who are doing as everyone else and searching for how they connect to their Somalis brothers and sisters. They all clearly shared their results on platforms that allow it.

@drobbah because a result is from Djibouti it doesn’t mean they have the same tribe lol. Somalis live in all areas of Somalia regardless of clan. If this test was under us we would share. Nothing to hide.

Did you all figure out who sample YF117863 under E-FT420077 is that connected to the Reer warfa?
Saeed 6/23/2023 6:19:00 AM

How do you guys know the guy is from Djibouti? It says he's from Ethiopia?
Garaacad 6/23/2023 6:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes, most of the Artisan groups are tested under the Somali DNA Peace Project and labeled as SDPP. We also have other kits in Darood groups and Hawiye etc we have tested with more coming labeled SDPP that are not artisan connected. We are quite transparent in our work and have been sharing what test we have taken and plan to take.

I would suggest @garaacad to support rather than blame every negative you come across on these groups. There are Gaboyee who have taken these test out of our project without any connection to SDPP who are doing as everyone else and searching for how they connect to their Somalis brothers and sisters. They all clearly shared their results on platforms that allow it.

@drobbah because a result is from Djibouti it doesn’t mean they have the same tribe lol. Somalis live in all areas of Somalia regardless of clan. If this test was under us we would share. Nothing to hide.

Did you all figure out who sample YF117863 under E-FT420077 is that connected to the Reer warfa?

We agree. I am saying the new sample is Gabooye because if he were not, he would have joined Anthrogenica or Somali message boards and told others about his ordering of a whole genome sequencing test (Nebula or FTDNA), whereas other posters are getting giddy, thinking this new sample is Harla.

The problem with Gabooye samples is their unknown origins. A Daarood-Daarood match and a Hawiye-Hawiye match are understandable, but a Gabooye-Dir match is much harder to understand.
Garaacad 6/23/2023 6:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Saeed

How do you guys know the guy is from Djibouti? It says he's from Ethiopia?

He previously put down Arta, Djibouti, as his ancestral province and country of origin.
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 6:38:00 AM

The Ogaden results from our brother Abaq came back. He got this lineage https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

The important thing is that he matched the Ogaden that sister SDPP tested. This means she was always doing the right job despite people doubting her.

The Ogaden he matched is the furthest away you can be in abtirsi confirming that the Ogaden clan is legit. He is Makaahil and the other is Miyinwalaal.

But who is the other guy with the Somali flag from toogdheer?
Garaacad 6/23/2023 6:41:00 AM

The same guy:

[Bad Link]

The same guy:

[Bad Link]
farjanomar 6/23/2023 8:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Ogaden results from our brother Abaq came back. He got this lineage https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

The important thing is that he matched the Ogaden that sister SDPP tested. This means she was always doing the right job despite people doubting her.

The Ogaden he matched is the furthest away you can be in abtirsi confirming that the Ogaden clan is legit. He is Makaahil and the other is Miyinwalaal.

But who is the other guy with the Somali flag from toogdheer?

That's great. Now we have Ogaden SNP. having matched bahgeri and Makahiil ogaden.
Jamson22 6/23/2023 8:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Ogaden results from our brother Abaq came back. He got this lineage https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

The important thing is that he matched the Ogaden that sister SDPP tested. This means she was always doing the right job despite people doubting her.

The Ogaden he matched is the furthest away you can be in abtirsi confirming that the Ogaden clan is legit. He is Makaahil and the other is Miyinwalaal.

But who is the other guy with the Somali flag from toogdheer?

What about the reer Cabdille YF092954 under E-Y18637>E-FT420077*, he's from a larger branch of Ogaden than Makahil and Bah Geri
SDPP 6/23/2023 9:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Ogaden results from our brother Abaq came back. He got this lineage https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

The important thing is that he matched the Ogaden that sister SDPP tested. This means she was always doing the right job despite people doubting her.

The Ogaden he matched is the furthest away you can be in abtirsi confirming that the Ogaden clan is legit. He is Makaahil and the other is Miyinwalaal.

But who is the other guy with the Somali flag from toogdheer?

The other test is Canbuur Guled who is connected to the Tumaal/Birmaal. Learning more of them and have another canbuur guled test on FTDNA that we hope to upgrade if we have the means to. That sample also seems to have STRs that most likely will place them under the same or close clade.
SDPP 6/23/2023 11:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

What about the reer Cabdille YF092954 under E-Y18637>E-FT420077*, he's from a larger branch of Ogaden than Makahil and Bah Geri

He is Reer warfa Ogaden. That’s why I was wondering if anyone ever figured out the other test that matched with him, YF117863.
drobbah 6/23/2023 2:45:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes, most of the Artisan groups are tested under the Somali DNA Peace Project and labeled as SDPP. We also have other kits in Darood groups and Hawiye etc we have tested with more coming labeled SDPP that are not artisan connected. We are quite transparent in our work and have been sharing what test we have taken and plan to take.

I would suggest @garaacad to support rather than blame every negative you come across on these groups. There are Gaboyee who have taken these test out of our project without any connection to SDPP who are doing as everyone else and searching for how they connect to their Somalis brothers and sisters. They all clearly shared their results on platforms that allow it.

@drobbah because a result is from Djibouti it doesn’t mean they have the same tribe lol. Somalis live in all areas of Somalia regardless of clan. If this test was under us we would share. Nothing to hide.

Did you all figure out who sample YF117863 under E-FT420077 is that connected to the Reer warfa?

Djibouti is mostly Dir & Isaaq (even then predominantly Habar Awal). This sample is definitely from your project.Gabooye will soon outnumber Somalis in testing despite being a tiny minority of Somalis
SDPP 6/23/2023 3:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Djibouti is mostly Dir & Isaaq (even then predominantly Habar Awal). This sample is definitely from your project.Gabooye will soon outnumber Somalis in testing despite being a tiny minority of Somalis

Gaboyee are in vast groups thus far as Ydna is showing making them not really a “tiny” minority although that is what is shared. You seem so sure of yourself to assume this new kit who now is not listed from Djibouti was under SDPP.

We must be the only people testing to get his kind of reaction. I’m sure you would rather have us disappear so things can stay exactly how they are. The truth hurt sometimes but that is the only way to heal and move forward.
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 5:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

What about the reer Cabdille YF092954 under E-Y18637>E-FT420077*, he's from a larger branch of Ogaden than Makahil and Bah Geri

Maybe he is assimilated? I mean if this new brother @abaq who is a makaahil matched the furthest away Ogaden on the abtirsi tree (Miyinwalaal) then isn’t this the original Ogaden lineage? I heard from others that a Jidwaaq who took Y37 on FTdNa matched these two Ogaden groups too confirming that Absame is real. @SDPP could elaborate a little further.

The reer warfa looks to be sheegaato (assimilated). We saw a reer Isaaq (Ogaden) with Y dna T on 23&me. This one is another sheegaato (assimilated). They could be Isaaq because the name and the T lineage is a giveaway.
drobbah 6/23/2023 7:03:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Gaboyee are in vast groups thus far as Ydna is showing making them not really a “tiny” minority although that is what is shared. You seem so sure of yourself to assume this new kit who now is not listed from Djibouti was under SDPP.

We must be the only people testing to get his kind of reaction. I’m sure you would rather have us disappear so things can stay exactly how they are. The truth hurt sometimes but that is the only way to heal and move forward.

Gabooye are a minority numerically compared to Somali clans, I don’t know how this is even up for debate
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 8:22:00 PM

@farjanomar @SDPP

There is this Jidwaaq on ftdna that did Y37 and got E-FTC21433.

This same FTC21433 on YFull belongs to a leelkase under Y362403.

Can someone explain this confusion please.
farjanomar 6/23/2023 11:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@farjanomar @SDPP

There is this Jidwaaq on ftdna that did Y37 and got E-FTC21433.

This same FTC21433 on YFull belongs to a leelkase under Y362403.

Can someone explain this confusion please.

The Jidwaaq guy who is not on yfull and Somali Project is (YDA wise) assimilated Tanade/Leelkase because he matches with 2 Leelkase samples. I don't see as a big deal because during war it was not uncommon for related Clans, Sub-Clans, Sub-Sub Clans to assimilate those close to them. I heard this from several Darood elders.
SDPP 6/23/2023 11:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@farjanomar @SDPP

There is this Jidwaaq on ftdna that did Y37 and got E-FTC21433.

This same FTC21433 on YFull belongs to a leelkase under Y362403.

Can someone explain this confusion please.

Walaal I’m wondering how a 37 marker test can show a yfull result? Typically with 37 marker testing you’ll get the most basal haplogroup or branch needing more testing to get more of a breakdown and sub sub clade etc.

Both the Leelkase kits on yfull are under E-Y362403. Is this a new test I can take a look on FTDNA to see if he comes up from any SDPP kits. Did he do an upgrade to 67 or 111 test?

Also Ogaden is a big tribe I wouldn’t be surprised if they like most other clans made alliances and confederations like everyone is showing thus far. Not sure why it’s hard to comprehend lol. There will be matches at the reer level but seems normal for folks to combine to increase numbers, power, and protection. You have to also realize that women of other clans married men of different clans and this also caused unions of tribes or the creation of new ones. There are a lot of Bah this habr that etc.
SDPP 6/23/2023 11:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Gabooye are a minority numerically compared to Somali clans, I don’t know how this is even up for debate

Based on what studies? So and so said theories don’t count. Based on the Gaboyee umbrella newly created they are as large or even bigger of any Somalis alliance or Qabiil. They carry every haplogroup found in the horn and are connected genetically to many clans. Let’s just move on, these studies are bigger than Gaboyee, we are learning of the whole of Somalis, together, to move forward, hopefully together.
Bulletproofpride 6/23/2023 11:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Walaal I’m wondering how a 37 marker test can show a yfull result? Typically with 37 marker testing you’ll get the most basal haplogroup or branch needing more testing to get more of a breakdown and sub sub clade etc.

Both the Leelkase kits on yfull are under E-Y362403. Is this a new test I can take a look on FTDNA to see if he comes up from any SDPP kits. Did he do an upgrade to 67 or 111 test?

Also Ogaden is a big tribe I wouldn’t be surprised if they like most other clans made alliances and confederations like everyone is showing thus far. Not sure why it’s hard to comprehend lol. There will be matches at the reer level but seems normal for folks to combine to increase numbers, power, and protection. You have to also realize that women of other clans married men of different clans and this also caused unions of tribes or the creation of new ones. There are a lot of Bah this habr that etc.

The Ogaden (mikaahil) brother called Abaq matches with Abaskuul Jidwaaq labelled FTC21443 on FTDNA. This FTC21443 on Yfull is a leelkase.

What’s going on here. I’m confused.
farjanomar 6/24/2023 12:02:00 AM

SDPP.

The brothers don't have enough info Coz he is private and only those who are E-Y163949 ( ftdna) only can see him. He is on my relatives and big Y match.

Its only sub branch of FTC21433 of 2 related leelkase (E-Y362403) that's on yfull. The jidwaaq brother is not on yfull.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 12:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

The Jidwaaq guy who is not on yfull and Somali Project is (YDA wise) assimilated Tanade/Leelkase because he matches with 2 Leelkase samples. I don't see as a big deal because during war it was not uncommon for related Clans, Sub-Clans, Sub-Sub Clans to assimilate those close to them. I heard this from several Darood elders.

So that Jidwaaq individual is a Leelkase in origin?

Abaq got E-FTC83339. Why did he match just a Leelkase? Shouldn’t he be matching all the other guys on the E-Y163949 as well? They all as equally distant away from Abaq and the Bah Geri.
farjanomar 6/24/2023 12:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

So that Jidwaaq individual is a Leelkase in origin?

Abaq got E-FTC83339. Why did he match just a Leelkase? Shouldn’t he be matching all the other guys on the E-Y163949 as well? They all as equally distant away from Abaq and the Bah Geri.

The way i see it. FTDNA big Y matches are the your YDNA SNP ancestor up to less than 1000 ybp. In my case and Abaq's case that will be E-Y163949. All my biy y matches are 22 or more or less that have tested E-Y163949 SNP.
drobbah 6/24/2023 12:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Based on what studies? So and so said theories don’t count. Based on the Gaboyee umbrella newly created they are as large or even bigger of any Somalis alliance or Qabiil. They carry every haplogroup found in the horn and are connected genetically to many clans. Let’s just move on, these studies are bigger than Gaboyee, we are learning of the whole of Somalis, together, to move forward, hopefully together.

Name a single city in Somaliweyn dominated by Gabooye. Gabooye are a minority among Somalis. Isaaq,Dir, Hawiye & Darood make up 90% of the ethnic Somali Af-Maxaay speaking population in the HOA
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 12:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

The way i see it. FTDNA big Y matches are the your YDNA SNP ancestor up to less than 1000 ybp. In my case and Abaq's case that will be E-Y163949. All my biy y matches are 22 or more or less that have tested E-Y163949 SNP.

Ah so what I understood so far is

1) The Jidwaaq shares a subclade with 2 leelkase guys who we see on Yfull. He could therefore be a Leelkase in origin.

2) ftdna could have matched anyone under the Y163949 tree with Abaq
SDPP 6/24/2023 12:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Name a single city in Somaliweyn dominated by Gabooye. Gabooye are a minority among Somalis. Isaaq,Dir, Hawiye & Darood make up 90% of the ethnic Somali Af-Maxaay speaking population in the HOA

Bro that’s the thing they are among everyone lol and live everywhere. They just live and do what they need to survive in this climate. Ask an elder from these groups or even your own and you will learn more.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 4:30:00 AM

Hey we got a new sample. He is from Oromia

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 4:42:00 AM

If this oromiya gets E-BY8081 he is Karanle Hawiye. Hopefully he gets it, say ameen everyone.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 4:48:00 AM

Will this Oromia individual stay on the E-Y18629* or can he get moved to another branch?
SDPP 6/24/2023 5:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey we got a new sample. He is from Oromia

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/

So there are 2 new samples under this sub clade or is it the same one changing the locations? Interesting
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

So there are 2 new samples under this sub clade or is it the same one changing the locations? Interesting

Yes two new ones. This morning there was only one new one that keeps changing his flag and iD. Another one just joined now. I don’t know which one is which. I believe the Djibouti guy is now the awdal one.
drobbah 6/24/2023 5:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Bro that’s the thing they are among everyone lol and live everywhere. They just live and do what they need to survive in this climate. Ask an elder from these groups or even your own and you will learn more.

That doesn’t change the fact that they are a minority clan. The big clans outnumber them…yes many Gabooye have connections back to Darood & Hawiye but that doesn’t change the fact that the Gabooye are a minority among the Somalis of the Horn. There are no regions or cities where they form the majority
farjanomar 6/24/2023 5:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Will this Oromia individual stay on the E-Y18629* or can he get moved to another branch?

haha E-Y18629 basal is getting very interesting by the day.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 5:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

haha E-Y18629 basal is getting very interesting by the day.

They are definitely basal. I was put immediately on the E-BY8081 tree. My analysis took place on the E-BY8081 tree. These two will stay on this basal branch.

The Djibouti guy changed his ID 20x. On live tree he is now jubadda hoose kkk. He also blocked people from being able to send him messages.

I was able to send the Oromia guy however. Let’s see what he responds back with.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 7:19:00 AM

The Oromo brother is from wolega near Sudan. He is pure Oromo he says. But he does look a bit Somali he says.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 7:22:00 AM

My theory is that some of the proto Oromo after splitting from the proto Somali had E-Y18629 lineages that spread with them southwards to Lake Abaya and then back northwards with the great Oromo expansion. He was in this group that went north westwards
drobbah 6/24/2023 7:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

The Oromo brother is from wolega near Sudan. He is pure Oromo he says. But he does look a bit Somali he says.

My father was born in that province and one of my uncle’s is half Wollegan Oromo from his mother side. He might have distant Somali ancestry
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 7:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

My father was born in that province and one of my uncle’s is half Wollegan Oromo from his mother side. He might have distant Somali ancestry

Wow that is amazing. Somalis in Wollega. That’s really far to the west of Ethiopia. We will know if he is Somali or not when he gets his TMRCA. I get the feeling his ancestors split from us before there was such thing as Oromo or Somali. The only way I believe he could be Somali is if he descent from Somali migrants but then he would have known. He emphasised 3 times that both his parents are pure Oromo from wolega. His mothers parents are from northern Shoa.
drobbah 6/24/2023 7:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Wow that is amazing. Somalis in Wollega. That’s really far to the west of Ethiopia. We will know if he is Somali or not when he gets his TMRCA. I get the feeling his ancestors split from us before there was such thing as Oromo or Somali. The only way I believe he could be Somali is if he descent from Somali migrants but then he would have known. He emphasised 3 times that both his parents are pure Oromo from wolega. His mothers parents are from northern Shoa.

We will see but right now considering how young our subclade is, he definitely has Somaloid (not necessarily Af-Maxaa) ancestors.There’s an Ethiopian sample on ftdna that belongs to E-FTC21443. Not sure if that’s him or if this sample belongs to a Somali.
Typic 6/24/2023 7:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Bro that’s the thing they are among everyone lol and live everywhere. They just live and do what they need to survive in this climate. Ask an elder from these groups or even your own and you will learn more.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

We will see but right now considering how young our subclade is, he definitely has Somaloid (not necessarily Af-Maxaa) ancestors.There’s an Ethiopian sample on ftdna that belongs to E- FTC21443. Not sure if that’s him or if this sample belongs to a Somali.

Yeh I realised our lineage E-Y18629 is not even that old. Now that you mentioned Somaloid, do you think Rendille and other Omo Tana groups will get E-Y18629?
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Typic

[Bad Link]

They were Somalis like us with similar lineages who also had great skills in making stuff. They somehow ended up getting discriminated when it’s the pastoralist who should have been discriminated if anything.
Saeed 6/24/2023 8:59:00 AM

So there are at least 6 subclades under E-Y18629?
farjanomar 6/24/2023 9:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

My theory is that some of the proto Oromo after splitting from the proto Somali had E-Y18629 lineages that spread with them southwards to Lake Abaya and then back northwards with the great Oromo expansion. He was in this group that went north westwards

\

Nah,most likely lost Somali, big Y testing has been around for many years, by this time we would have seen few Oromos join. E-Y18629 is pure Somaliod.
SDPP 6/24/2023 9:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

That doesn’t change the fact that they are a minority clan. The big clans outnumber them…yes many Gabooye have connections back to Darood & Hawiye but that doesn’t change the fact that the Gabooye are a minority among the Somalis of the Horn. There are no regions or cities where they form the majority

If we look at be big clans as the confederations they are, with their different paternal lines and all then yes you can say they are big. The Gaboyee as a confederation are as big I believe. If we break them down by sub sub clan then yes they are smaller as any group. No way in telling if the correct census is not taken. But I respect your thoughts and agree to disagree for now.
Garaacad 6/24/2023 7:49:00 PM

Fascinating. This is not something that happens every other day.

I hope id: YF120648 joins Anthrogenica.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

So there are at least 6 subclades under E-Y18629?

We will know at the next update where these two new basal samples will go. Do you guys know when the next update will be?
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Fascinating. This is not something that happens every other day.

I hope id: YF120648 joins Anthrogenica.

I invited him after reading your posts. Let’s see what he replies with.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

\

Nah,most likely lost Somali, big Y testing has been around for many years, by this time we would have seen few Oromos join. E-Y18629 is pure Somaliod.

Many Somaloid went southwards towards Kenya. We don’t see Kenyans on our lineage however. I would like to know what Rendille and other such groups get. You would expect some few Kenyans to have the E-Y18629 because this lineage is older than Af Maxa Somalis I believe and could be more associated with the Omo Tana Somaloid groups

I also realised that some of us E-Y18629 members split 2600 years ago from each other at the Somaloid stage before Af maxa (Modern Somalis) were formed. We stayed together all these years despite being nomads. Could it be that we were more agrarian than nomads before?
drobbah 6/24/2023 8:44:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Many Somaloid went southwards towards Kenya. We don’t see Kenyans on our lineage however. I would like to know what Rendille and other such groups get. You would expect some few Kenyans to have the E-Y18629 because this lineage is older than Af Maxa Somalis I believe and could be more associated with the Omo Tana Somaloid groups

I also realised that some of us E-Y18629 members split 2600 years ago from each other at the Somaloid stage before Af maxa (Modern Somalis) were formed. We stayed together all these years despite being nomads. Could it be that we were more agrarian than nomads before?

Proto-Somaloids were Agro-Pastoralists
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 8:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Proto-Somaloids were Agro-Pastoralists

Yes this makes more sense. My tribe is known more for farming than anything else.
Bulletproofpride 6/24/2023 9:42:00 PM

The Oromo guy tried to sign up but it looks like new account registration is closed up he says.
drobbah 6/25/2023 12:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes this makes more sense. My tribe is known more for farming than anything else.

My subclan are know for being agro-pastoralist.We used to cultivate the land but we also owned large herds of cows (and horses as well).It's mostly in barren regions of Somaliweyn where you will find full-blown nomadic camel herders
SDPP 6/25/2023 2:05:00 AM

What do you guys think of the other branch of E-Z813? There are Somalis, Kenyans, and Oromo under E-Z21175.

https://www.yfull.com/chart/tree/E-Z21175/
drobbah 6/25/2023 2:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

What do you guys think of the other branch of E-Z813? There are Somalis, Kenyans, and Oromo under E-Z21175.

https://www.yfull.com/chart/tree/E-Z21175/

E-Y161124 Is the Oromoid branch and spread with the Oromo expansion which is why you can find an Amhara & Marexaan from Gedo for example in the same 800 year old clade. There’s a Garre sharing a clade with a Kenyan Borana as well (700 ybp tmrca)
Malawax 6/25/2023 2:47:00 AM

Hello Walaaloyaal,

I have spent some time reading your posts and I have to say most of the information here is very useful, thanks to the people who started and all the participants.

Overall, the parent thread was very informative, but I was very disappointed how some people are using the very limited samples from YFULL and FamilyTreeDNA to exclude our already marginalized brothers and sister, I was hoping what we learn from these tests will guide us towards unity and help us understand how we are all connected.

Please try to be thoughtful because this is a public forum, what you share here will be preserved for future generations and is currently seen by all types of people including children and possibly members of your immediate family.

This is not directed at anyone or any group, I only want us all to do better and to be kind to each other.

I am the new E-Y18629* that changed location multiple times.

I do not want to answer Qabiil related questions (public or private), but I will try to answer other questions.

FYI: I have no connection to SDPP project, Somali DNA project, or any other project.
s1abx 6/25/2023 2:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

What do you guys think of the other branch of E-Z813? There are Somalis, Kenyans, and Oromo under E-Z21175.

https://www.yfull.com/chart/tree/E-Z21175/

If I am not wrong, one of them is Howrarsame Mareexan who were exiled from the clan and within that period, they assimilated a lot of Oromos. The other is Ajuuraan who live with Borana Oromo and speak it so it is highly likely he is an assimilated Borana. Not sure about the Sool sample but it is probably a Gabooye.
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 3:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

What do you guys think of the other branch of E-Z813? There are Somalis, Kenyans, and Oromo under E-Z21175.

https://www.yfull.com/chart/tree/E-Z21175/

It’s our brother that migrated with us from the Easter desert towards the Horn. I heard those under the Kenyan flag are Oromo. If E-Y18629 is Somaloid than this E-Z21175 could be Oromiod-Konsoid I geuss. Both of us were one at one point in time called the “low land east Cushitic tribe”. Of course this my theory but I’m mostly likely wrong.
Malawax 6/25/2023 3:15:00 AM

No, I am not from Jubadda Hoose, Awdal, Djibouti, or Ethiopia
Garaacad 6/25/2023 3:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No, I am not from Jubadda Hoose, Awdal, Djibouti, or Ethiopia

What is your ancestral province? Are you from Somaliland (which is your ancestral region on YFull)?
Malawax 6/25/2023 3:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What is your ancestral province? Are you from Somaliland (which is your ancestral region on YFull)?

No, I am not from Somaliland. I am sorry bro but telling you the province will encourage you to make a wrong guess of my Qabiil.
Malawax 6/25/2023 3:44:00 AM

Where were you born and how old were you when you left home @Garaacas and Bulletproofpride?
Jamson22 6/25/2023 4:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No, I am not from Jubadda Hoose, Awdal, Djibouti, or Ethiopia

Why did you change your province half a dozen times?
Malawax 6/25/2023 4:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Why did you change your province half a dozen times?

I was hoping it would discourage people from making assumptions based solely on location.
SDPP 6/25/2023 4:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

If I am not wrong, one of them is Howrarsame Mareexan who were exiled from the clan and within that period, they assimilated a lot of Oromos. The other is Ajuuraan who live with Borana Oromo and speak it so it is highly likely he is an assimilated Borana. Not sure about the Sool sample but it is probably a Gabooye.

You are correct Howrarsame is one of the samples would be nice to take more samples to see if it would also go under that branch. The Sool sample says he is dhulbahante and is from a well known family. It was quite interesting how he didn’t come under the E-FT24258 or E-FT18668 but most likely not a Gaboyee as none of the many artisans tested matched him. Most Gaboyee fall somewhere under E-Y163928, E-Y18637, T-FGC92488, and J-Y179455 so far.
Jamson22 6/25/2023 4:17:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I was hoping it would discourage people from making assumptions based solely on location.

You had the option of putting the Somali flag without any province. Nobody would've assumed anything.

Now my head is pointing to some sort of Dir that also lives in Lower Juba.
Malawax 6/25/2023 4:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

You had the option of putting the Somali flag without any province. Nobody would've assumed anything.

Now my head is pointing to some sort of Dir that also lives in Lower Juba.

I initially had just the flag and people were already assigning me to Reer Aaw Hassan. I know my actions didn't help the situation, sorry.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/25/2023 4:40:00 AM

I think Hawrarsame will fall under the Somali dominated subclade. Most Hawrarsame Marehan sub clans don't actually live in Gedo. They live in Jihjjga, Doolo and even Nugaal.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 5:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Where were you born and how old were you when you left home @Garaacas and Bulletproofpride?

Scotland. I wasn't born in Somaliweyn.
s1abx 6/25/2023 5:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I think Hawrarsame will fall under the Somali dominated subclade. Most Hawrarsame Marehan sub clans don't actually live in Gedo. They live in Jihjjga, Doolo and even Nugaal.

I have never heard of Hawrarsame living in Jigjiga or Nugaal. They are rare in Galgaduud too, the majority of them live in Gedo. Of course, you are the Mareexan.
s1abx 6/25/2023 5:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I initially had just the flag and people were already assigning me to Reer Aaw Hassan. I know my actions didn't help the situation, sorry.

What’s the point of hiding your qabiil? You yourself said these tests are to help us see how Somalis are connected. The whole point of this and why they list qabiil is to find out the origin of different Somalis. You who could potentially form a new sub-clade and not disclosing your qabiil seems very fishing and leaves me wondering if you are even Somali, or if you even know your qabiil. Of course, you are the one taking the test not me.
s1abx 6/25/2023 5:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

You are correct Howrarsame is one of the samples would be nice to take more samples to see if it would also go under that branch. The Sool sample says he is dhulbahante and is from a well known family. It was quite interesting how he didn’t come under the E-FT24258 or E-FT18668 but most likely not a Gaboyee as none of the many artisans tested matched him. Most Gaboyee fall somewhere under E-Y163928, E-Y18637, T-FGC92488, and J-Y179455 so far.

Do you know his sub of Dhulbahante by any chance or if he is from Galbeed? It is quite weird seeming as no Oromos live in close proximity to Dhulbahante or had a history with them like the other samples.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 5:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Do you know his sub of Dhulbahante by any chance or if he is from Galbeed? It is quite weird seeming as no Oromos live in close proximity to Dhulbahante or had a history with them like the other samples.

He is ancestral to those Oromo samples and likely comes from proto-Somalis.
drobbah 6/25/2023 6:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

He is ancestral to those Oromo samples and likely comes from proto-Somalis.

That makes zero sense
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 6:06:00 AM

The dhulbahante separated 4000 years ago from these Oromo. When this separation took place they were still in the eastern desert.
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 6:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

That makes zero sense

It makes sense if you acknowledge that Proto Somalis were not only E-Y18629 derived.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 6:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

That makes zero sense

How so?

Edit: Seen @Bulletproofpride's response.
drobbah 6/25/2023 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It makes sense if you acknowledge that Proto Somalis were not only E-Y18629 derived.

I agree with that point as there are many lineages that were probably found among them not just our E-V32 clade but it seems he is making the argument that the entirety of the other branches of E-Z813 represents Proto-Somaloids which is absurd for a variety of different reasons.

The Dhulo brother belongs to a clade that separated from the rest of the others of his branch from 2000 BCE. Perhaps his branch was once found among more widespread among actual Somaloids but mostly were overwhelmed by the founder effects of other lineages that dominate Somalis today such as Dir/Isaaq Arabian T, E-Y17859 Bronze Age arrival from the Eastern Desert/Northern Horn.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 6:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I agree with that point as there are many lineages that were probably found among them not just our E-V32 clade but it seems he is making the argument that the entirety of the other branches of E-Z813 represents Proto-Somaloids which is absurd for a variety of different reasons.

The Dhulo brother belongs to a clade that separated from the rest of the others of his branch from 2000 BCE. Perhaps his branch was once found among more widespread among actual Somaloids but mostly were overwhelmed by the founder effects of other lineages that dominate Somalis today such as Dir/Isaaq Arabian T, E-Y17859 Bronze Age arrival from the Eastern Desert/Northern Horn.

I meant other Somalis with E-CTS7146* will form a new Somali-specific subclade of E-CTS7146, with the Dhulbahante falling under that branch.

You are right, though. I was trying to say the Dhulbahante isn't Oromo in origin and got carried away.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/25/2023 6:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I have never heard of Hawrarsame living in Jigjiga or Nugaal. They are rare in Galgaduud too, the majority of them live in Gedo. Of course, you are the Mareexan.

This guy talks about Hawrarsame history and their deqaan in Northern DD's and Puntland.

https://youtu.be/1zQBgWtjFc8
SDPP 6/25/2023 7:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Do you know his sub of Dhulbahante by any chance or if he is from Galbeed? It is quite weird seeming as no Oromos live in close proximity to Dhulbahante or had a history with them like the other samples.

I’ll ask them and get back to you on his sub. He does seem pretty distant to the others below.
s1abx 6/25/2023 7:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

This guy talks about Hawrarsame history and their deqaan in Northern DD's and Puntland.

https://youtu.be/1zQBgWtjFc8

Possible but today the bulk majority of them live in Gedo and even dominate a few cities. I am pretty sure they even stretch over the Kenya and Ethiopia border.
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 8:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I agree with that point as there are many lineages that were probably found among them not just our E-V32 clade but it seems he is making the argument that the entirety of the other branches of E-Z813 represents Proto-Somaloids which is absurd for a variety of different reasons.

The Dhulo brother belongs to a clade that separated from the rest of the others of his branch from 2000 BCE. Perhaps his branch was once found among more widespread among actual Somaloids but mostly were overwhelmed by the founder effects of other lineages that dominate Somalis today such as Dir/Isaaq Arabian T, E-Y17859 Bronze Age arrival from the Eastern Desert/Northern Horn.

I agree with you but I believe all of them were Bronze age arrivals. The separation between the dhulbahante and other Oromo happend way back at the eastern desert 4000 years ago before the existence of E-Y17859. All these E-Z813 lineages arrived recently. The dhulbahante was in the group that would later become the proto Somali group.
Malawax 6/25/2023 9:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

The only way to counter this is by doing the cheap yseq $18 for a bunch of your closest clansmen to see if they fit the others on the other branch. If they match that branch you’re the odd one out. In the future you’ll end up having your own subclade as more people start taking the tests.

This is a good option, but I will just wait for now and see where I end up.
drobbah 6/25/2023 7:13:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I agree with you but I believe all of them were Bronze age arrivals. The separation between the dhulbahante and other Oromo happend way back at the eastern desert 4000 years ago before the existence of E-Y17859. All these E-Z813 lineages arrived recently. The dhulbahante was in the group that would later become the proto Somali group.

That’s not true, E-Z813 didn’t arrive in the Bronze Age as one of the Kenyan Neolithic Pastoralist samples (3300 years old) was found to be E-Z813*. This sample clearly arrived with the main wave of Cushitic pastoralists who entered the Northern Horn ~4500 years ago

Our lineage was still in the Eastern Deserts (probably northern parts in modern Egypt) which is why we belong to a clade that split with E-BY8075 around 1950 BCE. Somali E-FT18121 on ftdna has a tmrca of 950 BCE.We might have entered the Horn ~1500 BCE, later joined a Somaloid speaking group and via founder effect ended up dominating it. This is my current theory.There’s plenty of evidence at that time period (~1500 BCE) of pastoralists fleeing the Northern end of the Eastern Desert and heading south into parts of Sudan/Eritrea

There are clearly branches of E-Z813 that were here before others. It’s only our branch of E-Y18629 which split in Northern Africa with an Egyptian /NW Saudi branch.
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 8:50:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

That’s not true, E-Z813 didn’t arrive in the Bronze Age as one of the Kenyan Neolithic Pastoralist samples (3300 years old) was found to be E-Z813*. This sample clearly arrived with the main wave of Cushitic pastoralists who entered the Northern Horn ~4500 years ago

Our lineage was still in the Eastern Deserts (probably northern parts in modern Egypt) which is why we belong to a clade that split with E-BY8075 around 1950 BCE. Somali E-FT18121 on ftdna has a tmrca of 950 BCE.We might have entered the Horn ~1500 BCE, later joined a Somaloid speaking group and via founder effect ended up dominating it. This is my current theory.There’s plenty of evidence at that time period (~1500 BCE) of pastoralists fleeing the Northern end of the Eastern Desert and heading south into parts of Sudan/Eritrea

There are clearly branches of E-Z813 that were here before others. It’s only our branch of E-Y18629 which split in Northern Africa with an Egyptian /NW Saudi branch.

Oh I see, but isn’t the Kenyan Neolithic Pastoralist sample within the Bronze Age time frame? Bronze Age starts from 2000 BCE. That’s 4000 years ago. That pastoralist therefore would be placed in the 1300 BCE Bronze Age timeframe while we entered the horn according to you 1500 BCE that’s 3500 years ago similar to the Neolithic pastoralist.
drobbah 6/25/2023 9:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Oh I see, but isn’t the Kenyan Neolithic Pastoralist samples within the Bronze Age time frame? Bronze Age starts from 2000 BCE. That’s 4000 years ago. That pastoralist therefore would be placed in the 1300 BCE timeframe while we entered the horn according to you 1500 BCE that’s 3500 years ago similar to the Neolithic pastoralist.

The E-Z813 sample is 3300 years old in Central Kenya (older than all the rest of the E-M293 PN samples).It took Cushites sometime to settle the Horn and then venture South into SE African (Kenya,Tanzania etc)The Cushites only arrived in Kenya ~1500 BCE which is when domesticated cow remains start showing up in Kenya.So this E-Z813 fellow was apart of one of the first pastoralist waves in Kenya
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 9:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The E-Z813 sample is 3300 years old in Central Kenya (older than all the rest of the E-M293 PN samples).It took Cushites sometime to settle the Horn and then venture South into SE African (Kenya,Tanzania etc)The Cushites only arrived in Kenya ~1500 BCE which is when domesticated cow remains start showing up in Kenya.So this E-Z813 fellow was apart of one of the first pastoralist waves in Kenya

Didn’t the Kadruka study show that some pastoralists went directly from Nubia to South east Africa bypassing the Horn or am I missing something?
drobbah 6/25/2023 10:04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Didn’t the Kadruka study show that some pastoralists went directly from Nubia to South east Africa bypassing the Horn or am I missing something?

That might have been possible for those two non-Cushitic Early Pasotralists samples. Even the original Prendergast study doesn’t believe those Early Pastoralists had anything to do with the later Cushites PN samples that arrived 1500 years later.

The Cushitic entrance to the Horn and SE Africa is easy to see in the archeological record.
Bulletproofpride 6/25/2023 10:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

That might have been possible for those two non-Cushitic Early Pasotralists samples. Even the original Prendergast study doesn’t believe those Early Pastoralists had anything to do with the later Cushites PN samples that arrived 1500 years later.

The Cushitic entrance to the Horn and SE Africa is easy to see in the archeological record.

This is becoming really complicated. So those pastoralist from the south that matched the Kadruka were not Cushites?

One thing is guaranteed our lineage arrived in the Horn 3500 years ago max. That’s because of the Egyptian we share an ancestor with at 3500 ago timeframe.

This is the same time (3300 ybp) we see pastoralist in Kenya.

This all could mean that we did come in waves but there wasn’t really that much of a gap in between these migrants. It’s also not necessarily for the Kenyan pastoralists to have stayed in the Horn for a long stretch of time before reaching Kenya. They could have bypassed it real quick.
Malawax 6/25/2023 11:35:00 PM

No new subclade yet but the analysis for my sample has been completed.

I am Hawiye – Hirraab – Mudulood - Abgaal.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 11:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No new subclade yet but the analysis for my sample has been completed.

I am Hawiye – Hirraab – Mudulood - Abgaal.

Thanks for sharing. Are you from Galgaduud or Banaadir?
Malawax 6/25/2023 11:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Thanks for sharing. Are you from Galgaduud or Banaadir?

Deep roots in Banaadir but from Galgaduud.
Garaacad 6/25/2023 11:56:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Deep roots in Banaadir but from Galgaduud.

Bit of a personal question, but are you Waceysle after Abgaal?
Malawax 6/25/2023 11:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Bit of a personal question, but are you Waceysle after Abgaal?

I know your Galgaduud question was indirectly asking if I was Waceysle Yes I am
s1abx 6/26/2023 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No new subclade yet but the analysis for my sample has been completed.

I am Hawiye – Hirraab – Mudulood - Abgaal.

Subhanallah.. What is your sub-clan of Waceysle, I heard some subs might have assimilated some people. Are you that guy on Reddit who I invited a few months ago and said he was Waceysle?

Edit: Never mind, he was L3H2 so you can’t be him.
farjanomar 6/26/2023 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No new subclade yet but the analysis for my sample has been completed.

I am Hawiye – Hirraab – Mudulood - Abgaal.

welcome walaal, and thanks for contributing to somali YDNA history.

How did you here about big Y tests and nebula? from here or other Somali forums?
Malawax 6/26/2023 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Subhanallah.. Are you sure? What is your sub-clan of Waceysle, I heard some subs might have assimilated some people. Are you that guy on Reddit who I invited a few months ago and said he was Waceysle?

Am as sure as one can be. I don't think most people would know much about the Waceysle subclans. No I am not the guy from Reddit.
Garaacad 6/26/2023 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Subhanallah.. Are you sure? What is your sub-clan of Waceysle, I heard some subs might have assimilated some people. Are you that guy on Reddit who I invited a few months ago and said he was Waceysle?

Most likely, his specific sub-clan that is way down in his abtiris morphed into Abgaal. He is not related to any of the clans that live in Galgaduud.
s1abx 6/26/2023 12:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Am as sure as one can be. I don't think most people would know much about the Waceysle subclans. No I am not the guy from Reddit.

I am Abgaal sxb soo daay. I know everything about Abgaal sub-clans. I have heard rumours before specific sub-clans have assimilated a few people historically but I didn’t think they had any base to it.
Garaacad 6/26/2023 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Most likely, his specific sub-clan (that is way down in his abtiris) morphed into Abgaal. He is not related to any of the clans that live in Galgaduud.

I do not mean to offend you, Malawax.

I am strictly talking about DNA here and nothing else.
s1abx 6/26/2023 12:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Most likely, his specific sub-clan (that is way down in his abtiris) morphed into Abgaal. He is not related to any of the clans that live in Galgaduud.

It would be interesting to see whether new samples match with it. If he has deep roots in Banadir, it is possible but most Waceysle have been there for 100 years and for the assimilation of a person it would most likely be at least 4 generations ago.
SDPP 6/26/2023 12:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No new subclade yet but the analysis for my sample has been completed.

I am Hawiye – Hirraab – Mudulood - Abgaal.

Welcome! Happy to have another Somali join yfull and the dna studies of our people.
Malawax 6/26/2023 12:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

welcome walaal, and thanks for contributing to somali YDNA history.

How did you here about big Y tests and nebula? from here or other Somali forums?

I did 23andMe and Nebula because I got ill with Covid wanted to know if there was something about me that made me more susceptible to Covid illnesses, I found out about YFull on the Nebula website and then did some searches and find this forum.
Malawax 6/26/2023 12:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I do not mean to offend you, Malawax.

I am strictly talking about DNA here and nothing else.

No harm done. Why do you think I am not related to any of the clans in Galgaduud?
Malawax 6/26/2023 12:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I am Abgaal sxb soo daay. I know everything about Abgaal sub-clans. I have heard rumours before specific sub-clans have assimilated a few people historically but I didn’t think they had any base to it.

I don't want to share that information publicly. Are you trying to vet my claim?
s1abx 6/26/2023 12:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I don't want to share that information publicly. Are you trying to vet my claim?

Waceysle is a big clan with some subs historically moving further south or north or interacting with other clans. There are also a few rumours and if your sub-clan matched up with one of the rumours that would have been interesting. Tbh I never even thought you’d reveal your clan. It is your choice though, at the end of the day it is not as if you can be forced to reveal your sub-clan.
Garaacad 6/26/2023 12:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

No harm done. Why do you think I am not related to any of the clans in Galgaduud?

There is a noticeable trend in the DNA results of Galgaduud-based clans; they tend to have E-Y18637.

Saeed (Cayr) is E-FT77328 on YFull, Turqoise (Duduble) also has E-FT77328, with Bulletproofpride (Murursade) having E-BY8081, and Marehan having E-Y163949.
Malawax 6/26/2023 12:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Waceysle is a big clan with some subs historically moving further south or north or interacting with other clans. There are also a few rumours and if your sub-clan matched up with one of the rumours that would have been interesting. Tbh I never even thought you’d reveal your clan. It is your choice though, at the end of the day it is not as if you can be forced to reveal your sub-clan.

You said you are Abgaal, are you on the YFull tree? What is your sub-clan?

I think going deeper into my abtiris is pointless right now because we don't have another Waceysle to compare myself to.
s1abx 6/26/2023 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

You said you are Abgaal, are you on the YFull tree? What is your sub-clan?

I think going deeper into my abtiris is pointless right now because we don't have another Waceysle to compare myself to.

Not yet. I am Wacbudhan though. It is obvious Waceysle will be the same as the other Abgaal and Hiraab results we have right now which is why sub-clan is important. I have a pretty good guess at which one you are though already.
Malawax 6/26/2023 1:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Not yet. I am Wacbudhan though. It is obvious Waceysle will be the same as the other Abgaal and Hiraab results we have right now which is why sub-clan is important. I have a pretty good guess at which one you are though already.

The only Wacbuudhans I am familiar with are Glamaax Yoonis (Celi and Mataan) and Daa'uud. Who is the Abgaal on the tree you are referring to?

I know what your guess will be and will be wrong
s1abx 6/26/2023 1:10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

The only Wacbuudhans I am familiar with are Glamaax Yoonis (Celi and Mataan) and Daa'uud. Who is the Abgaal on the tree you are referring to?

I know what your guess will be and will be wrong

That is nice. There are 2 Abgaal samples, one is active on this forum and is Warsangeli, the other no idea but I heard he was Harti Abgaal too and they form a subclade with a 450 years TMRCA. I think you are Macalin Dhiblawe or Cali Gaaf.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y177088/
Garaacad 6/26/2023 1:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

The only Wacbuudhans I am familiar with are Glamaax Yoonis (Celi and Mataan) and Daa'uud. Who is the Abgaal on the tree you are referring to?

I know what your guess will be and will be wrong

Id: YF064431, otherwise known by the moniker, Omaar, is a user of this forum and does not like mentioning his clan, but the other sample next to him is Harti Abgaal.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/26/2023 1:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

There is a noticeable trend in the DNA results of Galgaduud-based clans; they tend to have E-Y18637.

Saeed (Cayr) is E-FT77328 on YFull, Turqoise (Duduble) also has E-FT77328, with Bulletproofpride (Murursade) having E-BY8081, and Marehan having E-Y163949.

Yes Galgaduud is E18632 majority I think.
Malawax 6/26/2023 1:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

That is nice. There are 2 Abgaal samples, one is active on this forum and is Warsangeli, the other no idea but I heard he was Harti Abgaal too and they form a subclade with a close TMRCA. I think you are Macalin Dhiblawe or Cali Gaaf.

What, I am not related to Harti Abgaal, I thought my sample would be dull.
s1abx 6/26/2023 1:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

What, I am not related to Harti Abgaal, I thought my sample would be dull.

You are not related to Abgaal, Hiraab, Hawiye. You don’t even link to the Darood, Isaaq and any of the Raxanweyn samples we have as well as the Gabooye ones. The one you link close to is the Reer Ow Xasan as you know and the Oromo. I think your ancestor was one of the original Somalis but how they assimilated and which qabiil they assimilated from is what I am interested in. Anyway, I gather my guess was right.
Garaacad 6/26/2023 1:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

What, I am not related to Harti Abgaal, I thought my sample would be dull.

On an unrelated note, you have to pay around $60 to keep your sample on YFull. I'll refer to @Bulletproofpride as I cannot help.
Bulletproofpride 6/26/2023 1:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

What, I am not related to Harti Abgaal, I thought my sample would be dull.

Mashallah you are my Somali brother related to me via the E-Y18629 grand Awoowe. You are part and parcel of the great Somali race. Please do keep your sample on Yfull. One day more peope will join your subclade and you can see who you relate to abtirsi wise. There is inconsistency with most of us and it’s not just you. I am Murusade and I am closer to Majerteen than hiiraab. It’s all kool and we are learning that our ancestors used to pledge ties and alliances sometimes. Arabs have noticed inconsistencies as well with the way they relate to each other.

Yfull cost me 40 euros to keep my sample on it. Pay when your ready. You got couple of months before they start charging you.
Malawax 6/26/2023 2:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You are not related to Abgaal, Hiraab, Hawiye. You don’t even link to the Darood or Isaaq branches. Anyway, I gather my guess was right.

I don't think that is totally accurate, but I will wear the outcast badge with honor until another sample matches me.

Make your own conclusions bro.
Malawax 6/26/2023 2:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

On an unrelated note, you have to pay around $60 to keep your sample on YFull. I'll refer to @Bulletproofpride as I cannot help.

I already paid the 41.00 EUR.
Malawax 6/26/2023 2:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Mashallah you are my Somali brother related to me via the E-Y18629 grand Awoowe. You are part and parcel of the great Somali race. Please do keep your sample on Yfull. One day more peope will join your subclade and you can see who you relate to abtirsi wise. There is inconsistency with most of us and it’s not just you. I am Murusade and I am closer to Majerteen than hiiraab. It’s all kool and we are learning that our ancestors used to pledge ties and alliances sometimes. Arabs have noticed inconsistencies as well with the way they relate to each other.

Yfull cost me 40 euros to keep my sample on it. Pay when your ready. You got couple of months before they start charging you.

I am here for the long haul.
Saeed 6/26/2023 2:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You are not related to Abgaal, Hiraab, Hawiye. You don’t even link to the Darood, Isaaq and any of the Raxanweyn samples we have as well as the Gabooye ones. The one you link close to is the Reer Ow Xasan as you know and the Oromo. I think your ancestor was one of the original Somalis but how they assimilated and which qabiil they assimilated from is what I am interested in. Anyway, I gather my guess was right.

He's not related to the Aw Xasan or Oromo either, if he was they would form a subclade, as of now he is on his own under E-Y18629 until someone actually matches him.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/26/2023 6:38:00 AM

@Malawax could be related to Oromo 18629 or aw xasan we would have to wait a few weeks to see whether they form a subclade or not.
Bulletproofpride 6/26/2023 6:43:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

@Malawax could be related to Oromo 18629 or aw xasan we would have to wait a few weeks to see whether they form a subclade or not.

We will know by the next update. When is the next Yfull update?
Mujahid Nur Marehan 6/26/2023 10:00:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

We will know by the next update. When is the next Yfull update?

Not sure when the next YTree update is but I'm geussing around every three months YTree asighns the subclades a TMRC or time to the nearest common ancestor , however they asighn new YTree samples subclades as early as two weeks or every month.
farjanomar 6/26/2023 7:48:00 PM

The Leelkase sample is ready, congratulations to our bro Hilmaam. He joined the two Leelkase on Yfull.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y17859/
Jamson22 6/26/2023 8:55:00 PM

Has anyone who did Nebula/Dante tried to use DNAgenics WGS to raw converter?

https://www.dnagenics.com/article/wgs-to-raw

I wonder if the G25 coordinates produced would be paper quality, my 23andme coordinates give me >3.0 distances at the moment despite being 100% Somali
Hilmaam 6/26/2023 8:59:00 PM

Thank you. Most recent family lived in xamar before war. But family origin historically is from Galdogob and Dudub area. My breakdown tribe wise touching on major buckets. Darood, tanade leelkase, muse ali, mumin aden, maxamed mumin, reer xasan xusein. I am working to get tribe info added to Yfull as well.
Gentica277282 6/26/2023 9:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Has anyone who did Nebula/Dante tried to use DNAgenics WGS to raw converter?

https://www.dnagenics.com/article/wgs-to-raw

I wonder if the G25 coordinates produced would be paper quality, my 23andme coordinates give me >3.0 distances at the moment despite being 100% Somali

No it's free to do yourself
Jamson22 6/26/2023 9:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gentica277282

No it's free to do yourself

Can you link me to the right path? Thanks in advance.
Gentica277282 6/26/2023 9:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Can you link me to the right path? Thanks in advance.

Will do when I finish work, I'll pm you how to do it. It's a very easy process
Turqoise 6/27/2023 3:58:00 AM

I've got a lot of macalin dhiblaawe family via my maternal ayeeyo. Would be cool if I could convince some of my uncles to take the tests, or at least the $18 dollar one
Mcmoud72 6/27/2023 7:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

I think Hawrarsame will fall under the Somali dominated subclade. Most Hawrarsame Marehan sub clans don't actually live in Gedo. They live in Jihjjga, Doolo and even Nugaal.

Are joking brother? I used to live and work in Gedo before the civil war, 99% of Hawrarsame and habaryacquub live in Gedo.
Mcmoud72 6/27/2023 7:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I have never heard of Hawrarsame living in Jigjiga or Nugaal. They are rare in Galgaduud too, the majority of them live in Gedo. Of course, you are the Mareexan.

You are right brother, 99% of Hawrarsame and Habaryacqub live in Gedo
s1abx 6/27/2023 8:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Turqoise

I doubt the story is true too, but it's pretty interesting

And no need to use the word wecel bro, let's keep it civil and respectful

No need to be so soft walaal. I’m just describing it how everyone says it.
Bulletproofpride 6/27/2023 11:23:00 PM

@Garaacad @libaax joore. Is that another new Mj on the tree? BY8088
farjanomar 6/27/2023 11:31:00 PM

FTDNA has just made a new Sub-clade for the two Ogaden and the third sample remains on the upstream clade. Maybe that could become Absame clade, we shall see.
Bulletproofpride 6/27/2023 11:37:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has just made a new Sub-clade for the two Ogaden and the third sample remains on the upstream clade. Maybe that could become Absame clade, we shall see.

Is the third sample a Jidwaaq?
farjanomar 6/28/2023 2:47:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Is the third sample a Jidwaaq?

He is a SDPP sample.
Bulletproofpride 6/28/2023 9:19:00 PM

Bit off topic but I noticed while I was scrolling down Yfull a new Benaadiri Somali that was really close to the J1 L859 Hashemite-Quraishi and ZS2121 Ashkenazi contested Nabi Yaquub lineage

He is on this branch https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY180587/

He meets up with L859 and ZS2121 on this branch https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y4349/
SDPP 6/29/2023 10:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

FTDNA has just made a new Sub-clade for the two Ogaden and the third sample remains on the upstream clade. Maybe that could become Absame clade, we shall see.

Not gonna lie, I’m feelin’ the lightning fast updates on here. Before I check over FTDNA and Ytree/yfull I’ma start here Save me the energy and time I don’t have haha. Appreciate it! How do you know it’s a sub-clade and not a whole new clade or branch.
Adalite1 6/29/2023 6:51:00 PM

Did Dhulbahante took a dna test and matched with Oromos? Which id on YFull or other dna sites.

@bulletproofpride
Bulletproofpride 6/29/2023 8:43:00 PM

Originally Posted by Adalite1

Did Dhulbahante took a dna test and matched with Oromos? Which id on YFull or other dna sites.

@bulletproofpride

He is not from an Oromo lineage. He is from an ancient lineage that separated 4000 years ago. Back then there was no Oromo or Somali. We were still in the eastern desert I believe when this separation took place.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-CTS7146*/
farjanomar 6/30/2023 2:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Not gonna lie, I’m feelin’ the lightning fast updates on here. Before I check over FTDNA and Ytree/yfull I’ma start here Save me the energy and time I don’t have haha. Appreciate it! How do you know it’s a sub-clade and not a whole new clade or branch.

Good question, as long as i have been watching SNP. matches, it has been the case, once samples get separated, one will be upstream SNP. and one will be downstream SNP. So if they were trying to give brand new SNP, then ftdna would not match them to begin with.

A good place to check this is Ftdna Discover section for SNP relationships.
Bulletproofpride 7/2/2023 12:59:00 AM

Dhulbahante brother who took YSEQ test came back positive for E-Y163949. He would have most likely joined the other Dhulbahante guys on the tree
Libaax-Joore 7/2/2023 5:36:00 AM

It’s not a new subclade e-by8088 I think yfull updated his sample @step a side ��
SDPP 7/2/2023 10:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Dhulbahante brother who took YSEQ test came back positive for E-Y163949. He would have most likely joined the other Dhulbahante guys on the tree

Thanks for the update, any idea if he will take a more advance ydna test or full genome testing?
Bulletproofpride 7/3/2023 12:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for the update, any idea if he will take a more advance ydna test or full genome testing?

No he hasn’t mentioned it at all unfortunately but anything is possible.
Bulletproofpride 7/3/2023 12:13:00 AM

@Mcmoud you are the Loobaage guy right? When are your results due? It’s been a while now!
Mcmoud72 7/3/2023 6:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Mcmoud you are the Loobaage guy right? When are your results due? It’s been a while now!

Asc, yes I am the loobage brother, so sorry to tell you my kit didn't pass the different quality control tests needed my dna being sequenced ! So they sent me again a new kit and recieved it on friday; insha Allah i will send it tomorrow;

(Nebula Genomics)

Jun 29, 2023, 5:14 PM EDT

Hello,

I see that your new kit has just been delivered to you - Detailed Tracking (fedex.com)

Please don't forget to register your new kit ID and write down your tracking number when you send it back to us for testing.

We can't wait to receive your sample and start the testing process again!

St

Kit reference - NG1KGE---
Bulletproofpride 7/6/2023 5:32:00 AM

Hey guys do you guys know where the Somalis with Haplotype G are from? I know they are from Yemen but which group in Somalia are they? Are they Qandershe?
Malawax 7/6/2023 7:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey guys do you guys know where the Somalis with Haplotype G are from? I know they are from Yemen but which group in Somalia are they? Are they Qandershe?

I think you are referring to Shiiqaal Gendershe. I don't know their haplotype, but I always thought they were part of Hawiye.

Are you from Xamar?
Jamson22 7/6/2023 7:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Hey guys do you guys know where the Somalis with Haplotype G are from? I know they are from Yemen but which group in Somalia are they? Are they Qandershe?

The famous Ba Alawi priests from Hadhramaut are https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y32612/
Bulletproofpride 7/6/2023 7:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I think you are referring to Shiiqaal Gendershe. I don't know their haplotype, but I always thought they were part of Hawiye.

Are you from Xamar?

Yes I am.
Bulletproofpride 7/6/2023 7:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

The famous Ba Alawi priests from Hadhramaut are https://www.yfull.com/tree/G-Y32612/

How come they didn’t put their Somali flag?
Jamson22 7/6/2023 8:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

How come they didn’t put their Somali flag?

They're Ba Alawi from Gulf countries, Malaysia, Indonesia. I bet if the Benadiri Somalis did yfull they would fall in that subclade.
Malawax 7/6/2023 8:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes I am.

I asked this because I saw an old post where you mentioned Boondheere. I am from Boondheere, are you from or around there?
Bulletproofpride 7/6/2023 9:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I asked this because I saw an old post where you mentioned Boondheere. I am from Boondheere, are you from or around there?

Yes my mother lives near the bilkeyti at the general daud road that leads to isgooska Sinai I usually hang around buur maqaarey and isgooska boondheere.
Bulletproofpride 7/6/2023 9:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

They're Ba Alawi from Gulf countries, Malaysia, Indonesia. I bet if the Benadiri Somalis did yfull they would fall in that subclade.

So the G samples we have from Somalia are ba lawi or are you just geussing?
Malawax 7/7/2023 3:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes my mother lives near the bilkeyti at the general daud road that leads to isgooska Sinai I usually hang around buur maqaarey and isgooska boondheere.

We are related in more than one way, I was born and raised near Suuqa Boondheere. I used to play football at buulo maqaareey, I bet there are people we both know and people who know both our families.
s1abx 7/7/2023 10:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes my mother lives near the bilkeyti at the general daud road that leads to isgooska Sinai I usually hang around buur maqaarey and isgooska boondheere.

I’m pretty sure I know your family���� One of my mother’s friends matches qabiil wise both parents of your mom. Then again, those two sub-clans have intermarried a lot so it is possible it’s a different person
Bulletproofpride 7/7/2023 10:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I’m pretty sure I know your family���� One of my mother’s friends matches qabiil wise both parents of your mom. Then again, those two sub-clans have intermarried a lot so it is possible it’s a different person

There are a lot of Half Murusade Half Abgaal in Mogadishu kkk. My maternal Awoowe lives in Kaaraan. It’s my maternal grandmother who is dawuud Abgaal that live in Wardheegley/Boondheere.
s1abx 7/7/2023 10:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

There are a lot of Half Murusade Half Abgaal in Mogadishu kkk. My maternal Awoowe lives in Kaaraan. It’s my maternal grandmother who is dawuud Abgaal that live in Wardheegley/Boondheere.

I thought your mom was Owbakar? My mother has a friend who lives around there and they are Owbakar with a Dauud mother. I don’t know much about Owbakar subs but is your grandmother Yusuf or Isaaq? This one had an Isaaq Dauud mother who was related to my mother. Also, it might be my memory that is incorrect but since when did Siinay and General Daud road meet? The closest link was Isgoyska Jardiinka where the road splits into 4, one left onto Siinay, right onto Sanca/Geedjaceyl/Kaaran, top onto Suuq Bacaad then Towfiiq and bottom to Boondheere and General Dauud road.
Bulletproofpride 7/7/2023 11:32:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I thought your mom was Owbakar? My mother has a friend who lives around there and they are Owbakar with a Dauud mother. I don’t know much about Owbakar subs but is your grandmother Yusuf or Isaaq? This one had an Isaaq Dauud mother who was related to my mother. Also, it might be my memory that is incorrect but since when did Siinay and General Daud road meet? The closest link was Isgoyska Jardiinka where the road splits into 4, one left onto Siinay, right onto Sanca/Geedjaceyl/Kaaran, top onto Suuq Bacaad then Towfiiq and bottom to Boondheere and General Dauud road.

Yes she is owbakar. Her mother is dawuud reer Ugaas. It’s the dawuud side that live in boondheere/Wardheegley. My owbakar family themselves live in Kaaraan and the country side. My mother was raised by her mother from boondheere/Wardhiigley.

There is a road that separates boondheere from wardheegley. This road also connects isgooska Sinai to taalada (ex parliament). This road is called general daud road I believe.
Malawax 7/8/2023 12:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I thought your mom was Owbakar? My mother has a friend who lives around there and they are Owbakar with a Dauud mother. I don’t know much about Owbakar subs but is your grandmother Yusuf or Isaaq? This one had an Isaaq Dauud mother who was related to my mother. Also, it might be my memory that is incorrect but since when did Siinay and General Daud road meet? The closest link was Isgoyska Jardiinka where the road splits into 4, one left onto Siinay, right onto Sanca/Geedjaceyl/Kaaran, top onto Suuq Bacaad then Towfiiq and bottom to Boondheere and General Dauud road.

There two intersections with darjiino in Boondheere, the one we were talking about is called darjiida Boondheere and the one you are talking about is called darjiinada Towfiiq.
Malawax 7/8/2023 12:23:00 AM

Looking at my HG and SNPs section on YFull, I see that I have 5 private SNPs and 7 SNPs I share with E-Y18629*. Does this mean I share 7 SNPs with one or both samples in E-Y18629*?

I am very excited about this new subclade and wondering who will join me, I hope I don't have to wait months like the Reer Aw Hassan brother.
s1abx 7/8/2023 12:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes she is owbakar. Her mother is dawuud reer Ugaas. It’s the dawuud side that live in boondheere/Wardheegley. My owbakar family themselves live in Kaaraan and the country side. My mother was raised by her mother from boondheere/Wardhiigley.

There is a road that separates boondheere from wardheegley. This road also connects isgooska Sinai to taalada (ex parliament). This road is called general daud road I believe.

Reer Ugaas is Yusuf Dauud, no? I always thought General Dauud started from Jardiinka.
farjanomar 7/8/2023 12:46:00 AM

Yfull live has followed ftdna and gave the two Ogaden/Bahgeri their novel SNP.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTC83339/
Bulletproofpride 7/8/2023 12:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Reer Ugaas is Yusuf Dauud, no? I always thought General Dauud started from Jardiinka.

I’m not sure about my grandma sub but she is Cabdulle Ugaas. Cali Cabdulle Ugaas is her kin who is currently severely sick and in the hospital. Allah make it easy for him.
Bulletproofpride 7/8/2023 12:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Yfull live has followed ftdna and gave the two Ogaden/Bahgeri their novel SNP.

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTC83339/

Good observation bro.
Bulletproofpride 7/8/2023 12:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Looking at my HG and SNPs section on YFull, I see that I have 5 private SNPs and 7 SNPs I share with E-Y18629*. Does this mean I share 7 SNPs with one or both samples in E-Y18629*?

I am very excited about this new subclade and wondering who will join me, I hope I don't have to wait months like the Reer Aw Hassan brother.

I wonder why the Aw Hassan took so long to get his own subclade. It could be that Awoowe E-Y18629 has 7 sons instead of 5 kkk
s1abx 7/8/2023 2:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I’m not sure about my grandma sub but she is Cabdulle Ugaas. Cali Cabdulle Ugaas is her kin who is currently severely sick and in the hospital. Allah make it easy for him.

Yes Reer Ugaas are Yusuf Dauud I think Sugwaay. Allaha caafiyo
Malawax 7/8/2023 3:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I wonder why the Aw Hassan took so long to get his own subclade. It could be that Awoowe E-Y18629 has 7 sons instead of 5 kkk

Hopefully, the wait for the Aw Hassan brother will be over soon, the Oromo brother and I are here to rescue him.

Our assumptions about the E-Y18629 clade will change multiple times before the dust settles. Not even two weeks ago, although I did not understand why Majeerteen is the dominant clan, I thought I was going to join the "Hawiye" designated subclade E-Y18637.

Does anyone have any ideas why there are no Hawiye in the other two subclades but Dir and Daarood are in the E-Y18637? I am guessing because the quantity and diversity of the Hawiye tests are low.
Mcmoud72 7/8/2023 3:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I asked this because I saw an old post where you mentioned Boondheere. I am from Boondheere, are you from or around there?

I am too from Boondheere, used to live near the wiilwaal elementary school where . I went Macalin Cali Biimaalow Quran school. In 1978 we moved to Ajibka Siinaay petrol station.
Mcmoud72 7/8/2023 4:05:00 AM

Brother , where can i see reer aw Xasan subclade ? i would like to share this information with my close friend who is reer aw Xasan who believes that they are Asharaf kkkkkk.
s1abx 7/8/2023 4:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother , where can i see reer aw Xasan subclade ? i would like to share this information with my close friend who is reer aw Xasan who believes that they are Asharaf kkkkkk.

They are the Somali sample on E-Y18629*. They haven’t been assigned a sub-clade yet but they do not match with the existing ones. You might match with the Reer Aw Xasan sample or you might not. I heard their origins are of Tumaal or so.
Mcmoud72 7/8/2023 4:10:00 AM

Very interesting to see the reer aw Xasan Subclade.
s1abx 7/8/2023 4:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Hopefully, the wait for the Aw Hassan brother will be over soon, the Oromo brother and I are here to rescue him.

Our assumptions about the E-Y18629 clade will change multiple times before the dust settles. Not even two weeks ago, although I did not understand why Majeerteen is the dominant clan, I thought I was going to join the "Hawiye" designated subclade E-Y18637.

Does anyone have any ideas why there are no Hawiye in the other two subclades but Dir and Daarood are in the E-Y18637? I am guessing because the quantity and diversity of the Hawiye tests are low.

Majerteen are not Darood DNA-wise and are most likely the offspring of Karanle, Raarane or Xaskul Hawiye who were in Nugaal at that time, we will know once Gugundhabe or Xaskul Hawiye test seeming as Raarane are non-existent. The only other Darood is Ogaden however the other Ogaden match on their own sub-clade on the Darood E-Y163928 sub-clade so it is clear he is assimilated. The other samples are Hawiye, Raxanweyn and Gabooye samples. If there is any Hawiye in the Darood subclade it is clear they are Darood assimilated, likewise for the Dir subclade. Yours is a bit difficult as there is no one to match you to.
diini95 7/8/2023 4:20:00 AM

[QUOTE=Mcmoud72;938880]Brother , where can i see reer aw Xasan subclade ? i would like to share this information with my close friend who is reer aw Xasan who believes that they are Many
diini95 7/8/2023 4:22:00 AM

[QUOTE=diini95;938887]

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother , where can i see reer aw Xasan subclade ? i would like to share this information with my close friend who is reer aw Xasan who believes that they are

for some reason there's many reer aw Xasan that believe they are Asharaf.
Malawax 7/8/2023 4:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother , where can i see reer aw Xasan subclade ? i would like to share this information with my close friend who is reer aw Xasan who believes that they are Asharaf kkkkkk.

It looks like reer Boondheere are taking over the place, it is good to meet you Bro. I went to Wiilwaal from first to eighth grade, I knew a lot of people who lived near Wiilwaal.

The id YF111028 brother is listed as Reer Aw Hassan from Hiiraan, he doesn’t have a subclade yet, but this brother is definitely Somali. All three of us under E-Y18629* are waiting for subclade assignment.

I do not know about the Tumaal part @s1abx is referring to but the Aw Hassan brother is Somali just like anyone under E-Y18629. People bring a lot of myths, try to ignore all that noise and trust what your friend says he is, it is possible that your friend is Asharaf.
Malawax 7/8/2023 5:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Majerteen are not Darood DNA-wise and are most likely the offspring of Karanle, Raarane or Xaskul Hawiye who were in Nugaal at that time, we will know once Gugundhabe or Xaskul Hawiye test seeming as Raarane are non-existent. The only other Darood is Ogaden however the other Ogaden match on their own sub-clade on the Darood E-Y163928 sub-clade so it is clear he is assimilated. The other samples are Hawiye, Raxanweyn and Gabooye samples. If there is any Hawiye in the Darood subclade it is clear they are Darood assimilated, likewise for the Dir subclade. Yours is a bit difficult as there is no one to match you to.

It would be nice if I match with Aw Hassan and/or the Oromo brother to form a new subclade because it will be interesting, plus I do not want to wait for a future test.

It is not wise to speak in absolutes brother @s1abx, you bring a lot of useful information to the discussions, but your colorful labeling of groups can overshadow the good bits. We want more people to do these tests so we can understand the Somali people, telling people they are not what they have been all their lives before even doing the test can be detrimental to the overall goal of getting more people on the Somali tree.

- I am not angry at you for voting me off the Hawiye and Abgaal island - Joke.
Turqoise 7/8/2023 1:47:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

It would be nice if I match with Aw Hassan and/or the Oromo brother to form a new subclade because it will be interesting, plus I do not want to wait for a future test.

It is not wise to speak in absolutes brother @s1abx, you bring a lot of useful information to the discussions, but your colorful labeling of groups can overshadow the good bits. We want more people to do these tests so we can understand the Somali people, telling people they are not what they have been all their lives before even doing the test can be detrimental to the overall goal of getting more people on the Somali tree.

- I am not angry at you for voting me off the Hawiye and Abgaal island - Joke.

Yeah, most here are falling victim to confirmation bias(myself included). We analyse premature results in light of our oral history, and dismiss outliers. Maybe if we get a larger sample size, we'll realise things are a lot more complicated than our oral history suggests
Saeed 7/8/2023 4:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

It would be nice if I match with Aw Hassan and/or the Oromo brother to form a new subclade because it will be interesting, plus I do not want to wait for a future test.

It is not wise to speak in absolutes brother @s1abx, you bring a lot of useful information to the discussions, but your colorful labeling of groups can overshadow the good bits. We want more people to do these tests so we can understand the Somali people, telling people they are not what they have been all their lives before even doing the test can be detrimental to the overall goal of getting more people on the Somali tree.

- I am not angry at you for voting me off the Hawiye and Abgaal island - Joke.

You won't match the Oromo or Aw Hassan, they would have matched you already if there was a connection, you just need to need wait for someone else that matches you which may take a long time.
Bulletproofpride 7/8/2023 9:29:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

You won't match the Oromo or Aw Hassan, they would have matched you already if there was a connection, you just need to need wait for someone else that matches you which may take a long time.

This means there could be more than 7 branches of E-Y18629.
Saeed 7/8/2023 11:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This means there could be more than 7 branches of E-Y18629.

At least 6 according to YFull so far
Malawax 7/8/2023 11:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This means there could be more than 7 branches of E-Y18629.

I am only aware of the current three E-BY155996, E-Y163928, and E-Y18637 plus the three in the paragroup E-Y18629*, is there another known subclade?

It is reasonable to expect more than six subclades, other subclades could have allied with their brothers, cousins, neighbors. Is it too difficult for us to imagine a time where people were forced to drop their lineage after losing war to another clan?

@Saeed I am coming to terms with the reality of having to wait an indeterminate time. On the plus side, the likelihood of the next paragroup member forming a new subclade has increased exponentially.
s1abx 7/9/2023 12:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

It would be nice if I match with Aw Hassan and/or the Oromo brother to form a new subclade because it will be interesting, plus I do not want to wait for a future test.

It is not wise to speak in absolutes brother @s1abx, you bring a lot of useful information to the discussions, but your colorful labeling of groups can overshadow the good bits. We want more people to do these tests so we can understand the Somali people, telling people they are not what they have been all their lives before even doing the test can be detrimental to the overall goal of getting more people on the Somali tree.

- I am not angry at you for voting me off the Hawiye and Abgaal island - Joke.

Noted, I just like getting to the point straight away, no point in sugarcoating everything. Also I’m not trying to “vote” you off being Abgaal, whether you are E-FT77328 or even haplogroup G you are still Abgaal, no one can take that away. Abgaal is a vast and one of the biggest, if not the biggest qabiil so it is to be expected as we have seen with other clans like Ogaden. All I said was there is no one to match you to sxb, I apologise if it seemed another way.
Malawax 7/9/2023 12:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Noted, I just like getting to the point straight away, no point in sugarcoating everything. Also I’m not trying to “vote” you off being Abgaal, whether you are E-FT77328 or even haplogroup G you are still Abgaal, no one can take that away. Abgaal is a vast and one of the biggest, if not the biggest qabiil so it is to be expected as we have seen with other clans like Ogaden. All I said was there is no one to match you to sxb, I apologise if it seemed another way.

I wasn’t offended at all but thank you eeboow and please forgive me for not making that clear.
farjanomar 7/9/2023 3:20:00 AM

@Bulletproof

What happened to the Ugaas nebula sample, it has been as long as hilmaam, but no updates? I am talking about Ogaden/reer Cabdulle guy.
Bulletproofpride 7/9/2023 3:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bulletproof

What happened to the Ugaas nebula sample, it has been as long as hilmaam, but no updates? I am talking about Ogaden/reer Cabdulle guy.

I don’t think he went through with it. Let me confirm with him.
farjanomar 7/10/2023 1:21:00 AM

@SDPP.

Any updates on your nebula samples, any of them at sequencing stage?
SDPP 7/10/2023 1:50:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@SDPP.

Any updates on your nebula samples, any of them at sequencing stage?

Yep, the Bah Gari and Gheri Kombe are both in sequencing. The Muse Dheri kit failed so we are looking for a Halwe Qassim to take his place since there is only one on yfull. Hopefully they can create a clade. We are unable to sample the Muse guy as he left town. Will probably upgrade the other Muse Dheri Dir we have on FTDNA when we can afford it.
SDPP 7/10/2023 1:52:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@Bulletproof

What happened to the Ugaas nebula sample, it has been as long as hilmaam, but no updates? I am talking about Ogaden/reer Cabdulle guy.

Wondering if he could be the sample that connected to the reer warfa? We still don’t know who that is right?
farjanomar 7/10/2023 2:36:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Wondering if he could be the sample that connected to the reer warfa? We still don’t know who that is right?

This is another guy on Sspot. We going to have a lot Ogaden samples this year. One cawlyahan/Reerafgab on this sire said he will take a test.
farjanomar 7/10/2023 2:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yep, the Bah Gari and Gheri Kombe are both in sequencing. The Muse Dheri kit failed so we are looking for a Halwe Qassim to take his place since there is only one on yfull. Hopefully they can create a clade. We are unable to sample the Muse guy as he left town. Will probably upgrade the other Muse Dheri Dir we have on FTDNA when we can afford it.

Thanks, this is good news we are soon going to have two big Y results. Yes it will be nice to have another Halwe so as to see if they match.
Malawax 7/10/2023 3:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

I think you got mixed up with another ID. Were you not the galgaduud sample with ID 120426?

The news on that page is seemingly updates on anything going on in the subclade you are on.

I did not know that and should have been more careful.
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 4:44:00 AM

@SDPP

No this guy is a new one. He wants to take it but I’m not sure if he has ordered his kit yet or not.
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 4:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

I also got the first message about sample YF119391. but, i first visited the yfull to see who's sample it's. You are new, you did not know they send this kind of message.

Is it the Oromo? I’m too lazy to check ��

Never mind I see it’s the Djibouti flag one!
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 4:53:00 AM

The Somali sample from yfull J-BY180587 that’s next to the Quraishi L859 emailed me. He is Baxar Sufi. They live in Xamarweyne.
Garaacad 7/10/2023 4:59:00 AM

What is the clan background of YF121315? Just noticed him.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8085/
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 5:00:00 AM

Another Somali joined the Baxar Sufi.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY180587*/
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 5:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What is the clan background of YF121315? Just noticed him.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY8085/

Libaaxjoore would know this I assume.
Garaacad 7/10/2023 5:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Libaaxjoore would know this I assume.

What is the latest news on the Foorculus sample?
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 5:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What is the latest news on the Foorculus sample?

He is on that stage before sequencing.
SDPP 7/10/2023 6:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Another Somali joined the Baxar Sufi.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY180587*/

Pretty cool. I see there are 3 under this clade. My mother in law is baxar Sufi. She took a 23andme test but she didn’t get a paternal haplogroup so it’s nice to see were some place on yfull. I know her father was a big sheikh so as her grandfather in Mogadishu.
drobbah 7/10/2023 4:43:00 PM

How many Ashraaf are on the tree? On Ftdna I know there’s an Ashraaf that shares a tmrca of 1200 ybp with a Toghdheer sample (Habar Jeclo or Habar Yoonis???). They form a brother clade to us Habar Awal with a tmrca of 2450 ybp
drobbah 7/10/2023 4:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Another Somali joined the Baxar Sufi.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY180587*/

The other Banadir sample isn’t ethnic Somali, he’s one of the Al Hatimi Yemeni Banadiris. I remember coming across his Twitter account before
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 9:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The other Banadir sample isn’t ethnic Somali, he’s one of the Al Hatimi Yemeni Banadiris. I remember coming across his Twitter account before

You sure it’s this one? Because there are many Somalis on the J1 tree.

One of them emailed me. He is Baxar Sufi. They have roots from Arabia but he hasn’t stated what tribe in Arabia he belongs too. In Mogadishu they are part of Bandhawow confederation.
Bulletproofpride 7/10/2023 9:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Pretty cool. I see there are 3 under this clade. My mother in law is baxar Sufi. She took a 23andme test but she didn’t get a paternal haplogroup so it’s nice to see were some place on yfull. I know her father was a big sheikh so as her grandfather in Mogadishu.

Yeh it’s nice to know how diverse the benaadir coast really is. It truly was a melting pot of different cultures.
drobbah 7/10/2023 11:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You sure it’s this one? Because there are many Somalis on the J1 tree.

One of them emailed me. He is Baxar Sufi. They have roots from Arabia but he hasn’t stated what tribe in Arabia he belongs too. In Mogadishu they are part of Bandhawow confederation.

I’m 100% sure one of the Banadir samples was that Somali Al Hatimi individual. I posted about this sample on my Somali J1 thread.

The ethnic Somalis belong to a more ancient Southern Yemeni J-P58 clade that probably arrived around the time Iron & camels were introduced to the Horn
Bulletproofpride 7/11/2023 12:51:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

I’m 100% sure one of the Banadir samples was that Somali Al Hatimi individual. I posted about this sample on my Somali J1 thread.

The ethnic Somalis belong to a more ancient Southern Yemeni J-P58 clade that probably arrived around the time Iron & camels were introduced to the Horn

Yes I understand. Baxar Sufi were not meant to be ethnic Somalis. You can see the Arab in them just like many of the communities of Xamar weyne and Shangaani.

Can you link me the thread about this hathimi J1 please.

Also when you mean J1 Somalis that introduced camel and iron in do you mean the J1 of SDPP?
SDPP 7/11/2023 1:44:00 AM

Asc-Hello all,

Since most of us on here are into dna testing of the Somali people, I wanted to discuss the Somali Project on Family Tree DNA. This project was the first project we came across designed for Somali individuals who test through FTDNA and varied qabils were represented in the project. It was very helpful in the beginning but overtime the managing of the group slowed down. I am concerned that the individuals who started the FTDNA project have since abandoned it and are no longer interested in managing as there are over 40 kits ungrouped going on a year if not more. Each month more Somalis are joining.

Since this is the Somali project it represents all Somali test takers I think it should be a dependable and reasonably grouped time wise. I know it’s volunteer based and it takes a lot to manage but I think anyone on here can help run or become co admins to assure new test takers and older ones have a place to go. I have seen other FTDNA projects with over 10 admins/co-admins. There are a plethora of projects one can join based on regions, haplogroup etc but it is nice to have one based on Somalis where we can list, compare, and learn of our makeup.

Does anyone know who runs the project? Like actually, the real people, and not an email? If so it would be nice to share our concern and figure out how to move forward.

[Bad Link]
drobbah 7/11/2023 3:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes I understand. Baxar Sufi were not meant to be ethnic Somalis. You can see the Arab in them just like many of the communities of Xamar weyne and Shangaani.

Can you link me the thread about this hathimi J1 please.

Also when you mean J1 Somalis that introduced camel and iron in do you mean the J1 of SDPP?

Yes the J1 of the Gabooye communities, T-M70 of the Isaaqs & Dir, the E-M34 found in a Raxanweyn and possibly the E-M34 found in the Isaaq.I think these lineages came in around the same time period which is also around the time period of Somaloid E-Y18629 existed
StrandedFisherman 7/13/2023 3:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Another Somali joined the Baxar Sufi.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY180587*/

Both of them with somali flags are Baxar Suufi
StrandedFisherman 7/13/2023 3:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

How many Ashraaf are on the tree? On Ftdna I know there’s an Ashraaf that shares a tmrca of 1200 ybp with a Toghdheer sample (Habar Jeclo or Habar Yoonis???). They form a brother clade to us Habar Awal with a tmrca of 2450 ybp

Do you know which ashraaf clan they are? And which sub clan? That would help alot
drobbah 7/13/2023 4:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

Do you know which ashraaf clan they are? And which sub clan? That would help alot

All I know is that he is from Marka
SDPP 7/13/2023 4:57:00 AM

The Bah Gari sample we were waiting on has been completed and I have transferred the data to Yfull. “Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

Does anyone know how long this process takes? We generally work with FTDNA, first time using nebula.
drobbah 7/13/2023 4:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

Both of them with somali flags are Baxar Suufi

Is that an cadcad clan?
Saeed 7/13/2023 5:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

The Bah Gari sample we were waiting on has been completed and I have transferred the data to Yfull. “Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

Does anyone know how long this process takes? We generally work with FTDNA, first time using nebula.

I think I got my preliminary result on the same day, it doesn't take that long, maybe like two days at most.
Bulletproofpride 7/13/2023 5:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

Both of them with somali flags are Baxar Suufi

Yeh I know. One of them DM’d me.
Bulletproofpride 7/13/2023 5:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

The Bah Gari sample we were waiting on has been completed and I have transferred the data to Yfull. “Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

Does anyone know how long this process takes? We generally work with FTDNA, first time using nebula.

That’s the 2nd bah Geri we have so far I believe. He should join the other.
farjanomar 7/13/2023 7:53:00 PM

the new Ogaden/Bahgeri is now on the yfull live. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTC83339/
Bulletproofpride 7/13/2023 10:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

the new Ogaden/Bahgeri is now on the yfull live. https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTC83339/

Why is he seperate from the other two Ogaden?
farjanomar 7/13/2023 11:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why is he seperate from the other two Ogaden?

Let's give time for processing and see after.
farjanomar 7/13/2023 11:38:00 PM

@SDPP

How much extra did you pay, on top of the $149?
SDPP 7/14/2023 8:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

@SDPP

How much extra did you pay, on top of the $149?

I see a pending charge for $149. I thought I signed up for a monthly subscription. Maybe this kicks in after the one time annual subscription.
SDPP 7/14/2023 8:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Why is he seperate from the other two Ogaden?

When I checked out the SNP matches on yfull for the older bah gari ending in 119, the new bah gari came up first on the list for him. Not sure how it will change going forward, but seems like all 4 kits, including Canbuur Guled are under E-FTC83339. Hopefully the other Canbuur on FTNDA can upgrade his 37 marker to big-y.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 1:57:00 AM

Who is this new 5th Ogaden?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/
SDPP 7/15/2023 3:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Who is this new 5th Ogaden?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FTC83339/

YF121665- Bah gari The Y chromosome haplogroup of your sample was preliminarily determined to be E-FTC83339. You can view it in the YTree here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163928/

Other kits under this branch under SDPP are 119 bah gari and 244 canbuur guled. Not sure who the new kit belongs to.

Also received results for the Geri Kombe

YF121741-gari khombe was preliminarily determined to be E-A683. You can view it in the YTree here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC47397/

Would be great to have more Geri Test to compare!
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 3:42:00 AM

Guys my Foolculus result came back and it’s under E-BY8081*. Murusade is now officially confirmed to be under this branch as both Sabti and Foolculus are confirmed to be brothers. Next step is to test other Karanle Hawiye branches and then Xaskul & Gugundhabe!
drobbah 7/15/2023 4:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

YF121665- Bah gari The Y chromosome haplogroup of your sample was preliminarily determined to be E-FTC83339. You can view it in the YTree here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y163928/

Other kits under this branch under SDPP are 119 bah gari and 244 canbuur guled. Not sure who the new kit belongs to.

Also received results for the Geri Kombe

YF121741-gari khombe was preliminarily determined to be E-A683. You can view it in the YTree here: https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC47397/

Would be great to have more Geri Test to compare!

Interesting! The Geri belongs to a European branch of E-M81 instead of sharing with the Maghrebi Berbers/Arabs
SDPP 7/15/2023 4:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting! The Geri belongs to a European branch of E-M81 instead of sharing with the Maghrebi Berbers/Arabs

Yes super interesting! I heard there was another Geri with E-M81. Wondering who else will fall under this branch and their story.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 4:12:00 AM

Harar attracted all sorts of people including Andalusian and Sicilian immigrants. This Geri individual is Moorish!
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 6:13:00 AM

The new Ogaden brother replied he is Ogaden cawsha qani.
farjanomar 7/15/2023 7:05:00 AM

[Admin: quotes deleted post]

He could be the brother who wanted to take big Y test on page 162, his handle was EV32 that was in April. He told us he was Ogaden/Cawlyahan reer Afgaab.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 7:08:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

He could be the brother who wanted to take big Y test on page 162, his handle was EV32 that was in April. He told us he was Ogaden/Cawlyahan reer Afgaab.

Yes he could be. He said he made 2 accounts on anthrogenica because they didn’t approve fast enough. They banned him straight after. I find that strange because this forum is not known for that to be honest
Libaax-Joore 7/15/2023 8:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes he could be. He said he made 2 accounts on anthrogenica because they didn’t approve fast enough. They banned him straight after. I find that strange because this forum is not known for that to be

honest

You are workin over time to make e-y163929 the darood subclade
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 8:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

You are workin over time to make e-y163929 the darood subclade

I only tested myself and a foolculus. I have no power to make anything brother.
SDPP 7/15/2023 1:14:00 PM

[Admin: quotes deleted post]

Let’s not start any problems. This thread is useful to us all.
Administrator 7/15/2023 2:31:00 PM

ALL members note, as per the Terms of Service:

3.7 To maximize communication efficiency across Anthrogenica's diverse community, the primary written language in Anthrogenica is Modern Standard English (either American or British). Other variants of English should not be used. Posts written in languages other than Modern Standard English are only permitted in the appropriate dedicated sub-fora catering to those languages . The creation and organization of said language fora will be decided on an in-demand basis and at the discretion of the administration.
drobbah 7/15/2023 7:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

You are workin over time to make e-y163929 the darood subclade

Tbh it does look like it is the Darood clade, yes there are outliers like the Majerteen but it’s not a coincidence that Marexaan,Leelkase, Dhulbahante etc are all falling under the same subclade.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 7:26:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting! The Geri belongs to a European branch of E-M81 instead of sharing with the Maghrebi Berbers/Arabs

How would you explain or interpret his lineage. One is from the Spanish Canary Islanders while the Italians are from the island Sardinia. Could this individual have been Moorish from Spain?
Mcmoud72 7/15/2023 7:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes super interesting! I heard there was another Geri with E-M81. Wondering who else will fall under this branch and their story.

Sheekhaal reer aw Qudub are E-M183 , so i wonder if Geri and reer Aw Qudub are related to in some way since they live in same area in Somali galbeed.
Mcmoud72 7/15/2023 7:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

Interesting! The Geri belongs to a European branch of E-M81 instead of sharing with the Maghrebi Berbers/Arabs

I am wondering if Geri Koombe (E-M81) and Sheekhaal reer Aw Qudub ( E-M183 ) are related to each other in somehow?
Dano 7/15/2023 8:06:00 PM

Warm greetings to you all.
Dano 7/15/2023 8:13:00 PM

@Bulletproofpride, is there any new updates about my clan?
AFG47 7/15/2023 8:16:00 PM

Hello
Garaacad 7/15/2023 8:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dano

@Bulletproofpride, is there any new updates about my clan?

What is your clan?

Originally Posted by AFG47

Hello

Welcome. Are you Somali?
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 8:22:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dano

Warm greetings to you all.

Welcome my brother!
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 8:23:00 PM

Originally Posted by AFG47

Hello

Welcome my brother
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 8:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dano

@Bulletproofpride, is there any new updates about my clan?

Are you the brother from wolega?
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 8:24:00 PM

@AFG47

Who are you?
Garaacad 7/15/2023 8:31:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes he could be. He said he made 2 accounts on anthrogenica because they didn’t approve fast enough. They banned him straight after. I find that strange because this forum is not known for that to be honest

Due to the blocking of my account, I had to use a VPN for a short period of time, but in hindsight, the ban seems to have been an error. Provided they have not broken a rule, I advise new posters to use a VPN while posting or viewing threads on their banned accounts. The problem will fade away with time.
Dano 7/15/2023 9:05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are you the brother from wolega?

@Bulletproofpride, yes I am.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 9:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dano

@Bulletproofpride, yes I am.

Nice to have you my E-Y18629 brother! Most people here are your E-Y18629 brothers.

Your lineage is still unknown as we all those two with you under the E-Y18629* branch. One of them @Malawax is on this thread. He is from south central Somalia while the other one is also from the same general region.
Dano 7/15/2023 9:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Nice to have you my E-Y18629 brother! Most people here are your E-Y18629 brothers.

Your lineage is still unknown as we all those two with you under the E-Y18629* branch. One of them @Malawax is on this thread. He is from south central Somalia while the other one is also from the same general region.

I hope that yfull’s next update will fix this.It is nice to be here! Thank you so much for inviting me here my brother.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 9:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dano

I hope that yfull’s next update will fix this.It is nice to be here! Thank you so much for inviting me here my brother.

Your welcome brother.
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 9:46:00 PM

When is the next update? Anyone knows?
s1abx 7/15/2023 9:55:00 PM

Originally Posted by Libaax-Joore

You are workin over time to make e-y163929 the darood subclade

If every Darood including Ogaden, Mareexan, Dhulbahante, Leelkase, Jidwaaq, Gerikombe all are E-Y163929 then there is no doubt that is the Darood sub-clade. Get Yusuf Darood tested (no need since we already know what it will be) and it seals it.
s1abx 7/15/2023 9:57:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Guys my Foolculus result came back and it’s under E-BY8081*. Murusade is now officially confirmed to be under this branch as both Sabti and Foolculus are confirmed to be brothers. Next step is to test other Karanle Hawiye branches and then Xaskul & Gugundhabe!

Did you do YSEQ test for them, I don’t see it under Y-Full though. That’s interesting though, what is his sub of Foorculus out of curiosity?
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 10:36:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Did you do YSEQ test for them, I don’t see it under Y-Full though. That’s interesting though, what is his sub of Foorculus out of curiosity?

He is on Yfull

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/

He is Hilibi Maxamed the curud (Eldest) of Murusade and the clan of Qanyare Afrax!
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 10:38:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

If every Darood including Ogaden, Mareexan, Dhulbahante, Leelkase, Jidwaaq, Gerikombe all are E-Y163929 then there is no doubt that is the Darood sub-clade. Get Yusuf Darood tested (no need since we already know what it will be) and it seals it.

Geri koombe didn’t get E-Y163949. He got E-M81 moorish lineage related to western Mediterranean and canary Island people
Dano 7/15/2023 10:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

What is your clan?

Welcome. Are you Somali?

Thank you Brother!
Saeed 7/15/2023 11:02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He is on Yfull

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/

He is Hilibi Maxamed the curud (Eldest) of Murusade and the clan of Qanyare Afrax!

He's the Banaadir one? If so why is he not under the same subclade as you? Too early?
Bulletproofpride 7/15/2023 11:12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Saeed

He's the Banaadir one? If so why is he not under the same subclade as you? Too early?

Yes brother he is the Benaadiri.

I am also wondering why he is not joining me. This could mean two things.

1) it’s too early and might join me after sequencing is finished

2) those few majerteen below are murusade.

The 2nd scenario is highly unlikely. I believe this foolculus will form a sub clade with me. I’m guessing TMRCA will be 800-900 years old. This TMRCA will be our ancestor Warwaaq who is 6 generations down from Murusade and 8 generations down from Karanle.
Garaacad 7/16/2023 12:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes brother he is the Benaadiri.

I am also wondering why he is not joining me. This could mean two things.

1) it’s too early and might join me after sequencing is finished

2) those few majerteen below are murusade.

The 2nd scenario is highly unlikely. I believe this foolculus will form a sub clade with me. I’m guessing TMRCA will be 800-900 years old. This TMRCA will be our ancestor Warwaaq who is 6 generations down from Murusade and 8 generations down from Karanle.

The relationship between Foorculus and Sabti might not have been as close as you think. Nonetheless, this still suggests that Foorculus and Sabti had some connection, just not one as close as assumed.

I feel vindicated. We have seen E-BY8081 in Murusade branches, which traditionally have no Majeerteen: Dhaaley of Israfeel and Foorculus. We only need a few more results and then we are good to go.
Garaacad 7/16/2023 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

The Bah Gari sample we were waiting on has been completed and I have transferred the data to Yfull. “Thank you for transferring your data from Nebula Genomics to YFull. Your genomic data file is currently being verified. This will take some time. After the verification is completed, login information for your YFull account will be sent to your email address.

Best regards,

The YFull Team”

Does anyone know how long this process takes? We generally work with FTDNA, first time using nebula.

Who is the next person on your test list? By the way, I discovered a new Madinah sample under J-Y178104. He tested through FTDNA. Do you know his tribal identity?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y178104/
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 1:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

The relationship between Foorculus and Sabti might not have been as close as you think. Nonetheless, this still suggests that Foorculus and Sabti had some connection, just not one as close as assumed.

I feel vindicated. We have seen E-BY8081 in Murusade branches, which traditionally have no Majeerteen: Dhaaley of Israfeel and Foorculus. We only need a few more results and then we are good to go.

I am Sabti while this new sample is foolculus. They are the only two branches Murusade has. They are the furthest you can get between Murusade clans.

[Bad Link]

I am blue (israfiil) and the other is yellow (hilibi). We meet up all the way at red (warwaaq).
s1abx 7/16/2023 1:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He is on Yfull

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-BY8081/

He is Hilibi Maxamed the curud (Eldest) of Murusade and the clan of Qanyare Afrax!

Ah yes, I am familiar with Hilibi/ Habar Maxamed. Would've been interesting if they were Habar Ceyno but it's all the same.
s1abx 7/16/2023 1:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I am Sabti while this new sample is foolculus. They are the only two branches Murusade has. They are the furthest you can get between Murusade clans.

[Bad Link]

I am blue (israfiil) and the other is yellow (hilibi). We meet up all the way at red (warwaaq).

Is that Murusade abtiris? That site needs a login, do you mind screenshotting that
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 1:18:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Is that Murusade abtiris? That site needs a login, do you mind screenshotting that

[Bad Link]
s1abx 7/16/2023 1:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

[Bad Link]

So Fadumo Karanle was the direct daughter of Karanle. How did she marry Hiraab if Hiraab is 9+ generations younger than her? That says Daame but I have never heard that version, it is more logical though.
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 1:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

So Fadumo Karanle was the direct daughter of Karanle. How did she marry Hiraab if Hiraab is 9+ generations younger than her? That says Daame but I have never heard that version, it is more logical though.

She is maternal ancestor of Hiiraab not wive. She married hiiraab’s ancestor who kept her lineage alive because of her status.
SDPP 7/16/2023 2:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Who is the next person on your test list? By the way, I discovered a new Madinah sample under J-Y178104. He tested through FTDNA. Do you know his tribal identity?

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y178104/

We are running dry brother haha. We are gonna have to pool together as a group for more test to keep the momentum going. A Ayuto for dna test lol. Would be nice to have a vote or raffle lol. Hope we can find ways to get funding though maybe through universities, social media, and crowdfunding. Would be nice to test all Somalis.

The Harla samples arrived in the US yesterday. They are going to be dropped off in the mail today. Really interested to see where they go. I forget if they are nebula kits or FTDNA ones.

I want to upgrade some of the 37 marker J1s on FTDNA but can wait on it since they all come up for each other on FTDNA. I don’t think they will go far from our clade. But in the future want to upgrade some of the reer osman j1.

I noticed the new Madinah sample above our clade last night. Thanks for sharing. I will try to reach out. So far the oldest Somali j1 tmrca is 1450-550 ybp. We will see if the new Saudi changes anything. Will keep you all updated.
AFG47 7/16/2023 8:44:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@AFG47

Who are you?

OG Cawlyahan afgaab.

my sample is on E-FTC83339.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/16/2023 10:26:00 AM

The E-163949 lineage is huge for a 900 TMRC, now what's left is to discover E-163949 lineages in Mohaned Subair Ogaden. And the lost Sade sub clans that got asimilated into other Somali clans.
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 6:37:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mujahid Nur Marehan

The E-163949 lineage is huge for a 900 TMRC, now what's left is to discover E-163949 lineages in Mohaned Subair Ogaden. And the lost Sade sub clans that got asimilated into other Somali clans.

Kkkk lost Sade kkk. We are all Marexaan kkk
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 6:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by AFG47

OG Cawlyahan afgaab.

my sample is on E-FTC83339.

Welcome brother! E-FTC83339 is definitely the Ogaden lineage for sure!
farjanomar 7/16/2023 8:23:00 PM

New E-FT420077 sample has been uploaded, from Jubada hoose.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT420077/

@Bulletproof @Nur Mujahid @SDPP.

Is this OG/MZ guy, ''Reer Ugaas'' if true it means MZ is diverse dna-wise. He formed a subclade with the other Reer Cabdulle Ogaden.

Could the third mysterious E-FT420077 sample be another MZ aka (bowdadheere).
s1abx 7/16/2023 10:03:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

New E-FT420077 sample has been uploaded, from Jubada hoose.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT420077/

@Bulletproof @Nur Mujahid @SDPP.

Is this OG/MZ guy, ''Reer Ugaas'' if true it means MZ is diverse dna-wise. He formed a subclade with the other Reer Cabdulle Ogaden.

Could the third mysterious E-FT420077 sample be another MZ aka (bowdadheere).

Who’s the Mudug one and the one without the flag?
farjanomar 7/16/2023 10:10:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Who’s the Mudug one and the one without the flag?

Mudug sample is OG/Reer Cabdule SDPP sample.
s1abx 7/16/2023 10:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Mudug sample is OG/Reer Cabdule SDPP sample.

Ah. I was confused since they don’t live in Mudug. What about the one without the flag?
farjanomar 7/16/2023 10:40:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Ah. I was confused since they don’t live in Mudug. What about the one without the flag?

its the mysterious ( private) sample i talked about in my earlier post.
SDPP 7/16/2023 10:52:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

New E-FT420077 sample has been uploaded, from Jubada hoose.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT420077/

@Bulletproof @Nur Mujahid @SDPP.

Is this OG/MZ guy, ''Reer Ugaas'' if true it means MZ is diverse dna-wise. He formed a subclade with the other Reer Cabdulle Ogaden.

Could the third mysterious E-FT420077 sample be another MZ aka (bowdadheere).

Thanks for sharing. This must be another Ogaden. We know one kit is reer Abdulle /warfa, hopefully we learn more about the other two. What does MZ stand for?
Bulletproofpride 7/16/2023 10:53:00 PM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

New E-FT420077 sample has been uploaded, from Jubada hoose.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT420077/

@Bulletproof @Nur Mujahid @SDPP.

Is this OG/MZ guy, ''Reer Ugaas'' if true it means MZ is diverse dna-wise. He formed a subclade with the other Reer Cabdulle Ogaden.

Could the third mysterious E-FT420077 sample be another MZ aka (bowdadheere).

Yea it’s him. That’s reer ugaas Hussein guy! He confirmed it. Got his results today
s1abx 7/16/2023 11:54:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for sharing. This must be another Ogaden. We know one kit is reer Abdulle /warfa, hopefully we learn more about the other two. What does MZ stand for?

Maxamed Zubeir. Sub-clan of Ogaden.
SDPP 7/17/2023 12:03:00 AM

Since confederations, alliances, and assimilations seem to be the norm in Somali society and Ydna is showing this, how did we go to making or believing tribal connections were 100 paternally rooted and decided we would run a whole nation/people this way? Disliking, dividing, killing and destroying one another.

It really does shake me to know that those who chose to take lives based on qabil may have unknowingly killed someone who was closer to them and continue to do so. We shouldn’t harm anyone or any living creature, but I wonder how our ancestors or those who chose violence and division would feel if they learned what we all are learning now….would they change or is it too deep.

Sorry for the rant but I feel that you all are the only ones that would understand. Not trying to get in my feelings but with each new test and varied results it makes me wonder how things would be. It bothers me that unjustified division is the root of all our failures and misery as a region. I guess mourning is normal lol.
Dave12 7/17/2023 12:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

New E-FT420077 sample has been uploaded, from Jubada hoose.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FT420077/

@Bulletproof @Nur Mujahid @SDPP.

Is this OG/MZ guy, ''Reer Ugaas'' if true it means MZ is diverse dna-wise. He formed a subclade with the other Reer Cabdulle Ogaden.

Why would that mean MZ is diverse? Are there any other public MZ samples other than those two that diverges?
Jamson22 7/17/2023 12:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Maxamed Zubeir. Sub-clan of Ogaden.

Furthermore they're the largest sub-clan of Ogaden, Ahmed Madoobe and Cagjar are both MZ.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/17/2023 1:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Why would that mean MZ is diverse? Are there any other public MZ samples other than those two that diverges?

We only have two Mohamed subair sub clade's rer Isaaq who tested positive for T-L208 and rer warfaa rer Cabdile and rer and rer ugaas Hussein who are rer Cabdile who have forned a sub clade. So far Mohaned subair is a confederation, unless we find E-163949 Mohaned subair samples.
farjanomar 7/17/2023 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Why would that mean MZ is diverse? Are there any other public MZ samples other than those two that diverges?

This is not diverges or outliers. The two samples are completely unrelated persons from the same sub subclan, it's not coincidence. Outliers are individuals

that get random haplogroups and don't form a group of their own.

Note: This happened to Beesha Geri koombe this week also. Two unrelated geri tested for E-M81. One from 23andme/ one from Nebula big Y test.

.

.
Dave12 7/17/2023 5:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

This is not diverges or outliers. The two samples are completely unrelated persons from the same sub subclan, it's not coincidence. Outliers are individuals

that get random haplogroups and don't form a group of their own.

.

.

Yes but they matched. I'm confused as to why you stated that MZ results are diverse when matching is the opposite of diverse.
farjanomar 7/17/2023 5:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dave12

Yes but they matched. I'm confused as to why you stated that MZ results are diverse when matching is the opposite of diverse.

Ok brother no pun intended. Maybe i should use Ogaden instead of MZ since we somalis go by subclan not sub sub-clan.

coming back to your question: Just like Harti, Ogaden are split between two haplogroups.
Bulletproofpride 7/17/2023 6:44:00 AM

I am a bit confused. So only one sub sub sub within MZ got E-Y18637 while the rest of all the other Ogaden got E-Y163949?
farjanomar 7/17/2023 8:01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I am a bit confused. So only one sub sub sub within MZ got E-Y18637 while the rest of all the other Ogaden got E-Y163949?

Because integration/assimilation happened in different stages of the lifetime of the Clan. 100ybp, 200ybp and so on. Imo this case is going to repeat itself as more Clans are tested. some outliers today may turn to become sub sub subclans. It looks like Our ancestors hid from the public, those who got integrated to keep the Clan unity.
Mujahid Nur Marehan 7/17/2023 8:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I am a bit confused. So only one sub sub sub within MZ got E-Y18637 while the rest of all the other Ogaden got E-Y163949?

Correct more or less, most diverse Ogaden sub clans are E_163949 as things stand. However the role of Ugaas rile in Ogaden is upholded by E-Y18637. But as far as I'm aware Makaahiil used to be ugaas of Ogaden especially at the time of Walashma sultanate and beyond .
s1abx 7/17/2023 1:46:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Furthermore they're the largest sub-clan of Ogaden, Ahmed Madoobe and Cagjar are both MZ.

Yep. Most famous Ogaden from politicians to singers are MZ.
Bulletproofpride 7/18/2023 4:32:00 AM

Wasn’t expecting the Foolculus and Sabti connection to be this old. It’s been over 3 days now and the foolculus has still not joined me. I wonder what’s going on.
Bulletproofpride 7/18/2023 4:33:00 AM

Libaax Joore will upgrade the Daanweyne Majerteen to get a better understand of the E-BY8081 tree.
Malawax 7/18/2023 6:07:00 AM

I created an E-Y17859 site for personal use, here is a link https://www.somaliy.com Does it look right?
Bulletproofpride 7/18/2023 6:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I created an E-Y17859 site for personal use, here is a link https://somaliy.com/

Does it look right?

Very nice! Looks very simplistic bravo! You forgot to put Karanle Sabdi Murusade under the E-Y325713 just under the foolculus. I’m talking about E-Y325713. That’s my sample!
Malawax 7/18/2023 6:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Very nice! Looks very simplistic bravo! You forgot to put Karanle Sabdi Murusade under the foolculus sample. I’m talking about E-Y325713. That’s my sample!

Thanks. Can you please update that on YFull? I have updated on my end as Karanle > Murusade > Sabdi.
Bulletproofpride 7/18/2023 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Thanks. Can you please update that on YFull? I have updated on my end as Karanle > Murusade > Sabdi.

Where do I go to do this? I remember Saeed telling me how to but I forgot.
Malawax 7/18/2023 6:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Where do I go to do this? I remember Saeed telling me how to but I forgot.

Settings > Most distant ancestor.
Bulletproofpride 7/18/2023 6:34:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Settings > Most distant ancestor.

Can you see now? Did I do it correct?
Malawax 7/18/2023 6:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Can you see now? Did I do it correct?

Yes. I also added Hawiye.
Bulletproofpride 7/19/2023 3:37:00 AM

@Garaacad

Daanweyne was upgraded today. We should see this old Majerteen clan on Yfull soon within 3-4 weeks time!
AFG47 7/20/2023 12:54:00 AM

When will the analyzing end on yfull ? I can’t view anything on my account.
Sea 7/20/2023 1:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Interesting theories. No way telling as there are Galgale and Yaxar missing from the artisanal or gaboyee groups. I don’t believe the criminal or ostracized stories as the original story was two brothers eating from a dead carcass and one brother spitting it out while another swallowed therefore one of them being ostracized. It seems to be more of a political movement more than anything to me from within or outside. Especially based on how most of these artisan groups are everywhere.

Definitely disgree, as you seen already tumal and madhiban J haplogroup are shared. There hasn't been enough samples to come to conclusions as there is large amount of sub clans that haven't been tested. There are many other explanation that will come to light once we test out most sub clans, but as we can use what we have to make some theories.
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 1:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by AFG47

When will the analyzing end on yfull ? I can’t view anything on my account.

Your the Awliyahan Ogaden?
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 1:58:00 AM

@S1bax @Saeed Why are there 2 madhibaan Gorgaarte on the tree with different lineages to Hiiraab Gorgaarte? Shouldn’t they share a lineage?
s1abx 7/20/2023 2:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@S1bax @Saeed Why are there 2 madhibaan Gorgaarte on the tree with different lineages to Hiiraab Gorgaarte? Shouldn’t they share a lineage?

The only Madhibans under E-Y18637 share a sub-clade which is E-FTB57462. They can’t be Gorgaarte but we have a common ancestor, they are not closer to us than they are to you since we all share a 2600 TMRCA. The other ones on the other branches etc the Darood one are clearly their respective descendants.
Wiilcfs 7/20/2023 4:03:00 AM

Guys, do you know the madhiban on E-Y163928 ? What are their sub clans after madhiban and if they’re tumaal what tumaal clan are they?

It would make it easier if someone wanted to test for the cheaper yseq before they do their y700.
Wiilcfs 7/20/2023 4:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

The only Madhibans under E-Y18637 share a sub-clade which is E-FTB57462. They can’t be Gorgaarte but we have a common ancestor, they are not closer to us than they are to you since we all share a 2600 TMRCA. The other ones on the other branches etc the Darood one are clearly their respective descendants.

E-Y18637 Is very diverse interns of clans with darood, Hawiye raxanweyn madhiban. I think more clans will test in this subclade.
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 4:13:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

E-Y18637 Is very diverse interns of clans with darood, Hawiye raxanweyn madhiban. I think more clans will test in this subclade.

I agree. E-Y18637 is different from the rest because it alone has 6 sons while the others only have 2 sons each.
Malawax 7/20/2023 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

Guys, do you know the madhiban on E-Y163928 ? What are their sub clans after madhiban and if they’re tumaal what tumaal clan are they?

It would make it easier if someone wanted to test for the cheaper yseq before they do their y700.

He is listed as Darood Harti | Dhulbahante | (Birmaal aka Blacksmith). I don't know if Tumaal and Madhibaan are the same.
SDPP 7/20/2023 6:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sea

Definitely disgree, as you seen already tumal and madhiban J haplogroup are shared. There hasn't been enough samples to come to conclusions as there is large amount of sub clans that haven't been tested. There are many other explanation that will come to light once we test out most sub clans, but as we can use what we have to make some theories.

So far the Madhiban are E-18637 and a few J1. The tumaal are under E-Y163928, J1, and T. We have tested most tumaals and madhibaan but I agree more need to be tested. I hope they do so or we find the means to.
SDPP 7/20/2023 6:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

He is listed as Darood Harti | Dhulbahante | (Birmaal aka Blacksmith). I don't know if Tumaal and Madhibaan are the same.

There are few Birmaal aka Tumaal that fall under the E-Y163928. They range from Hayaag, bah Hayaag, reer osman, canbuur guled. From their perspective they are Birmaal/Tumaal but also Darood. Madhiban, Tumaal, Muse Dhiirie Dir, Yiber, Halwe etc are their own clans from what I was told. Hopefully with more test we learn more.
SDPP 7/20/2023 6:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

The only Madhibans under E-Y18637 share a sub-clade which is E-FTB57462. They can’t be Gorgaarte but we have a common ancestor, they are not closer to us than they are to you since we all share a 2600 TMRCA. The other ones on the other branches etc the Darood one are clearly their respective descendants.

Yes I hear some Madhiban claim Mohamed Gorgate. Does anyone have a tree for Gorgate. I am not too familiar but would like to compare. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhiban
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 8:22:00 AM

Delete
SDPP 7/20/2023 10:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This is the most detailed one. [Bad Link]

We need to test Silcis and Wadalaan who I know will be similar to Hiiraab. We just need to to get hold of them somehow.

Here is an elder getting interviewed explaining how the groups are connected. I don’t think it’s correct because the two madhibaan Gorgaarte we have are 2600 years removed from Hiiraab Gorgaarte. I personally believe once Silcis and Wadalaan get tested we will get a clearer picture.

Thanks for sharing. I think, from what I heard, Madhiban are the only ones who claim Mohamed Madhiban Gorgate from the artisan groups. It is great to compare the oral history or stories to what we see play out with these test. Totally agree, with more test, more ideas and possible explanations arise although sometimes it makes sense and other times it doesn’t. Or the need for further testing comes up lol.
s1abx 7/20/2023 1:06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

This is the most detailed one. [Bad Link]

We need to test Silcis and Wadalaan who I know will be similar to Hiiraab. We just need to to get hold of them somehow.

Here is an elder getting interviewed explaining how the groups are connected. I don’t think it’s correct because the two madhibaan Gorgaarte we have are 2600 years removed from Hiiraab Gorgaarte. I personally believe once Silcis and Wadalaan get tested we will get a clearer picture.

That tree is incorrect as Maxamud Gorgarte and Daame are the same person. It’s just a guy and his nickname, it is where Hiraab descends from. It also lists my sub of Abgaal and Sacad as being Wadalaan, I have heard this before but only from one person. Rendille are also listed. I wonder where Mariixan Gorgarte went though.
SDPP 7/20/2023 2:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

That tree is incorrect as Maxamud Gorgarte and Daame are the same person. It’s just a guy and his nickname, it is where Hiraab descends from. It also lists my sub of Abgaal and Sacad as being Wadalaan, I have heard this before but only from one person. Rendille are also listed. I wonder where Mariixan Gorgarte went though.

I wonder where that name Daame came from? I know there is a pretty poor neighborhood called Daami in hargeisa that some of the artisan groups live. Wonder if there is a connection? I never heard of Mariixan Gorgate.

Are Rendille that close to Somalis? Also what is your sub of Abgaal? Have you taken Ydna testing?
s1abx 7/20/2023 3:25:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

I wonder where that name Daame came from? I know there is a pretty poor neighborhood called Daami in hargeisa that some of the artisan groups live. Wonder if there is a connection? I never heard of Mariixan Gorgate.

Are Rendille that close to Somalis? Also what is your sub of Abgaal? Have you taken Ydna testing?

Hargeisa didn’t exist back then, so I doubt it. The split between Somalis and Rendille was way too far ago, I don’t think they even have E-V32 but I haven’t come across a Rendille results yet. I haven’t taken DNA testing yet but I might someday in the future once I eventually conquer the fact I might not be Abgaal.
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 3:48:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

That tree is incorrect as Maxamud Gorgarte and Daame are the same person. It’s just a guy and his nickname, it is where Hiraab descends from. It also lists my sub of Abgaal and Sacad as being Wadalaan, I have heard this before but only from one person. Rendille are also listed. I wonder where Mariixan Gorgarte went though.

That Rendille you see is different from the ones in Kenya

Also Silcis is Curud and they don’t have daame in their abtirsi.

Gorgarte is split into 5

1 maxamed gorgarte

2 maxamud gorgarte

3 dame gorgarte

4 wadale gorgarte

5 silcis gorgarte
s1abx 7/20/2023 4:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

That Rendille you see is different from the ones in Kenya

Also Silcis is Curud and they don’t have daame in their abtirsi.

Gorgarte is split into 5

1 maxamed gorgarte

2 maxamud gorgarte

3 dame gorgarte

4 wadale gorgarte

5 silcis gorgarte

I know. Maxamud and Dame are the same person not Silcis and Dame. It’s like Madarkicis and Habargidir, just a nickname. You will see people ending their abtiris with Maxamud or Dame but they are the exact same person. What I’ve always heard is Maxamud/Dame, Wadalaan, Silcis, Mariixan who are non existent and the addition of Maxamed recently.
s1abx 7/20/2023 10:21:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I didn’t create the tree. It’s on google. Just type Gorgaarte clan tree. I searched it up on behalf of SDPP who wanted to know how they all relate to Gorgaarte. I was curious my self seeing madhibaan Gorgaarte on the E-Y18637 tree.

Silcis are 100% Gorgaarte. You would have known if you was from boondheere as they make up a sizeable population there. Wadalaan is 100% Gurgaarte. The rest are all Gorgaarte according to the video where the elder is getting interviewed. His family is tumaal, madhibaan and Yibir. I took his word because he hails from those groups. I however don’t agree with him because Hiiraab doesn’t match them genetically.

Listen to the video again and tell me where he went wrong.

Do you have another clan tree?

I believe he created that fake lineage to include Tumaal and Yibir since I have never even heard of them being Hawiye and DNA shows they are closer to Darood and respective groups anyway. You are right though, Silcis and Wadalaan are 100% Gorgarte albeit them being small clans who live in the Afgooye area.
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 10:33:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I believe he created that fake lineage to include Tumaal and Yibir since I have never even heard of them being Hawiye and DNA shows they are closer to Darood and respective groups anyway. You are right though, Silcis and Wadalaan are 100% Gorgarte albeit them being small clans who live in the Afgooye area.

I have deleted it.
Bulletproofpride 7/20/2023 11:07:00 PM

Yfull got an update guys!

TMRCA of E-BY8081 went up to 1200. Foolculus still not finished sequencing.

Once again age estimate is based off E-Y18632. I will have to wait till next update to get a clearer picture of the entire E-BY8081 branch. By then we have the Daanweyne and Foolculus on the tree so the estimates won’t be just solely based off E-Y18632
Mcmoud72 7/21/2023 12:30:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

That tree is incorrect as Maxamud Gorgarte and Daame are the same person. It’s just a guy and his nickname, it is where Hiraab descends from. It also lists my sub of Abgaal and Sacad as being Wadalaan, I have heard this before but only from one person. Rendille are also listed. I wonder where Mariixan Gorgarte went though.

I have grown up with many Silcis aka "Sedex geedi" families in Bondhere. One of the well known figures is Sheekh Cismaan Xaaji Yuusuf "Usuuli" and his brother Abdikarim Xaaji yusuf and Eng Aweys Haji Yusuf.
s1abx 7/21/2023 12:46:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

I have grown up with many Silcis aka "Sedex geedi" families in Bondhere. One of the well known figures is Sheekh Cismaan Xaaji Yuusuf "Usuuli" and his brother Abdikarim Xaaji yusuf and Eng Aweys Haji Yusuf.

His mother is Baadicade though right?
SDPP 7/21/2023 2:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yfull got an update guys!

TMRCA of E-BY8081 went up to 1200. Foolculus still not finished sequencing.

Once again age estimate is based off E-Y18632. I will have to wait till next update to get a clearer picture of the entire E-BY8081 branch. By then we have the Daanweyne and Foolculus on the tree so the estimates won’t be just solely based off E-Y18632

Do you think it may go even higher? I know there is no way in telling now but I would assume with the fulculus and Daanweyne it should.
Bulletproofpride 7/21/2023 4:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Do you think it may go even higher? I know there is no way in telling now but I would assume with the fulculus and Daanweyne it should.

Not only will it go higher but it will change the shape of the tree completely. The TMRCA we keep seeing is based of the MJ branch E-Y18632. It completely ignored my sample and that’s because I was an odd lonely basal guy against several MJ samples. Now that the foolculus joined we will get 3 different TMRCA’s. One for all the Majerteen clans including the tumaal brother and the Daanweyne which I believe will be capped at 950-1150. The second will be the Murusade TMRCA which will be around 1150-1350. The final TMRCA will be between both these two groups which can be as high as 1800 to be honest.

Now the Murusade TMRCA still has enough room to get larger and larger once other Karanle join. The father of Sabdi and Foolculus is warwaaq and he is 6 generations younger than Murusade and 8 generations younger than Karanle and 9 generations younger than Hawiye. So that’s an additional 350-450 years of extra TMRCA to be added giving a max of 1600 just like Dir T-L208 TMRCA. This is important because both Dir and Hawiye were contemporaries. Their TMRCA should match.

This TMRCA figures are larger than other clans and that’s because with the introduction of Islam came the abtirsi culture. And the Muslims around Zeila, Djibouti and Hararghe in general were the earliest groups to embrace Islam with some of the oldest Islamic sultanates being from this part of the horn. The story of Dir’s father Aji and Hawiye being brothers was invented in this region.
Mcmoud72 7/21/2023 6:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

His mother is Baadicade though right?

Yes brother.
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 5:43:00 AM

It looks like E-Y18629 officially has 6 branches because non of the 3 basal guys formed a subclade together. @Malawax and @Dano it looks like you guys will have to wait for some time to get a sub clade unfortunately.
Jamson22 7/22/2023 7:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It looks like E-Y18629 officially has 6 branches because non of the 3 basal guys formed a subclade together. @Malawax and @Dano it looks like you guys will have to wait for some time to get a sub clade unfortunately.

Yfull didn't use any of the samples that were added in June onward to form the branches, you'll have to wait until the next update for it
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 7:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

Yfull didn't use any of the samples that were added in June onward to form the branches, you'll have to wait until the next update for it

You sure, but weren’t all 3 samples not finished with the sequencing before the update started?
Jamson22 7/22/2023 7:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You sure, but weren’t all 3 samples not finished with the sequencing before the update started?

I emailed them, that's what they told me. You can also double check by clicking on the info tab -> TMRCA and then scrolling down. The only basal sample used in the calculation was YF111028. Later part of June was their cutoff.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 8:15:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

I emailed them, that's what they told me. You can also double check by clicking on the info section and scrolling down, only basal sample listed is YF111028

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y18629/

Are you the Hiiraan sample?
Jamson22 7/22/2023 8:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Are you the Hiiraan sample?

No, YF111028 is the single basal E-18629* sample that made the cutoff. I'm one of the late June to July downstream samples that missed the window.
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 8:21:00 AM

@Jamson

Do you think these new samples that are still sequencing make it on time to be included in next months update?
Jamson22 7/22/2023 8:24:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@Jamson

Do you think these new samples that are still sequencing make it on time to be included in next months update?

They're done analysis but they missed this cycle's calculation window, yfull told me they should be calculated for the next. Check your PM
Malawax 7/22/2023 9:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It looks like E-Y18629 officially has 6 branches because non of the 3 basal guys formed a subclade together. @Malawax and @Dano it looks like you guys will have to wait for some time to get a sub clade unfortunately.

I will have to wait until another Abgaal joins YFull, I am preparing myself for a long wait. @Jamson22 this is what my batch status showing.

Batch status

The sample is used for age calculated in the current YTree update...
Jamson22 7/22/2023 12:41:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I will have to wait until another Abgaal joins YFull, I am preparing myself for a long wait. @Jamson22 this is what my batch status showing.

Batch status

The sample is used for age calculated in the current YTree update...

I got the same thing when I go to my orders. But I confirmed via email it wasn't actually used for this cycle.

What do you get when go to the age estimation page? I still get this "Age estimation in progress. This may take some time. YTree revision..."
Dano 7/22/2023 10:28:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

I got the same thing when I go to my orders. But I confirmed via email it wasn't actually used for this cycle.

What do you get when go to the age estimation page? I still get this "Age estimation in progress. This may take some time. YTree revision..."

@Jamson22, mine also says the same thing. “Age estimation in progress. This may take some time.”
Malawax 7/22/2023 11:11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jamson22

I got the same thing when I go to my orders. But I confirmed via email it wasn't actually used for this cycle.

What do you get when go to the age estimation page? I still get this "Age estimation in progress. This may take some time. YTree revision..."

Same as you. "Age estimation in progress ..."
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 11:13:00 PM

So next update we should see update for the other two basal E-Y18629* samples?

What about E-BY8081*. Will he make it on time for next months update?
Bulletproofpride 7/22/2023 11:17:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I will have to wait until another Abgaal joins YFull, I am preparing myself for a long wait. @Jamson22 this is what my batch status showing.

Batch status

The sample is used for age calculated in the current YTree update...

Test another waceysla from a different subclan. Other Abgaals won’t get your lineage I believe. A Duduble, Ceyr and Harti all got the same lineage. Your lineage will be confined within waceysla subs or all of the waceysla. Try and test them to see how widespread this lineage is.
Dano 7/22/2023 11:18:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

When is the next update? Anyone knows?

@Bulletproofpride, my STR manual verification is still in progress. I think we have to wait a little more.
Garaacad 7/23/2023 1:19:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Test another waceysla from a different subclan. Other Abgaals won’t get your lineage I believe. A Duduble, Ceyr and Harti all got the same lineage. Your lineage will be confined within waceysla subs or all of the waceysla. Try and test them to see how widespread this lineage is.

Like you, we need to test someone from his 8th or 9th awoowe, and if they are not E-FT77328, we can assume most of Waceysle are not as well.

Mismatching is possible at lower levels of abtiris; sections of MZ have failed to match Cawlyahan.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 1:45:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Like you, we need to test someone from his 8th or 9th awoowe, and if they are not E-FT77328, we can assume most of Waceysle are not as well.

Mismatching is possible at lower levels of abtiris; sections of MZ have failed to match Cawlyahan.

Yes you are right. I was paranoid I was not really a Murusade untill I tested a foolculus who is at least 25+ generations away from me. Since further away hiiraab members like Saeed got E-FT77328 Malawax has no option but to test far away waceysla subs 1st to see the scope of his lineage. Once the furthest away waceysla comes back matching him he should start testing other Abgaal subs.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 2:06:00 AM

All the new samples have finished sequencing. @Garaacad you was right. The Foolculus and Sabti connection looks to be very old.

What will happen on the next update you think?
s1abx 7/23/2023 2:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yes you are right. I was paranoid I was not really a Murusade untill I tested a foolculus who is at least 25+ generations away from me. Since further away hiiraab members like Saeed got E-FT77328 Malawax has no option but to test far away waceysla subs 1st to see the scope of his lineage. Once the furthest away waceysla comes back matching him he should start testing other Abgaal subs.

I know one Waceysle who was interested. He is on 23andme and he is also @Malawax’s 2nd cousin. He would probably be open to taking it, he is Macalin Dhiblawe with E-V32. The question is, is @Malawax also Macalin Dhiblawe which would then make it pointless to take it.
Garaacad 7/23/2023 2:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Makes sense but who is the other guy, how do we know if he is Harti Abgaal or not. We know he is not Gabooye.

The sample belongs to a former user of Somalispot, whose clan is Harti Abgaal, PM farjanomar, for more details.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 2:25:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I know one Waceysle who was interested. He is on 23andme and he is also @Malawax’s 2nd cousin. He would probably be open to taking it, he is Macalin Dhiblawe with E-V32. The question is, is @Malawax also Macalin Dhiblawe which would then make it pointless to take it.

We should encourage the 23&me guy to take the to test because Malawax could be an outlier within dhiblaawe if he was one himself!
s1abx 7/23/2023 2:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

We should encourage the 23&me guy to take the to test because Malawax could be an outlier within dhiblaawe if he was one himself!

He was open to taking it the last time I interacted with him. I forgot the password to that account unfortunately but I know he is Malawax’s second cousin on 23andme.
Garaacad 7/23/2023 4:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

All the new samples have finished sequencing. @Garaacad you was right. The Foolculus and Sabti connection looks to be very old.

What will happen on the next update you think?

I think we need more people on E-Y325713, a second Foorculus to create a Foorculus-specific branch, and Daanweyne on YFull to understand how we diverged from our common ancestor.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 4:12:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Sloane Ranger is Agoonyar though not Warsangeli. 450 TMRCA is quite recent but not bad considering the average abtiris to Abgaal is 16-18 and they would meet up at Harti so that is 16-17 ancestor x 25 which is 425.

Libaax joore and his father got TMRCA of 50. So they use at least more than 25 years when multiplying kkk

I was given 350 years with a guy I share 7-8 abtirsi. So it’s fair to say they use 50 years from my understanding but I could be wrong again. Those two supposedly Abgaal guys are therefore 450 divided by 50 = 9-10 generations away from each other. He therefore must be an abgaal unless abgaal as a clan has on average less than 10 abtirsi kkkk
s1abx 7/23/2023 4:23:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Libaax joore and his father got TMRCA of 50. So they use at least more than 25 years when multiplying kkk

I was given 350 years with a guy I share 7-8 abtirsi. So it’s fair to say they use 50 years from my understanding but I could be wrong again. Those two supposedly Abgaal guys are therefore 450 divided by 50 = 9-10 generations away from each other. He therefore must be an abgaal unless abgaal as a clan has on average less than 10 abtirsi kkkk

That’s interesting. I don’t know about Harti Abgaal but the majority of Wacbudhan excluding my sub have an average abtiris of 19-20 to Abgaal, same with Waceysle. That would be a good 500 years which is not that off if you take away 50 since they link at Harti not Abgaal.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 4:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

That’s interesting. I don’t know about Harti Abgaal but the majority of Wacbudhan excluding my sub have an average abtiris of 19-20 to Abgaal, same with Waceysle. That would be a good 500 years which is not that off if you take away 50 since they link at Harti not Abgaal.

I think they use special formula because if they only used 50 then we would have perfect round numbers for everyone kkkk. I believe they stop using 50 after few generations and use a smaller number maybe? Who knows. One thing is guaranteed which is mudulood would be 900 because his father Hiiraab is at 950 as evident from the time Madarkacis joins up kkkk
Garaacad 7/23/2023 4:41:00 AM

This topic is kinda old, so I'm unsure if anyone has already commented on this, but the Tumaal beneath E-Y18632 is L0a1d1.

https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L0a1d/
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 4:49:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

I think we need more people on E-Y325713, a second Foorculus to create a Foorculus-specific branch, and Daanweyne on YFull to understand how we diverged from our common ancestor.

It will take time for another Murusade to join unfortunately. Hawiye are not really into the testing as much compared to other groups. Also, my next person on the list to test will be a Karanle that’s not Murusade. After that I’m going to test other Hawiye branches. From now on onwards Murusade samples will be done privately by unknown people themselves without my knowledg or assistance. One thing is guaranteed which is Daanweyne will explain a lot. Also the current TMRCA is based of E-Y18632 making things really complicated to guess. The E-Y325713 subclade is based of my cousin (Dhaaley) and is not really representative of Proto group that fathered the both of us. TMRCA could be as high as 2600 between both Murusade and MJ groups. Next update I expect TMRCA will be inclusive off all the samples and not just E-Y18632. The foolculus will join me while the Daanweyne will join the other MJ subclade. Both these two groups will be given their own independent TMRCA’s.

Time will tell!

I personally believe at the next update things will become much more defined.
Garaacad 7/23/2023 5:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

It will take time for another Murusade to join unfortunately. Hawiye are not really into the testing as much compared to other groups. Also, my next person on the list to test will be a Karanle that’s not Murusade. After that I’m going to test other Hawiye branches. From now on onwards Murusade samples will be done privately by unknown people themselves without my knowledg or assistance. One thing is guaranteed which is Daanweyne will explain a lot. Also the current TMRCA is based of E-Y18632 making things really complicated to guess. The E-Y325713 subclade is based of my cousin (Dhaaley) and is not really representative of Proto group that fathered the both of us. TMRCA could be as high as 2600 between both Murusade and MJ groups. Next update I expect TMRCA will be inclusive off all the samples and not just E-Y18632. The foolculus will join me while the Daanweyne will join the other MJ subclade. Both these two groups will be given their own independent TMRCA’s.

Time will tell!

I personally believe at the next update things will become much more defined.

Thanks for the detailed response. Are you talking about your Gidir Karanle friend or someone else?
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 5:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Garaacad

Thanks for the detailed response. Are you talking about your Gidir Karanle friend or someone else?

I don’t know yet. It will definitely not be the Gidir guy because he is paranoid of testing. I have asked SDPP to help test a Gidir Karanle or Sixawle Karanle since she has better connects than I. Her team had the means to find a Harla and Jiiraan who are much more difficult to find than Sixawle and Gidir. In the meantime I will do my own searches for a karanle to speed things up. One group I really would like to see tested is Reer Ibrahim who is the father of the great Imam Ahmed ibn Ibrahim. They live mostly in Funyan Bira, Babili, Harar and other nearby places. I instructed SDPP to target two of these members to avoid outliers. Basically two unrelated members from the same reer Ibrahim as well as one Gidir and 1 Xaskul Hawiye. If even one Karanle gets my E-BY8081 then that would be the de facto common denominator among us all. If the Xaskul gets E-BY8081 then that’s the common Hawiye denominator. Of course the Hawiye lineage could still be up for debate if a Hawiye sub group like Gugundhabe gets the Hiiraab E-BY192465.
Mcmoud72 7/23/2023 6:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I know one Waceysle who was interested. He is on 23andme and he is also @Malawax’s 2nd cousin. He would probably be open to taking it, he is Macalin Dhiblawe with E-V32. The question is, is @Malawax also Macalin Dhiblawe which would then make it pointless to take it.

On 23andme I do have several Maxamed cadde Macallin who are related to me as 3rd cousins, one of them is going to do yfull soon Insha Allah.
s1abx 7/23/2023 6:26:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

On 23andme I do have several Maxamed cadde Macallin who are related to me as 3rd cousins, one of them is going to do yfull soon Insha Allah.

Any chance one Elmi guy was part of them? He was the guy who was open to doing it. I have a distant Macalin Dhiblawe ancestor too, she was Abdi Macalin though. Same thing.
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 6:29:00 AM

@S1bax @malawax What waceysla subclan is the president?
s1abx 7/23/2023 7:04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@S1bax @malawax What waceysla subclan is the president?

He is Cali Gaaf from Masagawaay.
StrandedFisherman 7/23/2023 6:42:00 PM

Are there any Macalin Dhiblaawe that got other than EV32 haplogroup?
StrandedFisherman 7/23/2023 6:49:00 PM

What clan is the E-BY192465 from Bay
Bulletproofpride 7/23/2023 6:51:00 PM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

What clan is the E-BY192465 from Bay

No one knows.
s1abx 7/23/2023 7:24:00 PM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

Are there any Macalin Dhiblaawe that got other than EV32 haplogroup?

Never seen one. A user shared a list of his relatives on 23andme and their clans and majority were Macalin Dhiblawe and they all had E-V32.
Mcmoud72 7/23/2023 9:00:00 PM

Yes, i think we are talking with same the guy Abdifitah A. Elmi is my 3rd cousin, there are two new Mahamed Cadde on 23andme are much closer to me than Elmi if you need their names i can pm you: Have you seen any Aybakar Gaab macallin on 23andme?
Mcmoud72 7/23/2023 9:03:00 PM

Originally Posted by StrandedFisherman

Are there any Macalin Dhiblaawe that got other than EV32 haplogroup?

All Mahamed Cadde Macallin that i have seen so far are E-V32
s1abx 7/23/2023 9:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Yes, i think we are talking with same the guy Abdifitah A. Elmi is my 3rd cousin, there are two new Mahamed Cadde on 23andme are much closer to me than Elmi if you need their names i can pm you: Have you seen any Aybakar Gaab macallin on 23andme?

Yep. Do you have a Macalin Dhiblawe ancestor since that is very close.
Mcmoud72 7/24/2023 5:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Yep. Do you have a Macalin Dhiblawe ancestor since that is very close.

Brother, both of my parents are Loobage "Mahadalle Loobage" then my two ayeeyo are respectively Xawaadle(Aabo) and Majeerteen(Hooyo), there is no immediate Macallin dhiblaawe ancestor in our family as far as i remember.
drobbah 7/24/2023 5:42:00 AM

The TMRCA of the various branches of E-FT18121 according to FTDNA:

1. E-Y18637 800 BCE.

2.E-BY155996 450 BCE

3. E-BY202497 200 BCE
Saeed 7/24/2023 7:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The TMRCA of the various branches of E-FT18121 according to FTDNA:

1. E-Y18637 800 BCE.

2.E-BY155996 450 BCE

3. E-BY202497 200 BCE

Why are some of the subclade names different do you know? How do they come up with them
s1abx 7/24/2023 5:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Brother, both of my parents are Loobage "Mahadalle Loobage" then my two ayeeyo are respectively Xawaadle(Aabo) and Majeerteen(Hooyo), there is no immediate Macallin dhiblaawe ancestor in our family as far as i remember.

Mahadalle is Tolweyne Loobage right? Good folk, a few of them came to my village and were Macalin dugsi, to this day some of them still live with us and have intermarried and live there. That Sheikhaal singer Dayax Dalnuurshe is also Tolweyne.
Mcmoud72 7/25/2023 2:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Mahadalle is Tolweyne Loobage right? Good folk, a few of them came to my village and were Macalin dugsi, to this day some of them still live with us and have intermarried and live there. That Sheikhaal singer Dayax Dalnuurshe is also Tolweyne.

Maasha Allah, that's nice of you to say, thanks my brother, you are right Mahadalle is also known as Tolweyne since they are "Curadka" Loobage; Dayax Dalnuurshe and i belong to the same sub subclan "Faqanuur Xasan Mahadale": Where is the village located ? i know some of my father's relatives live in Shabelle dhexe .
s1abx 7/25/2023 3:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

Maasha Allah, that's nice of you to say, thanks my brother, you are right Mahadalle is also known as Tolweyne since they are "Curadka" Loobage; Dayax Dalnuurshe and i belong to the same sub subclan "Faqanuur Xasan Mahadale": Where is the village located ? i know some of my father's relatives live in Shabelle dhexe .

Aqabduco, near Jowhar

https://mapcarta.com/N1404231575/Map
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 4:05:00 AM

New subclade born?

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT420077/
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 4:07:00 AM

Another new subclade born?

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FTC83339/
s1abx 7/26/2023 4:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

New subclade born?

https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-FT420077/

Seems like the two Reer Warfaa formed a sub-clade. No TMRCA yet. On the other E-FTC83339 the Bahgari and Gabooye are now under E-FTC83339* while a new sub-clade was created with the other Bahgari and Cawlyahan in one branch, and the Makahil seperate.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 5:16:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Seems like the two Reer Warfaa formed a sub-clade. No TMRCA yet. On the other E-FTC83339 the 2 Bahgari are now under E-FTC83339* while a new sub-clade was created with the Gabooye and Cawlyahan in one branch, and the Makahil seperate.

Reer warfa and Malinguur formed a subclade according to sspot guys. These two clans are brothers. The other anonymous guy is alone.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 5:19:00 AM

Cawlayahaan and Bah Geri formed a subclade while Abaq who is Maqabuul is seperate. I just don’t know who is who and where the Gabooye is in all this.
s1abx 7/26/2023 5:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Reer warfa and Malinguur formed a subclade according to sspot guys. These two clans are brothers. The other anonymous guy is alone.

The new guy isn’t Reer Warfaa? That is interesting, from my interactions I always thought he was Reer Warfaa. I know Maalinguur though.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 5:27:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

The new guy isn’t Reer Warfaa? That is interesting, from my interactions I always thought he was Reer Warfaa. I know Maalinguur though.

They both reer xirsi. Maybe that’s the parent tribe of Reer warfa and Malinguur
farjanomar 7/26/2023 5:28:00 AM

Guys, my thank you function is not working. I can only write for now.
s1abx 7/26/2023 5:29:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Cawlayahaan and Bah Geri formed a subclade while Abaq who is Maqabuul is seperate. I just don’t know who is who and where the Gabooye is in all this.

My bad. The ones under * are the BahGari (665) and the Togdheer Gabooye (244). The Makahiil is alone on the * new branch while the other two who formed a new sub-clade are the Cawlyahan and Bahgari. That’s expected and all since they are closer together as they are under Baahale while they meet with Makahil 7 generations later. Seems the other Bahgari is not really Bahgari though.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 5:31:00 AM

Foolculus is still basal and he was on Yfull before reer ugaas Hussein!
farjanomar 7/26/2023 5:32:00 AM

Thanks for the update guys, my reply also not working.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 5:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

Thanks for the update guys, my reply also not working.

Your welcome
s1abx 7/26/2023 5:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

They both reer xirsi. Maybe that’s the parent tribe of Reer warfa and Malinguur

It is. The average abtiris to Ugaas Xirsi is 11 so we should see a low TMRCA. Relatively young clan yet probably the most populous out of all Ogaden.
SDPP 7/26/2023 9:31:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

My bad. The ones under * are the BahGari (665) and the Togdheer Gabooye (244). The Makahiil is alone on the * new branch while the other two who formed a new sub-clade are the Cawlyahan and Bahgari. That’s expected and all since they are closer together as they are under Baahale while they meet with Makahil 7 generations later. Seems the other Bahgari is not really Bahgari though.

It seems the other have asterisks next to them and E-FTC77937 clade doesn’t. Wonder if these spots are holding spots until the next update or until a closer person test? Interesting.

[Bad Link]
SDPP 7/26/2023 11:32:00 AM

Salam everyone. Looks like anthrogenica may be closing down? Am I understanding this correctly?

[Bad Link]
Wiilcfs 7/26/2023 12:01:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Salam everyone. Looks like anthrogenica may be closing down? Am I understanding this correctly?

[Bad Link]

Very sad indeed. I learned a lot from the discussions on the last closed thread alone. Somalis who are new to dna now will need to find a new place and ssp is more like fdk I wouldn’t want bright little young boys and girls to get into that mess. So let’s come up with a way to save all of those discussions on the other thread and this thread because they can completely shutdown and lose everything after awhile.
Wiilcfs 7/26/2023 12:03:00 PM

They’re going through legal issues and am guessing the site is based in europe which si know for it’s tough rules on internet related stuff. They’re basically saying we are not gonna restart and we are not gonna endorse or select a new replacement for legal reasons.
SDPP 7/26/2023 1:59:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

Very sad indeed. I learned a lot from the discussions on the last closed thread alone. Somalis who are new to dna now will need to find a new place and ssp is more like fdk I wouldn’t want bright little young boys and girls to get into that mess. So let’s come up with a way to save all of those discussions on the other thread and this thread because they can completely shutdown and lose everything after awhile.

Yes agree, pretty disappointing as this was a great site for learning and collaboration. So much useful information that may go to waste. I hope we can figure out another place we can carry on from. Ssp is totally not the place to share genuine information because if it doesn’t suit some of the crews agenda it won’t be allowed. With anthrogenica there was fair moderation.

We could use FTDNA projects to share info but it would mean everyone would probably need to sign up for an account. Open to any ideas. Reddit? Discord? Somaliwave?
s1abx 7/26/2023 5:49:00 PM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

They’re going through legal issues and am guessing the site is based in europe which si know for it’s tough rules on internet related stuff. They’re basically saying we are not gonna restart and we are not gonna endorse or select a new replacement for legal reasons.

They won’t directly but other people probably will.
Bulletproofpride 7/26/2023 10:00:00 PM

Originally Posted by s1abx

They won’t directly but other people probably will.

Hopefully someone makes a new genetic forum real quick �� . It’s depressing to hear this bad news.
Wiilcfs 7/26/2023 10:13:00 PM

Will anybody care to save the content on the previous thread and this one? @malawax you’re tech savvy brother would you mind? They posted this on the announcement on how to.

“9. DATA EXTRACTION

9.1. Exporting of all public posts and threads will not occur for technical and legal reasons that lie beyond the scope of this announcement.

9.2. No users will be granted any access to the site's database for any SQL extraction procedures for obvious reasons outlined previously (section 5.).

9.3. However, we welcome those users with the technical abilities to use third-party tools to scrape the public site for relevant content.

9.4. Specific extraction guides for users that are unable to use web scrapers is provided below:

- Your user posts: Click your username, select 'View Forum Posts', navigate through the search results, right-click the bold text that summarises your target posts, click 'open link in new tab', repeat as desired

- Your PMs: Visit your User Control Panel, select either Inbox or Sent Items, locate "Folder Controls" at the top of the page, export the PMs in the desired format.

- Your attachments: Visit your User Control Panel, go to Miscellaneous, select Attachments, download as desired.

- Forum threads: Two methods:

1. Visit the "Archive" version of Anthrogenica ([Bad Link]), navigate to your desired threads, right-click, select "Save As" (note that you will need to duplicate this across multiple continuity pages - This view is visuals-depreciated but covers more content).

2. Right-click on any page, select "Save As" (note that you can view the page in a "Printable" format in "Thread Tools").”
farjanomar 7/26/2023 10:19:00 PM

So sad to hear that Anthrogenica is closing. No wonder many functions are not working for me, including thank you, and reply.
farjanomar 7/26/2023 10:25:00 PM

This message to all Brothers and Sisters.

We need a Somali Forum for only Genetics/DNA. Can some of the tech savvy brothers create one. We can fund the cost of hosting/servers.
Mcmoud72 7/27/2023 1:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

This message to all Brothers and Sisters.

We need a Somali Forum for only Genetics/DNA. Can some of the tech savvy brothers create one. We can fund the cost of hosting/servers.

I am ready to pay my share if we decide to create new forum
Sea 7/27/2023 1:47:00 AM

Hi, I can help with that! Not just a forum for only Dna, but for all related topics!

What are names you guys thinking of and how will this be funded, there is a way to do it and costs 60 dollar a month, the first month will need to be funded and the others month can be covered by ads!!
yourDNAportal 7/27/2023 2:10:00 AM

Willing to fund a forum

Hi, as the founder of yourDNAportal, I have always appreciated Anthrogenica, it inspired me in the early days when there were few resources available. I set up a forum a few years ago (yourDNAportalforum.com) but closed it down, as it was easier to manage a private Facebook group. I'm increasingly disillusioned with social media and would be happy to fund a forum, with some volunteers. If you are interested let me know at _ contact@yourDNAportal.com. I forgot to add, we have had to jump through many hoops to be GDPR compliant, so we are fully aware of all the issues (even though I am English we are still part of the GDPR EU data protection regulations). Get in touch if you are interested in preserving Anthrogenica, or also if you would like to contribute to yourDNAportal in any way. I also direct this message to the current Admins of Anthrogenica, if there is anything I can do to help, we have a lot of experience with data protection and I would be happy to help (for free in any way possible) please get in touch. Gemma
SDPP 7/27/2023 2:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sea

Hi, I can help with that! Not just a forum for only Dna, but for all related topics!

What are names you guys thinking of and how will this be funded, there is a way to do it and costs 60 dollar a month, the first month will need to be funded and the others month can be covered by ads!!

That would be great if we could do that. There are 2 people on this forum so far that are willing to help. Counting me it will be 3, any more volunteers?

Are there any other options? $60 might not sound like much but if people dip out of paying it should be something sustainable for 1 or 2 people.
Bulletproofpride 7/27/2023 2:18:00 AM

Im willing to help too with the finance
Malawax 7/27/2023 4:39:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wiilcfs

Will anybody care to save the content on the previous thread and this one? @malawax you’re tech savvy brother would you mind? They posted this on the announcement on how to.

“9. DATA EXTRACTION

9.1. Exporting of all public posts and threads will not occur for technical and legal reasons that lie beyond the scope of this announcement.

9.2. No users will be granted any access to the site's database for any SQL extraction procedures for obvious reasons outlined previously (section 5.).

9.3. However, we welcome those users with the technical abilities to use third-party tools to scrape the public site for relevant content.

9.4. Specific extraction guides for users that are unable to use web scrapers is provided below:

- Your user posts: Click your username, select 'View Forum Posts', navigate through the search results, right-click the bold text that summarises your target posts, click 'open link in new tab', repeat as desired

- Your PMs: Visit your User Control Panel, select either Inbox or Sent Items, locate "Folder Controls" at the top of the page, export the PMs in the desired format.

- Your attachments: Visit your User Control Panel, go to Miscellaneous, select Attachments, download as desired.

- Forum threads: Two methods:

1. Visit the "Archive" version of Anthrogenica ([Bad Link]), navigate to your desired threads, right-click, select "Save As" (note that you will need to duplicate this across multiple continuity pages - This view is visuals-depreciated but covers more content).

2. Right-click on any page, select "Save As" (note that you can view the page in a "Printable" format in "Thread Tools").”

I will see what I can do to extract that data.
Mcmoud72 7/27/2023 5:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

That would be great if we could do that. There are 2 people on this forum so far that are willing to help. Counting me it will be 3, any more volunteers?

Are there any other options? $60 might not sound like much but if people dip out of paying it should be something sustainable for 1 or 2 people.

Hi dear sister! you can count on me Insha Allah
farjanomar 7/27/2023 6:13:00 AM

Can someone make a list of contributors Plz.
Omaar 7/27/2023 8:16:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

The TMRCA of the various branches of E-FT18121 according to FTDNA:

1. E-Y18637 800 BCE.

2.E-BY155996 450 BCE

3. E-BY202497 200 BCE

E-BY192465 ~450 BCE.
farjanomar 7/28/2023 10:22:00 PM

ASC Brothers and Sisters.

Why we need a dedicated Somali Genetics/Anthropology website.

For along time the biggest obstacle to big y testing was the price, but now that the prices have come down with many Companies competing, now is the right time for long term active recruitment campaign. Now, we barely have few recruits here and there, but,with the dedicated website, all the People who did 23andme will be able to join easily with their Autosomal results. We will make a thread for 23andme members results. The problem with existing Somali forums is that they are full forums meaning they are not exclusive to Genetics/anthropology. Ftdna is good but there are restrictions to joining. There are thousands of 23andme Somali members and growing everyday, since they are already tested

for Autosomal and are a little familiar with DNA testing its easier to convince them to do advanced big y tests. ( I know a lot of them are female, but they can still test their male family members, like some sisters already do) Finally this dedicated site will be the go to one-stop shop for us and the next generation for Somali Genetics/anthropology.
farjanomar 7/28/2023 11:25:00 PM

It looks like, we will not be able to finish the preparation for the project here, since we want have a Somali consensus (Organising the Admin and all that) The site is closing and some of the functions are not working. But let's keep each other's contacts specially Somali DNA Peace Project Email.

Sister, can you post the SDPP email?
s1abx 7/28/2023 11:27:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sea

Hi, I can help with that! Not just a forum for only Dna, but for all related topics!

What are names you guys thinking of and how will this be funded, there is a way to do it and costs 60 dollar a month, the first month will need to be funded and the others month can be covered by ads!!

Xenforo right? Very good site, it’s what Somalispot and Somaliwave use. You’d have to lease a website name from sites like Google for $10 a year and also have a good management system. Anyone can create a free demo and see the features of it.

https://xenforo.com/demo/
SDPP 7/29/2023 4:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by farjanomar

It looks like, we will not be able to finish the preparation for the project here, since we want have a Somali consensus (Organising the Admin and all that) The site is closing and some of the functions are not working. But let's keep each other's contacts specially Somali DNA Peace Project Email.

Sister, can you post the SDPP email?

Yes our contact email is Somalidnapeaceproject@gmail.com or you can find us at https://m.facebook.com/groups/517471702723967/

I’m on Somaliwave as bluskee. It would be great to see you all on there incase this shuts down. I know bulletproofpride is on there and so is sea. Let us know if some of you are on there and under what name. https://www.somaliwave.com/index.php

I’ll try to create a anthrogenica thread there. Insha Allah we will try to get the forum going in the meantime and keep you all updated.
s1abx 7/29/2023 5:21:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yes our contact email is Somalidnapeaceproject@gmail.com or you can find us at https://m.facebook.com/groups/517471702723967/

I’m on Somaliwave as bluskee. It would be great to see you all on there incase this shuts down. I know bulletproofpride is on there and so is sea. Let us know if some of you are on there and under what name. https://www.somaliwave.com/index.php

I’ll try to create a anthrogenica thread there. Insha Allah we will try to get the forum going in the meantime and keep you all updated.

I’ll be lurking, unfortunately I’ve been banned permanently. Insha Allah make sure it is viewable to guests in one of the sub forums that are open to guests.
drobbah 7/29/2023 7:11:00 AM

There's a Birmaal (Gabooye??) that's likely to be E-BY155996+ based on his strs
Bulletproofpride 7/29/2023 8:14:00 AM

Originally Posted by drobbah

There's a Birmaal (Gabooye??) that's likely to be E-BY155996+ based on his strs

Yeh SDPP told me about this 3 days ago. He will land on the Isaaq branch if Big Y is done.

This is her and I quote

“On one of the 37 marker test of an Eidle Guled Birmaal/Tumaal came back as matching to the Ev32 isaacs. The baxar Guled is on yfull with the T Samarons. Interesting how two brothers who had Gudabirsi origin stories matched with two groups of Gudabirsi/isaac”.

SDPP can elaborate on it a bit more.
SDPP 7/29/2023 9:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Yeh SDPP told me about this 3 days ago. He will land on the Isaaq branch if Big Y is done.

This is her and I quote

“On one of the 37 marker test of an Eidle Guled Birmaal/Tumaal came back as matching to the Ev32 isaacs. The baxar Guled is on yfull with the T Samarons. Interesting how two brothers who had Gudabirsi origin stories matched with two groups of Gudabirsi/isaac”.

SDPP can elaborate on it a bit more.

@drobbah @bulletproofpride, yes, outside the Harla and Jiraan we also took 3-37 marker testings in hargeisa, all Birmaal. Cade Cade Omar, Eidle Guled, and Bah Hayaag. The Eidles results came back as matches to some of the E-V32 Isaac. The two, Baxar and Eidle Guled, have a story of being half brothers, sharing a mother, but being raised as the stepfathers child and taking on his surname. Not sure which one took on his step fathers name, I’ll have to verify. Pretty interesting that they split as the story goes, but in between the two Isaac/Samaron groups makes it even more intriguing. With an upgrade we’d know more accurately where he’d go. We are also trying to test another unrelated eidle for verification.
Malawax 7/29/2023 11:54:00 AM

Hello people, I extracted the data from both discussions up to yesterday and parked it here http://www.somaliy.com

It is slow, not pretty, some of the links will not work, I was not able to keep any of the styles (no visual differentiation between post, quote, spoiler, etc.), and no images are included. I extracted just post, username, and datetime.

It will stay where it is until I find a more permanent host. Let me know if you are interested in the raw data.
Bulletproofpride 7/29/2023 5:51:00 PM

Marexaan Reer Garaad came back as J1 on 23&me.

SDPP your team needs to prioritise Hararghe region. All the Somalis from that region are ending up with non-EV32 kkkk
drobbah 7/29/2023 6:30:00 PM

Originally Posted by SDPP

@drobbah @bulletproofpride, yes, outside the Harla and Jiraan we also took 3-37 marker testings in hargeisa, all Birmaal. Cade Cade Omar, Eidle Guled, and Bah Hayaag. The Eidles results came back as matches to some of the E-V32 Isaac. The two, Baxar and Eidle Guled, have a story of being half brothers, sharing a mother, but being raised as the stepfathers child and taking on his surname. Not sure which one took on his step fathers name, I’ll have to verify. Pretty interesting that they split as the story goes, but in between the two Isaac/Samaron groups makes it even more intriguing. With an upgrade we’d know more accurately where he’d go. We are also trying to test another unrelated eidle for verification.

E-BY155996 has two branches:

1. Is a young exclusively Habar Awal clade with tmrca of 750 ybp

2. Is an older clade shared between an Ashraaf from Marka & a sample from Toghdheer. Tmrca of 1200 ybp

The Gabooye sample would have test to see where he falls on the tree

Btw It is spelled Isaaq not Isaac
SDPP 7/29/2023 9:42:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

E-BY155996 has two branches:

1. Is a young exclusively Habar Awal clade with tmrca of 750 ybp

2. Is an older clade shared between an Ashraaf from Marka & a sample from Toghdheer. Tmrca of 1200 ybp

The Gabooye sample would have test to see where he falls on the tree

Btw It is spelled Isaaq not Isaac

Thanks for the information, I assumed everyone was Isaaq. Insha Allah when we are able we will try to upgrade the Eidle Guleds sample.

Interesting to learn Ashraaf is on there. Did the person from Toghdheer share his background?
SDPP 7/29/2023 10:09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Marexaan Reer Garaad came back as J1 on 23&me.

SDPP your team needs to prioritise Hararghe region. All the Somalis from that region are ending up with non-EV32 kkkk

Interesting thanks for sharing lol. History is coming to life through DNA. What other haplogroups have been found there? I understand there were many different people who fought to rule the area from diverse countries including Egypt etc.

There are so many people we need and love to test from all over. We need to write to some rich folks haha. Maybe register as a NGO so we can apply for grants etc to help us.

Would love to learn more of the Marexaan J1. Seems like these areas between Harar or Ethiopia and Northern Somalia is where they are found. Again he could be a different J1. Maybe he can test with yseq or whatever the name for now to see if he’s positive for matching sub clade. He can always start with FTDNA at 37 markers to get an idea or look into deeper test if he can.
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 12:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Interesting thanks for sharing lol. History is coming to life through DNA. What other haplogroups have been found there? I understand there were many different people who fought to rule the area from diverse countries including Egypt etc.

There are so many people we need and love to test from all over. We need to write to some rich folks haha. Maybe register as a NGO so we can apply for grants etc to help us.

Would love to learn more of the Marexaan J1. Seems like these areas between Harar or Ethiopia and Northern Somalia is where they are found. Again he could be a different J1. Maybe he can test with yseq or whatever the name for now to see if he’s positive for matching sub clade. He can always start with FTDNA at 37 markers to get an idea or look into deeper test if he can.

He is reer Garaad of the Marexaan. I heard some live in Gedo. I don’t know where the other ones live but since he is Reer Garaad I assumed he was from Hararghe.

As far as I know I have seen Somalis from Haraghe with J1, E-V6, L, E-M81. There are probably more lineages in that region.
drobbah 7/30/2023 1:58:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Thanks for the information, I assumed everyone was Isaaq. Insha Allah when we are able we will try to upgrade the Eidle Guleds sample.

Interesting to learn Ashraaf is on there. Did the person from Toghdheer share his background?

No the person from Toghdheer didn't share their info.They could be Habar Jeclo,Habar Yoonis or Dhulbahante as these 3 clans make up the majority of that province
Mcmoud72 7/30/2023 2:09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Helo people, I extracted the data from both discussions up to yesterday and parked it here https://somaliy.com/

It is slow, not pretty, some of the links will not work, I was not able to keep any of the styles (no visual differentiation between post, quote, spoiler, etc.), and no images are included. I extracted just post, username, and datetime.

It will stay where it is until I find a more permanent host. Let me know if you are interested in the raw data.

Jazaka Allah brother, you have done tremendous job .
Mcmoud72 7/30/2023 2:37:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Marexaan Reer Garaad came back as J1 on 23&me.

SDPP your team needs to prioritise Hararghe region. All the Somalis from that region are ending up with non-EV32 kkkk

While Somalis were on the Jihad expeditions with Imam Ahmed Gurey there were Arabs who came as voluntarily to join his army, i think those Somalis with J1 are descendants of Arabs kkkkkkk
SDPP 7/30/2023 2:57:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mcmoud72

While Somalis were on the Jihad expeditions with Imam Ahmed Gurey there were Arabs who came as voluntarily to join his army, i think those Somalis with J1 are descendants of Arabs kkkkkkk

Yeah that may be plausible lol. Those who came for religious jihad and teachings may be our ancestors. There is so much we need to rule out and consider. I’m sure as time goes on we will learn more. Ahmed Gurey himself could have been a J1 by the way it’s going hahahaha. If Marexaan Garaad and Sixawle Karanale both say they are related to the Imam and they have shown that some have tested positive for J1 it’s also on the table. We won’t know until more of these sub sub clans test that say they are his clan. Or we may never know if it isn’t meant for us to know haha.
s1abx 7/30/2023 4:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He is reer Garaad of the Marexaan. I heard some live in Gedo. I don’t know where the other ones live but since he is Reer Garaad I assumed he was from Hararghe.

As far as I know I have seen Somalis from Haraghe with J1, E-V6, L, E-M81. There are probably more lineages in that region.

Is the E-V6 the Abgaal? Don’t forget the A haplogroup Gerikombe.
s1abx 7/30/2023 4:41:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

He is reer Garaad of the Marexaan. I heard some live in Gedo. I don’t know where the other ones live but since he is Reer Garaad I assumed he was from Hararghe.

As far as I know I have seen Somalis from Haraghe with J1, E-V6, L, E-M81. There are probably more lineages in that region.

Yep, majority of them live in Gedo. Some live in the region with their uncle Ina Nur (Garaad Yusuf Mataan and Nur Mataan) who is the alleged ancestor of Nur ibn Mujahid.
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 4:55:00 AM

Originally Posted by SDPP

Yeah that may be plausible lol. Those who came for religious jihad and teachings may be our ancestors. There is so much we need to rule out and consider. I’m sure as time goes on we will learn more. Ahmed Gurey himself could have been a J1 by the way it’s going hahahaha. If Marexaan Garaad and Sixawle Karanale both say they are related to the Imam and they have shown that some have tested positive for J1 it’s also on the table. We won’t know until more of these sub sub clans test that say they are his clan. Or we may never know if it isn’t meant for us to know haha.

Marexaan have absolutely nothing to do with the Imam or the region it self. 80% of the Somali tribes that live around Harar are Karanle and Oromo whom themselves are partially Somali. We are the plurality by a wide margin. The few other Somali clans that lived with us in the past have all vacated the land and went back to their ancestral lands. The only group worth testing is Sixawle Karanle. They could be J1, only time will tell. The thing is, the imam descended from a line of garaads that existed long before Adal and the subsequent arrival of these Arab, Amazigh and Ottoman soldiers that joined the fight therefore reducing the likelihood for the core lineage of the clan to be foreign sourced. Only few individuals would inherit these foreign lineages and assimilate into the wider population.
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 4:56:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Is the E-V6 the Abgaal? Don’t forget the A haplogroup Gerikombe.

The E-V6 was a Geri Koombe on 23&me.
s1abx 7/30/2023 5:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Marexaan have absolutely nothing to do with the Imam or the region it self. 80% of the Somali tribes that live around Harar are Karanle and Oromo whom themselves are partially Somali. We are the plurality by a wide margin. The few other Somali clans that lived with us in the past have all vacated the land and went back to their ancestral lands. The only group worth testing is Sixawle Karanle. They could be J1, only time will tell. The thing is, the imam descended from a line of garaads that existed long before Adal and the subsequent arrival of these Arab, Amazigh and Ottoman soldiers that joined the fight therefore reducing the likelihood for the core lineage of the clan to be foreign sourced. Only few individuals would inherit these foreign lineages and assimilate into the wider population.

Quite possible, could you send that Imam Ahmed Sexawle abtiris you had? Also, @Nur ibn Mujahid Mareexan guy on this site, how much do you count to Reer Diini?
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 5:07:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Yep, majority of them live in Gedo. Some live in the region with their uncle Ina Nur (Garaad Yusuf Mataan and Nur Mataan) who is the alleged ancestor of Nur ibn Mujahid.

Amir Nur would have led his clan to Harar when Hirabou escaped but he had nothing to do with them. There are no hararge traditions of Amir Nur being MX. There are MX Somali traditions which is as real as their spirits Yaxye and Moorif kkkk. Also, Amir Nur has a brother and father mentioned in the Futuh which MX traditions do not mention. They don't know his family kkkk.

Marexaan whole claim on Amir Nur is based on an idea that he succeeded Gragn as the 2nd ruler to stake a claim on Harar which couldn't be further from the truth. Gureys brothers and sons took over after him and then went off to Awssa!!!
s1abx 7/30/2023 5:20:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Amir Nur would have led his clan to Harar when Hirabou escaped but he had nothing to do with them. There are no hararge traditions of Amir Nur being MX. There are MX Somali traditions which is as real as their spirits Yaxye and Moorif kkkk. Also, Amir Nur has a brother and father mentioned in the Futuh which MX traditions do not mention. They don't know his family kkkk.

Marexaan whole claim on Amir Nur is based on an idea that he succeeded Gragn as the 2nd ruler to stake a claim on Harar which couldn't be further from the truth. Gureys brothers and sons took over after him and then went off to Awssa!!!

I’ve done an approximate time of when Ahmed Gurey (Mareexan abtiris) would be alive and it came out to 1743 if we use the average abtiris. Bear in mind I assumed they were all 20 years old so even if they were all 14 which I highly doubt wouldn’t make up te 235 year difference. But if I use that logic, Ina Nuur would be alive around 1623 so no way Nur ibn Mujahid could be Mareexan yet no other clan claims him. Damn abtiris is messed up, but I doubt it is fake since it isn’t too short but too long. Him being Sexawle is more feasible even backed up with abtiris.
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 6:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

I’ve done an approximate time of when Ahmed Gurey (Mareexan abtiris) would be alive and it came out to 1743 if we use the average abtiris. Bear in mind I assumed they were all 20 years old so even if they were all 14 which I highly doubt wouldn’t make up te 235 year difference. But if I use that logic, Ina Nuur would be alive around 1623 so no way Nur ibn Mujahid could be Mareexan yet no other clan claims him. Damn abtiris is messed up, but I doubt it is fake since it isn’t too short but too long. Him being Sexawle is more feasible even backed up with abtiris.

Imam Ahmed’s full abtirsi according to Karanle is as follows. Imam Ahmed (Gragn) - Garad Ibrahim - Garad Mohamed -Garad Omar - Garad Ahmed - Garad Mohamed-Garad Ali Gasasle (GASA) - Garad Mahiiqe - CIye- Baalow- Sahawle - Karanle/Kerenle - Hawiye - Erer

According to Harari sources and the Futuh. I have uploaded the image. Few things to bare in mind. The Karanle say gragns grandfather is mohamed bin omar while makuria say ahmed bin omar. Mohamed and ahmed are the same name in classical text. Same way they say mohamed gragne in old european text and ahmed gragn in local text. The Aussa ruler Mohamed Ibrahim's father called Gasa is probably named Gasasle too, royal families often copy and replicate their names over generations.

Mekuria says generations were skipped, so after mohamed al agrani they stated karanle, the repeated Garan and Karan is what Ahmed Shami found in the futuh and they extrapolated it to Karanle. So no mention of sixawle, ciye, baad etc like karanle abtirsi. They knew the extended cousins and nephews of gragn all linking back to 3 men descended from a Karanle prince in the lineage tree, the exact lineage wont be clear and linearly obvious so names were skipped but they knew these as karanle descendants. Garan and Karan are mentioned in the Futuh copies, till now i havent seen it, but the caption of the lineage tree states Karanle is found according to Shami and Futuh. I think the Futuh copy its mentioned in havent been translated with the context of Karanle, ppl are saying they didn't provide the transliteration correctly and confused it with his name Ahmed Gurey. But if its in Arabic the name Karanle will be in context of his people "Aal Garan" "Aal" means "people of". British Museum may have the arabic version. I’m heading there this week!

We have Karanle day every 31st Oct there is awareness of researching history, i saw a video of Haji Ingiriis the HG Saleban Professor saying he visited Harar Babile Mieso last summer on Youtube and read collections of Gragn. The problem with that guy he tethers on being politically correct so hes not come out to mention Karanle but to be fair his video was about his collective visit to East Africa, when he does a talk on Gurey he will probably discuss his clan, ive dmed him before so he knows i shared material with him.

Apparently they teach that he is Karanle in Xamar schools Kkkk. I saw a Darood MJ guy in the UK say that on twitter.

[Bad Link]
s1abx 7/30/2023 7:22:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Imam Ahmed’s full abtirsi according to Karanle is as follows. Imam Ahmed (Gragn) - Garad Ibrahim - Garad Mohamed -Garad Omar - Garad Ahmed - Garad Mohamed-Garad Ali Gasasle (GASA) - Garad Mahiiqe - CIye- Baalow- Sahawle - Karanle/Kerenle - Hawiye - Erer

According to Harari sources and the Futuh. I have uploaded the image. Few things to bare in mind. The Karanle say gragns grandfather is mohamed bin omar while makuria say ahmed bin omar. Mohamed and ahmed are the same name in classical text. Same way they say mohamed gragne in old european text and ahmed gragn in local text. The Aussa ruler Mohamed Ibrahim's father called Gasa is probably named Gasasle too, royal families often copy and replicate their names over generations.

Mekuria says generations were skipped, so after mohamed al agrani they stated karanle, the repeated Garan and Karan is what Ahmed Shami found in the futuh and they extrapolated it to Karanle. So no mention of sixawle, ciye, baad etc like karanle abtirsi. They knew the extended cousins and nephews of gragn all linking back to 3 men descended from a Karanle prince in the lineage tree, the exact lineage wont be clear and linearly obvious so names were skipped but they knew these as karanle descendants. Garan and Karan are mentioned in the Futuh copies, till now i havent seen it, but the caption of the lineage tree states Karanle is found according to Shami and Futuh. I think the Futuh copy its mentioned in havent been translated with the context of Karanle, ppl are saying they didn't provide the transliteration correctly and confused it with his name Ahmed Gurey. But if its in Arabic the name Karanle will be in context of his people "Aal Garan" "Aal" means "people of". British Museum may have the arabic version. I’m heading there this week!

We have Karanle day every 31st Oct there is awareness of researching history, i saw a video of Haji Ingiriis the HG Saleban Professor saying he visited Harar Babile Mieso last summer on Youtube and read collections of Gragn. The problem with that guy he tethers on being politically correct so hes not come out to mention Karanle but to be fair his video was about his collective visit to East Africa, when he does a talk on Gurey he will probably discuss his clan, ive dmed him before so he knows i shared material with him.

Apparently they teach that he is Karanle in Xamar schools Kkkk. I saw a Darood MJ guy in the UK say that on twitter.

[Bad Link]

Are Baad and Balaw the same person then? I know there is Ciye Baad as well as Shurbul Baad. Funny names tbh they all seem Oromised, but then again you can say that for any clan that was alive in the area at that time. This is my first time of hearing Karanle day lool. Who is majority in Baabile btw, is it Karanle or Jidle? I’ve heard some people say Xaskul too since you can find all three there. I wonder if you can find Raarane though.
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 7:30:00 AM

@S1bax

13 confirmed Karanle rulers on this list. They are rulers number 30, 34, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 42, 44, 47, 49, 52 and 53. Those are rulers of Harar partly under Adal at times and partly an independent emirate. Since 1471, Gragns awoowe and his relative Mahfuz were two lineages among Karanle who took power in Adal.

Nur ibn Mujahid comes twice on this list. The likelihood of him being from another clan is very slim. Monarchies don’t allow foreigners inherit their dynasty like that unless they are overthrown by force. Rulers number 49, 52 and 53 who come after Nur ibn Mujahid are all Karanle. The last one would establish Aussa Imamate. His sons and grandsons and close relatives would rule Aussa till the Ciise Garaad took over only for him to get overthrown shorty afterwards by the Mudaito Afar marking an end to the Imamate at 1647.

[Bad Link]
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 7:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Are Baad and Balaw the same person then? I know there is Ciye Baad as well as Shurbul Baad. Funny names tbh they all seem Oromised, but then again you can say that for any clan that was alive in the area at that time. This is my first time of hearing Karanle day lool. Who is majority in Baabile btw, is it Karanle or Jidle? I’ve heard some people say Xaskul too since you can find all three there. I wonder if you can find Raarane though.

I used Baalaw instead of Baad. These two names are interchangeable because Baal = Wing of a bird and Baad = wing of a bird. I used the one in Futuh. So Baalaw means the one with the wing of a bird or flies like a wing or feather.

I think the first Garad Mohamed is not correct. It should Garad Ibrahim - Garad Omar- Garad Mohamed - Garad Ali Gasasle - Garad Mahiiqe - etc These names are archaic Somali. Oromo are new comers to the region, way after Ciye and Shurbul kkk. Ciye and shurbal or shurbe are brothers. Shurbe is the smaller laf and go by that name exclusively.

Babili is one of the more older Hawiye towns. Karanle is majority by far followed by Gugundhabe but you will find all 6 Hawiye there like Xaskul as you mentioned as well as Raarane and Sheekhaal among others. In fact a Sheekhaal is head of the military around Harar region. We are waiting for Ethiopia to slip up with another civil war like so we can take back Harar while this Sheekhaal brother is still in charge of the military in the region kkk. Dhuubane Fiqi (Saxawle Karanle) live in Ufurow (Bay region) with the Hubeer, but there is a family called Reer Aw Aadan Mahad who are from Qansaxdheere among the Garwaale they are Raarane Hawiye
Malawax 7/30/2023 9:21:00 PM

I am still waiting for a match. Hawiye people don’t like doing these types of tests and the price makes it more difficult to convince them.

Do you know if the distant STR matches means anything? My results show I am closer to the Osmaan Mohamud and Omar Mohamud brothers than I am to anyone else.
Abokor 7/30/2023 11:39:00 PM

Originally Posted by drobbah

No the person from Toghdheer didn't share their info.They could be Habar Jeclo,Habar Yoonis or Dhulbahante as these 3 clans make up the majority of that province

Toogdheer region is multi tribal gobol many others tribes lives there like geri koombe or kaskiqabe & awrtable and Hinjiye and sub tribes of gaaljecel and surre and you can find some sub tribes live with dhulbahante are decendant from somali galbeed region you can find abaaskuul and bartire & cabdi kuumade (xaaji galimays) & jiiraan koombe brother of harti koombe and many tribes claim gabooye confederation like wardheere (Awrtable) and Hawle qaasim (majeeerteen)
Bulletproofpride 7/30/2023 11:47:00 PM

@SDPP @Farjanomar and everyone else who

Do we have ajuuraan Big Y samples?
s1abx 7/30/2023 11:58:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@S1bax

13 confirmed Karanle rulers on this list. They are rulers number 30, 34, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 42, 44, 47, 49, 52 and 53. Those are rulers of Harar partly under Adal at times and partly an independent emirate. Since 1471, Gragns awoowe and his relative Mahfuz were two lineages among Karanle who took power in Adal.

Nur ibn Mujahid comes twice on this list. The likelihood of him being from another clan is very slim. Monarchies don’t allow foreigners inherit their dynasty like that unless they are overthrown by force. Rulers number 49, 52 and 53 who come after Nur ibn Mujahid are all Karanle. The last one would establish Aussa Imamate. His sons and grandsons and close relatives would rule Aussa till the Ciise Garaad took over only for him to get overthrown shorty afterwards by the Mudaito Afar marking an end to the Imamate at 1647.

[Bad Link]

Wow Mashallah ileen Karanle waa boqortooyo. At the same time Gorgarte had southern Somalia on hold, if only the lands connected there could have been a Hawiye empire.
s1abx 7/31/2023 12:02:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

I used Baalaw instead of Baad. These two names are interchangeable because Baal = Wing of a bird and Baad = wing of a bird. I used the one in Futuh. So Baalaw means the one with the wing of a bird or flies like a wing or feather.

I think the first Garad Mohamed is not correct. It should Garad Ibrahim - Garad Omar- Garad Mohamed - Garad Ali Gasasle - Garad Mahiiqe - etc These names are archaic Somali. Oromo are new comers to the region, way after Ciye and Shurbul kkk. Ciye and shurbal or shurbe are brothers. Shurbe is the smaller laf and go by that name exclusively.

Babili is one of the more older Hawiye towns. Karanle is majority by far followed by Gugundhabe but you will find all 6 Hawiye there like Xaskul as you mentioned as well as Raarane and Sheekhaal among others. In fact a Sheekhaal is head of the military around Harar region. We are waiting for Ethiopia to slip up with another civil war like so we can take back Harar while this Sheekhaal brother is still in charge of the military in the region kkk. Dhuubane Fiqi (Saxawle Karanle) live in Ufurow (Bay region) with the Hubeer, but there is a family called Reer Aw Aadan Mahad who are from Qansaxdheere among the Garwaale they are Raarane Hawiye

Do these families know their origin as I’m confused, if they do why don’t they claim their clans? I have heard of Xaskul Hawiye being under some Harti Abgaal but I will have to investigate those claims further, it doesn’t really matter as long as they are Hawiye. There is also a sub-clan of Yabardige Xawaadle called Owsan that are apparently Xaskul Hawiye in origin, not that big sub-clan but they are brothers with some of the big ones like Adan Warsame.
s1abx 7/31/2023 12:03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

@SDPP @Farjanomar and everyone else who

Do we have ajuuraan Big Y samples?

There was one who matched with other Oromos. Possibly an assimilate Oromo since some of them in Kenya specifically Isiolo areas live with Borana and they speak Borana.
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 12:06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I am still waiting for a match. Hawiye people don’t like doing these types of tests and the price makes it more difficult to convince them.

Do you know if the distant STR matches means anything? My results show I am closer to the Osmaan Mohamud and Omar Mohamud brothers than I am to anyone else.

Start testing them one by one. I funded the foolculus. Now I am going to test other Karanle. After that other Hawiye. One by one. This guy called libaax joore tested like 8 Majerteen and 1 Ogaden.
drobbah 7/31/2023 12:42:00 AM

Originally Posted by Abokor

Toogdheer region is multi tribal gobol many others tribes lives there like geri koombe or kaskiqabe & awrtable and Hinjiye and sub tribes of gaaljecel and surre and you can find some sub tribes live with dhulbahante are decendant from somali galbeed region you can find abaaskuul and bartire & cabdi kuumade (xaaji galimays) & jiiraan koombe brother of harti koombe and many tribes claim gabooye confederation like wardheere (Awrtable) and Hawle qaasim (majeeerteen)

Ciise Muuse live there too but those three I mentioned make up 90% of the population
Malawax 7/31/2023 12:48:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Start testing them one by one. I funded the foolculus. Now I am going to test other Karanle. After that other Hawiye. One by one. This guy called libaax joore tested like 8 Majerteen and 1 Ogaden.

I am willing to help with the cost, the biggest hurdle is getting them to agree to do the test. Most of them are uninterested and some of them think it is a waste of money because they already know what the results will be, and there was one who showed me a post from you brother @Bulletproorpride that is telling people “It will be useless to test Hiraab” because “Hiraab lineage is scientifically confirmed”.

I know you want more people to do these tests, but why are you discouraging Hiraab from doing them? If I had followed your advice, I wouldn’t have done the test and we wouldn’t have had an interesting new result. Please try to find a way to express your opinions without discouraging people.
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 12:54:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

Do these families know their origin as I’m confused, if they do why don’t they claim their clans? I have heard of Xaskul Hawiye being under some Harti Abgaal but I will have to investigate those claims further, it doesn’t really matter as long as they are Hawiye. There is also a sub-clan of Yabardige Xawaadle called Owsan that are apparently Xaskul Hawiye in origin, not that big sub-clan but they are brothers with some of the big ones like Adan Warsame.

They go by their clan and are aware of their origins . Even the Hawiye living in Awash valley, Bale and Sidame haven’t forgotten their roots despite some of them being stationed there for 600+ years and having completely lost the Somali language.

Even Dahir alesow knows the various sub tribes in Somalia and where they live kkkkk. He mentions the various settlements in Jubaland and SW state you can find them but mixes up some of the Raarane with Sixawle. Their numbers are large because they are farmers. Historians like IMLewis believe those clans like Raarane have been in the dooy before the Raxanwayn arrived and were overwelmed or assimilated. Karanle can be found in Luuq district moving Gedo, Bay and Dollobay, they migrated there later on from Afdheer region, they had small number of Sixawle in the census there. Raxanwayn originally lived in Afdheer and left before us. Xaskul lives in shabelle and have mp’s and representations of their own.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJb2WnUy/
Sea 7/31/2023 1:04:00 AM

Any Xawaadle test? What haplogroup are they? Also any yibir on the yfull?

Also @bulletproofpride when do you plan to test the J karanle!! Would like to see where they land and also have you seen any harari results? on the Yfull
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 1:28:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

I am willing to help with the cost, the biggest hurdle is getting them to agree to do the test. Most of them are uninterested and some of them think it is a waste of money because they already know what the results will be, and there was one who showed me a post from you brother @Bulletproorpride that is telling people “It will be useless to test Hiraab” because “Hiraab lineage is scientifically confirmed”.

I know you want more people to do these tests, but why are you discouraging Hiraab from doing them? If I had followed your advice, I wouldn’t have done the test and we wouldn’t have had an interesting new result. Please try to find a way to express your opinions without discouraging people.

Kkkkk I can’t believe my posts are mainstream like that kkkk. Can you show me the post where I said that? I think it’s being used out of context.

You should have said many hiiraab members turned out different with some having J1 and one even had B. Anyways I sincerely apologise. Keep trying and let them know you will fund it yourself.
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 1:40:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sea

Any Xawaadle test? What haplogroup are they? Also any yibir on the yfull?

Also @bulletproofpride when do you plan to test the J karanle!! Would like to see where they land and also have you seen any harari results? on the Yfull

I have seen no Harari on Yfull yet personally. Hararis are an amalgamation of different groups of people that lived in Harar. They will all have different paternal lineages. Even the Somalis from that area around Hararghe got J1, E-M81, L, A, E-V6 etc.

I personally have seen only one Karanle DNA result that was not Murusade and she was my cousin who is on this forum. She tested her brother and he ended up getting J1. When I asked her if she matched other Karanle she replied saying she on only matches with Murusade. One of whom is my father’s brother kkkk. This is normal because her mother is my close relative. But I wonder why she didn’t match other Karanle? Maybe they are undersampled? Not enough of them testing?

Anyways I am on a mission to test at least 3-4 different Karanle with big Y. They will definitely get different lineages but I want to know which lineage is the common denominator amongst us.
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 1:56:00 AM

@S1bax

Just confirmed with my relatives. Yeah you are right, Xaskul live in Mudug coast with Abgaal and in Hiiraan/Lower Shabelle/Xamar. It seems they followed their Karanle brothers footsteps in migrating from Harar to Berbera to Nugaal to South Somalia
Malawax 7/31/2023 1:59:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

Kkkkk I can’t believe my posts are mainstream like that kkkk. Can you show me the post where I said that? I think it’s being used out of context.

You should have said many hiiraab members turned out different with some having J1 and one even had B. Anyways I sincerely apologise. Keep trying and let them know you will fund it yourself.

Thanks for starting the Big Y discussion on Somaliwave, I am not familiar with that site but getting the word out on any Somali site has the potential to generate more Somali tests.

https://somaliwave.com/index.php?threads/big-y-dna-test-needed-from-certain-clans.40988/
Malawax 7/31/2023 2:21:00 AM

FYI: New Posts and PMs will be disabled starting Tuesday.

Thank you to all the contributors, I have learned a lot from you. Here is the link to the archived discussions https://somaliy.com/ I will add any new posts and try to keep it there for the foreseeable future.

Again, thank you all.

Tuesday 25 July 2023 16:30 UTC - Public announcement

Tuesday 01 August 2023 08:00 UTC - New posts and PMs by members permanently disabled

Tuesday 08 August 2023 08:00 UTC - First public reminder of forum closure date

Thursday 10 August 2023 16:00 UTC - Initiation and completion of member reimbursements

Tuesday 15th August 2023 08:00 UTC - Member login disabling

Thursday 17th August 2023 16:00 UTC - Site closure
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 2:35:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Thanks for starting the Big Y discussion on Somaliwave, I am not familiar with that site but getting the word out on any Somali site has the potential to generate more Somali tests.

https://somaliwave.com/index.php?threads/big-y-dna-test-needed-from-certain-clans.40988/

My thread on Somalispot already has close to 200 pages. That thread is the reason why many people took big Y test. Too bad it’s on the private sub forums. If it was public it would attract more people’s attention.
s1abx 7/31/2023 3:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

My thread on Somalispot already has close to 200 pages. That thread is the reason why many people took big Y test. Too bad it’s on the private sub forums. If it was public it would attract more people’s attention.

You can ask the admins to put it under culture & history. There are a lot of DNA threads there.
SDPP 7/31/2023 3:53:00 AM

Originally Posted by Malawax

Thanks for starting the Big Y discussion on Somaliwave, I am not familiar with that site but getting the word out on any Somali site has the potential to generate more Somali tests.

https://somaliwave.com/index.php?threads/big-y-dna-test-needed-from-certain-clans.40988/

Let’s all try to get on the above Somaliwave thread @bulletproof started on Big Y. I was banned from sspot for “spam” and “false information” a while ago lol. I won’t be able to join any sspot thread. There is a reason they like to keep things in private forums. They don’t like the findings to be public at all because it goes against what they stand for and believe.
Garaacad 7/31/2023 4:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Sea

Hi, I can help with that! Not just a forum for only Dna, but for all related topics!

What are names you guys thinking of and how will this be funded, there is a way to do it and costs 60 dollar a month, the first month will need to be funded and the others month can be covered by ads!!

Could you let me know if you've made any progress on making another forum?
Malawax 7/31/2023 5:38:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

My thread on Somalispot already has close to 200 pages. That thread is the reason why many people took big Y test. Too bad it’s on the private sub forums. If it was public it would attract more people’s attention.

I just joined Somaliwave, hopefully it will be fruitful.
Saeed 7/31/2023 6:33:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

You can ask the admins to put it under culture & history. There are a lot of DNA threads there.

It was originally under culture and history, they're the ones that moved it to a private section for some reason.
AFG47 7/31/2023 6:49:00 AM

Quick question my harari ethnic friend is E-L29 so, where on yfull is that on?
Bulletproofpride 7/31/2023 7:05:00 AM

Originally Posted by AFG47

Quick question my harari ethnic friend is E-L29 so, where on yfull is that on?

You have his results?

He would be here

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M84/
AFG47 7/31/2023 7:11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bulletproofpride

You have his results?

He would be here

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-M84/

23andme result. Will find out more.
s1abx 8/1/2023 4:33:00 AM

One of the members of this site has created a somewhat similar replica of this site and all of the users on the other subs have joined. The layout is similar. I have taken the liberty to create a existing continuation of this thread until a new forum is created. Feel free to join it.

[Bad Link]

Site link:

[Bad Link]
Malawax 8/1/2023 8:32:00 AM

Originally Posted by s1abx

One of the members of this site has created a somewhat similar replica of this site and all of the users on the other subs have joined. The layout is similar. I have taken the liberty to create a existing continuation of this thread until a new forum is created. Feel free to join it.

[Bad Link]

Site link:

[Bad Link]

Thanks, I will give it a shot.